Why is Madoka so popular?

>>157594089
Every pairing works.

Because it subverted the typical magical girl cliches and was a sad tragedy.

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>>157594105

Girls can't love fucking girls, faggot.

>>157594089
deconstruction

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>>157594089
Well written story and well developed characters by a well known director

>>157594089
People were tired of CGDCT

So they made CGDCT with some dramatic music in the background

No true anime enthusiast would consider MSMM a particularly notable or interesting work. Rather it is edgy pablum for millennials, jammed with all of the masochistic 20th century philosophy they so adore, its aesthetic tedious pseudo-dadaist drivel one would expect to find floating at the bottom of something designed by R.Mutt.

Each episode following Madoka and her pals from Mitakihara as they fight assorted witches is indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert. The so-called "suffering" of the protagonists is thrust upon them not for the sake of adventure or struggle, but rather for the lurid pornographic enjoyment of its viewership. If you enjoyed MSMM, you might as well delete all your anime and replace it with hardcore BDSM fetish pornography, because it is functionally identical and equally boring.

Because lesbians being miserable and getting fucked over by a alien cat thing

>>157594518
>Well written story
Except for the plot holes

>well developed characters
3/5 of main girls have very little development though

>well known director
99% of anime fans don't pay attention to directors

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>>157594617
>Except for the plot holes


Oh I'd love to hear what you think the plot holes in Madoka are.

>>157594675
inb4 hurr why didn't homura try x y z

>>157594713
Why not wish for elmo to sing his song to calm the witches.

>>157594713
>go back in time
>convince Sayaka to wish for what Madoka eventually did

Problems solved

>>157594553
What was this pasta originally about? The Beatles or Star Wars?

Either way, I'm gonna start using it in my shitposts.

>>157594932
Except that's canonically impossible because the only reason Madoka's wish was fulfilled was that she had accreted a preternatually large store of emotional energy from Homura's looping.

Try again.

No true anime enthusiast would consider Kinmoza a particularly notable or interesting work. Rather it is treacly pablum for millennials, jammed with all of the sedative 20th century philosophy they so adore, its aesthetic tedious pseudo-dadaist drivel one would expect to find floating at the bottom of something designed by Lisa Frank.

Each episode following Alice and her pals from England and Japan as they try to confess and then deny their sapphic feelings for each is indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the cute imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of yuri, all to make lesbianism boring, to make love seem inert. The so-called "romance" of the protagonists is thrust upon them not for the sake of adventure or struggle, but rather for the lurid pornographic enjoyment of its viewership. If you enjoyed Kinmoza, you might as well delete all your anime and replace it with any other yuri anime, because it is functionally identical and equally boring.

It's the Evangelion of anime.

It's been a long time since I watched this but aren't incubators the ones that grant wishes?

>>157594961
The fact that so many anime critics still name Madoka Magica as “the greatest or most significant or most influential” mahou shoujo ever only tells you how far anime still is from becoming a serious art. Western cartoon critics have long recognized that the greatest cartoons of all times are Bugs Bunny and Johnny Bravo, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Television critics rank the highly controversial Sopranos over classical shows who were highly popular in the tubes around the world. Anime critics are still blinded by commercial success. Madoka sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Cartoon critics grow up watching a lot of cartoons of the past, television critics grow up watching a lot of shows of the past. Anime critics are often totally ignorant of the anime of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that Madoka did anything worthy of being saved.

>>157595200
Yes

>>157594982
>the only reason Madoka's wish was fulfilled was that she had accreted a preternatually large store of emotional energy from Homura's looping.
Bullshit, it never says that

>>157595282
it quite explicitly does and is essential to understanding everything that happens in episode 12.

This is why /a/ should not try to talk about madoka.

>>157595282
Yes it does. Kyubey explains that because Homura turned back time over and over for the purpose of saving Madoka, it increased Madoka's karmic importance each time by converging her importance in each failed timeline onto the current timeline.

>>157595282
Madoka was paraded around by Kyubey as being extremely powerful all series. Her wish could only be done by her because of that fact.
Take it off 2x speed and actually pay attention to what you're watching.

>>157594089
Stole all the good parts from Ryuki

>>157595321
>>157595408
>>157595436
Madoka had extra power in her because of Homura's time travels, but it didn't make her able to wish for stronger wishes. It never says that

>>157595243
>Johnny Bravo among the greats
>not Rocky and Bullwinkle

Pleb.

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>>157595484
since I you're apparently too dumb to just rewatch the show yourself, I guess I will have to literally watch it for you.

>>157595321
>This is why /a/ should not try to talk about madoka.

It seems like there's always some boneheaded idiot who is incapable of understanding some obvious part of the plot and people end up replying over and over trying in vain to explain it. Today it's >>157595282 >>157595484

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>>157594553
Not bad.

>>157595658
it's the same thing with eva and a lot of other shows probably. /a/ is garbage.

>>157594165
It really wasn't a tragedy when none of the deaths happened at the end.

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I want to have sex with megucas
All of them
At same time
That's about it, I think.

>>157595763
The story has sad tragedies, although that doesn't have to mean the entire thing is a sad tragedy. The ending to the series is as hopeful as it could've been in fact.

>>157594089
Babby's first "dark" anime with a moe exterior.

>>157594089
Because it's great. Quick pacing, incredibly solid story structure, unique art, an amazing attention to detail QUALITY aside, and a story that both managed to keep you guessing week to week while also being really good on rewatch since the twists brought different perspectives.

Most of all though, it's the characters which really resonated with people. The amount of fan stuff the show spawned was unreal.

>>157595763
Sayaka still dies at the end of show, just in a better way. Of course the tragedy is really about Madoka and Homura.

>>157595617
I'm sorry for calling you dumb anon it's just that I'm very angry about madoka.

>>157594089
because AI YO

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>>157595478

this

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I fucking hate fate.
Why did the plot have to revolve around fate?
Who determines fate?
Why does being more important make you more powerful?
It seems so arbitrary.
It's just fucking retarded.
I have to engage in some major mental gymnastics in order to like the show as much as I do.
Maybe the incubators don't know shit about magic and is just making shit up.
Didn't they say the whole reason humans can do magic is because of their emotions?
They could have just said Madoka was so powerful because she feels the strongest emotions and thus has more powerful magic.
Or am I an idiot and that's exactly how it worked?

>>157595993
Madoka only was "fated" to be more powerful because of Homura's time fuckery. For whatever reason (because Homura's wish was centered around Madoka I think, been a while), Madoka gets the power and influence of all the time lines, so each time Homura went back Madoka became more powerful and more important. She didn't start that way, she was an average magic girl in the original time line

>>157595993
Perhaps it's your fate not to understand.

>>157595993
>Why did the plot have to revolve around fate?

It doesn't.

>Why does being more important make you more powerful?

It doesn't. Madoka was more powerful because her wish was catalyzed by a greater amount of emotional energy (namely, all the emotional energy which attached to her throughout Homura's looping).

>They could have just said Madoka was so powerful because she feels the strongest emotions and thus has more powerful magic.

Madoka's position as a karmic nexus entails her possession of supernaturally high amounts of magic-producing emotion because the "cause and effect" she determines is whether Homura continues to loop, and so all of Homura's emotions and the emotions of every other person effected by another loop can be used to catalyze Madoka's wish.

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>>157596204
this is really important to understand (and I have explained it to multiple people on /a/ multiple times this week already) because it's only by tapping into emotional energy from literally beyond space-time that defeating walpurgisnacht is possible.

>>157596284
"Emotional Energy" is one of the dumbest concepts ever invented and it shows up way too often in tons of media

>>157595993
If you can time travel, fate is not a factor.

>>157596403
I mean it's the central plot device of Madoka so if you don't like it's not surprising if you don't like the show.

>>157595993
"fate" is basically "impact"

>>157596403
The central idea of the show is that humans have souls and their emotions create energy.
I quite like it. Magic that comes from what you think and feel is more appealing to me than some resource that you can manipulate.

>>157596204
to clarify the last part of this post: madoka's wish used not only emotional energy from a potential future loop, but from all past loops, conveyed to her through Homura. This is what qb means when he calls her a "karmic nexus".

>>157595993
The best way to think of it is that it was Madoka's fate to beat Whargorbalnach because Homura wished for it to occur, albeit in slightly indirect manner. The wish eventually came true, as they all do

I share the opinion of many others in this subject: Madoka was popular because it was not like the rest.
I know, this opinion is a common place, it adds nothing new but is the truth.
Many people that would have never touched a mahou shoujo anime without a 5 ft stick wondered if Madoka was worth the try.
Most people that i know do not regret their choice.
And of course, placing it on a pedestal is completely wrong, it was good and popular but that does not mean it was flawless or brilliant.

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surprise! edgy teenage males like edgy shounenshit! even with the mahou shoujo mask.

>>157594165
>tragedy
you don't know what a tragedy is.

>>157594518
>well written well developed
the immortal time traveler who's too emotional to realize the ramifications of her powers? or the shoehorned """branching determinism"""? there's no such thing as a time travel story with no paradoxes(plot holes).

>>157594537
there isn't a single thing CGDCT about madoka. I don't think you know what the genre means. cute girls =/= cute girls doing cute things.

>>157594713
unironically this. homura is immortal. the story stops being interesting there. the only reason there is any story is because she's an illogical unreasonable stupid retard with emotional problems. re:zero suffers the same problem.

madoka is a 6/10 series. always has been, always will be. I like it even less because it's a perversion of the mahou shoujo genre(the pinnacle of anime).

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>>157596704
>I like it even less because it's a perversion of the mahou shoujo genre(the pinnacle of anime).

opinion discarded.

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>>157595975
>Fight to have your wish granted
>Your wish has been granted so you have to fight to pay for it
Because those two things are pretty much the same right?

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>>157596760
if you don't think mahou shoujo is the best genre it's because you are a beginner to mid-level anime enthusiast. it combines all of the best elements and shaves away all of the unnecessary ones.

grow up, anime baby.

>>157594537
>People were tired of CGDCT
in 2011?

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>>157596813
>if you don't think mahou shoujo is the best genre it's because you are a beginner to mid-level anime enthusiast.


hahahaha kill yourself nerd.

>>157596704
>she's an illogical unreasonable stupid retard with emotional problems
So she's a teenager.

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>>157596760
That guy's a faggot but you're also a faggot. Don't talk shit about mahou shoujo.

>>157596704
>madoka is a 6/10 series. always has been, always will be. I like it even less because it's a perversion of the mahou shoujo genre(the pinnacle of anime).

this will be good as copypasta.

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>>157596844
>it's okay if the character and the story sucks because she's a teenager!
there are nine year old characters who don't take shit from nobody.

>>157594089
Cutesey characters coupled with hardcore grimdark, angst and despair.

>>157596944
some would call Sakura a one dimensional caricature of an actual human girl but whatever floats your boat dweeb

>>157595321
>This is why /a/ should not try to talk about madoka
But the last Madoka thread we had was really nice.

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>>157594089
Suffering sells.

>>157597013
probably only because I wasn't there to yell at everyone.

>>157596944
>there are nine year old characters who don't take shit from nobody.

Sounds like some stupid fantasy shit that needs to be deconstruc-- oh wait.

>>157596944
A character not acting completely logically doesn't make the character suck.
What matters is that there are good in-story reasons for that character's actions.

>>157595975
>still posting this tepid bait
lel

>>157597013
Is it worth a thousand shitty threads for one nice one?

>>157596990
Did you mean to spell Sayaka?

>>157597113
there's enough reddit refugees that will reply to it that it's still effective

>>157597143
nope! Sayaka actually pays for her moral pretensions.

So this is what a normal Madoka thread is like? I was expecting this, but it still feels bad. I thought I'd found the last good fanbase on /a/ where people actually discussed shit.

>>157597186
It's normally much worse

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>>157596990
of course, and it's such a laughable claim that it doesn't merit anything but condescending chortles in response.

>calling one of the most subtly written female characters in anime """one dimensional"""
start insulting bach's music and van gogh's paintings while you're at it you desperate contrarian insect

>>157597186
>So this is what a normal Madoka thread is like?
no, this is still in the 90th+ percentile of madoka threads

>>157597186
No, this is still above par.

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>>157597186
haha wow how wrong you were.

>>157597013
We do get good threads sometimes. Sometimes.

>>157596944
The personal flaws are what makes Madoka's characters good, and gives characters more depth in general. I don't need to hear this stuff about a character being better because she doesn't make as many mistakes or has a less broken personal philosophy, we get enough of this nonsense from Shirou fans already.

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>>157597210
>calling one of the most subtly written female characters in anime

I'm fuckin laughing

go watch some more "pinnacle of anime" bud

>>157597098
yeah like having a literally infinite amount of time to figure out a problem or even transcend the issue as immortality has been achie--oh wait that's boring as fuck.

at least I finished madoka. steins and re:zero had me yawning so hard at the imaginary problems that I didn't make it to the last episodes.

>>157597186
He Who Must Not Be Named has still not shown up for some reason.

>>157597270
madoka is a good character. so is sayaka, the only truly well-written arc in the show. they are trapped in a bad anime ruined by an awful character(homura) whom the series hinges upon.

>>157597306
>yeah like having a literally infinite amount of time to figure out a problem or even transcend the issue as immortality
You just described Homura.

>>157597270
Speaking if, I keep on seeing comparisons between Characters from Fate and Madoka because the Butcher had a hand in both. Are those comparisons valid? Homura being a cross between Kiritsugu in that she's a no-nonsense pragmatist, with HF Shirou's single minded devotion for one person added into the mix.

>>157597306
Homura does not have an infinite amount of time to fix things. Every time she tries it makes things worse, it makes the karmic burden on Madoka greater and increases the separation between her and Madoka. She gives up at the end of episode 11 for a reason.

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>>157597341
>they are trapped in a bad anime ruined by an awful character(homura) whom the series hinges upon.

wow this is an unusually bad opinion.

>>157597186
What's there to discuss? This shitty franchise has been dead for 4 years.

>>157597375
Homura gives so few fucks.

>>157597186
The thread only truly goes to shit when the guy >>157597324 is referring to shows up.

>>157594089
The touhou of anime, characters so flat and 1 dimensional everyone's fanfic about them isn't contradicted.

>>157597404
They still discuss Eva, and that's been over for far longer.

>>157597415
Who is this mysterious shitposter? The last few threads have all touched on him. It's beginning to sound like the /a/ version of Walpurgisnacht.

>>157597306
repeating the same month isn't much for immortality, and she doesn't get to respawn if she dies or gives up.

>>157597359
yes, that was their point

>>157597363
Butcher wrote Zero, and the comparisons for that are probably pretty valid. Stay Night was written by Nasu, who is Urobuchi's friend.

>>157597359
you're not very clever, anon.

>>157597367
she's literally immortal.
>karmic burden
shoehorned plot device. yawn. she gives up because she's weak.
>giving up immortality
only a boring retard would do this

>>157597375
if you don't like subaru but like homura, you are a walking contradiction. they are the same character.

>>157597471
But said post was implying madoka was better than S;G or R:Z when they're all the same shit.

>>157597495
I didn't say anything about any other characters, just remarking on your incredibly bad opinions.

>giving up immortality
>only a boring retard would do this

hahaha how do you even breath

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By reading the comments I see we have a couple of tainted Soul Gem that need to be cleaned, here, use this grief seed and you will feel better.

>>157597471
immortality =/= invincibility. it's like I gotta teach a class here to get people up to my level of discussion...

she isn't repeating the same actions each month. nor does she necessarily have to turn back time at the end of the month. she could be working on becoming a scholarly sage master of humans instead of toying around with petty problems based on teenage emotional drama.

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>>157597528
>But said post was implying madoka was better than S;G or R:Z when they're all the same shit.

They're definitely not, I'd love to see you try and make a case for it though.

>>157597463
You'll know it when you see him. Best not to talk about it any longer.

>>157597570
I'd rather not converse with an autistic avatarfag. You're the one who ruined the suffering chart thread, aren't you?

>>157597541
whose ring is that

>>157597534
>y-you're opinions are bad! I don't have to explain why though!!
because you're scared I'll knock your toothpick-built foundation to the ground with intense prose.

am I supposed to feel suspense when a character can infinitely retry an action? am I supposed to feel pity or sorrowful for someone who's immortal? what a joke.

>>157597463
Here's a thread from last week

https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/156031431/

>>157597570
not him but
>emotional autistic retard achieves immortality
>uses it to try to save someone they care about
>fails repetitively
yawn

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>>157597611
You got me. I hope you'll spend a few more hours in this thread with me.

>>157597657
Yeah that's definitely an adequate summary of all three shows. Good job.

>>157597684
Yeah, I thought so too.

>>157597714
Yeah I know, else you wouldn't have posted it!

>>157597731
Glad we're all in agreement.

>>157597754
that you're fucking retarded?

>>157594089
>features cute girls
>appeals to plotfags
>appeals to sufferingfags
>appeals to deepfags
>appeals to artfags
>appeals to actionfags
>appeals to Shaftfags
>lots of big names in the production team

Anything I missed?

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>>157597541
WHAT DID YOU DO TO MAMI?!?!?

>>157597770
that kalafina

>>157597766
That's now how the spoiler function is meant to be used, you stupid madocuck.

>>157597731
he didn't post it. I'm elevated far above responding to petty hollow sarcasm with no linguistic flesh. you are a speck to me.

>>157597627
Woops, last month I mean.

>>157597797
I improvised just for you retard.

>>157597800
And yet here you are, responding.

>>157597306
>>157597528
Surprised to see some other anons that also hate timelooping shit. It still baffles me that I ended up loving Madoka in spite of it.

>>157597796
Appeals to OSTfags, got it.

>>157597856
Out of curiosity, why do you hate time looping?

The other anon's argument of "they're just immortal there's no stakes" is really silly, especially when in two of the cases they brought up, the characters easily could just die.

>>157598021
A good OST can be all the difference between a good series and a great one.

>>157598056
only an absolute moron would achieve timeloop-based immortality and not map out a non-dynamic environment during the length of their loop where they are physically safe.

seems like something homura would neglect, but that's just more shoehorned fake suspense from having a retard become immortal.

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post favourite doke tracks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cSgoCQR5Cw

>>157597554
>immortality =/= invincibility
in contrast to subaru and maybe okabe? (i haven't played/seen steins;gate) who come back from the dead

>>157597856
it worked well because the twist dramatically changed the context of the previous 9 episodes, instead of the entire show's premise being what-if scifi/fantasy adventures

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>>157596204
I'm arguing with my feelings here. I don't like how Madoka becomes more powerful because of Homura's time travel. It feels arbitrary, like it was written in purely to build tension. It doesn't fit in with emotion=magic. I don't really care about the exact mechanics, causality or karic density or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's the central idea that I do not like. I like the idea that Madoka is powerful purely because of her own emotions much better.
I love the show to death, and this really bothers me. I have my own little autistic headcanon that still lines up with the rest of the plot that keeps me sane.

>>157598128
You seem to be forgetting something incredibly important.
I'll let you try to figure it out.

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>>157598128
>only an absolute moron would achieve timeloop-based immortality and not map out a non-dynamic environment during the length of their loop where they are physically safe.

love 2 loop backwards doing the geometrically same thing I did last time for eternity.

>>157598170
the subject is "homura". contrasting that with subaru's invincibility is an abstraction you can practice irrelevantly but it doesn't make homura any less immortal.

>>157595282
You're a fucking idiot, Kyubey goes on a whole tirade about how a magical girl's wish capability is directly in tandem with their karmic potential, and that Madoka's karmic potentially is literally the greatest that has ever existed because of Homura's meddling.

>>157598197
I mean, they are Madoka's emotions to the extent that she empathizes with Homura and all of the loops that Homura underwent, which is implied to be absolutely.

>>157598170
Okabe does not come back from the dead. Once he dies, it is game over.

Since you haven't seen/played S;G, just drop it from the conversation. It's not going to help your case here.

>>157598128
>having a retard become immortal.
lelouch vs kira in a timeloop anime when

>>157598128
Homura is dead if anything happens to her soul gem. She must keep her soul gem within 100 meters of her body at all times. Her soul gem will decay over time passively, and more quickly as she uses magic. She's not immortal.

>>157598257
Here's the thing: everything QB explains about Madoka's position in the universe is something that Madoka understands just from understanding what Homura went through - it is precisely the fact that she understands it which is allows her to use her position to make a spacetime-transcending wish.

>>157598216
keyword "environment", not sequence of events.

I feel like I'm talking to high schoolers

>>157598206
you're scared to bring it up because you know I will destroy your argument and you will feel pain via the cognitive dissonance that gets piled on your weak mind.

if you won't share your argument, it's either because it's weak or you don't have one.

>>157598301
her soul gem is as rechargeable as a cell phone battery, pseud.

>>157598289
i only mentioned s;g because another anon did. the premise is different enough from re:zero it is worth mentioning

>>157598257
It should have been 100% her own feelings that made her powerful. Her hope to make the world a better place, her hope to become someone that makes a positive impact on others, her sadness at Sayaka's death, her sympathy for Homura. None of the karmic density bullshit.

>>157598309
think of Madoka's "karmic destiny" as the objective description of her subjective reality - and it is that subjective reality (her emotions) which catalyze the wish.

>>157598315
>I feel like I'm talking to high schoolers

Anon, I think that's because you're very dumb. Maintaining a "non-dynamic environment" requires maintaining an identical series of events as your last loop by definition. If there is a different event, then your environment has changed, and is not "non-dynamic".

Why are you even in this thread when you 1. don't like Madoka and 2. are too stupid to criticize it coherently?

>>157598336
And approximately equally breakable. Also complicated by the fact that recharging requires live fire combat.

>>157598336
It's stated in the series that the transference of magical energy from a grief seed is inefficient. If you're referring to her ability to reset it with time magic, that's not relevant to her supposed "immortality" because it can still be depleted before she resets (as was about to happen in episode 12). "pseud".

>>157598403
you do not know what the word "dynamic" means vs static. you can do different things within a static environment and that environment will not become dynamic unless you change environments. your actions are not equal to your environment. you should feel embarrassed at your ironic condescending remarks.

I'm here because madoka is overrated filth and /a/ is my home. I'm cleaning.

>>157598197
>>157598350
hope and good intention are useless if you're not in a place to affect other people

magical power is a function of what you want to do (your choice) + what you're in the position to do (things beyond your control)

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>>157598481
You should feel embarrassed at not understanding that an environment is the set of the objects and actions within it and that a different action definitionally produces a different environment.

>I'm here because madoka is overrated filth and /a/ is my home.

This is really sad. You should probably shove a knife through your throat.

>>157598448
pretty easy when you can just go back in time and do the same fight over again the same way. I am speaking with worms...

>>157598464
so if she's stupid she can fuck up her immortality? wow! what a surprise! and it's exactly what happened! wait a second, isn't that exactly what I've been talking about?

what a shit character and a shit premise.

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Because of the feels, look at those happy girls just smiling because they are in the company of each other, doesn't it make you feel sad?

its really cute

>>157598350
The point of the karmic destiny bullshit is to vindicate Homura's struggle. PMMM is secretly Homura's story, not Madoka's.

>>157598528
>pretty easy when you can just go back in time and do the same fight over again the same way
Worked real well for Walpurgisnacht, huh?

>>157598533
Homura doesn't deserve that cheek rub.

>>157597528
This is the suffering chart thread discussion all over again
when will the pain end

>>157598558
>secretly
blatantly, the OP is from her perspective even

>>157598528
>so if she's stupid she can fuck up her immortality?

Or if her magic gets drained because something bad happens. You're too dumb for a magical girl show, congratulations.

>>157598558
It's a plot device to build tension.

>>157598527
>redefining the word "environment" from the dictionary definition to suit your argument after getting destroyed
only severely anally hemorrhaged people who no longer have an argument resort to semantics. yawn.

oh look and insults too. I wonder where the argument is with the semantical fallacy and butthurt slander removed...doesn't look like there is one.

>>157598609
Only if you're too dumb to understand it I guess.

>>157598495
So your position to be able to do something defines how powerful your magic is?
Does that mean if you become the president, your magic will be more powerful?

>>157598577
it did not have the immortal perception homura has, no way to compare them within this context. this is awful, is there anyone here who isn't terrible at presenting arguments? I'm starting to feel embarrassed myself for being here. I feel like a weightlifter punching children in the face.

>>157598601
>because something bad happens
I've already addressed this point >>157598128

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>>157598625

>redefining the word "environment" from the dictionary definition to suit your argument after getting destroyed
noun: environment; plural noun: environments; noun: the environment

1.the surroundings or conditions in which a person, animal, or plant lives or operates.

2. the natural world, as a whole or in a particular geographical area, especially as affected by
human activity.

Both of these change when a different action occurs within them. I don't know why you're trying so hard to pretend like you're capable of having a coherent thought, but you should stop before you hurt yourself.

>>157598586
The pain will never end

>>157598695
>I've already addressed this point

Yeah, and I've already explained to you why you actually didn't.

>>157598634
You said it yourself. The point is to justify Homura.

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I hope "mahou shoujo is the pinnacle of anime" sage will stay in this thread with me while I homupost.

Baby's first violent cartoon

>>157598697
>Both of these change when a different action occurs within them.
you added this to the definition to suit your argument. hence, semantical argument. I am yawning so hard.
>the surroundings or conditions in which a person, animal, or plant lives or operates.
>the surroundings or conditions
nothing about actions within the surroundings. you are shooting yourself in the foot by copypasting this here.

>>157598636
>Does that mean if you become the president, your magic will be more powerful?
yeah. it comes up a few times: qb states this early on, shows major historical figures in one of the flashbacks, and states he doesn't understand why madoka has such latent potential since she isn't a queen or something

>>157598733
with fallacious semantical arguments and insults? that's not how reality works.

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>>157598781

>>157598697
>Actions are the same thing as surroundings
How?

>>157598781
Homura is for suffering.

>>157598805
I'm beginning to hate this show now.

>>157598695
Perception doesn't mean shit when she lacks the means to actually eliminate the threat. She's have just as much luck trying to timeloop in order to stop a tsunami.

>>157598875
that's ok, you can join environment anon

>>157598887
>achieving immortality
>wasting it away trying to do something impossible
YAWN

not story-worthy.

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>>157598792
>you added this to the definition to suit your argument. hence, semantical argument.


Er, I don't know if you know this, but everything you do effects your surroundings and conditions, down to the air you breathe. Doing something different necessarily changes those conditions and therefore necessarily changes the environment.

>>157598823
They're fallacious if you're stupid and ineffectual, and insults if you're the one being described.

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>>157598854
They're not, they change your surroundings.

>>157598914
Then read a timeloop story with a sociopathic protagonist, you fucking edgelord.

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>>157598962

>>157598986
Are you saying Homura isn't a sociopath?

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>>157598805
But wait. An incubator asking you to make a contract and make a wish puts you in a position of power. Souldn't that make you more powerful?
checkmate madotards

>>157598914
It is explicitly stated in the show that she would turn into a witch the moment she gave up on trying to save Madoka. You're literally retarded.

>>157598934
desperate semantics. I'll even use your definition you brought here.

>"1.the surroundings or conditions in which a person, animal, or plant lives or operates."
>surroundings or conditions
>operates
keywords you should pay attention to. "operates" is held within contrast to "surroundings" within the definition. they hold separate meanings, and are separate things. combining them to suit your argument is semantical and fallacious.

>They're fallacious if you're stupid
a fallacious argument doesn't stop being logically invalid based on someone's intelligence.

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>>157599002
rank homuras: moemura, tenkousei, redribbons, I'm-in-my-own-soul, homulily, akuhomu

>>157599031
what? why? "just because?"

more shoehorned plot devices?

remind me again how this show is written well in any way whatsoever?

>>157599025
>But wait. An incubator asking you to make a contract and make a wish puts you in a position of power. Souldn't that make you more powerful?
So that's the reason witches are more powerfull than the original girl

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Because everyone loves faustian stories.

>>157598533
It makes me sad I'll never experience something like that.

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>>157599039
>"operates" is held within contrast to "surroundings" within the definition.

Thank you for reading the definition to me. I hope it has helped you understand that a person's actions effect those conditions.


>a fallacious argument doesn't stop being logically invalid based on someone's intelligence.

No, just whether you're forced to recognize an argument as "fallacious".

>>157599062
Homura made it her one purpose in life to save Madoka. If she gives up, it means she thinks she failed. That's why she would despair and become a witch.

>>157599084
being sayaka is suffering

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Did you guys know Mami means mommy and Bebe means baby?

>>157599084
poor sayaka

>>157599135
Mami's got the chest to be a mommy.

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>>157599123

>>157599062
>it's bad writing because I speedwatched it and didn't understand anything
Sorry but if you're looking to be spoonfed then try >>>/wsr/. I mean you're confirming you didn't read sentences very explicitly stated so there's no ambiguity or anything.

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>>157599053
or:

>>157599075
That is never said anywhere.

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>>157599228

>>157594089
cuz gay girls

>>157594089
That's a really good question, OP. I watched it and thought it was mediocre at best. It's heavily overrated.

>>157599123
>homura is a good character because she could accidentally die by making a mistake because static environments can't exist because I say so
I'm glad my arguments don't look like this when neutrally summarized

>>157599130
what if she developed a second purpose, had two purposes and did not give up on the first one but simply put it on the back burner to become an immortal sage?

Normies feel smart and subversive for liking it.

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>>157599274

>>157599203
straw man. I've seen it twice. don't worry though, I'm used to this level of argument in this thread already.

>>157599276
None of them are explicitly gay. In fact one of them we know is attracted to a man. There's actual Yuri shows if you want gay girls.

>>157599075
they're stated to have the same power (or at least cause as much destruction as they stopped before)

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>>157599285

>homura is a good character because she could accidentally die by making a mistake because static environments can't exist because I say so

That's not your argument or my response to it, but keep trying!

>>157599316
>now misusing "straw man" to seem intelligent
cute

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>>157599341

>>157599285
>I don't understand human psychology

>>157599324
>Homura takes over the universe out of love for Madoka
>not gay
Is it only gay if they lick each other's vaginas or something?

Why are you people arguing with an obvious troll?

Dude is moving goalposts every few posts when proven wrong with incontrovertible evidence.

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>>157599356
his whole project in this thread is to bumblingly attempt to make himself seem more intelligent than everyone who enjoys madoka. just let him work.

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>>157599417

>>157599395
Or if they kiss or show any actual attraction. So as of now, none of the Megucas are in fact actually gay. There's still boyfriends out there for all of them.

>>157599356
saying I speedwatched the show and am looking for a summary without evidence to try and discredit me is a textbook example of a straw man argument.

cognitive dissonance will likely prevent you from understanding you're wrong here, though, as it has already done consistently.

>>157599341
not an argument, just a basic contradiction. literally "n-nuh uh!!!" yawn.

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>>157599324
Homura is the only one who is actually gay and that can't be denied.

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>>157599455

>>157599389
>stupid characters are okay as plot devices because stupid people exist
doesn't make the show good.

>>157599414
point to me moving goalposts once and use quotations.

>>157599316
You clearly don't understand human behavioral patterns based on their experiences and emotional state, as evidenced by >>157599285

>>157599462
>non-familial love isn't attraction
Okay autist.

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>>157599463
>not an argument, just a basic contradiction. literally "n-nuh uh!!!" yawn.

It's just a basic contradiction because you were just basically wrong hahaha. Or were you hoping we'd banter with a list of informal fallacies I googled to talk about cartoons on 4chan for a bit?

>>157594089
>bow user
>lance user
>sword user
>gun user
>time mage

one of those is really out of place desunei

>no mace or staff user

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>>157599528

>>157599463
But you already confirmed ignorance of core plot points which were clearly explained, so all I'm doing is calling you out on that. Stay retarded kid.

>>157599525
Non-familial love doesn't need to be sexual or physical. They call each other best friends, and you can love your friends without wanting to have sexual encounters with them.

>>157599507
>it is impossible for humans to overcome their teenage-level emotional instincts
said no well-adjusted adult ever

>>157599528
there is nothing relevant to the argument in this post for me to respond to.

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>>157599556

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>>157594089
because it is a story only as long as it needs to be, with a memorable cast, and a great art style. Fuck every time i re watch this series i always end up catching something new. Like in the background of homuras room, you see pic related. It is ripped straight from the Faust play. and translates too


>From one make ten!

Let two go again,

Make three even,

You’re rich again.

Take away four!

From five and six,

So says the Witch,

Make seven and eight,

So it’s full weight:

And nine is one,

And ten is none.

This is the Witch’s one-times-one!

Now there are plenty of times where this happens through out the series but i never caught this one. I just love always seeing something new whenever i remind self on why homu is unequivocally the best girl.

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>>157599584
>there is nothing relevant to the argument in this post for me to respond to.

There isn't because the "argument" is over. I'm glad you haven't stopped posting though.

>>157599577
doesn't make your claims any less false and your argument any less of a straw man.

so far the only "core plot point" that's been brought up that apparently proves me wrong is "her one true desire!!!!1!", and my query as to a second budding of a desire is still open, and will probably remain that way as the best counter-argument thus far is an ad hominem about my understanding of human behavior.

>>157599581
Normally you wouldn't be so obsessed with your "friend" that you would overturn the universe to see them again and then keep them locked up under your control. Your argument only works if Rebellion didn't exist.

>>157599584
Homura was, at no point in her life, well-adjusted.

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>>157599633

>>157599655
Yeah the things that happened in the show actually didn't happen because you refuse to acknowledge it. Whatever you say kid.

>>157599675
She came closest during that first timeline when she had Madoka as her friend.

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>>157599685

>>157599543
Technically Homura is a shield user.

>>157599675
I'll say it again

>stupid characters are okay as plot devices because stupid people exist
doesn't make the show good.

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>>157599721

>>157599693
such as? what are you even talking about?

is this an even lazier straw man? "you're wrong because you refuse to acknowledge something I won't mention!!1!"

>>157599721
Why does everyone seem to think Homura will remain flat as a board even when she gets older? Do they assume that all of them except Mami will remain DFC?

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>>157599750

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>>157599791
I think it's probably just affection for the original design.

>>157599761
Such as the part where you asked to be spoonfed and I directed you to /wsr/. Is your short term memory really this pathetic?

>>157595484
What the fuck? It literally says because of the time stuff her wish can be granted

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>>157599675
that is why her character is so interesting. All the characters of the main cast have some form of flaw, madoka is too self sacrificial, sayaka a baka, mami emotionally unstable at the thought of loneliness, kyouko to hot headed, and homu is the most broken of all. So seeing her develop from moemura to the sexy danger is one of the best aspects of this series. Also homura was right. POST MORE HOMUHOMU

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>>157599829

>>157599829
The original design is them at the age of 14. None of them have started to grow yet. I think that was even lampshaded somewhere.

>>157599737
You're suggesting that not acting like a sociopath equates to being stupid.

>>157599084
Sayaka has the best costume

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>>157599859
oh boy I don't suppose you have a higher res version of that

>>157599847
what? how is that in any way me refusing to acknowledge something that happened in the show?

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>>157599899

>>157599891
I agree with this. Capes is too strong.

>>157599874
it's straw man hour now. quote me. or are you just making stuff up?

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>>157599891
You mean Homura. Nothing beats the pantyhose.

So is this normal? People arguing over the most piddling of details like it's a matter of life or death?

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>>157599931

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>>157597025
If that were true Mahoika would be an all time best seller.

>>157594089
Take everything from that "Naruto is an entry level anime of the worst kind" pasta, and replace "naruto" with "madoka". It's flashy and dresses itself up well with attempts at depth and meaning.

>>157599961
>expecting normal behavior
this might not be the right place for you

>>157598350
It is her emotions that made her powerful. She got her emotions from herself times infinity

>>157599911
Because the moment I refused to watch the anime for you and spoonfeed you screencaps where the plot is clearly laid out you started crying the new shiny term you learned on /v/ in a desperate bid to look less retarded.

You can sperg all you want but everyone who's actually watched the show knows you're wrong, and so I have no problem goading you into repeatedly confirming what a retard you are. Watch the show again or just go away.

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>>157599961
this is what madoka threads are all about.

also in-bed homu from rebellion is best design.

>>157600022
Then why didn't you post it?

>>157594089
It's fun despite its flaw. Rewatching it is not as good as watching it the first time.

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>>157600022


>>157599999
the truth is here ladies and gentlemen.

>>157600007
you still haven't told me which "core plot points" I'm refusing to acknowledge. you're just insulting me.

could it maybe be that there aren't any and you don't have an argument, and that's why you are relying on /v/ boogeyman straw mans and insults instead of using quotations and presenting valid points like someone who has an argument would do?

>>157599999
Quints of truth.

>>157599999
nice

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>>157600040
it's for special occasions

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>>157600098

>>157600134
That angry look is creepy as fuck.

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>>157600134
tag yourself I'm top center.

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>>157599791
The girls have no official breast sizes. They often range from flat to modest, with Mami always being watermelon sized. Homura seems to consistantly be the smallest.
If there were to be rankings, I think it would be this:
homura<madoka=kyouko<sayaka<<mami

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I want to make Mami a mommy!

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>>157600170

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>>157599999
Thank you, quintanon. I am satisfied.

>>157600171
They're all pretty young, barely even hit puberty. I know somewhere in one piece of media Sayaka was moaning about how deficient she was in the chest area, and told Homura she still had some growing to do.

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>>157600210

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>>157600198
Don't we all?

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>>157600245

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Whatever happened to stuff like this?

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>>157600271

>>157600274
All of the fun people left. Only autists of varying flavors are left in this fanbase. Including me.

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>>157600297
less quality in Rebellion/beginnings/eternal

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>>157600333

>>157600314
I still think legitimate discussion can be had, and these threads don't have to be full of autism and shitposting.

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>>157600363

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Homura is a good girl who deserves love and eternal salvation.

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Is there any madokafag alive?

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>>157600372
that's where you're wrong kiddo

>>157600396
Homura threw all that out. She doesn't even want salvation, she knows nemesis is waiting for her, and she can't even take comfort in her actions. But she accepts them, and carries on even when all that is left for her is despair.

What is her endgame for the long term? She knows sooner or later either Sayaka or Madoka herself will remember, and her dream world will come apart. What will she do then?

>>157600372
the thread about madoka before this one was great

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>>157600461

>>157600236
Girls start puberty around 8-12 and are sexually mature by 14. 14 is a good indicator of where they will end up. If they're still flat by then, they probably won't do much growing later. There's still always the possibility of late bloomers, though.
>>157600463
Keep fighting on. That's all she knows how to do.

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>>157600481
>What is her endgame for the long term? She knows sooner or later either Sayaka or Madoka herself will remember, and her dream world will come apart. What will she do then?

"Maybe destroy the world".

>>157600478
So that is the spirit we should be posting in. Ignoring autism and shitposters, or rising above their shit.

>>157600463
She threw all of that away for Madoka's sake. Her plan is to keep protecting Madoka like she always has.

That's why she deserves love.

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>>157600512

>>157600496
Fight on against who? Fight Madoka herself? As that seems the only logical ending. Does she want to fight madoka, lose and be punished for her sins?

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>>157600518
>Ignoring autism and shitposters, or rising above their shit.

but anon, those are just words for things you don't like. How are we to coordinate our dislikes?

>>157600540
She will fight Madoka, even though she doesn't want to. Madoka will forgive her, as is her nature, unless Homura does something atrocious like kill Sayaka.

>>157600518
I agree though this thread was doomed from the start (just like Homura's loops),"why is so popular?" it's an invitation for shitpost Im only here for the Homu art and occasional commentary

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>>157600540
>Does she want to fight madoka, lose and be punished for her sins?

The point of her rebellion was to reject the necessity of Madoka's wish by rejecting the system which necessitated it, wherein there is a set number of curses that need to be borne in the universe in witches. Homu is going to wait and see what happens and just make sure that nobody takes Madoka again.

>>157600562
I don't know.

>>157594089
Pretty coloured characters and made the masses feel smart.

>>157600611
>>157600579
Knowing the Butcher, Homura will cross the line so badly that Madoka rejects her for the very first time. Because suffering like that would please the Butcher.

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>>157600611
The curses reside in QB now, so why there are wraiths in post-Rebellion verse is mysterious: my guess is that they're just props, like they were within Homu's soulgem.

>>157600611
I loved the jpg, anon-kun.

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>>157600655
>Homura will cross the line so badly that Madoka rejects her for the very first time.

This sounds likely unless Madoka ever learns again about everything Homura has been through. Perhaps she will learn in akuhomu's dying moments for maximum tragedyporn.

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>>157600713

>>157600713
The true tragedy, that Homura will never win Madoka's affections.

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>>157600753

>>157600655
Wraiths are creatures that Madoka created to feed on human curses, right?
That must be the only explanation for their continued existence.
>>157600713
Madoka getting her powers back means getting all of her memories back. If Madoka would only reject Homura if she did something so bad that it would make all of Homura's past suffering irrelevant.

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>>157600770
or that she had them and it wasn't enough

>>157600814
That's actually more likely. Madoka's never shown as much interest in Homura as vice versa, either before or after godhood.

>>157600814
She had them until madoka died for the first time, then we all know what happened.

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>>157600793
Well they don't feed on human curses, they're manifestations of human curses. These curses used to be contained within the witch system - when it was gone, they were moved to wraiths. After rebellion, they were all moved into QB for maximum ironic punishment.

>Madoka getting her powers back means getting all of her memories back.

Right. Well considering it then, if godoka returns...I can't really imagine how she'd react to homu now. Homu's move was predicated on a certain logic about Madoka's wish (that she was tricked into making it by QB), so it depends on whether Madoka understands the motivation for Homu's actions and thinks it vindicates them.

>>157600858
I don't think Madoka cared for her that deeply even then, certainly not in the same way Homura has latched onto her.

>>157596403
Hey, if souls do exist, I think they would be electromagnetic in makeup.

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>>157600896
>Madoka's never shown as much interest in Homura as vice versa,

As much as I ship them, I don't think looking at their relationship as a comparison of romantic interest is the right way to go about it. I think Madoka reciprocated Homu's affection fully in certain moments (episode 12, the field in Rebellion), but obviously Homu has been through things she hasn't.

>>157596827
Azumanga Daioh was almost a decade old by then, and Lucky Star and K-On took the genre to critical mass.