ITT: Shows that people say are overrated but actually aren't

What is Monster?

>>161792312
overrated

>>161792080
DBZ is pretty much the pinnacle of battle shounen. People only say its overrated because of how popular it is.

I'm assuming you only mean DBZ and not Super as well.

>>161792394
I should hope so, Super is trash. The Goku character assassination is ridiculous.

>>161792312
Rating Monster higher than a 2/10 is already overrating it.

I would rather gouge my eyes out than watching that snorefest ever again.

>>161792357
The manga, yeah, I agree.

The anime, while it adapts the important moments gloriously, it's sadly fucked up by horrendous filler.

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>>161792080
deserved all the praised it got in 2016

>>161792665
Oh boy here we go.

>>161792432

Can confirm. Thought was overrated, then watched. 10/10.

>>161792357
Battle shounen suck, though.

>>161792432
Same as >>161792693.
I started watching ~10 years ago with some friends, for some reason got distracted, didn't go past episode 10 or so. Came back to it a year ago, put the time in, and wow. Just wow. Space opera to end all space operas.

>>161792357

Pinnacle =/= first.

Dragonball is the first, not the best.

>>161792722
Fuck off. Like any other genre, it can be whatever a particular author makes of it.

>>161792876
Name a single better battle shonen and justify it then.

>>161792357
Some anime have done the battle shonen thing better since then. Yu Yu Hakusho's Dark Tournament arc is one of the best in the genre as an example. YYH would've been 10/10 if Togashi wasn't so strange. Dragonball gets a lot of shit though, and the manga did a lot of great things.

>>161792357
I went back to read through DB and DBZ recently and it really doesn't hold up anywhere except the art. It needed to exist for us to get where we are now, but if it'd released today and got compared to what we've seen since, it definitely wouldn't get as much love.

I mean, I respect it for what it did, but it seriously doesn't do anything well aside from having amazing art for the fights.

>>161792926

One Piece has a better developed world, retains the sense of adventure that made dragonball actually fun, has a broader range of character abilities which leads to more interesting confrontations and thus far hasn't devolved to having the fights be the driving force of the narrative, there are fights sure, but the whole story isn't about getting to them.

>>161793102
Not him but where's the best place to read OP? I haven't read anything since the timeskip and want to get back into it.

>>161793102
>One Piece
And you fucked up in your first try.
>has a better developed world
Yes, agreed. That alone doesn't make it a better manga.
>has a broader range of character abilities which leads to more interesting confrontations
One Pieces's range of abilities don't make the fights any more interesting than DB's, simply because Oda has no idea about how to structure a fight, his choreography has never been stellar, but it has degraded to shit and he paces them horribly. I can't say I remember any single OP fight as being as iconic and memorable as several DB ones.
>and thus far hasn't devolved to having the fights be the driving force of the narrative
Every arc in OP is resolved with a big dumb fight anyway, and they're incredibly formulaic at that.
The problem here is that while OP is far more of an adventure manga than DB,it still has to adhere to Oda wanting to resolve every important conflict with a fight, but the fights aren't interesting or well-made enough for that. As a result, and even though several arcs are arguably not about the fights themselves, they still end up being the climax the particular arc is building towards anyway.

>>161792432
I was about to post it.
It's really good.

>>161792312
>60 episodes of filler and episodic side character arcs

>>161793443
>One Pieces's range of abilities don't make the fights any more interesting than DB's, simply because Oda has no idea about how to structure a fight,

Yeah well I wonder if Toriyama even understands what a fight is half the time.

>>161794232
>Yeah well I wonder if Toriyama even understands what a fight is half the time.
If you have to wonder about this, you either lack the ability to read, or you're literally blind. Very few mangakas can convey action in such a clean and easy to follow manner as Toriyama.

>>161794317

Keep sucking that dragon dick

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>>161794455
>no argument
Like pottery

>>161792900
Battle shounen isn't even a proper/normal genre. The normal genre would be action, or maybe "fighting series." Can an action series be good? Certainly. Can an action series be good and then be published in a shounen magazine? Why not. But if I put Vagabond or Berserk in a shounen magazine, people would probably still protest to applying the term "battle shounen." Hell, Dorohedoro's moving to a shounen magazine, but I don't expect anyone will start calling it a battle shounen. This is because the term is bizarrely specific compared to most genres, and seems to imply more about the actual content/structure rather than just the broad topic/focus, and this makes it exceptionally difficult to make a good work of that kind, because it's so limiting and generic almost by nature.

>>161792080
I agree. Nobody really likes DBZ so it can't be overrated. It's like saying that Mirai Nikki and SAO are overrated.

>>161794552
>nobody really likes DB
>has like 5 threads on /a/
>has an 8.30 on MAL
Are you real?

>>161794619
Yes. People only think it's good because of nostalgia.

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>>161792080
>thought this was overrated just by word of mouth so never watched it until recently
I have never seen something that was so universally acclaimed only to have hoards of people pull up to collect their contrarian street cred so much that it ironically became the contrarian thing to say it's not overrated.

>>161792357
Pedro pls

>>161794925
But it is overrated. Episodes 3-14 are horrible.

>>161794979
>Episodes 3-14 are amazing
FTFY
If you seriously dislike the foundation and build up of every character arc, I don't have a clue how you can like the destruction that follows in 15-26

>>161795064
Because it's much more enjoyable to watch serious and meaningful stuff than a bunch of cunts just bickering with eachother.

>>161794667
>MUH NOSTALGIA
Well that's one strawman down.Inb4 plebbit.

>>161795319
I don't think you know what a strawman is.

>>161792615
What makes Kai shit then?

>>161795360
The lack of the original anime soundtrack.

>>161792080
Cell saga is the definition of overrated

>>161792876
>Dragonball is the first
No
Hokuto no Ken predates it

>>161792323
>>161792546
>>161794206
Kill yourself you fucking memers
Monster is a fucking masterpiece

>>161794232
>I wonder if Toriyama even understands what a fight is half the time.
Oh the fucking irony
I don't remember a single One Piece fight whereas I can remember Dragon Ball fights pretty damn clearly.

>>161795943
>everyone who disagrees with me is a "fucking memer"
I'm none of them, and I dropped Monster ~30-40 chapters in because it was basically a patchwork of unexceptional small family dramas.

>>161795360
Kai feels like a dumb fan project than a professional work

>>161795976
>I dropped Monster ~30-40 chapters in because I'm too much of an unintelligent pleb to follow its brilliant and complex storytelling
>Oh and where is my fapbait. I can't enjoy a manga/anime if there's no fapbait
ftfy

I'm trying to get a friend into Dragon Ball, is it better to watch subbed Z if you skip stuff like the Garlic Jnr arc, or is Kai just all around better?

Dragon Ball was good, and as it doesn't get as much ''oh wow db amirite!'' it isn't overrated.
DBZ on the other hand is overrated as fuck for what it is and should've ended whole franchise on Namek. It is not horrible, but really not that great either.

>>161796037
You fucking had me, anon, and then you just go and toss it away by being that obvious? 4/8.

>>161792080
>pic unrelated

>>161793443
whatever Db is just energy lasers and punchs out of nowhere plus Dbs is actually ruining it

>>161792427
Super's Goku is perfectly consisted with how he's always been.

It's FUNi that did the character assassination, turning him into Superman.

And it will never be funny how saly burgers get over Super not portraying Goku as "light of the universe" or whatever.

>>161792080
Literally every popular show except for a handful.
Most popular shows have some redeeming factors, even long running shows with low/mid budget.

When it comes to ACTUAL overrated I think of Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, Boku no Pico Academia, Dragon Trash Super and SAO.
They receive more acclaim/popularity than they deserve.

>>161794925
>I have never seen something that was so universally acclaimed only to have hoards of people pull up to collect their contrarian street cred so much that it ironically became the contrarian thing to say it's not overrated

You've never seen Cowboy Bebop?

>>161792080
Every DBZ thread you guys go on about how overrated the Cell Saga is though. You've started going apeshit towards anyone who says they like anything from pre-Saiyan Saga stuff too nowadays.

>>161796304

>Most popular shows have some redeeming factors, even long running shows with low/mid budget.

Pretty much this. A lot of people seem to have very narrow minded views on what makes a show good and almost never try to look at anything from different perspectives

>>161792080
Actually you're right, because nobody thinks it's the best thing ever besides literal children and nostalgiatards.

>>161792926
Rurouni Kenshin but only the manga, the anime was ruined by filler. It had a frequently engaging plot, compelling characters, deep themes and villains with actual motives instead of "durr im evil" and the action was pretty good too. Hell the Trust and Betrayal OVA was far better than anything with Dragon Ball in the title.

And Yu Yu Hakusho, which took the DBZ formula and improved every aspect of it. The final arc was meh but still better than anything DBZ related since the Cell saga.

And let's not forget Fist of the North Star, which pioneered the shonen genre before Dragon Ball existed.

I don't know it counts as "battle shonen" but Full Metal Alchemist, yes even the original anime that diverged from the manga is still better than all of DBZ.

I didn't like Gurren Lagann as much as most people do but I'd still take it over DBZ any day of the week.

>>161796301
This. Goku was always a selfish manchild who put fighting and food above everything else, including the wellbeing of his friends and family. That was the real reason he let Vegeta go in the saiyan saga, because he hoped to one day have a rematch.

>>161796418
Personally I think the Freeza saga is bar none the most overrated part of the whole franchise. The Freeza fight in particular being completely boring and tedious. The only part of it I liked were the Ginyu Force.

>>161792312
Monster (モンスター Monsutā, sometimes referred to as "Naoki Urasawa's Monster") is a Japanese manga series written and illustrated by Naoki Urasawa. ... The manga was adapted by Madhouse into a 74-episode anime TV series, which aired on NTV from April 2004 to September 2005.

>>161792080
OPM
I haven't read it until recently because of how much I heard that it's overrated and it's all about the "one punch" .
But the story is much more than that and is actually good and comfy at some times

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Original Naruto isn't that bad, it had an interesting story, colorful characters, surprisingly deep messages and the fights were pretty cool too. Shippuden though, yeah I agree with the consensus on that one. The only good parts of it were Danzo and Kakuzu.

>>161796081
Subbed Z is better don't skip filler either(Garlic Jr isn't that bad and it's only around 10 episodes or so)
Kai is garbage

>>161796091
>should've ended whole franchise on Namek.
This
After Namek DBZ went to shit
Namek/Freeza saga was the last time it felt like Dragon Ball

>>161796418
Cell Saga ruined Dragon Ball

>>161796778
>Trust and Betrayal OVA was far better than anything with Dragon Ball in the title.
This is not fair and you know it
Dragon Ball anime never never had such a big budget with such great talent working on it

Personally I can't name a better battle shonen than Dragon Ball(up until Freeza anyways...Cell-onwards is complete trash)...though Mankin which is highly fucking underrated comes really damn close

>>161796778
FMA is trash
Hokuto no Ken didn't pioneer shit, there were other pre-cursors like Kinnikuman, Devilman and such
Gurren Laggan is trash and it's not a battle shonen it's a generic Gundam show that reddit worships

>>161797769
History of Trunks tho

>>161797800
>FMA is trash
Still better than DBZ.
>Hokuto no Ken didn't pioneer shit, there were other pre-cursors like Kinnikuman, Devilman and such
I stand corrected, but then neither did DBZ.
>Gurren Laggan is trash and it's not a battle shonen it's a generic Gundam show that reddit worships
Fair enough.

>>161792357
I've watched DB series (DB/Z/GT), and the fights didn't seem interesting.

>>161797839
>Still better than DBZ
No it isn't
And I was talking about Dragon Ball(the original manga) as a whole not just the DBZ part

It's maybe better than Cell-onwards but that's it

>>161797816
The only good think about History of Trunks is a version of Gohan that isn't a faggot

After Trunks kills Freeza DBZ goes downhill hard. That's pretty much the last cool moment in the Dragon Ball series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1seVzmeM-8

>>161797857
>watched
That's where you went wrong
Read the manga. They're the best drawn fights you'll ever see in a manga.

>>161792991
It's not just the art that made the fights great, it was Toriyama's exceptional panelling and coreography.

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>>161792357

>le pinnacle of battle shounen.

no, its fucking horrible, the side characters are put into irrelevancy, the fights have no actual creativity put into them and its the worst power creep of all, sure, it might have been alright during DB, and freeza even, but EVERYTHING after freeza is just recycled, uncreative trash.

list of battle shounen done better

-fist of the fucking northstar
-rurouni kenshin
-yuyu hakusho
-saint seya (anime)
-Jojo battle tendency
-fucking one piece

the only reason DBZ became a thing is the same as bleach, nothing but cliffhangers for the low-common denominator, but once you graduate kindergarden and watch other battle shonen shows, you realize the glaring flaws of it and how terrible and elitist its fanbase (which is nothing but casuals) is.

>>161795967

you remember dragon ball fihts clearly because they last for thousand of fucking chapters, not because they are good.

oda is too busy building worlds, settings, countries and jokes besides his fights and making an actual story instead of power autistic level bullshit.

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>>161792926
I like Keijo better, we probably differ in why we like our series though.

>>161798256
This is bullshit
You're completely discounting Dragon Ball here
The original manga was called "Dragon Ball"

Yeah it sucks after Freeza but that's still 300+ chapter of GOAT-tier Battle Shonen right there

>>161798291
>you remember dragon ball fihts clearly because they last for thousand of fucking chapters
Somebody clearly hasn't read the manga and has only watched the anime

>>161798291
Also Oda worships Tori and he'd slap your shit if he ever heard you badmouthing DB

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>>161798300
On a second thought, I should've posted this instead.

>>161798256
>one piece
opinion discarded

>>161798305
Not that fag, but the guy he replied to said DBZ and the OP pic has SSJ versions in it. It's not a stretch to assume we are gonna be talking about Z.

>>161798381
But if you're comparing it to other series such as YYH, HnK, RuroKen etc. it's only fair to compare them to the whole manga and not just the 2nd part

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>>161798256
le fix your le shitty taste

>>161798360

>not being able to see how much merits OP has over DBZ

mentally underage third world country retard plz go.

>>161798347

I don't give a shit who he worships, I actually rate shows based on their merits and not their author's opinions, like an actual critic should, and If I actually met oda irl I wouldn't mind disagreeing with whatever he would tell me.

>>161798462

DBZ is trash and you are trash

>>161794925
>universally acclaimed
good to hear that you put other people's opinions and numbers above yours.

>>161798479
One Piece is trash. Terrible art, terrible fights, terrible story, terrible characters, terrible powers. It drags for millions of years too. In 5 years in DB Goku was already a fucking adult while Luffy and the gang are still 17 and the "plot" moves at a snail's pace.
If it wasn't for DB it wouldn't exist either.

>>161797229
>Saitama vs. Boros
"oooh best fight ever"
>the characters don't do anything smart

No battle shonen will ever get me as hype as Dragon Ball during the Tenkaichi Budokai sagas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8JwUGR9Sok

>>161798151
Yes it is. It's better than the incredibly overrated Freeza saga too.

>>161798179
The android saga was worth it just for the Piccolo vs #17 fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gTOImLRJnA

>>161798571

you are trash and you know nothing about what makes a good story if you think goku being an adult in 5 years matters more than the gigantic world of kingdoms, lore, revolutions and races that one piece has built in its legacy

>b..but DB preceeded OP..!

I dont care.

>>161792432
God damn, this

Don't know whats more annoying: idiots who call it overrated without having watched it or those who call it overrated just for their hipster status and to make themselves look with superior taste (because everyone knows good taste means shitting on everything indiscriminately)

>>161793102
>>161796778
None of these were as culturally impactful and profitable.
Here's the thing: nobody cares about your opinions or what you consider "good". The only objective barometers are influence, impact and profit.
DBZ is the GOAT battle shonen in these regards. Arguing opinions, what's better or worse, is for brainlets who don't understand what matters.

>>161799359
So then why the fuck did you even bother asking if you're just going to dismiss every answer because "muh sales"

>DBZ is the GOAT battle shonen in these regards

Not in sales it isn't, it was surpassed by One Piece years ago. Also Fist of the North Star was every bit as influential if not even more so.

>>161799614
I didn't ask, someone else did. I was correcting.

>Not in sales it isn't, it was surpassed by One Piece years ago.

Not entirely straightforward as you seem to imply. One Piece surpassed it by merit of longevity. Dragon Ball – within the same time frame – sold more copies. Had it continued at that rough pace, it would still be firmly ahead of One Piece.
Not to mention that's JUST manga sales. We all know DB's global presence dwarfs that of OP. It's the only Battle Shonen to really make it to the world stage.

>Also Fist of the North Star was every bit as influential if not even more so.

k e k

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>>161799359
>Fist of the North Star
>Not influential

Call me when someone from Dragonball has a real life funeral and when it inspired more than two manga. Fist of the North Star might not be the first battle shounen ever (it may as well be though) but it is by far the best and will always remain that way. Best story, best art, best fights, best everything.

>>161799648
> One Piece surpassed it by merit of longevity.

Longevity is irrelevant, as there are series that ran for decades longer than either DB or OP yet still sold less overall.

>We all know DB's global presence dwarfs that of OP.

But it's old news now. The general public/normies have since moved onto other anime.

>k e k

It's true, it came before DB and definitely did its part to influence the genre.

>>161799669
Didn't say it wasn't influential, just not nearly as DBZ. Learn to read.

>>161799738
>Longevity is irrelevant,

Nope. We're gauging impact and popularity. When you're attempt to assert sales numbers are definitive and objective whilst setting aside run-time as if that has no bearing on popularity or impact in certain spans, longevity is key, dummy.

>as there are series that ran for decades longer than either DB or OP yet still sold less overall.

Duh. Irrelevant, though.

>But it's old news now. The general public/normies have since moved onto other anime.

DBS is currently the most popular anime on planet earth.

>It's true, it came before DB and definitely did its part to influence the genre.

DB is more influential by merit of popularity.

>>161799359
>The only objective barometers are influence, impact and profit.
No it isn't. Quality and success are two different things, I know /a/ is addicted to dicksucking others for free and having no opinions of their own nowadays but you can atleast follow the chain of replies in this thread to follow what was being talked about.

>>161798619
>>the characters don't do anything smart
Does it have to be a "smart" fight to be good?
I liked it because it reminds me of the old DBZ fights

>>161799815
I'm not discussing quality because it's not relevant. I don't care care what you personally think about these shows, dummy.

>>161799836
>I'm not discussing quality
Everyone else in this thread including the OP is.

>>161795832
Only amerilards defends this saga.

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>>161799814
OP surpassed DB ages ago. The recent revival in form of DBS made it even more apparent. Even though I like the old DB, I cannot think of a single aspect that actually counts, where it would be better than OP.

>>161799900
Yes, in manga sales, thanks to longevity. DB sold more in equivalent time-frames, though, as it was more popular overall. Keep up, this is basic mathematics.

> The recent revival in form of DBS made it even more apparent

You mean where it re-asserted itself on a global stage while OP is stuck within the confines of a shitty little island?
OP has surpassed DB by precisely one metric due entirely to longevity. If you have statistics to prove otherwise, hand them over. Otherwise, I'll just keep blowing you back by reminding you DB is the only battle shonen to crack genuine global popularity.

>>161798787
Freeza Saga was the last time Dragon Ball was good
Cell Saga is the one that's overrated not Namek/Freeza

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>>161798842
>Wan Piss fag being this assblasted

>>161799836
It's literally a discussion about the quality and merits of these series you moron . It's not specific to DB but you guys always redirect these discussions into popularity and sales for some reason. Maybe because it's something you can talk about without having to actually be familiar with any of the shit being discussed, I don't know.

>>161799850
>>161800013
Quality is irrelevant when discerning the GOAT. I'm just redirecting you to the discussion worth having. Trifling arguments of opinion and bias are needless.

>>161799614
>Not in sales it isn't, it was surpassed by One Piece years ago.
LOL NO
You're only counting manga sales. Which BTW One Piece has twice as many volumes as DB does and only barely sold better than DB

DB is far more successful overall especially on a global scale
Whereas One Piece isn't even as popular as Naruto globally.

>>161799977
Not the anon you've been arguing before.,I don't give a fuck about sales or popularity. I meant pure quality of storytelling, characterisation, wordbuilding and last, but not least - serving as an example for future series in the genre.
And even if we wanted to focus on sales, it's pretty stupid, considering how much the market has changed since the 90s. If anything, it's incredible OP managed to outsell everything by a wide margin for so many years.

>>161800347
Well then you need to have sex and stop watching anime

>>161799836
>w-wasn't even talking about what everyone else was anyway!
uh huh.

>>161800865
>interjects something different
>"i wasn't talking about that retard"
>"u-uh huh"

wan piss fag destroyed