Kaiji thread

>>159061290
What would you do anons?
Call Kaijis possible bluff?

>>159061321
No I would fold. It's better to hope for a high card next turn and try to strangle him out while he only has three lives rather than give him the breathing room of gaining a life that isn't his or his friends'.

>>159061373
Personally I would call it. Sure he could have played his high card, but at the same time he gets left with a low card. So he could get screwed over and get another low card. And as Kazuya pointed out, he has enough lives to try and strangle Kaiji. If he bluffed, I get the kill, if he didn't, the situation is still highly tilted in my favor.

>>159062221
I'm going at it from a pragmatic sense of denying Kaiji resources. Outside of winning this hand, the best possible outcome is Kaiji wastes his high card for a single life leaving him at 3 and still playing with actual lives on the line rather than money. If the following round you are dealt a high card and Kaiji isn't you are in overwhelming advantage and can choke him out because he doesn't have a safety net, worst case scenario you lose three and raise Kaiji to six. But if you lose this hand after a call and lose the next in a similar situation you not only lost 6 lives and put Kaiji at 8, a massive comeback, but you will lose any sense of flow and your mental state will deteriorate while Kaiji's improves.

I would rather keep Kaiji floundering and leave him at least one more turn where a small bet can still kill him rather than give him the building blocks to mount an offensive. Cut losses and pray Kaiji just tossed out his high, even if he didn't if next turn you get a high and Kaiji doesn't leaving you both with high-low Kaiji is put in the predicament that you could have gotten an ace or any card above him making him play scared.

Worst situation for Kazuya right now is folding to the low card. That's probably even a greater loss than calling to the high card. The most pragmatic move is calling as it would deny the highest possible gains to the opponent while also establishes a winning scenario.

>>159062653
It's because that's the logical solution that I would call it. You'd have to either be an idiot or have courage to risk not only your life, but everyone else's. Most people wouldn't be able to do that and would play it safe with the high card. But this is Kaiji we're talking about.

>>159063596
Yeah I think you're right that he has to call, but I really have no idea which card Kaiji's played. There's solid logic for either choice. Kazuya is always ranting about how he's a gambling degenerate to the end, so I think he will assume Kaiji plays the low card in order to justify a call (even though it's the right move regardless).

Plus I can't help but feel the 2's are going to be incredibly important (like E-Card Slave/King mechanics but 2/Ace instead), Kazuya's aces are bullshit no matter how you look at it to this point. Every discussion I read seems to forget that he cheated during the salvation game with that little side button, I have no doubt he's cheating in this game too. I did see one theory that it deals out a 2 for every Ace which would also make it "fair" in Kazuya's mind. I'm actually really getting back into this arc.

>>159061373
if you fold, and kaiji played his 2. your mental stat would be in ruin. he literally stole from you and traded the 2 for a possible up card. like no way in hell you are going to draw another ace.

>>159063596
Did you type that right? Calling now and losing is the highest possible gains the opponent can make. No matter what you have done the card Kaiji played has been played. By folding you limit his winnings to a single life rather than 2, if he put his high card in and gets low low he's fucked and if he bluffed with his low but gets another low he's still at high-low. If you get a good high card next turn then you actually have above 50% chance of winning and actually becomes about 66%, when the gamble is at odds which are in your favor and especially one that high that's when you should go on the offensive.

Kazuya currently is not in a position that you should call, because it's too 50/50. The best case scenario if you call may be victory but the worst case scenario is opening the window for Kaiji to come back. If you fold then the max you can be sacrificing is regret for not taking out your opponent if the card was low. I rather fold this round and try again next round with a hopefully better hand, because if it's garbage I just fold and lose the same amount as I would this round but I've cycled through two garbage cards.

>>159064126
That's true, that's why you have to steel yourself and go in planning to lose this hand when you fold. You need to focus and expect a loss here, you need to look at it as a safe investment.

Life leads when played smart can be overwhelming psychological pressure, but currently Kazuya has the pressure of such an impressive lead that he wants to close this out immediately and thinks he can get careless for a hand or two to insure he wins. This thinking process is poison, when you such wild moves in a game where literally 2-3 hands can completely reverse the standings (and it's already happened multiple times this game) you need to calm yourself and not let your opponent dictate the pace. A loss on your terms is different from a loss you were blindsided by, and losing that extra life will be more sting from losing.

>>159064634
>Did you type that right?
Yes. The game doesn't end at this point, calling avoids the worst case scenario which may leave you potentially with no cards worth of playing and also enables to win instantly if your opponent was bluffing. It's the safest route to take with a large lead.

>>159064677
You are discounting the window that is left open for Kaiji by gaining two rather than one. If you get a garbage card next turn you are getting it no matter how you lose this turn, and there is a big difference between Kaiji going into a round with 3 lives and 4 lives. 4 lives will mean he can escape without dying and he could become much more confident in his play, he is less likely to take risky gambles and more likely to take safe ones. With 4 lives worth and being able to escape alive is a huge boost of morale for him.

You need to choke Kaiji out and keep him weak until you are in a position to smash his face in. The cards right now are flowing in Kaiji's favor so it's best to not give him more ammunition.

>>159061290
KAIJI HAS TO LOSE

>>159064995
Looking at it we have four situations.

1. Kaiji placed UP and Kazuya calls.
2. Kaiji placed UP and Kazuya folds.
3. Kaiji placed DOWN and Kazuya calls.
4. Kaiji placed DOWN and Kazuya folds.

In the first situation, Kaiji gains 2 lives. In the 2nd, Kaiji only gains 1. In the third, Kaiji, Chang and Mario die, and in the last Kaiji gains 1 life.

However, excluding the third situation, the next part will happen. For both situation 1 and 2, the following will happen.

1. Kaiji is UP DOWN. Kazuya is UP DOWN.
2. Kaiji is UP DOWN. Kazuya is DOWN DOWN
3. Kaiji is DOWN DOWN. Kazuya is UP DOWN.
4. Kaiji is DOWN DOWN. Kazuya is DOWN DOWN.

However in the 4th situation, it is as follows.

1. Kaiji is UP UP. Kazuya is DOWN UP.
2. Kaiji is UP UP. Kazuya is DOWN DOWN.
3. Kaiji is UP Down. Kazuya is DOWN UP.
4. Kaiji is UP Down. Kazuya is DOWN DOWN.

So if we sort out the gains, in the first situation,
Kaiji gains 2 life, with 1 future situation favorable, two equal and 1 unfavorable. In the 2nd situation, Kaiji is only 1 life, but again with 1 favorable future, 2 equal, and 1 unfavorable.
In the last case, he will be 1 life up, but he will have at least 3 favorable situations, with only 1 unfavorable.

For Kazuya at the very least, folding is the safest option. However for Kaiji, the highest gain is from the fold with the DOWN card. Not only that, but for Kaiji, his DOWN card is the weakest. It will lose to all other DOWN cards.

>>159067912
>For Kazuya at the very least, folding is the safest option.
That's what I've been saying. Either way if Kaiji has up or down, it's better to not risk Kaiji walking out of this hand with four lives. You want Kaiji to stay in his current tense state where a single hand will kill him and his friends, no breathing room.

You also are forgetting there is a possibility in One Poker, high low can scare high high more than another high high because of this possibility: the possibility of a high low consisting of an ace and a two. Right now with these options present there's only a 1 on four scenarios that this hand ends with Kazuya winning and killing Kaiji. The other three consist of Kazuya either 1, 1, or 2 lives respectively. The problem is that if Kaiji played his low card it's possible he will still win because Kazuya played a 6 so it can be trumped by a 7.

Out of all options present the only one where things become unpredictable and can still go either way is playing into a 7. It's unsafe, will SHATTER Kazuyas mental state, leave Kaiji with a high card, and raise Kaiji to four lives to bet with. This is not a bet worth taking.

>>159068305
There's an issue with that line of thinking though. Even though for Kazuya, the safest option is to fold, for Kaiji, the biggest gain is when Kazuya folds. As the one with advantage, Kazuya shouldn't be aiming for safety, but cutting Kaiji down. Despite the fact that Kazuya will only win in one scenario, you also have to look towards the future, where generally speaking, Kazuya will still hold Kaiji at an advantage just because of the number of lives he holds. If Kaiji did play the down card and Kazuya does fold, he gains something even more valuable than an extra life, momentum. Not only that, but there is a blind spot, in the sense of psychology. No one is stupid enough to bet their lives and everyone else's on some bluff right?

>>159068735
This is why Kazuya needs to disassociate with the situation, he needs to look at this as a hand he loses either way and not get caught up on small things. Yes this is a chance to win, but it's also a chance to give Kaiji footing if he calls and fails. One Poker is far from absolutes, the light indicators can both enhance bluffs due to their ability to warp perception of the scenario but they also can falsely bolster confidence. I understand what you mean that in gambling you can't always win by playing safe, but I feel raising associates way too many risks and not enough benefits. As you said yourself Kazuya has a massive lead, but that shouldn't be his thinking in why he makes moves because that will end up slowly whittling away his lives while building Kaiji's.

In this game it's not just as simple as who has the better card down or in their hand. So what if Kaiji has an UP in his hand next turn, if Kazuya draws a better UP he will win the hand or if it's an ace a 2 can even win. Kazuya calling here is committing to the same mistake Kaiji made earlier in the game: not thinking about the current game and worrying too much about the future. If Kazuya looks at this miniscule chance as a definite win and waiting till next turn as a loss he's officially lost in Kaiji's flow and momentum.

>>159069043
You need to look into Kaiji's head too. The logical move is to fold, however for Kaiji though, because the logical move for Kazuya is to fold, why not take that extra risk? That's the biggest issue here. If you remove all emotion, of course folding is the obvious move and Kaiji playing the HIGH. But this is for everyone else's life too. The obvious thing to do is possibly a trap in itself.

>>159069538
But that doesn't matter, getting lost in the moment like that is what causes comebacks. Traps can be multi layered, for all you know Kaiji made a trap anticipating your exact kind of thinking. Kazuya can't pin down what Kaiji is thinking, attempting to is foolish at this juncture because he has very little to lose it he folds this hand. If Kaiji wins this hand from a fold he still only has three lives, all red, and goes in to the next round where things can go better for Kazuya. Letting Kaiji dictate the pace that he can bluff you into betting on a loss is the absolute worst scenario because it means you officially can't trust your own judgement past that point. It would shake you in your ability to read the cards well and plant a seed that you can be fooled into taking big bets.

I genuinely believe the best move, even if it's a sure fire win, is to fold. There's too many variables and negatives that come from losing a call here. If you spend time planning to do this and that with your winnings before you've won you're a fool that is likely to lose, that's what going at this thinking you will kill Kaiji this hand is like.

I'd just flip a coin

>>159070513
I respect your moxy, anon

How many chapter are we behind?

>>159071171
100
The one pocker match is over.

>>159070605
After a certain point you just start devolving into the "what if he knew that I knew that he knew" mentality, at that point might as well flip a coin and save yourself the stress

Wait, why is there Kanji thread?

I though that the translation of it was was dead

>>159071888
Nah it's getting translated at a steady pace

>>159071241
What's the next arc ?

>>159072271
The game is over, but not conclusion made yet. We don't know.

>>159072271
Kaiji plays the lottery

>>159072271
uno of course versus Hyoudou

>>159072271
Mahjong with Kazuya, Kazutaka and Ichijou

>>159074543
>Ichijou
Let it go, man.

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>>159074735
NO

>>159074917
He's gone for good. I didn't like him, but I couldn't help but feel bad at his fate.

>>159074917
It's over, he won't return.

>>159072330
Kazuya will be falling out of that chair for at least five chapters, it's pure fucking anguish.

>>159075806
You fucking telling me lad. Every week I'm waiting and waiting,hoping to know what the fuck happens next, but FUCK NO. I love every moment of this manga though. I think next week there won't be a new chapter unfortunately.

>>159075942
I have literally no idea how Kazuya will get out of that one, considering Kaiji and the company have literally zero means of stopping Mother Sophie and the Teiai goons are outside, but I doubt Fukumoto will just kill him off.

Come to think of it, I've checked out every single one of Fukumoto's works aside from Ten and Gin to Kin, and I don't think he's ever shown anyone explicitly dying. Fake Akagi and the people who fell off during the beam game are all there is to it.

>>159076167
There's no way Kaiji will be able to stop the net right in the middle. And I don't think anyone will interfere and save him, like you said.But, I also don't believe he is going to die.My guess is that Kaiji will manage to stop it somewhere in Kazuya's reach and maybe then he will manage to grab it or something? I'm really curious to see what's next. And then,
even if he survives, how will he develop as a character?Fuck, this is suffering.

>>159076167
>aside from Ten and Gin to Kin
>Gin to Kin

There's several instances of murders on screen.

>>159076532
You know how to sell someone on something, anon.

>>159076432
The exciting part, however, is that Kaiji is officially filthy fucking rich. The Bog's payout seems small since I think his current cash goes into billion territory? Considering that one life is equivalent to 300 million yen.

There's also this one

>>159076733
Oh shit, I completely forgot about that part. B-but he can't have nice things! I'm sure he will fuck up somehow again.

>>159077059
Someone will probably rob and betray him again Maybe he'll use it to charity or something since he's such a nice guy and all.

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>>159077157
>Maybe he'll use it to charity or something since he's such a nice guy and all.
Can you fucking imagine? Nah he is not that retarded.
To be honest some people here don't like him because of his extreme kindness and naivety, but I actually like this about him.
I remember the first time I watched Kaiji, in the first arc after he was betrayed for the first time and then tried to form a team, I thought he was going to turn all edgy because of what happened, and try to deceive them or something, but no matter how many times people fucked him over he remained a nice person
He does keep on fucking up tho. Pic related

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>>159074917
Let's be real, this is Ichijou the next time we see him.

>>159077829
>Can you fucking imagine? Nah he is not that retarded.
I actually can. He gave almost everything he had won with the bog to his barely friends and that even after being robbed. He's just too pure for that world. I don't think that part of his character will ever change.

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So One Poker is over, but it's not fully translated yet? I just caught up to what I think is the most recently translated chapter.

>you will never have a friend like kaiji
Feels bad man

>>159079051
It's not really over yet. See >>159075806

>>159079150
I didn't want to be spoiled, but it had to end that way, didn't it?

FKMT is deciding if he wants to kill Kazuya or Washizu right now.

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>>159080742
I'm sorry but I did spoilered it. And you did enter the thread that was to be expected.

I don't want Kazuya to die. I want him to live and to finally know true friendship. Why can't everyone get a happy ending? ;_;

>>159083336
He's a bad person, anon, you don't just say "oh sorry" and keep going with your life after torturing people to death. That's not a shitty shounen I hope.

How pissed is Kazuya's dad going to be if Kazuya dies? Yeah he may have gambled and lost billions of his dad's money, and to Kaiji to less, but that is his only heir (I assume).

>>159083578
>keep going with your life after torturing people to death
Well, it worked for Washizu.

>>159083624
That's not the same. Washizu didn't force anyone to play, they played on their own will. And the conditions were clear. Plus Washizu is not some sissy rich teenager, he didn't regret anything and wasn't saved "by the power of friendship", I really hope Kazuya won't be saved this way either.

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>>159083741
I mostly meant the part about getting away with murder.

>Washizu didn't force anyone to play, they played on their own will
I doubt he'd reveal the rules of the game and let someone walk away knowing he murdered people, though.

>>159077157
>Maybe he'll use it to charity

Come on anon, have you not been paying attention? He will squander it on pointless shit like pachinko. That's what he does.

>>159083336
>>159083578
I agree with both of you.

I'm so conflicted on Kazuya.

>>159084096
He's endearing as a character to us, readers, but deep inside you know he can't just get away with all the shit he has done.

I am certain Kaiji will at least try to save Kazuya. He is too nice of a person, and too affected by death, to just watch him fall and snap his neck while doing nothing. Kaiji has no problem bankrupting someone, leaving them to a life of hard labor, but he draws a line at letting someone die.

>>159083925
Well he did challenge them for a Mahjong game and probably mentioned the high stakes, they could have refused. Plus the rules applied to himself as well, too bad he was actually brilliant at Mahjong so they all lost.
It's not like he captured people and tortured them in some restaurant for entertainment.
Washizu's beliefs in himself, his diabolic luck and his "godhood" are unshakable while Kazuya is mostly an edgy teen that just wants to have some friends.
My point is that Kazuya and Washizu are just playing in different leagues you can't really compare them.

>>159084182
He IS trying to safe him. But what can he really do at this point? I've a hard time to imagining a way out of this situation for Kazuya.

>>159084482
I think it might be possible to save Kazuya with all the money. This is a dumb idea, but if you spilled all the money Kazuya brought, you could make a cushion for when he falls.

Is Saki a good manga for someone who wants more mahjong?

I don't mind the cute girls but I want to see they actually playing mahjong.