Bullshit.

toriyama stated already long time ago that goku is not a hero

>>156582693
but Goku very blatantly neither likes injustice nor is comfortable with the world being threatened

Thats actually completely in character for Goku he never fought for justice or morals, he just like fighting period

Yeah it's weird that they turned him into this.

All those speeches he had against the villains were not genuine?

>>156582693
We've seen him aware about saving the earth many times. He even taught the fusion to Goten and Trunks for this purpose.

This is fucking garbage. I get that Toriyama doesn't like SuperGoku but god damn this is character assassination.

why is the art so bad

>>156582693
But to have Goku say he's never done anything before for the sake of the planet? That's a complete fucking flanderization of him. It feels like the writers for this show took Toriyama's "Goku is not a hero" thing too seriously and didn't go back to actually see for themselves. Goku isn't a saint but he was very much concerned with the Earth during the Buu saga.

>>156582693

"I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!"

>>156582512
Context senpai context

He came that far in the current tournament situation because he wants to fight strong people. He isnt talking about all of Dragonball,DBZ and even Super

>>156582832
Toriyama and Yammamuro are hacks.

>>156582862
Anon...

You can tell in his face he has been putting fingers in his own and other little boys assholes for a very long time.

>>156582862
>m-maybe if I repost it 100 someone will fall for it
Just give up retard

>>156582749
He can't stand injustice right in front of him, but it's not like he goes out of his way to protect people. See him letting Freeza go twice, without even anything about him repenting.

>>156582693
While that may be true, I feel like Toriyama is laying it on too thick in the other direction.

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>>156582781
What do you mean, Goku was never anything but a psychopath that only cared about fighting

>>156582771
This.
For fucks sake, it doesn't get any clearer than in the Buu saga where Goku and Vegeta are constantly gambling the fate on the universe on muh powerlevels shit
>Oh I could have totally beaten the fat Buu with SS3, but I wanted the two kids to do it!
>Fuck fusing we fight as individuals (and take turns)
>Vegeta literally tells the reader he doesn't kill so there's more competition around

>>156582749
>he doesn't act like a complete sociopath, I guess that means he is like Superman

Dubfags, not even once
Also, Roshi made a similar comment in Battle of Gods, that his lust for fighting should really mean that he's not of pure heart

>>156582693
it's total bullshit.

>>156582847
No, it isn't, you retard. Even in the Android saga, Goku had no problem letting the planet be at risk for the sake of fighting stronger opponents.

>>156583262
>>he doesn't act like a complete sociopath, I guess that means he is like Superman
huh I dont remember typing those words or even implying that

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>>156582512
Is this what all of Super looks like? Holy shit. How can you people watch this?

>>156582512
Character was rewritten quite badly.

>>156583479
>I'm a retard.

>>156583473
>How can you people watch this?

Toeicucks have no self-respect

>>156583357
Did you not read the last sentence of that post? Goku kept passing Buu off to his kids because he understood he cant keep coming in to save everyone and they need to fend for themselves. He was very much concerned with the world during that saga.

>>156582847
Goku didn't give a fuck about earth during the Buu saga, he saw it as a problem for the living to solve and he was only helping with what he could.
Then when he ended up as the one in charge of solving things anyways, he did the typical "It'll all turn out ok somehow! Don't worry dudes."
Then the earth exploded and he couldn't fucking believe it.
Another important thing to note is that anyone living on earth or who has loved ones there would normally not want it to explode.

>>156582512
Goku is just banting

>>156583473
>Posting an even shittier looking anime

>>156582512
Wow, what an asshole

>>156583473
>CG backgrounds
You're as bad as them, and that's saying something.

>>156582512
are you saying super is retarded?

oh no

>>156583473
Because visuals are pretty much the least important aspect of anime and also I'm literally watching new episodes of Dragon Ball every week and I've been doing so for 2 years even though I spent most of my life thinking I wouldn't ever be able to experience such a thing again, and I'll 100% definitely won't be able to ever again once Super is over because all the actors are old as heck already. So fuck you, fun things are fun.

>>156582512
Why if 17 so sexy?

>>156582512
Did you guys miss when at the next scene Goku said that despite his fighting boner he can't stand seeing people and animals being hurt and Goku believed it must be for being raised by grandpa Gohan? Just asking

>>156582832
Because >yukihiro kitano.

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>>156586365
>visuals are pretty much the least important aspect of anime

>>156582512
so... when are we going to see the "REAL" Goku appear on this current series

>>156582818
>We've seen him aware about saving the earth many times.
Because he cares for earth and his friends but deep in his heart what he wants is just to fight. Goku is a good guy but not a hero like Superman.
>He even taught the fusion to Goten and Trunks for this purpose.
He taught them the fusion so they could be the heroes and protect earth, he prefered to get in fights than protect the earth. In the end neither Gohan or the kids completed this role and he had to come back.

>>156582512
>sacrificed himself in the Cell arc
>wanted to not be wished back to life after the fact

Well, at least Goku's considerate to an extent.

>>156586365
Saying visuals are the least important aspect of anime is like saying gameplay is the least important aspect of videogames.

>>156583634
>because he understood he cant keep coming in to save everyone and they need to fend for themselves.
He prefered someone else to take the responsability, because what he wants is just to fight. That doesn't mean he is bad, juat that he prefers to train and fight.


>He was very much concerned with the world during that saga.
While he taught the kids the fusion to defeat Buu, he stated he could've defeated Buu but prefered the kids to take care of that problem.

He can be selfish like Toriyama said but that doesn't mean he is bad. He is someone with a pure heart and good intentions.

>>156587617
It's like saying visuals are the least important aspect of videogames, actually.

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>>156583277
Yeah but it's this man bullshit. His word is law. If he wanted he could say that Roahi can get stronger when he wants to. Wait a moment, he already said that.

>>156587688
No that is a false equivalence as animation is a visual medium and videogames are a gaming medium. The medium is the message and the names of every medium will give off their most important aspect.

>>156583262
Didn't he let the kids fight Buu since he wanted the future generation to be strong enough to protect Earth when he's not around anymore?

>>156587919
That's what Amerigoku wanted, but the real Goku just couldn't be arsed to deal with living world problems now that he was dead.

>>156582512
Is this the first time 17 and Goku ever interacted?

>>156582512
Use the catalog retard >>156576421

>>156588182
Fuck off nigger. /a/ can do with with one less pedo loli thread.

>>156582862
>Dub is canon

>>156589723
What about all the innocent people on the other universes you piece of shit monkeyman.

>>156582512
No nosed, bald alien strong guys
Doc, I need my fix

I love how people ignore what he says next.

Sure, he doesn't go out of his way to be a hero and only seeks to satisfy his fightboner, but even so he hates seeing the innocent suffering right in front of him.

He is a good person but he isn't a hero, he only reacts to what is in front of him.

It annoys me more that 17 wasn't thinking of wishing to revive 16 or bring back the population of those bulls, instead he just wanted a fucking ship that he could get with the normal dragonballs

>>156591969
What annoys me more is that Goku was able to teleport into the alien spaceship when there was nobody in there with a big enough Ki.

>>156583262
he's pure of heart because of his love of fighting is pure, he doesn't fight to inflict pain on others or to feel superior, he fights because he wants to fight tough guys. Pure of heart doesn't mean sacrificial or pure good, pure of heart is being to something devoid with out negative influence.

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>>156592271
What an awkward description.

>>156582512
the phrase means that he never specifically set out to fight guys that endanger the world for the purpose of saving the world.
Rather, instead, he only ever fought them because his friends and family were in immediate danger, or because he wanted a challenge.
In DB, half of his fights were in tournaments, the other half was related to dragon balls.
In DBZ, he fought Radditz cause he kidnapped Gohan.
He fought Napa and Vegeta because they were killing his friends and endangered his son.
He went to Namek to revive his friends.
Once on Namek, he beat the ginyu force because they were an immediate threat to his friends.
Same with Frieza, hence why he gave him a chance to leave.
Back on earth, the androids were probably the only time he preemptively approached an enemy for the purpose of saving people in advance, but because of trunks he knew that the androids were there because of him, and going after his friends and family.
Cell was obviously because he wanted a good fight, he left it to Gohan to beat Cell.
with Majin buu, he was wanting a good fight, that's why he went along, that's why he fought Vegeta in SS2 form, and only then was Majin Buu such a threat to his friends and family that he had to take him on.

>>156593388
>he only ever fought them because his friends and family were in immediate danger, or because he wanted a challenge.
Goku would constantly put his family and friends in danger because he wanted a challenge.

>>156593478
So both

>>156592138

He can teleport to Korin to get senzu beans whenever he wants, unless he went through intense limbo training his power level should be well below those on the ship.

>>156583230
>posting Viz Translations!

GET REAL!

>>156583262
goku likes a good fight but he's rarely, if ever, malicious about it. he doesn't like to fight because he likes seeing others in pain

aqua a shit

>>156583357
Goku couldn't kill anyone during the Android sage because he was too weak every time. In perhaps the most revealing scene in the series, he is shocked when Picollo drills it into his dense head that Gohan may actually die because fighting isn't what he lives for. So yeah, he wanted to watch a good fight, but he wasn't capable of beating Cell and makes that clear in the Time Chamber.

Check yourself before calling someone a retard.

>>156583723
During the final battle, Goku tells Vegeta he regrets killing Kid Buu right away, because he couldn't tell how weak he was until it was too late. Also, he begs Kid Buu not to destroy the earth. And he saves Mr. Satan because he sees him first. Real Goku has an overbearing hero complex like Kenshin. He impulsively protects whoever needs it, in the hopes it works out post hoc. Toriyama said there were "traces of poison" in his character, not that his love of fighting defined him. He's a hero first, even if that is sometimes against his own interest.

THAT is Goku in a nutshell.

>>156582512
you missed the part where he said he can't stand innocent animals and people being hurt in front of him.

Goku doesn't set out to fight bad guys in the name of justice or anything like that. He reacts to bad shit happening in front of him. Other than that he doesn't really care.

>>156595937

What is Son Goku to Toriyama-sensei?

Toriyama: At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

Nozawa: A strong person like this would absolutely show off that “I’m strong”, wouldn’t they? But [Goku] would absolutely not come out with that, would he? I’m always saying this to everyone, but the world would be an incredibly nice place if it were full of people like Goku.

Toriyama: I have a feeling that the world wouldn’t operate very well. (laughs)

Nozawa: (laughs)

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>>156582512
So......what about this scene then?

>>156597395
Taking responsibility for his fuck up.

>>156597448
>For Vegetas fuck up
Ftfy

>>156583262
Saiyans were a mistake Freeza did nothing wrong

>>156597395
I have never realized how fucked up his anatomy is in that image before now. Holy shit that's bad.

>>156597395
>>156597473
A lot of people fucked up there. Goku was just back on the ball finally.

>>156582693
"Stop destroying my world"

>>156598386
"Stop enjoying destruction"

>>156597395
>>156597885

jesus christ

>>156597448
Goku fucked up by not taking gero out before he built the androids

>>156597885
>>156598530
He is an alien life form.

>>156583357
Yeah, but that's because they genuinely thought they could pull it off.

Shit got so serious against Cell, Goku was shouting at Gohan to finish Cell off because they didn't know what other bullshit he could pull out of his ass.

Not to mention, the entire Buu Saga was about Goku (trying) to move on and let the rest of the gang protect the planet.

>>156593388
>with Majin buu, he was wanting a good fight, that's why he went along, that's why he fought Vegeta in SS2 form, and only then was Majin Buu such a threat to his friends and family that he had to take him on.
Goku was outright REFUSING to put up with Vegeta until his midlife crisis had him shooting at defenseless people, and then he fought him. The only reason he didn't go SSJ3 and knock out Vegeta right then and there, because he was pitying him.

>>156598824
Why exactly was Goku refusing to begin with?

He told Krillin to spare the fucker just to fight him again and beat him with his own power and by Buu he doesn't care anymore?

>>156598897
Buu could follow him into the afterlife and eat his soul. There was no dealing w/ Buu later.

>>156586365
>visuals are pretty much the least important aspect of anime
Visuals are the defining aspect of anime, friend. If you don't care about visuals you can read a book. Hell, you can even go read a manga.

Animation and cinema are visual media, disregarding the visual is disregarding the only reason why you should prefer it over other media for your chosen form of artistic expression.

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>>156583473
wider~

>>156582512
>trained like a madman to stop piccolo from goberning the earth.
>willingly died against raditz to save everyone.
>"killed" frieza because he was a lost cause.
>wanted trunks and goten to learn the fusion dance so they could protect the earth in his stead.
>"literally said to satan "you are the true savior of the universe" implying he knew that their actions against buu were saving everyone.

Goku likes to fight but he wasn't so flanderized back then, he literally stopped training and surrendered a fight so he could show off how strong his kid was also he could have easily spend more years inside the chamber and beat cell by himself, heck he could have spend that ssj week inside instead of of wasting those normal days.

>>156601075
Being dead changes your personality. You have no glands when you're made of ectoplasm.

>>156592138
He could feel the bull, also it was a couple yards of his sight. He needs a reference when he can see wheres he going. Goku teleports at random spots against Cell and Bills.

>>156582512
This guy literally put the multiverse at risk of annihilation just to satisfy his desire of punching strong people. And he did so without any shame or regret.

>>156582512
>Beat strong guys
Now have to retcon how the fucking Spirit Bomb works with world energy

It's a Super episode, I dunno why you guys are bothering with this trash, right now GT is 100x better and I remember hating it with a passion, this is making that series look like a Mercy shot.

Why did toriyama have to make this shit? Doesn't he have any fucking shame?

>>156601554
The thing that bothers me the most is that he doesn't seem to feel any guilt or regret.

>>156582512
did they just retconed cell's saga with this? fucking kek

Superfags btfo, gt is miles better at this point.

>>156582512
goku is shit

>>156582693
This.

>>156597885
> This is what nostalgiafags are comparing to when they complain about Super's art

>>156582693
Goku is a deadbeat

>>156587896

According to your own bullshit internal logic, which is completely subjective. They're both entertainment, and most games do not in fact prioritize their own gameplay; this is because people REALLY just want mildly interactive stories, not absurd bullshit skill checks. Well, most people that is. Retrofags, fightan-gamefags, and scrollanshootanfags LOVE absurd bullshit skill checks.

>>156588077

Yes, actually. However, when Goku calls upon the world's energy to defeat Buu, I believe 17 mentioned that Goku's voice was a familiar one, and lent his power. Unless I'm mistaken and he was referring to Mr. Satan, though I doubt it.

>>156599080

True, but Goku didn't know that about Buu until much later than the Majin Vegeta fight.

>>156598897

I think it was because Goku DID want to fight Vegeta, but in the context of a relatively harmless tournament where they wouldn't go SSJ. For them to fight as SSJ2s would be excessively dangerous, potentially world-destroying. It's amazing that, with the way powers have scaled, and with SSJ2 Gohan's Kamehameha being almost as big as Earth when he killed Cell, that SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta didn't outright destroy the planet from their battle, regardless of whatever effects Babidi's ship had in regard to absorbing their runoff energy.

And, shit, apply that logic to every fight beyond that.

>>156600679
>disregarding the visual is disregarding the only reason why you should prefer it over other media for your chosen form of artistic expression.

This is just retarded. Visuals can supplement storytelling and audio without necessarily being the driving factor. Are you telling me that you wouldn't like to have visual stimulation to go along with your favorite books, even if they aren't better than everything else about the book? That's just stupid. The visuals don't have to be the best thing.

People like you, and the other Anon, take all the extra dimensions out of art and turn it into something dull and flat.

>>156600679
>>156609371

Also, let's not forget that we Anons aren't actually disregarding the animation in its entirety. That's faulty wording which completely fails to reflect the reality of the situation; which is: the animation isn't always great, but it's often good enough to be satisfying in its own right.

I have personally enjoyed many moments of the animation in Super, just as much as I've been outright appalled by animation in DB/Z.

>>156601554
No, dude. Look at the options here:
A) Goku neglects to remind Zeno of the tournament; Zeno proceeds to completely destroy 8 Universes, including Goku's. What does Goku's Universe benefit from this? An uncertain amount of bought time?
B) Goku reminds Zeno of the tournament, allowing at least one of eight Universes to be spared.

For all we know, Zeno was about to destroy Universe 7 the moment Goku reminded him of the tournament. Instead of delaying the inevitable, Goku has given a whole Universe of people a chance to live; with that Universe possibly being his own.

Goku literally did nothing wrong in ANY conceivable way here. At worst, WORST, you could say that his playful nature is extremely dangerous in perhaps drawing the attention of a multiversal destroyer; but in this specific instance, his action did far more good than bad.

>>156609595
In the end that's true, but Goku didn't know that Zeno was planning to erase the universes when he talked to him about the tournament.

>>156582512
so is goku a bad written character or what ?

>>156611407
He's only badly written now because Toriyama is senile and can't remember Goku being anything but a flanderized concept in his head and Toei just goes along with it because they're scared of making another GT.

>>156582886
I think it's deeper than that. It makes sense to suggest that Goku isn't really thinking about the consequences when he's in the heat of the moment during a battle where everything he cares for is on the line. It's pretty obvious in that one moment from Z (cell games?) where he gets carried away and almost fires a full strength kamehameha at the earth's surface before snapping back to reality.

>>156582749

And he says that.

Still, he fought because because of strong guys.

Fucking retarded "fans".

>>156582818

Name one that wasn't a filler or movie.

>He even taught the fusion to Goten and Trunks for this purpose.

Yeah, and put SSJ3 on hold so he could fight Buu fullpower.

>>156582862
Akira Toriyama didn't write that. Funimation's dub writers did

>>156597473
>For Krillins fuck up
FTFY

>>156597395
Wow, this is really bad.