>Nah, guess I'm nobody... Is there a single MC

Kamina.

>implying the MC is a nobody
Fuck off with your dirty hobo.

>>157642157
Just watched that scene for first time like 20 sec ago.

And no, he's better than Kamina. I finally said it.

>>157642186
Kamina is a gay fag compared to Simon.

>>157642211
That dirty hobo is greater than a man with infinite riches.

>>157643603
>hobo apologists on /a/

>>157643629
I am a hobo though. It's how I solved the problem of being a NEET after my parents die.

>>157642186
fuck no

>That way he hesitates to say who the hell do you think I am

What I would give to experience this show for the first time again

>>157642157
Man Simon deserved a better ending, especially after all the shit he went through dude atleast deserves to live in comfort for the rest of his life. Nina disappearing was heartbreaking to say the least, imagine knowing someone from your childhood and having them poof out of existence on your wedding day.

no there isn't. simon best guy of all time

>>157642157
Why was this ending so horrible?
It was Haganai levels of bad

>>157647925
It was a good ending now that I think about it.
It just made us feel bad because we wanted him rewarded for his efforts.

>>157648072
It was a kick in the nuts, Spiral Nemesis was a better alternative

>>157648101
Most anime can't even kick us in the nuts. Be thankful we got even that.

>>157642157
>not a cute girl
kys

>>157648072
He became the bigger man. If he said fuck it and kept Nia alive somehow, it'd have proven the Antispiral right. The only way for them to win was to take the loss. That's essentially been their whole fight with the Antispiral, with Kittan's sacrifice, the Gurren team leaving the utopian dream, and so on. They're building something bigger than their selfish happiness and their individual lives.

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Who else cried when they saw this?

>>157649162
I dunno, I thought that whole drama bit where they were gonna execute Simon was pretty fucking dumb to be honest. Wouldn't have been too sad to see him do it.

>>157649180
He wasn't gonna execute Simon. It's just how governments are run.

The guy's a fucking god.

He's just doing the buddha shit.

>>157649180
The drama was overdone because Rossiu had no reason to get Simon executed (which he didn't even do in the end, he put him in jail which is still essentially the same but you got me)
What made me mad is how easily Simon forgave Rossiu after that betrayal. Sure he had his reasons for trying to save the people his (stupid and unefficient) way but he didn't have to go all the way and destroy Simon's life like that or treat him this way.

They did a good job showing his remorse after that though and a suicide attempt was the only way to give him some sort of redemption after the shit he pulled.

>>157649284
Did you cry when you saw it?

>>157649162
>>157649180
>>157649233
>>157649284
I'm still mad over this
I honestly expected Rossiu to have an overcomplicated keikaku that relied on Simon teaming up with Viral and that throwing him in jail was the only way to make it feel natural to them all

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>>157649315
No, it was pretty heavy but he kinda got it coming by acting like that.

I teared up at the ending, though. And pic related too.

>>157649364
Yeah, Viral's dream above all the others was a real "oh shit" moment to me. That moment in your pic still gives me goosebumps when I watch it.

I know beastmen were made to be unable to use Spiral Power, but that moment made me feel like if anybody deserved to break that barrier it was him.

>>157649106
Is there an anime where the protagonist essentially says "fuck it" and decides to be selfish as all hell because he doesn't care about hypocritical?

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>>157649390
>Dies saying exposition
I am legitimately mad how they fucked this up

>>157649390
>>157649427
Incredibly unsatisfying ending, I have to agree. Even though what she said was certainly true, they just handled it so fucking poorly. It felt rushed.

>>157649415
Abenobashi

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>>157649415
Arguably Shinji Ikari

>>157649415
I could name a couple selfish MCs, but I can hardly think of a non-shitty selfish MC who also burns the world for his individual desires (Light Yagami kinda fits the description though)

It's more of a >>>/tv/ thing I guess.

>>157649415
Gun X Sword

>>157649415
desert punk

>>157649415
MD Geist

TTGL's forced drama and the forced dilemma at the end was retarded and always will be retarded.

It was like the trolley problem if there was nobody on track #2 and pulling the lever would be morally wrong because you don't have a rail technician's degree.

>>157649415
Vaan of GunXSword or DesertPunk

>>157649415
UBW and HF Shirou

>>157642157
Please I don't want to age like this, that's so fucking depressing

>>157647286
He literally chose his ending

>>157649587
It's more like if you did the second track would end up killing all of existence

>>157649587
It's well-established that overuse of Spiral energy will lead to doom. Selfish desires like reviving dead people count as overuse (people wanted to not revive just Nia but also the others) and it'd be the start of Simon playing God. Avoiding spiral nemesis was only possible by making a strong statement and maintaining a strict policy.

>>157647286
It's the only part of TTGL I dislike. If they were going to kill her she should have died with the antispiral, but giving the hope that she'd survive just to delete her anyways made 2x worse

>>157649587
>because you don't have a rail technicians degree

Speak for yourself, anon

Everyone will die in TTGL eventually anyway because the Spiral Nemesis will happen unopposed.

>>157649587
It's more like this:
>don't pull the lever: your girlfriend dies
>pull the lever: your girlfriend lives but you set a precedent that will likely directly lead to all of creation being destroyed
Simon is a hero.

>>157649673
She stayed alive with her own Spiral power and through Simon's

>>157649653
>>157649656
The logic of the preaching was broken. She wasn't dying in any way naturally. She was dying because the enemy basically switched off her life support as a one final "fuck you". By your logic if a doctor stops a sick patient from dying, he's playing god. I'm not even mad about the ending anymore after all these years. But I'll never stop being mad about there being people who are retarded enough that the ending makes sense or is DEEP.

I don't watch samurai jack, but I heard how they ripped off TTGL's ending, except the ripped off version actually made fucking sense and had real cause and effect instead of hamhanded abstract soapboxing. That's the level TTGL's ending is at, someone randomly plagiarizes it and ends up making it better because it can't get worse and more nonsensical.

>>157642157
TTGL is a Gundam SEED ripoff. At the end of the series Jesus Yamato, the greatest living being to ever exist, retires becoming a nobody who runs and orphanage. How come Gainax cannot make any anime without ripping off true masterpieces?

>>157649908
>By your logic if a doctor stops a sick patient from dying, he's playing god.
If for that he uses a device that will bring the end of the universe when overused and can be reused not just to stop someone from dying but also to revive anyone and do more crazy shit, including planet sized nukes and shit, yes, the doctor is playing with stuff he shouldn't be playing with.

Simon could've set a precedent and it'd have been terrible. He didn't because he grew enough to see the bigger picture, that was the point of Gurren Lagann.

>>157649859
"Likely" is the key word

Face it, the antispiral was just being cautious. The spiral nemesis could theoretically occur if every individual spiral being has an immense amount of power. Were they to create a body of governance over spiral energy, where only they could use it, they could continue to advance their own interests without risking the nemesis

>>157647286
He spent his live fulfilling the dream of the woman he loved. He was happy and content.

>>157649999
Except it wasn't a precedent-setting situlation in the first place. It was a completely unique scenario that had fucking nothing to do with bringing people back from the dead or playing god. She was made to need energy from outside sources to survive and they treated it like not giving her the natural sustenance or fixing it is the moral choice because muh spiral nemesis.

The main characters fucking let their friend die for literally no reason from something that was practically an easily medicated illness. They misinterpreted their own rules that they had JUST RECENTLY MADE UP on something they weren't even applicable to. Now that I'm talking about it, I'm actually starting to get mad at the ending again because of remembering how fucking retarded and pretentious it makes the whole cast look at the end.

>>157650329
They can't just "stop Nia from dying". She's extinguishing along with the Antispiral, as he told them before dying. Her holding out for a week was already a miracle and Simon can't just pump her full of Spiral or something, he has to REVIVE HER. And reviving her is wrong like for anybody else. Just because the cause of death is "My spiral energy is fading" instead of "I got burned by spiral powered lasers" doesn't change anything. It still means using spiral energy to revive somebody and sets a precedent. Gimmy wanted the others to be revived too, and there's no reason to stop there. In fact, using spiral energy for a single life could be enough to trigger the Spiral Nemesis, who fucking knows?

Get a brain.

>>157649611
>HF
Yes
>UBW
Wrong

>>157650447
>She's extinguishing along with the Antispiral
And why is that? She lived and grew up like a normal human being until he died, there's no other explanation than her being reliant on getting a supply of life force or whatever the fuck from him. There wouldn't be any need for reviving if she was just connected to something else for energy instead to live like a normal human. Again, you're arguing that if a doctor saves someone who was born with a medical condition, that's resurrection or playing god or whatever garbage.

And don't try go give me some bullshit about "oh nooo that wouldn't work", when the dialogue makes it clear she could've easily been saved. It had to have been babby's first anime for you, if you're so hung up on thinking it's a deep masterpiece instead of fucking blind retard -tier bad writing.

>>157650864
>She lived and grew up like a normal human being until he died, there's no other explanation than her being reliant on getting a supply of life force or whatever the fuck from him.
Yes. A supply that can't necessarily be provided by someone else.
Your criticism can be summed up to "the limits of metaphorical drill magical powers disturb me because I decided that despite what the narration told me, the protagonist should be able to break the story with them". It's ridiculous and I don't need explain why.

>>157650329
>Except it wasn't a precedent-setting situlation in the first place. It was a completely unique scenario that had fucking nothing to do with bringing people back from the dead or playing god. She was made to need energy from outside sources to survive and they treated it like not giving her the natural sustenance or fixing it is the moral choice because muh spiral nemesis.

Oh god this. The reasoning behind not saving Nia was so cheaply cringeworthy. It was clear as day that they wanted to go for the "sad ending" even if it didn't make a lick of sense and shat all over their
>we're gonna do the impossible
mentality that drove them all the way until now.

>>157650992
If she died for literally any rational reason and not
>the bad guy died so now she's going to die too because previously completely unmentioned reasons and unexplained logic lmao
the ending would've been fine. But with what they went with, the reason she dies is retarded, the reason why they refuse to save her is retarded, and the final message of the show is based on a bunch of retarded nonsense that makes the characters look retarded.

If she died for any "natural" reason the ending would've made perfect sense. But they decided to go with the most contrived and stupid thing they could ever think of, and THAT's true hack writing.

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Hey guys I'm part human and part antispiral!
With the antispirals gone I'm gonna vanish though, those fuckers are dragging me down with them after awakening that messenger shit against my will! Could you please fix that up maybe stabilizing my human side or some shit?

>"Sorry Nia can't resurrect the dead."
But I'm not dead-
>"It would set a terrible precedent"
But I'm literally the only case the universe will ever see of this-
>"We can't do something this out of line"
You literally punched holes through the fabric of space time and broke every single limit up until now and all it did was make the universe better-
>"No can do, love you though"

>"Welp she's dead, guess I'll turn into a hobo"

>>157642157
He was boring as fuck honestly. I wish he was characterized more than just "guy who loves the people close to him". I never got that feeling of wanting to root for him and that made the second half that much harder to get through.

>>157651191
>child object can't exist without parent object
That's a basic causality relationship that does not apply to humans but to many things, especially artificial constructs. It's also a widely used trope and therefore in the acceptable realm from a spectator standpoint. Nia disappearing makes sense.
Simon not being able to prevent her from disappearing without going all the way and reviving her which sets a precedent is an arbitrary limit to spiral power. A limit that makes it more interesting than "DON'T WORRY YOU CAN JUST SPIRAL POWER YOUR WAY THROUGH ANYTHING BRO" and "JUST STOP THE SPIRAL NEMESIS WITH MORE SPIRAL POWER". Therefore it's perfectly okay from a writing standpoint, as Spiral Power never had strict or well-defined rules, only serving the story and message, which it did here.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the ending. Contain your autism.

>>157651341
>Simon not being able to prevent her from disappearing without going all the way and reviving her
Source on this?

かばんちゃん

>>157651271
>he just wanted to be a hobo

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>>157651341
Dude you did nothing but repeat the same argument you already stated a bunch of times.

The ending is stupid because Nia's case is absolutely unique and thus wouldn't set any bad precedent in saving her. Please address this or stop raising dust.

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>>157651375

>>157651519
Huh, no? Nowhere is it stated that they couldn't have used Spiral powers and fix her BEFORE vanishing.

It's like forbidding medicine because it could be potentially be used to resurrect the dead, thus letting thousands of ill and sick patients die. It's a stupid moral ground that makes no sense.

>>157651506
The specifics of her case are unique (how she dies). The reasoning and consequences are the same. You're using the universe-ending force to bring someone back to life. That's the precedent it sets.

>>157651587
The antispiral says she will vanish. And the only time they say spiral power could have changed anything, it's to say they could BRING HER BACK. Not prevent her from vanishing.

The logical ockham razor conclusion is that they couldn't have used spiral power to "fix" her before vanishing or that it'd have been just as bad as bringing her back after vanishing. Otherwise it'd have been considered, talked about, criticised by a character, or even told by the Antispiral.

>caring about the ending
Literally everything after Kittan's death is not worth watching desu

>>157651519

LOL he cucked himself

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>>157651592
How about saving her before she dies?
If you can conjure titanic galaxy-sized mechwarriors out of nowhere with Spiral powers, why is fixing her anti-spiral body side "too much" now?

Face it dude, it's nonsensical. I could've accepted this if she died in battle or bled out to death right at the end or something, but they had WEEKS to do something about it before her death and still did nothing.

It feels stupid as fuck to go "can't resurrect the dead" when you could've easily avoided to be in that position in the first place. I totally understand why people accuse this ending of hack writing.

>>157651341
>That's a basic causality relationship that does not apply to humans but to many things, especially artificial constructs
>whoops my house got destroyed because the hammer used to drive in the nails broke hundreds of miles away
Yeah how about no, if anything that's a violation of causality. The effect would have to travel back in time to the point where the two objects timelines branched off of eachother and enter the other object's "personal" line of causality. Not to mention atleast a considerable part of her was human, evidenced by her living and functioning just like any other human being until the Antispiral fucked her shit up.

>Therefore it's perfectly okay from a writing standpoint, as Spiral Power never had strict or well-defined rules, only serving the story and message, which it did here.
This defense of the ending relies on metashit that doesn't bear any weight when you're looking at events in-universe. Pulling random shit out of the ass for the convenience of the message the story is trying to push is literally pure hack writing territory. Art- and deepfags will try to argue story is secondary to the meta, but why even have a story that doesn't have logic.

When you accept having no logic or story, in favour of pure meta and OOC messages, you're entering the territory of modern art where people smear feces on canvases and call them masterpieces.

>>157651685
>The antispiral says she will vanish.
They also said they couldn't be defeated.

>>157651736
See >>157651685
The limitation of spiral power were always arbitrary. You're trying to say hot-blooded drill magic should work this way and not this way. This is not ground for discussion or valid criticism.

>>157651768
>whoops my house got destroyed because the hammer used to drive in the nails broke hundreds of miles away
More like
>whoops my virtual machine isn't running anymore because my computer broke

>Not to mention atleast a considerable part of her was human, evidenced by her living and functioning just like any other human being until the Antispiral fucked her shit up.
She can fly, teleport, shoot laser beams, parts of her body disappears and that's only half of the weird shit she does. That's not human.

>Pulling random shit out of the ass
It's not random shit when nothing was defined.
>why is loosely-defined magic shown to have limits? this is hack writing
Yeah, no. Your whole criticism is based on something insignificant, a detail at best. We call that autism.

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>>157651994
We're talking of a magic power fueled by will that can turn a pet hamster into a full fledged evoluted human being who can talk fluently and use energy attacks, yet saving Nia by fixing her non-human side who'd been working fine for years is impossible for some reason.

Face it dude, if we're actually using Ockham's Razor then the hack writing for the sake of drama situation is a lot more plausible.

>>157652126
True, but said pet hamster had magic power. The artificial construct didn't. Also that happened in an artificial universe where thought became tangible or some shit.

There's no rationalizing that shit anyway, and since the premise. Simon asspulled teleportation to stop Rossiu's suicide. Outside of previously shown abilities, only the story can tell you what's possible and what's not. We've never seen medicinal artificial life preserving spiral energy, and the story indirectly told it wasn't possible -partly for the sake of its message. Make your conclusion.

Speaking of TTGL, I like how Gendy ended Samurai Jack, made me want to rewatch TTGL again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hjFsavpMGE

>>157651271
I think a key part of this is that Nia knew what was going to happen and accepted it. He was just following her wishes to not let everything they fought for be in vein

>>157649390
At least TTGL fleshed it out a bit and was more logical about the entire thing

>>157652126
>Nia by fixing her non-human side who'd been working fine for years is impossible for some reason.
She was never a human
That's the point

Simon is probably still an immortal spiral God, so it's not that bad

>>157650026
It's corrupt as fuck to use spiral power to only benefit your immediate family and friends

Also bringing Nia back from the dead with spiral power would have set an awful precedent for the abuse of spiral power

It's a slippery slope and with something that could destroy the universe you need red lines that aren't crossed

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>>157652274
I did. They made up a limitation on the fly that contrasted with everything they'd shown so far (Spiral potential being limitless), hence it's hack writing.

I totally dig the "we can't resurrect dead people that's too much abuse" message, but letting Nia die beforehand merely to give a dramatic example of that was moronic.

I imagine if Nia had died impaled by the Antispirals they would've given Yoko a heartstroke to push the same message. That's what I call bad writing.

>>157652472
She had a mother, father, grew boobs and ate food.
She was human enough, in fact she was perfectly fine until the "Messenger" crap got activated.

Just remove or fix that shit and let her keep going as she'd done for years prior to the second arc, easy.

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>>157652494
>They made up a limitation on the fly that contrasted with everything they'd shown so far (Spiral potential being limitless)
Spiral power can't stop Spiral nemesis. Spiral power could only get this far because Antispirals let them adapt everytime. Spiral beings can evolve, but they're not omnipotent Gods.

>>157652525
She's pretty much a sentient robot anon made by people who can make probability altering missiles

They can easily probe her mind like a database and recall her like the Mugabe Robots

>>157652590
Which I never said, so, huh, you're welcome?

>>157652525
She's a virtual lifeform. Is it so hard to accept you can't make it a real human bean in a story with loosely-defined rules? It's like saying Harry Potter is shit not because it's a bad story but because people never use the Attract spell to steal money or something.

>>157652651
>they made up a limitation on the fly
>they're not Gods so some limitations are believable
>I never said that

>>157652728
Feel free to quote when I said they're gods, otherwise stop strawmanning.

>>157652746
What I'm quoting is the limitation part.

>>157652763
And yet your screenshot, filename and post mentioned that God shit I never said, so, huh, you're welcome?

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Wow, I didn't even know there existed such babies who're so upset at TTGL having a bittersweet ending. Why do you need all these headcanons and overreaching/overthinking leaps in logic just to think about something nice? Can't you just accept a sad ending for what it is? This is pathetic

Same shit happened with Samurai Jack, but that's just because /co/ is filled with namby pamby, fragile little mincing faggots

>>157652694
>She's a virtual lifeform
She's clearly an autonomous person with flesh and blood, and the universe or antispirals aren't a computer she's contained in. Try again

>>157649415
Gon

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Oreki is the greatest of MCs.

>>157652805
If you think reaaally hard about it, you might see the link between "Not being a God" and "having limitations".

>>157652835
Her flesh and blood are being erased at will by the Antispiral, she can teleport and do all kinds of weird shit. Also, and most importantly, they've been calling her a virtual lifeform. You can't be more explicit than that.

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>>157652649
Yes, antispirals are crazy shit and Nia is part of that.
What I'm saying is that they could've easily used their own will-fueled magic shit to fix the human side she obviously had and be done with it before she died, thus having no need to "revive the dead" and making any "bad precedent".
If the antispirals could use their own power to make Nia less than human, so could they to fix their shit.
Translation: bad writing.

At the end of the day there are two kinds of people who watched this ending:
a) Those with critical thinking towards the show.
b) Those who gobbled up everything the show said as unquestionable gold.

Bittersweet endings are great when done right, but this one felt tacky and forced for the sake of drama.
Great show, sucky ending. Not a first for Gainax.

>>157652831
>hurr 3DEEP5you
It's not a bittersweet ending, it's a poorly written asspull ending.

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I will still always think that TTGL shoulda ended after part 1. Nothing really happens part 2 character wise or story wise that's that interesting.
Part 2 was also really boring in comparison. I really enjoyed the first half, but I hate the latter half, and not for its ending but just continuing a story that didn't need to be continued.

>>157642186
>implying based Kamina would attempt to claim his bro's spoils of war and fame for himself

missed the point/10

>>157652378
Wait - shouldn't Jack himself also disappear? Since the future from which he returned to the past also doesn't exist?

>>157652974
>If the antispirals could use their own power to make Nia less than human, so could they to fix their shit.
They didn't make her less than human, they made her a sentient artificial creation that mimicked humans. You don't "fix" that. At most you extend the time it exists. And by "you" I mean the Antispirals. Which don't exist at the end of the story, by the way.

>At the end of the day there are two kinds of people who watched this ending:
>a) Those with critical thinking towards the show.
>b) Those who gobbled up everything the show said as unquestionable gold.
Nice sophism. Putting people in categories "A) Those who agree with me and are smart B) Retards who disagree with me" is the dumbest thing you can do in a discussion, but I expected no less from a retard like you.

>>157652995
Magic had limitations way before the ending. Episode 8. 24, 25 come to mind.

>>157651694
Simon vs Anti-spiral is amazing in the movie.

>>157653065
It's time travel, nobody fucking cares anymore holy shit
You must be like 12 and this is your first time travel story to still be bringing this paradox shit up
Shut the fuck up mate

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>>157652902
If this was true they would've just spawned Nia out of nowhere not tampered with LordGenome's family to make one.

Plus they fucked, "virtual" my ass.

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>all these anons arguing about the ending

if you think the ending was bad you clearly havent watched enough shows

The ending was great and in time you will learn to appreciate how rare a good ending is in fiction.

>>157653065
Well not really, since he isn't from the future in the first place. The difference between the TTGL and SJ endings is that the SJ ending actually makes sense on atleast some level. He gets fucked with time, then he comes back and fucks time, and time's like "ok I'm fucked", the future that can't happen anymore is deleted and that's that.

>>157653157
>They didn't make her less than human, they made her a sentient artificial creation that mimicked humans. You don't "fix" that.
Source?

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>>157653182
>he never fucked something virtual
Your waifu would be ashamed.

>>157653198
>they were all a bunch of morons so it stands to reason they'd be trapped by a false slippery slope logic and let one of theirs die

Meh, I've seen better

>>157643539
This.

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>>157653177
Oh jeez, I guess /co/ is really touchy about their inconsistent rushed cartoons. This is not even about a paradox, I'm not complaining about the time travel mechanics, just the equal application of these mechanics across all the characters. The fact that Ashi disappears and Jack didn't is a very cheap way of creating an "emotional" scene

>>157653211
Except he got back to the past from a timeline that vanished, hence he never got back to the past and should've disappeared just like the girl. I'm 100% sure this is an inconsistency, either they both should've disappeared or neither of them. Would've been fine if neither of them did.

>>157653378
That's the least of the SJ ending flaws. You can always expect a few things to not make perfect sense when timetravel or shit like that is involved.

>>157649415
Shirou on hf route

>character wears a cloak once
>"he was an impoverished hobo forever and ever"

>>157653378
>time travel mechanics
I haven't even seen Samurai Jack
It's just that literally everybody has seen the exact same stupid questions raised a thousand times before. It doesn't fucking matter, time travel doesn't have whatever logic you think it does because it doesn't exist other then what the writers say it does

Just shut the fuck up, nobody cares anymore, just enjoy your fucking cartoon mate

>>157653451
No, you misunderstood, superhero shirou is the selfish one. HF shirou is basically selfless.

UBW shirou would be the answer to that guy's question

>>157651288
>He was boring as fuck honestly

This. Whether you compare him to his brother or Captain Garlock, Simon just doesn't stack up.

>>157649656
This

>>157653518
>time travel doesn't have whatever logic you think it does because it doesn't exist other then what the writers say it does
Incorrect, time travel does have universal rules. The first rule of time travel is that writers must always configure it to give the main characters a laser-guided dicking in the ass.

>>157653518
>don't think just mindlessly consume media, that's what fun is!

I think I'm beginning to understand /co/ a little better now.

>>157642186
Kamina exists solely to make Simon, Kamina 2.0

>>157653707
I don't watch /co/shit but I think the substance and focus of this piece of media aren't the mechanics of time travel.

>>157649908
>I don't watch samurai jack, but I heard how they ripped off TTGL's ending, except the ripped off version actually made fucking sense and had real cause and effect instead of hamhanded abstract soapboxing.

That is more or less what happened, yeah.

>That's the level TTGL's ending is at, someone randomly plagiarizes it and ends up making it better because it can't get worse and more nonsensical.

Pretty much.

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>>157649364

>>157653877
Forgot to text. But god damn it. This scene got to me. Viral the immortal warrior who's only mission is to fight. This perfect dream was so far from left field. All he wanted was a god damn family,

Whenever I rewatch TTGL I just skip the last 10 minutes, there, problem solved.

Show's pretty great overall but the moral ground "logic" at the end was unbearably stupid to me.

>>157653590
Actually Prisma Shirou 2.0 beats them both

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This fucks me every time ;-;

>>157649414

He did thouhg

>>157655774
He used Spiral Power to escape the maze, right? I don't think he could have kids though, but maybe he could adopt one.

>>157652902
Spiral power itself is limitless, the ability of humans to use it is limited (presumably), which is why Simon isn't a god. The introduction of the vague threat of the spiral nemesis is completely asspull writing in order for the narrative to bend over backwards in order to shoehorn in a "don't play god" theme, simply for the sake of a bittersweet ending. Bittersweet does not profound make, especially when the writing shits itself in order to realize it. That's not even getting into how utterly retarded the Anti-Spirals were as villains.

>>157656291
>The introduction of the vague threat of the spiral nemesis is completely asspull writing
Learn the definition of an asspull before posting.

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>>157649415
Prisma Shirou.
Nigger decided that it was better that the world die, than his sister,
The madman actually went through with it and fucked humanity.

>>157656291
>That's not even getting into how utterly retarded the Anti-Spirals were as villains

Did they ever get around to so much as hinting at an reason why the AS couldn't just blink the Earth out of existence the second the population hit one million?

>>157656646
I'm pretty sure Lordgenome suck their dicks to let them live and the Million people was just a condition the AS made just in case.

>>157656942
>>157656646
First it was just an automated destruction program, they started using the big mechs later

>>157651271
It's called having skin in the game.

At first skin in the game was doing whatever it takes to break the system, then it became not fucking over the world just as what antispirals were sure would happen.
>>157652831
It's not all that sad, really. Well okay it is sad but it's also full of life and profound. I'm sorry, i really think it is considering how many people misinterpret everything, myself included.

>>157649284
>his (stupid and unefficient) way
Realistically, that was what made most sense at the moment.

>>157649908
>complaining about nonsensical stuff
>a fucking giant robot throwing galaxies as shurikens is ok

I love it when MCs say they are nobody and everyone treats them like a nobody. Despite them totally not being a nobody. I would do the same as Simon desu. Or maybe I would do this>>157649162 because after fighting the anti-spiral and winning, there would be nothing in the world for me to live for. How did Simon muster the courage to live?

>>157657268
>enemy is attempting to wipe you out by dropping the moon onto the earth
>meanwhile they're attacking your cities with exploding drones
>you have both a giant robot of unknown origin and potentially limitless power and it's pilot, a man with a proven record of prevailing against insane and impossible odds
>rather than put them to work taking down the moon and/drones, your bright idea is to scrap the robot because you've already decided (absent any evidence) your MPs are better, execute the pilot in a vain attempt to placate the masses, grab your bitch and anyone you personally feel like sparing, and run like a coward into space and a probable ambush by the enemy

No it wasn't.

I like to think the Anti-spirals lost the battle but ultimately won the war in the end, as they'd succesfully broken Simon's indomitable spirit into fearing what they did and even letting Nia die out of threat for the "Spiral Nemesis".

The fact that Simon ends alone and tattered like a hobo is no coincidence to me. Amazing ending, even if a gut punch.

>>157657710
Simon couldn't have pulled it off without meeting Viral in prison.
Rossiu did everything he could

>>157657868
It's not like Simon lost either, he learned from them and took the best course of action for everyone involved.

>>157642157
George Washington is basically the same

>>157657710
In the context of the anime, yeah that makes sense. But in reality, you can't just base your whole strategy in "spiral power".

>>157642157
Simon was a fuckign faggot. The single most insufferable piece of shit I've had the displeasure of watching. Nearly made me drop TTGL. Hated him till the end. He should've died like a bitch.

>>157643539
you're a gay fag compared to you're mom

>>157657922
The APPARENT best course of action, dictated by a race who believed in desperation and unavoidable fates.

>>157643539
But Simon was gayer

>>157658162
Simon felt Spiral Nemesis too. He's a spiral user.

>>157658213
Sure, but the real normal Simon would've saved Nia and preserved the universe from the Spiral Nemesis, "doing the impossible" like he always did.
That's what I meant by the anti-spirals having broken him into their own way of seeing things in the end.

>>157658371
It's not the Antispirals, Simon felt the Spiral Nemesis himself. Had he felt that later, he'd have done the same. The Antispirals succeeded at conveying that crucial piece of information, not breaking Simon's mind or way.

>>157649390
That's a shyte relationship development tho.
Jack didn't do nuthin for her, Simon punched a whole in space and travel across the universe looking for her.

>>157658555
Simon was using her to find the anti-spirals because love transcends time and space.

>>157658446
He became a broken man regardless of technicalities and bowed down instead of taking the SN head-on like he always did, so it doesn't really matter who did what

>>157658688
This
Ending was trash because Simon didn't go all out
Kamina would have punched his teeth in if he saw that

>>157656546
Pirsma Shirou is HF Shirou done right

>>157658371
What is impossible about bringing back the dead if it's as easy to you as blinking? It's not bringing back the dead that became impossible.

>>157653198
Gaogaigar's ending was better, and a better mecha anime as well

>>157656291
>The introduction of the vague threat of the spiral nemesis is completely asspull writing in order for the narrative to bend over backwards in order to shoehorn in a "don't play god" theme, simply for the sake of a bittersweet ending.
I thought Spiral Nemesis was pretty concrete threat. Spiral Power allows you to have as much energy as you want. But the more energy you suck into Universe the higher its energy density becomes which leads to change in mass of the Universe and creation of black holes. We even get a look at darkness consuming everything in Simon vision.

Spiral Nemesis is just the Black Hole of all Black Holes that eats whole Universe.

>>157661245
And then you use more spiral power to create a bigger universe, or just make this one bigger to lower the density
It's fucking TTGL, spiral power solves everything, just power through it

>>157646913
am i the only one who didn't like TTGL the first time i watched it? it became my 2nd favorite anime after i rewatched it

>>157650087
>fulfilling the dream of the woman he loved
What was Nia's dream?

>>157661323
>And then you use more spiral power to create a bigger universe, or just make this one bigger to lower the density
Well yeah, running probably should work. Though you will need to run forever. Because it always will be behind you.

>>157661528
It's not about running
Just stretch the boundaries of the universe by fueling a massive explosion of spiral energy
Like another bigbang to make it all bigger

>>157652494
>They made up a limitation on the fly that contrasted with everything they'd shown so far (Spiral potential being limitless), hence it's hack writing.
Nigga watch the fucking show, and don't post here before lurking for two years

>>157657868
This. Kamina should have brought himself back to life to sock him

>>157660309
>bringing back the dead
Again with this shit?
You really can tell the anons who can or cannot think with their heads apart.

>>157661323
THAT's the spirit. Fuck the anti-spiral and fuck Simon for buying it without even fighting.

>>157643761
How do you get access to Internet?

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I mean, I think everyone is on the same page about Simon not bring back Nia after she dies. This debate seems to come from the interpretation that Simon had a choice in preventing her death, and not saving her was like a doctor not giving a dying patient the treatment he needs. Frankly, I don't think the writers seem to think of that as being an a possible application of Spiral Power, and I think their intention was that Nia was supposed to be fucked no matter what, with the only moral debate being about bringing her back. I don't recall Spiral Power being used to do anything other than make giant robots do crazy shit. Was Simon supposed to put his hand on her shoulder, shoot out a big ol' blast of green swirly energy, and say "You're cured!"?

>>157649106
>He became the bigger man. If he said fuck it and kept Nia alive somehow, it'd have proven the Antispiral right. The only way for them to win was to take the loss. That's essentially been their whole fight with the Antispiral, with Kittan's sacrifice, the Gurren team leaving the utopian dream, and so on. They're building something bigger than their selfish happiness and their individual lives.

>if you reject me then you have to reject my daughter too
Why would keeping Nia be alive prove anti-spiral to be right? They were too concerned about the wellbeing of the universe that they became retarded. Nia was lost because they had no way to save her.
Shimon didn't have to leave but that was what he decided to do in the end. He thought there wasn't any need for the fight anymore thus no need for him. The Rossiu goverment and the police dept that the twins were working in were doing a good work by themselves.

>>157664242
It's like people avoiding trolley dilemmas by saying "I'll just grab the guy and get him off the rails :^)"

>>157664242
They brought back Genome, if accidentally. They could do it to anybody if they willed it.

>>157664447
Only in an artificial universe where thought took form.

>>157664447
They dug up his head and zapped it until his brain started working again. Now that I think about it, could they even really bring Nia back in the first place? She became literally nothing. She was supposed to become literally nothing the instant the Antispiral was destroyed and was barely holding her existence together until the wedding. There's nothing to bring back. When Yoko said that Simon couldn't bring her back because he wasn't God, could she have meant he literally couldn't?

>>157664680
Simon's answer to Gimmy implied he could but "they'd get in the way"

>>157652126
It is no impossible to save her. The actual reason why they don't do this is the moral defeat of the antispiral. Spiral Power could save her but saving one would lead him to revive more people or at least called out to do that, thus bringing the spiral nemesis.
It's just that he can't make an exception for the "not fucking up the universe with spiral power rule", even if it's his girlfriend.

>>157664274
>>He became the bigger man. If he said fuck it and kept Nia alive somehow, it'd have proven the Antispiral right.
This doesn't make any sense. Might as well stop trying to cure illnesses or prevent death then if it "proves the antispiral right".

>>157664734
> Yeah I could resurrect our beloved comrades but they'd just get in the way so I can't.
It was a cover up for being scared of the spiral nemisis but fuck simon anyway.

>>157665000
The "get in the way" thing is just another aspect of the moral problem.

>>157664997
Medications usually don't have the secondary effect of ending the universe in a giant explosion

>>157665073
>Medications usually don't have the secondary effect of ending the universe in a giant explosion

Neither does curing a single person of an absolutely unique condition. It's not like Nia was dying of illness or old age, it was space magic.
Just use space magic to cure her the same way.

>>157665128
Space magic has the secondary effect of ending the universe in a giant explosion.

>>157665163
Only overuse of it, and again, "unique condition" is a keyword.

It's not like it would ever repeat again, so no bad precedent or any of that bullshit to be set.

Let's face it it was just a retarded loophole in logic for the sake of cheap drama ending.

>>157665200
"it's a unique condition, we're only doing it this time because it's space spiral cancer"
"it's a unique condition, we're only doing it this time because they died fighting antispirals, we might as well bring them back along with Nia since we're doing it one time"
"it's a unique condition, these people died unjustly and their lives are worth really much, if they die more people will go with them"
"it's a unique condition, this guy had an unknown illness and did soo much for our people"

"it's a unique condition, these assholes at our door want war, we're only using Spiral power to annihilate them once and for all so the universe can be free of their tyranny don't worry"
"we're building this space nuke because we don't have a choice"
"looks like the antispiral was right after all"

>>157655889
He probably didn't get spiral power
The other's powers managed to reach him or something. Kinda like he can reveive it but cannot generate it himself.

>>157665347
Yes to the first, no to the others. Easy.

To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it, Simon couldn't do that and lost everything.

>>157665418
>To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it
Ok. I'm done.

>>157665450
Buh-bye!

>>157665163
It was just for the drama
The real Simon would save her and still prevent the Spiral Nemesis as well.
In the end he did give up into his fate by letting her die and leaving afterwards.

>>157649415
Shingeki no kyojin is implying it.

>>157665418
>>157665623
Just let it go, I loved Nia too

>>157665623
>The real Simon would save her and still prevent the Spiral Nemesis as well.
Oh god this. A million times this.

>>157649390
They did not in this instance

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you retards missed the point of the ending.

Yoko says Simon isn't god, because he's not, and he shouldn't be.

The whole ending is that despite everything, sometimes you need to let go, people who die should stay dead. Would they really want to be brought back?

Every single person who died in TTGL was content with dying, bringing them back would have made their deaths meaningless not just to the viewers but to the characters themselves.

Then you have Simon becoming a hermit because he's not cut out for government shit and not using his spiral power is the best course of action until they find out a way to prevent the spiral nemesis.

The ending is meant to be bittersweet for a reason. I can guarantee if they brought back Nia and the others you fucks would complain that they deus ex machina'd them back to life and how it's hack writing.

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>>157665959
We all understand the point of the ending, we just don't buy it.
Some people eat whatever the writers throw at them, some use their own brains:
>cure her before she dies
>problem solved

And whenever people like you repeat this nauseating "resurrecting the dead is bad" I can just tell you belong to the first group.

>>157665418
>To believe in an ideal is to be willing to betray it
That's a quote from a crazy nutjob who is obsessed with "muh betrayal". Even in that context it was meant to display the derangement of her. It doesn't actually make sense. It sounds cool, but it's bullshit. It negates the logical relation between having a belief and upholding it. The sentence is meant to absolve the betraying person. Anyone not in their shoes sees that they, the betrayers, are in deep shit and won't get out. The quote is the ultimate hypocrisy of a person who pretends to believe in that ideal.
I don't dislike her. It' just that you're not meant to see her as a sane person who speaks wisdom at that point.

The quote demonstrates the deep distorted understanding of one's self esteem, consequence of actions, and the relation with their community. It's utterly incompatible with Simon in his situation.

>>157666605
Not that guy but actually makes lots of sense. To believe in something is to be willing to make exceptions, if you can't do that you're not really believing but more of a slave to it.

>>157666692
No, it's not. 'Making exceptions' the excuse for people who do not actually believe but try to fit in with the relatively perceived craziness of people who do. It's the coping strategy of thinking people who do not need beliefs, but who see themselves surrounded by people who actually do. If one sect believes in paradise for everyone after their own immediate suicide, the thinking person is the one who makes the exception.

>I don't count. It doesn't matter if I do it as well. I do believe in paradise for all, but my personal death wouldn't matter.
It's that sort of thing. It's 'not being a zealot'.

My example is extreme, but the principle applies to all sort of beliefs, religious or not. Believing in something IS being a slave to it. One who believes is willing to throw reason and rationality away in favor for that belief. That is actual subjugation. Willingly and intentional. You don't have power over things you believe in. They have power over you. What else than 'being a slave to it' is that?

>>157666692
Arbitrarily throwing in a negative word like "slave" doesn't make it any less dumb.

>>157666235
When has an anime ever killed off a character then have the fans accept them being magically brought back to life?

It kills the impact of the death. Nowhere in TTGL does it imply that spiral power can cure anything, especially Nia fucking disappearing. It's implied she can be brought back, yes, but not explicitly stated and is likely still impossible within the boundaries of the series.

>>157667221
Dude I understand your interpretation but simply don't buy it. This >>157666692 is how it goes to me.

If I believe in something then I must be able to make exceptions, if I don't I'm a tool, a pawn, a puppet, a slave, not a believer.

>>157667278
Likewise, arbitrarily calling it dumb doesn't make it so.

>>157649673
> not letting her stay alive a bit longer so she and Simon can fuck everyday until her death on the wedding.

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>>157667315
>Nowhere in TTGL does it imply that spiral power can cure anything, especially Nia fucking disappearing
>Lord Genome gets an entire body of flesh
>that stupid hamster super-evolves into a sentient human-like being
>creating galaxy-sized titans out of thin air

Guess we didn't watch the same show, or one of us had their eyes open.
And before you quote the whole "universe where thought materializes", yes, sure, but that only made it EASIER to do by one single person, nowhere is it stated that you couldn't do the same given enough Spiral Power.

Gurren lagann season 2 when?
Simon and Viral are still alive.

ttgl is just a getter robo ripoff

musashi did it decades before

The spiral nemesis isn't even explicitly explained; it's just "a bunch of spiral energy is used and the universe explodes." Moreover, using spiral energy to prevent Nia's death is in no way "abuse." Hell, there's actually an extremely close real life analogy-- nuclear power. It's used in bombs that can potentially wipe out the human race, and it's also used to treat cancer.

>>157667221
>You don't have power over things you believe in. They have power over you. What else than 'being a slave to it' is that?
Guess that's how Jedi and Sith failed and failed and failed over the millennia.

>>157667431
'Beliefs' exist to create absolutes and certainties. Making exceptions is a product of questioning those certainties. It's not the questioning itself, but the result. At that point you're already beyond having doubts, and you're unbelieving enough to go through with 'exceptions'. Making exceptions is going against it. It's 'belief light'. Good enough to fit in, but not honest.

>If I believe in something then I must be able to make exceptions, if I don't I'm a tool, a pawn, a puppet, a slave, not a believer.
Let me make another example. Let's pretend we believe that
>in 30 days the world will end.
Actually believing that would affect us deeply. Remember, we can't doubt. We actually believe. It would dictate our lives. We would let it dictate our lives. We would be slaves to it. Everything we do would be in reaction to this.

Okay, now let's adapt it. Let's say everyone else around us believes in that, but we're not so sure. All others freak out and adapt their "remaining" life. We however, are much more chill, after all, it could be wrong, right? But if we don't want to isolate ourselves, we would have to pretend to be worried, else everyone else would notice and consider us odd. By making exceptions, we're not slaves to it, but we do not actually believe either.

>>157668161
I have high hopes for the next movie.

>>157663795
Free wifi is everywhere my man, and if I get banned from a site on one location I just find somewhere else, because I'm not tied down by any permanent residence.

>>157668319
I can believe the world will end in 30 days and still help someone for something that will happen on the 31.

>>157668446
If you actually believed, it would be irrational for you to do so. An action that would not make sense for you, as there's no world on the 31st. For a believer, having another 31st is impossible.

>>157668895
Believing in an ideal is different than blindly believing an assumed truth.
There are many types of beliefs and not all involve blind zealotry.

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post more Yoko

>>157668895
By your logic, anyone of scientific mind would be beliefless, as anything quantifiable inherently has a variable measure of uncertainty.

>>157669638
science is highly dogmatic, though.
It asserts that the scientific method is infallible.

>>157669785
>It asserts that the scientific method is infallible
But that's fucking wrong. It asserts that you can't prove any theory, you can only demonstrate it to be false, and that the most reproducible result is the one closest to truth.

>>157669638
>>157669785
>>157670046
Actually someone truly scientific knows that everything is just assumptions and guesswork because nothing is predicted 100%.

>>157661433
I watched the first episode not long after it aired, didn't like it and dropped it. Only to pick it up a year or 2 later and immediately fall in love with it, its in my top 5 for sure. Don't know what the fuck I was thinking.

>>157653590
>hf shirou
>sacrifices the world just for a wormslut
>hero shirou
>sacrifices everything to serve the world
>selfish

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>>157642157

>>157670104
Yes. One achieves something next to certainty, but it's not truly certain, as nothing really could be. It's good enough though.

>>157669372
My point is that the purpose of beliefs is to gain a sense of certainty. This is inherent to all types of beliefs. It's what believing is about.

If you believe in an ideal, you make it certain. It most certainly does not exist for real. But that doesn't matter to you. You pull it into existence. You don't question it. All ideals are constructs of our own minds. In that regard, it's comparable to any type of belief. And yes, blindly believing is believing. You don't need to open your eyes to believe. In fact, you shouldn't. Actually looking at ideals is a good way to dissolve them.

>>157669372
>>157670799
I want to add that I'll be going to sleep now. I probably won't be able to reply in time. But please elaborate what types of beliefs there are. I'm really curious about your reply. From my point of view, 'zealots' are people who don't pretend and actually believe.

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>>157661523

Wouldn't bringing Nia back go against exactly what Simon promised the Anti Spiral he wouldn't do?

Plus wouldn't it also go against GL's message of moving forward?

>>157671653
As established previously in the thread, Nia wasn't dead yet, and if saving her constitutes, abuse of spiral power, then modern medicine constitutes as abuse of biochemistry.

>>157671653

yes and yes

>>157671653
The GL's message was also about fighting overwhelming odds and doing the impossible, yet they failed in the end.

>>157671653
>let's not save anyone ever because that goes against "moving forward", somehow

'k

>>157668160
Your thesis is the equivalent of using the radiation of a supernovae to cure one patient with cancer. It's possible but it's obvious that you really shouldn't do that.

>>157671973
>yet they failed in the end

No they didn't. They quite literally did that.

>>157671577
Where is this from?

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>>157672128
the movies.
they also had the ultimate version of gurren lagann

>>157669523
Noice

>>157672099
Did they do the impossible? No.
Fail.

>>157672029
What bs example.

>>157673007
choosing not to do something possible != failing to do the impossible

>>157673040
That's what it is, though. Spiral power is the equivalent of nukes that also blow up the universe in addition to the Earth. Would you blow up a single nuke somewhere unhabited to save a patient with the radiations?

Not that the discussion is open, since Simon CAN'T "maintain Nia alive". It's never said he could and heavily implied he couldn't. He can't.

>>157666692
>To believe in something is to be willing to make exceptions
Let me guess. You're a woman or a guy (female).

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>>157673327
>Let me guess. You're a woman or a guy (female).

>>157673475
Women are the ones always making exceptions to their beliefs
>Y-yeh! I'm a virgin. Oh, that time with that guy? Doesn't count, it was anal. Oh, that other time with the other guy? Doesn't count, I was drunk. Oh, that time.......

>>157647286
He could have literally married Yoko after a couple of years. He liked her first, remember.

>>157673184
They failed in saving Nia while still preventing the Spiral Nemesis.
It's a fail no matter how you slice it and goes against the mentality they'd shown up until there.

>>157673250
You can use Spiral Power for minor things too, your example is just bs. Just because it has the potential to be a nuke doesn't mean that it always is, in fact we've been shown plenty that it isn't. Try again.

JUST WHO

>>157674059

But he didn't fail to save Nia.

>>157674095
>You can use Spiral Power for minor things too
Like?

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>>157674127

Fucking alternate universes man. I thought you were from Earth-1.

>>157674130
Remember then using Spiral Power destroyed the universe in season 1?
Oh right it didn't.

>>157674260
It eventually would have, according to the three most accomplished spiral energy users in the series.

>>157674326
Then stop implying using it would equate instant universal destruction. It sounds like bs.

>>157674356
Using a single nuke in a desert doesn't kill anyone either.

>>157653590
You are the one who gravely misunderstood HF if you think that.

>>157670123

Are you me?

>>157674410
Said usage is not like throwing a nuke so this example doesn't apply either.
Why you insist with it is beyond me, it's like saying that medicine should be banned because you could fill the world with Ebola.

>>157674190
>Nia is gone forever you can never restore her to the person she was
>Anti-Spiral Nia is being recalled to the Anti-Spiral universe, you will never be able to bring her back

>he does

>>157660103
Protecting your imouto is a more compelling reason to throw away your shitty ideals than a wormslut, that much is agreeable.

>>157675297
I really wanna live in your universe. In mine Nia dies without reason for some moral ground that made no sense.

>>157672029
No, it's like storing the radiation of a supernova and administering a small dose of it to cure a patient with cancer, and using the rest as the need arises. Simon isn't incontinent with his use of spiral energy, else he really would have destroyed galaxies.

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>>157668440
Living the life.

>>157642157
>this is started playing in my head when I saw the pic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6LFOIofRE

>>157676270
This. That example is so much bs.

File: Anti-Spiral.jpg (85KB, 600x338px) Image search: [Google]

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Anti-Spiral did nothing wrong. Just wanted prevent the Spiral nemesis.
>tfw No a proper movie about young Lord Genome or Viral against Spiral Nemesis

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Chirico

>>157676461
Pretty sure pic related lived with his hot GF.

>>157642157
>Simon the Cuck
>great
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>157651341
Get to the fucking point, fucking Jesus.

Simon became Obi-Wan Kenobi, essentially.

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>>157649611
>UBW
literally how more unselfish can you get, you mongoloid

>>157683022
Second season when?