Is One Piece's fruits the dumbest power system in shounen?

anything with chi

anything with friendship power

>>157005444
No.

Stands are.

>>157005444
Is there a semen logia?

>>157005487
>anything with friendship power
What series actually has this?

>>157005530
fairy tail

>>157005496
This. They are fun but dumb as fuck.

>every stand rule has been broken at one point or another
>abilities are forgotten and dropped on a whim with no in-universe explanation whatsoever (see GE reflection)
>requiem and BtD bullshit
>inconsistent abilities; Pucci just pulls abilities out of his ass, "Who shot Johnny?" makes no sense no matter how many times you read it

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>>157005444
The fact that its stupid is what makes it good.

In contrast, Haki was a terrible decision.

>>157005444
The concept is nice and it goes specially well with the goofiness of One Piece. They were mostly ruined by the grouping thing, haki and Oda's lack of creativity.

I really liked the first arcs when devil fruits were rare and had that "absurd" aspect, the idea of getting a completely ludicrous power and applying it was really engaging.

>>157005776
the only dumb thing about devil fruits i'd say are them being able to be transfused into inanimate objects

>>157005856
Grouping thing?

>>157005444
Maybe, but it fits the series.

>>157005878
That's the best part.

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Is it the gold standard?

I like it because it's fundamentally creative.
Anything can be a fruit power really and on top of that it can be creatively mastered which opens up additional uses, even for fruit powers that are completely shit.

It also randomizes the playing field in combat since no matter how prepared you are some chucklefuck with a broken fruit power can fuck you up out of nowhere.

At the same time it helps establish characters who don't rely on fruit powers as badasses.

It also speaks to the average reader who can identify with underdogs who got dealt a shit fruit power and managed to master it over time.

>>157005947
I meant logia, paramecia and zoan.

>>157005776
considering the likelihood of an increase in Logia abilities later in the series, Oda had 2 options when having the good guys facing them;

a) continually had these characters stumble upon the Logia's specific weaknesses by sheer dumb luck or coincidences, every. single. time. or...

b) introduce some BS that a majority of characters have access to, further devalue a Logia's usefulness.

(a) was interesting the first few times, but i reckon shits gonna get as tiring. (b) was the lesser of the 2 evils, unfortunately.

>>157006078
Wouldn't this all apply to quirks from BNHA?

>>157005444
Just the opposite. It focuses on atmosphere and storytelling instead of dumb shit like powerlevels. They are basically magic from most fairy tales.

>>157005776
Only armament haki is really dumb since it's boring and turns fights into my haki is bigger, err stronger.

>>157006151
No because the author picked the shittiest and most boring quirk for his Mary Sue MC

>>157006148
Not only that but you needed a way for characters without DFs to stay relevant. Especially someone like Shanks who otherwise has no right being that strong otherwise.

>>157006167
>Only armament haki is really dumb since it's boring and turns fights into my haki is bigger, err stronger.

Only a few fights have been like that thus far

>>157006277
>Only a few fights have been like that thus far
Sure but it's bound to affect more and more, which is pretty sad.

>>157006148
>a) continually had these characters stumble upon the Logia's specific weaknesses by sheer dumb luck or coincidences, every. single. time. or

Honestly, it's amazing that Luffy defeated two of the better Logia fruits in the series without Haki.

>>157006341
Only with characters who solely rely on it to fight. Otherwise it's still been more about creatively using your powers and fighting skillfully than its has been about pure power levels. Remember that Luffy just recently beat a guy by eating his power.

>>157005444
Fairy Tale's magic is worse. I hope it ends soon I'm sick of this ride.

>>157006148
A is by far the lesser of the two evils you retarded sperg. You don't have to stumble on a weakness, there are lots of ways it could be plot relevant or clever. And anyway, if you had to go with B, seastone is a much better option because its not some intrinsic powerlevel bullshit. Its a finite resource that would have to be used in an intelligent fashion.

>>157005444
At face value, yes, but as a gimmick it works better than it should simply because it's played straight, and it actually is less bullshit than training arcs where "the main protagonist must do X task shown to him by a mentor by facing death/pain or die/sudoku because bullshit reason to add artificial suspense."

Giving people magic fruits with powers that make no sense is actually more sensible than expecting somebody to "master" a technique which somehow made them any better a fighter overall barring actual practice and experience over a prolonged period.

The real asspull however is that it makes people unable to swim, which unfortunately doesn't really make any sense to add other than give an odd universal weakness.

>>157006277
>you needed a way for characters without DFs to stay relevant.

That's not true at all, Oda always matched "normal" humans against devil fruits just fine, the problem came with logia.

Not to mention the several different races in One Piece that are almost as good as devil fruits. Zoro is, apparently, a "normal" human and was able to lift buildings right at the start of the grand line.

>>157005444
One Piece had a great power system until Oda fucked it with haki.

>>157005679
>>157006407
>implying Fairy Tail isn't a shonen parody

>>157006414
Some fruits reall have no clear weakness thought like Kizaru's light. Plus Logia's in general needed a nerf because Paramecias generalyl make for more interesting fights

>>157006414
>Its a finite resource
Is it? There seems to be enough to coat the underside of every fucking marine ship out there.

>>157006442
>the problem came with logia.
More kairoseki weapons. Here. Fixed. It wasn't that hard.

>>157006167
>turns fights into my haki is bigger, err stronger
How many times has that happened? All I can think of is Sanji v Vergo (though that could have easily played out in the exact same way through Vergo just being stronger than Sanji) and Zoro v Pica (at the very end after lots of cat and mouse and Zoro's big strategy, where you could remove that aspect of the fight and it's exactly the same anyway).

>>157006435
>which unfortunately doesn't really make any sense
Devil Fruits were early established to be mythologically linked to a "Sea Devil" who robs you of your power of swimming, though thematically it fits because it was bad luck in maritime days to have someone who knew how to swim onboard.

>>157005878
A sword eating the elephant fruit is the best part of one piece, bar none.

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>>157005444
No, it makes sense, it has been creatively used, and until the New World where we got Fruit User overload it allowed for single individuals to be imposing just by saying they are a fruit user.

The current arc has so many fruit users I'm starting to care less about them. As a whole.

>>157006167
>armament haki is really dumb
Armament Haki would have been fine if it ONLY allowed people to touch true bodies. It's sole function should have been a none-too-transparent means to circumvent >>157006148 but instead Oda decided that it also needed to become the gold standard for how people fought in the new world. Making it a form of armor also could have been fine if it didn't come with the stipulation that you have to exceed your opponents Haki to break their guard. But that was an inevitable trait since this is shounen.

>>157005444

Definitely.

>>157006414
I'm curious how light for one works. It's possible to think of some for magma, fire & ice but light?

>>157006516
Haki was needed to provide an explanation for how a one armed man could hold his own as a Yonkou with a crew of what appears to be no DF users.

>>157005444
Depends on what you mean by 'dumb'. Most powers with loose or nonexistent rules tend to be dumber but also more creative.

The Devil Fruits are pretty dumb because of the bizarre categories they fall into. You can get a great one like magma or a shit one like rubber. But its this difference that makes them cool. In a way they're a lot like JoJo Stands, whether you have a good one or a shitty one, what matters is how you use it. Bizarre and otherwise shitty powers being used in creative ways will always be more entertaining.

So yes, One Piece's Devil Fruits are probably some of the dumbest in history, especially the animal ones. But it's important to remember that this doesn't make them bad. Dumb powers are usually the best when it comes to fiction, after all.

>>157006516
If armament was only anti-DF, it'd be too situational. DFs are in-universe supposed to be rare & especially Logia types.

>>157006487
An appropriately used kairoseki weapon shuts down a DF-using opponent immediately, and ends the fight dead right there. Introducing dumb powerlevel shit is much better than having every fight turn into, "Whoever lands the first hit wins."

>>157006556
Mirror hag or the diamond guy from the whitebeard pirates might work.

>>157006594
Thing about many of the stronger DFs is that their attacks tend to be rather standard. Fire fist, ice sword, light kick, magma punch, etc. The weaker kind actually have to think about how to creatively use their powers like Luffy's gears.

>>157006575
>Haki was needed to provide an explanation
Bullshit and your lack of imagination is showing. Did we need an explaination as to why Garp was the strongest normal human in the marines? No. We accepted that he was built on pure grit and capable of taking down pretty much anyone by casually chucking canon balls at them.

Shanks being some one-armed badass just put him on the Martial skills track like Zoro. A user of powerful non-fruit skills that helped elevate him above the average and above-average pirates.

This is the problem I have with Haki. Now that it's been introduced, you have to have characters use it to be considered relevant.

>>157006609
>it'd be too situational
But by making it so universal it makes anyone who hasn't learned it a load on the crew unless their name is Brooks.

>>157006609
>>157006516
I still think they should just have used seastone weapons. Its like when you go up against a ghost in an RPG and its completely immune to all physical attacks except silver items. You always have to make sure to carry a silver dagger on you at all times. IT would allow for more interest fight mechanics because its disarmable, or could be installed as a trap, etc.

>>157006502
Every fight with Law had elements of it too.

>>157006516
Yeah exactly.

>>157006575
Same way Mihawk did. Speed and skill. Besides the one armed drunk man had the power to knock out people too.

>>157006609
But it'd still make sense, hearing the voice of all things should make you be able to touch them.

>>157006661
>But by making it so universal it makes anyone who hasn't learned it a load on the crew unless their name is Brooks
Not really. One Piece was filled with characters who've managed attacks without Haki who'd heavily injure strong foes. Whitebeard's earthquakes weren't haki infused. Garp doesn't need Haki half the time.

>>157006664
Seastone seals them off as long as its in contact. Hypothetical bullets with a tiny bit would be overkill as surgery may be needed to remove it.

>>157006675
>hearing the voice of all things should make you be able to touch them
Super speed doesn't automatically mean super reflexes. Secondary powers don't come instantly.

>>157006880
So basically like Coby. While stronger characters obviously got both. Another issue with armament haki are the boring visuals. It was a mistake.

>>157005444
Yes, but I think is meant to be that way.

>>157006740
>One Piece was filled with characters
The operative word here is "was". It's not like Oda has forgotten how to make fights with weird matchups, but it's shifting in that direction. Remember that sniper dude on Blackbeards Crew? We all just assumed that he was a great shot and maybe had a scope. Before Haki Usopp would have had to develop some means to see that far either with his already good eyesight, or with another telescopic lense on his headgear. Now it will probably be revealed that he also uses Haki to 360 no-scope seagulls.

Current One Piece also gave Usopp yet another expression of Observation haki so he can accomplish just that. But why couldn't Oda have just let Usopp make the shot based of the same calculations he was muttering to himself?He can see the window he has to make, he knows his opponents habits, height, and relative distance. Why couldn't his prowess and years of experience making impossible shots been what carried him through that shot and let him know where his opponent would be?

Because Oda is giving Haki to people to make sure they still stack up with the rest of the world of One Piece. Sanji gets Observation Haki as well and I assume it's for similar reasons, to keep his combat presence relevant in the coming arcs.

I guarantee after Whole Cake, Brooks is going to go back to being the designated babysitter for the non-combatants once his positive matchup against Big Mom's souls is gone from the story.

>eat a pineapple
>get magic powers

it is a pretty silly system.

>>157006078
amen

>>157006151
I don't like Quirks as much since you are born with it, in One Piece you can search for a devilfruit one way or the other.
Also it seems like they are the most important thing in BnHA while in One Piece you don't really need a devil fruit to be top tier.

>>157007619
>Also it seems like they are the most important thing in BnHA while in One Piece you don't really need a devil fruit to be top tier.
Well BnHA is a show about superheroes and their super powers so they're going to have a spotlight but it's not all about that. Deku doesn't use his and it's all about how he has to solve that problem and take risks accordingly.

>>157007712
>Deku doesn't use his
wut

>>157007222
devil fruits taste like shit unlike pineapples

The only fruits power i want is the snow fruit of momnet or akoijis ice fruit.

Nope, Haki is garbage though.

>>157007802
>unlike pineapple

and that's where you're wrong

>>157006675
explain how speed and skill helps you against lava or lightning.

It's not as dumb as a vampiric slutty schoolgirl uniform your dad made.

>>157008104
>He hasn't perfected dodging 200 lightning strikes in a row
>He's never mastered the art of avoiding stepping on lava, given all of childhood to practice it

>>157007064
>Why couldn't his prowess and years of experience making impossible shots been what carried him through that shot and let him know where his opponent would be?
I think you're misreading that scene, and Haki in general. Haki isn't the gamechanger that makes everyone's efforts fall apart, Haki is the edge gained by honing all those skills to the extent they have. Just knowing where she was was/would be was the advantage of Usopp's Haki, he STILL needed to make a fucking AMAZING shot. Haki is just the new territory that makes what was once impossible into improbably difficult. Like Bege says, anyone can change the future, and Haki is just an edge. Haki is also clearly not what everyone is using, since fuck, all dose Fruit users on Big Mam's crew, and Kaido's SMILE army. Haki is just another tool.

>>157008104
>explain how speed and skill helps you against lava or lightning.
Haki predicting the attack plus speed and reflexes can make dodging/countering at least an outside possibility. Skill could be something like Logias manifesting holes in them to dodge Haki strikes as well. There's plenty of creativity to be milked from it and Oda's only used "better Haki" with two instances, one hype moment for Law and one for Zoro, whose entire fucking fight arcs have been "HOW IS HE SO STRONG."

>>157008169
Lava is hot enough to kill you just by heating the air around it within a second, you dumb fuck. You can't actually fight a lava person unless you have some form of not!magical protection.

>>157006575
>with a crew of what appears to be no DF users.
you base this on what exactly lol

>>157008104
Assuming you can touch the person with the power to hear the voice of all things and given that they have "fiction lava/lightning" properties, it's not a biggie. It's cutting without cutting all over again.

>>157008251
Real lava. Even fooder were fine close to Akainu or when it rained meteors. Enels attacks that crushed a fucking island were survived by weak characters too.

Fairy Tail has the dumbest power system by far.

Everyone's magic ability and limitations are completely incongruous with one another. Characters get powerups either completely unexplained or pulled out of the author's ass like during the tournament where everyone got a timskip but-not-really and found a secret secondary source of magic within them that was never even mentioned before.

Not to mention they can't decide how strong the dragon slayers are meant to be. God slaying magic was a completely pointless introduction.

Also, everything about Erza.

>>157008341
Fairy Tail doesn't actually have a system. Everything essentially just works on "it's magic, I don't have to explain shit" but they have a 7-year-old on staff to label things anyway.

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Haki is good and the only reason you need to prove it is this guy right here.

Without it he wouldn't even exist. With haki, a completely useless power became one of the most threatening ones.

Shounen powerlevels that make no sense are the ultimate form of shounen powerlevels. Power is dictated entirely by the Rule of Cool and by the wielder's GUTS. 9 out of 10 Kubos agree Fairy Tail's system just works.

>>157008265
so asspulls, got it. you can cut lava but it wouldn't make a difference just like luffy's punches couldn't do anything to sand.
there is literally nothing wrong with haki in the context of the series.

>>157008428
Practically every fighting shonen with supernatural elements technically has a power system. I don't think Fairy Tail is an exception.

Magic can be exhausted, and characters can have varying degrees of it. There are different schools of it. It's not really a whole lot different than, say, Naruto.

The fact that people don't think it's a power system should be a testament to how fucking god awful the series is as a whole. Mashima could have tried putting more laws and limits around it to make it more interesting, but he's simply not that imaginative.

>>157008511
It has a system in so much as they say things have functions, but rules are thrown away and disregarded with wanton abandon. "Oh no, Natsu is out of magic!" and a moment later he pulls six techniques out his ass. "Oh no, everyone's out of magic!" "It's okay, just use tomorrow's share!"

That's the problem. The difference between science and magic is twofold. Magic isn't real, so it can do whatever you want, but because of that you have to be consistent or it's bad writing.

>>157006078
How horrifying must it be in the OP world to just think "shit is this fruit gonna turn me into some freak that can't swim?"

Stands in jojo > Devil fruit in One piece = Quirks in my hero acadamia > Spellbooks in Gash Bell = Famliars in Shaman King > Alchemy in FMA = Ki in Yu Yu Hakusho > Chakra in Naruto = Whatever the fuck the shit in bleach is called > Ki in Dragon Ball, Cosmo in Saint Seiya = Ripple in Jojo

The further down you go, the less specific the powers are per user, the more powerscaling and powerlevels become a problem.

>>157008585
Exactly. Personally this is why I think HxH has the best out of any series hands down.

Occasional asspulls aside, it's a system where basically powers have endless possibilities, but users are bound to extreme restrictions, scaling with the respective power of the skill. Each character's limits are ever present, and it gives them a real and tangible thing to practice and work towards perfecting. Without all those restrictions it would be a complete clownshow.

Like I think the best explanation in the series came from when Kurapika was learning nen, and his teacher was explaining how it makes more sense to use a real sword than conjuring one. There doesn't exist a sword that's unbreakable, so anything you make can also break, and it would make more sense just to reinforce a real sword that would be just as strong.

Meanwhile Ezra pulls out a Final Fantasy armory out of her underwear whenever the plot demands it.

>>157008646
Many of the people think the benefits outweigh the cost, especially if the fruit gives you some mobility increase, like flight. Other people are terrible swimmers, and so eat one anyway because there's no downside for them.

But there are people who were good swimmers and resent the fact that their devil fruit makes them drown if they fall into water.

>>157008646
Honestly that might be my favorite part out of everything to do with the fighting in One Piece. Most of the world is made of water, everyone is a pirate and sails around on a ship, and the most threatening force to anyone with a fruit is in fact water. It lends a subtle gravitas that people often take for granted.

Ace as a character solidified his badassery for me when you saw him floating around on a little dinky raft solo. The sheer balls.

>>157008742
>lets have specialists excel in everything

>>157005530
Soul Eater, kinda.

>>157008811
Except they don't excel in everything.

Pakunoda was a specialist. Meleoron too. Neither of which I would call powerhouses. It's suppose to be the category for users who have a power so niche that it doesn't necessarily fit into any of the others.

>>157008921
I think he was referring to Chrollo and Kurapika being OP as balls. Kurapika's eyes make them very strong, but their personal difficulties make it somewhat more palatable.

Why aren't you fat autistic incels talking about the spoilers? Seems Big Mamu is going to be confirmed as a half giant.

>>157008646
Buggy was a good swimmer before they ate the cursed fruit

>>157008977
I always throught Chrollo had some pretty acceptable limitations, but then he got that bookmark and things just went to shit.

>>157008439
That's a garbage power on a garbage character.

>>157009102
He's got a very punchable face though.

>>157008511
>some have more power than others
>this makes it a system
Get the fuck out of here, nobody's power level is even kept consistent.

>>157009023
He has new limitations for his bookmark.

>>157009140
Because it's a shit power system. What is even your argument? You can read, yes?

You even just said "power level" lmao

>>157008751
You forgot about 80% of the world's population being functional retards who will gobble up anything if it apears to be vaguely chewable.

>>157009233
So what you're saying is that the writing is realistic to life?

>>157009176
The argument is that there is no system, only words that make it sound like a system when in fact anyone just does fucking whatever as long as it vaguely related to their theme. Zeref's only weakness could be getting facefucked by Happy and it would be as consistent as everything else so far because there isn't even a standard you can set consistency-wise.

>>157008256
>reading comprehension
>lol

So Oda is gonna give Big Mom a sad story AGAIN

>>157005496
Stands are fine
evolving stands are not