Fate

The Einzberns wanted big stats because big stats = easy win

Kerry and his free thinking bullshit fucked them over hard, so they want absolute loyalty this time around, and since they know even as a Berserker Herc could assrape most everyone no problem

>>160825772
Except when Berserker jobbed in all 3 routes

>>160825840
That's the point of the strongest enemies

>>160825840
Gil was bullshit for basically everyone, and the Shadow+Unlimited Mana Saber is downright disgusting, the only real bad showing he had was Fate

They Einzberns wanted someone loyal because they were betrayed in the previous war. There in nothing more to it.

>>160825929
Excpet a Japanese schoolboy.

>>160825840
So did just about everyone else.
It's only sheer luck that Shirou escapes Berserker alive in the beginning anyway, he causes several bad ends.

>>160825929
In Fate, he had his best showing though.

>>160826291
>sheer luck
Avalon isn't luck.

>>160825192
>best
'Best' is subjective here. Yeah, he'd be able to use his NP but all his stats would be 1-2 points lower.

The Einzberns did not, however, account for the fact that this is an anime. And that the only way to kill literally anybody is with retarded beam o' wars.

>>160826858
Avalon doesn't make him invincible, he can still die or get captured by Ilya, as seen in the aforementioned bad ends.

>>160826949
>'Best' is subjective here.
no it isn't, you're going against word of nasu on this

>>160826816
>>160825929

>UBW
Jobbed to Gil

>HF
Jobbed to Saber and Shirou

>Fate
Actual threat, took two servant/master teams to defeat him

>>160825192
Because the Einzberns are masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

>>160826980
There is only two kind of bad ends in day 3 and they happen when you run away

>>160827018
>Nasu
>not full of shit
New to the fandom?

when will Hitler and Satan come to FGO

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The various entries in the Fate series collectively have what's known as an Idiot Plot, in that any master who actually used their brain could curbstomp the competition - if not at the very least reach the finals, and come out alive.

The trick is to use yourself as a catalyst. If you and your servant have differing opinions on how to fight you're gonna have a bad time, particularly if you summon one of the dipshit heroes obsessed with chivalry. That aside, the really smart way to play is to summon Assassin (or Caster, but ideally Assassin), use social engineering to have people team up against any servant with the independent action skill, then focus down the masters.

So would Bezett have won the war if she had Cu instead of dying.
Though she probably still loses to berserker

>>160827042
Does everything have to be jobbing? Can't someone lose normally?

>>160827827
I think they could beat Berserker if Bazett had MC status, surely they could pull some rune bullshit between the two of them.
It definitely wouldn't be easy though.

>>160828902
>>160827827
She would order to gaybuldge Ilya and thats it.

>>160827827
Don't think they can really do anything to Assassin+Caster+Kuzuki
They'd probably win against Saber+Shirou, due to Shirou being weaker than Bazett most of the time.
Archer+Rin would give them a lot of trouble if Archer started sniping them, but otherwise not really.
Rider+Shinji is lol2weak, but Rider+Sakura is pretty fucking formidable, so who knows with this, though I think Lancer's monster slaying capabilities would come into play here
Zouken+True Assassin could just assassinate Bazett and be over with, but if it came to a showdown for some reason, Lancer'll win. Of course, Shadow nonsense is not taken into account.
Berserker+Illya is a wall they cannot overcome.
And Gil+Kotomine is lolGil, lolEnkidu, lolpsychologicalcurbstomp

Surprisingly okay balance, actually, though mostly because Lancer never got to really fight Servants that much in the VN anyway, so he ended up being pretty irrelevant.

>>160829399
Bezett manages to beat every servent except Berserker in HA and that is using Angra Mainyu

>>160829399

I wonder how fragarach would interact with GoB.

>>160829535

Not exactly a fair example, she had loads of practice deaths.

>>160829535
Angra Mainyu is actually a very good Servant for Bazett in terms of compatability,since he could force them to use their trump cards if his Noble Phantasm works, and they had the whole infinite restarts thing going for them, so they had a lot of practice. Not really saying much.
>>160829540
It wouldn't. Gil's trump card is Ea.

>>160827042
It's hardly jobbing for him to lose to Gil, since Gil had the advantage of plenty of weapons he could blast through God Hand with on top of Herc also needing to protect Illya.

>>160827042
Jobbing means losing, so he jobbed in Fate too, retard.

>>160825192
After Kerry backstabbed them, the Einzberns wanted something strong but controllable. They decided that Herakles/Hercules of all people would be super strong regardless of class & summoned him as a Berserker so he'd have minimal mental abilities. With Ilya as his master & fucktons of control, it looked pretty well for them. Archers have Independent Action anyway & would be especially uncontrollable.

>>160827827
Bazett's a fucking monster, and Cu wouldn't be perpetually nerfed, they would be major contenders that's for certain

>>160829399
>sniping being an issue, when Cu could literally lift Bazette up, and dodge all night if he wanted to

>>160830539
Stop using words you don't know

>>160831443
That may be the case but how do they beat Berserker?
Berserker is a natural counter to her and Cu

How do you defeat Shirou with UBW? I can understand that Gil is retard and doesn't know all of his weapons' special skills but Shirou knows all weapons just by looking.
If you are a swordsmaster then he can copy your moves or use a spear to counter you (worse he can copy Gae Bolg).
If you are an archer then you better shoot faster and harder than him because Shirou can do the "If I want this arrow to land on this place then it will do so." bullshit. Not to mention Shirou can shoot a lot of swords just like arrows.
If you are a dragon or have special whatever then he can just counter it with his library of weapons.
UBW is like the most deus ex machina powerup, unless you're a gary stu your weakness will be exploited by UBW.

>>160831578
retard

>>160829013

>>160831578
No one ever said they had to try soloing everyone alone, they could let someone else deal with Berserker first, since even if they encounter him they can surely get away with how agile Cu is, or team up with another master servant pair

>>160830539
no
it doesn't

at least it didn't mean that until you underage started using it incorrectly

>>160831606
You don't actually get all of the weapon owners skills in projecting it, do you really think Archer would stick with Kanshou and Bakuya, with the occasional Broken Phantasm peppering if it worked that way

>>160831606
>I didnt read the VN: the post

>>160831497
Need I remind you that Saber is also really fucking strong, and that if that was an option, she'd have done it when the sniping was happening to her and Shirou. Defending against Archer's arrows and carrying the Master away simply appears to be too difficult to be feasible, and approaching doesn't seem to work, since Archer was able to drive Lancer away when he wasn't trying to kill Cu. And also, they need to be able to see the first attack coming in the first place, and without Instinct, that seems somewhat unlikely.

>>160831731
>Lancer has Protection from Arrows B
>Saber does not

>>160831711
>do you really think Archer would stick with Kanshou and Bakuya, with the occasional Broken Phantasm peppering if it worked that way
He wants to hide his ace, if Lancer knew he could Rho Aias then he wouldn't waste his NP on Archer
>>160831727
? Shirou could even copy and remake Nine Lives into a skill, what am I missing?

>>160831811
>As long as the attack is a thrown type, he can avoid even Noble Phantasms, but he can't gain the effects of this protection with respect to wide range attack types where the attack range of the weapon explodes on impact, or a direct attack by a weapon that has simply long reach.
Hrunting and Archer's other Broken Phantasms aren't throwing type weapons, and Hrunting will just keep seeking its target as long as Archer aims at them. According to my knowledge of Cu, he doesn't have anything that can deal with Archer's stronger long-range attacks.

Also, Archer has very high-class AoE weapons like Caladbolg, so even that weakness is covered.

Archer just has good enough weapons to bypass Protection From Arrows, it's not that big of a shock.

>>160831917
If he was an expert at just pulling and using the right weapon against his enemies at any time, then he wouldn't have even needed the Raw Ass gambit, he'd have just gotten something good at killing the divine and kicked Cu's ass then and there, rather than being manhandled whenever they fight

No one can beat Shirou

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Why would you expect anything logical out of characters in the nasuverse it's literally all teenage fanfiction

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>>160832062

>>160832046
He can trace skills required to wield. But not on the mastery level.
Thats why he could overpower gilgamesh. He even said that.
The reason he uses K&B because he likes and is comfortable with them.

>>160832029
>Ability to deal with projectiles. This is a power Cu Chulainn was born with. It's said that it's possible for him to avoid any long range attack if he has made visual confirmation of his opponent. He can deal with most projectiles even in conditions where the opponent cannot be visually seen. Even if the battle with Hasan Sabbaha, he cancelled the throwing swords hurled from the darkness. As long as the attack is a thrown type, he can avoid even Noble Phantasms
If it's a projectile aka it flies, he dodges simple as that as shown by him dodging the shit out of Gil for 12 hours straight, and dodging isn't all about getting away but also getting near the enemy, there's no reason for him to play keep away, and when he gets close, well he kicks his ass, just like how he came out spotless in their second fight while Archer was a bloody mess

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>>160831606
Leave Emiya to me

>>160827129
Isn't it also possible to die in that graveyard or whatever? The place where Archer goes away to snipe Herc.
Been a while since I played FSN.

Why not just shoot all the other masters to death instead of dealing with all this magic fights? It's not like the masters actually hide their identities.

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>>160827327
>use yourself as a catalyst
Okay but I'd better get a cute and or sexy girl servant

>>160832277
That's what Kerry did but he's a dumb manchild who didn't understand his own wish.

>>160832277
Because their magic ghosts are faster than bullets, and bullets don't do shit to actually good magi, unless you've got weird ass shit like Kerry's bone bullet

>>160832333

>Didn't understand his own wish
>Grail interprets everything through destruction

Zero is bad and I don't particularly like Kerry, but I don't think he didn't understand what he was wishing for. He knew it wasn't logical, but he was promised a miracle and that's what he was betting on.

Could they use Cu's Gae Bolg ability as a medium to make a wish that all the other masters died? Reversing cause and effect?

>>160832384
Why the fuck would you use the Grail to kill the Masters when you've already won the Grail?

>>160832504
So they don't come after you once they realize what you've done.

>>160832384
You're going to go win yourself a magical wish granting artifact, and you waste it on wishing the other masters dead, rather then actually killing the fucks during the war itself if you were so scared at them taking revenge

Seriously

>>160832384
But is that how Gae Bolg works? I thought you can reverse the cause and effect but it doesn't mean you can kill everyone with it. Like Gae Bolg wouldn't work on someone who is as tough as Hercules

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>>160832384
Hey you just made me think of something
What if you made a wish on the grail to kill all other masters back in the past, thus making it so that you win in the present.

>>160832222
If he can just dodge any and all projectiles, how did Archer force Lancer to retreat when he tried getting into Shinto? Cu has limits to his projectile defence, and it's even mentioned in the thing you're quoting that he can only deal with projectile NP's if they're thrown, which Archer's most definitely aren't.

Lancer's PfA entry lists multiple weaknesses in it, all of which Archer has been shown to be able to exploit. I don't get why you seem to think that Lancer is just immune to projectiles, but that's clearly not the case from the description we're given.

The only times we see or hear evidence of PfA is during Fate when he stalls Gilgamesh, in the UBW anime when he deflects a couple of quick shots from Archer, and in HF when he defends against True Assassin's knives, which are just regular weapons and not Noble Phantasms, even if they go fast. The only time when we hear of him being unable to deal with projectiles is with Gil after 8-12 hours, and when Archer just tells him to fuck off with some warning shots.

>>160825192
Why didn't Ilya just summon Kiritsugu?

>>160832623
That's why you'd use some sort of magecraft to take over the effect, so you can use the reversal of cause and effect to make it so that because you wished for the death of the other masters, you end up reaching the grail.
>>160832631
That is what I'm suggesting, using Gae Bolg's special property.

>>160832384
Why the fuck would you waste your one wish on something like that though?

>>160832631

That would qualify as sorcery.
Ignoring the fact that the grail is corrupted anyways, in it's proper form it's essentially just an enormous mana battery. It wouldn't necessarily empower a mage to use true magic if he otherwise couldn't.

>>160832672
Heracles is a father that won't shoot her...
was my joke but I remember that Heracles kills his children.

>>160832287
you are closer to an useless corpse than anything else, so good luck with Assassin

>>160832706
To kill the other masters so they don't come after you once they realize that you fucked them all over. They can't get revenge if they're all dead.

>>160832749
Then why didn't you kill them all during the war then?

>>160832762
This is more sure and less risky.

>>160832749
So you entered a war to get your one wish granted and the wish you have is to kill the people you fought against to prevent them from screwing you over?
What kind of retard like that actually manages to win the war?

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>>160832743
Assassin is a fun class too.

>>160832784
It may not even be a fight. Just the war starts, you make your wish, and you win instantly. I don't see the problem.

>>160832780
No, that still doesn't make any sense. You'd blow your one wish on something you should've done on the way to winning said wish?

>>160832722
I was thinking the grail is connected to the throne of heroes, which is outside of time so maybe the grail can move outside of time too. It can just shoot it's magic energy into the masters of the past.

>>160832813
It's not blowing the wish. It's ensuring you win the war with your wish.

>>160832811
How the fuck would that work? You need seven servants in the grail for the wish to even work. This implies you've dealt with everyone already and have already CS'ed your Servant to kill himself.

>>160832848
By reversing cause and effect, it should be possible. You make a wish to kill the other masters, and because of that wish, it would fill the grail and you will CS your Servant to kill themselves.

>>160832822
I don't think so, the grail basically just dials the throne until a hero picks up and answer the summons of their own free will. I don't think the grail has any means to manipulate the throne, and HF makes in pretty clear in the finale that the grail is nothing more than a nearly infinite source of mana.

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>>160832884
I'm done. You're just baiting, right?

>>160832953
No, I'm serious. The grail is only good for destruction. Why not let it have its fill and go on your merry way where you don't have to worry about getting killed by angry magi?

>>160832988
No, that's not the problem. You cannot make a wish without killing the other Servants first. Otherwise Zouken could just walk up to the Greater Grail and ask for it to grant his wish.

>>160832988
>Anon walks up to the grail and says "kys"
What happens?

>>160833029
That's why you take over the special effect of Gae Bolg. You invert cause and effect so that the effect of your wish comes now, and what allows that to happen and fill the grail is the wish you made with that power.

>>160833099
Allahu Ackbar.

>>160833109
You still have to fuel it before anything happens, you tard, Gae Bolg ain't free, and neither is making wishes

>>160833158
The cause would be the grail being filled. The effect would be a wish killing all the masters and their Servants. It's just inverted this way.

Despite them meaning absolutely nothing usually, I find the stats on Servants to be really interesting.

>>160833268
>Despite them meaning absolutely nothing usually
Lancer Lucks wants to have a word with you

>>160833224
In your attempt to be clever you've gone full retard.

>>160833268
Only Luck is inconsistent and circumstancial, all the other ones are very clearly defined measurements of physical/magical power.

>>160833224
>Activating this weapon means you've already been stabbed, then reality catches up

>Guiz why can't they just take the thing and put it in another thing

Seriously, nigga?

>>160829399
Lancer jobbed to true assassin in hf

>>160833957
Wasn't that because of the Shadow? I remember it being the reason why he lost, but I could just be remembering it wrong

>>160833980
He got stuck in the grail mud. Then assassin killed him cause he could. Tried it again with Saber and failed

>>160825192

Fuck knows what they were thinking if by some chance Ilya kept winning she would have collapsed by the end anyways as she took in the servents.

>>160834135
She had Sella and Leys to tend to things like victory

>>160834349
It's really just Sells since Leys was going to turn into a fancy dress soon

>>160831578
By going for the master of course

>>160834387
When was she going to wear the dress of heaven? Thought it was made for Ilya

>>160834683
Leysritt transforms into the dress of heaven for Illya to wear

were Illya's servants in the game? I only remember them from the anime and f/ha

>>160834718
They were, I distinctly remember Sella causing a dead end

>>160832848
Actually you only need 6 for the wish-making portion. 7 if you want to unlock the gates to the void.

>>160834909
The root i mean, fuck.

>>160834718
..wow, missed that one