Bullshit.

>>159512292
I don't watch Dragonball Super, but I imagine those are shit subs. He probably actually said he doesn't feel like a hero/savior.

>>159512292
>I've never been aware of saving it

>guys we have to stop King Piccolo
>guys we have to stop Raditz
>guys we have to stop Vegeta and Nappa
>guys we have to stop Freiza
>guys we have to stop the Androids
>guys we have to stop Cell

What a load of shit.

>>159512292
Ehh i think it was something like what >>159512336 said but yea Goku, at least from the perspective that Toriyama wanted to give us was never meant to be heroic by any means, just kind-hearted, naive, retard with some other anime archetypes mixed in.

>>159512336
Nah super goku is a moron and a psychopath.

>>159512425
Proof? I know a lot of people cite an interview but I call bullshit

Why is Goku so poorly written in Super?

Or is it just that the Japanese Goku is a blithering idiot psychopath fighting autist, and the English version is like a fabled heroic warrior.

>>159512424
>Revenge for krillin

>Save my kid

>Save my friends

>save my friends/revenge krillin

>Literally didn't do the easy thing and destroy the androids before they activated because he gets wanted a fight

>we could gang up on cell and probably beat him as father and son but nah,tournaments are fun

>>159512435
>>159512454
>>159512508
It's not like it's anything new. Remember how he wanted Vegeta to survive, tried to spare Freeza, waited for the Androids to activate, and gave a Senzu Bean to Cell.

>tfw you used to like Goku

>>159512508
Toriyama has Alzheimers-tier memory and only remembers Goku as a flanderized version of Kid Goku(clueless kid who only wants to fight strong people). He remembers nothing of Goku's development over the course of the series.

Toei doesn't want another GT disaster so they take his word as law.

>>159512508
The English version of Goku is definitely more heroic but the Japanese version still has his moments of heroism that make the "Goku was never a hero!" fags wrong.

Like when he confronted Frieza and said he was going to defeat him for the sake of all the nameks and saiyans he had killed. No "wow you look strong let's fight!" bullshit there. Or after that army attacked Cell and he wiped them out and Goku went out of his way to look for a way to make the dragon balls work again so they could wish all of Cell's victims back. Goku has definitely had his moments where he's just plain heroic. I think Toriyama just didn't like the dub version and completely shit on his character and regressed him to his most basic "likes to eat, likes to fight" qualities.

>>159512508
The latter. All the heroic stuff he ever said was dub only.

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>>159512586
>GT disaster

But GT was good. Much better than Super could ever be.

>>159512640
>>159512637
Another case of Nips being fucking terrible writers.

>>159512637
>I think Toriyama just didn't like the dub version
What makes you think Toriyama knows anything about the dub version?

>>159512646
Fuck off Pedro, how is it not obvious that your kind is not welcome here?

Didn't Toriyama say in an interview that Goku is motivated selfishly?

>>159512336
>>159512425
Super really overdid the whole "goku just wants to fight people" meme.
Toriyama said that he was supposed to be kinda saiyan in his wanting to just fight strong people etc. but super just took that concept and turned him into a huge cunt, at least that's what I believe.

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>>159512699
Not a pedro. I just have good taste. The first half of GT captured the thematic essences of the original series whilst the latter, Z.
It was the perfect sendoff to the series, and despite all of its failure, will eventually be seen as much better than Super. Because Super is some of the worst anime I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing in my life.

>>159512549

My impression with Cell Games was that Goku was okay having a little fun with Cell because he knew Gohan was capable of overkilling him.

Even if it's his base nature to be a sleep/eat/fight ape man, Goku hasn't been that since Pilaf. At least since Bora died in Red Ribbon and Goku went in to RR HQ wanting to destroy everyone.

>>159512553
>tried to spare Freeza
It's completely different than the rest. He didn't spare (or actually save) Frieza t fight him again. It was an act of mercy.

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>>159512768
>The first half of GT captured the thematic essences of the original series

It was a shitty attempt at trying to be the original series. It had none of Toriyama's surreal humor, didn't have his style of writing characters, and had a dull plot.

>>159512699
GT was great you fucking braindead moron.

>>159512768
>>159512699
Look I hate super as much as the next guy, and i think GT was better than super in general.
but holy shit, it really wasn't good anon.

>>159512844
It certainly wasn't 'good', but it wasn't the steaming pile of shit that Super is.

>>159512637

Toriyama said he didn't like how goku was portrayed as heroic in the anime.

If GT was better why did they have to cancel it and rush early the final sagas?

>>159512553
>vegeta to survive
yeah it was an act of mercy
>spared frieza
again, out of mercy
>waited for the androids to activate
well what the hell else could he have done? 19 and 20 he didn't know the whereabouts of, and his heart was BTFO'd while they were dealing with 17 and 18
>gave a Senzu Bean to Cell
admittedly this was completely fucking retarded, but I suppose it was more than anything him placing his confidence in his son
it was still retarded though

>>159512805
>>haha gohan can handle it,let me give cell a senzu bean to make it more challenging

>>Doesn't handle it,Cell juniors wrecking everyone,worldbalmost over if the autistic robot hadn't by chance knocked some sense into gohan

I like the cell saga but gokus character corrosion was well into it,it started with him letting piccolo walk away so he can fight him later after the budokai and just got progressively worse up to Buu,Super goku takes that rot but unlike Z doesn't put goku I'm hospital/dead/comatose so its far more noticable ,plus super writers seem to forget that goku had greater motivation prior to the vegeta fight besides wanting to fight strong guys/vengeance fighting

>>159512913

GT killed dragon ball for so many years, its funny that some real or fake pedros want to believe its somehow better in any way than super.

>>159513038
>people actually like Super

It basically has nothing at all to do with Dragonball. It's just a shitty anime with the Dragonball skin.

>>159513009
>phoneposting
>worthless opinion
sasuga

>>159513071
The difference between OG and Z was much bigger

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>>159512988
>Mercy

Dubtards are deluded

>>159513038
>GT killed Dragon Ball
More like Toriyama sat on his ass for decades and now he needs more money for a brain transplant.
Good job on getting on the Dragon Ball train in the past decade like the underage fag you are.

>>159512292
I'll claim bullshit on a lot but Goku is indeed a meathead who likes fighting and that's about it.

>>159513212
>a character is tweaked to make him more sympathetic and likeable
>people think that it was a bad change

>>159512292
Nothing new here, Goku has always been an egoistical faggot that only cared about good fights or saving friends, it's more like you guys thought he was heroic because of shitty dubs.

>>159513339
>shitty dubs
Superior dubs. When a work is translated, it should conform to the expected standards of the culture that it is being translated to. The West values heroism over retarded fighting autism.

>>159513339
He has a point though. The "I've never been aware of saving the world" line is complete bullshit

>>159513009
No, you idiot. Goku fuck-up was thinking that Gohan was a battle junkie muh saiyan pride. That's why he gave Cell the senzu. Because he thought that Gohan would want to fight him at full power for muh battle junkie thrills. That's why he's so shocked when Piccolo tells him that Gohan is not a fighter like him and realized his mistake in not telling Gohan about his latent power as well.

>>159513294
>thinking completely rewriting the main fucking character is somehow alright
Holy shit, how retarded are you dubtards?

>>159513294
It is given the fact that so many people assume those tweaks were apart of his character. The dub made goku into a Japanese siperman when that wasn't what he was intended to be. Now everyone has this misconception of who goku is

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>>159513387
>When a work is translated, it should conform to the expected standards of the culture that it is being translated to.
Is this what Amerfats think? That media should be censored to fit their small-minded cultural beliefs?
Do you get triggered when a movie doesn't have enough explosions?

>>159512292
The whole point of him asking not to be wished back after Cell was that he realised that he draw threats to the Earth

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>I am a proud warrior, dedicated to serving my home planet and my friends -- I am the Saiyan warrior Son Goku, and I'm furious at you, FREIIIIZZAAAAA!!!

>WAKU WAKU XD

>>159513501
I'm not even American. Dragonball was expected to be a cultural phenomenon and exceed in the Western world - it only makes sense for certain attributes to be tweaked and for changes to take place so that it can 'fit in'.

>>159513573
My bad, you're actually retarded.

>>159513592
>cartoons and film series come to China and Japan
>they literally ask for American studios to make alterations and considerable changes so that it fits in with the Asian audiences

>The West does the same thing
>"lol retarded"

>>159513410
>>159513437
I preferred the dub goku with a sense of doing something for the good of people around him, compared to "muh fighting" he's a superior MC.
Besides we already have fighting autist vegeta, goku as well is just too much.
I don't really mind if the story asks for it, but I find it pretty hard to like DBS given that the main character is a huge prick.
>>159513501
"Jelly doughnuts"
>>159513339
The fact that the dub sould actually change the narrative to fit that portrayal shows that he was nowhere near as extreme as super's Goku, I just don't see how they're possibly going to make it look like goku condemned 7 universes to destruction out of heroism.

>>159512508
Americans have a completely different and "adapted" version of Goku and Krillin.

Goku is never supposed to be an hardcore serious badass except for brief moments like when he goes to Namek, the rest of the time he's just a kind hearted dork/bumpkin doing stuff because he likes to fight, the american dub gave him a deep voice and a strong heroic character attitude he doesn't have in the original.

Krilin is apologetic and kind of a comedic relief character, while in japan he was the rival as a kid, the best friend during the teen phase and then became kind of Gohan's guardian angel from Namek onwards along with Piccolo.

I feel like Americans made Goku way more serious and Krillin a lot more stupid.

>>159513763
>he's a superior MC
Superior or not, the character you knew about through the dub is not Goku, it's a creation of the dub to fit the stereotype of "heroes" you know about, nothing else.

>>159513859
Krillin's English voice sounds way less retarded than his Japanese voice

>>159513864
>this character is made up, he's not the actual made up character that was made up in the first place
so what you're saying is the dub is pretty much like a doujin? great, it's better than the source material and i'm ok with that.

>>159513681
Both are equally retarded though.

>>159513859
there's only so much you can change with voices alone.
if you watch DB or DBZ without any audio whatsoever, you get a similar feeling to the dub portrayal, and all of the stuff you're watching is source material.

>>159514067
You're retarded

>>159514077
I noticed this when watching Super.
I turned the audio off and imagine Goku, etc, speaking in their English voices and suddenly the show felt more sincere.

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>>159513212
>>Mercy
Reread the manga

>>159512768
>The first half of GT captured the thematic essences of the original series whilst the latter
They sure captured it, now only to ffind out were they kept it hidden so we can give some to Super.

>>159514114
>the english dub modified many of the characters' personality
>had terrible voice acting
>switched the OST with some technoshit
>censored a lot
>the show feels more sincere
Are you really this retarded.

>>159514199
I bet you're one of those people who complain about 4Kids, and the fact that One Piece's 4kids opening was the best out of all of them.

>>159513859
This only confirms that the English version was the best version.

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>>159514132
Never said gokus incapable of mercy,just that his reason to spare Vegeta was because he wanted to fight him again,unlike Frieza or raditz for example whom he wanted to redeem or at least let them go as long as they never bothered him again

>dubfags in full denial because they discovered goku is not the pure hearted hero they thought
Heh.

>>159514199
I bet you say Genki Dama instead of Spirit Bomb, weeaboo.

>>159514744
Not that guy, but I actually do.

>>159514744
I never used Spirit Bomb because I'm not an amerifat to begin with.

>>159513989
Goku is a generic Superman in the dub. He's goddamn boring. The DBZ Kai dub Goku is far better. You'd realise that if you didn't have shit taste

Krillin was always the most witty fighter in Dragonball.

He had always a battleplan and some fallback ideas when fighting stronger guys like Goku, Piccolo, Nappa, Vegeta, Frezza.

Basically the punching over it's own weight guy.

>>159512699
>Muh pedro
This is the only response you ever get from these faggots

>>159514199
This is bait

>>159515279
How so?

>>159513071

>no mention of super being good
>people actually like super
>brain aneurysm

wake the fuck up, they are both trash but GT is just dbz again but worse and more goku, at least super is extending the universe a little even if most of it is diarrhea. Pedros saying they like GT more than super is like saying I prefer my shit to be green instead of orange.

>>159514287
Goku still is pure hearted though.

Which is honestly strange in some circumstances like when he lets his bloodlust get the better of him back in DB, and runs off after Tambourine to avenge Krillin's death. He's out for blood and quickly murders the poor sap on their second fight, but it's not like this causes him to lose his Kinto Un or anything.

Goku certainly got a free pass back then because he was a kid and not just because it was a nasty villain; nowadays he definitely wouldn't have that much leeway to just down a villain like that.

>>159515583
>Goku still is pure hearted though
Of course he is, I didn't mean that in that way, he is just very naive and completely unaware of his surroundings, which makes him pure hearted, in a sense.

>>159512292
At least this explains why he keeps making friends with mass murderers.

>>159514287
Wasn't being "pure hearted" the whole premise behind being able to ride the flying nimbus?

>>159517212
>>159515743

>>159512292
Why everyone forget the next scene? When Goku says he likes to fight strong guys but he can't stand seeing other people and animals suffering and he guess it might be for his grandpa. Goku saying he never wanted to be a hero sounds more like modesty

>>159517638
It seems hard for people to consider that Goku can both want to fight strong guys AND save people along the way.

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>>159512292
this is why Gohan should've taken over as MC after Cell Saga, Toriyama just made him shit on purpose in the Buu Saga because gooks like Goku more.

>>159512292
>17 looks at him in disbelief
I can't believe people defend this

>>159512988
Bulma wanted to wish to find the location of geros lab. And vegeta and goku chimped out

>>159517820
>It seems hard for people to consider that Goku can both want to fight strong guys AND save people along the way.
This.

The English dub did "exaggerate" the heroic part of Goku, but it is still in the original Japanese version of DBZ as well.

>>159512292
They're really trying to push the whole "GOKU IS A FUCKING MORON WHO DOESN'T REALIZE HIS LUST FOR FIGHTING IS GETTING PEOPLE KILLED"

>>159512508
Toriyama hates how goku was understood by fans, so he retconed his character.

>>159512553
>gave a Senzu Bean to Cell.
I remember that momebt wgen I was around 11 and even then I said it was retarted beyond imagination.

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>people unironically saying Goku isn't a hero and only cares about fighting

This meme fucking died when he let Gohan fight Cell, it's clear he was prioritizing the safety of the Earth over his fighting lust right there and then

>>159528229
Sure, giving cell a senzu bean was for the safety of earth as well, right?

>>159528659
Technically yes, because he thought it would awaken Gohan and make him the strongest fighter in the universe

>>159528659
Yeah dumbass, Cell needed to be at full power for Gohan to awaken his strength

>>159512292
Only dubfags think Goku is a hero.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/wired-japan-1997-akira-toriyama-interview/

Wired: There’s actually “poison” inside?

Toriyama: Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

Wired: Perhaps that’s because it’s animation aimed at children, after all?

Toriyama: Well, that might be some of it, too.

>>159530966
Well I guess that ends it.

>>159512586
>He remembers nothing of Goku's development over the course of the series
No, he just doesn't remember the terrible Americanized Superman-lite version that only retards like you still talk about.

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>>159530966
>Toriyama: Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others

>>159531415
stay mad WoG > your shitty headcanon

>>159531442
Death of the author, fag.

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>>159513203
>Goku is one of the finest human beings to walk the earth
Oh Roshi, if only you knew what he'd end up being...

>>159531442
>It doesn't matter if what where shown contradicts what the author thinks the character actually should be

>>159531498
Death of the author only really applies to works with deep meaning. Dragonball is really really really fucking shallow. The most complicated bit in Dragonball is Vegeta's fucking issues.

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do you agree

>>159532152
While I'm not a big fan of the extreme "death of the author" attitude, yours leads to another extreme, especially when we're talking about hacks like Toriyama. This means shit that we've never seen happen on screen becomes canon, and shit that actually contradicts what we've seen becomes canon as well. Let's not forget this is the guy who forgot Launch and SSJ2.

>>159532216
Well they certainly are violent and have a tendency for neglecting their kids.

>>159532222
Toriyama isn't a hack. He's pretty good at writing crazy, interesting, emotional and funny stories populated with characters that you love or love to hate, and he's an incredible artist to boot.
He just doesn't give a fuck about canon and that shit and doesn't plan things ahead.
I fucking loved Gantz for fucks sake, do you think I give a shit about canon?

I'm not some fucking autistic R eddit spergcunt who has to perfectly fit everything on a timeline.

>>159532451
Stories without constancy are not good stories

>>159532451
>wanting things to be consistent is reddit
You people never cease to amaze me

>>159533125
Stories without consistency are just stories without consistency.

No consistency in a perfect story just degrade the story down to good. They don't automatically bomb the story down to shit.

>>159533125
This. I dropped DB back when Goku lost the final match against Tien when he could simply have his tail spin like an helicopter the way he did 3 years earlier against Roshi, instead of mucking around with Kamehamehaing the air at the last moments. Can't believe I got fooled by the retards saying original DB is better, I'm never trusting /a/'s shit taste ever again.

>>159531152
It's in the manga, retard.

>>159512699
>Can't defend shit writing so he immediately goes to calling people pedro

>>159512817
An act of mercy towards someone who obviously wasn't going to change his ways.

>>159513859
People think american dub Goku has a deep voice?

>>159512508
Goku isn't autistic. If he was autistic, he'd be weak as shit and keep fighting everyone.

Fuck you, go back to /v/.

>>159517638
Because lel goku is evil meme is so funny XD

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>>159512292
>Post yfw the final villain is defeated by the super Genkidama

>>159518603
I cant wait for Caulifla to killed the fighting spirit of mystic Gohan to see you all Gohanfags cry loud

You know it will happen

>>159537949
>to get killed by
ftfy

>>159538121
>Gohan gets job
Sweet Gohanfags tears

>Caulifla gets job
Sweet waifufags tears

It is a win-win scenario

>>159538203
>Implying both of them won't job

>>159512767
I think it's definitely more true to kid Goku's character. Adult Goku definitely became more of a "savior" kind of character.

>>159538203
Gohan will be one of the last fighters so hes not going to job.

>expecting characters to stay IC in a chinese knockoff
Disregard Super.

>>159512292
Super was a mistake

>>159512292
Did 17 always look this feminine?

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>>159530942
yea fuck all the people he saved and helped in dragon ball

>>159512637
>I think Toriyama just didn't like the dub version
I doubt Tori ever watched any dub

>>159512549
>Revenge for krillin
That was Tambourine
King Piccolo was revenge for Roshi, Chaozu, Yamcha etc.

>>159512586
Kid Goku was the ruthless one(he killed Red Ribbon members and King Piccolo like nothing)

Adult Goku was a softie who spared Vegeta and gave Freeza a chance to redeem himself

>>159547655
Goku did not even know about their deaths when charging against Piccolo in their first battle. It was still about his grudge over him being the boss of the guy who killed Krillin.

>>159512646
GT was shit but it wasn't any worse than Cell and Boo saga

Also at least it had DAN DAN Kokoro Hikareteku going for it

>>159512833
So the same shit as Super in the beginning when obvious Nu-shills were trying to shill Super as "similar to teh OG DRAGONBALL XD"?

>Goku is a fighting junkie
>left the Earth's protection to Gohan/Gotenks

why do that

>>159513212
This is so obviously edited

>>159513924
No it doesn't

>>159518603
Your self-insert is shit
Get over it

>>159530966
>poison
What did he mean by that?

>>159535176
VIZ's dub manga doesn't count. Just sayin'

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There's a difference from being in-different and carefree to being an actual fucking retard.

>>159532216
And Charles Hamilton believes in "Super Sonic Philosophy"
Niggers are fucking retarded

>>159533125
Dragon Ball was never about the story. Toriyama's style has never been story-focused and he started out as a gag artist

>>159513203
>get off my planet!
Damn, Goku has planet earth as hostage. It sounds both cool and frightening as fuck.

>>159534105
Really? He just forgot about his tail 'tis all. Eventually the tail stops being a thing.

>>159543294
They just draw 18 nowadays and recolor the hair

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>>159530966
>this kills the faulconerfag

>>159550268
Why Faulconer? Don't you mean Toonamifags?

>>159512292
Literally everything that has happen in regards to saving the world was tied to the villains messinv with Goku and is friends. Saving the world was just an afterthought because the villains want to destroy the world he lives on along with his friends.

So 17 has infinite stamina and is as strong as blue with no transformations involved.

Why are there still competitors left after 2 minutes

>>159548952
>>he's never read the manga

Get out with your shit taste pedro

>>159512292
Why is toriyama so insistent that Goku had literally no character development?

>>159553931
He's Ash/Satoshi of shounen fighting genre?

>>159553208
He's letting them waste their energy first with absorbing ki attacks they throw at him.

>>159512292
Goku has fucking object pertinence, he knows that if he doesn't kill Freeza,Buu, etc. then the whole universe is going to die.

>>159532412
underrated as fuck

ITT: Bunch of dubbabbies thinking they know better

>>159524764
>Tries to let go a literal genocidal dictator that has blown up entire planets that he didn't like, and has an army of bloodthirsty killers at his disposal
>Lets go a guy that had killed a good amount of his friends, tried to blow up his planet and is also a bloodthirsty genocidal maniac with a superiority complex
>So he can have a fun fight in the future
>Risks the planet getting blowed up so his son can have a good fight
>God knows how much of the Buu saga, it was kinda a clusterfuck on everyones part to be fair

Goku is literally only a hero by an infinite amount of retard luck.

Good thing I dropped DBS after episode 1.