Would the anime industry collapse if the Japanese unionized and

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not really

>>160591230
i meant to say, it would probably degrade a lot

>>160591230
I'm not quite sure what that image is supposed to convey. Are those number adjusted for merchandising and advertising? Anime typically only has to pander to the Japanese while the west is much wider reaching.

>>160591350
that's the animation budget
right looks more expensive despite costing less than half as much

>>160591183
Toei is unionized, look at OP or DBS, the shows look like utter garbage.

They'd just outsource it even more.

>>160591230
Aren't eastern animators paid jack shit though?

>>160591183
It's scientifically proven that better working conditions result in better quality. The nips have been in denial about this for years.

>>160591479
It's also scientifically proven that things become logarithmically more expensive the longer a trade union continues to exist.
They quickly outlive their original purpose and it becomes a game of GIVE US MORE MONEY FOR LESS WORK OR WE WALK every year.

>>160591230
>>160591384

Some points to be made:

Gargantia (and anime in general) make much greater use of still and reused frames. So, more detail per frame, but fewer frames.

Also, Adventure Time is a much better show. Opinions will differ here, of course. But I watched both, and AT was far more creative and interesting, both visually and in terms of plot and characters. You want the good shit, you pay the crazy artists.

Now, this isn't totally a fair comparison. AT is an excellent western cartoon, and Gargantia is a strictly mediocre anime. But the idea that anime is "better and cheaper" than western cartoons is nonsense.

>>160591549
Trade unions or not, the actual problem of "overwork death" is deeply ingrained in Japanese cultural. People just don't want to be the first guy to leave from office, working long hours are the norm. There are a lot of unwritten rules that just make everything a giant pain.

>>160591664
>visually
I've done better drawings in MSPaint.
>>>/co/

>>160591549
this. a teacher in Germany can make about 50,000€ a year. yet they recently went on a strike for more salary. Like seriously?

>>160591183
>Would the anime industry collapse if the Japanese unionized and demanded more for their work in animation?

No, they would get laughed at and everything would be animated entirely by Koreans/Chinese or use 3DCG.

>>160591183
>unions
>winning
haha

>>160591855
Show us

>>160591958
Cost of living. You need teachers, teachers need to live.

>>160591183
>Asking /a/ as if /a/ knows shit.

Work ethics in Japan is insane, and the parasites who enjoy the fruits they produce don't care.

>>160593372
50k a year is a fucking ton, with all the vacation they have.

>>160591230
Are western animator incapable of doing anything than the 3/4 perspective?

>>160594210
double edged sword
teachers get breaks like the students, but they don't get paid between semesters

>implying spineless nips would dare to do something like that
They are a submissive people

>>160591855
Come now, i liked adveture time too when it first came out

I think Anime would look better if they didn't have those outrageous scheduling.

>>160594344
bullshit

>>160595203
why would you pay your teachers if they're gone for 2 whole months?
only summer school teachers get paid during the summer, nobody gets paid during the winter break
i don't know how it works in other countries, but in the US, teachers only get paid 8-10 months out of the year.

>>160591183
Quantity for sure. Shows would be less frequent, but a better schedule and working conditions could help the in-betweeners. That being said, plot and visual design are always important, so it's not like it'll improve dramatically.

>>160591664
>MUH FRAMES
There is nothing impressive in animating detail-less clumps of simple geometric shapes, barely above stick figures, no matter how fluid it is.

>>160591958
Dude 50k its not so much, specially in some parts of Germany.

>>160591830
>overwork death
Bullshit. Japan is a country of lazy asses. The reason why they """work""" sixteen hours a day is because they are paid for time spent in the office, not for work they do. They could sleep, watch football or fuck a pillow at their workplace instead of working and no one would care.Their efficiency is nil, a task as simple as sending a mail can take hours to finish. This is how university graduates live.

No, everyone would be KyoAni. Work quality increases when workers are treated well.

>>160591183
Otaku cannot socialize, so they will never form an union.

Otaku animators exist to make otaku trash for shitty otaku customers.
The best part is that they practically work for free, because they love doing anime.
There has to be a way to squeeze out even more money from those otaku animators.

Studios should actually start forcing their animators to pay for the privilege of working on anime.
This will maximize the profits for the producers and the studio owners even more.

un ionized? was the fukushima meltdown really that bad?

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>>160600414

>>160600473
Studios already make animators who haven't managed to become key animators after a few years pay for using their work desk.
Of course, that's more of a subtle bullying and mobbing tactic to get rid of that low-quality employee, but still, it's a good way to minimize costs.

They could sell it as a seminar.
>Learn how to make anime at our anime studio
>Constant supervision
>365 days of learning
>Only 10k dollars
>(no refunds)

>>160600772
Don't forget
>paid internships to get your foot in the door
I mean paid as in the employee PAYS the company to let them intern.
And they can't say no because animators are a dime a dozen

>>160591183
Nah, we'd just get more cheap 3DCG shit made in Korea or the Philippines

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>>160597852
Can you just sit down for a second and consider how much money that is every month and how exactly that is "not so much"? I'm by no means a Commie but to think that one can't live properly with that kind of money is beyond me. If you feel like complaining anyway, fine but don't expect people to not wonder whether or not your head is on right.

>>160591183
Pretty much yeah. At the very least there would be less Anime.

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>>160600872
And once the local Japanese have been milked dry, make the same offer in South East Asia.
Free money.

>>160591183
Japanese unions are more or less an extension of the company in practice, and the incredible supply of cheap labor even inside of Japan means any industrial action would have a hard time succeeding.

I mean, any company commissioning a new series can just pick another studio to do it. It's not impossible, but I would think they have a better chance at changing the law.

>>160601256
Nobody's really going to change the law to help the otaku, though. They're an embarrassment to everyone, and they work on late-night cartoons which only losers would ever admit of watching in public.
It's best to simply let things continue as it goes on and remind the rest of the populace to shame and shun all those creepy otaku for being creepy otaku.

>>160595203
>>160595263
I think it varies by school district, it may be state. When I was in HS the teachers could choose to be paid year round or have slightly higher paychecks only during the school term. Both gave the same amount, just differed in how it was payed.

>>160591664
>Adventure Time is a much better show.
Oh fuck lord no it is not.
It is embarassing trash that only adult creeps like.

>>160591183
No, only the otaku brand stuff.

But I can see the japanese government doing something like that to help break the embarassing otaku animation thing and that would force them to make stuff that's more on the up and up for the general populace and normie foreigners.
All in time for the olympics in a few years.

>>160591183
I want to make Ema a single mother.

>>160601676
So /a/ and /co/.
After all, AT is also popular in nipponland.
When nips talk about Kemono Friends, one of the positive qualities they mention about it is that the show reminds them of Adventure Time.

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>>160601436
No, any relief should come as comprehensive labor reform, across all sectors, but issues like >>160601256 and the iron triangle make it unlikely that anything will happen so long as the LDP autocrats remain in power. It might have a shot if the DPJ comes back, but Japan has essentially been a one-party state for most of its postwar existence.

The only real hope is a raising of consciousness on the part of the workers, but the culture of submissiveness to authority is so ingrained in Japanese society, my hopes for that happening on our timescale are not great.

>>160591183
Have you checked the credits of anime recently? Nearly all of them are made in Taiwan and Korea already.

>>160602081
>blessed with free elections and multi-party democracy by USA
>vote for the same party every time except like twice

What's wrong with Japs?

>>160602321
Change is bad.

>>160602321
Yanks are voting Dems and Reps a long, long time.

>>160601820
Do people still think the Olympics will affect what's broadcast on late night television?

>>160591183
>Japanese unionization
>Japanese asking for decent hours
>Japanese being forward about any of their problems
Haha, funny, now back to sleeping in your cubicle, and sucking your boss's willy, Salaryman.

Oh, but don't worry, we can name and shame companies that cause it, but not, y'know, fine said companies or anything.

We'd get fewer releases, slower merchandise cycles, shorter average episode count, but higher percentage of good vs mediocre/bad shows.

>>160602508
Yes. Because when there will be lots of gaijin tourists around at that time, many of them will also watch late-night tv and then see otaku anime.

That would be so shameful. It would bring greatest dishonor. So it is best to sanitize the shows that are aired for the duration of the Olympics.
Afterwards, things will go back to how it was before of course.

The world should only see good acceptable anime.

>>160601127
you do understand that Germany has a 40% tax combined with a local sales tax right? combined with high rent 30k won't get you far

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>>160591183
They'd just be speeding up the future of anime.

>>160594308
Many designs for Western cartoons weren't designed to be viewed head-on or directly in profile so they look fucked up in other perspectives.

>>160598154
Google サービス残業
They aren't getting paid for those hours of overtime. 9999/10000 times they're on salary. They're spending those 8 hours of overtime for nothing other than muh honor or the boss is an asshole.

>>160602051
This is the first and only time I've ever heard that on any place on the entire fucking net and social media.

The only western stuff that got mad play in japan was disney movies, beast wars and other cg transformers shows, spongebob and my little pony.
Everything else was a tossup.

>>160602867
There are always a shitton of gaijin tourists in Tokyo and the otaku culture, even during the Olympics, will be a big driver.

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>>160602877
>combined with high rent 30k won't get you far

>>160602508
They killed comiket.

>>160602771
Nah, most of the otaku producers will start putting up stuff on the paid streaming sites. Might even get together and make their own little apps for the iphone/android/consoles so they can set their own pace.

The only only thing they have to do is get a presence in certain markets and sell directly to them. You honestly believe that patreon and the like wouldn't be outright fucking abused by them?

>>160603376
Just for one year and only the summer one.

>>160603161
It's ugly.

Also the fact that they can't into creative camera work.

>>160601127
50k is not so great, you are not working poor, I never said that, you are not surviving on beans and rice but is not so great if you take account the effort to become a teacher. is not a good paid career at all.

And in some places, the rent is going to eat half of that paycheck, plus expenses.

>>160603493
Makes sense, since it's about the summer olympics.

>>160603500
We've got a lot of our own traditions that we're stuck with.
I mean, I've never actually thought about the 3/4ths thing till now and I've been watching animation from across the world for a lot of years.

>>160591664
this guy is right. if the japs want to prove him wrong there would be AT frame rate tier anime long time ago.

>>160603291
The government wants to dictate how the otaku subculture is to be presented.
Anime featuring loli-characters doing very lewd things together will be out. Anime where two handsome pretty man will do homoerotic things will be in.

>>160591183
Anime as it currently stands does what it does because it can afford it, so to speak.

Niches shows are created because they can be cheap and fast enough to make to cover the expenses of a business.

It's why almost all American productions are unanimously sitcom comedies.
The investment into them is much higher and to survive, they have to throw a wide enough net.

Of course, you only need to look into the early 2000s to see a time when they still could afford a lot of experimentation even if the comedies won out in the end.
That wouldn't necessarily have to happen in Japan.


Basically, any higher salaries would impact the number of productions done per season. Possibly with a slightly stronger aversion to niche titles.
However, I think there's still enough of a buffer between paying the animators like lab rats and actual human beings where they could seriously make things at least a little better for them without compromising the foundations of the industry they're dealing with.

>>160603725
There's really no point in doing this.
Remember how Rio was internationally panned for trying to hide the poor people with that highway wall?

They'll just write about how the japanese government hid all the perverted cartoons during the summer olympics or some other similar narrative.

If by Japanese you mean everyone, I'd say things would be better.
Being more efficient instead of having draconian shifts = more time to consume anime.

>>160603813
The difference is that poor people ought to be helped, whereas otaku are to be shunned (even if they might just be as poor).
That means male unkempt otaku.
The cute young girls walking around in funny cosplay will of course be fine and okay.

Nothing must ruin Japan's careful presentation. Appearances are everything there after all.

>>160604117
What's the difference between unkempt ugly poor people and unkempt ugly otaku?
At least the latter wear clean clothes.
You don't even know what you're saying.

>>160591664
>Adventure Time is a much better show

>disgusting noodle-arm dumblr tier vomit-looking garbage for 8 year old children

KILL YOUR SELF
KYS
KILL
DIE
JUST DIE

I'm so embarrassed of my country's shitty animation. We could have more stuff ilke young justice, batman beyond, avatar. Instead we get rainbow vomit with geometric flat shapes like something out of a toddler's nursery, and half the show is fart jokes. I hate it I HATE IT HATE HATEEEE IT HATAAAAAAAAAEETTTTTT

Why, why do things have to be this way?

>frames

I'd rather look at a beautiful, aesthetic slideshow than a 60 fps vomit of ms paint shapes in rudimentary pastel colors. Fuck your frames. It looks like GARBAGE. A cat could throw up something more visually appealing.

>>160603813
Nobody gives a shit about nerds not getting their smut.

>>160604184
>What's the difference
One of those groups has a hobby that must be looked down upon.

>>160604211
I can hear the REEEEEEEE from over here.

>>160591183
Nah, we just start calling anime chinese cartoons for real.

>>160604259
Exactly. What does not conform must be eliminated or at least hidden away.

>>160604211
>8 year old children
8 year olds don't watch that show.
And basically all of the show is now relationship bullshit, female empowerment, and thinly veiled homosexuality pandering.
It's literally for creepy western otaku.

Quirky humor is the worst kind of humor and American cartoons tend to reek of this.

>>160604117
This so much. Saving face is a huge part of Asian culture, and Japan really wants to show off on the world stage come the 2020 Olympics. How they'll go about this is another matter. Tourists generally scrape the surface of Japanese degeneracy anyway, so it largely goes ignored. But their paranoia about it could see things adapted to suit foreigners, at least during the actual year of the Olympics.

It'll probably be business as usual after that.

>>160604272

We could have nice things. We could have aesthetic animation. Disney could stop doing 3d pissshit and shoving craptastic musicals into everything so no one but a 5 year old could take it seriously. Disney could become Ghibli, Nick could become Trigger/shaft/whatever you like, CN could become worth watching. We could have anime-quality shows without japanese autism. We could have nice things.

instead it's all fat brown lesbians with literal squares for heads, noodle arms, and rudimentary G rated garbage. Or we get vomit-ugly "adult" comedy that's just more explicit fart jokes. It's a shitty kiked-up industry with nothign good. Instead of capeshit and marvel's race to sjw pandering, we could have manga, but in color, without autism. We could have nice things. Imagine an entire parallel anime industry. Imagine double the content every year, imagine a spacerace style competition to write the most beautiful stories and have the best, most vivid animation and appealing character designs.

Instead we get pastel geometric fart jokes.

>>160591958

>Amerislaves still haven't revolted against the jewish financial slavery cabal despite having weapons

>>160604554
>Imagine double the content every year
>imagine a spacerace style competition
Imagine if you had stayed on /tv/ instead of shitting up /co/ and /a/.

>>160604554
Nah, I'm fine with western cartoons as they are. If I need to watch cap-action cartoons, then Disney and Warner Bros still provides that as well.

>>160602321
They've been indoctrinated into thinking they owe allegiance to the ruling party as long as they don't fuck up spectacularily. It's a remnant from the feudal and imperial eras that has been deliberately propagated through the school system.

>>160604753
Guns are like the lube of revolutions. They make everything smoother and easier, but no matter how much you use, nothing will go anywhere without a good solid push first.

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>>160604211
I agree, except that what you mentioned as "good examples of good western animation" is garbage as well. Especially Avatar, I'm glad just a few retards like that.
They should simply stop trying. They already have their capeshit and western films which a massive amount of trash-heads manchilds already like, so why keep trying?

Not to mention the new ones, full of forced degenerated ideas aimed to screw this generation even more.

>>160605655
>full of forced degenerated ideas aimed to screw this generation even more.
As opposed to anime, that has no degeneracy at all.

>>160602867
Why didn't this happen for Nagano then?

>>160605955
Nobody gives a shit about the winter games. It's cold. Plus, nobody knows about Nagano.
Tokyo on the other hand is the fucking capital of Japan, largest city in the world and full of technological gimmicks and delights.
Plus lots and lots of TV channels.

>>160605655

Name some westernshit that is good, then. I like avatar and korra, they're enjoyable and well animated. Not amazing story-wise, not Utena level breaking the box, but enjoyable. Let's not play this game. Thundercats, wakfu? Batman beyond? Justice league? I can't really remember any good western animation because most of it uses such an ugly style that is massively unappealing dog vomit. It's like western cartoonists go out of their way to make the ugliest style possible. No one wants to look at ugly things.

The west could have good animation. But instead they draw dumblr tier toilet humor with unlikeable spazz and autist characters OMG SO RANDUMMMMMM XDDD and ugly as roadkill art styles with episodic shit-tier status-quo stories that don't have any emotional value.

Maybe if the west just sticks with novels and nipland just sticks with animation.

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>>160591183
I wanna know how /a/ would feel about an animator's strike

It is time for the laborers to seize the means of anime production

>>160606611
Won't happen in Japan. Too many studios around, so if the animators at one studio go on a strike, another will get the job.

>>160606495
For recommendations of cartoons, please go to /co/ or /wsr/.

>>160606495
I really do like how you just pretend that there are no anime with the bad qualities that you mentioned.

>>160591230
The only time Adventure Time became watchable was when they hired Yuasa to direct Food Chain. Really makes me think

>>160591230
The difference is that AT is good

>>160591183
They would be demonized by pretty much the entire Japanese society as a whole.

>>160606958
Anon, does that look like an image that's meant to compare overall show quality? It's about visuals and budget.

>>160606958
Nah theyre the same shit. The only difference is that Gargantia takes itself seriously

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>>160594210
> 50k a year is a fucking ton, with all the vacation they have.

German teacher here, sorry to burst your bubble, but you're full of shit.

You don't make 50k € a year unless you're an old fart (IIRC 25+ years of service to get to the last level) AND A14 (which means Gymnasium teacher or a principle). Source:
> http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/beamte/bund/

Yes, there's more vacation, but that totally ignore's that the general teacher (with the few exceptions who are lazy pieces of shit) easily has to work 50-60 hours a week. Lessons are the lesser part of our work. The "vacation" is actually part of our labor agreement to bring the working hours down to 40 per week - at least in theory. We still work more than the average dude (ca. +9%) according to a recent OECD study:

> http://www.handelsblatt.com/technik/das-technologie-update/frage-der-woche/oecd-vergleich-wo-arbeiten-lehrer-am-meisten/9125898.html

>>160606611
As much as I'd like to see it, it doesn't seem likely. Japs have one of the oldest and biggest communist parties in the world, yet their culture, politics, work is hierarchical enough to make you kill yourself.
I'd support a strike. I have a pretty big backlog.

>>160602321
>blessed with free elections and multi-party democracy by the rebels
>vote for the same two parties every time
What's wrong with burgers?

>>160607061
Bruh, AT takes itself SUPER serious.

>>160606611
>It is time for the laborers to seize the means of anime production
The laborers ARE the means of anime production.

>>160609113
Then why don't they start selling directly to the audience?

>>160607749
I think I'd have to agree here. It's not like a Western writers' strike that would be hugely disruptive to ongoing storylines. I think it'd have less audience blowback.

>>160604211
>we could have more stuff ilke young justice, batman beyond, avatar

you know nothing of animation, sit down

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>>160604554
>Disney could become Ghibli, Nick could become Trigger/shaft/whatever you like, CN could become worth watching. We could have anime-quality shows without japanese autism.

I bet you think Totally Spies, Teen Titans and Ben10 were good

>>160609619
Because they need funding.

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>>160609113
No they're not. The means of production in anime are the computers, software, drawing tables, and in capital form, the money needed to feed the studio personnel from the inception of the project to its release. The laborers are laborers, something else entirely.

>>160609619

Because they aren't the ones with the ideas being animated.

The only positive about this is that because animators and VAs work in contracts, they have already been paid by the time anime finishes airing. Meanwhile the IP holders and production commitee gets fucked in the ass if the precious anime they spent millions funding production and marketing doesn't make it back the money.

BD sales basically go to the pockets of a bunch of bussinessmen, not animators or creators. They have already been paid their share.

You'd get less anime but they'd be quality.

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>>160610921
But if it does well, the animation staff that did all the work get paid the same pittance, while the fat sweaty businessmen pocket all the profits. Considering that the anime industry is overall solvent, the latter happens more often than your negative scenario.

Or, as they say in Vegas, the house always wins.

thinking that only the otaku work late with shityy salaries, you make me laugh anon

Im an Architect in japan, I work between 14-20 hours a day, no holidays and no vacations, I basically live in the office.

I still get shitty payment. What no one understands is that japanese, instead of, lets say, US citizens, many times dont charge money for their work, but they still need to do it properly. As example, in US architects charge by hour, in Japan, they charge as a "set of drawings" it means that the work needs to be done even if you lose money doing it. This system applies to any job here

>>160610921
This is true.

Even musicians here in Japan are fucked. For an announcement/advertisement soundtrack, they get paid 1 time, instead of being payd for the rights each time the advertisement plays on TV, like in europe

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>>160611492
And meanwhile, it's the time that's valuable to the worker, regardless of how much they produce during it. That's why workers in the US and Europe pushed against piece work and won the unofficial, but widely recognized right to be paid on an hourly basis.

>>160611283

To add, if it successful the creator (and maybe writers, desginers, key animators, etc) gets a lot of money as concequence of events, interviews, projects, etc they get requested to work in and the IP holders and production comitee may wanna continue working with them.

If it's not, they become forgotten but IP holders and production comitee keeps pocketing money from whatever is sold in future years.

It's pretty shitty. You don't actually help anybody buying Japanese BDs but bussiness men for the most part. And you continue to fuck over Japanese consumers who are stuck in BD hell.

Not many people outside Japan know that it's fucking hard to watch anime when living in Japan and part of the reason for that is to push BD sales.

>>160611574
>>160610921
Why do you feel entitled to continued payment forever and ever on the work you produce?
You don't own the copyrights to them, that's why you're being paid for your time.

This is basically no better than demanding royalties from used sales featuring your work.

>>160611622
I always thought that was the real reason for the late-night time slots, and not "protecting the children" or whatever crap they spew.

>>160611668

Nobody is saying they must be continued to get paid royalties, but many people on /a/ seem to be under the impression that BD sales help creators somehow. It doesn't.

Still, they get paid total shit and that's something that really needs to change.

>>160611755
>buy BDs
>series is successful
>more sequels and spinoffs are made
>studio get commissioned to make more shows
>more work for everyone involved

>>160611822

Help them as in more money goes to their pocket, of course it helps them in other ways like >>160611622
but for more content that's only if TV station or production comite feels like doing more content. Sometimes high sales don't guarantee this, specially because marketers fucking hate being wrong with their predictions, look at Tiger & Bunny.

>>160612012
What is this supposed to mean?
I keep seeing people bring up tiger and bunny but I've never seen a single screenshot or a single discussion of it on /a/.
As far as I know this show doesn't exist.

>>160612075

Tiger & Bunny got a shit budget because Sunrise and co. insisted it was not gonna work and sell like shit. It was a fucking huge success that overun every other anime on it's season including Sunrise expected hot anime. T&B fans keep begging for a continuation, it tops every single sequel poll. Sunrise turbomilks T&B but hasn't done anything in years after the movie except a few shorts.

Also there are rumors the staff got bullied at work over this. This is mentioned often here on /a/ but I have yet to see proof tho.

>>160611822
The issue is there are quite a few series that sell very well and do not get a sequel.

>>160612075
We had threads when it was airing. Its like Lupin, its not bad so theres nothing to really shitpost about. But theres also zero new material being made about it so theres nothing new to discuss.

Its absurdly popular with fujos so you probably see more if it in their circles

>>160591664
>Also, Adventure Time is a much better show. Opinions will differ here,
It's not really an opinion thing so much as it's a "You're an idiot who doesn't know anything about animation and are actually retarded if you think modern western cartoons are funny or in any way clever" thing. Gargantia was pretty bad, but the art and character designs alone give it more merit than crap like AT ever had.

>>160603237
No he's completely right. I live and work in Tokyo, and unless you work at a black company (not many people do) Japanese people just stay at work for the sake of it. Most are wildly inefficient (which in turn hurts the economy because people aren't out spending money) and like to spend time at work for no reason. I've asked friends before, and while some are smart and sought out jobs that paid a little less but had office structures that weren't retarded and everyone went home on time, others said "It's more relaxing to be at work sometimes because then we don't have to deal with family responsibility."

Please don't respond to this by doing something retarded like linking a sensational expat blog from some asshurt loser who's mad he couldn't make a harem in Japan and talks about how much it all sucks and how hard it is.

>9999/10000 times they're on salary. They're spending those 8 hours of overtime for nothing other than muh honor or the boss is an asshole.
Just stop posting.

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>>160612075

watch it nigga

>>160612489
I should probably add to this, most animators and people who work at game companies are literally slaves, though.

>>160612489
What the hell is a black company?

>>160612759
>While specifics may vary from workplace to workplace and company to company, a typical practice at a black company is to hire a large number of young employees and then force them to work large amounts of overtime without overtime pay.

This sounds like your regular office job, to be quite honest.
All developer jobs here are like this.

>>160612759
The ones with big lips.

>>160612489
I understand the sentiment about wanting to stay at the office. I work at a waterpark, and frequently after my shift, I just get a free ticket in and hang around until the place closes. If you do your job well, you often get a lot more respect from co-workers than you do family. And customers are usually very polite because they don't want to get ejected.

But then again, I work at a waterpark. I'm not drawing a wage for the time I stick around, so my situation isn't exactly analogous.

>>160612830
So basically a sweatshop?

Wow, I stand corrected. Japan DOES have a labor problem.

>>160612759
They produce watermelon based products.

>>160612947
I just looked at my coworker like she had three heads when she told me. Leaving work is fun because I can do anything I want. I also live alone, though, but even then I can't imagine being that stressed out by dealing with my family.

>>160613052
Yeah, I still live with my family, so at home, I'm always expected to do stuff like cook and clean. But the more time I spend at work or school, the less of that I get saddled with.

In fact, I'm actually at a company party/banquet right now. It's certainly more enjoyable than anything else I'd be doing on a Tuesday evening.

>>160613329
Even when I lived with my parents, I'd prefer being at home and doing work there to doing work at a job. I don't know, I just can't wrap my head around it.

>>160604554
>We could have nice things. We could have aesthetic animation. Disney could stop doing 3d pissshit and shoving craptastic musicals into everything so no one but a 5 year old could take it seriously. Disney could become Ghibli, Nick could become Trigger/shaft/whatever you like, CN could become worth watching. We could have anime-quality shows without japanese autism. We could have nice things.
>instead it's all fat brown lesbians with literal squares for heads, noodle arms, and rudimentary G rated garbage. Or we get vomit-ugly "adult" comedy that's just more explicit fart jokes. It's a shitty kiked-up industry with nothign good. Instead of capeshit and marvel's race to sjw pandering, we could have manga, but in color, without autism. We could have nice things. Imagine an entire parallel anime industry. Imagine double the content every year, imagine a spacerace style competition to write the most beautiful stories and have the best, most vivid animation and appealing character designs.
>Instead we get pastel geometric fart jokes.
Reminder that American Animation is steadily sliding downwards.

>>160613970
Steadily? It's in a full sprint.

>>160611755
>but many people on /a/ seem to be under the impression that BD sales help creators somehow. It doesn't.
It does. Anime does not produce it-self. Good sales-figures of BD's (foreign rights sales count into this) help demonstrate a studio's ability.

This is work-for-hire after all. They NEED a new contract after the current one finishes.

>>160612489
I read somewhere that living-room-typish companies are apparently common in Asia.

(Ground-floor regular shops. 1st floor Living-room/office.)

Might just be limited to a region of Thailand though.

>>160612830
>This sounds like your regular office job, to be quite honest.
>All developer jobs here are like this.
Management Jobs are like that too.

>>160613915
I think the issue is my parents never appreciate anything I do, regardless of how well it's done, whereas my employer assigns me a relatively straightforward task, trains me before I start doing it, and is always around to help with anything that's out of my league. And as long as I'm punctual and display a good work ethic, they're always appreciative of me. My parents on the other hand are terribly at specifying what they want out of me, and always bitch before, during, and after.

>>160614017
Steadily sliding downwards can also be limited to direction.

A (strictly) monotonically decreasing function basically.

>>160591183
Japan and most of east Asia would fall apart if unions existed

>>160614406
I don't think he's using the math definition, baka tensai.

>>160591664
>>>/co/

>>160614406
When it's very clear you know exactly what everyone means, what's the point of quibbling over semantics like that? Don't be that guy.

>>160612830
>tfw I refuse outright to do unpaid work
Feels good to not be a cuck.

>>160614690
you're at the top of the layoffs list

>>160614690
I don't do unpaid work either, but on the clock, I don't do anything that isn't work, and if there isn't work, I find some. I think that's only fair, and so far my employer hasn't complained.

>>160604211
>>disgusting noodle-arm dumblr tier vomit-looking garbage for 28 year old adult children
fixed that for you

>>160614340
Your parents are shitty household managers I guess.
Like me!

>>160614754
Should just put him on the bottom of the promotions pile. (Reminder: If you want to get promoted you should tell them that you'd like new challenges ... Basically tell them that you are available. That is the first rule of Promotions. Don't bitch if they can't read your mind.)

>>160614754
>work for X hours
>Don't slack off, work hard and efficient
>Get paid for X hours of work because I did X hours of work
>implying they would fire me for some shithead that slacks off all the time because hell stay around for an extras few hours and not get paid, but not get near as much work done

rly makes u think

>>160591183
Reminder the animations don't get paid myth is just that; a myth. Only unskilled low level Korean subhumans who only make mouths flap or draw hilariously shitty inbetweens complain about their paycheck. Never in the history of animation has a good animator complained about money (this is a FACT you can confirm with Google)

Volume would drop obviously but average quality would go up probably because then not every shitty manga/LN gets animated, although creativity would also be reduced.

>>160591183

we'd get less anime
that would be selected more rigorously
and the industry would invite new workers.
....
anime would be saved, actually

>>160614754
I don't do unpaid work out of respect to my co-workers. The more uncompensated work I do, the less hours they get, and some of them need those hours a hell of a lot more than I do.

>>160604554
I don't want manga in color. It would increase costs too much and lead to less risk taking on kooky ideas.

I want westerners to stop drawing "manga style" like they spent 15 minutes reading a how to draw manga book while still knowing little of perspective, dynamic paneling and writing dialogue.
I want to read western hero comics that don't fill up half the panels with word balloon soliloquies in the middle of an action scene.
I want to read western indie comics that don't use dour thick lines on everything, don't constantly use boring 9x9 or 16x16 grid layouts, that cover topics more lighthearted than 20s ennui, family drama, abuse, serial killers, politics, and suburban dystopia.

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>>160615223
Sounds like a plan then.

>>160604919
>Guns are like the lube of revolutions. They make everything smoother and easier, but no matter how much you use, nothing will go anywhere without a good solid push first.

man i love you, that is awesome, please fuck my white sister!

>>160614986
Bottom of the promotion-pile I said!

>>160615327
Western comics suck so much now. CCA only gave push.

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>>160615834
CCA?
>>160615327
i know, i hate western wannabe-mangaka too
why even want hero comics?
indie comics are usualy trash. sort through 10, find 1 good one. maybe.

>>160615585
I don't go for cheap whores.

>>160615995
wanna talk about anime?

ShiroBako.

always relevant, until the industry has major changes

>>160615784
Yeah, it's always the people who are competent at their jobs that are last in line for promotions. The idiots are always fast-tracked to middle management.

>>160616073
I was going to call you dumb until I read your last line. Yes, middle management is for idiots, but who cares about that? If you're actually smart, some supervisor will ask you if you want to move up to a "real" job.

>>160616173
I honestly don't get why middle management is still a thing anymore. The internet and other forms of communication as well as industrial cybernetics makes it unnecessary to have things like regional managers. It would make more sense if upper management was both expanded and flattened so it would be like a comission of people specialized in various aspects of the business, but able to administer and react to situations anywhere in the corporate operation.

>>160615995
>CCA?
Comics Code Authority. The industry self-imposed censorship group that arose in the 50s during the moral panic over crime, horror, and romance comics corrupting children. Cucked, neutered, eunuched american comics for 50 years.
>why even want hero comics?
Because they can be good, see My Hero Academia, Tiger and Bunny, Dragonball manga, etc.

>>160616073
Competent but not smart.

1. Didn't ask for further options to develop ("I'm available for Promotion. If you want!")
2. Didn't play the promotion game right.
3. Didn't put in the work.
4. Didn't dress for the job they want.
5. Didn't slowly eke out more responsibility supporting their boss. (Basically self-organization and effective communication with team-mates.)

>>160616357
>I honestly don't get why middle management is still a thing anymore.
Management apprentices.
CEO's are the result of a long and arduous filtering process most of the time.

>will paying animators fair wages or allow them to have unions destroy anime?
No. Simply no.
Other industries have made the same argument before. Oh but the cost will be too high which in turn will force the price to go up or the availability to go down..etc. All bullshit.
Unions and fair wages didn't destroy other industries, nor will they destroy anime.
It's that simple. There is no need for long winded discussion.

>>160591183
>unions
>asia
top kek

>>160617749
They started organizing in Bangladesh after that garment factory fire.

>>160591664
There are good western shows but AT is pretty average. Same problem as a lot of anime, actually, identifies a target market (nostalgiafags) and markets the shit out of it.

Don't tell me you're gonna defend Danger and Eggs next.

>>160616047
Ok lets talk about that Shirobako image. As you can see the character who sucked at drawing, was still a novice in training, and couldn't do jack shit by herself gets $9,400. The important artist who draws iconic shit people remember gets $44,000. What's the problem here? A talentless nobody gets paid in order to be trained and will eventually rise up the ranks if they don't suck, sounds like a nice deal to me.

>>160606611
I'd welcome it, there are too many show/studios and the pay scares away budding talent. It doesn't have to be crazy higher, just enough so that dougamen can afford to live independently.

My backlog is gigantic anyway.

>>160604211
You are the actual definition of a weeaboo.

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I've been saying several times now that I wish more American animators would've followed John K. instead of CalArts. Say what you will about his art style, the man combines framerate and detail quite well.

>>160618851
CalArts and the CG craze ruined American cartoons, ruined most American action and fantasy movies, and is ruining anime (mech is pretty much dead already). CG was a fucking mistake.

>>160591183
I want to make Ema a single mother

>>160591183
Even if they did that all the work would get outsourced to chinkland.

>>160591549
Profits go up. Salary stays the same. I guess every one got more efficient instead should of stayed at the same level as they first started.

>>160618959
CG wouldn't be so bad if they actually used the tools interestingly, like how Rick and Morty does it. most of the problem with animating with CG is that they still treat it like traditional animation lite, instead of really exploring what you can do with a CG animation. but that is a post for /co/ and not /a/. closest thing i've seen done is JoJo, and that....isn't really a great example.

>>160619451
>Rick and Morty
And there goes your credibility.

>>160619568
You forgot
>closest thing i've seen done is JoJo
These fucking normalfags need to keep their totally ignorant opinions to themselves.

>>160618959
CG can be ok, it still has time to grow and refine itself.
Traditional animation probably isn't going to die for a quite a while anyways.
To be honest, seeing CG vehicles and background mobs in regular anime bother me more than series done entirely in CG nowadays.

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>>160604554
Ringworld anime fucking when?

>>160619744
I didn't make it that far into his post.

>>160619842
CG isn't some new budding technology. It's been around for decades, and it always meshes horribly against hand drawn or live action. It's fucking garbage, and needs to stop being used to replace real animation and practical effects.

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Even USSR made some. Not alone but with Japan.

>>160608344
Not completely true. in the modern era there are only two major partys which are comprised of a bunch of smaller groups that consolidate under democrat or rebublican, but we've also gone through the whigs, federalists,and democratic (Not actually the modern democrats)

>>160591230
Haven't really watched AT but, is that $350k even equivalent to Gargantia's 1cour season?
Cos' looking up in google, AT's episode is still only half the duration of a seasonal anime, and is still ongoing.

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>>160591183
I want to make Emma a single mother

>>160620915
What the actual fuck are you saying? That's cost per episode, and each episode fills a half hour tv slot.

>>160598154

You are wrong. Unpaid overwork is the norm for salarymen in japan.

>>160620225
Watched this thing when i was young. Really good

Some Russian Hacker

>>160621017
You're an idiot who's never actually worked in Japan.

>>160591664
I don't like Adventure Time also with such simple designs they likely use computer assist a lot to blend frames. Rick and Morty is good enough for me. Most Western Animation productions are absolute garbage. Even if you assume AT is good there is probably a handful of decent western animation shows.

Relatively speaking Japanese animation products are far more plentiful and cover a much more diverse range of genres which means you can find something you like to watch far easier than in Western animation which is almost exclusively kid, superhero, comedy.

Final nail in the coffin for Adventure Time is the animation is actually mostly outsourced to cheaper Korean animators. Rough Draft Korea or Saerom Animation go look at their works list it ain't pretty. This basically runs entirely counter to your just pay your animators when they pay a select few tons of money and then offload the actual work to cheap offshore labour.

>>160621188
B-But obviously everything said in anime about black companies is 100% true and applies to every company!

>>160601996
>>160619193
>>160620980
I want to fund a happy and wealthy family with Ema.

>>160621017
Unpaid overwork/time is the norm for countless salaried employees around the world. Even in the US the floor for overtime pay is low.

>>160591664
>thread is talking about animation
>autistic faggot that watches shitty cartoons brings up "plot and characters" to prove how his shitty cartoon is totally better than anime

>>160621237
Nah, I think it's more a SEA monkey pretending that being Asian and reading blogs about Japanese idols and shitposting on /jp/ makes him a Japan expert. That's usually the case.

>>160620146
>CG isn't some new budding technology.
No shit, but when we talk about cg in anime most people refer to the actual 3d rendering in the context of what we've been getting in modern anime the past 2 odd decades and not the drawing aid that's used to supplement traditional animation, this style of using cg in anime is still relatively new.
And with regards to practical effects, and I'm assuming you're talking about film, it's just another tool in the tool belt along with CG for film makers, they each have their strengths and weaknesses, poorly implemented practical effects are just as bad as shit CG, it's all in the use and plenty of movies use both and look fine.
If you're saying that CG always meshes horribly it means you can watch every single movie made in the last 40 years and point out every single use of CG in each because it'll look horrible and I don't think you can do that.

>>160621572
>It's just another tool!
Not today, CG shill. Fuck off and kill yourself.

>>160621592
You sound mad.
Maybe it'll help if you masturbate to some 70s B movies ; )

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>>160621592
>It's just another tool!
I mean yeah, you can't really deny this fact.

>>160621642
You sound like someone who wasted time studying CG and pretends he's a real artist with talent. Maybe you should go watch some movies about CG talking animals and fap.

>>160621017
>You are wrong. Unpaid overwork is the norm for salarymen in japan.

Wrong, they receive a nice bonus plus some days off , usually one or two, dependending if the task went overnight.

It's not that bad, but of course that is if you aren't working in a black company.

>>160621716
I sure as fucking hell hope you're not implying CG dance sequences in idol shows look good enough to even be called passable.

>>160621755
Neither of those screencaps are from CG dance sequences in idol shows my man.

>>160621816
Sorry, "musical performance". CG performance sequences look like absolute shit, whether dancing or playing instruments.

>>160591230
>implying this isn't proof of Japanese animators being paid poorly
There's a reason why so many Japanese animators work on multiple anime at a time and, as a result, end up dying from overwork.

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>>160591664

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No, don't you understand? Anyone who works for a living is lucky that they're permitted to exist and do that work, and any attempts to try to negotiate a stronger deal and better quality of life are literally socialism.


By the way I live off of government money.~ t. a crossboarding /pol/tard

>>160621847
Kyoani animators get paid salary, don't have long days, and their anime have normal (if not small) budgets.
>inb4 some retard says "They animate things I don't like so it doesn't count!"

>>160621895
>This absolute garbage falseflag shitpost
Fucking leafs.

>>160621842
But it's impossible to have a good looking musical performance without cg unless you hire the greatest animators to have ever lived. Are you saying only Sunrise should be allowed to produce music themed anime?

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>>160621920
How could it be a "falseflag"? I'm not claiming to be anyone beyond the scope of blatant mockery.

I'm just making fun of you fat losers for weighing in on workers' rights when you're openly proud about being unemployable slobs.

>>160621966
Watch Hibike.

>>160621995
>How could it be a falseflag?
>All I'm doing is claiming to be someone I'm not for the sake of mocking them and exaggerating the way they behave to make them look bad
Canadians are the stupidest fucking people alive, and if every single one of you died, it'd be a month before the rest of the world even noticed. Your "humor" is garbage and you'll never be Australia. Now run along and suck some dog dick.

>>160621995
This is 4chan. You're garbage. Just like everyone els here.

>>160622015
It's cute that you actually believe in the KyoAni circlejerk meme. Behold, this is what true animation looks like.
https://vimeo.com/211523232

>>160594210
I bet you think teachers have the same time off as the kids. They spend most of the school holidays preparing for the next semester, doing meetings and training sessions.

>>160616756
Smart people don't go for promotions, they hop companies every couple years for a 50%+ raise. Staying at one company is a thing of the past.

>>160622067
Maybe, but I'm garbage that can at least acknowledge my own shortcomings instead of spouting stupid shit that makes life worse for """normal""" people.
The Koch brothers are wasting their money when they've got this kind of stupid flying around for free.

>>160601676

dude if anything anime is what adult creeps like lmao

>>160591183
Unions are dead in Japan.

T. Know a Japanese welder guy at my job at an oil company

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>>160622132
Garbage is still garbage no matter how you look at it. I can sprinkle glitter on shit but its still shit.

>>160622093
>liking idolshit
Kill yourself.

>>160602321
No compulsory voting. Japanese people under 60yo don't have time to care enough about politics to actually go and vote. They only get a 20% something turn out and the average voting age there is really high.

Also change is bad because muh tradition, Yakuza influence and Japs can't into critical thinking or thinking of their own wants or needs.

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Do you prefer the lower framerate scenes in anime that depict 3d space and realistic movement/weight far better or the constant high framerate of Western shows where character move as if they're cardboard cutouts?

>>160622212
Nice one, bud. High quality bantz.

>>160622093
I already watch love live, you fucking idiot. You said music, not dance. Kyoani animates musical performance beautifully. LL's hand drawn segments look amazing, but the CG is fucking garbage, which is what I said. Why does everyone who complains about Kyoani have brain damage?

>>160622282
How is an ensemble singing together not a musical performance?

>>160622253
BONES need to remake this series right now

>>160622332
Because the posts you quoted were differentiating dance vs instrument. Why are you so stupid?

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>>160622253

>>160622253
>Friend tries to get me into this
>The main character has the worst fucking voice ever
>Tries too hard to be funny and wacky
>Comes off super cringe

>>160618551
note, animators normally get paid by commission on how much cuts they can make and how good it is

so the more experienced the animator, the more cuts they can do, and the more money they can make

>>160622403
Rude. There's no need for name calling. What the fuck do you want me to say? We all know CG looks like shit, but what can we do about it? The answer is to lie to ourselves, to pretend to enjoy it long enough until we trick ourselves into doing so. CGShit will never go away thus we either adapt or die.
Now repeat after me: CG dances & performances in general look good!

>>160622611
Some idiots think it looks good, and burying your head in the sand is horrible. Unfortunately, that's what Japanese fans do. Every conversation goes like this. "Yeah the CG looks really bad, but oh well, I'll just try to ignore it."

Have some standards.

>>160622253
tfw the used the entire budget on episode 1 to bait people to think the entire show is gonna look like this.

>>160614754
You give them an inch they'll go a million miles.

>>160616502
>My Hero Academia, Tiger and Bunny, Dragonball manga, etc.

Only tiger and bunny is good.

>>160617921
Eastern Asia is different.

>>160615314
How the fuck do they even get away with something like that? Don't minimum wage laws make that illegal?

>>160621722
You really are triggered to the brim.

>>160623061
You literally studied a worthless, artistically bankrupt craft.

>>160622063
Australia was never funny. Hint they just spread that meme around until some people took it hook line and sinker like some memes on 4chan.

>>160623111
>Worthless
>Every single big mutimillion budget movie uses it
>Every single anime uses it

>>160622768
Soul Eater's action animation was pretty consistent though.

>>160621233
American Animation is basically a scam.

>>160622768
>>160623153
Dude's gotta be talking about NOT. The statement's pretty accurate in that case.

>>160623111
What study?

>>160623137
>I'm a real artist because Jewish executives still this garbage for cost cutting mass appeal
You have artistic skill and your work is devoid of merit.

>>160623111
>>160623222
Wasted trips

>>160623239
I think you meant "trips confirm CG is garbage".