Was magic a mistake?

>>161292142
Considering everything related to magic, especially EP8 was a downfall, yes.

>>161292142
Magic is not real.

>>161292142
How can magic be a mistake if it doesn't exist?

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Yes.

goats were a mistake

Magic exist, tho. Inside of ourselves.

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You know I'm a witch, right?

>>161294263
would still fuck

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>>161292142
This perfect little angel wouldn't exist without it so no.

>>161294465
That's a man, baby.

>>161294527
would still fuck

>>161294568
Same.

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Everything after episode 5 was a mistake

>>161292142
You say that as if Higurashi didn't have magic in the end.
>lemme repeat the years until everyone somehow has memories of the previous worlds which isn't realistic
>oh and let me just pluck that bullet from the air so that no one dies

>>161294701
higurashi was never about whether magic was real though, that kakera has demon magic as a fact since the whole witches thing hadn't been written yet.

>>161294660
hard to continue after your best buddy/proofreader dies

>>161292142
I love this anime
but the higurashi one is better.

Anyone else who played with sound off? The voices got annoying after minutes

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>>161294263

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>>161294701
Time travel itself is magic.
I like it though. The solution itself is human and can be solved in a human way. But there's still tons of magic around the conspiracy mystery. A Deus Ex from the established god character.
Reminds me of Twin Peaks.

But if you don't like that apparently the DS or something ends differently where Hanyuu dies taking the bullet.

>>161294701
Looks like someone doesn't believe in miracles.

This got way too fucking meta to follow what was actually happening.

chiru was mistake

>>161295122
>voices

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>>161292142
I want to deito Lucifer.

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>>161298150
Since magic exists in Higurashi, does that mean Maria was right in the end?

Reminder Yasu did nothing wrong, and everything is Kinzo's fault.

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>>161292258
Without love it can't be seen.

Once again it goes like this

Real World as in (you)
1st meta world -Featherine
Real World of When they cry verse
Meta world
Game world

So yes magic is real but what happens in the stories is not really magic.

So if you're asking who is the writer Featherine or Hachijo it's Featherine writing a character writing herself.

>>161292142
MAGIC DOESN'T EXIST
WITCHES AREN'T REAL

>>161294660
Hey, the EP6 finale was one of the best.

OH

>>161294660
Episode 7 - best episode.

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>1986+31
>still believing in magic

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>>161294527
Leave it to Battler to find that out by a closer inspection.

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Recommend a book for this unread plebeian

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>>161292142
Posting best Seacat.

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I still use horror.wav as my notification sound

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>>161306539
Nope.

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>>161292258
DELET DIS

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>>161292258
love is magic
love is real

therefore magic is real

without love it cannot be seen

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>>161311648
Love aint real, its just a mesh of chemicals

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>>161311831

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>>161294263
>>161297414
Time for the Batora Inquisition

>>161301057
>>161311648
Say it in Red, motherfuckers. I dare you.

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>>161312393
>he wants people to use something as hurtful as Red Truth
no thanks

>>161311831
You're not real, you're just a mesh of chemicals.

>>161311831
You aint real, you're just a mesh of nerves, bones and muscles.

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>>161312584
>he can't accept the Truth

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>>161312867
>.....of sorts

I'm not sacrificing my blissful happiness for your bullshitery, witch!

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Since the 10th anniversary just happened, what's the likelihood of a new anime being announced?

>>161313469
you can't just hope for ufotable to fix every deen's mistake

>>161292142
>mfw still can't see it
Somebody love me already.

>>161311648
>love is magic
that's a false equivalency
magic requires love but magic isn't the very concept of love and doesn't exist

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>>161313961
nah, love is the strongest kind of magic

>>161313882
you're not supposed to be loved to see it
you're supposed to be the one to love

>>161314448
Yeah, so get kissing mister

>>161314678
oh, so shallow in your stagnant understanding of what love is

If love is magic then why hasn't my waifu become real?
Checkmate, witches.

>>161314395
>magic ending
>Battler makes out with the tranny responsible for his family's death right after it happened
LOVE

>>161314905
she'll be real once you reach Golden Land

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Love is when someone makes your heart beat faster.

Love is an unconditional feeling that makes you do things you'd never do otherwise.

Love is when you see the true nature of someone and the image resonates with your soul.

Love is when you become who you were meant to be.

Love is the true nature of the world.

I love you, Lucifer. With all of my heart and soul.

>>161311831
Fuck off woolie.

>>161315139
Love is when you murder your entire family and all the servants because a 13 year old guy promised you a pony.

>>161315576
i didnt know someone promised rudolf and kyrie a pony

>>161315576
I never said love was reasonable.

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>>161292142
Yes, yes it was

>>161294660
True.

>>161294814
>hard to continue after your best buddy/proofreader dies
Also true.

>>161315576
And because the servants forced you into servitude as a child before suddenly revealing that you're Kinzo's kid at the moment of his death right in front of your eyes

And because the servants reveal to you that you're really a boy with mangled genitals and are blood related to the guy you fell in love with

And this was all caused by Natsuhi who pushed you off of a cliff

And you get to watch the siblings bitch at each other and in some cases abuse their children every year

>>161315693
>>161315622

so, how come Ricordando in Pace became so popular, outside of Umineko fanbase?

>>161315993
The what now?

>>161315993
Did it?

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>tfw you have never been in love
Man, its so annoying to see people whaffle over love in either songs, movies etc.

>>161316166
You'll understand one day anon. Love is for all of us. One day you'll love and understand magic.

>>161316158
yeah it counts views on par with regular normie music and most comments under it are people asking what umineko is

>>161316166
Love is beautiful, until it isnt.
The physical experience sucks though

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>>161316281
>physical experience

>>161315993
Oh shit I can barely listen to that song. I loved this story so much when that music hit me I cried like a baby bitch. It's really good.

>>161315993
Well it's one of the most genuinely beautiful sounding songs ever written

>>161316281
What do you mean anon?

>>161316535
Loving someone and being loved is a perfect experience that cant be expressed in words. That is until things start going to shit because all wonderful things must end.
The physical experience can be described as underwhelming at best.

>>161311831
HYPOCRITE THAT YOU ARE

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>>161316665
>>161312607
>>161312735
Clearly my mesh of chemicals is superior to your mesh as my mesh acknowledges its true form

>>161316641
You've had some bad experiences anon, don't let that define true love. True love lasts until the moment you die and after.

>>161315856
>servitude
That was just education. He barely had real tasks which is why the other servants were jealous.

>before suddenly revealing that you're Kinzo's kid at the moment of his death right in front of your eyes
>because the servants reveal to you that you're really a boy with mangled genitals and are blood related to the guy you fell in love with
ok that was dumb
doesn't justify anything though

>And this was all caused by Natsuhi who pushed you off of a cliff
How do they even know? Why would they tell him?

>And you get to watch the siblings bitch at each other and in some cases abuse their children every year
Really justifies murdering them all including fucking MARIA

>>161316993
>i decide how the character felt despite what the author say and how depression is portrayed in the novel

The truth is that love can make you do really bad things, most often it's murder. In the story it wasn't just love. It was the life the culprit lived that attributed to it. You can say no to the story all you want, it doesn't change. Love is the most beautiful thing in the world that can make you do the most inhuman things, the story portrayed this very well I think.

>>161316965
Not that anon but then the other party kicks the bucket before you. Maybe with luck you will live alone for at least 20 or so years, maybe even more with life extension

>>161317159
>>i decide how the character felt despite what the author say and how depression is portrayed in the novel
Who are you quoting? I'm just stating facts. It wasn't "servitude". If Yasu has a mental illness (actually he has multiple ones), that doesn't justify anything he does. The so-called love is just a buzzword to whitewash the premeditated mass homicide of adults and children by a crazy asshole.

>>161317271
your argument would probably be right if sayo actually killed anyone but herself

>>161317271
I'm quoting you. You don't get to define what justifies anything. You are not in position of the character, you are looking at your screen, sitting in your room playing critic without love. Have some imagination and compassion and maybe you'll see.

>>161317434
>set the bombs
>loaded the guns
>prepared the plans
>would have done it if they hadn't solved the epitaph
Still responsible.

>>161317489
>j-just have love and compassion and you'll see
>you don't get to judge or have an opinion that doesn't suck Yasu's mutilated cock for his love homicides
t. Ryukishi07

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>>161317489
>Have some imagination and compassion
>literally in love with three people (who are all related to Yasu) at the same time and treats murdering their family like it's a "love duel" game to determine who's the most worthy of them

>>161294660
EP 7 Tea Party

>>161317738
Y-YASU DINDU NUFFIN HE NEEDED THAT LOVE FOR HIS PROGRAMS

>>161317588
>Still responsible.

actually not how law works
voluntary dissent results in non-penalization

the fact someone else picked up prepared means doesnt hold her responsible in terms of criminal justice

t. law graduate

>>161318132
Premeditation is a crime if you implement your plan. Turning the bombs on and loading the guns counts.

>>161317738
>plot twist

is the author of pic rel retarded? how can something theorized as early as EP2 if i recall be a "twist"?

>>161318317
Shannontrice and Shkanon on their own were figured out early on, but the fanbase had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Shkanontrice during EP6 due to how retarded both of them being true at the same time was.

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>>161318450
>shannon, kanon are the same person and also the culprit!
>maybe! but that sounds too stupid to be true!
>it actually is!
>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Looks like Rifyu needs to be posted to purge the stupid whining again

>>161299910
I'm pretty sure magic IS real in the frachise, just as Featherine, Bernkastel and Lambdadelta are. Lambdadelta also helped Beatrice to create her own gameboard separated from the human world.
How much magic can affect the human world DIRECTLY is debatable though. In Higurashi it allowed Rika consciousness to travel between paralell worlds but I don't think it could actually resurrect people or anything.

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>>161318566
Well, it was indefensively stupid, to the point of turning Umineko into a joke in the eyes of most fans. Pic related.

>>161300180
I'm dying.
What are Celebi and Haunter supposed to be though?

>>161318730
>turning Umineko into a joke in the eyes of most fans

and this is one last thing i respect r07 for
he had all the opportunity to turn this story into fanfic tier shit, by appeasing to his widely vocal fanbase (considering how deep connection between r07 and his fanbase is, he actually spends a lot of time on discussion platforms for his works) and yet he decided to ignore all "reasonable" theories and with the one he intended to begin with, not wavering to the popular opinion of what "good" ending would be

isn't this what the whole episode 8 taught us? fuck the goats

>>161318838
This is stupid . and funny

>>161318730
What do bomb crumpets taste like?
I'm thinking about making some for my upcoming family meeting but I don't know if they'll like them.
Anyone have any tips?

Give me all the Rifyu

All

>>161318912
8 was more R07 having an autistic breakdown then anything

>>161318912
>he had all the opportunity to turn this story into fanfic tier shit
He already did that in EP5 by making Battler fall in love with Beatrice again despite EP3 being all about mocking the idea of it. The more reasonable theory of Kyrie being the true culprit ended up being the truth in the end, too.

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Would a combination of the best about EP 6, 7 and 8 have been a better ending for the series?
I'm still angry about EP6 being cancelled at the second twilight just as EP5. In EP5 it was unexpected and had a good impact on me at least, but in EP6 I just felt robbed. I wanted to see all of Battler's game goddammit.

>>161318992
atleast he was an autist who did his thing, instead of created an ending ripped off some popular fanfic like many authors do

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>>161319043
>The more reasonable theory of Kyrie being the true culprit ended up being the truth in the end, too

I mean, not really. That was just another game, one of infinite possibilities in a catbox, whose answer is that there is no answer.

Although that's extremely fucking unclear, and is a result of R07's last 3 episodes being the most dodgy case of unreliable narrator ever conceived with at least 3 different groups trying to trick eachother through the writing.

>>161319106
Eh, I like his work, I just hate the ending and everything it stands for.

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>>161319043
Umineko should have had ended at EP4

>>161315993
That's not how it's called.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFyzTtKNzYI

>>161318879
cute

>>161319043
>The more reasonable theory of Kyrie
if i recall correctly Rosetrice was the most popular one

ofcourse that was like 8/9 years ago so my memory might be jaded, but still i believe /seacats/ and animesuki umineko megathread was all about Rosetrice theory

>>161319172
Manga shows that it's the real truth. It's the logical outcome to all of what we've been shown from the adults and their inability to look past their hatred for each other.

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>>161319072
Remove EP5 and 6 (pointless filler arcs with a ridiculous evil strawman detective that were only there for some extra clues and shipper pandering), replace Will with Battler in EP7, and have EP8 play out like the manga, and you basically get a vastly improved version of Chiru.

>>161319209
Rosetrice was a meme theory that was only ever popular during EP2 and among the cultists of a certain delusional Youtuber after Umineko was already over. Kyrie being the culprit of EP3 and EP4 was the most popular theory.

"I can't deal with serious stories about love because I have never experienced it in real life and makes me unconfortable so I prefer cliched harem shit and shonen battles."

t. chiru hater

>>161319267
nice

>>161319380
>I prefer cliched harem shit and shonen battles
That's literally Chiru, though.

>>161319380
No, Chiru haters read spoilers from before it was translated/never bothered to reread and look at the connections after the fact so that they could just wallow in their butthurt almost a decade later.

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>>161319267
I like Will but what was the point of him existing? Instead of Battler or Erica resolving the whole thing we have a new character appear and resolve it out of nowhere.

>>161319380
>stories about love
But the only romance is in T7. The rest is just shoving Beatrice into your throat.

Thankfully 1-5 are still great.

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>>161319380
Have you actually read the thing you are currently defending?

>>161319526
Battler was too late, that was an important emotional decision. Erika doesn't exist and was a bitch who couldn't possibly get it.

>>161294701
Higurashi was actually good though.

>>161319560
Beatrice is actually a lolcow if you look at it objectively

"lol calm down" would be an efficient answer to most of her challenges

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>>161294701
>literal Gods exist
>bitching about magic

10/10

>>161319586
Are you fucking kidding me?

Half the whole shit was slice of life bullshit and the conclusion was fucking retarded.

Higurashi stinks.

>>161294701
>lemme repeat the years until everyone somehow has memories of the previous worlds which isn't realistic
So timetravel is okay but people remembering a previous loop isn't?

>oh and let me just pluck that bullet from the air so that no one dies
Wasn't needed, they could have wrote Takano missing or just not having her shoot Hanyu / Hanyu not lookin after the bitch

>>161319653
Higurashi > Umineko

>>161319653
Slice of Life was great. It made the characters seem like High School kids and their friendship was great

Conclusion was great. Maybe should have ended in #7 though, but 8 was still great.
Higurashi was god tier.

>>161319897
Erika is so cute but needs to be a LITTLE less of a bitch.

>>161319267
>Removing best EP

>>161319715
>>161319857
Have you ever tried to eat a bowl of shit? I mean you would probably love it given your tastes.

>>161320148
Hey, don't take it out on us if you don't have the intellect to handle Higurashi.

>>161319172
Kyrie and Rudolf killing everyone is the truth of Prime, m8.

Why else would Ange kill herself right after reading Eva's diary? Had it been any other person it wouldn't have affected her as much as it did. It also fit with a bunch of other things from her world.

>>161320284
>higurashi
>intellect

Try reading umineko sometime if you want to actually test your intellect..

>>161319209
>>161319369
Looking at it now there were MANY clues pointing at Rosa though. She's the closest to Maria, she fucking sees Beatrice at EP2 and is in the chapel before the murders and the episode tells us many things about her and Maria's life, in EP3 we learn about her past conections with Kuwadorian Beatrice, she's in the room of the gold with Eva while Eva-Beatrice meets Beatrice, Beatrice stops being Beatrice when Rosa dies, and EP4 has again a lot of attention put in Rosa and Maria's life, we even see that Maria thinks a witch lives in Rosa. Hell, Maria even has that fantasy where Beatrice kills her mother while no other person could have been there at the moment.
Of course she's no longer important at all since EP5 and thematically only Shkannon can be the culprit, but I can't believe Ryukishi didn't intend his fans created a Rosatrice theory.

>>161320425
I have. It ended up horrible. Great premise, horrid twists, and complete clusterfuck.

Even Japan gave up on it and Japan loves bad crap.

Don't forget that Umineko had 100 times more ANIME BATTLES when it was 100% unnecessary.

>>161320425
>Umineko
>smart
Enjoy your LOVE buzzwords. Higurashi doesn't try to sound smart while pulling out shit like Umineko and just goes with a normal story structure which works better.
Both are good though.

>>161320590
Please stop, you are just embarassing yourself at this point.

>>161320588
It probably really should have been Rosa.

>>161320658
So you are just confirming that you like Higurashi more because it's simpler to understand, great.

>>161320671
You couldn't debate any of my points.

>>161320588
those are all babby mode clues dude

if you think about it more carefuly or better yet reread whole 1-4 with Rosetrice in mind, you will see that even now you could easily stand by this theory

well, if only shkannontrice wasnt shoved down our throat by R07

>>161320724
Complexity =/= quality
Let's not even mention how dragged out it was. You could cut entire chapters out and you'd lose nothing.

>>161320724
No anon. Convoluted doesn't mean better. Sometimes simpler can be more efficient, sometimes it's the opposite. MGS2 is complex, MGS4 is convoluted.

>>161320680
then people would cry how the ending was literally R07 picking up most popular fanfic on the internet and making it canon

no, if you think about it this way it's still for the better that he made it into the MUH HEART skullduggery it was

>>161320792
>all the romance subplots
A little is okay to characterize but holy shit...
And once you find it the twist, it's even more painful.

Sure wish we could have an Umineko thread without you retards arguing about the same thing that never has a resolution and only makes you angrier every thread. Get the fuck over it.

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Am I the only one who thinks Onikakushi-hen and Legend of the Golden Witch are way better than their sequels?

>>161320930
I honestly don't know what to say. Best case would be:
>we have a plan from the very beginning
and I'm unsure if they did.


Still, a fan theory that works might be better than the canon theory that doesn't fit as well. One of the biggest memes related to Umineko relates to the big twist after all. And not in a positive light.
It didn't bother me but I can see why it does bother others.

>[Spoiler?]
>[Spoiler?]
>>161319043
>He already did that in EP5 by making Battler fall in love with Beatrice again despite EP3 being all about mocking the idea of it.
My man, Battler had a raging boner for Beatrice since episode 3 and it never stopped. Ange coming into the picture distracted him for a while, but he never stopped wanting to tap that. Even Ange realized he was enjoying playing with Beatrice.

>>161321011
Which was the sequel for Onikakushi? I don't recall it having one. Didn't he just remember pieces of it in ep 7?

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> It's an Anon Thinks He's Smart and Clever episode

I liked umineko until meta-meta-meta was introduced and I stopped thinking

>>161321118
I was refering to the other 7 higurashi novels and the other 7 umineko novels

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>magic is real
>beatrice has a cock
>muh dick
>dies anyway

>>161320737
*sighs*

>I have. It ended up horrible.
That's an opinion, not a point.

>Great premise, horrid twists, and complete clusterfuck.
That's an opinion, not a point.

>Even Japan gave up on it and Japan loves bad crap.
That's a meme, not a point. Having the usual rating drop a couple points for Ep.8 doesn't mean "Japan gave up on it". This argument is just a hyperbole parroted ad nauseum by butthurt mysteryfags who expected to have the solution writen in red.

>Don't forget that Umineko had 100 times more ANIME BATTLES when it was 100% unnecessary.
That's an opinion, not a point. I for one enjoyed every single over the top battle, they were fun. And I won't allow this kind of statements from someone who said earlier that they enjoyed slice of life shit in higurashi.

>>161320792
>You could cut entire chapters out and you'd lose nothing.
Well in that case you can remove the entirety of Higurashi except second half of 4 and 7, as the story is about Rika in the end and the rest is secondary.

>>161320894
>No anon. Convoluted doesn't mean better
For you.

>>161320792
>Complexity =/= quality
For you.

>>161321159
Oh!
Nah, I think certain later episodes of Higurashi are better. The Rena episode was quite fun and episode 3 was one I liked too.

I think episode 7 is my favorite.

For Umineko, maybe episode 5? Episode 2 has a weird beginning but otherwise its fine.

>>161321209
Killing Beatrice AND destroying Battler was overboard. I understand "No happy ending" but it didn't give a good ending for ANYONE and I did NOT feel satisfied.

>>161320792
>You could cut entire chapters out and you'd lose nothing.
Funny that you complain about this when Chiru is basically R07 vomiting hints all over the place and people STILL couldn't figure it out, not until he basically made a neon sign saying "LION IS A GUY AND KYRIE/RUDOLF IS THE REAL CULPRIT YOU RETARDS".

>>161321122
Shut up you monster, it was all your fucking fault.

>>161321246
>*sighs*
Lurk for 2 years before posting.

>>161321130
Dun dun dun, another one bites the dust.

Seriously, it's always the same with umineko haters.

>baaaww this story got too complex for my IQ80 burger brain, when are they gonna spout red and point their fingers to each other while making funny faces?

>>161294527
She's still moe as fuck and I want to protect and heal her.

>>161321246
You listed actual facts as opinions. To prove it, I'll pick the most obvious one that you called an opinion.


>Umineko had 100 times more anime battles
This is fact. It had many more

>100% unnecessary
They were. Seeing the objects fight and cast magic were unnecessary. Could have left it as simple murders with the related tools.
Or what about episode 8 where the arguments became Goatmen and they had to fight them off. That was cringy.

And so on and so forth. You even make arguments that YOU yourself probably don't actually agree with it. You don't honestly think that if you make a story more and more convulated and complex it becomes better right?
If we add another 100 characters and subplots, you agree it won't be better.

>>161321369
I have been here since 2007 champ, I'll do what I want.

>>161311831
How do you know thinking love isn't real isn't just another chemical reaction in and of itself? How do you know your reactions aren't faulty?

>>161321289
If there are hints, it's not what I'm talking about. Still, you don't need Lion at all.

>>161321297
Nah, it was Kinzo

> Hey Natsuhi I know you're very down and distressed about your infertility problems
> But hey take this kid and raise it as your own, basically slapping on your face that you're biologically useless

It was probably Krauss the one who was infertile, anyways. He never got checked.

>>161321011
LOTGW is until this day still my favorite game
it's quite ironic it's the one game witches in their meta form don't appear yet

you can easily deduce that witches literally ruined the series

>>161321246
>Convoluted/Complex doesn't mean better is an opinion
I can find a Super Smash Bros Melee fanfiction more complex than your favorite work of fiction. Doesn't mean it's better.

>battler is crying and whining for the first few episodes
>then beatrice cries and whines
>they keep saying "I don't accept you as an opponent" and then switch positions

VS
Higurashi were the characters were not whiny and were tough and fun. All of them can stand up for themselves in most situations.

>>161321473
You have to be completely deranged to throw a baby and an innocent servant off a cliff due to "stress" without saying "wow this is kind of a bad idea" as you're fucking walking through the forest following them..

>>161321497
In the first place, I never said Convoluted is better, I said you like Higurashi because it's simpler.

One thing does not imply the other.

>>161321458
You do if you want the whole ambiguous gender thing settled out. And to understand Yasu's issues with sex and gender. Which is basically the thing that made them go bonkers.

>>161321391
But that has nothing to do with what he said.
Fourth wall breaks can ruin a story and has nothing to do with complexity.

>>161321543
Wow it's almost like they were two different stories who'd have fucking thought

>>161321595
I'm arguing that Higurashi had better characters. Both stories were character driven and if one has weak unlikable characters, it feels weaker.

ahhhh an active umineko bread on /a/
this is my favorite time of the year

>>161321572
I like Higurashi more because Umineko tries to be complex near the end and in my opinion doesn't quite succeed at that, hindering the story structure and emotional involvement of the reader (when everything is under 3 layers of meta, you don't feel so much for these fictional characters within a fiction).

That's just my opinion though, you don't need to reaffirm your own like that. Lots of people like Umineko more and while I think they're wrong it's just an opinion.

>>161321663
Unlikeable character =/= bad character

Go reread all the adult scenes and come back and say they were shallow characters.

>>161321582
No, I still think you don't need Lion but I wasn't suggesting we cut him. I actually do like him. We had Yasu's memories/backstory dump that says similar stuff.
Lion does have the use you mention though.

>>161321413
Of course it's an opinion to qualify something as unnecessary, and that's obvious given that there are people that liked those battles.

Your definition of unnecessary is "I don't like it".

>>161321726
They had bad characters too. Unlikeable CAN be a bad character. Story CAN suffer from following an unlikable MC, which it did.

Steins Gate is great but the MC's chunnibayo moments occasionally hurt the game.

Higurashi and Umineko were both good.

>>161321547
I'm not saying it wasn't horrible, neither that it isn't her fault, but it's not as if she didn't had a reason to be badly hurt. In fact, so hurt that from a billion of fragments, only one is where she swallows her pride and raises Lion. She was pretty unstable and imagining the things she could do in that broken state of mind isn't hard.

Is kind of like Genji allowing Yasu to get their hands in a bunch of explosives and rifles, knowing fully that Yasu is an unstable individual with issues, and not thinking they could do something crazy with it.

>>161321749
Were the battles necessary, anon?
Yes or no.

NO: Means they were unnecessary.
YES: They are necessary.

>>161321726
Not him but the adults were the best. It's a shame they got cut in favor of the magic characters in Chiru. And that Rudolf/Kyrie reveal feels super OOC, especially for Rudolf who fucking dogeza'd in front of his son so he'd forgive him for something he wasn't even responsible of, but suddenly he's okay with killing everyone which will likely involve his son too. What the fuck?

>>161321843
Define necessary.

>>161321572
You made an argument you yourself didn't believe in. That's not a good idea if you want to convince people.

>>161321836
Natsuhi is trash. Do we learn about the baby before her trial in episode 5? Because I wouldn't give a shit about what becomes of her if that was the case.

>Natsuhi dindu nuffin

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>>161314994
But that's not what happened
At least, you can't really pin it all on Yasu, when the whole murderplot and shitstorm was caused by Kiriye and Rudolph being sociopathic narcisists
Yasu was a facilitator at best, even without the treasure and the shotguns their plan was still to blackmail money out of the family

>>161321891
Crucial to the plot's progression?

>>161321796
>Story CAN suffer from following an unlikable MC, which it did.

if MC being unlikable ruins the story for you it means you're bothered by him

being bothered by a fictional character means you either self insert, and you can't stand seeing yourself the way you are OR you simply are shallow enough to needing MCs to be glorified, wish fullfilments for your unreasonable fantasies

get it around your head anon, reasonable people dont fucking care about characters behaviors enough to ruin the story for them... only the YAAAASqueers cannot stand fictional characters

>>161321938
>>161320724
>So you are just confirming that you like Higurashi more because it's simpler to understand, great.

?

>>161321982
Remove pretty much everything then.

>>161321543
>Higurashi were the characters were not whiny and were tough and fun. All of them can stand up for themselves in most situations.
Nigga what? Higurashi's whole message was to NOT shoulder your problems on yourself and talk to your friends, and let people help you in times of need. Hell, all of the problems happen PRECISELY because characters try to act tough or do things by themselves. Trusting people and learning to rely on others were majors themes in the story.

I know you hate Umineko but you're making yourself look like an idiot who doesn't even understand what he's trying to criticize.

>>161321983
None of that is true. If a character is too weak to overcome strengths, it's simply annoying. This applies to MC, villain, side characters, etc. Nothign related to self insert.

Where do you get these bullshit ideas? I can probably guess which poster you are and every post you made.

>>161321995
>misrepresenting an argument to make it easier to combat
Classy. So our point ended up correct and you can't argue against it.

Basically what I expected.

Why would the killings happen in 1986 in the world where Beatrice was never born because Lion exists? The whole thing supposedly gets stirred in motion by Beatrice giving the guns and an opportunity and revealing that the gold exists to the adults if we go with the Kyrie/Rudolf theory.

The dialogue in battles (inside the game) is important because muh foreshadowing
Them being flashy is important at first so we can see Battler getting overwhelmed but after a few they get tiring

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>>161322125
I honestly don't know what you are blabbering about.

I never said more complex is better, I said you don't have the brains for umineko and that's why you prefer higurashi.

>>161321969
Blackmail is something. Turning on a bomb that'd kill everyone and loading a shitload of rifles + preparing the plot to use them on everyone isn't being a facilitator, it's premeditated attempt of murder. Just because his mental illness (MUH EPITAPH) and Kyrie/Rudolf cucked him out of it doesn't change that fact.

"Muh necessary" You sound like a retard. If you know so much about storytelling then please, write your own VN with only the "necessary" things and see how people like it.

Or easier, do us all a favor and kill yourself.

>>161322068
No, you're right but you're twisting what *I* mean. Though maybe I wrote it wrong.

Yes, it's about working together as a village, but they were strong on their own. The fact that being strong on their own caused problems, yes.
They did not break down and whine, or at least, not often.

Am I being clear?
They were tough, which caused problems like you said, and the message was friendship and reliance.

>>161322077
>it's simply annoying

no it's not
as i said reasonable people don't actually give a flying fuck about fictional character's behavior enough to be bothered

i for one enjoyed every single moment seeing Shinji squirm around like a thirteen year old fuckboy he was, trying to find his inner strenght but failing miserably - it was a great testament to children weaknesses and as a long time adult i couldn't very well relate to him, therefore i wasn't a single time bothered by his weak actions

>>161322068
Not him but I assume he meant Higurashi characters would stand out for themselves and SEEK solutions with their friends rather than engaging on a self-destruction path like the Ushiromiya.

I can't say characters meeting their ends because of fatal flaws/hubris is bad though. But I guess I liked it more in Higurashi since Ange's conflict was solved weirdly.

>learn truth
>unlearn truth
>shonen battles
>got over everything

>>161322164
Because Beatrice aside, the Ushiromiyas have been cooking a stew of turmoil for decades. Tensions born out of a thousand half spoken truths and misunderstandings, combined with common greed and heartache.

ITT: Muh opinion >>>>>> shit >>>>> your opinion

>>161322274
>They did not break down and whine, or at least, not often.
But that's what Satoko and Shion did, like, 70% of time.

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Every time these threads come up I don't understand how people could be pissed at the love resolution, at the Truth, and how things got resolved.
I don't know, maybe I'm too easily pleased?
But how could I not love the meta world of Chiru, knowing what it represented?
Lambda's fight, the Tribunal, Will giving Claire her last rites, Battler's return...and in the end the payoff, the crushing realization that Beatrice couldn't handle her own sin.

Every single chapter, every single scene.
It could've been drawn out at times, but I was always so eager to go forward, I wanted more, every interaction and every climax were just so good, they hit me straight in the heart so deeply every single time.

How could you just ignore everything and shout for a perfectly 100% mystery story? Was it all nothing for you? Did you not care about the logic battles, or finding the truth on your own, or trying to understand what a meta scene meant in the real world?

How could you not be touched? How could you even care about the logistics of anything by the end?
Is this it?
The meaning of "Without love, it cannot be seen"?
Are the people just clamoring for a 100% logical resolution and for the head of Yasu on a stake just goats without love?

>>161322217
Nigger, are you mentally retarded?
1. Another anon explained it already perfectly
2. Your exact words:
">>161320894
>No anon. Convoluted doesn't mean better
For you.

>>161320792 (You)
>Complexity =/= quality
For you."

Why make this argument if you do not disagree with us?

It has NOTHING to do with us being stupid and you the genius of the world. It has everything to do with it being too complex to really enjoy. We understood just fine. It just stopped being fun to read. It went overboard. It has nothing to do with ignorance. It might be our opinions, but it's a fairly common one. Good for you that you enjoyed it anyway.

>>161321846
They had plenty of focus, they just weren't the main idea. This was a story about Beatrice, and the tragedy of the Ushiromiya family. Constantly the adults are at odds with each other, they are shown to have bullied each other as kids and harbored immense resentment for each other over the years. EP7's tea party was the ultimate culmination of all that, showing that they will never put it aside enough to survive and solve their problems. That's when the story truly came full circle, when you realized that the family is hopeless, not because of Beatrice, but because of everyone else. Kyrie is the only one who could have taken advantage of it, and she did, in every single fragment. Rudolf still showed his regrets, but sucked it up in front of Kyrie, who basically dragged him into it. There's no way he would have killed Battler. He was talking to himself in front of the chapel convincing himself that he could play the villain, and that worked for George, the servants, and his hated siblings, but there's no way he would have offed Battler considering his meltdown in EP6. Kyrie's coldness had been hinted at throughout. I only think her words about Ange were exaggerated for the sake of fucking with Eva. Remember too that Bern's view is loveless, so though it happened, there were thoughts that were not shown to us.

>>161322373
How can I be touched when Yasu existing is retarded?

>>161322373
>Every time these threads come up I don't understand how people could be pissed at the love resolution, at the Truth, and how things got resolved.

My girlfriend absolutely LOATHES the ending just because they all are actually dead in the end. She wanted a magical resolution where they didn't die.
Dunno, I also think that's pretty sad, but it's all about believing that they DID magic themselves into a better place. It's admitting that we all need some denial to go on with our lives.

>>161322242
So angry. Anon, the witch battles were hit and miss overall.

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>>161322373
I understand, anon

>>161322164
No one accepted Lion as Kinzo's heir. Therefore, the same inheritance conflict that happens in the other worlds, happens again but this time, Kinzo is the one that proposes the epitaph to choose a heir once for all. The siblings agree to solve it.

The siblings solve the epitaph, yadda yadda, Kyrie and Rudolf kill everyone, including Lion.

>>161322372
Satoko only broke down with her abusive uncle and even then she put on a brave (albiet STUPID) face usually. She breaks down like twice, both times at school when being pressured by others. But yea, she broke down as well as being strong for her brother.

>>161322373
1-5 was great, that's why we (or at least, I) are disappointed with 6 and 8. 7 was cool.

>>161322445
>This was a story about Beatrice
Fuck Beatrice though. Should've digged deeper with the adults and made them more relevant with Chiru. More background, more intricate stuff between them. Even Krauss had subtle and very satisfying development but didn't get any screentime in Chiru because LOL MOON ROCKS NATSUHI IS THE MAN IN THE COUPLE

Kyrie/Rudolf has great shock value and this Tea Party is pretty awesome, but it doesn't make much sense if it's the real truth (and it is, according to episode 8, so fuck episode 8)

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>>161322428
Since when saying "for you" in response to "complex != better" means "complex = better"?

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>>161292142
>>161302187
>>161304117
Technology's impersonal encroachment into the rotting collective psyche across time itself rooting it's ultimately malefic addictive dream world into the territory once reserved for a wild biosphere, or natural spirit world, is only a benefit in forcing understanding of omega level consequences of willfully living apathy, but otherwise is a mad wasteland where you don't have time for silly riddles or to play what were once light, silly games. Kyogre and Maguile waits above the palace of Zeal.
>>161322077
>All that pain
>Yes, you're seeing this "again"

>>161322618
"Complex != Better" actually implies :
>Complex =/=> Better
Or : "Complex doesn't induce better"

Disagreeing with that means
>Complex ==> Better
Or "Complexe induces better"

But we're just nitpicking at this point.

>>161322373
You are not alone anon, let the goats rage eternally.

>>161322618
Guy 1: I sure love cake
Guy 2: That's just your opinion, man.
Guy 1: Huh, you don't like cake?
Guy 2: No, I do.
Guy 1: Then why bring it up?

If you agree that "Complexity isn't quality" then do not bring it up. Agree with it or don't say anything.

>>161322739
Actually,

P -> Q
Q /-> P

Or, translated to pleb:

Better implies Complex.
Complex does not imply Better.

>>161322373
I disliked many things but several things were great
Battler's return, ALL of Lambda.

Still, it's a little bullshit that witch can simply kill Lambda, change her mind, and bring her back.

>>161322336
Ange wanted to learn the truth to justify her hatred towards Eva, and have a reason to kill herself.

Battler wanted to hide the truth from Ange so she could still remember her family in happier times, and not taint the image of her parents in her mind. Also, to stop her from killing herself (which was something she was planning to do).

Ange learns the truth anyways, has a breakdown, and Battler tries to convince her that despite her family being a bunch of monsters, they still were kind people to her and that she shouldn't let a single tragedy ruin her life.

Depending on the ending, Ange accepts the truth, doesn't let the tragedy to taint the good memories she had from her faimly, and moves on. Or, in the trick ending, never moves on and uses her pain to spite on others.

>>161322373
The point of the ending, and of the whole thing ultimately, was that with love you can create any reality, even if it's false.
Even though in the end Beatrice's lack of love for herself spelled her death, you can still apply it to the whole story.
By the end, your attitude towards the meta elements is telling of how you interfaced yourself with the story.
Truly, without love it cannot be seen.

>>161322848
Poor Ange. Didn't even get her bro back. Wouldn't it be better if he just died?

>>161322840
>Better implies Complex.
That's wrong though.

>>161322840
And let me add

~Q /-> P

it's 2017 and people are still rabidly discussing 10 year old series that ended 7 years ago

that alone means ryukishi had created a masterpiece whether you want to call it that or not

umineko will be on people's tongues 20 years from now <- screencap this

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>>161322618
>You don't get to tell me that anymore
>Attention K-mart Shoppers
>Take the medicine recommendation already Keaton, and don't be stingy sharing it.

>>161323040
>that alone means ryukishi had created a masterpiece
But that doesn't follow logically. You can talk about bad movies and games forever too. Especially disappointments.

>>161323101
Bad movies, true bad movies are also masterpieces. Accidental mastery.

>>161323172
Maybe. The Room is a masterpiece. But there exist movies so bad that they are nigh unwatchable. But then you wouldn't discuss it.

>>161322848
>Ange wanted to learn the truth to justify her hatred towards Eva
Didn't really need to. Eva was awful enough in the later years of her life without Rokkenjima incident to help.

>and have a reason to kill herself.
Sure.

>Ange accepts the truth, doesn't let the tragedy to taint the good memories she had from her faimly, and moves on
More like unlearns it, which bugs me. She could have accepted they were a bunch of assholes which doesn't invalidate the good times she had instead of making up an alternate reality where they're good guys.

>Or, in the trick ending, never moves on and uses her pain to spite on others.
Only because the stupid Erika boogeyman appears. Take out the intellectual rapist persona and this is the trick ending
>Ange stops giving a shit about Rokkenjima
>using her wits, Ange finds out about the conspiracy that involved people relatively close to her murdering her for money with a fucking sniper rifle
>she saves her life and defeats her enemies, living to fight another day

Now here's the magic ending
>Ange goes back in past??
>instead of not giving a shit about Rokkenjima she lives under the illusion that everyone was good, supported by the current lack of evidences of the contrary, but if anyone comes up to her and tell her otherwise she'll probably be triggered
>writes Sakutaro fanfictions
>Battler comes back???????

Now, which one sounds like the better character arc?

>>161322612
I agree that Kyrie/Rudolf didn't had much buildup, almost none, but I don't think we fell short of material exploring the other siblings. Rosa, Eva, and Natsuhi all the entire episodes dedicated to themselves. Krauss had a good chunk dedicated to him, as well. There's not much to say about Hideyoshi because he's just an average, normal guy. And most of Rudolf's character is tied to Battler and Asumu, as well as Kyrie.

I wouldn't say Natsuhi is the man in the relationship, but she's definitely the brains. Krauss just wants to be a normal dad, and he definitely isn't clever or smart enough for the world of business.

>>161323270
Also, in the magic ending
>Ange never finds out that Okonogi and that other guy would put a bullet in her head anyday if they had to because of a happy coincidence (she gives the company - HER company - before they can do that)

That's fucked up.

>>161323270
Honestly... in hindsight, the story makes sense and is interesting, but man... the way it happens just failed.

>>161323245
The worst movies are the mediocre ones. Those are the ones that fail to produce any sort of emotion in the viewer.
Umineko, most likely, produces SOME sort of emotion in whoever reads it.

>>161323432
As someone who dislikes Umineko, yes, it had plenty of badass moments. It has plenty of great scenes. It inspires emotions. But I'll never forgive it for doing the story so poorly. I probably don't regret reading/playing it. Just disappointed.

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>>161323172
>accidental in this case is being used in place of sabotage
>all that personal island best end adventure sex you're not having
>>161323432
>not simply seeing it whenever you close your eyes on all mental wavelengths
>nay, this is sanity's current form

>>161323270
>Didn't really need to. Eva was awful enough in the later years of her life without Rokkenjima incident to help.
Correction, she wanted proof that Eva killed everyone. That, and justify how much she hates her, and how she rejected her when she offered to be her family.

>More like unlearns it, which bugs me.
Nah, she never acts like Prime never happened. She just chooses to not let it taint her good memories.

>She could have accepted they were a bunch of assholes which doesn't invalidate the good times she had
This is exactly what happens, though. Don't know where you get the whole "alternate reality/Sakutaro fanfics" thing.

>Battler comes back???????
Battler never came back. Only Tohya. The final scene with the orphanage was about both of them getting a resolution and finally letting go.

The whole thing with Erika could be an action movie, yes, but that's not the point R07 wanted to make. It's about Ange's way to deal with her pain. And in this case, it meant she never truly healed and turned it into a weapon to hurt others, like Erika did.

>>161323400
I agree about the whole Okonogi thing, but honestly it didn't bother me enough because it was just a side commentary of Ange's world, not very relevant to her inner struggle. It's like complaining about whatever happened to Kyrie's sister that was hunting down Ange to torture her in revenge. Neither of those things get enough screentime to be considered of importance.

Am I pleb for wanting Beatrice and Battler to be happy together?

>>161323270
>Eva was awful enough in the later years of her life without Rokkenjima incident to help.
That was Ange's perception out of her own immaturity. Eva was broken up about whatever happened there. Being demonized by the public eye didn't help.

>More like unlearns it, which bugs me. She could have accepted they were a bunch of assholes which doesn't invalidate the good times she had instead of making up an alternate reality where they're good guys.
The whole point is about what "truth" is. What she pursued as truth was insufficient, inhuman. She doesn't ignore the truth, she just stops trying to see her family as if she was reading a police procedural.
Them being good isn't an alternate reality. It's her actual memories as a child.

>Only because the stupid Erika boogeyman appears. Take out the intellectual rapist persona and this is the trick ending
Erika, like everything else supernatural, is just a symbol of a narrative element. Erika showing up is just to represent that she chooses the Absolute Truth. It's a grim ending, but that's what you pursue if you want that.

>Magic Ending
It's about Ange being able to overcome her survivor trauma in a more positive way. To focus not on the gruesome details of her family's demise but rather to remember the love that they tried to show her despite their inner turmoil and double faces.

>>161323763
I don't see it that way but fair enough. I still think that EP1-5 are varying levels of GOAT (setting, character, ost, it's fucking awesome) and 6-8 fucks that by taking the story to weird places.

>>161322501
>My girlfriend absolutely LOATHES the ending just because they all are actually dead in the end
It should have been obvious since episode 3 that no one (besides eva) would come back alive.

>>161324011
I feel about the same as you.

One of my bigger grievances is that it isn't Battler who solves the mysteries (or rather, he solves it off screen) but Will and it's not even against Beatrice.

I haven't read the manga, what are people using as basis to say that the Rudolf/Kyrie culprit theory is the truth?

In the VN it's just one Fragment out of a gazillion. Bern even trolls Ange with it.

>>161324066
Look. If you believe there's MAGIC involved and the Witch of Miracles who managed to loop her way out of an inescapable trap... You CAN believe there's a way to fix everything.

>>161324066
Why? Every episode had different murderers etc. It's not until later you realize that the murdered people are those who died in the real world as well.
Or so I remember. Ange appears in episode 4 right? Then it's episode 4 that confirms that episode 3 is a possible solution.

>>161324122
When Ange opens Eva's diary, what's shown inside are the events of the Tea Party of EP7

>>161324175
>opens the diary

The fuck

>>161324175
I'm going to choose to ignore that and stick to the vagueness of the VN. It's better that way.

>>161323970
>That was Ange's perception out of her own immaturity
Because Eva didn't make Ange bait so someone would murder her. Wait, that's exactly what happened and someone DID murder her.
Let's not even get into the "you wont have a single friend and will remain autistic your whole life because my men will make sure you can't talk to anybody".
Eva is awful, no matter how much you try to whitewash her and put the blame on Bern/doubt/public eye/whatever the fuck you want.

>She doesn't ignore the truth, she just stops trying to see her family as if she was reading a police procedural.
>Them being good isn't an alternate reality. It's her actual memories as a child.
And that's why episode 8 starts with Kinzo yelling HAPPY HALLOWEEN, right?
Ange didn't succeed by accepting that while her family was horribly flawed (some people being murderers), the good moments she had still meant something. Ange used magic. Delusions. Just like how Natsuhi convinced herself Kinzo trusted her and told everyone about it and yet Bern was the evil one for exposing her lies. Ange convinced herself everyone was good.

I don't think that's a positive way to cope. That's fucked up. A positive way would have been to get over it. Accept or forget about it. Not build a sandcastle hoping no one will destroy it, which is exactly what Umineko episode 8 was : STOP THE JOURNALISTS FROM LEARNING THE TRUTH. Destroy the book of truth. Close the catbox, or it'll destroy your heart.

It's far, far from a happy ending in my opinion. The trick ending is much closer to it.

>>161324256
not him but that's exactly what i've been saying last night

the EP8 manga was last act of defilement that R07 could've done, because even though VN does present you with the prime theory on a silver platter, it's still done vaguely enough for you to ignore and still indulge yourself with the catbox which was left unopened in the end

but then the manga happens and the catbox is completely open and once you read it - you have no choice but to accept yasutrice as THE TRUTH (unless youre good at being delusional or just screaming "lalalala" while sticking fingers in your ears and closing your eyes)

>>161324285
>Eva
All we know about her is out of Ange's perception and thus tainted. The whole point of "trick/magic" is about perception and how there is no absolute representation.

>And that's why episode 8 starts with Kinzo yelling HAPPY HALLOWEEN, right?
The entire party is framed as "Battler" helping Ange come to terms with what happened. It's her idealized big brother that she loves representing all that's good in the family, forcing her to see a good side to the family.
Again, it's about perception. It's not ignoring, it's just shifting focus.

>>161324157
Episode 3 introduced Ange and her world, which is the future past Rokkenjima's murders. It was clearly stated that, in that world, no one besides Eva came back alive. Even if Ange time-traveled to change something, it'd still change just another fragment, not hers. "Her" family would still be dead.

>>161324159
Ange appears at the end of episode 3. In that very scene they talk about the Rokkenjima Murders and how it affected Eva, the only survivor.

>>161324560
Well, you just can't quite pull the same trick in a manga form. Some things need to be different.
But yeah, if Ryukishi had the liberty to veto something, he fucked that one up royally.

>>161324677
>Episode 3 introduced Ange and her world, which is the future past Rokkenjima's murders. It was clearly stated that, in that world, no one besides Eva came back alive. Even if Ange time-traveled to change something, it'd still change just another fragment, not hers. "Her" family would still be dead.
You're completely correct. It doesn't bother me. It's just that some people can't handle bittersweet.

>>161324694
>if Ryukishi had the liberty to veto something

i think you're missing something here. he had all the liberty considering he wrote it, the artist only drew it

>>161324777
I thought a different team did the manga. That's often the case.
Oh boy.

>>161324609
>All we know about her is out of Ange's perception and thus tainted
So Ange imagined every interaction and dialogue she has with Eva? That's retarded. We have Eva literally telling Ange she's going to break her post-mortem using her money. This is exactly what happens in episode 4. But it doesn't count because Ange (rightfully and pragmatically) dislikes Eva.

> It's her idealized big brother that she loves representing all that's good in the family, forcing her to see a good side to the family.
A good side that doesn't exist.

>Okay Ange, to get over your hate of me, you have to see the good in me. For example, did I ever tell you that I gave millions to starving kids in Africa?
>Wait, that never happened, you're poor
>Just accept it so you'll see the good in me. It's not ignoring but shifting focus.

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>>161323946
Yes. True Umineko patricians see beyond Beato and wish for Sayo's happiness.

>>161324560
And as I said last night, when it came out everyone was pissed because he DID make it ambiguous. He cannot win with any of you, you will always be pissed at him no matter what.

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Reminder that even though she was an awful stepmother, Eva never gave in an told everyone about Rudolf or Kyrie because she knew it'd break Ange.

And reminder that Ange rejected Eva's one honest attempt at helping her, even though she had no real understanding of what was going on.

And last reminder that Eva tormented and emotionally abused a helpless, orphaned child, even though said child couldn't help her own limited understanding of a tragedy.

>>161325006
Glad to hear. I would have liked Ange to get a happy ending too.

It's not a BAD ending what we got but I still think it was a bit over the top.

>>161325077
All the adults are horrible people really

>>161325077
Why is the Ushiromiya family full of assholes? Kinzo didn't seem like a bad guy as a young person but acted like a piece of shit to his children that resulted in them also being dirtbags.

>>161325172
Hideyoshi and Krauss were the least worse, I think. Krauss was stupid and insecure, but not a bad person. Hideyoshi was a supportive husband and a good father.

All the aunts are terrible people.

>>161325077
>And last reminder that Eva tormented and emotionally abused a helpless, orphaned child, even though said child couldn't help her own limited understanding of a tragedy.
I thought you were a retard until that line. Eva just broke Ange with her own hands instead of letting the truth do it. Or more accurately, Eva let the truth break Ange over the years and also took it upon herself to break her with her own means.

>learning about your parents being murderers? That's bad
>instead you'll learn your parents were murderers but after 15 years of doubt, torment, questionning, with people around you harassing you with that shit, believing the real murderer is in front of you and got away with everything AND is actively ruining your life through fucking manpower and money

much better

>>161325072
>He cannot win with any of you

yes he can
he already won by making EP8 game, which made me content as fuck. it gave me a story ending that goes beyond mystery and lets me emerge myself in the full fantasy romance without care and it kept catbox relatively closed so i could still discuss theories on multiple platforms, as long as you regarded yasu's narrative from episode 7 as yet another biased, subjective story that you can simply ignore due to it being "gremlins in the tv tube" (this is what 1-4 teaches us for fuck sake, dont take everything narrated in 1st person as granted)

and then he forfeited his victory by explicitly stating "yeah this IS the truth, fuck you" in the manga version of ep8

>>161325231
Hideyoshi is a pure angel.

Krauss is fine.

Even Rosa if she could close her damn legs and think about her daughter would be good.


I thought I was supposed to dislike Maria but she turned out to be totally fine.

>>161325231
Krauss was great if we can trust Kanon's flashback to him in Episode 6 ????.

>>161325356
Or was it the normal Tea Party?

I keep forgetting.

>>161325268
Nah, Eva explicitly said she wanted to torture Ange by never letting her know the truth. The diary was a fortunate find, but Eva's plans was to take what Ange desired the most, the truth, to her grave, so that Ange would always be tormented by doubts and rumors she would never be able to confirm.

In short, Eva's "revenge" was to take away any possibility of Ange having resolution. Something she knew would torment her for the rest of her life.

>>161325387
It's the main episode, isn't it? When he's reminiscing about the people in his life while running to rescue Battler.

>>161325352
>I thought I was supposed to dislike Maria but she turned out to be totally fine.
She's an emotionally and intellectually stunted child. You can find her annoying, but other than that you can only pity her.

>>161325439
That scene, yes.

It's been ages so I don't really remember when what happened.

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>>161325231
>All the aunts are terrible people.

Excuse me sir, but Natsuhi is pure and I will have you retract your words immidiately.

>>161325471
SHE MURDERED A MAID AND ATTEMPTED TO KILL A BABY

>>161325489
Yea but they were property.

is umineko real

>>161325352
Rosa was a terrible parent, and commits a very common mistake of over-indulging your child and then expect them to listen to you later.

>>161325356
Krauss was good, but he couldn't fit into Kinzo's shoes and that made him act like a retard at times. The rest of the time he's a normal, cool dad. I can imagine him doting on Jessica every time he can.

>>161325561
is umineko fanta sea?

>>161325489
>get subjugated into political business marriage
>get your father-by-law's bastard thrown at you simply because you can't get preggo asap (which probably was more of Krausses fault rather than hers anyway)
>be forced to live in this shamefuru dispray every day

fuck me, at this point i wonder how did R07 not end up making Natsuhi the ultimate culprit

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>>161325561

>>161325561
Sure. Ever been to a beach?

>>161325471
Natsuhi was a terrible mother. She largely ignores Jessica to the point she doesn't know much about her. Jessica has to turn to Eva to notice that she started to use things like makeup and doing her eyebrows, because Natsuhi would never notice changes like that. She's emotionally distant to both her daughter and husband because she's obsessed with gaining Kinzo's approval.

In fact, with so much fucked up shit happening around her, is a miracle Jessica turned out normal. Specially for someone who had to live with Kinzo.

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I thought the violence in the manga was really, really, really well done.

Though i still wonder why after all the intestines, exploded head and whatever they somehow refused to show Jessica's ruined face after Kyrie has her way with her.

>>161325880
>Jessica turned out normal
Ha, no.

>>161325925
Okay, a bit stupid, but normal.

>>161325925
Relatively.

Who /seacatsbgm/ here?

Please don't tell me I'm the only one left.

>>161325925
Fucking Moon-chan

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>>161325880
No no no NO! You take that back right now! It's NOT true!

>>161325616
>fuck me, at this point i wonder how did R07 not end up making Natsuhi the ultimate culprit
According to episode 5 it's because she genuinely cares about Krauss and Jessica and doesn't want to involve them into nasty shit. Also that she still thinks she can continue Kinzo's legacy. Destroying the island wouldn't do it.

Kyrie/Rudolf works because they only care about themselves, and little about that sort of collateral damage. It's ambiguous whether they gave a shit about Ange or Battler, though. I say they did, but in a very superficial way.

>>161326042
If I was on my other computer, I'd link music, but since I'm not and can't do Japanese characters, I will link some of the character songs I like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGOT_pusSE

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg9XPcPKYAQ

>>161326249
Ah, you actually don't know what I'm talking about.

Someone streamed the VN episodes from ep 6 onward when they were just an hour fresh from Comiket.

Shit was amazing.

>>161326197
>t's ambiguous whether they gave a shit about [...] Battler

Kyrie didn't. Rudolf did, but ultimately he cared about himself more.

>>161326307
I guess not. BGM means background music to me. Sorry anon.

>>161326324
Kyrie would if she knew it's her child.
Actually, even without knowing it, she cared a BIT.

You know... it always felt like a dumb twist making them the bad guys. I truly wouldn't mind it but it felt forced. I don't even think the twist was necessary.

>>161326427
Not to worry, it initially started out to just listen to the (new) BGM like the name implies.

Then it evovled into something more.

>>161326476
I mean you see that Kyrie is a little out there in earlier episodes even when being a heroine, multiple times. Rudolf just goes along but eh.

Reminder that Kinzo:

> Tricked a couple of guys to kill each other over a bunch of gold to keep it to himself, then lie about it to everyone
> Had a mistress for who knows how long, right in the same island as his family
> Had a woman kidnapped to marry to his eldest son
> Kept his mistress' daughter in isolation, bullshit her into thinking magic is real, and stunted her growth by brainwashing her to think she's the reincarnation of her mother
> Implied MULTIPLE TIMES to his servants that he miiiiight think of raping his daughter (servants do nothing), and actually did it
> Died without taking responsibility of anything he did, dumped all his problems into his bastard kid

Reminder even Bern thinks Kinzo would be capable of raping Lion had the child been handed to him instead of being sent to an orphanage.

>>161326476
>Actually, even without knowing it, she cared a BIT.

no she fucking didn't. she specifically told rudolf that either he manages to get his bastard on the board or she trashes him along with everyone else