Give me a reason to hate this film. Of course nothing can top

>>162058904
It created more questions then what the preview promised to answer.

>>162058904
Eh, it's ok, at least anno tried something "different"

I could give you several, but regardless of how you criticize the lack of quality and believability in the flick, one major problem remains that's good enough reason for anyone to hate it:

It was never a serious attempt at film-making in the first place. I don't mean that it's commercial or simplistic, like e.g Marvel's super-hero movies. I mean that it's a series made for one reason and one reason only, to get the viewer to idolize the director's favorite characters from the original, and think less of those the director has a grudge against. It's otaku propaganda.

In my eyes, it doesn't even qualify as being a film, it's the lowest of the low in moving pictures. It's like porn that pretends it isn't porn, if you understand.

Worthless piece of shit movie that didn't tell me anything interesting in 2 hours, a complete waste of time. It might be one of the first piece of entertainment that felt truly empty. It's like I listened to white noise for 2 hours.

tfw still havent seen the rebuilds

>>162058904
I honestly dont know why people hated this so much

>>162058904
The whole premise doesnt make sense at all, and its just a fanservice movie.

>>162062731
Because it's a crappy movie made to pander to Asuka and Kaworu fan degenerates?

File: Q.jpg (370KB, 1170x1707px) Image search: [Google]

370KB, 1170x1707px

>>162058904

>>162061254
It was awful in camrip form but the most astounding thing is that I rewatched it twice to make sure I didn't miss something and the movie only kept getting worse with each rewatch.

>>162058904
>Asukafags mad about Shinji choosing Rei over her.
>Reifags mad about Rei being nothing but a shell of her previous apperance in 2.22.
>Both are also mad over prolonged Kawrou scenes.
Don't listen too the waifufags it is by far the best rebuild.

>>162062842
Same here, except I avoided spoiling myself with the camrip. I watched it again afterwards, and the whole thing just got dumber and dumber.

>>162062881
I always kinda hoped that was the joke.

>>162063041
Kaworufags are the lowest of the low - no joke.

I'm glad to see it moving things forward and not just being a retelling with occasional barely-above-easter-egg level nods towards continuity, but fundamentally it needed to be an episodic series, not a movie. I mean, the mere fact that it's something genuinely new means that it does manage itself better than the first two in that regard, which until the ending were basically just Greatest Hits scene compilations that I'm pretty sure would have made zero sense if I didn't already know the story and who everyone was, but it still was constantly just crying out for plot downtime for world building and focused development of more than one character, especially with the 14-years-after-Near-Third-Impact aspect that's thrown in and then barely explored. That's Eva's big problem, I think - it's too big commercially to ever be a TV series again, but it's also not suited artistically to being a movie series.

I liked Rei Q, though, fite me. Kaworu's overwrought nonsense can go fuck itself; the scene where Asuka makes Q realize she wants to live is probably the most powerful in the whole thing, even if that isn't saying very much by itself. I'd be perfectly happy if Shinji just stayed non-responsive through all of 3.0+1.0 and the whole focus was just on Q's developing self-concept and Asuka.

>>162058904
The characters behave in an illogical and artificial manner for the sake of a forced and retarded plot.

>>162063598
Dumb post.
>I liked Rei Q, though, fite me. [...]; the scene where Asuka makes Q realize she wants to live is probably the most powerful in the whole thing

So it's such a powerful scene that literally NOBODY except you offers it even a second thought, not even in any fandom depiction or even topic? If you look at it, the scene you describe doesn't even exist! Asuka doesn't make Rei Q realize anything here because Rei Q never had any dillemma about living or dying in the first place! It's a scene that's there for ONE reason, to have some "Asuka" be condescending towards some "Rei".

Stop spreading your lying filth in the eva community please. You're on par with shippers.

>>162063840
Getting mad won't bring your girlfriend back, Shinji.

>>162063977
Making quips wont make your blatant 3.33-apologism any less stupid, Ritsuko.

>>162064038
The positive things about 3.33 in that post:

1) It technically doesn't suffer as badly from constrained to a movie format as two other bad movies that preceded it
2) I liked one of the characters that people who obsess over not muh Rei II as much as Shinji does don't like

>>162064202
I contend that both the points are nonsense. First one is obviously wrong because both 1 and 2 manage to get something done by the end of their runtime, without becoming utterly unbelievable. Especially stupid is that point, because the third rebuild is only 90 minutes long!

Evangelion is NOT too big for a movie series. You just need to spend your time well - something 3.33 didn't by effectively discarding anything with depth and instead focusing on pandering to otaku. The whole "constrained" argument is and always will be, bullshit.

The second point was debunked here: >>162063840
and isn't even a real point, it's like saying Evangelion is good because Pen-Pen is in it. It's a shallow, dumb, and in your case probably fake personal reason anyway that's being paraded around as "criticism".

"I liked Rei Q" is not criticism, it's just trolling.

>>162058904
Is boring.

>>162058904
All the rebuilds are shit in comparison to the original material, but this is the best of the 3.

File: eva 3.0.png (283KB, 896x2600px) Image search: [Google]

283KB, 896x2600px

Here it is OP

>>162058904
The writers spent so much time rewriting eva so that asuka looked better than Rei that it became a contrived mess that made no sense.

>>162064780
0/10

>>162064364
>First one is obviously wrong because both 1 and 2 manage to get something done by the end of their runtime, without becoming utterly unbelievable.
Yes, they retrod a bunch of popular scenes from the original with prettier animation and less character and plot development because who cares, it's Eva, everyone already knows the characters and plot. The only meaningful novelty was, as I already said, the ending.

>Especially stupid is that point, because the third rebuild is only 90 minutes long!
It attempts to do far less. The first two Rebuilds have to try to summarize an entire two-cour series, whereas 3.33, being wholly new, had the benefit of being able to choose a shorter story to tell. It still failed to give most of its new or changed elements more than the most cursory development, of course, but that alone means I have to acknowledge that it's technically closer to being able to do so than either of the first two.

>Evangelion is NOT too big for a movie series.
Assertion is not an argument. Even EoE, the one that did manage to work, only did so by hanging off the back of the TV series and assuming that everyone watching would already know the basics from that - which worked, certainly, but makes it hard to introduce wholly novel elements, which any series needs to progress. The others are all poor, and all for the same fundamental reason - they don't have the time to introduce and develop all of the characters and plot points a series like Eva needs to, nor do they have the benefit of episode transitons to hide shifts in focus that a TV series can get away with but would leave a movie feeling incoherent. That's pretty decent evidence for "Eva doesn't work well as a movie series" from where I'm standing.

>The second point was debunked here:
No, that's just you saying that according to [citation needed], other people don't "offer even a second thought" to the scene with Q choosing to eject therefore it doesn't exist. I liked her; deal with it.

>>162065452
This:
>Yes, they retrod a bunch of popular scenes from the original with prettier animation and less character and plot development because who cares, it's Eva, everyone already knows the characters and plot. The first two Rebuilds have to try to summarize an entire two-cour series, whereas 3.33, being wholly new, had the benefit of being able to choose a shorter story to tell.
is obviously wrong. The first two are NOT "obliged" to recount the entire series. If you take your head out of your ass, you'd see that it didn't do or try doing that eithter.

>It still failed to give most of its new or changed elements more than the most cursory development, of course, but that alone means I have to acknowledge that it's technically closer to being able to do so than either of the first two.
Which is obviously wrong, because the third one does nothing in terms of development for these new elements. What's more, arguing that the development in the first two are "introductory" is also a non-element considering they are the de facto introduction of these elements. The other two did far more, and that's a fact.


>Even EoE, the one that did manage to work, only did so by hanging off the back of the TV series and assuming that everyone watching would already know the basics from that - which worked, certainly, but makes it hard to introduce wholly novel elements, which any series needs to progress.

Sorry but this is a non-argument. EoE is a continuation not a whole work unto itself. Stop making bogus comparisons, loser. Facts are, and you cannot deny this, that with four movies of content, they have more than enough time to produce a story. Claiming anything else is just discounting the whole history of cinema.

>>162065452
>>162065882
>No, that's just you saying that according to [citation needed], other people don't "offer even a second thought" to the scene with Q choosing to eject therefore it doesn't exist. I liked her; deal with it.

Bullshit. You don't even have the intellectual capacity to know what liking something means. Your whole reason for apparently liking Rei Q is fake, as it was debunked earlier:

Claim: You claimed it gave Rei Q a reason to live and for this it was "powerful".
Fact that disproves your claim: Rei Q had no dillemma about living or dying. Not in that moment, not earlier.

Your claim is so bullshit, and so easily observable as bullshit because literally no one gives a fuck. If this was even a third as powerful as you suggested, there would have been an observable reaction. Which there never was. Because this is how bad 3.33 is, you literally have to make up fake personal reasons for liking it.

>b-but I liked Rei Q!
So? You're either a troll, a poser, or a contrarian. Take your pick.

>>162065452
>>162065882
>>162066112
tl;dr

rebuild had with four movies more than enough time to tell a fleshed out EVA story
rebuild 1 & 2 are the only of the rebuilds that actually work with it's characters
rebuild 1 & 2 are the only of the rebuilds that ended up telling a believable story
rebuild 3 deliberately gave up on telling a story in order to pander to otaku like you

File: asuka cooking.jpg (243KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 1920x1080px

>>162066253
But it is 2 that panders too otakus and 3 does the opposite of that. That is why you love 2.22 and hate 3.33.
And 1 is almost exactly just ep1-6.

>>162065882
>...you'd see that it didn't do or try doing that eithter.
The story beats were identical until the finale. Oh, sure, it fiddled around with Asuka being slightly different or Mari showing up and doing very little, but until Tsubasa wo Kudasai it's Eva: Again But It's A Movie Now.

>Which is obviously wrong...
I already said it failed to develop them. It just suffers from that less because it gave itself less TO (fail to properly) develop.

>EoE is a continuation not a whole work unto itself.
That's my point. EoE worked because it was able to piggyback off the TV series and so sidestep the need to cram in all of the characters and relationships and histories into a movie. Which worked fine for what it was - a continuation building on an already-existing framework - but at some point a series needs to start introducing wholly new material. Rebuild failed because as its title suggests, it wanted to rebuild the whole thing from that start, and in the rush to get the plot to where it needed to be within two movies, it failed to give either the old or new elements, like Mari, sufficient development to stand alone.

>with four movies of content, they have more than enough time to produce a story.
Movies don't get to release all at once. Four movies to make one coherent and original Eva story? Sure, I could see that. But seen one-by-one years apart, they'd likely be messes.

>You claimed it gave Rei Q a reason to live
No, it showed her realizing that she herself had a desire to live. Or to let Asuka stop what was happening, or whatever. That's not important; what I liked was her realizing she had a desire of her own instead of being a passive tool or trying to act like Rei II.

>If this was even a third as powerful as you suggested, there would have been an observable reaction.
This just in: emotions are subjective. Who knew?

>You're either a troll, a poser, or a contrarian.
Or I just have a different feelings than you about a single character?

>>162067056
WRONG.

The first and second Rebuilds are before anything else, believable stories with developing characters. They are stories, movies, that everyone can enjoy and understand regardless of tendency towards obsession.

But 3.33 on the other hand, is a movie that ONLY otaku enjoy. A non-otaku viewer just shrugs and 3.33, seeing little more than nonsense.

The hardcore otaku historically hated parts of NGE and Rebuild 1 and 2 because - get this - it was eva for normies. 3.33 brings Rebuild straight into otaku territory with no way back.

So you like 3.33 and hate 2.22 because you are an obsessive unhealthy otaku.

>>162067423
>The story beats were identical until the finale. Oh, sure, it fiddled around with Asuka being slightly different or Mari showing up and doing very little

Stop embarassing yourself. Youre admitting it does different and then denying it seconds later. You have no argument. You are even missing the actual point here:

1 and 2 did NOT cover the entire 2-cour series like you claimed earlier. You are a lying loser.

>I already said it failed to develop them. It just suffers from that less because it gave itself less TO (fail to properly) develop.
Which is a failure greater than those of the previous. Not only did it fail developing what little it had, there WAS nothing to develop. It was just otaku pandering.

>That's my point.
No. you have no point. You bring up EoE where it doesnt fit. You are ruining your own case here moron. Thats how dumb you are.

>Movies don't get to release all at once. Four movies to make one coherent and original Eva story? Sure, I could see that. But seen one-by-one years apart, they'd likely be messes.

Says who? Thats not an argument, just bullshit.

>No, it showed her realizing that she herself had a desire to live. Or to let Asuka stop what was happening, or whatever. That's not important; what I liked was her realizing she had a desire of her own instead of being a passive tool or trying to act like Rei II.

Again: WRONG. There is no such development in this at all. Nor is there ANY indication from either the series or the previous movies that is how Rei II would act.

Your entire argument is built on a sandcastle of lies.

>muh feelings
Your feelings are a lie, and your opinions are based on falsehoods. Grow up.

>>162067486
I don't hate any parts of NGE and I don't hate 2.22.
But the only reason I like 2.22 is because I love NGE and I feel that 3.33 brings something new which is why I prefer it too 2.22.

>>162067730
I dont care what you think. But the rhetoric from people criticizing the Rebuilds as a whole has ALWAYS been that 1.11 and 2.22 was ligthearted Evangelion for the masses.

Keep in mind that these critics are little more than butthurt otaku that now enjoy 3.33 because it twisted Evangelion into being pure ota-pandering.

>but I FEEL
Not really an argument. Hypothetical question: What if I showed you that it didnt bring anything new, what would you do then?

Because both you or I know, that the whole "but it did something NEW" isnt an opinion people honestly have. Its something they say so that the real reason they like 3.33 wont label them as shallow otaku. Facts are, people like 3.33 purely because they are waifufags of either kaworu or asuka, or the generic extreme die-hard eva fan archetype who buys EVERYTHING eva and defends it with his/her life.

So stop faking it, please. Be honest.

>>162067730
The only thing 3.33 brought that was "new" was the fact that it was bad. Evangelion was never bad like this.

>>162067658
>Youre admitting it does different and then denying it seconds later
By that token, it's different solely by virtue of not having literally the same animation frames as the TV series. If you're content with minor, undeveloped and changes to a stripped-to-the-bone version of a story you've already seen that don't change any of the actual story, more power to you, I guess. I'm not.

>1 and 2 did NOT cover the entire 2-cour series like you claimed earlier.
Well, you're certainly right there, it didn't. It rushed past huge amounts of development in order to get the bare minimum necessary for the finale to happen on schedule in place.

>Which is a failure greater than those of the previous.
If you like. But it's a failure of writing or direction, not of the constraints of a movie release, which is what I'm talking about. Something like 3.33 might have worked, given better conditions; the first two never could have.

>You bring up EoE where it doesnt fit
How does it not fit? I'm talking about why Eva movies don't work, yet EoE is an Eva movie that did work, so I have to dissect why it is different.

>Thats not an argument, just bullshit.
Your reasoning was that the movie series isn't just one movie, it's four, and so it's not as tightly constrained by the format as I argue. But even with four movies, they still have to be more-or-less complete stories in their own right, because unlike a TV series, you don't get the next one the week after. One story of Eva's complexity in four movies' length? Sure. But what would be needed is four stories, and so either you'd get the equivalent of of one really long movie chopped into four pieces, none of which would be satisfying on its own, or what we did get - rushed shadows of what Eva stories should be, simplified in order to fit complete arcs into neat, movie-length chunks.

>There is no such development in this at all
She asks how Rei Ayanami would act, and only ejects when Asuka asks what SHE wants to do instead.

>>162058904
It's fucking boring and EVA-02 turns into a dog

>>162068294
>By that token, it's different solely by virtue of not having literally the same animation frames as the TV series. If you're content with minor, undeveloped and changes to a stripped-to-the-bone version of a story you've already seen that don't change any of the actual story, more power to you, I guess. I'm not.

Who cares what you are content with? You are so self-centered its disgusting. Like it or not, it remains the most solid portion of the story. You are only content when pandered to.

>It rushed past huge amounts of development in order to get the bare minimum necessary f
More nonsense. It had the exact amount development necessary from its then necessary characters. This is why no one gives the first two movies shit for having unrealistic or unbelievable characters, like they do for 3.33 or other badly written stories.

>But it's a failure of writing or direction,
No you bumbling fool, its BOTH. They determine the movies length.

>How does it not fit?
Because its an ENDING movie, not an actual story in itself like Rebuild is? Can you PLEASE stop being retarded now?

Random timeskip.
The characters acted like retards.
New characters don't do anything.
Chins, chins everywhere.
Shinji might not even be the real Shinji.
Rei Q is even more autistic than the Reis.
Ugly CGI.
Apparently there was an impact during the timeskip. They just ignore it.
The new beast mode looks like a cat.
Gendo wins by doing absolutely nothing.
That stupid FrankenEva.

>>162068294
>Your reasoning was that the movie series isn't just one movie, it's four,
Not my reasoning. Its the fact, and there cant be "reasoning" around it.

>But even with four movies, they still have to be more-or-less complete stories in their own right, because unlike a TV series, you don't get the next one the week after.
>But even with four movies, they still have to be more-or-less complete stories in their own right,

Which every movie except 3.33 succeeds at. Beginning to see the problem yet, or is your mind so rotted by otaku brainwashing you cant?

>She asks how Rei Ayanami would act, and only ejects when Asuka asks what SHE wants to do instead.

Which again, completely blows your earlier bullshit argument out. She is asking what to do, and she does what she was told - again. Not only is your view here nonsense, but this HAS NO DEVELOPMENT. There is NO REASON for Rei Q to think like she does, because she isnt fleshed out as a character. Like Asuka, she is nothing except an otaku fantasy of self-insertion.

This is why you, and everyone else who like 3.33, are retarded. You are close-minded idiots who are unable to separate your fantasy from reality. 3.33 was made for shut in otaku like yourself, and thats why you are unable to understand it at all.

So in summary, youve been moving goalposts all day.

You made up a lie about Rei Q having a dilemma about living or dying
You made up a lie about Rei Q´s scene being "powerful" when literally no one feels or thinks that way
You then tried to make it out as if it was meaningful because Rei Q did something new, when all she did was do as she was told.

Whats next? Going to post a fanfic or something? At least be honest, because your reasons for liking Rei Q are obviously not real. Dumb fucking 3.33 shill

File: 31716243_big_p1.jpg (482KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

482KB, 1200x1600px

>Everyone had over a decade to mull over events that have happened, their lots in life, how they want to proceed, what they need to be doing
>Shinji returns
>everyone becomes fucking retarded and moreso than ever before
It's the way that everything is contrived to make life shit for Shinji that I can't stand. I mean, the show always was that, that's basically all it ever was, but it was somehow... never to this extreme. Before it maintained some level of plausibility, suspension of disbelief, verisimilitude, however you want to put it. The world of EVA was a messed up one and it was unfortunate for Shinji that he's forced into a position where he has to endure all this fucked up shit - but now in the third Rebuild movie it was like there was an actual intent there in that fucked up world to specifically target Shinji, the directors' hands interfering with everything to contrive all these scenarios were more visible than ever.

Asuka and Rei, and also Shinji to an extent were contrived to become more extreme versions of their established characters. If the film had managed to convince me it was smarter than it was, I might be able to believe this "flanderisation" of some of the most popular characters in all of anime was some sort of cynical comment on the drawn out inevitability of such an over commercialised franchise - but no, they were made to be that way so that Shinji became alienated, with Asuka being a relentless ball of rage, Rei being an actually emotionless autist, and Shinji being clingy and retarded.

Mari inexplicably became a yuri fanservice waste of space when in 2.22 she had promise to be some sort of disruptive element with an explicit purpose behind her actions - that was all thrown out the window.

Ah, I've hit the character limit

File: 37376236.png (790KB, 800x1200px) Image search: [Google]

790KB, 800x1200px

>>162068951
Kaworu was like an overly perfect manic pixie dreamboy yaoi fanservice machine, and like Mari he had seemed to be waiting around with a purpose to actually fix something in the supposed "cycle" of EVA. I'd have to rewatch it to refresh my memory on how much of an extent the climax reflected that vs. him just waiting to meet Shinji again. Of course he was destined to die again so I guess I can't complain about that, I just don't like how transparently yaoibait he is, but I can't claim that to be, like, an intellectual position.

Misato was just bizarrely unreasonable and uncooperative, and like with everyone else who takes against the movie, my biggest complaint is how "all it would have taken was for her to explain things to Shinji". Misato's where the apologists come out of the woodwork though
>Misato's assholery was the result of her being emotional and how she seemed in her interactions with Shinji is betrayed by the fact she couldn't bring herself to pull the trigger and explode his neck
I don't care, it's how unbalanced it all is that's the problem. Like, Asuka's hateboner for Shinji throughout the movie has a tiny nugget of a reason behind it - it's retarded and barely makes sense even if you account for just how messed up a person Asuka is. It can't be extruded out to be an explanation for how ridiculous everyone acts. None of these typical excuses can.

I've not gone into all the nonsensical "wtf is that" scenery we're shown without explanation. It seems to me pretty much in line with the characters having been flanderised potentially as some sort of intentional, cynical comment, like "look at all this crazy shit, are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" You can argue it was always this way but I don't think it was ever this lazily implemented. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence

On the bright side, I do think it's the best looking of the three movies to date. Needlessly extended CGI sequences notwithstanding.

File: myanimelist3.png (235KB, 609x2374px) Image search: [Google]

235KB, 609x2374px

>>162058904
It is better than 2.0 which is the worst anime ever made.

>>162068951
>>162069059

The way the characters changed are how we can best understand what 3.33 actually was. You say they turned into a more extreme version of their original selves, but is this even true?

Was Asuka JUST a rageball of hate? No, she was a complete failure in the original who failed to even stand on her two legs. If she were to be more extreme, she´d be more pathetic, not neo-empowering in her rage and new found superpowers. Crushing Rei´s entire existence into a batch of clones isnt a more extreme version of Rei´s character, its an attack on it.

This blatant flattery and character assasination you can also find for Kaworu and Shinji. Evangelion has actually become something utterly disgusting with 3.33.

>>162069166
>all that shit taste
As expected of a 3.33 shitlover.

>>162058904
Hey I'm on episode 12 of Eva and this shit is boring, when does it get good?

>>162058904
it's not shit at all. It's a very beautiful film. OST is wonderfull and Shinji and Kaworu parts were charming, People on /a/ say it's shit because, well, it's /a/, a place not renowned for having people with a good taste.

>>162068554
>Like it or not, it remains the most solid portion of the story.
It's "solid" because it's a shit version of a good story I've already seen before.

> This is why no one gives the first two movies shit for having unrealistic or unbelievable characters
I never said they were. Just underdeveloped to the point I'd barely know them after four if I wasn't already familiar with them.

>Because its an ENDING movie, not an actual story in itself like Rebuild is?
Yes, which is why it worked where the Rebuild series does not. Examining that difference gives insight into the failures of Rebuild.

>Which every movie except 3.33 succeeds at.
Being complete stories? Sure. Not being rushed shadows of what Eva stories should be, simplified in order to fit complete arcs into neat, movie-length chunks? No so much.

>She is asking what to do, and she does what she was told - again?
No, she didn't. She asked what Rei II would do, because of Shinji rejecting her for being different - "I'm not Ayanami?". When asked, Asuka refuses to tell her what to do, and instead asks what Q herself wants to do.

>You made up a lie about Rei Q having a dilemma about living or dying
Realizing she has her own desire is not a dilemma.

>You made up a lie about Rei Q´s scene being "powerful" when literally no one feels or thinks that way
Leaving aside your ability to speak for the entire world, appeal to (un)popularity a fallacy - especially when the subject is my own reaction to something.

>You then tried to make it out as if it was meaningful because Rei Q did something new, when all she did was do as she was told.
Not only not what happened, but the exact opposite of what happened.

>Dumb fucking 3.33 shill
Damn, you caught me. Anno's paying me to damage control 3.33 five years after it came out. Not to say that it's good, mind, just to say that the entire Rebuild series was bad and not just 3.33. How did you know?

>>162069521
>Just underdeveloped to the point I'd barely know them after four if I wasn't already familiar with them.

I'm not sure what I thought I was typing there, but I meant "after two movies".

>>162067056
>But it is 2 that panders too otakus and 3 does the opposite of that
literally what the fuck am I reading

how can anyone have his opinion

>>162069742

Well, for starters

>2
>designated waifubait #1 is becoming closer to the self-insert robot pilot MC after giving him a special smile at the end of the last movie, and he MANS UP and uses his willpower to save her!
>3
>he not only failed to save her and now she's dead or as good as, he almost blew up the entire world with his fuckup and everyone hates him
>nobody wants or needs him to pilot a robot anymore, except the guy who uses his broken spirit to manipulate into almost blowing up the entire world again, and even in the final battles he's told the best thing he could do is to stop trying to help

>2
>designated waifubait #2 has changed from the TV series and is now a lot nicer to everyone, more of a tsundere who cares deep down than a psychologically broken and twisted bitch externalizing her self-loathing
>3
>nope she's a bitch again

>>162069521
>It's "solid" because it's a shit version of a good story I've already seen before.
Again being a self-centered cuck, I see. How about realizing you aren't the only one that exists on this planet? Like it or not, people are watching Rebuild without any prior knowledge. But most importantly, a work of fiction stands on it's own, and whether or not you've seen it before or not doesn't make it better or worse.

Sorry but you have no argument her eat all. Facts are that 1 & 2 are as fiction and movies, solid.

>Just underdeveloped to the point I'd barely know them after four if I wasn't already familiar with them.
Holy fuck, how can you lie so much to yourself? You know them, yet you don't? How about not being a fucking moron and realizing that you get to know them over time, JUST LIKE IN NGE? Hell, or any other story. Stop being stupid.

>Being complete stories? Sure. Not being rushed shadows of what Eva stories should be, simplified in order to fit complete arcs into neat, movie-length chunks? No so much.
Not arguments. 3.33 is that exact, evil shadow over what an Eva story could be. The first two, are not because they ACTUALLY TOLD a story versus just pandering.

>Realizing she has her own desire is not a dilemma.
Again, making up shit. Stop it with the fanfic.

>Leaving aside your ability to speak for the entire world,
Yet you did just that earlier? Facts are that nothing of what you claim can be proven, and you havent proven anything. It's check mate. My factual observation of the ABSENCE of the phenomena you claim to exist, proves me right and you wrong. QED.

>the rest
Because you speak in defense of 3.33 with fake argumentation and red herrings. You use vague statements and project your own personal opinion, which we have demonstrated is based on lies to defend 3.33 That is the work of shills, paid or not.

The facts are simple. 3.33 is an abomination, and is far, far worse than the predecessors.

>>162069742
People just say that because Asuka was actually in it now, Rei was all poka poka and rapidly developed something approaching a normal personality, Mari had big tits, and the ending had Shinji be somewhat heroic and carve himself out a positive outcome.

That's their reasoning. I don't exactly disagree with it, but I don't think it constitutes an argument that 3.33 wasn't fanservice either, I'd honestly say all the scenes with Shinji sitting around and playing piano with Kaworu the perfect 2D boyfriend were more explicitly fanservice than anything in 2.22. In that the visual fanservice was just sprinkled in and it was mostly just there as happenstance, inconsequential, besides Rei and Shinji actually being more active participants in their own stories.

The Shinji and Kaworu scenes however were really drawn out, were a huge chunk of the movie, and didn't achieve much in regards to plot progression or character development. Like, the Piano scenes were the equivalent of Asuka and Shinji dance-training together. In that episode they were terrible and at odds with each other, and put in the work to be in tune with each other. On the other hand, Shinji somehow managed to play along with Kaworu at the piano literally on his first attempt.

>>162069742
He's retarded. He does not understand that Rebuild 1.11 and 2.22 took their time to constructively build something, which at the same time asserts that it's something more than pornographic entertainment for otaku.

When 3.33 simply shows characters in positions otaku would want, but doesn't build, develop or make a strong case for anything but it's own pandering, it's just that - pandering.

Would storyline imperceptibly thick with setups we are and are not expected to know and disconnected from any kind of discourse do? Would the script bending to a plothole of everybody blaming Shinji for what the movie itself says Seele did do? Would 15 minutes of 3DCG wank do?

I dunno man you tell me.

Yeah 2.0 was bad but at LEAST it was a really cool action movie with grand music and robuts. 3.0 didn't have ANYTHING appealing about it and I fear that was its point. It was meant to pander to yaoifags while shitting on everyone else's face and seeing with how much they could get away.

Evidently, they got away with it so.

>>162070235
Not him but see >>162070428

You are essentially using pointless slurs and insults towards the characters, while ignoring the fact that they did have development and growth. A character isn't a fanservice character because it is put in a sexual context. European art depicting semi-nude women, if you can remember the piece of the french revolution, does not cease to have merit because there are breasts showing.

In the same way, Rei's growth, Shinji's growth, the drama between Misato, Asuka and Shinji, and even his father together makes a credible set of characters, built from nothing.

Looking at 3.33 again, all of these elements are gone, and instead the characters are on screen for lengthy amounts, but they only speak tech jargon or showcase their sexually attractive bodies. No character, no development, no meaning.

This is why 3.33 is considered pure fanservice. I mean, have you even considered that the hardcore and hateful otaku actually wanted it all to crash and burn? Go back in time before 2.22, and you'll see Asuka fans cheering for the destruction of the world. They were super-happy when it happened in 3.33, and so they were pandered to. What was missing here, was context, believability, and meaning.

>>162058904
I really liked the ED theme.
That's it

>>162070694
It upsets me that such a fantastic song was put into this movie

File: 1504915255114.png (91KB, 1443x655px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 1443x655px

>>162070335
You're right, but consider the original series. Wasn't the first 13 episodes of Evangelion, particularlly the part where Asuka shows up, the most lighthearted part?

This is where we find most of EVA's gags, sexual fanservice and heavy robot action. It's extremely ironic that Asuka fans can rage over 2.22's apparent tendency towards light hearted content, while at the same time being angry that it was missing "Dance like you want to win", the ultimate light hearted episode.

I say NGE, and 1.11, and 2.22, are allowed to have light hearted content GIVEN that it also builds the story constructively. Something 3.33 did not do, making it the odd one out, and also making it the ONLY rebuild that is also exclusively fanservice.

>>162070288

>Like it or not, people are watching Rebuild without any prior knowledge
Yes, exactly. I know the characters only because I've already seen the parts of the franchise that actually develop them properly - which is what the movie is banking on by skimping on that development.

>whether or not you've seen it before or not doesn't make it better or worse.
Bullshit. If that were true they might as well forget about making movies entirely and just re-screen the original.

> You know them, yet you don't?
I know them, but only because of material external to the movie and unrelated to its continuity. If I just had the movie to go by, standing on its own, I'd have an incredibly shallow picture of them.

>The first two, are not because they ACTUALLY TOLD a story
That doesn't make sense. My whole point is that they all are complete stories - shit, simplified complete stories, because in a single movie that's all something like Eva has time for, and that the opposite case - a full, complex story that does Eva justice, but chopped into four releases - would also fail as a movie series.

>Again, making up shit.
Okay, you win. Asuka didn't ask Q what she wanted instead of telling her what to do or what Rei would do. I guess someone hacked into my computer and edited my copy to put that scene in. I'll have to thank them for that, because I quite liked it. It was powerful.

>>162070570
Well, depends.

While 3.33 was popular with the otaku, the regulars shunned it and gave it poor reviews. Even some otaku did not like it because it was simply too much. Ultimately the people who support 3.33 are vocal otaku who have eva waifus - that includes the Kaworu fans.

In terms of sales, Rebuild 3.33 ended up selling less than 2.22 - by quite a margin in fact. It never sold as much as 2.22 did in it's first week. Rephrasing that, Rebuild 2.22 sold more in it's first week (600.000 copies of BDs and DVDs) than 3.33 did in it's entire life time. It's also the worst rated Evangelion movie ever made.

Having that said, people will still support 3.33 because if they do, they are also supporting their waifus. Asuka fans have longed for this moment for, what, twenty years now?

>>162070824
>Yes, exactly. I know the characters only because I've already seen the parts of the franchise that actually develop them properly - which is what the movie is banking on by skimping on that development.

Which is wrong. It didn't skimp on a single thing. The characters are appropriately developed for being in two movies. in terms of running time, comparable with that of the original series. The responsibility for maturing and further developing the characters naturally falls on Rebuild 3.33 and onwards, just like episodes 14-26 finished the original characters.

Take a moment and reflect on just how stupid you are.

>I know them, but only because of material external to the movie and unrelated to its continuity. If I just had the movie to go by, standing on its own, I'd have an incredibly shallow picture of them.
and so would you if you had watched half of NGE. See above.

>That doesn't make sense. My whole point is that they all are complete stories
Wrong. 3.33 is not a complete story. It's so incomplete and filled with plot holes that people genuinely thought it was "half a movie", and some do even today, claiming it was supposed to be a two-parter.

Again, you're fucking wrong. They aren't all complete stories that justify themselves. Only 1.11 and 2.22 are. The facts are that they aren't independent stories with no relation to each other, they continue each other.

2.22 successfully built on 1.11, but 3.33 could just as well not be related to 2.22 at all given the massive plotholes it has. What you seem to not understand because you are unintelligent, is that 1.11 and 2.22 justify themselves as stories. Watching either of them gives you the tooling to understand what has happened so far, and shows you that it'd be realistic to unfold like this. But 3.33 does not, it's contrived and a failure as a movie.

>the rest
Being cute doesn't help your argument. You've been moving goalposts all day. Facts are that you're a liar who believes his own lies.

>>162070991
>Ultimately the people who support 3.33 are vocal otaku who have eva waifus - that includes the Kaworu fans.
Why are you considering Kaworu a waifu so you can bring all otaku into the group of people who support the film? In my estimation it's only Kaworufags who are unapologetic about it, all the other waifus were needlessly maligned, I don't think there are waifufags who wouldn't have complaints.

>>162071236
Not that guy and I mostly don't disagree with you, but 2.22 doesn't feel like anything approaching a complete story to me. The only thing that's complete is in the events of the climax, with Shinji going all out to save Rei after he'd seen her essentially vouching for him and trying to help him connect with Gendo previously in the movie.

All the other hanging threads, especially concerning what Kaji and Mari are up to, were completely dropped. 2.22 felt very much like an "inbetween" movie rather than one that had any chance of standing up on its own.

>>162071379
What's the difference? Tell me. Kaworu is a boy, but is he not a waifu? He's a husbando, but a husbando is no different from a waifu in the context we're considering:

"A fictional character that is the object of obsessive desire from a fan".

About the Kaworu fans, well, some are unapolegetic, some are not. But what they all have in common is, is that they are all fans of Evangelion due to pure waifuism and sexual escapism. This is an objective fact because Kaworu has never been a fleshed out character, so objectively speaking, there's nothing about Kaworu to enjoy EXCEPT his superficial character.

Now translate this into a story - an Evangelion story - and you will be forced to strip all substance from the story in order to accomodate the substanceless Kaworu.There is your 3.33, along with a healthy dose of pro-Asuka propaganda.

>>162071631
Does this mean episode 24 is substanceless?

>>162071572
>Not that guy and I mostly don't disagree with you, but 2.22 doesn't feel like anything approaching a complete story to me.

But it shouldn't either. It's only half way. I wasn't expecting to see the full end of Evangelion after I had watched episode 13. Were you? If that's the case, I dare say that you judge too quick.

>
All the other hanging threads, especially concerning what Kaji and Mari are up to, were completely dropped.

Were they? Because both Kaji AND Mari were scheming RIGHT UP UNTIL THE END OF 2.22! Don't mistake my caps lock for rage here, it's just for emphasis. You are right that it is more or less dropped, but where was it dropped? In 3.33

Thanks to 3.33 being just hot air, there is now no time left whatsoever for there to even be any plotting or threads to continue.

No, 2.22 did just fine there. People were wondering. Now? Now they could be up to anything because of hard 3.33 jumped the shark, and now it doesn't really matter any more.

File: J9HpfLV.jpg (76KB, 1920x814px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 1920x814px

>>162058904
Their chins are too pointy and it's really jarring.

>>162071683
No. Episode 24 is, quite literally, 1/26th of NGE. One out of 26 episodes.

Now stretch out episode 24's content to six or seven episodes. Remove some of Kaworu's character motivations, and remove all his development.

Then start showing this STRAIGHT after episode 13. Now it is utterly and completely without substance.

>>162071236
>The responsibility for maturing and further developing the characters naturally falls on Rebuild 3.33 and onwards, just like episodes 14-26 finished the original characters.
The movies don't tell the first half of the original story. They retell the whole thing from meeting Misato to Instrumentality, except with nowhere near the amount of development and psychological build-up because there's no time for anything but the highlight reel.

>3.33 is not a complete story.
Being badly made doesn't make it incomplete. It's extremely self-contained; don't even try to tell me you could honestly see Near Third Impact being the midpoint of a three-hour movie.

>Facts are that you're a liar who believes his own lies.
I already gave you the literal exchange they had. I can't help you any further than that.

>>162071631
>What's the difference? Tell me.
My point is that you say waifufags support the film as if it's a whole group when it's only a fraction of the group doing any of the supporting when a majority of that same group are more than likely disappointed by it.

In that case, shouldn't you round up to say "the waifufags are disapponted by the film"

And this seems more disingenuous when, obviously, you're twisting the explicit definition of a word so you can lump the one small responsible group in with the other larger less responsible group. Why take the effort in broadening a definition like that when surely it's in everyone's best interests to be more specific about it?

>Ultimately the people who support 3.33 are vocal fujoshi who have their EVA husbando - the Kaworu fans.

>>162071889
>The movies don't tell the first half of the original story. They retell the whole thing from meeting Misato to Instrumentality

Objectively wrong. What the two first movies are, are a changed version of the first half of NGE. It contains different development, even different characters, and does not in any way whatsoever, re-tell the whole thing. This is an objective fact, and I don't care what sort of mental gymnastics you've done to reach that insane conclusion.

In the real, actual world anon, the end of 2.22 marked the end of the first half of the Rebuild series. It did not attempt to redo the character arcs of the characters, but gave them new development which brought them to a place similar to where they were after episode 13. Regardless if Kaworu and Lilith appeared in episode 1.11, this was the extent of their development.

>Being badly made doesn't make it incomplete.
It makes it bad, which is the main argument to begin with. Good you admit it's shit, but facts are that it's considered incomplete beause it doesn't contain not information or context to provide a good enough overview of what happend. So what is an overview that's "good enough" you ask? To make it believable. To make it realistic. To make the characters's actions have meaning, and to not make it seem like they were forced to read a script. 3.33 does not have this, it is incomplete.

>It's extremely self-contained; don't even try to tell me you could honestly see Near Third Impact being the midpoint of a three-hour movie.
Don't even tell me that's supposed to be a coherent argument arguing for something. Try to actually make points that matter.

>I already gave you the literal exchange they had. I can't help you any further than that.
After moving on from your original claim. Do you even realize that you've invalidated everything you've been saying? Idiot.

Truth is, Rei Q's exchange there exists for a wholly different reason, an excuse to have Asuka look down on Rei.

>>162070235
>he thinks character growth is otaku bait
literally the opposite

>>162071992
There is not twisting of the definition of the word, nor is it a broadening of it. In fact, if I had said "waifufags and husbandofags" instead, my argument would remain the same. Your semantics have no meaning, because the absolute truth of what I've written remains.

I only made clear that this group does not just include the fans of female characters, but also those fans of male characters. It's 2017, shitlord.

...and no, it's not only the vocal fujoshi that support 3.33. It's waifufags, and I've mentioned in SPECIFIC what type. Here I'll bring in some more:

>Kaworufags
>Asukafags
>Marifags

these are the type of otaku that 3.33 panders to. Even if an Asukafag complains that "asuka isn't good enough a character in 3.33" (which is true), he or her is still left with the fact that the Asuka in 3.33 is extremely flattering compared to the original and more pathetic Asuka. They, having realized that the future of Evangelion is only pandering, will support 3.33 even if they acknowledge it's shit. The alternative is much worse.

>>162072396
>Asuka in 3.33 is extremely flattering compared to the original and more pathetic Asuka.
I don't buy that reasoning at all. I'm not an Asukafag so maybe I have no right to speak for them, but Asuka in 3.33 was entirely one dimensional and had only one thing to say. How is that more flattering than any previous incarnation of her? Even in 2.22 she had more going for her. Asuka's appeal seemingly comes from the fact that there's a soft Asuka in there who could be reached if you put up with her harsh exterior for long enough. In the third film there wasn't even really any evidence that soft interior exists anymore, she was batshit crazy whenever she saw Shinji

As for Marifags... how many of those even are there? I don't consider myself a Marifag but during the 2.22 days I used to defend her presence in the franchise:
>We're only halfway through the film series guys, she hasn't done all that much yet despite apparently knowing all sorts of secrets about the EVA, but she's clearly got an agenda and has tricks up her sleeves, so let's see where the series takes her, she still has time to justify her addition to the cast.
is what I would say. Did 3.33 live up to the promise of her potential? No it just abandoned all that and made her ambiguously gay with Asuka. For all the support that might win ffrom the few Marifags there supposedly are, I doubt that's enough to really have them singing the praises of the film considering the miniscule role she played in the film. She was window dressing, and not much of it at that.

File: 1474428447135.jpg (2MB, 2816x2176px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2816x2176px

>NGE was deep
lmao

>>162073280
>Anime
>Deep and intelligent
Stop pretending your children's chinese cartoons are better than other children's chinese cartoons.

>>162058904
I don't really know, I guess it's absolutely underwhelming compared to 2.22.
Muh timeslip only serves to confuse us, when 2.22 ended on a cliffhanger.

I absolutely hated it on first watch.
Convinced myself to re-watch it recently, and now I just find it meh.

File: QbdYPB3.jpg (69KB, 640x400px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 640x400px

>>162072990
>I'm not an Asukafag so maybe I have no right to speak for them, but Asuka in 3.33 was entirely one dimensional and had only one thing to say.
Yeah. Just like Kaworu, really. No character, all otaku pandering. As a result, both Kaworu and Asuka are more popular than ever.

This only proves that Asuka fans aren't interested in Asuka's character - they don't want Asuka to have anything going for her except a superficial tsundere attitude and position of power. In 2.22 Asuka is more developed and tsundere, but Rei is also there and not doing too bad herself. So the Asuka fan is miscontent, because most of them are only happy when Rei is put below Asuka, hence the ultimate Asukafan fantasy, Re-Take has Rei subject herself to Asuka.
Just like Rei Q has to do in 3.33, and just like the memory and existence of Rei from II has been erased.

These elements have no development or meaning beyond their value to otaku.

>As for Marifags... how many of those even are there?
Enough for her to be continuously featured along with the rest of the pilots. No other character in EVA's history has managed to come that far. It's also important to note that Mari is herself an effort to make Asuka more popular. The writers compare Mari to Kaworu - e.g a same sex interest with no character that's injected into the story with some deniable subtext concerning their relationship. It's for the otaku fans. So Mari, while having her own fanbase of waifufags, is also making Asuka more popular by attracting the Yuri crowd to her side. MariSuka is a real thing, and it's more or less sponsored officially. Picture related is merchandise capitalizing on that effect.

The people behind the Rebuild projects are cynical otaku - it's important to not be afraid to categorize them as what they are. They know how you think and exploit it.

File: 1504560198294.jpg (271KB, 541x700px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 541x700px

>>162058904
What the fuck is wrong with this garbage show and it's fanbase?

>>162074137
>Asuka is popular
>Asuka has a shining spot in 3.33
The movie literally shit on all the main girls and suck kaworus dick for 2 hours.

It has a winged dick emerging from the sea, a raft of new characters as pointless as they are ugly, and nothing fucking happens.

>>162074373
Contrast 3.33's Asuka with NGE's Asuka.

In NGE, she's gradually deteriorating, she's a mentally unstable girl incapable of performing socially, professionally. Eventually she goes into a coma because of a bad case of hurt feelings. Not only that, she flirts with older men, is rejected, and goes crazy. The final sequence of the character has it admit it was a fake all along, and that she was essentially a puppet. There was nothing special about her, and she paled in comparison to Rei.

In Rebuild however, she has no real problems at all. She's a trained professional, has no interest in flirting with older men, performs very well professionally taking out Angels on her own, and get this shocking fact:

- ASUKA NOW HAS SUPER STRENGTH
- ASUKA NOW HAS ETERNAL YOUTH
- ASUKA IS NOW POSSIBLY HALF-ANGEL / SUPERHUMAN

It reads like an unhinged powerfantasy. If 3.33 was actually to shit on Asuka, then you'd at least expect the outcome to be worse than NGE. But it's better for Asuka fans and potential Asuka fans.

Now I don't care what you say. It's clear as day - this is pandering taken so far it damages the integrity of the character. Kaworu is also pandered like this, at expense of what little character he has. Which is the point - that is what happened to 3.33.

>>162074218
>left
>On todays episode of Top Gear, James May visits a anime convention

I hated it because now everyone's dead.
now i really don't give a shit if the world ends.

>>162074822
Talking about the rebuilds as a whole, not just 3.33
Every character recieved those "powerfantasy" upgrades, including rei in 2.22
And both them pale to kaworu in 3.33.
So i guess it isnt taking a shit on them by making them worse, just by not keeping them up with kaworu and shinji

>>162075137
>Every character recieved those "powerfantasy" upgrades, including rei in 2.22

Not in any way. I was just considering 3.33, but for Asuka, this sort of pandering does truthfully extend to 2.22. But the difference between 3.33 and 2.22 in that sort of pandering is, that even if Asuka is being pandered in 2.22, her character is also being built. You have both.

So while yes, Kaworu is allowed an upgrade as well, it's on part with Asuka's obscene upgrade. Reminder:
- ASUKA NOW HAS SUPER STRENGTH
- ASUKA NOW HAS ETERNAL YOUTH
- ASUKA IS NOW POSSIBLY HALF-ANGEL / SUPERHUMAN
- ASUKA NOW HAS NO ISSUES
- ASUKA IS NOT PUNISHED FOR HER ACTIONS
- ASUKA GOES TO SPACE AND IS IN CONTRAST WITH THE ORIGINAL, SOMEWHAT COMPETENT

It is not possible to reconcile the truth above with the idea that Asuka's pandering is on a level equal to Rei or Mari. In fact, for Rei's case, the character has not received any such "upgrades", but has rather been demoted and removed from the story. Split into several characters. In fact, 3.33 turns the narrative AGAINST Rei, as it associates being with/liking Rei with sin - Shinji's sin.

So again, the idea that Rebuild "shits on both" is utterly and completely wrong.

>>162074137
>As for Marifags... how many of those even are there?
>Enough for her to be continuously featured along with the rest of the pilots.
The pilots are most often shown in a whole group in promotional art? Yeah, no shit. What sort of reasoning is this? You can't honestly say Mari being included in that is a sign of her popularity.

>>162075506
For those of us that Remember Evangelion in the 90's and the majority of the 2000's before Mari was introduced, we also remember the many other "Eva Girls" that never made it. There's Mana and the "other glasses girl" that no one even remembers any more. Yes, Mari is not the first Eva girl with glasses.

No one cared for these characters. But Mari on the other hand, was popular enough that the writers of Rebuild made more space for her in Rebuild based on fan response. Not only that, she has loads of doujins, loads of merchandise on par with the other pilots.

Believe it or not, to be featured alongside the legendary Rei Ayanami is NO small feat. If you want numbers, I suggest you check out the NewType polls for instance.

When Mari was first featured, she ranked #1, and then later below the "main girls" of Evangelion. I will not say that Mari is more popular than either Asuka or Rei, but she is popular and she does have a fanbase. There's also the fact that even if there were few dedicated Mari fans, there's still the Yuri fans - which I contend are massively important.

Because Mari's exists largely to be shipped with Asuka. So otaku who are into yuri, same-sex female relationships, will naturally gravitate towards the "officially sponsored" lesbian teenage ship. Such a fan might buy one doll of Asuka, and one doll of Mari - to pair them. A similar dynamic like the Kaworu x Shinji fans. Again, the writers themselves consider Mari a female Kaworu to Asuka. A shipping toy.

>You can't honestly say Mari being included in that is a sign of her popularity.
Among other factors that is definitely one thing that demonstrates Mari's presence and popularity, since getting there at all is difficult. I can't stand Mari. I'm not saying this because I want her to be popular.

>>162075853
M8, don't be retarded and stop with the pretentiousness.

I know all those other characters, but they aren't IN Rebuild, Mari is. Mari is featured in promotional art for the movie series she is also featured in, while other non-canon characters who have previously appeared in the franchise's spin-offs but don't feature in Rebuild also don't feature in Rebuild's promotional art??? Shocking!

>But Mari on the other hand, was popular enough that the writers of Rebuild made more space for her in Rebuild based on fan response.
What is this even meant to mean? Are you confused? Mari was made FOR Rebuild. Her inclusion in the series isn't a response to her fan popularity, she didn't even exist before it. They made a new character rather than bringing in those older ones because they didn't want her to be beholden to audience expectation, they wanted an unknown element to inject into Rebuild. When she first appeared and apparently topped a popularity poll, that was just because she was new and interesting.

>Because Mari's exists largely to be shipped with Asuka.
This is obviously false, in 2.22 she only really interacted with Shinji, and was even all over him at one point. It's obvious any shipping she was intended for was with Shinji, but then in 3.33 she was only hanging out with Asuka because they didn't know what the fuck to do with her because they've been writing this shit by the seat of their pants, are making decisions on a whim and haven't remotely planned ahead.

File: mari-asuka.jpg (305KB, 1600x1160px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 1600x1160px

>>162076601
I thought it was obvious, but Mari features also in non-Rebuild promotional art. Unless you want to argue that "everything" is technicallly Rebuild promotional art. Putting it this way, she is featured more than Misato is, or Shinji. We know there's an audience for Misato, why are you so reluctant to believe people like Mari?

>Her inclusion in the series isn't a response to her fan popularity, she didn't even exist before it.
They teased and released the design for Mari before, and the fan response lead to a greater role.

>When she first appeared and apparently topped a popularity poll, that was just because she was new and interesting.
It would seem that you are making excuses. My argument is that this is a feat that only Mari has achieved still stands.

>This is obviously false, in 2.22 she only really interacted with Shinji, and was even all over him at one point. It's obvious any shipping she was intended for was with Shinji, but then in 3.33 she was only hanging out with Asuka because they didn't know what the fuck to do with her because they've been writing this shit by the seat of their pants, are making decisions on a whim and haven't remotely planned ahead.

Which isn't quite true. In 2.22 Mari pilots Asuka's EVA, intrinsically tying them together. Moreover, in art, and in the groundworks/storyboards and concurrent interviews at the time, we learn that Mari was very much paired with Asuka in 2.22. There are (thankfully) cut scenes of Asuka feeding Mari, or Mari holding Asuka's hand piloting the EVA from 2.22.

This is something that's made for the otaku, mind you. Much like Kaworu and Shinji have no real sexual and romantic relationship in Rebuild, the building blocks are there for otaku to build. They're seen together, and in interviews, storyboards, and merchandise, the implications are brought further.

>>162077209
>>162076601
and a quote from Higuchi, on Mari:
>Higuchi: If I had to say, I’d say she was like a female version of Kaworu.

So as you can see, there isn't anything very pretentious here. It's all real, and sourcable in the real world. When 3.33 continues pairing off Mari and Asuka, on post cards, merchandise, and have them be partners in the movie, don't you think the pieces are falling together rather neatly?

In the "new" promo art for the next movie, there's a picture of Mari and Asuka's room. Yes, they share a room, and a bed. A bunk bed where only ONE bed is used. It's these sort of hints and implications, that any regular movie goer or critic won't be able to pick up in the 90 minutes 3.33 lasts. Just like the Kaworu/Shinji or Yaoi /Yuri fans in general, half the "fun" is in figuring out HOW they are together. It only took analyzing a single pin Asuka wore (The Royal Air Force pin) for them to conclude they were "definitely an item", seeing as Mari is british.

One can believe, that in the beginning, Anno had more honest intentions with Rebuild, meaning Mari was going to be a serious character and not part of a ploy to make Asuka more popular. But even so, that's not what Mari became.

>>162077209
>I thought it was obvious, but Mari features also in non-Rebuild promotional art. Unless you want to argue that "everything" is technicallly Rebuild promotional art.
Yes, I would argue that. Rebuild, and merchandise that's churned out in an effort to promote Rebuild is all they really have right now. It's not like Rebuild is one of many fronts in the franchise, it's basically all there is, everything else is an extension of it. The other characters you seem to think could be potentially competing against Mari for a spot in current promotional art are from long dead side projects, while Rebuild is THE Evangelion project as it is right now, it's the canon, and Shinji, Rei, Asuka, Mari and Kaworu are the de facto Eva characters to be plastered over that promotional art. There's no reason to think that a two decade-old side character with limited exposure should even appear in current art, none of them appear in anything outside of their own projects and promotional art for those projects, why should they crop up now?

And it's the five "children" who are front and centre in the majority of the art because that's how it's always been, primarily about the pilots. There are plenty of other characters who get to feature in promotional art, and this includes Misato, but despite being a main character, she and everyone else are still on a lower tier than the pilots not because of popularity but because the pilots are the most important characters, the whole franchise hinges on them piloting the EVA.

>>162078347
While true that they are from "long dead projects", even back then they didn't get where Mari was in terms of popularity. Maybe twenty years in the future, there will be another EVA character introduced. Looking back at 2009/2017, we'd be seeing Mari as substantially more popular than the older characters from those side-projects you mentioned.

Moreover, popularity - consider that Mari produces more merchandise, and ranks higher than Misato, a veteran we both acknowledge has a following. My point is not that Mari is the most popular. But she has a following, and Mari's popularity is in fact, unprecedented. Downplaying this doesn't do anyone any good. Facts are, she is part of the "IT" group now. Everyone except her is a character dating back from the original. I don't like it, but Mari has been here to stay for some while now.

The reasons for that, are as I mentioned earlier. She's made to be popular jointly with Asuka intentionally eschewing quality writing.

File: Cx7mSfGXAAQB7Ty_ikuto_yamashita_山下いくと.jpg (334KB, 2048x1536px) Image search: [Google]

334KB, 2048x1536px

>>162077532
>and a quote from Higuchi, on Mari:
>Higuchi: If I had to say, I’d say she was like a female version of Kaworu.
Is this meant to back up your claim? That statement says nothing about her being gay or being gay for Asuka in particular. In that interview he's literally talking about Mari as she relates to Shinji anyway.

>In the "new" promo art for the next movie, there's a picture of Mari and Asuka's room. Yes, they share a room, and a bed. A bunk bed where only ONE bed is used.
You mean a bunk bed where only one bed has someone in it? That says nothing of the status of the other bed. It's not exactly a normal bed, it's spartan as fuck, thus the notion that "when the person who would be sleeping in it isn't, their blanket would be there and their bed neatly made" doesn't remotely apply. And this isn't promo art, it's concept art that was put on display. It's not the same thing and there's every possibility it could change

And besides, any arguments about Asuka and Mari being an item NOW are fucking moot. What does it matter when something to that effect was already established in the last movie?

My point is that in the second movie, there was no sign of any of that, she was focused on Shinji. Citing concept art has no value because, as I'm sure you're aware, in these movies they have no idea what they're doing and they churn through ideas until they hit something that works for them. So something that was boarded for 2.22 and then thrown out doesn't support an argument about what they truly intended for Mari in that movie.

>>162078587
>While true that they are from "long dead projects", even back then they didn't get where Mari was in terms of popularity.
EVEN BACK THEN THEY DIDN'T GET WHERE MARI IS IN TERMS OF EXPOSURE, EITHER

BECAUSE UNLIKE THOSE CHARACTERS, MARI IS IN THE HIGH PROFILE, CONSTANTLY PROMOTED, CANON MOVIE SERIES

THERE WAS NEVER AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD BETWEEN THOSE CHARACTERS AND MARI

Christ, being this dense must make life difficult for you, it sure is making discussing this with you difficult for me. I'm exhausted.

>>162079105
You're exhausted because the truth frustrates you. It has always been my point that Mari was very high profile, and I argue in fact that she is designed and promoted to be popular. This is precisely why they include her as a "kaworu type character". Kaworu is popularity without substance, and so is Mari. Of course the playing field isn't level. Do you think Hideaki Anno, or Khara "plays fair" ? No my angry, butthurt friend, I'd at least never suggest that.

But facts remain facts. Mari is actively pushed, she has gained traction, is now advertised along with the original five pilots, and much of that traction comes through shipping here with Asuka, LIKE IT OR NOT. Do you not understand that they are selling a product here, and not a story?

>>162078792
I think you're too busy denying the facts before you. Possibly, you're upset about the idea of Asuka being gay with Mari. Personally, I don't give a crap. Neither should you, because whether or not you think there was enough information or not is irrelevant.

The facts are that there were hints to otaku, and that's enough. Let me demonstrate:

Consider Rei and Asuka. Two characters who are definitely not on good terms with each other. Yet, there are people who ship them. Despite the lack of... "accuracy" in such a romantic relationship. How can this be?

It's because there doesn't need to be a reason for people to ship. There already exists a huge fanbase, prior to Mari's existence, that will jump on ANY chance they get to ship two EVA-characters. So they can include Mari in Evangelion, thematically pair her or design her character to go alongside Asuka's, and never have them kiss or flirt in the entire rebuild series. Yet they will design and market Mari and Asuka often as an item, to get in on this fanbase. It's the exact same phenomenon that made Kaworu popular in the first place.

The fact that they planned scenes such as >>162077209 along with the Kaworu comment, and generally ties Asuka to Mari, is proof that they DID have this in mind when creating Mari. It was there from the start, whether or not potential yuri fans were aware or not. In the following movies and promotional art, they continue pairing them as well.

If there is any one point I want to make here, it's definitely not making a claim that Asuka is gay with Mari. It's that the writers know about the love otaku have for yuri and yaoi couples, and capitalize on it to the point where they aren't actually bothering to write the characters any more. Innuendo, implication, posing and composition of character images is enough.

>>162078792
>>162079597
Also, that display there exists for the otaku. They are the group that will analyze every millimeter of any EVA promo art, display art, or whatever have you. Asukafags, Yurifags, Marifags, all swallow it whole.

Facts are, people will look for more clues in any eventual Rebuild sequel. That's what Rebuild irrevocably became with 3.33. Just a game of putting together pandering to masturbate to.

>>162063598
>I'm glad to see it moving things forward

It didn't though.

the plot basically took shinji back to where he was in the beginning, alienated and lonely.

File: tumblr_inline_nwoycvp7la1r0ikk9_500.png (149KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 500x281px

>>162080038
>>162079597
>>162079105
>>162078792
Hell, let's go for a bonus round with a case study: http://qmisato.tumblr.com/post/102729823159/ritsukomaya-is-canon-in-the-rebuilds-no
While I won't force you to read it, observe how blatantly sure the author is that Ritsuko and Maya are an official, clear item in the Rebuilds now.

So this very official new couple has probably flown straight past everyone elses heads, right? Because whether or not this is true; the point is that it requires absolutely nothing in terms of evidence, or even on-screen relationships for fans to start making claims like these.

Observe the attached picture.

Based on this picture, which now features two FEMALE cats, rather than a black and white cat in NGE, it's a very clear sign that Ritsuko and Maya are now together, and Ritsuko is a lesbian. Because two female cats, get it?

Things obviously didn't get any better with Ritsuko's new haircut.

Regardless of how it turns out: People will look for any evidence or hint that validates their ship, particularly yui/yuri ships.

File: tumblr_inline_nwoya97v3M1r0ikk9_500.png (273KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

273KB, 500x375px

>>162080375
attached is the original version.

File: 1467466498253.png (748KB, 1110x700px) Image search: [Google]

748KB, 1110x700px

>>162058904

>>162079597
>Possibly, you're upset about the idea of Asuka being gay with Mari.
Not true.

>If there is any one point I want to make here, it's definitely not making a claim that Asuka is gay with Mari. It's that the writers know about the love otaku have for yuri and yaoi couples, and capitalize on it to the point where they aren't actually bothering to write the characters any more. Innuendo, implication, posing and composition of character images is enough.
I don't entirely disagree with you here, I think my main point in this discussion is that it's not nearly as calculated as you seem to think. They just don't know what they're doing with her, the inconsistency between the two movies, and the extent to which they abandoned her potential to be an active player in the franchise and instead just had her be Asuka's back-up is more than enough to demonstrate that.

And I've lost track but I think my original assertion that set you and me off is that there basically aren't any Marifags, not in any significant numbers, and the existence of any Marifags and any amount of popularity that has resulted from that is not the driving force of her continued appearances in promotional art or her friendship/lesbianship with Asuka.
She's in promotional art for Rebuild of Evangelion because she's a major character in Rebuild in Evangelion.
Her role as a major character in the third movie was limited to being Asuka's partner because they're already run out of good ideas for her

And If what you say was really the case, there would be plenty of promotional art featuring just Asuka and Mari together. Where is it all? Shouldn't there be tons of it?
The promotional art just comes in a few different forms, as I see it, in this order:
>all five of the Children and/or each Child separately (by which I mean the group image is designed so they can be separated)
>lots of Kaworu and Shinji
>Asuka Rei and Mari together
>sometimes just Asuka and Rei together
>rarely Asuka and Mari together

File: BeqoydLCAAALX9f.jpg (57KB, 600x375px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 600x375px

>>162080699
>I think my main point in this discussion is that it's not nearly as calculated as you seem to think. They just don't know what they're doing with her, the inconsistency between the two movies, and the extent to which they abandoned her potential to be an active player in the franchise and instead just had her be Asuka's back-up is more than enough to demonstrate that.

I think there's a good reason to seperate intents here. I believe that when they talk about struggling with finding a role for Mari, they are in fact referring to her as a well-written character. But as we could see, they had absolutely NO problem inserting her as a potential partner for Asuka. The only problem is ratifying that in the story. So in the end, it's the same.

>Mari's popularity
I disagree that she's as unpopular as you think. She does far too well in polls, and sells far too much merchandise for us to claim that. I definitely think Mari is being forced on us, but I also make it very clear, that so is Asuka and Kaworu. More than Mari, even. Mari is simply a part of Asuka's popularization campaign, for instance. I believe it is calculated, and the evidence from the production notes prove what they were going for here.

Then you can't call Mari a major character even. She is hardly a character at this stage, she's a plot device. With no background, motive, development or even a well-defined two-dimensional character, she is only a plot device. To Asuka, she is that very lesbian bait I've discussed earlier.

>And If what you say was really the case, there would be plenty of promotional art featuring just Asuka and Mari together. Where is it all? Shouldn't there be tons of it?
Consider HOW they are portrayed together. An image of Rei and Asuka may just be them together, but you don't often if EVER get the romantic blushing you get in the related image for instance, a very overt and direct form of pandering.

File: VeA6noT.jpg (127KB, 807x604px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 807x604px

>>162081020
>>162080699
of course, another venue where people offer such ideas is pachinko.

Ask yourself, honestly, if you were Anno - would you not have done this? If we can sit here today, and if fans can come up with these ideas the minute 2.0 is released, then I am demanding that Anno could also have come up with it.

>>162081210
>>162081020
>>162080699
and it's not just true that it's rare. It's not the exception, it's the rule.

Here you see, like you mentioned earlier, Rei Q, Asuka and Mari in the same picture. But you can clearly see how intimate Asuka and Mari are. Tell me, is this in-character?

File: a7025304.jpg (106KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 600x600px

>>162081287
Forgot the image.

File: a7025304_2.jpg (183KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 600x600px

>>162081350
>>162081287
>>162080699
and here, the equivalent Kaworu x Shinji image. Keep in mind I didn't actually go out of my way to find this. It's there all the time, constantly, and this is just the most recent.

>>162068831
> beast mode
I enjoy the rebuilds but I have some serious issues with the whole beast mode being this power the pilots can fucking trigger
It just doesn't seem right

File: IMG_0672.jpg (20KB, 200x255px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 200x255px

>>162071779
> asuka with a masculine chin

>>162081210
>>162081350
>>162081395
Being overly, almost unsettlingly familiar is a character trait of Mari's that was established in 2.22. Whether or not that was just for Shinji, If she's buddies with Asuka now, and we see her lounge on her lap like that then it's not exactly a massive surprise.

And I've not seen anything where Asuka appears to reciprocate. Of course... she's Asuka, but what I mean is that this >>162081350 and this >>162081395 are hardly equivalent. Shinji and Kaworu are practically entangled, while Mari just has her head on Asuka's lap because that's how Mari is.

>>162081210
And with this one, aren't there multiple and more nuanced reasons for them to be arranged how they are besides "Asuka and Mari are lovers"?

Mari barely knows Rei, I think in all of Rebuild they've only interacted once, in 2.22 when Rei throws Mari out of the way in an act of self sacrifice. Meanwhile, Asuka and Mari are partners in 3.33. They're more likely to have a friendly rivalry (if you can call Asuka looking bizarrely angry and Mari looking all "what's your problem" that when we have no context). In fact, are you even sure this is post-3.33?

Besides, we can throw that out the window because a more obvious reason that it's framed how it is, is that Asuka and Mari are expressive and Rei isn't, which is why Rei's a little behind looking at them perplexed while they're expressing their emotions.

>>162082093
You're in denial. If you think Asuka resting her head in Mari's lap isn't gods gift to yuri fans, then there is no cure for your stupidity other than a bullet to the head.

Despite the undeniable logic I've presented along with the easy to find evidence backing it up, you still want to deny the truth.

You are making excuses instead of looking what's before you. Not healthy. Your rebuttals even prove me right - is Asuka and Mari promoted together, both in the series and merchandise? YES!

My case is proven.

>>162082550
>If you think Asuka resting her head in Mari's lap isn't gods gift to yuri fans
What picture have you been looking at

>>162058904
>Give me a reason to hate this film.

it's not very good.

>>162058904
the beginning of the film was very very shit, but I suppose that's the point because I guess they wanted you to feel as confused and shitty as Shinji was.

Rebuild of "Rebuild of Evangelion" when?

>2.0fags still exist even after being BTFO by based Colony Drop
http://www.colonydrop.com/hideaki-anno-is-trying-to-kill-anime-and/

>>162082656
It's the oppsite. Mari resting her head in Asuka's lap. Names got switched, woop woop.

File: even when she's trying to be nice.jpg (122KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 1920x1080px

>>162082093
>Mari barely knows Rei, I think in all of Rebuild they've only interacted once, in 2.22 when Rei throws Mari out of the way in an act of self sacrifice.
Did Rei even know that wasn't Asuka? Because she's never addressed Asuka by anything but "EVA-02" or "pilot of EVA-02".

>>162082862
>it's this autist again

/a/ confirmed for good taste. 3.33 is the worst thing to happen to Evangelion, ever. Even worse than Mari.

File: url.jpg (257KB, 949x929px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 949x929px

It's simply disgusting, I don't even need to explain.

File: eye_violence.png (73KB, 242x364px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 242x364px

I just finished NGE. Am I a pleb for being disappointed with the lack of character development outside of dream sequences?

>>162083752
Not really. On to EoE it is. Sadly Hideaki Anno died right after making it.

>>162058904
OP is giga faggot.

>>162083752
In the tv ending, its not exactly a dream sequence, but rather a hivemins they got stuck on.
We dont ever SEE the characters being better people, if thats what you wanted, not even on EoE.
But the decisions they make and the development in their mind is the very point of the endings.

>>162083752
Nah

>>162084122
>>162083883
I feel like Shinji picking the fruit of knowledge over the fruit of life would've make more sense if he had grown even a little bit of spine. Him starting the show and going up through 90% of EoE as the same person doesn't really click in my mind.

It also bugged me that he never had any sort of conversation with Papa

>>162083752
>>162084122
Also, i forgot to say one thing.
Its on purpose not showing said development become concrete changes in their behavior.
The ending, specially EoE, is open ended and you are supposed to make your own conclusion about what the characters make with said development. Do they carry on and become better people? Do they step back in weakness and return to their old ways?
Its up to you to decide

>>162084253
What are you talking about? Picking fruits?

>>162084337
?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. EoE's ending was about the Garden of Eden. Shinji could've returned humanity to Eden and restored perpetual bliss at the cost of any self-awareness or identity, but he chose to chose to eat from the apple and maintain man's ability to improve itself and make moral judgement at the cost of self-conciousness and pain. Haven't you ever read Genesis mate?

>>162074855
my sides

>>162084819
That is dumb. You are dumb.

>>162085145
No you're dumb fagget
Prove me wrong

>muh AsukaxMari
Kek, I don't like that red cunt.

>>162062813
I truly wish that in 3.0+1.0 the only thing we see is this: shinji asking himself without getting nothing clear.

they took the eva we know and love and turned it into something unrecognizable
you knew shit was gonna be dumb when they used the whole "curse of the eva" cop out just because they didn't want to age up the characters

>>162073280
>prudish burger crying because exposed skin
You should be in the McChurch tipping your televangelist, not shitposting here.

File: anno_hates_you.png (165KB, 1226x1550px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 1226x1550px

>>162073280
>he doesn't know