If girls want guys to make the first move and take the lead then

>>17716928
>then what the fuck is feminism?
A way to weed out the betas.

Feminism is about whether you have the same chances within society and in the public realm.

Private relationships are different because it's hardly about being equal for the law or whatever but about personal, intimate preferences. Not to mention that heterosexual attraction and relationships are largely founded upon the differences between men and women. What men like in women (curves, soft relatively bare and rosy skin, big eyes) are the things that separate them from men and vice versa.
Now for most jobs that depends on rational thinking biological differences are hardly relevant. For a romantic relationship rooted in sexual attracted that directly relates to physical differences, it is different.

I don't see how this is much different from BDSM not being domestic abuse. All in all it's about choice. It's not very feminist to say that all women should work regardless of whether they want to or not. It is about making sure that if a woman wants to work, she's not hindered any more than a man would be in her shoes.

>>17716939
>Feminism is about whether you have the same chances within society and in the public realm.
I want an equal chance of being approached by a woman

>>17716944
Rekt

just don't try to date women who identify themselves as feminists, problem solved

>>17716944
You can make a stand for it but it would make more sense coming from male rights' movement than from feminism, given that most women are pretty comfortable like this (logically so given that rejection is just fucking scary).

Also, the fact of nature is that men have a more pressing urge to fuck, and then there comes the social fact that men are more encouraged to fuck around and less looked down upon for having fucked around. So women are not going to put out as readily as men are.
Basically if you follow the whole capitalism thing, pussy is sparse and valuable and dicks are abundant and worthless.

>>17716961
>but it would make more sense coming from male rights' movement
Those same movements that get blasted by the media, by feminists, by politicians, and by the general public? Sure that'll really be effective. I've heard they've made some great progress in custody, marriage, and male circumicision issues! That's the thing feminism's imposed equality, it's a fucking farce because natural biological urges mean women gain the upper hand.

>>17716928
It's just mass cognitive dissonance. They want all of the perks of being a woman AND all the perks of being a man which is just a broken way of thinking that will never make the sexes equal.

>>17716969
Do you realize that feminism was also ridiculed for years (and still is depending on which company you keep) before they started making a change? Obviously a movement that you just started is not going to achieve much.

Also, I feel that MRM did itself a huge disservice because so many guys spoke up in the early days who were clearly more interested in saying asinine things about women and feminism than talking about any of the real disadvantages that men face. That's just fucking stupid and fucks everyone else over.

>it's a fucking farce because natural biological urges mean women gain the upper hand.
In dating, yes. They always have and likely always will. Women have more at stake by having sex biologically and are basically bred to be selective about their partners.
But dating is only one part of life, not even spanning the whole of romantic relationships.

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>>17716928
>what the fuck is feminism

Part of a leftover meme-weapon that was studied by marxists, weaponized by soviets and left to run rampant on american society.

It will occur naturally on it's own regardless (eg, ancient rome) but the natural tendencies for it to show up were greatly exacerbated by communist agitators to try and subvert and erode America and the west while the soviets were shoring up defences and waiting.

Unfortunately it took too long and the Soviets collapsed anyway, but the weapon, it's agents and it's ideas still remain.

Video explaining the theory behind weaponized memes

https://youtu.be/SZnkULuWFDg

>>17716985
>dating is only one part of life, not even spanning the whole of romantic relationships.
Tell that to the worlds population of men when they have an erection.

>>17716985
>dating is only one part of life
Not being able to get one date has RUINED my life

>>17716928
>then what the fuck is feminism?
For the most part, bullshit.
Don't get me wrong, it had its time, not giving women the chance to vote is pretty shitty, as well as paying them less to do the same job.
The problem is that like autism, feminism has a very wide spectrum, but like autism, it isn't something that helps in the modern day.
On one end you have bright haired, obese girls with masculine clothing who hate men and enjoy being with women and having a nearly 1 in 2 chance of being in an abusive relationship.
On the other end you have Emma Watson who thinks there are injustices in the world because she heard of them at her ivy league university.
The thing is, on Emma's end they just want to give speeches and virtue signal, then discuss with guys "don't you think it's funny that women rarely pay for dinner?".
Emma Watson doesn't want to approach guys, not in the slightest, she wants to make observations and discuss them and other "isn't it funny how" topics.

I hear someone crying "b-b-but Anon there are women's rights activists", yes they are, they are actually doing something for the world (trying to stop FGM and let 9yo girls not be sold to 40yo men), they aren't feminists, it would be unfair to put them in the same category.

>>17716985
>Do you realize that feminism was also ridiculed for years (and still is depending on which company you keep) before they started making a change? Obviously a movement that you just started is not going to achieve much.
Okay, that's a good point. However it still doesn't mean that men's rights will ever take off. Also women have a general advantage beyond dating and sex, they will often get treated preferentially because of their gender. For all we know that was one of the driving forces behind feminism gaining popularity.

>>17716928
What I don't get about this thing with men "leading" is that women are all about consent and their right to reject you and say no.

So how am I supposed to 'lead' a relationship if I don't know you at all or what I'm doing? I'm supposed to just aimlessly try to court one women after another by attempting to 'lead' her and getting shut down?

Like it's fucking aggravating how women insist that men should have to lead the relationship, but then women call all the shots. Call me desperate but if a woman I was attracted to asked me out on a date, I wouldn't say no. They're more likely to get a yes for even just asking for a date. But each of them all has their own very specific 'type' in mind, usually based on experiences with their dad and/or their exes. And it's exhausting trying to navigate all that, so I don't even try nowadays. Especially because when I ask most happily taken women how they met their guy or just observe them, I can tell that despite this meme about men having to do the pursuing, women actually DO chase men they're interested in. And I can only surmise that if a woman is not chasing me, she's not really interested.

>>17717003
That's right, it doesn't, but there's no way of assuring whether it will or won't. It will depend on how the movement develops and how social climate develops. It is oftentimes necessary for people to explicitly point out issues and argue why they are issues before everyday people start to become aware of it, especially if it's so culturally normalized.

Women get a different deal, that you could prefer, absolutely. But I don't think it's objectively better. Part of the reason why women are treated friendlier is because they are not threatening, which is also the reason why they have to look out for themselves more and are easy victims. And looking friendly and non-threatening is not an advantage if you want to make a career for yourself.
On a larger scale, you cannot get around the world simply not caring as much about individual women (as opposed to the wonderful concept "women") as men. And let's be honest, in case someone gets the title of "best female X", people tend to quietly assume that there's a man (perhaps many men?) better at it still, whether it's some physical accomplishment or not. Whereas with men, no one seems to care about the mass concept of "men" or some poor fuckers falling off the boat, but it is easier for any man at all to be recognized on the merit of his character and his achievements.

I feel like part of the free friendliness that women receive is like the friendliness people have towards kids and pets. Not to be taken seriously.

>>17717023
>But I don't think it's objectively better.
Not at all, but I would say that it is better for the majority of women compared to a man's deal with is beneficial to the elite few. People always talk about how men show greater diversity and their potential range in an ability tends to be much larger. Physically it's clearly true, maybe mentally too (I believe most geniuses and retards are male?), but this still leaves most men within the same range as females, essentially providing that advantage to only a small group of men. And you see this all the time, feminists complaining about how most CEOs and other elite types are male, but you will never see them talking about how all the drain diggers are male, and all the guys killing themselves digging coal in a mineshaft are male. I don't even believe that women are at a disadvantage in this area anymore, they only think they are because they are looking at an old and established network of elite men who secured their positions long before current social trends took hold. To get a real snapshot of how things are changing they should be looking at the younger generations and how they're performing, but that completely destroys the victim narrative they've built up - too look at someone like a 60 year old tenured white professor and use him as evidence for contemporary sexism is ridiculous.

>>17717058
>(I believe most geniuses and retards are male?)
Yeah, this is true.

I do agree with your post entirely. I think that whereas in most parts of the world you are better off being male, and in the Western world it's not so cut and dry whether being female is preferable over being male, most average women do have more pleasing lives than most average men.

However, I think this has to do with many factors. A clear example would be that women have this tendency to flock together, which means that even lonergirls tend to eventually find some friends, and need to be a whole lot weirder to be actually ostracized. This means they tend to develop better social skills even when naturally awkward... whereas young boys who have issues connecting with peers tend to seek refuge in solitary hobbies and escapism like gaming which further alienates them from friendships.
A clear example for this is how commonly autism is not recognized in women, because female autists tend to be that much more apt at learning to cover up and/or compensate for their signs of autism from an early age onwards due to social correction.

Not that this is of any use to particular men, just saying that it's more than some societal complot.

>>17717090
>just saying that it's more than some societal complot.
Oh sure, I don't believe it's a conspiracy, just
another manifestation of our natural instinct to protect females. It leads to some enraging willful blindness and hypocrisy though.

>>17716928
>I don't have the balls to ask women out and it's their fault!

>>17716928
>what the fuck is feminism?
Wishing that men like you could handle the risk of being told no, but being glad that at least your kind can be filtered out simply by not approaching.

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>>17716928

>If girls want guys to make the first mov

Not all girls are the same. If you knew anything about girls you would know that. I've been asked out by plenty of women. Keep in mind though, I'm not an autistic piece of shit.

>what the fuck is feminism?

50% reasonable women, 50% psychos.

If they did it would make life much easier on everyone.
But due to bizarre social rules and lower levels of confidence women won't approach men.
I don't know why so many people are defending women not approaching guys or asking them out; if you like someone you should just make it easy.
I don't have any issues approaching or making moves on girls, but a woman who knows what she wants and has the courage to talk to me, kiss me, whatever is a huge turn on, and I kind of find passivity to be a turn off, probably because it makes things harder for me for no good reason.

>>17717090
Not the dude you were talking to but wanted to offer some insight.

The majority of people in my life, from friends to teachers to parents to romantic partners, from a very young age have me this impression that I was to be alone and needed to figure things out on my own. My own parents kept telling me nobody in the world cares about me except for me (not even they do apparently? Wtf). I would get laughed at and scorned for doing things "wrong" but never felt appreciated for doing things right because (in my mom's own words) I was supposed to know the difference. This of course didn't stop people criticizing me for messing up but always gave them grounds to ignore me info was actually doing well. Or hey maybe they would just nitpick too.

I didn't always choose to isolate myself and deep down I wanted to do social things, just not with people I didn't feel comfortable around. That or people would tell me they don't want to spend time with me which is fne, but then don't turn around and blame me for "isolating myself" when that wasn't really my intention. Now I am a sensitive type so I don't always handle criticism well but I'm just sharing my own experiences to provide some insight.

>>17717123
>>17717182
>completely ignoring the point made and not answering the question just to make your own meme
Fuck off.

>>17717236

>pokes at your insecurity with tiny bits of truth about your inability to interact with women just to watch you sperg out and throw a hissy fit

ayeeee

>>17717303

Heh, nothing personal kid.

But really he's just complaining about women being hypocrites.

>>17717303
>lmao trolled u xdd

>>>/b/

The only women that are feminists are ones that haven't been truly dominated sexually.

Only by pinning a woman down and using her as a fuck sleeve will cause her to awaken and become a real woman. Women are submissive by nature, and once you dominate them they love it and want only men. This is why feminists are fat ugly hags, they can't get a good dicking to make them realize they belong to their man.

>>17717236
>>completely ignoring the point made and not answering the question just to make your own meme
Not ignoring the question at all. Insisting on only being with men who can handle the possibility that a woman might tell him no is an important part of feminism, and has been since the days of the first wave. Insisting that the man make the approach is an efficient test: not a perfect one, but one with a rather low rate of false-negatives, and zero overhead for interaction.