You may not like it, but this is what peak Type-Moon performance

that'd be FGO though

>>162260465
Haha get the hell out of here.

>>162260372
Fate peaked with F/Z. F/GO is the puss coming out of its rotting corpse

>>162260465
Nope

It's peaked with MTSP Rin doujinshi series and still lives on

Oops sorry, I fucking dropped my Kimi to all over this shit thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvbaM-URygs

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>Fate for brainlets
yeah nah

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>>162260372
I'm pretty sure you meant this scene.

>>162264850
>shirou gets beaten the fuck up while turning into a sword
>lives only because kirei's time runs out before his
great scene

>>162264850
Which episode was this from?

>>162262883
Fuck off moefag

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>>162265632
Last episode of heavens feel

>>162262883
This. Every other answer is irrelevant

>>162266547
So I won't get to experience it for like 4 years, bummer.

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>>162260372
No this is

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>>162266734
Is that what foreknowledge is like?

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>>162260372

>>162266734
No one writes slowly going insane from a first person POV like Nasu does

>>162260372
>kissanime
>gif
Fucking kill yourself.

>>162266161
Fuck off edgelord

>>162260372
I'd shoot her with my dick instead desu. Right into her mouth. With semen.

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peaked right here

>>162260372
Zero is the only good thing to come out of Fate, that and Strange Fake. Fate is at it's best when not handled by Nasu, or at least when he just gives the general outline and lets others fill in the details.

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>>162264850
Kirei was the best part about heaven's feel

>>162270877
ALL OF FATE IS EDGY

>>162264850
I never liked Shirou as a character.

>>162260372
>kissanime
>gif
Looks like bottom of the barrel performance to me. Neck yourself.

>>162272951
I agree with this, but mostly because (after re-reading F/SN and witnessing the birth of cashcow F/GO) Nasu's element is in two things:
>setting up a believable world with many rules and guidelines on how the inner workings happen
>and fucking it all up with waifufaggotry
People talk about "well FSN wouldn't have sold without waifus and sex so Nasu compromised his vision--" but FSN was written with a romantic seinen feel. It wasn't just waifus and sex, it's embedded in the plot from the very first route. The endgame villain in the Fate route is a golden pimp who wants to fuck your lady and his priestly McDaddy.

If you take out all the romantic subtext, focus on a core group of human characters and their servants, and write the story while playing up the premise of this Historical Battle Royale like it's a fucking Deadliest Warrior book... then you get Fate/Zero. It's not perfect. But it gives you a Grail War, a very serviceable and competent Grail War, with only a few questionable buchimoments.
Like Deermud's speech and all the bullshit about the evils of the world.

>>162260372
>Kissanime
Why is this allowed?

>>162274386
I never understood why Gil was so obsessed with Saber in the first place, or why he doesn't just dismiss her as being beneath him

>>162274386
>setting up a believable world with many rules and guidelines on how the inner workings happen
And then contradict all of that with plot armour and miraculous coincidences

>>162274588
That's pretty clearly explained, and makes sense for both of their characters. Maybe a little overemphasized on Gil's part.

What was retarded was shoe horning in that retarded connection between Caster and Saber. She already has Gil and Lancer focusing on her. Team Caster was the weakest part of Zero by far, and they take up like 5 entire episodes. Gay

>>162274386
Then you get Prototype, where it's not a war at all, since one bitch is pulling all the strings

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>>162274810
It had the coolest payoff though.

>>162266725
How shit do you have to be to take 4 years to get through Heaven's Feel?

>>162274987
I'm never going to get through it. I dropped it because it was boring and juvenile

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>>162275056
>Heaven's Feel
>juvenile

>>162274193
>doesn't like Shirou
Are you mayhaps a secondary?

>>162272951
Let me guess, a secondary? Or perhaphs a "hurr durr muh adult MC" edgelord?

>>162274386
>Let the Grail be cursed! Let the wish it grants bring disaster! And when you fall into the pits of hell... remember the rage of Diarmuid!"
>questionable

What are you talking about? Those are the best last words to ever appear in an anime.

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>>162274386
>But it gives you a Grail War, a very serviceable and competent Grail War
Heres the thing though, no one gives two shits about the grail war, that's not why Fate is remembered and discussed every fucking day. When you focus on the ''grail war'', you get zero and apoc, which is just a bunch of boring servants fighting and people having edgy deaths with no substance. You'll notice there's a bajillion shows in japan about historical figures fighting and shit but they never reach even 1/4 of the popularity of fate. Because if you just want to watch fights you can watch literally anything else.

>>162275779
>no one gives two shits about the grail war

Then why is Zero so popular? I didn't even start with Zero and I came for the grail war. Not for the waifus or for the high school hijinks, though unlike with many they didn't bother me either. Strip that away, call it Zero, and you have a lot of political intrigue, unexpected tactics, and a cast of morally grey characters. A bit like Game of Thrones.

>>162272951
>Zero is the only good thing to come out of Fate
Zero and Prillya*

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>>162266734
>ancient memes

[X] GENUFLECT

>>162275978
Gay me of downs is an endless sequence of random gore and porn with no substance or character. Zero is edgy, but it's a far cry from that.

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>>162275978
>Then why is Zero so popular?
It's popular with normalfags and ironic weebs because no scary ''animeness'', because it has a '''''''''darker'''''''' atmosphere with typical Urobuchi edgyness, and the illusion of depth by having a cast of morally grey characters....none of which do anything and you don't spend any time with at all so there's no one to give a shit about anyone other than waver.. It's themes are a retreading and dumbing down of the same from F/SN, especially Kerry being Shirou for brainlets. It's easily digestible is why I'd say it's popular.

Now in comparison to most fateshit today i'd say Zero is okay, but it definitely set us down the dark park of taking nothing of what made Fate good, and milking it.

>>162276498
This

>>162276498
>Fate
>Edgy and superficial

>HF
>

>>162276498
The Fate series is full of fun characters that don't really have any depth, lots of bullshit pseudo-philosophy, and some fanservice. The worst kind of Fatefags are the ones that insist that their preferred slice of the franchise is good and that another is bad.

>>162275180
Shirou is a shit character in the original VN, and the fact that he was portrayed poorly in the original anime doesn't make him good.

>>162278581
hey stop. You don't want to trigger the Shirou fags.

>>162275779
I'm glad there's an omniscient alien in this thread capable of speaking for everyone in the world.

Your post reads less like an opinion and more like a condescending putdown; "quit enjoying something for the wrong reasons, no one likes it for that reason". If you wanna have a discussion, you should work on your manners.

>>162278916
But in a way he is right, the grail war was simply a back drop for various themes found in the routes. The ideal, the contradictions of the ideal, and abandoning the ideal.

Now clearly alot of people like the grail war for awesome battles, but that isnt why you would have gotten into the series back in the early 2000's
Even in the Zero light novel, it was still more about the character's ideals and internal conflicts rather than the fighting

>>162280235
Read my original post though. I said Fate/Zero gives you a competent (not perfect) Grail War. But it focuses on the human characters and their servants, and the story brings up plenty of nods to work with the premise of legendary figures in a ridiculous stew pot (the Great Debate scenes, Caster's Saberface obsession, Lancelot and Arthur).

I don't wanna suck its dick until it falls off, especially since it's not THAT great (I didn't particularly enjoy many of the Kiritsugu or Gilgamesh scenes, which go on forever), but I can at least pat it on its back for doing something with the premise. Something that F/SN couldn't, what with it being (mostly) first-person narrative and focusing so much on Shirou and his relationship with everyone.

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What's not to like in Fate Zero honestly?

It's so much better than FSN with dogshit retards and teenager Shirou who's legit the worst MC of all TM works.

>>162278581
>Shirou is a shit character in the original VN

Can you at least explain your reasoning or is this yet another empty drivel of a secondary?

>>162271744
Oh shit why is this killing me?

>>162280641
He's too dumb. His brain ceiling is naruto level characters.

>>162280608
A manchild who acts like he's doing the right thing as the MC (Shirou is fine in comparison because he's a literal child and develops over the course of VN)
Shitty direction
Several important scenes were cut from the LN making certain characters like Kirei appear one-dimensional
Fighting choreography is generally "cool camera spins with character spins and tons of filters"
Kiritsugu vs Kirei was animated by R07

>>162280608
>who's legit the worst MC of all TM works.
Yeah because Kinomoto Sakura ripoff "Illya" is so much better

>>162280608
>What's not to like in Fate Zero honestly?
1. Butchered Saber's character in a chivalryfag (when she wasn't like that in her life) for the sake of "le epic breakdown"
2. Most masters are dumb sans Kirei and Kiritsugu. You talked about Shirou but Tokiomi, Kariya, Kayneth and Ryuunosuke all had the depth of a puddle and they were incredibly retarded.
3. Waver's story is a typical coming of age story that is overrated by fans
4. Rider is an extremely overrated character
5. Anime adaptation created one of the most cancerous parts of the Fate fanbase

>It's so much better than FSN with dogshit retards and teenager Shirou who's legit the worst MC of all TM works.

All masters and Servants in F/SN are more competent than their F/Z counterparts. Even Shirou who begins as an inexperienced mage, frequently rises up to the occasion.

He's also objectively among the best MCs in Type-moon

>>162280760
>nardo

u wot

>>162280856
>All masters and Servants in F/SN are more competent than their F/Z counterparts. Even Shirou who begins as an inexperienced mage, frequently rises up to the occasion.

Don't make me laugh, Shirou has such a thick plot armor it's not even funny. Competent my ass.

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>>162280856
3 through 5 aren't the show's faults. Are you daft? Are you some sort of a fucking idiot?

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>>162275779
>You'll notice there's a bajillion shows in japan about historical figures fighting

Like what?

>>162280760
Except that's not the case? He isn't a proper magus so he has difficulty understanding the proper aspects of magecraft but that really isn't important because his magic is all oriented towards one area that he understands perfectly.

If you're referring to the times where he rushes recklessly into danger that's not because he's dumb either. He's just self sacrificial to the extreme, he literally thinks his life is worth less than that of any other person.

>>162280902
They're all related to Fate/zero and the guy doesn't like these. The question was "what's not to like".

>>162280902
Technically not but what I'm saying is that the show has parte that are just average but are frequently overhyped.
>>162280893
You do know the VN has over 40 bad endings while Shirou only lives in 4 of the 5 "good" endings right?

It's far more likely for Emiya Shirou to die in than to win it.

And yeah, he's incredibly competent if he manages to live until the end of the HGW.
>It's thanks to him that Saber defeats Gilgamesh in Fate
>Defeats Gilgamesh in UBW
>Projects the weapon necessary for Rin to overcome Sakura in HF
>Suports Rider who would lose to Saber Alter if not for him
>Dies to destroy the grail in HF normal
Etc

>>162274810
How is it explained? He's just obsessed with her because it's supposed to make the player feel threatened that another guy wants to fuck their waifu

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>>162266819
Foreknowledge was one of the best parts in that visual novel.

It's going to be fucking amazing when all the Fate/Zero secondaries see the Heaven's Feel movies and stop talking about their autistic brainlet edge simulator.

Fact: everyone who says F/Z is better than F/SN is a secondary.

>>162262354
Truest words ever spoken in Fate threads

>>162280608
>Shirou who's legit the worst MC
You see, this is what everyone who hasn't read the VN always says.

At first, he looks no different from everyone else. From his clothes, to the way he operates, can honestly be seen as tedious, on a common note. But instead of saying misconception of him being mundane that makes him exponentially more fascinating.

On the inside, Shirou is damaged. The connection between logic and morality has been completely shattered. Now, he can't tell the difference between the two and eventually this leads to further complications in his state of mind. The foundation of his complexity evolves from the previous war. Kiritsugu extracted Avalon from Irisviel and later implanted it inside Shirou to prevent his death. In Arthurian legend, the embodiment of Avalon itself is utopia, so when he instill Avalon it not only reverts Shirou's physical self, but reconstructs his psychological process as a whole.

At this point, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that Shirou is similar to a blank canvas. As a coping mechanism, he's forced to create multiple complexes that allows him to continue in his stride. Martyr complex, hero complex, and survivor's complex, not to mention his PTSD.

In the visual novel, Shirou introduces his martyr complex where he catapults himself into danger to feed his own psychological need. Logic demands that you get out of the way, but he does it. There's several situations where this happens throughout the novel and eventually it might bring you to question his intelligence. But I think it's less of him being ignorant, but more of him being obstinate. Shirou is actually a very smart person.

When Rin tries to incapacitate Shirou, he critically thinks out every possible option in the situation. Analyzing his location, searching for objects that can be used as a weapon, making sure he has the advantage, and so on.

I really recommend reading the visual novel so you can learn more about Shirou's character.

>>162281112
>You do know the VN has over 40 bad endings while Shirou only lives in 4 of the 5 "good" endings right?
AND? How does it justify the ending where he lives and defends Gilgamesh, for instance, with a totally retarded plot armor?

>>162281188
Gilgamesh wants to collect things. Saber happens to have a few things that he lacks (Excalibur) and her constant refusal of him irks him a lot which makes him want to get her by force if needed. However he'd eventually grow bored of her if she submitted to him

>>162281312
It's going to be fucking amazing when retards stop talking about "secondaries" in a 20 year old franchise like it makes them special.

Fact: everyone who says "secondary" i

>>162281369
>t. filthy secondary

>>162260372
>kissanime
>shitty meme
>.gif
Fuck off.

>>162281352
>You see, this is what everyone who hasn't read the VN always says.

LOL.

Kill yourself retarded Shirou-shitter.

>>162275581
Rider/Waver's relationship and story are the best thing to come out of the entire Fate series other than the porn/

>>162281312
They won't because their logic is generally "mature anime for mature people like myself should have mature characters". Shirou is still a kid and ufotable can fuck up the movies with their ever amateur direction.

I love Zero vs Fate threads. The autism is just so entertaining.

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>>162281419
Skub fuckin rules dude.

I think F/Z is a great companion piece to F/SN, as a further exploration of the whole "how far does being a hero gets you" thing, but I don't know how people can be so adamant in liking it whilst hating F/SN despite both of them exploring pretty much the exact same thing with what might as well be the same main character.

Seriously, I'm baffled by people who say how much better or worse Kerry is than Shirou, they're both like, very, very similar people.

>>162281360
The explanations for that are in the Visual Novel AND in the Ufotable anime. Are you fucking blind?

Gilgamesh being his arrogant self + UBW being a counter to GOB + Shirou having Rin's mana and the knowledge he got from Archer = RIP Gil.

Typemoon is full of these circumstantial fights. If you are a shonentard who likes battles with "straight power levels" you're better off leaving.

>>162281399
Tiger/Illya have much better and funnier dynamics compared to your "wimpy one-dimensional faggot meets a cool guy and becomes a cool guy" generic coming of age story.
Shirou and Kotomine's relationship in HF is better too.

>>162281390
Not an argument.

>>162281399
>A typical simple coming of age story
>The best thing
Thanks for proving me right, zerofag >>162280856

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>>162281419
Wait for Dies Irae anime. Thousand shitposters and degenerates from /vn/ will be shitposting about DI without even reading original VN

I'm glad the Americans woke up. Now it's a true shitshow.

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Just imagine Subahibi anime threads

>>162281595
m8 it's the afternoon over here, burgers have been up for hours already

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>>162281576
My body is ready. I have already come to accept the fact that the anime would produce shitposting and war. I haven't been this excited since the Danganronpa 3 threads.

>>162281576
>/vn/
I thought this was a new board and got really excited but now I'm sad.

>>162281576
Is that actually good by the way? Or is it just hyped up by wehraboos?

>>162274193
Faggot

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>>162281815
It's pretty good, just not for everyone. If you like Hellsing and Fate, there's a 75% chance you will like Dies Irae. Just remember that the VN is quite chuuni. Also it has a disappointing first route, the main villain doesn't even appear in it. Keep that in mind.

>>162280557
Yes, it does something Stay Night couldn't do, and wasn't trying to.

Stay night gives you three layers, and as you peel back each layer you find that themes in the last layer are being subverted.

Zero gives you one layer, you know its a farce from the start. They are almost all clearly in a whirlpool of self destruction. And while it does what it sets out to do pretty well, thats all.

Stay night throws you into a world were you are out of place, and it works its way through the world while exploring various contradictory themes.

Its not perfect but it gives you an amazing experience.

>>162281815
>Is that actually good by the way?
>one of Holy Trinity of chuuni VN well acclaimed by japs as kamige

>>162281485
I dont get it either, I like both. I think it has a lot to do with people not reading them but watching them

If your reading them you see how similar they are, even if the writing is stylistically different

>>162282184
>>162281485
It's meme. Kids pretending to hate F/Z after ufotable anime because of secondaries. Subculture war nothing more

>>162282182
>Holy Trinity
I'm curious, what do you think the other two are?

>>162281488
And youre so idiot to fall for the Muh arrogance and UBW bullshit..

Put your damn brain in on and think about it for a moment.

>>162282335
>youre so idiot
Holy shit.

>>162282329
Muramasa and Fate

>>162282535
B-But Fate isn't chuuni. I'm the bone of my sword.

>>162281312
imagine bragging about reading through hundreds of hours of ero-VN
y i k e s

>>162281815
It's intentionally bad therefore it's kamige

>>162282770
why it's bad?

I started fate with zero and ubw came out I was just like wtf shit show am I watching. Was damn boring.

>>162280967
Wasn't talking about Shirou.

>>162260372
> Type-Moon peak
> posts story by Urubochi
> is actually right
LOL

>>162281576
>Reading steam reviews cause i'm interested
>''Ever wondered what Fate/Stay Night would have been if it had a good writer behind it?''
wew

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>>162264850
Objectively wrong anon. Its a simple mistake to make, however.

>>162282335
Its not bullshit Gil's arrogance in battle is something established from the first time you see him in battle.

At the reality marble his hinted at from the beginning.

You might not like either of those writing choices but they didn't come out of nowhere.

>>162282756
imagine bragging about talking about a story you didn't read

y i k e s

>>162281576
I am about to confront Sakurai on the roof in chapter 4 and damn is it shitty. I could get hype over Hellsing but this is too much for me.
I am still gonna finish it and it probably gets better but up to this point the pointless interludes of evil dudes wanking themselfs for how evil and nihilistic they are is pretty hard to stomach.
Also I did not check who has routes, but Kasumi already won, the others can fuck off.

>Make a setting with cool stuff outside of the Servant/Grail War that's your initial focus
>Get popular enough to get several spinoffs and explore other aspects of the setting
>MORE GRAIL WARS, MORE SERVANTS, HAVE SOME ILLYA WHILE YOU'RE AT IT

I just want some Magi doing weird magus things.

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You may not like it, but this is what peak Type-Moon performance looks like.

>>162283433
You never was in theater before do you?

>>162283194
Gil is simply not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Is any of the spinoff material worth looking at?

>>162283238
But I'm not bragging and I'm talking about one I watched kiddo

>>162283523
I missed when the HGW was just an obscure ritual from the far east. There's a legit interesting universe outside of it, I'm super curious to see what people do in the clock tower, for example.

>>162283798
That's like watching a movie and criticizing the book its based on

>>162283523
This. Less grail wars, more shit like KNK.

>>162284052
Its your own fault for assuming I'm talking about the book when I've made it clear I'm referring to the movie.

>>162281576
Is the h-patch out yet?

>>162260372
>Zero
>Type-Moon
>Nasu
hahaha, you sad fuck

>>162260372
I like both.
Zero Is more mature and UBW feels pretty gay. But both are above any seasonal anime out there.

>>162284531
End of September.

Is there still no HF movie released yet? It's been years

>>162280797
>manchild
This is not the word you're looking for. Kiritsugu had a childish goal but he's far from immature. A manchild is someone who's an adult but still acts like a petulant child. Kiritsugu stopped being that as soon as he shot his father

>>162285235
Literally next month.

>>162285903
>Only next month in theaters
>it's only the first movie

Why did it take so much time?
Seriously, there was enough time between the announcement and the release for TM to turn into complete shit.

>>162285328
Kiritsugu keeps using "Boku" to refer to himself for a reason.

>>162286616
Doesn't make him a manchild in the colloquial sense, it just shows that he hasn't emotionally progressed from the point after he developed his moral system by killing his father.

>>162276066
haha epic win for the internets