Family issue

>>17775839
Apologize for the retards you call friends. Also make sure you distance yourself from them. Job done.

>>17775848
Not going to happen. They were supporting the hell out of me and they didn't really say that so that I REALLY beat her shit up - it's more of a disapproval thing we have around, and even say it all the time ("oh this guy is being a total dumbass? fucking beat his shit up").

I have literally zero issues with my friends and I'm not leaving them.

You should give them (your friends) a bionic kick. Yeah, beat their shit up.

>>17775839
It's true. The current generation of men are fucking pussies who can't even stand up to their so called mates. Blame the parents though. Should popped yah square in the jaw. Cunt.

>>17775853
For one, you can just SAY that you're going distance yourself from them. Next time you're talking, make sure you don't yell and it's all good.

That said, they sound like complete faggots and you sound even more faggy by bitching about your sister to them and discuss things in a such fucking faggy way.

>>17775865
>For one, you can just SAY that you're going distance yourself from them.
Difficult because my actions will be the total opposite to that.

>Next time you're talking, make sure you don't yell and it's all good.
Even if I whisper my conversations can be heard. And I was wearing headphones.

>That said, they sound like complete faggots and you sound even more faggy by bitching about your sister to them and discuss things in a such fucking faggy way.
For one they're close friends and I was going through some issues.

Now as for the situation itself, so that you can understand the context. I've been going to therapy, and my therapist is teaching me how to set limits with other people because this is undermining my sense of self. And as such the place where I had to practice that first was in my home, by setting limits to them because my family constantly break them.

So one day I was requested to bring up a box that belongs to one of my sisters - all of them grown up, none of them disabled in any form, and the box wasn't too heavy anyways. So I asked "isn't it better that my sister did it?" and the other one came to me, yelling at me that I should just do things and obey and say yes, the same thing that had kept me as a servant in my home.

So I just told this to my friends and well, those were their comments. Add to this that some other things fired up my anxiety and well, it's obvious that they were worried as fuck.

But apparently nobody gives a single shit.

>>17775875
>Difficult because my actions will be the total opposite to that.
Then roll with "We were joking around, also it's part of my therapy. Sorry if the joke went too far, I didn't meant to."

As for the box story, your family acted shitty there but you know, the whole deal about two wrongs and eye for eye; so your reaction was still shitty.

>>17775897
Wait something's not right here. Are you assuming I did insult my sister? Because I damn sure didn't. I just allowed my friend to say it and for it to go unpunished, but I didn't actively do anything wrong.

>>17775903
Your behavior caused their behavior, so you did play a huge part, not too different from directly insulting her.

Besides, it's not like you don't have the right to, just with that obviously comes a reaction. And so on.

>>17775937
I understand about making myself responsible for what I did. But I cannot control my friend's responses or reactions, the most that I could've done is to just stop them in their tracks and be done with it.

Yes I did mention this situation to them, but I cannot see how that was any wrong. I was in dire need of emotional support, which was unavailable in my family, and I had nobody else to turn to.

In short, how could I apologize for a behavior that wasn't mine? I cannot even say that I'm going to take distance from my friends because they were there whenever I needed them. At most I could apologize for not taking action and for a nice "this won't happen again" and be done with it and I'm damn sure that it will probably not fix everything. But I'm not distancing myself from them or apologizing in their behalf, as I cannot make myself responsible for what they say or do.

>>17775951
> I did mention this situation to them
While also having a decent basis to foresee their reaction. Kinda like telling your misogynistic buddy how your girlfriend takes too long in the bathroom, it's not surprising that he'd say something like "typical cunt".

>but I cannot see how that was any wrong
Wrong doesn't matter in this context. Your reasons and motivations are absolutely irrelevant for her reaction. Obviously her reaction can also be absolutely irrelevant for you ... you live in a quite a shitty family if small shit like that even matters but again, all irrelevant for the topic and all that's left is you being partly responsible for other people saying things she didn't like.

>In short, how could I apologize for a behavior that wasn't mine?
Because practicality. You're not writing a fucking philosophy exam or have to defend yourself in court. Besides, you did play a part in it. If you didn't mention her to her in that specific way, it wouldn't cause them to comment that way and yidda yadda. Practically it doesn't matter too much.

> At most I could apologize for not taking action and for a nice "this won't happen again" and be done with it and I'm damn sure that it will probably not fix everything.
Sounds like a way too. What do you even mean with "fix everything"?

The issues are obviously far beyond the situation. I don't even have a close relationship with my sister but we're both perfectly cool making joke death threats to each other or my female friends making rape jokes about her, because communication and shit. If your entire family has such a bitchfest about comments from couple online people like that, it's not something you'll fix in the short term. Also how old is your sis? Crying over that and all?

>>17776004
>While also having a decent basis to foresee their reaction.
Uh, call me dumb and everything but no, I didn't foresee their reaction.

>her reaction
Oh, whose? My mom's? Or my sister telling my mom?

>you live in a quite a shitty family if small shit like that even matters
Hence why I'm getting counseling.

>Also how old is your sis? Crying over that and all?
I think I should answer this before going over the rest. She's 24, younger than me, and no I don't see her crying over it. What's worse is that she 1) peeked on my conversation and 2) didn't say a word to me, instead telling my mother, who in turn threw a huge display at me and even insulted me afterwards ("motherfucking faggot" were her exact words).

>all that's left is you being partly responsible for other people saying things she didn't like
>If you didn't mention her to her in that specific way, it wouldn't cause them to comment that way and yidda yadda. Practically it doesn't matter too much.
And now the question is whether it's worth actually apologizing. Or, are you suggesting that I should do it only to make peace return and such?

My counselor also just told me

>Well, this situation is over already. All of us make mistakes, and they've done a lot of them and haven't apologized to you yet. If they want apologies, they should be the ones starting.

>>17776017
> I didn't foresee their reaction.
Honestly, sounds hard to believe. You know them for a while, talked about your sis with them before more likely than not, know how they respond when disapproving something, etc, etc

>Oh, whose? My mom's? Or my sister telling my mom?
All of them. Besides, that's another chain of events that you should be able to foresee knowing them all. Which doesn't mean you're to blame for it, just part of the cause (important differentiation)

>She's 24
If she still cares about that kind of shit, she should visit a counselor herself. Also 1) isn't necessary, perhaps you was loud enough and it's given that she'll be interested if the topic was her. 2) kinda given from the sound of your relationship with her. Your mom sounds like the "worst party" in all of this.

>are you suggesting that I should do it only to make peace return and such?
Pretty much. Obviously you can also stand your ground and tell them to stop bitching about jokes but this would definitely cause more stress and conflict. If you think it's worth it, why not.

>Well, this situation is over already. All of us make mistakes, and they've done a lot of them and haven't apologized to you yet.
This all makes sense.

>If they want apologies, they should be the ones starting.
This sounds pretty immature.

>>17776039
>Honestly, sounds hard to believe.
I know. But I just didn't think about the consequences of this. My intentions were to get my distress out of my head and get some support, I wasn't really expecting this.

>Which doesn't mean you're to blame for it, just part of the cause (important differentiation)
Isn't this more than enough to remove the need for apologies? Me being part of the cause doesn't mean that I'm to blame for this.

>If she still cares about that kind of shit, she should visit a counselor herself.
If she was more self aware and had a better capability to self criticize then yes, I'd outright tell her.

>isn't necessary, perhaps you was loud enough and it's given that she'll be interested if the topic was her
Again, odd because I was using headphones. Really odd.

>kinda given from the sound of your relationship with her. Your mom sounds like the "worst party" in all of this.
When you have a controlling mother with zero sense of boundaries with her children, then yeah.

>Pretty much.
I'll take it into consideration for purely practical purposes, but it doesn't really sound right at all. It even feels like I'm doing things out of obligation rather than seriously feeling it, and it kinda makes the apologies a lie.

>This sounds pretty immature.
It's odd to call immature to a counselor. There's probably a good reason why she said that, probably because she wants me to stand firmer on my ground? My family steps all over my boundaries and have zero respect for me, so there's that. I'm the oldest child, but the one who's at the lowest point in the hierarchy.

>>17776077
>Me being part of the cause doesn't mean that I'm to blame for this.
Yes but you were still part of the cause, so it's not something totally unrelated to you like somebody breaking in and raping her.
Sometimes we apology for causing an inconvenience even if we're not to blame, say coming too late because somebody jumped in-front of your car.

>Again, odd because I was using headphones. Really odd.
Doesn't matter too much, most walls and doors are pretty shit at noise isolation, sometimes we talk more loud than we think, noises appear different when we're tired, etc, etc, etc. I wouldn't even be that surprised if she actually did peek given the rest but where does this lead us to? Your sis having issues wouldn't be news. Besides, in the end she's just as much as a victim from the parenting as you, just in a different way.

>It even feels like I'm doing things out of obligation rather than seriously feeling it, and it kinda makes the apologies a lie.
Many social interactions are like this. We just have to calculate whether being 100% in the right is worth it or not.

>because she wants me to stand firmer on my ground?
Which is right but something like "they have to apologize first" isn't as much staying your own ground as being childishly stubborn.

>My family steps all over my boundaries and have zero respect for me, so there's that.
Calling them out and standing your ground when they are completely in the wrong is the right cause but one shouldn't be needlessly childish about it. Besides you're old enough to give them the finger and move out. Changing their behavior will take years at this point and usually needs some position of power, or at very least independence.

>I'm the oldest child, but the one who's at the lowest point in the hierarchy.
Not like age should be the deciding factor for that.

>>17775839
>Sister did some stuff and I had to set proper limits as part of a therapy process
What did she do OP? Tie you up and make you undergo forced milking for days on end? Did she steal your precious seed?

>>17776125
>Sometimes we apology for causing an inconvenience even if we're not to blame, say coming too late because somebody jumped in-front of your car.
I think I can think of something.

>Doesn't matter too much, most walls and doors are pretty shit at noise isolation, sometimes we talk more loud than we think, noises appear different when we're tired, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah seems to be the cause. I still think it's odd because headphones shouldn't be heard that easily but eh.

>Many social interactions are like this. We just have to calculate whether being 100% in the right is worth it or not.
I'm on it.

>Which is right but something like "they have to apologize first" isn't as much staying your own ground as being childishly stubborn.
I don't know, I won't do a thing until she says if that's what I should be doing (I asked her for confirmation).

>Besides you're old enough to give them the finger and move out. Changing their behavior will take years at this point and usually needs some position of power, or at very least independence.
Trust me, never before I've been wanting to leave my house like I do now. I just lack the resources for some few reasons, but once I'm done doing what I must, then I'll damn sure leave.

>Not like age should be the deciding factor for that.
No but I'm the one who takes the most responsibilities in the house, I'm even called the "housekeeper" and I have zero benefits from it. Not even power to decide shit.

>>17776147
This >>17775875

OP here, I think I just realized something very important. This is more like my own conclusions of everything, rather than asking for more advice. Also I'm dumping my thoughts here so sorry for the blog post.

I finally understand why my therapist willingly put me through a potentially conflictive situation. There's quite a bit that I didn't say here about how everything went down, but the fact that she told me to not apologize and to make me do things that would actually cause a bit of conflict was so that I could understand a greater truth. I hope somebody else gets some insight from this.

THERE IS LITERALLY NO NEED TO GET NOBODY'S ACCEPTANCE, NOT EVEN YOUR FAMILY'S

This is very important. I shouldn't apologize to my family because 1) Living with unresolved conflict is okay, there can be peace even with it; 2) I shouldn't be needing their approval for what happened, and if I apologized I will be literally asking for their approval to get some sort of worthless peace that will exist nonetheless, and if somebody else in my family has issues, well, that's on them not me; and 3) I should also seek for them to have my approval, not the other way around. That way I will build a better sense of self and to be more confident in life.

I will talk all of this over with my therapist, but I feel like I've discovered something big and important.

Thank you everyone.

>>17776913
Just got to this thread and read 3 of your posts and can aIready teII you are a huge pain in the ass to deaI with as a person and stick around equaIIy shitty peopIe.

At Ieast you came to the concIusion you need heIp and are a bit fucked in the head, otherwise this wouId have been a pointIess thread. WeII, it was pointIess, but even more pointIess than it was.

>>17775839
Tell them it was locker room talk and grab your mom, sister and dad by the pussy.

>>17776930
Well, if this offended you so much I think that you should be able to elaborate on what offended you instead of spewing shit everywhere in an equally pointless manner.

>>17776931
>dad by the pussy
kek

>>17776913
Decent conclusion.

>>17776931
Hello there, Mr President.

>>17776956
Thank you! In the end, confidence issues (yes, the same which cripple people in other areas such as romance) are unresolved personal issues where your parents and your family failed to meet your needs to grow properly, and as such you end up somehow "failed" because there is something important that they should've taught you, but they didn't. And I am only now starting to realize what all of this even means, and somehow it feels just right in my heart.

>>17776931
>Tell them it was locker room talk
This actually, honestly. Tell them they should worry less about what your friends are saying and more about how they're eavesdropping on your private conversations. Your therapist told you to set limits, make your family understand that disrespecting your privacy like that is completely unacceptable.

>>17776930
Jesus Christ, fuck off you faggot.

>>17777000
Whoa that went over my head.

Sure thing mr. quad trips of truth and good luck. I've been making sure that they understand eavesdropping is unacceptable.

I also concluded >>17776913 so that's gonna help me a good damn deal.

Thank you very much!

>>17775848
>>17775854
>>17775858
>>17775865

Is this a fucking joke? It sounds like his sister was a huge cunt so he was venting to his friends in the way that literally everyone does. Go fuck yourselves if you see a problem in this.

OP, I imagine you've already been considering this, but it seems like the most helpful thing for you would be to start laying down the groundwork towards moving out. Your home sounds incredibly toxic.

What happened with your family that led up to this situation? Why do they your sisters treat you like a servant and get away with it?

>>17778340
>the most helpful thing for you would be to start laying down the groundwork towards moving out. Your home sounds incredibly toxic.
I'm going to start to work towards that. My family has zero deal of respect towards me. Sure, there is affection, but no respect.

>What happened with your family that led up to this situation?
Controlling mom since always, who in turn had controlling parents.

>Why do they your sisters treat you like a servant and get away with it?
I was taught to deal with it like that. Only now I'm learning to do otherwise.

What's also interesting is that, during breakfast, my family was telling me that "family comes first".