Cliche breaking

>>159962644
>it's not utter garbage.

>haremshit or CGDCT or SoL
>university instead of high school or middle school

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>>159962745
>SoL/CGDCT
>Girls in their 20's

>guy walks in on girl changing
>he picked the lock

>>159963015
kek

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>>159963015
>guy walks in on girl changing
>girl apologises for not locking the door

>guy walks in on girl changing
>tells his friends about it
>she gets bullied for being a slut, kills herself
>boy feels guilty, becomes depressed
>drops out of school

>Its some kind of 5 on 5 tournament, first to team to 3 wins is the victor
>the MC's match against the bad guy scheduled for last of course.
>MC's team wins 4-1 without the MC and big bad getting to fight, very anticlimactic.

>>159963015
>guy walks in on girl changing
>she has a dick
>but he's blind

>>159963156
>first to team to 3 wins is the victor
>>MC's team wins 4-1 without the MC and big bad getting to fight
You're not even following your own rules. This is stupid.

>guy walks in on girl changing
>girl doesn't call him a baka
>girl can't call him anything at all
>guy has cut girl's vocal chords
>girl cannot call for help

>>159963156
>first to team to 3 wins is the victor
>MC's team wins 4-1
What?

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>>159963091
This literally never happens

>>159963190
He probably meant 3:1. Otherwise it would have been 5 matches, and the MC would have gotten his match.

>>159963194
A lot of the time it's a public changing room or bath or something like that that you don't lock and which men don't go in to begin with.

>Guy explains what his powers do mid battle
>He's lying his ass off
>No one believes him anyway

>>159963206
yea, i fucked up.

>>159963265
But it's not really anticlimactic. Typically when this happens, the teams get a second match a few dozen volumes further into the story. I think Prince of Tennis has it happen.

>>159963285
ive never seen it happen, and it certainly feels anticlimactic to me, not getting to see the MC and bad guy duke it out.

>>159963309
As I said, it's build-up for the second time.

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>MC does not house a demon/god in his soul.
>his lineage is nothing special.
>hes not destined for anything via prophecy.
>his weapons and techniques are things anyone could use with training.

>>159963194
Happens in Index II when Accelerator walks in on loli mikoto and some other girl changing. Loli mikoto gets mad but the other girl apologies for not locking the door.

>>159963322
like i said, ive never seen it happen,can you point be to some shonen thats done it(not prince of tennis though, i'm hetero)

>>159962644
>MC get isekai'd
>He is not the chosen one
>All alone
>Ordinary normal MC with no special power
>Failed to do anything spectacular in this new world
>Return back to his original home unchanged

>>159962644
>MC gets by genuine hard work
Seriously, I hate how DBZ and Narutard went and said
>You can do anything with hard work
And then go and make the MC some super special fucker.

>>159963423
>not prince of tennis though,
Then I'm out of ammunition. Most team sports manga I read have the team cooperating, not playing individual matches.

>>159963648
>DBZ
Dragonball was a gag manga from the beginning. You shouldn't have expected anything else. DBZ literally started by making Goku special. You shouldn't have expected anything else.

>The chance of success is 1%
>It fails

>>159963648
DBZ still does a good job of it despite Goku being a Saiyan. He's only as strong as he is because he trains 24/7 where as a character like Gohan who has more potential and natural strength becomes a weak piece of shit because he never trains.

>>159963713
The reason I said DBZ was because when Vegeta was shittalking Goku, Goku said something along the lines of
>You can do anything with hard work

>>159963757
But for Vegeta and Goku it holds true. So what's the problem?

>>159963770
The human characters, especially Tien, work or have worked as hard Goku pre-super saiyan. Yet they all got trashed in the saiyan saga.

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>I was hoping to avoid it, but we have to use "that"
>using this technique reduces my lifespan severely
>attack is successfully pulled off
>MC croaks

>>159962840
I love older casts.

>>159963814
Again, that's basically the premise of DBZ.

>>159962644
Hunter x Hunter
>>159962745
White Album

>>159962840
This never fucking happens anon you know it

>>159963979
Watch more anime.

>>159963984
Fuck you bitch give me more cakes

>MC finish training with mentor
>Their lives are threatened
>MC dies
>Mentor becomes the new MC

>>159964065
Fund it.

>MC goes super saiyan, but his transformation is purely cosmetic and he doesn't actually get stronger

>>159963816
>MC uses his lifespan-reducing technique
>opponent tries to stall as much as possible to avoid MC's superpowered form
>time runs out and MC turns into a shriveled old man
>series is now about MC dealing with the fact that he threw away fourty years of his life in a vain effort

>>159964148
I'd watch that

>>159963258
Gin Ichimaru did that.

>Its a fantasy adventure
>MC cucks the guard to the Princess.

>>159962644
Shame that whenever anything comes close to this it turns into "MC had a secret OP power" within a few volumes/seasons.

>>159962745
Golden Time. Also Sakura Quest if all you want is women of legal age. Also Genshiken, I guess.

>>159962840
DEFINITELY Sakura Quest. Also New Game, minus the main girl, but they all look like they're 12.

>>159963091
>>159963194
I'd swear I've watched/read something where this exact thing happened, but I can't remember what it was. It was one of those "tomboy warrior woman who's oblivious to her own sexuality" kind of things.

>>159964328
Konosuba LNs. Also kind of happens in Zero no Tsukaima.

>MC has no natural aptitude for combat or any special powers
>compensates by being a sneaky, dirty-fighting motherfucker

>>159964402
Konosuba

>>159964687
>>159964417
>>159964349
This thread is not about stuff that never happens. It's about cliche breaking, ie; stuff that normally doesn't happen.

>>159964777
Actually, the protagonist having the most boring power (and the most boring personality) of the team is very much a cliche.

>>159964884
I wasn't talking about the MC being weakest, just not being the strongest, as is the case in most popular shonen(dragonball z, bleach, one piece, naruto)

>>159964777
The MC isn't weak in a lot of stories, simply retarded. If he IS weak, he tends to not be [actually] weak he just ~looks~ weak.

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>Title drop
>It's the name of a character's ultimate final ability
>It's the antagonist's not protagonist's

>>159964884
For something to be a cliche, it doesn't need to be omnipresent. It just needs to be present in a sufficiently large part of the total set of available media for people to recognize it and think "not again".
The presence of the romance genre does not mean that there is no action genre. There are sufficiently many stories with action that you can summarize them and say: yep, those share one category.

>>159965195
See >>159965230.

>>159965195
Not him, but I think they mean 'not the strongest in the group, even at the end of a story'. Negi might've been (possibly) weaker than Eva at the end of Negima, but he was stronger than everyone else in his Alra Alba, including people who started out way higher up than him, as Eva and Jack were not part of his group.

>thus is not a cliche
Wrong. The childhood friend with a crush is a cliche, but there are many stories where the childhood friend does not have a crush, or is a rival, or doesn't exist at all.

>>159963648
Gai did go up against Madara just with just hard work

>Action
>No action

>>159965266
The generic crusading paladin who wants to protect all that is good is a cliche even when he's never a thing anymore.

>>159965294
Sure is summer.

>>159965266
>Something can't be overused if it's only used on average.
Yes, it can. If 50% of the dishes you are served are pasta, that's way too much pasta.

>>159965327
Your problem is that you don't understand the term overused.

>thread derailed by one retard who thinks if something is not present in 100% of a genres storys then its not a cliche.

ohh well.

>>159965327
>https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cliche
>1.1 A very predictable or unoriginal thing or person.

>>159965327
Why don't you do the same? Cliches are overused because people are, essentially, tired of seeing them, that's why it's not a cliche for the hero to defeat the bad guy at the end but it's a cliche for the moustache-twirling vizier to secretly be the guy ruining everything.

>>159965264
Sure, but did he win? Unlike most manga and anime, I actually want the MC to win purely by working hard, no super powered bullshit or pure luck.

>>159965360
You're not even able to use full stops correctly. Why the fuck do you think you have the right to preach at anyone?

>>159965369
Don't respond to that guy. He's been breaking threads for years with his autism.

>>159965350
He's probably writing a fanfiction people called cliche

>>159965369
>changing the argument.

yep, you are a retard, take this (you).

>>159965382
I've never seen him before, does he only stick to certain threads or something?

>>159965360
>>159965294
You sound just like I did when I first came onto 4chan and thought it was a place to act like an edgy retarded asshole. Just stop posting. Lurk for a couple of years first.

>>159965393
He got famous in the Madoka threads, apparently. I don't browse them so I don't know the specifics. But it's easy to summon him if you say a certain name.

>>159965415
Wait, is this fucking crack-kun?

>>159965394
>The term over used is based on averages, e.g. math
No it isn't fucking lmao; mathematics would mean that if anything is used in more than one story, that's overused, because it is now being used more than other elements in that story. If the vizier is the villain in 20% of stories but the king is the villain in 10% then the vizier being the villain would be a cliche. This would be true if it were 2% and 1% respectively as well, as long as (50+0)% of story elements are used in less than 2% of stories.

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>>159965294
hes not me baka.

>>159965394
>e.g. math.
That would mean you have a formula. If you don't, then there is no math. Your point is empty.
Also, read the posts you respond to. Retard.

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>>159965479
don't be so mad

>>159965479
Sometimes I wonder if you are doing this all as some grand joke that nobody other than you can comprehend.

>>159965501
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They each have their entrances and their exits, and autists in particular play the Fool.

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>>159965479
>your proof does not count cause im to dumb to understand it, coulda been a decent thread.

>>159963378
Then what the point of making him MC in the first place? MC is supposed to be special, since you know, author choose him to be MC because he is more interesting than your average Joe.

>>159965556
how about an MC who is interesting by his own merit, Guts is a good example.

>>159965556
The MC isn't inherently special, but he can still be interesting. Obviously that one doesn't quite work with shonen type stories where the point is that you have to be inherently special to stand up to the lesser deities that are endbosses, but it works fine in seinen stories and such. I mean most of the top dogs in government or leading the way in science are very intelligent, but they're functionally speaking 'normal'.

>>159965556
>MC is supposed to be special, since you know, author choose him to be MC because he is more interesting than your average Joe
Characters can't be interesting unless they're some speshul snowflake - you

>an important character is in imminent danger
>no one shows up to save them at the last second and they die

>MC meets up with the big bad for the final battle
>he shows up already in his final form
>instantly unleashes his most powerful attack
>boss dies instantly since he thought they where going to wear the kid gloves and first then slowly ramp it up for 15 chapters

>>159965583
Can you please get a trip? I like you and I want to read all your comments on the archive. I definitely don't want to filter you.

based mods

>>159965644
Whether that's a cliche breaker depends on the direction, I think.

>>159965583
How many people do you think are actually on this website, right now? I would greatly appreciate your response.

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>mods doing something

>>159962644
>setting has magic and magic +1 weapons
>one character is multiple years younger than the rest and holds the top rank using a normal sword
>it isn't the MC

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>harem
>from the perspective of the haremette

Actually reading a manga of that right now called Hare Kon. It's okay after the MC stops being a bitch and admits she likes the male lead. I'd read more stuff like that.

>>159962644
Shoukoku no Altair

>MC's buttbuddy if you kill him you'll be just like him!
>MC proceeds to calmly explain why it doesn't matter whether or not his buttbuddy thinks this will make the MC 'just like him', and describes in detail why this is necessary to achieve their ultimate goals

>>159965729
>harem
>from the perspective of the haremette
Isn't that just shoujo?

>>159963091
>>159963194
IIRC happens in Dimension W too.

>>159965808
lets all agree to ignore this tard.

>>159965821
The problem is that you usually don't realize you are dealing with him until he's already going full force.

>>159965821
It's hard to figure out it's ACK until he starts quoting everyone in the thread and accusing them of being the same person, who is supposedly the now-deceased (I think) tripfag I love!Akemi.

>>159965765
Is this perhaps more common than I thought? I'm talking about an actual harem, not love triangles.

>>159965880
I think that other anon doesn't know shoujo as well as he thinks he does. But then, I'm not an expert, so maybe he knows shoujo better than I do and I'm completely wrong.

>>159965880
I haven't read that story, does it actually stay a harem the whole way through without any competition? Because the girl competing with a bunch of other women for the man is a pretty common shoujo theme.

>>159962644
>Heroes working to destroy the evil empire show up to the final battle
>They lose terribly and the MCs die
>Villians reform the empire in the end
>Heroes end up as the villians in history books
Guess what anime this is

>>159965962
One Punch Man

>>159965962
I don't need to guess. The MC was cute, but way too underused.

>>159963502
Wouldn't it be more sensical to have him die alone in this unfamiliar and, frankly, dangerous world? I mean, if you have no special powers it's only a matter of time until you're made into dead meat in isekais...

>>159965977
>MC
>underused
We're obviously talking about different shows. Which one are you thinking about?

>>159966010
>it becomes a comfy SOL show about some good for nothing NEET learning how to farm since its what youve got to do if your not some chosen one.

it would be like spice and wolf, but with agriculture instead of economics.

>>159965962
I-I dunno

>>159965962
Chain Chronicle?

>MC is some normal teen with romantic intentions
>Doesn't spend 400 episodes being an autistic shy beta fuck and actually takes initiative and is straightforward, goes on a few dates with the girl, realizes he doesn't like her that much as a person

>>159966056
And then the Elven Keening Spirit Wizard 20 / Rainbow Servant 10 shows up with nothing better to do.

>>159965976
>>159965977
>>159966087
>>159966102
It was Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans

>>159966106
Normal teenagers don't always take initiative.

>>159965962
Aldnoah.Zero?

>>159966019
If only I had a picture of a sexy loli in a leotard at hand, I could prove to you that I only forgot the show, but I really know what you meant.

>>159966146
But Vers lost in that.

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>>159966157

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>MC treats his romantic interest as a pure godess and refuses to have sex with her until he's mentally prepared for it
>she cucks him

>>159966209
>MC treats his romantic interest as a pure godess and refuses to have sex with her until he's mentally prepared for it
But an MC that doesn't do that is extremely rare outside of ecchi and hentai

>>159966209
Women are under pressure too, they can't wait forever for you, and refusing to ever move is in real life often a sign of (besides being beta) indecisiveness, aka "hmm I might dump her later for someone else".

>>159966209
I don't know what kind of stories you are thinking of, but are you sure they are /a/ related?

>>159966056
I'd watch that.

Heck, I'd watch a show that's nothing but a different non-special guy getting isekai'd each episode and seeing how they end up going what with being normal NEETple and all.

>>159966222
this has to change

>>159966140
Yes, and?

>>159966186
>that left arm
Fuck.

>>159966248
i've swallowed up tons of manga where the author kept stalling the MC from "doing it" with his GF even if the girl was practically throwing herself to him. tomo-chan for example even has a husband who is to embarrassed to have sex with his wife.

>>159966290
shit that was fast

>Main party meets a one off character early in the adventure
>they show up years later and they've level'd up just as much as the MC.

>>159966309
Doesn't this happen all the time?

>>159966241
i agree, which is why i want to see such scenes. from my POV it wouldn't even be NTR, it would be a natural reaction to MC being a cuck and a wake-up call for artists to make their main characters less beta.

>>159966306
What was it?

>>159966314
one piece does it a lot, beyond that i haven't really seen it.

then again. my power level is fairly low.

>>159966306
Thousands of /a/nons are suffering from range-bans and forced to buy 4chan passes if they want to continue using /a/, just because they are sharing their IP range with somebody who is a shitposter.
This faggot isn't rangebanned.

I don't understand it.

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>highschool anime
>MC is the teacher

>>159966327
I know this happens in at least two manga
One of them was brocolihead, the other one was something to the effect of "childhood friend asked him out, he stuttered like a bitch, she thought that was a no and moved on two years later".

>>159966335
Just a repost.

>>159966314
Not really. Usually in most shounen manga at least the MC has explosive growth and no one is really able to keep up with him after a certain point besides the next arc villain.

>>159966348
What's this a reference to or is it just a generic nightmare thing?

>character gets punched
>dies instantly due to neurological damage

>>159966354
Brocolihead aside, the MC fucking deserved it.

>>159966362
>pointing it out
the break is having the MC get cucked/punished, instead of having his pure "angel" accept it and wait for him

>>159962644
>>its battle shonen
>>the MC is not the strongest member of the party
>then suddenly showed a hidden special power after 5 episodes
Everytime.

>>159966392
I noticed just as I had posted submit. I'm stupid.

>>159966354
>>159966376
Where's Brocolihead from?

>>159962644
>random stranger asks MC to help save his town from extremely dangerous bandits/mafia/etc
>MC refuses because he doesn't want to fucking die

>>159966339
does anyone have that picture form One piece where some generic background characters show up like 600 chapters later and they've become strong as hell.

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>>159962644
>it's a shonen military adventure show
>half the main cast gets brutally murdered in the first 30 seconds of the first battle

>MC talks about the Way of the Sword and his Ancestor's Techniques and his Honorable Path
>MC refuses to use magic and doen't learn normal techniques
>gets his shit pushed in by a fullcaster

>>159966348
GTO, I guess.

>>159965658
Sounds like Wanpanman if it was good.

>>159966460
Are there any other shows with that premise?

>>159966483
FMAB, Naruto, arguably Bleach...really any shonen show where characters are in some type of military-like organization.

>>159966425
Onani Master.

>>159966513
>Bleach
literally nobody dies in bleach, especially at the first battle.

>Highschool Setting Anime
>Mc is a dog

>>159963015
I need the source.

>>159966537
OP's post said "cliche breaking"...so going against the cliche. I was talking about how most of these kinds of shows often have the entire group surviving without a scratch until the end despite routinely going into absurdly dangerous situations.

>>159966513
He asked for the exact opposite thing.

>Characters make a promise to marry when they are young
>10 years later laugh it off sincerely as kid shenanigans.

>>159966727
>That post doesn't exist anymore.
Mods calm down holy shit

>>159966765
I like the 'promise to marry' cliche though, it's so sweet. Like, if it's not stupid shit like Nisekoi.

>>159966611
i think the anon you responded to was asking about more anime/manga with the cliche break

>>159966646
So when he wrote "cliche breaking", what he actually meant was "cliche following"?

>>159966483
Ga-Rei Zero, arguably.

>>159963156
>the MC's match against the bad guy scheduled for last of course.
>MC's team gets eliminated in the second round, before even facing big bad

>>159966765
>characters make promise to marry
>guy turns into a deranged neet and tries to kill the girl for getting another bf

>>159966798
Then why did he ask for shows that had the same premise, instead of other shows that went against the cliche?

>>159966800
No, you just got confused.

>>159966827
>it's a shonen military adventure show
>half the main cast gets brutally murdered in the first 30 seconds of the first battle

>Are there any other shows with that premise?

it's pretty obvious to me, maybe you just have autism and can't understand it

>>159966844
I think he's saying that once there were large scale battles in manga like Naruto, then lots of people did die. You just have to go through a lengthy manga with no one noteworthy dying just to get to that point.
Also, almost everybody who died in Naruto was a redshirt.

>>159966888
No, I think I just got mixed up with the other guy when it came to the word "premise". I thought he meant what the story was based on, how it starts out, which is what the word premise means. Turns out that he actually meant a cliche in the story, which is something entirely different.

So when he asked "any other shows with the same premise", he wasn't actually asking for other shows with the same premise. He was asking for other shows that go against the cliche. Naruto isn't one of those shows, although it does have the same premise.

>>159966886
I thought by premise he meant the shonen military part. The premise is the underlying foundation of the plot, not one lone event in the story.

>>159963816
>What is Hunter X Hunter

>>159966765
The third story of Zansho is like that

>>159965729
>harem
>best girl aka short brown hair left the harem
>blonde ends up being pregnant from her ex and will probably leave

>>159967169
w-what

>>159966888
No, he said cliche breaking would be having main characters die on the first battle. As in, some work where you get introduced to many relevant characters, they are all together and such, then blam, deado.
Then another guy asked if there's any anime/manga where main characters die in such fashion.

>>159967213
Read the raws

>>159965367
That won't happen because everyone (including you most likely) will complain it's unrealistic, the reason creators have to backtrack and make the heroes secret chosen ones is because the enemies keep getting stronger and the audience would no longer accept them winning through hard work

>>159963091
>>159963194

Happened in Medaka Box

>>159967318
My dude, winning by nothing but the sweat of your brow is one of the most realistic ways of acquiring victory.

>>159967375
Are you actually retarded? Hard work when you have literally no super powered bullshit or pure luck but all your enemies do is just straight up garbage storytelling. And then having everyone get by with hard work and nobody being super powered or lucky is even less realistic.

>>159967318
Uh? No. It's the most realistic.
It doesn't happen because most writers don't know how to make that exciting. The audience that wants "realistic battles" is probably just watching mma and boxing, or documentaries about those sportsmen, instead of anime.

>>159967467
>Super powers
>Realistic
Besides, was Washington superpowered? Was Ulysses Grant superpowered? Think before you speak autist.

>>159967375
It isn't. Winning by the sweat of your brow is realistic, winning by nothing BUT the sweat of your brow is not. To be excellent with nothing but the sweat of your brow is realistic, but to be the very best? Ali worked his fucking ass off, yes, but he also had inborn talent. Gauss worked his ass off, but he accomplished in ten years what other mathematicians failed to do in a lifetime. Phelps worked his ass off but his body structure was just born different.
You can win against someone who doesn't work hard with hard work, but you can't win against someone who works just as hard with hard work if they're more talented or have bullshit superpowers.

>>159967524
Washington wasn't superpowered and he got his shit steamrollered by the British until he shut the fuck up and actually fought retreating battles and guerilla tactics. But someone like Octavian or Cicero? Yes, they were the best of the best.

>>159967502
You can't run faster than someone who can teleport through hard work.

>>159967524
>Besides, was Washington superpowered?
No, which is why he was forced to retreat and carry out hit and run attacks against the British until the French and Spanish intervened on the American side.

>Ulysses Grant
He had an overwhelming advantage in terms of troops and supplies.

>>159967524
Luck is a super power in itself. What you are asking for is not what you actually mean so rephrase yourself. Are people who are born into money not lucky? Are people who are born with superhuman physiques not superpowered?

The great often have to work hard but they had a much easier way then someone else to begin with.

>>159967524
If someone is born with significantly better bone structure and he works at his chosen sport 20 hours a day, do you think you can beat him by working hard? Counterexamples have always been shit like "oh, the guy doesn't work as hard" - then you're not being realistic, because why wouldn't he work just as hard if he's aiming for the top of the world?

>Washington
Was carrying out delay tactics against a British commander generally regarded as incompetent, hoping that King George would either tire of this farce or that the French, Spanish, Germans, etc. would see a chance to change the geopolitical realities of British supremacy and intervene.

>Grant
Was a man who went into a gunfight with unlimited ammo and a GAU-8 against someone with limited ammunition and an AK-47, whose top brass specifically refused to order breechloaded rifles from Britain until it was too late and the Union bought all of the original stock already.

>>159967582
>You can't run faster than someone who can teleport through hard work.
Maybe you can also teleport and need to improve at it.
Maybe your show doesn't have bullshit super powers.
Are you so autistic you can't imagine a work where this would make sense?

>typical shounen MC defeats an evil emperor
>it turns out guts and idealism aren't enough to govern the country
>economy collapses
>revolution gets out of control
>fanatics exterminate everyone accused of supporting the old state
>various factions start surfacing
>internal strife breaks out
>external forces get involved, via either invasion or invitation
>in just a few years death toll of the revolution exceeds decades of emperor's rule by several orders of magnitude
>finally after long horrifying war that took countless lives, halved the size of the country and ruined the economy, a new government is formed
>it's a totalitarian state far worse than the previous ruler
>country becomes a backwards shithole everyone hates
>many years later days of the empire are remembered as the golden age of the country

>>159967728
It never does because in real life, the people who had innate talent are working at it just as hard as you unless you're limiting yourself to shit like a local high school. Do you think all the people at the Olympics got there with 'just' hard work? Hard work is a huge factor, and someone who doesn't work hard will always lose at levels of relevance, but the opposite is true too - if someone gets back twice the return on his training, you just need to train twice as long - except, he's training for 16 hours a day and there's only 24 in a day...

>>159967774
Lawful Evil best government, fuck CG retards.

>>159967467
The only realistic way to win is by cheating and bribing

you are a sub-human retard if you as much as think otherwise

>>159967807
How the fuck do you bribe your own brain to perform and spit out new theories that correctly predict the future

>>159967728
The point is that couldn't be on Earth or with humans because humans have bullshit super powers. Are you actually ignoring parts of the posts you don't like? If someone has lungs with twice the capacity of anyone else and then is the best swimmer in the world because of it, that's a super power but that's completely realistic.

>>159967823
you pay someone to do it for you
then take the credit

>>159967849
Hardly possible, since you need to go and defend your theories against people who ask. At that point you may as well go into politics and become President of whereever.

>>159967023
O

>>159967871
>Hardly possible, since you need to go and defend your theories against people who ask.
No, you don't.
Powerful people can buy doctor titles. It's not uncommon.

>>159967875
MY

>>159967901
Doctorate titles count for shit-all if you don't have the papers and research skills to back it up, you know this right? Do you think a Ph.D. actually means anything? Fucking everyone in research is a Ph.D. or a Masters working on it, who the fuck cares if you have something everyone else has?

>>159967936
RUBBER

>>159967960
>Doctorate titles count for shit-all
You are assuming that the person in question is even trying to work as a scientist. A doctor title is a great benefit when you apply for other jobs as well, most commonly administration.

>>159968004
But you see, that's not 'victory' in the sense that's being described, and prizes, honors, and achievements that get awarded this way too much lose all value. Who still cares about the Nobel Peace Prize, for example?

>>159966460
>it's a shonen military adventure show
>it turns into your generic shonenshit and important people stop dying 6 episodes in

>>159967997
NEN

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>MC turns out to be the bad guy
>villain turns out to be the less bad guy
>villain becomes MC
>last part follows the ex-villain MC defeating the ex-MC villain

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>MC saves the main girl's life
>she DOESN'T fall in love with him

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>>159962644
>Europe is not Japanese

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>Normal cops and soldiers can do something despite the fact that magic/'toy of the series' exists

>>159967776
Innate talent is an unquantifiable meme. Had every single human undergone the same life, and the only defining factors of them being better be their genetic predispotiion, you would have a point, but that is not how the world works, everyone does things differently and obtains different results. And then we are never sure about the defining factors for the results, because there's way too many variables.
Let's say Phelps had an identical twin brother who also swam, but they trained separately. Would the victory distribution be 50-50?
We already know that Phelps loses sometimes, do the ones that beat him also have some genetic marvel going on for them?

>>159967830
You have me confused with a different poster, I'm only adressing the parts that belong to my conversation.

>>159968232
>unquantifiable
It's difficult to quantify but certainly not a meme.

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>>159962644
>usual battle shonen setting
>MC has to live in one room with beautiful tsundere red headed girl because of coincidences
>they confess, kiss and get engaged over the course of only 30 chapters

The magic of adding an ecchi tag

>>159968185
They really shouldn't be able to against high magic though. Against pissants who can barely fire off Magic Missile maybe.

>>159965585
>MC is OP without justifying
>better than justified OP
I kind of agree that if the justification does not play any other role in the series it is better not to justify. But still, a bad example, or you are just full baka.

>>159968351
Why wouldn't the fucking army not have access to mages?

>>159968496
>normal cops and soldiers
I'm reading that as like, police batons. There's obviously no reason the Imperial Army doesn't have a squad especially for Flying Invisible Fireball.

>>159968282
Well, people refer to talent when speaking of 5 different things, so it's generally a shit word.
1) Body "anormalities" (physical or chemical)
2) Neural pathways developed well for a certain task without intentional training
3) Actually trained skill but the speaker is unaware of it
4) Using a superior learning technique
5) Using a superior execution technique

>>159966348
Aku no Kyouten is about a teacher who is an absolute psychopath.

>>159968351
High magic? Bigger fireball or abstraction?
Star Wars is the perfect example, with Jedi and Sith being the mages, powerful or not they can be brought down by armies.

>>159968185
the bokurano manga does this a couple times

>trap character appears
>other characters show visible disgust, call him "faggot" and "freak"

>>159968826
High Magic as in Power Word Kill, no save, I speak a single word and you die.

>>159966140
That's the point of being a teenager/young adult - you learn to own up to your fears and take the initiative. The alternative is you get left behind.

>>159969052
Sure, but a bullet to the brain should kill the mage. It just happens that the mage is probably leading the armies.

>>159969077
Mage Armor is an all-day buff, and any fullcaster worth shit has Greater Mirror Image and Blur on as well for an automatic 90% miss chance before you deal with actual defensive buffs like Deflection, Mage Armor, and Shield.

>>159968103
I think this did happen somewhere. But I can't put a finger on it, help me out with this.

>>159967774
this is what is going to happen to Konoha with a retard like Naruto ruling over it

>American girl shows up
>Has brown/black hair and modestly sized breasts

>Tsundere acts like a huge bitch
>MC just drops her and starts pursuing another girl
>They never get back together

>>159969117
>implying I wasn't just saying what I wish would happen

If you know something where it happens, I want to know as well.

>every plan is not "if it's even one in a million chance, I'll take the take the shot"-keikaku
>enemy is actually considered intelligent and that they may foresee some of the intended plans
>not Desu Note bullshit that relies on the idea that they know exactly what plans the other would come up with in that situation
>the plan is actually robust and there is a backup-plan prepared

>>159967774
>Evil emperor's last words are: you fool, do you have any idea what you're doing? All I did was for the good of this country, you're going to throw that all away???
>MC does his normal friends / guts thing
>friends abandon him, guts doesn't work, MC doesn't know what the banks mean when they say they're suffering a "run" and need a "lender of last resort"

>>159969197
>plan is a one in a million chance
>it's the other 999 999 in a million this time

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>Fantasy world with a ton of warriors and magic
>MC shoots them

>>159969245
Protection from Bullets.

>>159969197
>Plan is devised
>It's actually discussed in an interesting group meeting, budgeted, scheduled. Then payments are done, logistics, monitoring.

>>159969116
>mages should be immune
Mages are not meant to be invulnerable, they are meant to be arrogant and powerful. Their downside is their fragility, in ego and in body - or in their humanity.

>>159969329
>mages should be immune
I'm not saying they should be, I'm saying they can be, due to wielding 'haha fuck you it's magic'. A level 1 caster still has access to Mage Armor and Grease (which would win a battle against 100 people if his side has 60). Casters win wars, even if they'd lose in a straight fight.

>>159969245
>Entire anime is the re-creation of that scene over and over again
>As the MC's reputation grows more and more powerful opponents challenge him
>Everyone dies to one bullet always
I'd watch it.

>>159969381
>watching an OPM that's unironic
Come on m8

>>159969381
>One Shot Man

>>159969368
I guess my problem could be articulated better.
Mages should not be demigods, they should be artillery, generals and war heroes. It's lame if every mook will kill them, it is interesting if every mook can.
The Japanese story structure heavily favors unbeatable hero vs. unbeatable villain while armies of useless observers clash against one another.

In no Japanese story is it even hinted at being a possibility for a powerful character to fall even to an army. It's the myth of the Kung-Fu master. Only another one can defeat them.
Same thing with mechas - a big enough explosive should kill them. Alas, their status as 'mecha' renders their metal invulnerable.

I hate it. It's lazy and it can't develop.

>>159965962
Hitler in the anime "real life"?

>>159969464
>The Japanese story structure
Wrong. You need to read more, this is both the Wuxia structure and the heroic epic structure. At no point in time is Beowulf, Siegfried, Karna, or Sun Wukong in danger from angry rabble or nameless mooks. Beowulf is threatened to an extent by Grendel and by the Dragon which he DKOs. Siegfried is threatened by Fafnir, then by betrayal. Karna is threatened by fate itself. Sun Wukong is threatened only by the Buddha, certain very powerful enemies, and his own guilt.
You're complaining about the wrong things in the wrong genre. "Mages" are and have always been defeatable by normal soldiers, because that's what they are - artillery and support soldiers who show off best when they're used to disable groups of enemies for the swordsmen to finish off. But an Archmage? Archmagi aren't defeatable by anything but other Archmagi or a Champion, that's the entire point. Archmages are the equal of dragons and lesser gods, and dragons were originally introduced as a story element specifically as the unbeatable foe that normal men could only cower before. Stop trying to bring your ""realism"" fetish into everything when people like you never understand that in many stories, realism isn't the point.

>>159965070
Or in Law of Uekis case the power to turn trash into trees level 2 is the most broken fucking thing ever

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>>159968128
Some may beg to differ.

>>159970219
The shitstorm that day was glorious

>>159970259
/a/ loves cucking, so no wonder

although the funny thing was, elevens reacted the same way

>A cute girl has social anxiety and trouble making friends in her new class
>A boy has become a NEET and refuses to leave his room or go to school
>A tsundere has violent tendencies towards her childhood friend and is being sued by his family for assault
>A kuudere/autist has problems expressing/recognizing emotions and subtext properly

A psychiatrist/therapist actually helps them work through their problems instead of shrugging and going "shikata ga nai" like the rest of fucking Japan seems to do

>>159962644
It's more dream anime then cliche breaking but fuck it.
"Company of girls, gyus, in isekai but they OP as fuck and humiliating all fantasy world in funny ways."

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>>159970520
What does this post mean?

>>159965556

IF MC isn't 'special' then the story can't focus on larger lore/world because average joe-kun simply isn't in the room when things are happening, they are not invited to the happenings. If they are, then they are sidelined whilst other characters do the work. This might be great to read about but if you've spent 300 chapters with MC-kun then swap to the OP side character readers might be a bit annoyed.

Even in stories with MC being average joe, their luck is off the charts. Even in non magical settings a 'special' MC often ends up being some sort of prodigy in a field or nepotism allows them to be central to the happenings, thus not really 'average joe'.

>>159970681
That's just how isekaifags usually sound like.

>>159970681
i'm just bored, don't worry.

>>159963502
Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

>>159970864
Speaking of nepotism
>MC's sister is some super-important person
>MC is therefore allowed to participate in high-level meetings and stuff
>MC has nothing interesting or useful to say or contribute and walks out humiliated because they're clueless

>>159968053

I hate this. Worse is when entire fleets/battalions die in the beginning, you then have the token mentor/friend/named/family characters with minimal characterization die to spur on MC, then for the next 70% of the series no named characters on MCs side dies, then at the end they finally start to die again after they've just spend most of the series with plot armour. Just fucking kill the character if they goof and get into a bad spot.

>>159971056
>Cliche breaking
So yeah?

>>159965765
top kek

>>159969945

'Mage', 'Archmage' what's with your weird descriptions? Mage is a sniper/commando who is above average joe but not invincible? And archmage is 'a wizard did it' tier, coming up with endless countermeasures?

Why bother with this distinction? They're both mages. Depending on series, culture, game rules etc magical capabilities range from doing everything to just pure offensive elemental combat (the artillery example).

>A battle royale with lots of interesting characters
>They all talk their problems out.

>>159967327
I don't remeber Medaka ever apologizing for that.

>>159971554
>Mage is a sniper/commando who is above average joe but not invincible?
Mage is somebody who utilized magic, and has substandard fitness.
Archmage is somebody experienced enough to run important protective spells at all times, who divines dangers to himself ahead of time and makes sure to step out of the way or cast situation-appropriate defensive spells, whichever he prefers.

>Why bother with this distinction?
Because that's how they appear in both western novels, western games and western TV series and in eastern novels, games and TV series.
There is an exception to this trend, and it's balanced multiplayer games. But these really don't change the culture that surrounds these characters.

>>159971583
Only works with guys, doubt it will work with girls.

>>159971583
>>They all talk their problems out.
Why would they do that if they have to kill each other afterwards?

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>>159962644
Isn't this true for Gash Bell?

Kanchome is the strongest member of the main group, each of his clones are faster and stronger than a buffed up Gash.
Riddles with his OP Answer Talker
Brago remains top tier throughout the entirety of the story.
Zeno is easily stronger than Gash even after he makes his heel turn.
Wonrei is atleast equal.

Gash only gets by on Bao and is only able to defeat Clear Note because he can use everyone elses spells.

>>159969403
>>watching an OPM that's unironic
So watching OPM then

>>159969381
>friend survived a bullet wearing a tracksuit
/k/ daydreamers at it again

>>159962644
World Trigger.
It hurts how underappreciated it is.

>MC has no special powers whatsoever
>everyone is relevant
>most powerful characters aren't even in MC's party
>experience trumps raw power
>all is fair in war
>shit happens and it cannot always be helped

And I also love the OPs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIT3HdkBK1k

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>>159965644

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>>159969163

>>159964065
I read book with that story. It was fantasy genre. Can't remember details except that MC and Mentor were in some hotel where every little thing like opening the doors or preparing bed required them to pay money. There also was also Castle under siege.

Read it literally years ago but im so sure this book exist!

>>159964402

There was a mecha show about that. Can't bother to remember the title but it was pretty bad.

"I want the MC to win through hard work"
This is more unrealistic than bloodline chosen one bullshit, though.
In real life, people don't become the best just by working hard. They have to be gifted in the first place.
A story about an average guy becoming slightly above average by working hard would be fucking boring.

>>159973148
>They have to be gifted in the first place.
More importantly, they need to know the right people.

>>159966460

Muv-Luv Anime.

>>159973148
Stories like that usually give the MC some kind of cheat, like super special training or batman level keikaku or some op magic that he picks up along the way.

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>>159973168
>>159973148
Sounds like slacker-talk to me. Why didn't you just a little bit harder, anon-kun?

>>159965962
real life

>>159973148
Good thing this isn't real life then, is it?

>>159973245
I'm living quite comfortably on autismbux. What's the point?

>>159973245
>slacker-talk
Once you get to a truly high level, hard work ceases to become relevant and you'll always be inferior to people who are naturally gifted. This is normal.

>>159973472
Incorrect except for some very specific scenarios.

>>159973583
It's correct though, because at those levels the gifted people are also working as hard if not harder than you.

>>159973583
Take a look at any academic discipline that isn't a fucking joke and you'll notice I'm right.

>>159973583
Gauss alone is worth a score of lesser mathematicians who worked their asses off. The faggot published so many papers, any one of which could've been a crowning achievement to lesser men. And you know what? Both of them worked hard. Hell, even those who don't work "hard" often show better results than those who do. In higher academic disciplines, hard work is inferior to actually having the raw talent to walk the path.

>>159973775
I think you may want to rework that post.

>>159965556
The MC is supposed to be likable, not special. No one gives a shit about a special MC if they don't like him. That's usually why people give MCs special powers, except for the fact that they're unable to see the forest for the trees.

>>159973854
>no argument
Just admit he's right. Natural talent trumps hard work. And when it doesn't, the talented person just has to work just as hard as the less talented person.

>>159973923
I'm not saying he's wrong. I agree with the sentiment. I just think the post is a mess.

>battle manga
>climactic battle with MC vs villain
>MC manages to barely defeat the villain but suffers heavy injuries
>it takes years for him to be able to fight again and even then he never fully recovers

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>MC accidentally walks in on girl bathing
>girl asks MC to wash her back

>>159971554
A mage is any old magic user. He can probably fly, turn invisible for a bit, create illusions, and toss fireballs. He might be able to blind a few people. He almost certainly loses in a straight fight without magic.
An archmage is someone who has reached the top of using magic. An archmage has his own personal worldplane, he knows the possible futures ahead of time, and he has twenty defensive spells stacked on top of himself. He doesn't fight directly, but summons the Balrog to do it for him, and spends his time fucking succubi while his Simulacrums continue researching magic. He knows when he's being watched, and can watch dangers as they develop from the safety of his own world.
It's the difference between the kid who learned some karate and the guy who beats bears to death with one hand behind his back.

>>159974355
Name something conventionally more powerful than an archmage

>>159974383
An angry DM.

>>159974383
God before the Archmage starts chainbinding, possibly.
Pun-Pun.
The DM.
The 3.5e Fighter whose player is the DM's girlfriend and sucks him off during session.

>>159974383
The MC with plot armor aka the DMPC.

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>>159963502

Technically these two fit the bill.

>guy walks in on girl nude in bathroom
>first time they meet
>she doesn't mind at all and she introduces herself

>>159974580
>girl walks in on guy in the bathroom
>he screams like a little girl

>>159974530
>He killed our high level characters on all the campaing he was running.
kek

>>159974688
There's an idea for a retarded light-novel.
>witch walks in on guy in the bathroom
>he annoys her by screaming like a little girl
>she turns him into a little girl
The rest of the plot is low-magic and the witch is never mentioned again.

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>>159963156
something's off

>>159965658
>mc shows up for the batte
>the antagonists monologue convinces him to switch sides

>>159974798
>the rest of the story is about industrializing the nation with potatoes

>>159973666
>>159973712
>>159973775
Incorrect, neural connections are modifiable during life, you just misunderstand what working hard actually means, or the timeframe you have for it.
Read about how brains work, maybe read that one Outliers book too while at it.

>>159974872
What does working hard mean, then?
>neural connections are modifiable
Not to such an extent that you could increase your IQ by any significant amount.

>>159963378
>Everybody in world house demon/god in soul
>MC doesn't

>MC is stubborn and want to fight with a opponent stronger than him
>Get fucked and die.
God I really hate it when MC is so reckless and fight against a powerful enemy without a proper plan because muh friend, muh angry but somehow there will always be an asspull to keep him alive or even win.

>>159974915
>What does working hard mean, then?
It's a combination of activities to both increase the pathways you need for the required activity, memorization, repetition, proper assesment of how to compensate your shortcomings, yadda yadda.
You could read and be able to apply and recalle entire textbooks of math and still not be able to create any original work, because knowing math is really nothing like figuring out how to show proof of something. There's an entire different kind of "brain conditioning" you need to do for that. But as you know brain plasticity slows as you age, so the main chunk of the work needs to be done while you're young, probably at the discretion of a parent.
>Not to such an extent that you could increase your IQ by any significant amount.
IQ tests are garbage for measuring intellect. I score high and my only saving grace is logic. Logic only gets you so far. I'm a good programmer but shit mathematician.

>1vs1
>fair fight
>4vs1
>really really unfair fight

Why is that when enemy strength is 1 and they fight in for example in 4. Their strength is still 1 instead of 4?

>>159975168
>because knowing math is really nothing like figuring out how to show proof of something
Lmao what? There's nothing else TO math though, literally all of higher mathematics is proofs.

>>159975191
Because that's how it would work. Imagine if you would, that an enemy A has 20 HP, and 10 Attack, and 5 Defense. Now, imagine we have four of these enemies against an enemy B, who has 80 HP, 40 Attack, and 20 Defense.
A can't even scratch B. B one-shots A.

>>159975168
The way I work is usually
>read the relevant part of the book on theory
>apply it using an example, try to understand the example
>do an exercise, if I can't, look up the solution and understand it
>move on and repeat
Isn't that what you're supposed to do?
I've never been good at learning because I never had to work before high school, so I don't know how to properly structure my schedule in order to efficiently learn things.

>>159975168
>IQ tests are garbage for measuring intellect.
Then why is there such a precise and observable correlation between academic qualifications and IQ?

>>159975348
It depends on what you're trying to learn to do. Proofs have the problem of being, well, usually you're the one making up the theory. They're annoying because once you know the theory it's trivial, but the theory is so simple you can't look it up without just copying it. For example, "prove that e is irrational".

>>159975383
IQ measures a child's development.
Education happens to you while you are growing up.
See how there might be a correlation?

>>159975257
I meant scenario like
MC has 10 HP 10 Attack 10 Defense
Enemy A, B, C, D have 10 HP 10 Attack 10 Defense

In past MC fought with every enemy and almost lost but now when he is fighting 4 at once they're weaker, while MC haven't got any stronger

>>159975489
>MC haven't got any stronger
You sure about that?

>>159975489
MC now has 40 HP, 30 Attack and 30 Defense.

>>159975522
>>159975535
That's what I mean, it's always like that

>>159975568
>That's what I mean,
No, you just said he didn't get stronger.

>>159975568
Because it's meant to show how much the MC has progressed. A level 1 has trouble with a goblin. A level 6 can kill two or three with one swing or disable an entire camp's worth with one spell.

>>159975208
Do you understand the difference betwwen knowing things and being able to "invent them" on your own?

>>159975348
That's fine for exercises but proofs are different. You need to be able to figure out the correct way to attack the problem, as well as the proper things that may be relevant to remember and use for it.
Figuring out how to attack the problem is generally not that hard for classes, because the knowledge you're supposed to know and use is constrained.
Many great mathematicians failed to prove things until one guy came around with a good idea, and then it was trivial and they all thought they were idiots. Now how did the guy have the idea? He had the right neural pathway built that allowed him to link all the components. Now, did he have those since he was born or did he gain them as he grew? If so, what activities and thoughts did he have during his life to accomplish that growth? It's a complex matter.

>>159975383
Because logic is essential. It's the baseline. If you have low IQ you are an idiot, but having high IQ doesn't mean you accomplish what you want.

>>159975667
>Do you understand the difference betwwen knowing things and being able to "invent them" on your own?
I understand that there is no such thing as mathematics without proofs, I bet you think calculating angles or rotation matrices is "math" lmao

>>159975695
Math is proofs, everything else is secondary.
The problem here is that you can't read.

>>159975782
>"because knowing math is really nothing like figuring out how to show proof of something"
>"knowing math"
>but can't prove something
>when math is nothing but proofs
You can't 'know math' without knowing how to prove things and how to derive those proofs on your own m8.

>>159963979
Shirobako.

The show even starts out by showing them as teenagers saying what they want to do and then cutting to the main girl sat in her car, aged 21, with a dead, tired look in her eyes because work.

>party is fighting a serious enemy but it's not taking it seriously and making quips and whatever
>someone fucking dies
Does this happens in anything?
People acting cocky in combat against a serious threat and nothing happening to them makes me mad as fuck

>>159975818
Are you really this dense?
Let's assume you know math. All math as it was by 1990.
It is the year 1990 and you want to prove the poncaire conjecture.
You are not Gregori Perelman and are failing at it.
Do you not know math?

>>159975936
>Do you not know math?
You are a textbook, you do not "know math".

>>159965272
>what is recreators

>>159975890
I think it happens sometimes, but that's generally when they actually severely underestimate the enmy. Most of the time they're cocky shits because the enemy is legitimately a shitter.

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3KB, 115x42px

>>159963091
wtf learn to crop

>>159974688
Pretty sure it was somewhere recently

>>159975437
>IQ measures a child's development.
But that's not true

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>>159976007

>>159975988
Truly a vanguard in the industry.

>>159965729
Am I supposed to like any of these characters? Short brown hair is a yes-man. Blond has nice tits but is a cunt. And MC is wishy washy and as annoying as any beta male MC. Can't stand seaweed hair and this situation is contrived beyond enjoyment.

14 chapters in and I'm dropping this nonsense. Fuck I was expecting something on the level of Otoyomegatari's lesbian arc but fuck this shit.

>>159962644
Pretty much what happened in Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer. Even with Air Control Babylon the MC got wrecked by the rival after the last battle.

>>159975969
Then by that logic no one truly "knows math" unless they solve 100% of it.

>>159965962
Ride's wild ride of revenge ft chuuni lover when?

>character drinks beer normally instead of going BWWAAAHH afterwards

Does this ever happen?

>the police and military aren't completely useless against the enemy and are able to hold their own just as well as the teenage protagonists with their deus ex machina

>>159976980
Sometimes they go PUYHEEEEE instead.