I filed a rape report last week. Can I contact his job?

If he forcibly held you down and had intercourse without your consent, yes. If you were drunk, no

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>>17613276
Story time or get the fuck out. We will help you if you convince us to.

>>17613290
I wasn't drunk. Or forced down. We have a mutual friend and I was sleeping over her house on the couch and woke up to him fingering me. (her boyfriend)

He's disgusting and I'm sure he's pulled this shit before.

>>17613296
>>17613292
>>17613290
Penetration by body/object is considered rape here. I initially reported him saying it was sexual assault but the detective told me otherwise.

>>17613296
>he fingered me

That's not rape. That's molestation. Git.

>>17613306
Nope. Don't care. You weren't raped. Git.

No, if you do that he can literally sue you for harassment amongst other things, and if he loses his job be prepared for a countersuit for damages and such. Everyone's innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, wether you know otherwise or not.

>>17613312
You can think whatever you want but according to my states laws that constitutes rape.

So anyway, I'm wondering if I should go to his job. It's a college.

>>17613329
You weren't raped. Good luck proving your allegations. Nobody will take you seriously btw.

>>17613329

Talk to a lawyer before you do. I think they'd probably advise you not to do something like that BEFORE the case goes to court, because it could possibly be used against you in the trial. The best-case scenario is that he actually gets convicted and punished by the law, so you don't want to do anything that might prevent that from happening.

>>17613296
>>17613306
Ok this still counts, you were asleep, so you couldn't have consented. Be careful, you may not want to even do that to him because it could fuck you over

mad that he didn't ask you out afterwards? i doubt you were seriously raped, sound like a vindictive whore desu

>>17613351
>>17613339
He's still posting on social media nonchalantly so they probably haven't gone to him yet.

It's pissing me off. But true, it would probably be a bad idea.

>>17613296

Ignore the namefag, yes, that is sexual assault/rape, and good for reporting him. But, I would let the law take its effect as opposed to going into his work and muddying anything that might be used against you in court or any other litigation.

>>17613360
I understand, I'm one of those people that like to get back at others for doing them wrong. Just wait it out, he'll get what's coming to him

>>17613360
If a woman gave me a handy while sleeping I'd take it as a compliment. Get over yourself, bitch.

Lawyer here. If you harass him at work "to teach him a lesson", you will be providing ammunition for a defense lawyer to destroy your credibility, ensure he is acquitted of all charges, and possibly even take you to civil court for slander. Let the police do their job.

>>17613296
ok i didnt read thread before posting i take it back, if he fingered you in your sleep then by all means proceed

>>17613276
Unless you work with him, his job has nothing to do with his relationship with you.

Police report is enough.

I appreciate your view on justice, but you are coming off as a little obsessive.

What do I know though, I wasn't fingered while I was sleeping. Probably would of just punched him in the face if I woke up to that, told his GF, filed a report and moved on with my life. His personality is punishment enough

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>>17613367
/thread

>>17613367
I dont think you would feel the same way if you woke up to Hillary Clinton drooling on your knob

>>17613360

I think it'd be a perfectly fair course of action if you lose the trial, which is possible, because consent is notoriously difficult to prove.

Just don't start smearing him in public before you take it to court.

>>17613452
>>17613373
>>17613370
>>17613366
>>17613362
>>17613369
Thanks, guys. Would his job find out if I got a protective order on him?

Because now I'm genuinely concerned I might fuck up the investigation if I do anything.

>>17613464
What would be the grounds for this protective order? Do you feel threatened by him? Does your regular day-to-day routine bring you in close proximity to him or his place of employment?

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>>17613417
Sure I would. No harm, no foul.

>>17613464
Why don't you move on with your life and leave this dude alone? GET OVER YOURSELF

>>17613276
you should contact his boss privately with a lawsuit in your hands otherwise youre defenseless. and do not stalk him. and btw, in all states thats molestation.

>>17613489
I feel threatened and the university he works for is right in my neighborhood.

>>17613523
>in all states thats molestation

Stop talking about something you have no idea about. I highly doubt you went through the multiple penal codes every state has regarding sexual assault and rape in their degrees and what constitutes it.

I did my own research and the SVU detectives confirmed it's rape, according to my states laws.

Penetration by any body part (fingers).

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>>17613549
Ugh.. you're such an insufferable cunt.

>>17613276
no an employer does not have legal grounds to fire someone based off of someone saying they're a rapist

chances are if he's convicted his employer will find out and subsequently fire him then

>>17613464
probably not but you won't be able to get a protective order "just because"; he'd have to be threatening you in some way. only other way is through a court order but that's not gonna happen unless he is charged

my condolences

>>17613464

Nah, a protective order/restraining order shouldn't fuck up your chances in court. That's legal, it's a normal thing for someone in your situation to do. And I think it's smart, because he might go a bit crazy when he finds out you're taking him to court.

The thing about your original plan of contacting his work is that, unless your charges are proven, it could be taken as slander.

>>17613530
Do you have regular cause for going to the campus (i.e. you're a student or employee)? If so, there would be valid reason for his employer to be informed of the order.

>>17613506

He committed a crime, and he'd probably do it again if he had the chance. She's doing exactly what she should be doing.

>>17613578
(allegedly)

>>17613584

Yeah, that's the whole point of a trial, mate. To determine whether or not the allegations are true

>>17613578
>crime

Oh, come the fuck on. He ALLEGEDLY fingered her after they ALL got drunk. Are you for serious?

>>17613594
I never got drunk. I made that clear already.

>>17613589
Then dont say he committed a crime. It's up for the system to decide that.

For now we only have OP's side of the story.

>>17613607

I was responding to the guy asking OP "why don't you just forget it and leave him alone?"

ASSUMING that she's telling the truth, he committed a crime. I'm not the damn judge, my opinion doesn't mean anything. I'm assuming she's telling the truth because this thread is pointless otherwise

>>17613603
Oh, bullshit. You were probably drunk. Who the hell has a "sleepover" without getting high or drunk? You're a fucking liar and it's damn obvious.

>>17613622
>Who the hell has a "sleepover" without getting high or drunk?

Well, not everyone is a degenerate.

>>17613625
Haha.. wow. Go back to /pol/.

>>17613622

What's your dog in this fight, man? You don't really think it's okay to stick your fingers inside a random girl while she's asleep, without any kind of permission, do you?

>>17613628
>not getting high or drunk is /pol/-tier

wew

>>17613631
No, that's not cool. It's not rape either. OP is fucking lying. It's obvious.

Yay, we have a second Pegasus. Just what everyone wanted. Christmas come early.

>>17613636
Oh, my bad. Why are you on 4chan, Christfag? Nice b8, btw.

>>17613642

How is it obvious? Why would she lie to strangers on 4chan? It's certainly possible, yeah, but that's why it should go to court.

And it IS rape, according to the law and any moral definition of the word. You can use another word for it if you really want, but you'd be incorrect

>>17613647
>not getting high or drunk means you're a christfag

what a nice environment you must live in

If you do it, he could probably counter sue you, don't take the the law into your own hands, get a fucking lawyer if your serious about anything

>>17613650
moral definition? whose moral are we talking about?

>>17613276
I unironically hope he murders you. here's no reason to drag his name through the mud like that. It'll happen plenty once the rape investigation starts.

>>17613650
>according to law

Well, according to common sense it's not. This woman is trying to ruin a man. For nothing more than a finger. THAT is far worse than anything that allegedly happened to anon. She should either shut the fuck up, or confront him.

>>17613699
>no need to drag his name through the mud
Lmao fuck you

>>17613603
So he was drunk but you weren't?

You raped him. Enjoy jail.

Sick fucks like you taking advantage of drunk people for sex makes me furious.

>>17613702
Nah, fuck you. Women are no better than men and vice versa. Stop putting the pussy on a pedistal.

>>17613702
No thanks, you'd probably call it rape and try to ruin my life

>>17613703
TOPKEK!!!

>>17613701
You don't have a sister, or a mother. Kill yourself.

>>17613707
Well when this is all over, he'll either be in jail or I'll make sure everyone knows what he did.

>>17613722
I have both and they would never destroy a man over one night of drunken debauchery.

>>17613724
He's going to sue you for libel and you'll be labeled a lying slut. Book it, buttercup.

>>17613701

I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue with you, man, but "rape" is penetration without consent. The point is that it's a violation. Whether it's a finger or a penis doesn't make as much difference to the victim as you seem to think

The guy ruined himself. He deserves the fair consequences for what he did

>>17613276
I am sorry for what happened to you, but congratulations for reporting it.

That said, don't go around scarlet-lettering him at this stage. I understand the urge to, but if you do, it could weaken your case in court. Remember, the main thing is to get him REMOVED, and for that to happen, the charge must stick.

>>17613730
not if OP just tells people that he was involved in her rape case, in which case people will look down on him.

>>17613704
Hey buddy I understand you're all heated up rn but you do realize you don't even know this guy. And he sexually assaulted a girl you don't know. And you don't know if he's done worse/will do it again.
Take like five seconds to think

>>17613742

I'm getting a strong vibe that this guy has finger-banged passed-out women before, and he's a bit shocked to find that other people take that kind of thing seriously

>>17613732
Fair consequences would be to let the police do their job, not go psycho revenge stalker mode by contacting his employer.

>>17613725
OP has repeatedly said they weren't drunk

>>17613744
I'm def getting those vibes too. He's taking it a little too personal

>>17613742
You don't even know this "girl" assuming she is one.. You have been conditioned to automatically believe the allegations launched by any woman. This is a problem. It's NOT ok. Btw- a finger stuck inside of someone is FAR different from the violent penetration of a penis. This is totally different. Not even on the same planet, and certainly not worth the destruction of a man's life. Yes, I'm passionate, and you should be to.

Wouldnt be surprised if op was flirting with him all night. Why even sleep there? With a guy you dont know? In the same room? Sleep at this dudes house? If your friend did it would you be mad?

>>17613762
I had to stay out of my apartment for 6 days while they did over ceilings. She and I are pretty close and she let me stay. It was on my 4th night that I woke up to him fingering my vagina and rubbing my thigh.

I quickly left, and had to make sense of it. It's a shocking and violating feeling.

>>17613760

She asked how she should handle this. Everyone recommended that she should talk to a lawyer and handle this through the legal system. I don't automatically believe her, I believe she needs to prove that he's guilty, in a courtroom, like everyone else who accuses a person of a crime.

You automatically disbelieve her, with no knowledge of the situation. You're also weirdly defensive of non-consensual finger-sex. As stated before, there actually isn't much difference. The difference between a rapist and a non-rapist is the willingness to commit actions like this AGAINST THE GIRL'S WILL. The crime is the violation of consent. It's about the criminal mindset, not the difference between a penis and a finger.

>>17613779
innocent until proven guilty, senpai

>>17613788

Is that not what I just said?

>>17613779
The subject at hand is whether or not she should confront this man's employer (as stated by the OP). She doesn't want justice, she wants revenge for whatever reason. This raises a red flag with me. My "Spidey Sense" is tingling if you will. I certainly don't condone unwanted penetration as others in this thread have implied. It just seems obvious to me that the OP has ulterior motives. Forgive me if I come off as nonchalant in regards to rape.

>>17613760
Look, all I'm saying is if you didn't finger bang sleeping women then you wouldn't be projecting this hard and feeling this defensive

>>17613775

Okay. To me, you sound like you're hiding something, or some shits fishy. That's my opinion. Assuming here that your friend said it's no big deal or something. There is some spite.

If i was talking to a girl and she told me this crying, id feel for her. If she was angry telling me, shes a hoe. Imo of course.

If you're embarrassed or really can't collect your feelings on this then go to a therapist. As of now, rape case is all you got unless you want to talk to him and fuck it up.

>>17613795
Ugh... keep your straw man fallacies to yourself.

>>17613793

Yeah, and I was recommending the whole time that she shouldn't do that. Pretty much everyone is. If she's telling the truth, it'd ruin her case. If she's lying, it'd ruin his life unfairly. I'm with you on that one.

Not so much with you on this one:

>This woman is trying to ruin a man. For nothing more than a finger. THAT is far worse than anything that allegedly happened to anon.

You're a shit person, it doesn't take long to spot it

>>17613796
This doesn't sound fishy AT ALL though? She stayed over a good friends house while work was being done at hers. That is a pretty typical situation

>>17613775
Why were you sleeping next to him?

>>17613807
I was sleeping on the couch. I wasn't sleeping next to him. They were upstairs. This was really late.

>>17613802
A man shouldn't be ruined for fingering someone. I don't care if it was unwanted or not. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your disparaging remark has been noted however.

>>17613815
If you were asleep and you woke up to a man sticking his finger up your ass, you wouldn't feel violated?

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>>17613813
Mmmhmm. Sure thing. Try not to drink yourself into oblivion amongst men you don't know well in the future, hun. (^;

>>17613818
Violated? Yeah, sure. Would I want to ruin his fucking life over it? Hell no! Fucking hell, it's like the Twilite Zone in here!

I want Wayne Lambright as my lawyer. Just saying.

>>17613815
>Any person is mine to finger
What a fuck

>>17613730
Libel:
>objectively false statements
>intended to do harm
>that cause monetary damages

Fuck off back to plebbit, namefag.

Does anyone find it ironic that defensive anon(s) will give the dude the benefit of the doubt but the chick is assumed to be lying.

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>get accused of rape
>proven in court you didn't rape anyone
>but you're still on a sex offenders list
>and you'll still probably be fired
>there is no way you'll get hired again
>everyone will treat you weird

MORAL: Never associate with females

>>17613832
Yeah, claiming that someone raped you without evidence is a false statement that is intended to do harm which will cause monetary damage. Idiot.

>>17613831
>a person is mine to finger

Wow.. things that I never said. Obviously there should be repercussions. Ruining man's life is not one of them. Learn to read.

>>17613836
Oh, hi op!

>>17613838
>MORAL: Never associate with females
The moral is dont have shady sex. Most people have sex and there is no question. If there is a question of consent, keep it in your pants. It really not difficult. Especially for virgins on 4chan.

>>17613806
Not the story sir, her. After putting more consideration the makavelli type 'revenge' style may be a psychological coping mechanism she has so she doesn't feel the pain he put her through.

Miss id like you to take an inventory, if you're usually a respectable and innocent girl or whatever and this is causing you trouble in your life, see a psychiatrist. This not only will help your case, its the BEST thing you could add to a rape case, it will help ease your mind.

>>17613853
>willingly engage in sex
>regret it for whatever reason
>go to the police
>if you are a woman they'll have the guy in cuffs and his life ruined

MORAL: Females, not even once

>>17613847

Taking him to court is "ruining his life?" What would you suggest instead?

People saying to seek legal counsel and avoid this move are correct. Revenge is a high—a pretty fucking solid one, mind you. Your best case scenario is he gets fired and you get to be smug about it with no consequences, which is unlikely. It's more likely there will be lash back against you, whether it comes from the accused or the court.

Do pursue the protective order. I doubt they'll grant it now, but it should be noted that you asked and reinforce your case in the future, especially if harassment does occur. Save any and all communication from him, if it happens, bring it back to the police, and request it again. You have a right to try to protect yourself.

Keep working with law enforcement and your lawyer (if you have one). The rest of the time, live as normally as you can. Go to therapy weekly or monthly and complain/cry/rage/lie on the floor listlessly with a therapist that can guide you through the feelings. Most of all, remember this: closure comes from within. You should pursue legal justice, but you'll only heal if you work on yourself and move on in your own life.

Take care!

>>17613867
She wants to confront his employer. Read the op...

>>17613847
>Obviously there should be repercussions
Okay, what do you think is appropriate then?

>>17613871

That was resolved like an hour ago, she said she wasn't gonna go that route

>>17613276
Yeah call in anonymously and say you were raped by him. Fuck the anons that are trying to put it on you. They're too dumb to understand such a destructive act

>>17613867
>He works at a pretty well known place

This is literally the opening sentence of the thread and it's obvious that she doesn't want justice, but rather revenge (for something). Learn to read between the lines you fucking child.

>>17613862
What kind of woman would go through the hassle of reporting a rape if it didn't happen?

Have you ever reported a crime to the police? You don't just walk in and out. It can take hours.

>>17613822
>'Twilite'

>>17613876
Monetary damages. Provided she can prove the accusations.. harr dee harr harr

>>17613879
Revenge and justice are synonymous you moron

>>17613884
>What kind of woman would go through the hassle of reporting a rape if it didn't happen?

>What kind of woman would do something short-sighted and amoral to make herself feel better?

>>17613884

It happens. I've been on OP's side this whole thread, but come on, don't act like false accusations NEVER happen. The answer to your question is "an angry, amoral woman who really wants to hurt a guy for some reason"

It's rare, but it happens.

>>17613889
>you moron

Oh, the irony.

>>17613888

>It's okay to commit sexual assault as long as you can afford to pay for it

Think it through, man

>>17613894
You're still in this thread?

I just got here, read your first (erroneous) post, and I can only assume that you're here defending it still.

Thank god you're using a name, anyway.

>>17613897
>fingering
>assault

Think it through man.

>>17613906
Ok I was right, you ARE still defending that.

Emergency worker here, you're literally wrong.

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>>17613902
>I just got here

You and I both know that's "erroneous".

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A woman who was actually raped wouldn't be asking a Kenyan pottery message board for advice. She would feel violated, terrified and seek help from literally anybody else in the world. Rape is a terrible thing to experience regardless of gender, can ruin your entire life and change your entire personality.

The opening line of the OP, meanwhile, shows more interest in the repercussion her alleged rapist will face. She speaks in the usual tone you hear from a woman who's being a complete cunt (read her replies.) Also note that she didn't say "I was raped," she said "I filed a report." She's also way more interested in arguing with some retarded namefag over whether or not she can get the guy in trouble, as opposed to what someone who was actually raped would care about: that they were fucking raped.

This thread is either terrible bait or OP wasn't actually raped and ironically deserves to be for trying to ruin somebody's life for no reason.

>>17613915
Ok m8, if that's all you got.

Yeah, I just got off of work and popped in the thread. I thought "hey, a namefag said something wrong, I bet they're still defending it".

And here we are.

>>17613906

IT FUCKING IS. BY ANY DEFINITION.

Protip man - you don't fucking put your hands on people without permission, you sure as hell don't put your hands INSIDE people without permission

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>>17613908
JESUS CHRIST I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FAGGOTS ARE TAKING HIS BAIT. FUCK ME, YOU GUYS ARE RETARDED...

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>>17613878
Obvious rape victim

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>>17613923
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT HE IS TROLLING YOU?

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>>17613921
>OP wasn't actually raped and ironically deserves to be for trying to ruin somebody's life for no reason.

Hey OP, what evidence do u have? It seems like its just gonna be your word vs his, no way hes getting convicted desu.

>>17613921
Ah yes, you think rape victims have to act like how hollywood portrays them.
>cries in shower for hours
>unable to communicate with men
>bloody and bruised

And yeah, OP has the right to be angry and unforgiving.

>>17613921
There is not a single script that "all women who were raped" follow. Your whole thing there is criticizing the language of her post, instead of the actual merit of it. Women react many different ways to rape, and continue to act many different ways about it for their entire lives.

Man, you can bet that if I woke up to some dude with his finger in my ass, the absolute nicest thing I'd do to him is ruin his career. When you have to look for any, ANY reason to disparage someone's claim to their own body, don't you think that's a sign that maybe you shouldn't?

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>>17613924
Imagine being this retarded

>>17613921
>note that she didn't say "I was raped," she said "I filed a report."
Yes because I wanted people to know that there is an ongoing investigation and police are aware in case his employer wants more information.

Not "I was raped and didn't do anything. Can I tell his employer"

I was raped, filed a report, and now want to contact his employer.

>>17613957
All women deserve to be raped you worthless bitch

>>17613945

I'm not sure what cuck shed you just walked out of (if you're retarded you'll stop reading right there) but men, least of all modern men, are not perfect. The courting process is complicated and fundamentally retarded, and shy of the guy holding you down most of what he tries isn't really worth putting him on a sex offender list.

Here's the worst possible scenario for OP, just as an example, that would justify reporting him

>man is creeping on her
>she tells him outright "I'm not interested"
>he tries to touch her
>she says outright "Do not touch me"
>he touches her

There is the grounds for charges. They probably won't be rape charges, but he'll be put on a list regardless and he'll probably be fired.

Here's another, admittedly way more common scenario

>man is awkward with women
>woman doesn't give clear or obvious signals
>man interprets this as a sign to try his luck
>woman does not, again, give obvious signals to fuck off (such as telling him outright "fuck off")
>he pokes her pussy with his finger after trying other shit

I mean this shit took place at a fucking sleepover apparently. Unless OP is underage, who the hell has an adult sleepover without somebody getting fucked?

I know this is difficult for you to understand because I can pretty much guarantee you aren't old or experienced enough to realize it, but what's "okay" to try varies entirely between people. We don't know the details so it's pointless to even give OP advice because, as I have helpfully pointed out, her interests lie 100% in getting someone in trouble rather than her apparent rape. This is a flag so red a dog would see the color.

I won't even bother arguing further because the OP can report him for rape and he'd probably get put on a list just because he was in the same room with her, and thus she can ruin his life at her leisure. But maybe there's a slight chance you won't be retarded and see there's a pretty high chance the OP wasn't raped, she's just a horrible shit.

>>17613976
/thread

>>17613276
If he is found "not guilty" of the rape allegations, then he could sue you for libel especially if the allegations were found to be false.

>>17613976
>I-I'm not a virgin

>>17613976
op here.

Both you examples are flawed and non-relevant because I never even had the initial opportunity to tell him to fuck off. I was asleep, and only then he stopped.

>sleepover
I'm 20, she's 24, he's 29.
My apartment is getting done over and she said I could stay. It wasn't drunk partying or flirting.

Yes, I'm mad. He's disgusting and I know that most likely, I won't get justice because most rape investigations are not even brought to trial.

I'm angry and sad. I want revenge. Yes.

>>17614000
Kick him in the nuts. Seriously. That would be "justice/revenge". Or just tell his girlfriend. Don't put his entire life in jeopardy though... What you "suffered" just doesn't warrant it.

>>17614000
Post his facebook. People will comment on his stuff that he's a rapist and voila, sweet (anonymous) justice

>>17614009
That's terrible.. Much worse than getting fingered without consent.

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>>17614008
>What you "suffered" just doesn't warrant it
Your shitposts are getting pretty lame. Go get ready for school tomorrow

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>>17614000

Do you mind telling me how him touching your pussy has instilled such a thirst for vengeancee in you?

To put it in perspective, if someone grabbed my cock I would be insulted and tell them to go away. But I wouldn't go to the police and try to ruin their life because, frankly, the punishment would be disproportionate to the offense.

I know I'll get twenty replies to this comment along the lines of "how dare you, making a woman uncomfortable is the greatest sin" but for fuck's sake he didn't jam his cock into you until you bled. He didn't give you a sore ring for weeks. He didn't potentially expose you to life-ruining STDs. He didn't risk impregnating you. He tried touching your pussy because he's apparently a creep, and you did the logical thing by telling him to stop (which you just admitted he did when asked.)

>>17613976
You're right, I was very tempted to stop reading immediately, but because I wanted to tell you in a very specific way to fuck off, I decided to read on.

Holy shit, man, I hope you're trolling me.

Your dainty little strawman greentext aside, how often does sexual assault appear in your daily life? Because my job involves rescuing rape and sexual assault survivors, so I actually happen to be in a unique position to tell you what's up.

Instead of nitpicking every single sentence you posted (since literally every sentence you posted is factually incorrect on a legal level), I'll just make one big broad statement about all of it.

You're not supposed to touch women until they give you an explicit "stop". You're supposed to WAIT until you get an explicit GO AHEAD.
>but what's "okay" to try varies entirely between people
That's exactly why there are laws in place that tell you not to do that.

What he did was legally rape. Not sexual assault, because that is in a different category. What he did was tried and true rape. I don't particularly give a shit if that jives with your homebrewed 20 year old fantasy about how rape works, because that's the actual definition.

If someone doesn't say "go ahead and touch me" then you don't fucking touch them. That is the end of the story. If there is any doubt in your mind whatsoever, then don't do it.

>>17614008
I specifically go out of my way to cuck dudes like you. Not YOU specifically, but who spout the same ignorant shit you do. It honestly does my heart good.

>>17613999
>>17614000
Good lord is it getting hot in here or is it these double triples

>>17614014
>>17614008
Is a fucking idiot. He deserves to be ruined for what he did. His actions deserve to have consequences. He knew it wasn't all in good fun when he finger fucked you in your sleep, he just didn't think you'd wake up.

>>17614018
Oh please.. She was allegedly fingered.

>>17614019
You seem to be under the impression that body autonomy is a suggestion and not a human right.

>>17614021
Haha.. wow. You are soo brainwashed. I honestly pity you, dude.

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>>17614021
preach

We are most certainly witnessing evil here tonight.

>>17613276
>I'm not some sociopathic bitch

t. sociapoathicbitch

call up his work, and three things will happen
1. they will want nothing to do with you, because they arn't responsible for what their employees do outside of work

2. they will call him into the office to explain himself

3. he will say it's a private matter, that you are crazy, and apologise to the boss for the inconvenience you caused

then maybe he fills a restraining order against you, writes up a harassment charge, or files for slander

since you already called the police, he may as well make himself look less guilty by going after you

>>17614019
>be you
>fuck apartment landlord is renovating
>"hey anon, you can stay over my place"
>nice.jpg
>goes to sleep
>you're dreaming of lambs and shit and he's creeping down the stairs
>opens your legs (or however it happened with OP)
>jams his finger inside your body
>full penetration

All while you were at your most vulnerable.

>>17614030
Lol yeah, lay down more of your early 20s wisdom, bucko. I'd like to hear more about how your milquetoast, string-bean white boy suburban life compares to my time as an EMT in one of the biggest heroin and human trafficking cities in the United States.

I bet you're an oldfag waaaaay back from 2012 or something

>>17614036
You're witnessing the horrid phenomenon of people trying to bully a victim because they identify with a rapist purely on that basis

>>17614021
>Because my job involves rescuing rape and sexual assault survivors, so I actually happen to be in a unique position to tell you what's up.

Nobody cares, this is 4chan; unless you have some statistics to give to me, your supposed profession and rhetoric means literally nothing. The only thing that matters here is logic.

>What he did was legally rape. Not sexual assault, because that is in a different category. What he did was tried and true rape. I don't particularly give a shit if that jives with your homebrewed 20 year old fantasy about how rape works, because that's the actual definition.

Believe me, I won't argue with you. I said in that post you're replying to that touching a woman in any way can be deemed rape in the modern U.S. legal system. It's more fucked than the OP was, that's for sure.

What I'm explaining is that, realistically, trying to ruin his life and career because he was an awkward creep is petty. The OP was right when she told him to stop, and the guy was right to stop when asked. Nobody is going to be Hank Hill and go through legally-sound discourse like "excuse me, you're a very attractive woman, may I grind on you in this club while we dance?" That shit doesn't happen and if you think it does you're the naive one.

I'll reiterate for the slower poster in the thread (you) one last time: the guy was a creep, but what he did isn't really worth ruining his life over. Trying to ruin his job and put him on a list for ill-fated touching is why less and less men in this country want to associate with women at all. She was within her rights to feel offended and demand he fuck off, and even to some degree make the guy fearful that something will come of it.

Come to think of it, that's a way better solution. OP: tell the guy you can report him for touching you, make him piss his pants and then tell him later you're not going to. You'll get the satisfaction of watching him squirm and then feeling like "the bigger man."

>>17614044
I'm sure that's how it went down.. yup. Mmmhhhmmm. OP isn't even a gril btw. Wanna know how I know?

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>>17614046
>I'd like to hear more about how your milquetoast, string-bean white boy suburban life compares to my time as an EMT in one of the biggest heroin and human trafficking cities in the United States.
>anonymous user
>on an anonymous imageboard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_obeR1OIm8

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>>17614046
I am 47. I've also been married and founded Yelp! (which was subsequently stolen out from under me)

>>17614058
You know what's petty is violating and potentially traumatizing somebody because you're horny. There's a reason you'd be embarrassed to have this conversation irl

>>17613296
top fucking kek legit rapist and criminals can get girlfriends but I can't.

>>17614069
>touching
>violating

In the most touchy-feely court, yeah probably. Do you want to talk law or do you want to talk like a human being?

>>17614058

I get what you're saying, but I think you must've misread the fact that she was ASLEEP, not conscious, when the guy stuck his fingers in.

No matter how awkward you might be with women, you can't misinterpret signals from someone who isn't conscious.

If they'd both been awake, if they'd been flirting, he made a move like that without permission, and stopped when she said stop - that'd be a different story. But she was asleep, dude. That's rape. There's no doubt that the guy KNEW he was doing something wrong.

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>>17614046
I'm also running for President. Any other smart-ass remarks?

>>17613339
This. I'm sorry anon but you need to just block him from contacting you or from seeing his posts online... maybe get that browser extension that blocks all references or posts by an ex and use it for him... then work with your lawyer and the police to try and get him convicted.

You didn't deserve this and I'm sorry that it happened to you. But even though you probably imagine beating the shit out of him or publically embarrassing him for what he did to you, the best thing to do is keep your cool and wait for the legal system to do it's job. The last thing you need is for someone to accuse you of being unstable or something.

>>17614014
Why do you care if you think he didn't do anything wrong? If it's not a big deal then why should he be embarrassed?
Because "legally" and "in the eyes of others" he's a rapist, but in YOUR opinion he's fine? Get your brain checked before you start peeping on children

>>17614079
The law makes it pretty clear. Police encourage people to file reports when it comes to sexual assault/rape. The fuck are you going on about?

>>17614058
>They guy was a creep
He is a rapist by all definitions but yours. What he did was criminal rape. There is no two ways about it.
>all that matters here is logic
Ok. Logically, he penetrated a girl. While she was asleep, which means she was unable to give consent. So, for a third, forth, and fifth time, just because you cry "la la la I don't think that's fair" doesn't mean that it isn't, by every single account, an act of rape.

Also, I'm sure the irony that you used "rhetoric" incorrectly towards me, while spouting textbook rhetoric, went right over your head.

Logically, someone who encounters sexual assault on an almost daily basis would have a more refined point of view than almost anyone else on the matter, right? Just out of curiosity, how many times do you speak to sexual assault survivors in the workplace?

>Noooo, that doesn't count!!
Oh ok guys. You're right, I'm just SAYING I'm an EMT so I can trick you guys into not defending a rapist. You got me.

>>17614048
man I have seen with my own eyes women do this shit

>be in school
>a girl starts telling everyone my friend raped her
>I ask my man about it, and he says he had sex with her at a party; but that he has no idea why she said she was a rapist
>he's embarrassed, because she wasn't a good looking girl
>first the girls says it was at the party, then she said it was another time after the party
the truth of it was she felt awful because a guy slept with her, and she was so ugly he was ashamed of himself
so she goes making shit up to protect her ego

>in colledge
>girl tells me my friend raped her
>what the fuck man, my friend isn't that kind of guy
>she hasn't told anyone but me, I ask her why and she doesn't really have a reason, I hardly know her
>I ask her when it happened and she was really vague, I'm doubting her story
>I ask her what she wants from me, why is she telling me this
>she wants to have sex with me
>wtf.jpg

man I fully sympathise with real victims, I've known a few

but you have to recognise that there are a heap of women out there who will pull the rape card and try to ruin a guys life, for revenge, to get attention.

it's pretty common that when a girl is raped, she deliberately accuses a random guy; either because she's scared of the perpetrator, she's scared nobody will believe her, it's a family member etc etc

and one of the tell tale signs of this seems to be that instead of getting counseling, seeing a doctor, calling the police; the woman trys to dig into the guys life in ways he can't fight back against eg. calling the dudes work

>>17614079
It's a felony?
What a buncha rapists man

>>17614091
>You didn't deserve this

Oh my fucking god.. It was a finger inside "her". Just stop already. You god damned pussy.

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>>17614088
>unconscious

Yeah, good point. I didn't read anything about her being asleep. If he's trying to take advantage of her when she's obviously not awake then that's not cool.

I still like my idea of threatening legal action though. I don't think he's a rapist, just really awkward and unpleasant. One good scare will probably fix this whole issue.

>>17614092
He did something wrong (allegedly). No doubt. Doesn't warrant his life to be ruined.

>>17614104
Totally agree with this post.

>>17614098
Your anecdotal evidence of he said/she said is fine and I'm not gonna start poking holes in your clearly vague stories that have conclusions comprised entirely in speculation
But there's no reason to doubt op. She said clearly what happened, and it's cut and dry rape. The fact that you would even think "well she's probably lying" and then shit on their thread instead of providing anything close to constructive is incredibly distressing. Creepos like you spike drinks and convince yourselves "her eyes were open when you brought her into the room".

>>17614110
Every legal system and the vast majority of humanity would beg to differ

>>17614104
I remember being in high school with this really awkward and greasy kid. The type of kid who doesn't cut his hair, wears the same graphic shirt, doesn't cut his nails, who would stare at girls and not look away when they noticed.

I remember being so disgusted by him and nah, when these type of people step out of line, like diddling, nah lock them up and throw out the key.

It's more of a reason, imo.

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>>17613853
>not knowing about mattress girl

the chad that was fucking her was having consensual sex but the girl got mad at him for not staying exclusive and falsely accuse him of rape. this is why all women carry a loaded a gun and they can ruin your life with a false rape.

>>17614119
The vast majority of humanity is wrong. Nothing new, to be honest.

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>>17614122
>people who are strange and awkward should go to jail

I'd tell you to go back to Facebook but even they would think you're an idiot.

>>17614129
>touching kids bums should be legal !

>>17614104
>I don't think he's a rapist, just really awkward and unpleasant
That's fine but just so you know, what he did is literally the definition of rape. Specifically, penetration is one of the big deciding factors between rape and sexual assault.

>>17614110
I want to live in the world where you think losing your job and having some people drop you on facebook is "ruining his life". Being honest here, OP probably won't get very far in the legal avenue. What the dude did is rape, no doubt (except from you), but there is virtually no evidence. Unless the dude says "yeah I fingered her while she was sleeping", he most likely won't ever appear on a sexual offender's list or really have any sort of punishment. You seem to enjoy taking the victim role any chance you get, but the reality is that the present court system heavily favors men in things like this, since evidence of this nature can be tricky or inconclusive.

But also, not only do I believe that this person /deserves/ to be punished (and implore OP to take all legal action available regardless of what I said above), I apparently come from much meaner places than you do. I've hurt people for a lot worse reasons than fingering my asshole without my permission.

>>17614134
You're a special kind of stupid, huh?

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>>17614137
>I apparently come from much meaner places than you do. I've hurt people for a lot worse reasons than fingering my asshole without my permission.

Oh, shit! Didn't realize I was talking to Batman. Spare me kind sir!

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>>17614137
so..much..cringe

Are we being raided?

>>17614150
That's the thing, man. I live outside Boston. Parts of it are pretty bad but it's not Kuwait.

So the fact that you don't even consider violence being a consequence of the unsolicited fingering someone's sister/girlfriend/what-have-you makes me chuckle. What kind of pussy did your father raise?

>>17614163
Actually, I advocated violence for fingering a woman. Are you legitimately illiterate? Damn.. feel bad for ya.

>>17613296
>>17613306

How strong is the evidence here? If it's your word against his and you contact his job, he really could sue you for slander and possibly win. Especially if he gets his girlfriend to testify on his behalf.

Best bet is to just lay low. If he gets convicted, then his job will surely know anyways.

>>17614168
A'ight man, I got it out of my system. Here's your last (you), thanks for having a name so I can filter you. Peace, m8

>>17614173
Run away.. yes. Reading is hard for you. We get it.

>>17614163
yoooo I live in Arlington. What's up based EMT anon :)

(Not op)

>>17614115
I'm just not going to tell OP how to ruin some guys life

we're only taking her anonymous word for what actually happened, should be be risking the welfare of this guy by telling her how to attack him

it's irresponsible, we shouldn't tell people how to attack each other

>>17613921
>A woman who was actually raped wouldn't be asking a Kenyan pottery message board for advice. She would feel violated, terrified and seek help from literally anybody else in the world.

Haha, dude, wat?
Yeah, it's violating and terrifying, that's why people go to anonymous places for comfort where there won't be consequences for how the conversation goes. Once you go to real people, there's no taking it back and it's out of your control. Especially with a sentiment like OP's, which could potentially come back to bite her if she expressed it IRL.

>>17613976

Did you miss that OP was dead asleep? Hard to misread that as a come-hither look.
Only possible defence is that maybe he thought he was digitally raping his girlfriend, who lived there, and maybe they had an arrangement where that was okay.

>>17614299
>getting fingered
>violating and terrifying

Haha.. wow. Surely she has a lifetime of PTSD ahead of her. "Break out the pitchforks and torches Ma! We got us a "fingerer" to hunt!!"

>>17613276
I get that this guy is sleazy as fuck. I think what he did is rotten and despicable. If someone had done that to my sister and I found out I'd fucking break his legs. But stick to the arena if you're gonna fight is my view. Now if you felt like this guy poses an immediate danger to others in that other arena and you don't want to see someone else get assaulted by the guy then I think that's good cause. But if you're doing it for revenge I think that ruining someone's entire life isn't a good reflection on who you are. It's like someone hits you and then you get revenge by killing their family. Proportional responses... that's what it's about. I think a proportional response is to file the report and to let people in mutual acquaintance know what he did to you. They might discount you though but filing the report is important even if he beats it because if it happens again he likely will pay a pretty big price in his personal life as well.

I'm kind of with the other guy in that I think rape should be reserved for violent sexual acts. I lean towards that molestation tag or sexual assault works too. But regardless of the definition, the piece of shit needs to be known for what he is to police and those around him. Although like I said, work is kind of a different animal in socializing.

>>17614308
but the only source for this is OP, so we can't presume to know all the facts

there is probably another side to the story here
should we believe OP just because she asked us first?

>>17614310

I'm echoing the post I was responding to, I didn't pick the words. And the sentiment was regarding general rape victims, not OP specifically.

>>17614329
Fine. My bad.

>>17614319

/adv/ is not a court of law, OP is responsible for her post and it's her decision whether or not to pursue the advice she's given based on her description of the scenario. The other side of the story doesn't matter outside of it's ability to produce superior advice to OP.

>>17613296
Stupid bitch. You have no case. The job won't belive you and won't fire him unless he's a spokes person for subway or some shit. I had a psycho ex that told my bosses i was abusive and a drug addict and they did nothing.

>>17614089

Donald?

OP, you're only going to create a bigger mess if you do something like this.
Go through the courts, take care of yourself as a priority, and if the system fails you then maybe you can think about petty revenge.
But by the time the system fails you, you'll probably have mellowed and will just it to be over so you can get on with your life. And if you act on revenge impulses, the mess is going to take a lot longer to go away, and you'll be stuck dealing with it for a lot longer than you'll want to be.

The point of revenge is to make things 'even', so that you're not a victim any more. By the very definition, you're stooping as low as the person who wronged you. And if that's what you want, that's your choice, but you can't really go through with that, and then turn around and ask the courts to treat you like a victim. You can't have it both ways.
You have to decide if this is a matter of a man having wronged you, or of two people who've wronged each other. I don't know if you grew up with siblings, but "he started it!" never flies.
It's not weakness to accept that you were wronged. You don't have to make him suffer to reclaim your strength.

Find a more constructive way to feel better.

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>>17614364
WAYNE! Visit Lambright.com if you want to learn more about my campaign.

>>17614335
so we should tell people how to make cyonide, on the basis that it's their responsibility if they do the wrong thing with it?

do you get what I'm saying here
we have a responsibility not to facilitate wrongdoing

>>17613276


>ahha, women can be real batches when they are turned down...

>I don't believe your story. Fingering? Please.

>>17613276
You stupid whore. You are going to UTTERLY RUIN a persons life. A man at that. As if society isn't hard enough on men already. If you do this to him he might as well be a dead man. Your stupid bitch ass will probably regret reporting him after he's been prosecuted for it. He just fingered you. He didnt hold you down or rape you. He just stuck his fingers in your cunt and you probably asked him to stop and he did. Fuck you lady. Seriously fuck you and all the other cunts for ruining mens lives over trivial shit like this. If you werent such a bitch you would probably talk to him and tell him it wasnt cool and that you are getting a restraiinig order against him and thats it. Dont ruin his entire life you stupid bitch

>>17614490
spoken like a true virgin autist

>>17614375
you look like a pedophile. no surprise you support rapists you creepy fuck.

just do it like on of dem terriarst
stalk and then go in for the win jason vorhezs styles

>>17613276
You are going to lose your case. I know you are upset, but you have no argument.
No one considered fingering someone to be rape. The charge is there because your best bet for any form of punishment is to get a lesser win than what your aim was.
His job wont care unless you win which you probable wont. Honestly unless hes admitting to it you really dont have a chance.

>>17614490
Lmao you're pathetic

I hope this guys entire life and work career is ruined.

>>17614525
>armchair lawyer from 4chins analysis

>>17614530
You dont need to be a lawyer to know that most rape victims, like the real ones or at least the ones where sex was had, lose their case and are ignored. OP literally has no chance here. I got the thing about overshooting charges from a real lawyer though.
Also when OP loses she will be counter sued for defamation of character because shes probably going to tell his job and talk about it on social media.

>>17614525
>No one considered fingering someone to be rape.

That's always been considered rape, if it's done without consent. Rape doesn't have to involve a penis. That's the law in most civilized nations, and it is not a new law at all

>>17614525
>No one considered fingering someone to be rape.
kek the stupidity of this thread is unnerving, the law specifically describes sodomy as a form of rape.

>>17613276
Has op reposted at all or is everyone falling for bait?

>>17613296
Did you ask him to stop? Did you touch, kiss or in any way give him an indication you were interested? (Not that any of that validates what he did, but i am curious to analyze on a legal level)

>>17614545
>>17614547
You should read up on a lot of what the law says and how its dismissed in court a lot. It phrases things as a maxim a lot. So that they can charge you if need be.

>>17614554
What country are you from?

>>17614389

That's your choice. People instruct anons on how to kill themselves all the time.
Any responsibility you feel is your own subjective sense of morality.
If you feel your ability to give good, moral advice hinges on hearing both sides of the story and acting as a mediator, you're going to be waiting a long fucking time for a thread to come along which facilitates that.

And I never said that we should just blindly accept an OP's WISHES, but we can accept their version of events. Eg, if someone was asking how to make cyanide to, let's say, kill their neighbour's annoying dog, we could instead advice "maybe you can move house, maybe you can talk to the neighbour, maybe this will have concequences that are too unpleasent for you to deal with" etc. Likewise, OP isn't asking instructions on how to ruin this guy's life, just if she should. Giving her reasons that she shouldn't is still directly giving her advice for her problem, and doesn't require any testimony from the accused. It's incredibly easy to take her story at face value and still say "that's a really bad idea."

>>17614555
US. I know what Im talking about because I had some vadalism charges thrown at me but that added a lot of assault charges. When I was freaking out at the list of charges thrown at me the lawyer explained this and sure enough, all the assault charges where thrown out of court because they werent actually the case and just "technically" it and I had to pay a small fine with nothing on my record. The charges are there so that if need be they can put you in jail.

>>17613329
Yeah if all you have is "he totally fingered me and I totally didn't consent to it", there's no real penetration, no force or bruises to show for it etc, only your word, and you go full insane psycho bitch and start running around calling RAAAAAPE it's going to make it all look like you're a crazy ex bitch who's just angry he didn't respond to your advances and are trying to make him pay for daring to turn you down with false bullshit accusations.

Especially if you send huffy emails about how he's A RAPIST - and then it turns out it's actually just about how you're claiming he fingered you, that's all, which he probably denies, and there's absolutely no evidence proving anything… well, it definitely doesn't make you look good, you know?

Also if the charges are dropped he'll probably go after you with a libel lawsuit. With good reason, it's sort of bad form to start screaming about things like that before the court process is going on. It'll just reflect very, very badly on you, like you're just making shit up in your desperate eagerness to ruin his life.

Well he definitely violated you. Yes you should persue it legally because he will do worse to someone else next time. What a creep!

>>17614490
>You are going to UTTERLY RUIN a persons life.
If he is guilty, then he deserves to have his life ruined. Well, no, he doesn't; if he is guilty of rape, then what he deserves is to have his life ended. But Furman v. Georgia (an otherwise fine decision, but it severely overreached on this point) being what it is, ruin will have to do.

Of course, of he is innocent, none of the above applies. This is literally what trials are for. Let them work.

>>17613367

Wayne get off of 4-chan we know about you.

>https://forum.encyclopediadramatica.se/threads/wayne-lambright-unemployed-anti-zionist-potus-hopeful.22900/

>https://kiwifarms.net/threads/wayne-lambright-waynes-world.8793/

>>17615256
>you deserve to have your life ruined for fingering someone while they're asleep
it's the wrong thing to do but not all rapes are created equal.

>>17615362
Not sure I agree. There is a certain degree of human pain great enough that it stops making any sense to compare anything beyond it. Rape crosses that line.

>>17615548
being fingered is considered foreplay and no one is going to disagree in a court of law.

>>17614375
Kill yourself faggot

>>17615598
That's simply not true.

If op has DNA evidence or even witnesses (the girlfriend who probably won't be happy her bf did this) and tells the court that he inserted his fingers inside her vagina while she was asleep, he could easily go to jail, or at least be put on some sexual offenders list.

>>17615548
>There is a certain degree of human pain great enough that it stops making any sense to compare anything beyond it.
Yeah and getting fingered a bit while you sleep does not reach up to that degree. It's like getting groped at a bar - it's disgusting, yes, and the guy is an asshole, yes, but it's not the same as a real rape, especially a violent one.
Different anon btw. I mean sure it's disgusting and there should be some repercussions but trying to equate it with actual rape is sort of appropriating or disrespecting the pain of actual rape survivors, trying to say that yeah I suffered the same way, which is utter bullshit

>>17615800
Penetration by any object or body part is considered rape in my state.

Not all rapes take place in some dark alley way by a stranger.

>>17615793
>he could easily go to jail
Definitely not happening
>at least be put on some sexual offenders list.
Probably will happen he if accepts the charges, but it wont be for rape.
>>17615809
>Penetration by any object or body part is considered rape in my state.
The law is only phrased that way so that if I shove giant dildos in you I can go to jail for rape. Fingering will never be considered rape. Try finding a case where someones been convicted of rape for fingering someone where they didnt actually rape the victim.

>>17615800

Okay, but what do you think goes through a guy's mind when he sneaks out of his girlfriend's room in the middle of the night to violate a sleeping girl? What kind of guy does a thing like that? You really think he wouldn't take it further if he thought he'd get away with it?

That's why his actions ARE legally considered rape. Because it's essentially the same violation of consent as the worst-case scenario rape you're describing. Women aren't safe around a guy like that. It'd be best for everyone if he ends up in jail.

>>17615800
So if I shoved my finger up your ass to try and stimulate your prostate without your permission, it is the same exact action as a passing slap on the butt? Really?

So I guess an ear flick is the same as punching against their ear?

>>17615847
>I cant understand degrees

>>17615837
Maybe he was inviting you to his place?

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>>17613276
>No, I'm not some sociopathic bitch who's out to ruin an innocent mans life.

Just because you regret getting it with this guy doesn't mean you have to cry rape. We all know you made this shit up to try and get support from 4chan but you're a whore so that ain't gonna happen. Next time say no before turning into a psycho degenerate bitch to try and ruin a gentleman's life.

Whore

>>17613339
Make sure you get Facebook messages or texts confirming that he did it without your consen! This will be crucial in court. Confront him about it. Make sure he explicitly acknowledges that you were asleep and had NOT consented.

>>17613296
Does your friend know?? She needs to know she could be a witness

This is funny as hell. OP has literally talked herself into believing she was raped but shes going to be laughed out of court. Id be surprised if there was even a trial.

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>>17613603
>>17613703
Pretty much, just imagine reversing the sexes.
>Sober man asleep on the couch
>Drunk woman comes up to him, starts jerking him off
>He wakes up, pushes her off and doesn't think anything more of it (rather than boo-hooing like OP)
>Police would now take her side because she was drunk

>>17613329
>>17613329
lol um yes, i think you should report this fucking creep. I would do it in front of all the kids at school too, id make a huge scene and rat him out on the entire campus, and let everyone know he's a disgusting piece of shit.

Fuck anyone defending this guy. What a nasty little shit, like you're so overpowered by sexual lust from your crooked penis that you felt the need to finger a woman while she was passed out and unconscious> and you also work at a college abnd more trhan likely you have all these gross repressed imagijned images of your students

>>17616159
>abnd more trhan likely you have all these gross repressed imagijned images of your students
Shit typing aside, I'm sure most teachers have sexual thoughts about some of their students from time to time. It would be unavoidable.

>>17613276
Go to the police, let them do their job. If he is convicted, they will know. If he is a registered sex offender they will know. You doing anything but that makes you look crazy, and could hurt your case.

>>17616208
>this fucking thread

/r9k/ and /pol/ need to fuck off and get advice from their respective cesspools instead of here.

Odds are you guys wouldn't even blink twice if Brock Turner came on here and said "some bitch is accusing me of raping her in an alley, which I totally didn't do after she was basically unconscious and I helped her into a pile of trash to sleep. I took her pants off to make her comfy, of course. I'm not a savage." and post cap the thread with sympathy.

I feel like OP probably got the advice she needed. Since you filled charges, get a protective order and wait for things to play out. Tell your friend, of course. If all else fails, you can kill the relationship. Small recompense, but you know.