Hey Advice, Not sure If I should place this on /pol/ but I need

>>17755497
If there really is a conspiracy to destroy America from the inside out, they couldn't be doing a better fucking job. I want to say that your grandma is going to calm down and get over it once the shock wears off, but I just don't know. I've been seeing this shit happening all around me. I feel like I've been watching most of my friends go completely insane over the last 2 years.

>>17755503
The last 48 hours has been friends blocking me left right and center , and when asks it because even though I am generally respectful and about acceptance they just can't deal that I am "involved" with trump supporters.
One pointed out that I was just rolling with the pigs and inviting them in.

update: Nana has told me that she will not talk to me until the offending post is removed, The post in question.

"Trumps a symptom of the problem. The problem is bigger than one man."

Unsure what to do?

>>17755546
Remove the post then talk to your Nana. Tell her you love her but you believe she shouldn't ostracize you for trying to be objective. Tell her she means a lot to you and her behavior hurt you.

>>17755534
I'm not even a Trump supporter, I voted for Hillary, and I had a friend lose her shit on me because I wasn't "upset enough." All kinds of crazy shit like I was a "secret Trump fan" because I'm a white male.

I feel like I have no respect left for either side, for anyone that gets THIS brainwashed by either political party. I used to consider myself left-wing because I thought they were actually about open-mindedness, but when the chips are down, they're exactly the same type of irrational, tribalistic bigots as the people they claim to be fighting.

>>17755546
>>17755552
Don't remove the post. "Nana" is being stupid.

>>17755566
you're not alone, but you need to stand up for yourself

tell them that anyone who couldn't beat Donald Trump had no business running for president

>>17755566
Same thing happened to me, although I straight up didn't vote and will not apologize for refusing to choose between monsters. My response has been pretty consistent: look, if you're not armed, if you're not out in the streets rioting, if you're just pissed that the wrong neoliberal piece of shit won, I don't want to hear it. A racist won the election? You know where you fucking live, this shouldn't be a surprise. I'll listen to your whining when you buy a gun, get involved, and start actually showing you give a shit about the defense of your own community beyond getting an "I voted!" sticker like a fucking child.

>>17755571
He's right. She's not arguing objectively, she's just assblasted that her candidate lost. It's not nice to talk shit about old people, but as long as she's blocking her grandchild because she's mad she lost she can go fuck herself.

Also props to you for seeing that Trump is a symptom and not the problem.

>>17755593
Eh. He's definitely more than just a passive "symptom." He's an opportunist. He didn't start the fire, but he poured a shitload of gasoline on it

>>17755592
I don't really blame you. There wasn't even a good third-party candidate this year. I wouldn't agree that rioting in the streets is gonna help anything, though. All that does is galvanize the "law-and-order" crowd. Sure, arm yourself and prepare to DEFEND yourself, but don't go around wrecking property because "this is how I express my feelings"

>>17755552
I will consider it. I need to wrap my head around her being insulted by that though.
>>17755566
I am with you. I am down to a very few close friends and almost all of them are republican. It's worse because as a female I am all but being written off as a gender traitor, and as half cherokee...
ugh

>>17755571
How do I make her feel better then? I hate to see her like this because I know she is hurting.


>>17755592
I am politically active which she finds unlady like. She respects my views, even conceding that i had the right she supposed to "vote for trump" but if I tell her like it is I am cruel or I don't care about people. Again for me it's about respect but I suppose being told the president elect isn't a problem when all she eats is liberal media would be insulting.

>>17755593
I have always said that. Trump is a reaction to a long and stupid history of idiocy on both sides of the aisle, and while I would prefer he weren't elected I think the first thing we need to do sit up, study our actions in detail, own our faults, cultivate our strengths and figure out this issue before it gets worse. It's a problem on both sides.

>>17755605
Oh let me clarify, trump knows what's going on, so he's actively made it worse. So did the hillary campaign with their demonization of anyone who wasn't all 100% hillary.

But see the problem of division isn't the same as people who make it worse. His election is the symptom of our division. Our us vs. them mentality.

Regardless she continues to ignore me. I am hovering over the delete button but...

>>17755616
Here here. Acting like a child rarely does anything but leave you in a corner.

>>17755605
Someone is always pouring gas on it. The difference between Trump and even the Democrats in 2008 isn't one of substance or general policy, its one of delivery. Hillary supported a border fence with wall portions in 2008, Obama has already deported more immigrants than any president in History, Bush II banned immigration (including asylum and refugee claims) from Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama hasn't changed the extremely restrictive system for immigration from high terrorism countries, Bill Clinton helped secure his victory in '92 by personally flying out to observe the execution of a mentally retarded black man in Arkansas.

All the shit people are worked up about with trump was mainstream less than a decade ago. The racism and dog whistles have been standard plays since the civil war ended. All Trump did was hold rallies instead of staff call centers and say it out loud instead of implying it. Yeah, now some racists will be emboldened (which wouldn't be a goddamn problem if the left hadn't lost it's balls), but he's not an existential threat.

What Trump mainly represents is a reminder that the world isn't Tumblr and you can't shame your way into progress, you gotta bleed for it.

>>17755616
The shit kids today do isn't rioting, its what we used to call protesting. I was at the protests in Chicago on Wednesday, running barricades and carrying not quite openly. I don't think we should be breaking the windows of random Starbucks, thats not remotely what I'm suggesting. I'm saying that cops trying to break up protests ought to catch bullets. I'm saying that when they attempt to arrest people they need to be pushed back, the arrestees released, and paddy wagons need to burn. I'm saying that there is literally nothing wrong with destroying government property and killing the armed agents of the state in even proactive self defense. I'm saying that politicians who have committed especially egregious offenses should be worried about their offices and homes burning, about rooftop voting. Fuck nonviolence. If you're not ready to riot you need to write a check, staff a call center, and go back to the democratic process. This middle ground shit does no one any good.

>>17755617
>She respects my views
No, she doesn't. She doesn't even respect you.

>>17755643
I am not denying that might be true, but that hurts to contemplate.

>>17755656
You can't deny it. She's manipulating you emotionally and acting like an angry teenager over an election. She's stunted. Sure, it hurts, but it is what it is. Give her a month and she'll either move on to something new to be outraged about or your life will be better without nana.

Can you imagine what she would be like at your wedding?

>>17755660
I have contemplated eloping multiple times. You're right but I still love and respect her.

I guess I just wait it out.

>>17755643
But does your protest actually have a clear GOAL other than "rah rah fuck the whole government?" Like, what concessions could "they" make to satisfy you, in a perfect world?

I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious what you think. Because from my view, all the protesting of the last 2 years or so lost momentum when it lost focus. For example, Black Lives Matter started out with CLEAR, achievable, urgent goals. And then it just splintered off into a thousand little fringe causes, many contradictory, all shouting just as loud as the others, and the rest of the nation just threw up our hands and said "we don't even know what to do here." Including a lot of people who genuinely wanted to help, but didn't know how anymore.

>>17755497
>loves a man
>still votes against trump

man women sure are dumb sometimes
how does it feel to have cancelled out his vote?

>>17755674
Uh, pretty good? See my man respects I have an opinion and encourages me to have my own independent thoughts about candidates.
and the after arguments fucks are amazing.

>>17755667
What goal did the Bundy protesters have? BLM is still charging ridiculous fees, their stated desire of having the federal government return federal lands to that states or counties is never going to happen. Still, you have to wonder what effect a very high profile jury nullification is going to have on future protests, on future attempts at enforcement...

For me, the end of nonviolent protest would be enough. King and the Boomer generation fucked this country up. We didn't get a 40 hour work week by singing "We Shall Overcome" and letting the dogs bite us, but somehow we became convinced that submission was the only valid form of protest.

What I want is for people to get angry enough for violence to stop being taboo. From there, other things will flow. Black lives matter is an excellent example, if you want cops to stop killing unarmed black people the best way to achieve that goal would be to make it very dangerous to kill unarmed black people. If you want to stop the federal government from deporting undocumented immigrants, go and attack a private jail, kill a CEO, or set fire to a few ICE vehicles.

We live in a country where we can get undocumentable guns for almost nothing and buy tannerite without ID. C'mon, people.

>>17755497
Sounds like your family is shit tbqhwytf. Ironically, it is you who should abandon them. They are the ones unworthy of love.

>>17755685
But what if they are right? What if no one loves me?

>>17755680
What you're describing is terrorism, and on a large enough scale, the result would be martial law. And then, civil war. You're a fucking idiot.

We are in a constant "cold war" with our own government. We are heavily armed, and so are they. Mutually assured destruction is real. If you had your way, at the end of it, there wouldn't be much left of America to "give you" better wages, or stop immigrants from coming in, or whatever the hell you actually care about.

The best way to stop cops from killing unarmed black people (or committing other crimes) would be to establish separate federal courts for the prosecution of law enforcement officers, to prevent the croneyism that naturally occurs when they're tried locally. Not rocket science, right? The message just gets lost when you go past "protesting" and start just indulging your own anger instead

>>17755694
Was it terrorism when the Irish fought for their independence? Was it terrorism when unions shut down factories and fought, violently, with the Pinkertons? Terrorism is a fashionable word, but its not terribly instructive.

Look, the reality is that we won't have martial law or a cold war. What we'll have is what we always have: eventually the government backs down.

Don't believe me? Look at the militias. In the '90s, right after Clinton was elected, the ATF made it a priority to reign in the extreme fringes of the pro-gun community. An assault weapon ban was passed. They started going after kitchen table FFLs, they went after guys doing conversions out in the middle of nowhere, they slowed down tax stamp processing, they stepped up enforcement on SBR/SBS, and they started reducing military surplus sales to the public. The core target of this increase in enforcement was what was being called "the militia movement," a bunch of crazy people in the woods or desert who hung out talking about Jesus, black helicopters, and dreams of civil war. In the early 90s, there were a number of shoot outs, the militias were all girding themselves for their glorious revolution, then Randy Weaver's family got killed in a botched entrapment scheme and the Branch Davidians burned to death. A year later, Oklahoma City got rocked by a truck bomb.

No martial law was called. No civil war ever happened. The Federal government quietly backed off from the militias and the lobbying side of things stepped in. Over the last 20 years, the gun-law landscape in this country has changed on a scale that people outside of the movement don't really comprehend. Guys who carried went from being weird survivalists to being the 50th percentile of gun owners, ARs went from being a mark of fringe groups to being the most common rifle in the country, and when Cliven Bundy brought a literal army to challenge a federal agency the agency backed down.

They won by bombing a building.

>>17755729
t. paid Russian agitator

>>17755745
Agitator? Sure, won't deny that. Russian? Nah, fifth generation Chicago raised amongst disillusioned hippies and black panthers who started carrying daily a solid ten years before Moore.

>>17755729
I don't know. You've given me a lot to think about here, and it's clear you know what you're talking about. I just worry about what would happen if you applied this mindset to the average liberal protestor I see today.

I think the key to any SUCCESSFUL protest, violent or non-violent, is focused and organized leadership. And that's what is sorely missing today.

>>17755771
The average liberal protester couldn't cut it, but they don't need to. The average gun owner wasn't ready to get shot by the ATF in the 90s. I'd also agree that you don't need strong, focused leadership, just an especially dedicated minority. The average protester becomes important in phase two, when you're using the breathing room violence has given you for extracting political concessions and lobbying for change.

>>17755497
A
FUCKING
WHITE
BITCH
Oh, you didn't vote Trump huh? Of course you say that now.

If she ostracizes her grandchildren for politics, she should just fuck off. Your man is your important one, not some old hag, don't bother with her.

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>>17755873
Can't tell if troll or Drumpf shill
OP, dump him

>>17755867
>> half cherokee
>>white bitch clearly
>> must have voted for trump.
I love this logic, if she is white she must be for trump.
>>17755879
Nope. Dumping him is not an option, nor is ostracizing my grand mother. I am looking to be calm about this.

>>17755497
Isn't it funny how people/organizations who call themselves democrats often have an utter disdain of democracy? It's like they need to name themselves democratic in order to hide the fact that they're not.

>DNC
>rigging elections, fraud attempts, etc

>Democratic Republic of Korea
>German Democratic Republic
>People's Democratic Republic of Algeria
>Democratic Republic of Congo
>Lao People's Democratic Republic
>Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal
>Democratic Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe
>Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka
>Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste

Call her out on her DINO (Democrat in name only) stance, OP.

>>17755497
Tell her "At this point, what difference does it make?" and show her that even if your fiancée hadn't voted for him he'd have won anyways.

>>17755944
I am trying to get to that point.

Update : My aunt who lives in aisa has called me up. Apparently my grandmother has been crying to her and it is super important that she tell me how horrible it is that I voted for trump. This is the fourth such call today from various people.

Jesus, at this rate my father will rise from the grave to have a say.

>>17755967
>Jesus, at this rate my father will rise from the grave to have a say.
kek

If I was you I'd tell them I actually voted for him. They'd have to deal with it.

>>17755497
>>17755546
I can't find anything wrong about what you did. (From somebody who finds Trump and his campaign despicable)

She fucking overreacts and you can either be a faggot and appease her ... or have some fucking conviction for your (perfectly valid choices) and do nothing. She'll get over it eventually.

>>17755566
It's not like democrats got anything to do with left wing yo. Even Sanders would be a typical right wing candidate in a normal country.

>>17756202
Democrats are the "left wing" of American politics, but yeah on a global scale the whole country could be considered "right wing"

>>17756205
Well, there is still the green party, no? Although given how irrelevant they are ... you do have a point. It's still weird to use a pretty universal term like that.

>>17756207
Are you from outside America? You're not wrong, but it's common language here. Democrats/liberals = left wing, Republicans/conservatives = right wing.

>>17756213
Yes I am, and yes I know. I just find is so fucking bizarre. Like an entire country decided to call the color red "blue".

>>17756229
That's us, man. We're like the only country that doesn't use the metric system, yet we call ours "standard." We invented a new sport, just for us, and called it "football," and we pretty much ignore and ridicule your version of football that actually involves feet. We refer to our country as "America" even though there's two full continents of America besides us. Do something about it, faggot.

>>17756202
>Even Sanders would be a typical right wing candidate in a normal country.
kek
He's the American Mujica
t. Uruguayan

>>17756237
>Do something about it, faggot.
That was the idea, bruv. Although it's no fun if the other person actually knows that it's a national thing.

>>17755754
t. Retarded "disenfranchised" guy who has never struggled in his life

>>17756202
>Sanders
>Actual communism
>Not left-wing

I'm glad I don't live in Europe where the only politics are how neo-liberal and progressive can you get.

>>17756268
>Sanders
>Actual communism
Where did he advocate for workers ownership of means of production or absence of state?

>>17756280
>No American can make more than 250,000.

>>17756285
And where did he talk about wage limits? Wasn't the 250k talk about households earning as much being middle class, which sounds about right.

Final update because aside from necromancy this saga is over with.

Entire family has had a say except mother and father who are either dead or vanished into the night. Uncle has shamed me for not adhering to obligation, aunt has told me it's only a 12 hour flight to get over here and so I better straighten up and fly right with her mother and I am just done with the whole situation. Post is not coming down and I am going to take the brunt of it come thanks giving and the new years but I don't care.

>>17756453
Your family suuuuuucks. Sorry this is happening.

>>17756462
thanks. You guys were helpful

Elizabeth Warren, of all people, made a very interesting speech shortly after the election. If you want to mebd bridges, that may be a good place to start.

I'm not sure there's much else you can do that would really be useful at this point. Your grandmother is objectively in the wrong, and the only thing she needs is to get a fucking grip, but telling her this will not accomplish anything but to make the situation worse.

>>17756280
>retards don't realize that social democrats don't just advocate for gradual reform that leaves the working class (read: the state) in control of the means of production after so and so bills nudging the nation in "the right direction"

Sanders is clearly an entryist, and the future of the Democratic party is socialism. Their loss in the Rust Belt is already teaching them their lesson about betraying the working class. They will not make the same mistake again.

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>>17756453
Something good might come out of this. You now see who the intolerants and the deplorables really are. Sorry OP but your grandmother isn't an isolated case. You might want to reassess who you want to support in the future.

Jfc, I've been having anxiety over this exact thing. I voted for Hill-dog and my husband voted for Trump; we both think they're equally shitty, one just slightly less so than the other on either side. My sister has been blowing up her social media with vehement anti-Trump shit and I'm legit afraid she'll stop talking to us if she finds out my husband voted for him. I'm afraid of Thanksgiving for the same reason; they're all pro-Trump and idfk how they'd treat me if they knew I voted HRC. This is the fucking problem. Not the candidates, but this violent division and immediate dismissal of the other side. I think you're doing the right thing. It's what I plan on doing if I'm ever put in a similar situation. You were as intelligent and polite as you could be. Keep standing up for yourself and pointing out the hypocrisy. You've certainly inspired me. I'm just sorry it's come to this and I'm sorry you've been hurt.

>>17755497
you're 100% in the right. People losing their shit on both sides are destroying this country, and it's fucking ridiculous.

Fucking Stephen Colbert hit the nail on the head with his last thoughts on election night- both sides keep drinking this poison. Both sides are becoming more and more radical and dangerous. Her attitude is what's to blame for Trump if she's that upset about it. You push too hard, the pendulum will swing back. Sounds like she needs to take a long hard look in the mirror herself.

Everyone makes me sick, I can't believe your family is treating you like this. I wish I had more advice to offer other than cut her out because a shitty person is shitty regardless of blood. I've seen a side of so many people that I'm just so appalled by... best friends and family torn apart by this shit is unreal. I can't believe everyone is falling into this trap.