Gays and Businesses

>>17640601
Made the right choice. Why should he decide who you sell your shit to? He doesn't have a share of your company, he's just another client. If he doesn't like your policy he can just fuck off.

From a business standpoint you made a bad decisions. You're not there to have political forums, but to sell people shit. Business-wise, you should have kept your mouth shut and taken his money. If you felt bad about it you could have donated a % of his business to a charity that helps LQBTQ people.

From an ethical standpoint you did the right thing of course. He was a bigot and figured you for one as well since he felt he could share his beliefs unhindered with you. The only problem is no one will probably ever know you lost a bunch of business for standing up for gay people, only you.

>>17640619
Yeah, exactly. He's a decent source of money, but I just felt that his presence would do more harm than good. As an evangelist, he talks to A LOT of people, and it would be pretty bad if word got out that a guy with such radical anti-gay views was a regular at my place.

>>17640613
I didn't explicitly tell him he wasn't welcome, just that we proudly serve gays at our business. He doesn't want to associate with a business that is LGBTQ-friendly.

>>17640601

there was no right or wrong. keeping quiet isn't wrong, you can't change his opinion and nothing you did would effect any stance. keeping quiet just guaranteed more money, which in trun lets you run a business that helps gay people with their orders when 'christian' places wont.

however, standing up for them is also not wrong. you took a stand and thought someones ignorance was so morally wrong that it had to be noted, and that you as the business manager were comfortable taking a loss in order to support the gays morally as well as possible.

both are helpful in some way, and both are meaningful depending on what you wanted. in the moment you acted rashly, but authentically. you chose to lose business because making it known what you support is important to you. you cannot be bought, nor can your silence.

no matter what you did, you did fine. in the future you might take a different approach. but as long as you aren't pretending to agree with him, you're fine.

the business owner (Assuming you're not the owner) might have a different opinion though.

either way, thanks?

I don't think it was cool for the suing of that bakery, but you have a right to deny service, and you did the right thing to tell that guy to get the fuck out. Some of the closest people in my life are gay too. If he doesn't like the policy, he can go somewhere else. And he sounded pretty butt hurt if he really said you're going to burn in hell for that

I think you overreacted because you said he did this without any customers around. Maximizing your profit at this business is your most important goal and you have to try to tolerate the drunk, stupid, religious and/or racist customers as long as they don't stifle your business.

When I worked in retail and a customer went off on some rant that I don't care about or agree with, I just say "Well, I dunno about that" and pretend I'm busy so they don't continue ranting much longer while at the same time not agreeing with their stupid opinions.

>>17640630
I'm a co-owner, so yes, the owner shares my opinion. I spoke with my partner about the incident, and they were upset about losing a regular, but proud that I stood up for our beliefs.

>>17640629
> it would be pretty bad if word got out that a guy with such radical anti-gay views was a regular at my place.

I don't agree. The problem would be if word got around that you were agreeing with his sentiments. I think there was a way to difuse your relationship without losing his business. Maybe by letting him know you have to remain impartial as a business.

If I saw a known Klansmen walk into a starbucks and buy a coffee I wouldn't blame the Starbucks for serving him. Money is money and everyone needs to make a living. If I saw the barista loudly agreeing or co-signing with every racist thing he might have said in the store that would be a different issue.

>>17640619
This. Making money is about alienating as little amount of people as possible from giving you their cash.

>>17640639
>Maximizing your profit at this business is your most important goal and you have to try to tolerate the drunk, stupid, religious and/or racist customers as long as they don't stifle your business.

This. As long as he is not doing this in front of other customers I'm not sure why it matters. You're just selling him baked goods not funding his next anti-gay rally.

What's a bakery look like yearly income wise?

OP, if your business is successful enough to be able to afford to stand up for principles even if it means losing a customer, by all means do it. If more people stood up about this kind of hateful shit, just saying like "You know that's not okay" it would make a difference. But, not all businesses are in such a position to do that.

>>17640601
Wrong decision. Let him talk and as long as he's not attacking anyone and giving you money then you let him continue.

Hope your business isn't hurt too much by the loss but I think this is a good lesson for you to learn. greenbacks are greenbacks, no matter whos disgusting shit-stained pockets they come from. Bakeries aren't exactly a booming market right now with superstores controlling the industry so it was stupid of you to think you could take a hit like that.


Fuck it, If I were you I would send him a gift basket or some shit to try and get his business back. No one will blame you or think you're a homophobe.

>>17640601
That was not your fucking business but you did the right thing by letting him know. Just you pushed your boundaries by saying that your best customers are gays, that's one way to oppose him by not keeping your mouth shut.

My god americans are so easily triggered by gay rights it makes me laugh. People there, small and old, divided by fags like a football team.

>>17640632
>>17640613

ITT: People who don't know how to run a business.


Just keep your mouth shut and shill pastries anon. It's not your business what people's beliefs are. He's not harassing anyone he's just making casual conversation which happens to contain hateful and bigoted language.

If he isn't insulting you personally or hurting business then just nod and smile and swipe his credit card.

>>17640673
Religion is heavily politicized here. I was actually pretty shocked that a heavily Christian country like Greece had an atheist prime minister. I'm not confident someone who is openly atheist could actually be elected here in the states.

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>>17640619
I have to agree with this anon. You're losing money by doing this, regardless of how you personally feel about the whole lgbt community.

Next time just keep quiet and professional, don't scare your customers off with the boogieman flavor of the day. If it isn't Muslims then it's gays, then blacks?

>>17640640

then you're fine. morally you had no issue. hopefully the univverse rewards you with even more business, but you didn't do it for the reward, you did it cuz you're a good person.

>>17640659
>If more people stood up about this kind of hateful shit, just saying like "You know that's not okay" it would make a difference.

Disagree. You don't change people's beliefs by alienating or disparaging them. You ask them questions or present some facts that subtly challenge their beliefs. Over time they might actually think about it and become less stubborn with their beliefs. The best method is to pretend you understand and partially agree with their side, but that you're playing devil's advocate because there are some things that prevent you from fully agreeing with them. It's a psychological trick, because people like to feel like they're having a mutual discussion rather than being argued with.

>>17640677
Religion in Europe is more like a tradition that keeps people connected. Keep in mind, in old times christianity was the key for trading between countries and if there was no christianity we would all wear headscarfs by now. It was not a question about if its real or not, it was our heritage, our history, our roots. Only younger people are jumped on the atheist bandvagon just to rebel against their parents and family. I roll my eyes to these american ideas to be honest I dont give 2 shits about gays as they not really connected to religion, and I dont even know how America connected these 2 things. I mean maybe the religious people were the bigots and gays are sodomists, but these are personality traits and has little to do with the bible and christianity itself.

>>17640659
Lol this, laughing at all the non business owning loli loving basement dwellers acting all Machiavellian despite their lack of entrepreneurial experience. You can afford to lose him and he's not worth the headache? Lose him. Can't afford losing him? Keep him on your team if his presence isn't affecting business.

My dad started a business from nothing, pulls 150k a year and doesn't give a fuck. You know what he does when he gets sick of a client?

"I cant do work for you anymore."

I think you made the right decision. It was not the right decision as a businessman, and yeah, some people would naturally not flinch at keeping the personal and professional strictly separate. But you experience things the way you do, this obviously bothered you and not without reason. I'd say if you already feel strongly about it, swallowing that down in favor of not losing a single customer would have made you lose respect for yourself. Integrity cannot easily be compromised upon.

>>17640601
You did the right thing dude!

>>17640752
God bless Californians

>>17640677
Fun fact, the primary reason for this is that the US is so vast and towns are so far apart that the whole idea of a state religion never quite worked out, thus creating many different branches of religion. Whereas in Europe the royalty was directly linked to religion (emperors and kings being seen as a placeholder for God or at the very least direct enforcer of the official religion), which meant that issues people had with the way the country was ruled also damaged their sentiments about the state religion.

I don't support the queers, but from a business standpoint you made the right choice. And also it's your business. He is right, if xtians don't wanna serve gays they don't have to. And if homo-sympathizers don't wanna serve christfags, they shouldn't either.

The beauty of the free market. Hard to believe so many people want to change that.

>>17640789
>usa is is big because of no state religion

Literally kill yourself.

Usa is big because there is lots of land out here, and it was all claimed by the same fucking people you dipshit. You think if there was an official religion everyone would have stayed huddled up in new england? Again, kill yourself.

>>17640790
Really? So if you walked into a bakery and some woman told you that she wouldn't serve you because you're a man, you'd shrug it off, go somewhere else and think to yourself how great the free market is? Or are you just saying this because it's not that imaginable for you that people would not want to serve you personally?

>>17640798
Learn to read before flipping out and calling people names and suggesting suicide. I said state religion never took hold because of the vastness of the land.

>>17640799
If a woman refused to serve me for a being a man I'd tell her to go fuck herself, and tell all my friends so no one would give her any money. I would be irritated but I'd be glad she told me because I wouldn't want to give me money to someone who is so diametrically opposed to me.

>>17640809
So imagine all the shops followed this procedure and everyday life would be filled with people airing their prejudices and refusing service and others flipping out in term and getting upset. How is that in any way better than there being legal and social grounds to treat customers equally in equal cases?

>>17640601
You should have kept your mouth shut taken his money and made an excuse to not be there.

You stood up for your beliefs. Great but know his business is gone.

Taking money and using it to support a cause he hates is a mad burn.

But you had to be a bitch about it and make a scene

Fuck gays, fuck lesbians, fuck lgbtqwrrtyuiopasdfgjjklzxcbnm, fuck liberals, fuck furries, fuck ateists, fuck YOU!

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>>17640835

>>17640816
That's when I open up my shop and run everyone out of business you dumb fucking moron. That's the whole point, most business owners are in BUSINESS to make MONEY not to harass random citizens into the arms of other businesses.

>>17640727
My dad can beat up your dad.

>>17640865
>jealous because he comes from an average earning family

>>17640863
But as has already been established by the topic, you can also draw in customers by being exclusive. It already happens to some extent with stuff like Forever 21 (was that the one? some clothing brand) only hiring hot people and some manager saying that he didn't want fat people to wear their clothes and that's why they don't make big sizes. Rich people prefer to shop in stores that only they can get into. No doubt in many parts of the world only serving religious people or only serving whites or only serving men would get you a + in many people's eyes. It depends on what the norm is. If most businesses refuse to serve everyone then a business that does serve everyone might only get the "wronged" groups. Or get a bad reputation if it becomes a case of sticking to "principles" in people's eyes to shun certain kinds of customers.

And it's not even necessarily the majority of the stores that have to act according to this to create issues. What if the only store that's still open at night in a certain town refuses to serve a group of people? Does that mean those people just don't get to get some food if they miscalculated how much they had in the house, tough shit?

>>17640899
>if we can't cater to everyone we need to start giving up our freedoms!!!

What if a prostitute doesn't want to sleep with black guys, should she be forced to? Or what if a jewish psychiatrist doesn't want to treat a neo-nazi? Or what if a guy is born ugly and he can't laid, do we force women to date him?

What I'm saying is that you can't account for everything. Even with the most vast and powerful beaurocracy people are going to get left out, have their toes stepped on, and and we will always have winners and losers. That's the nature of life. If some people have to wait until morning to grab a bite to eat, in your bizarre hypothetical situation where they live in a racist town with one shop open overnight they would have probably moved a long time before it got to that.

>>17640718
I said it would make a difference, not necessarily change that individual's beliefs. Getting embarrassed for spouting hate in public might make someone reconsider themselves. I also didn't tell OP to argue with anyone. You don't negotiate with these people you just tell them you're not going to put up with their shit, and goodbye. That's what I'm advocating.

>>17640601
You made the right choice, especially from a business standpoint. It's about volume.

>>17640953
I don't think those are comparable at all. A shop owner sells people things then they leave. Every example you mention involves an intimate connection with another human being, either physically or mentally. Besides, a prostitute risks being assaulted/killed with every customer she accepts. It is reasonable that she should get her own say in which risk she wants to take and which she wants to avoid. I'm Dutch and the way it works here is that the woman rents a window (or room or whatever) and accepts essentially as many or few customers as she likes. Provided everything goes as legally planned and she isn't being extorted behind the scenes anyway. She won't be that picky in practice because she needs to make money and have plenty left after paying the rent, but she can turn away anyone she's uncomfortable with essentially.
A psychiatrist needs to have no more than the unavoidable everyday bias. If he accepts a patient despite having strong personal feelings about their convictions he cannot overcome, that is unprofessional primarily towards the patient himself. And who would even be responsible for draining a random guy's balls and on what grounds?

I don't disagree with that and I agree the example was far-fetched. I am just surprised that someone would think positively of this idea and defend it. I guess ultimately for me the issue has barely anything to do with store business, but instead with politics. If the government legally and outwardly condones these kinds of policies and supports the right of (no longer so) public places of service, it is not believable to me that they'll try all within their power to avoid prejudice and discrimination in law enforcement or within governmentally supported/organized resources. And if people are not equal for the law that erodes one of the basic fundaments of modern democracy.

Your company not his. You gave him a choice. You're not in the wrong, he is. And in my humble opinion, he's an asshole.

>>17640720

The Bible literally says "if a man lays with a man as he would a woman", then he should be burned.

Plugging your ears and pretending gays aren't literally in the Bible won't help.

>>17641007
You also run a risk if you own a gas station, they get robbed all the time, and I'd say 90% of the time the robbers aren't white. So if prostitutes are allowed to discriminate for safety, everyone else should be allowed to as well.

>>17641114
You can take precautions for a gas station that you cannot for a prostitute. Prostitutes typically don't want to be filmed because they can be extorted with the material if they ever leave the life, and for obvious reasons you cannot have another person present either. Also on top of the aspects of being one on one and prostitutes not drawing a sample size crowd, they also encounter a high amount of people fucked up beyond belief on drugs which can make people do insane shit.
And then you still have the complication that someone who works at a gas station can find many jobs (in theory at least) that they don't need any additional work experience for. So unless there's big issues with employment, they opted for the gas station job knowing the higher risk when they could've looked around for something similar but lower risk. Prostitutes not so much, they are often "forced" by life circumstances to make money this way. You can be a whore with track marks, no issue. You can make enough money during the night to take care of your kids as a single parent during the day, which a factory job doesn't.
And all of that is not mentioning that for someone working at a gas station, a robbery is an extreme case that -might- happen once or, if they're unlucky, a handful of times during prolonged employment. For a prostitute the risk is inherently part of every new interaction.

Also, just a reminder in case you want to compare races, if you look at statistics between the sexes in terms of murder and robbery you might as well just have a no men policy instead of a no colored men policy. Testosterone is a hell of a drug.

You did the right thing Op. There is more to life than money.

>>17641105
The bible also later categorizes homosexuality as a sin that is forgivable and jesus is quoted in saying if you don't forgive others for their sins then you won't be forgiven for yours.

So you have to forgive homosexuality and show as much love towards homosexual people as jesus would towards you. Because it is also written to show as much love towards other people as jesus would towards you.

>>17640601
Well you made the right moral choice even though I don't like flamboyant gays but you're a garbage business man.

I can't agree with >>17640619 this point of view. Keeping your mouth shut when it comes to hurting others isn't really helping, and if this man was allowed to loudly shit on others every time he was around... Well, I wouldn't want to come over next time (because you, as owner, didn't call him out for that => he is free to keep ruining the atmosphere and make those around him uncomfortable).
So yeah, I guess you did the right thing customer-wise. Even if I were a person who kinda dislikes LGBT, I wouldn't be comfortable with being around people who shit over someone's lives loudly.

>>17641264
*I was
kinda drunk

>>17640601
Wrong decision business wise. Never act on impulse, got to learn to control it.

I live on the east coast, would go to your bakery if I could. Didn't know oldfags posted here. I'm 19 and used to have a shop selling glass (tobacco accessories), closed it down to focus on school only made about $5,000 over a year, after overhead. Whenever some degenerate pot smoker came to me and said
>dude fuck the system capitalism is such bullshit im so glad you sell this low price dude haha youre such a friend, we gotta chill, X professor is fucking annoying, dude republicans are dumb haha i smoke pot im smart
I held back, grit my teeth, sit back and watched TV while they down talked a man that literally saved my life, like fuck it I understand this is business, and that ain't just none of my business.

Morally speaking you're 11/10. Just pray (pun intended) that your fag customers will be supportive and be glad he wont be running his mouth anymore.