For the sake of the entire universe, his work MUST be allowed

The universe is fine.
Incubators are just autistic.
What they're doing is the equivalent of realizing that the broom doesn't fit into those tight corners and ripping off a kid's underdeveloped dick to use that instead.

>>156574522
There is nothing wrong with postponing the death of the universe

>>156575039
And there's nothing wrong with cleaning your room either. What's your point?
Just because an action isn't inherently bad doesn't mean it's necessary or that any sacrifice is okay to be made for the successful execution of it?

Kyubey just needs to admit to himself that he has a fetish for tormenting little girls. If he actually wanted to delay entropy, he'd start by blotting out unneeded stars.

>>156575361
The point is that Incubators are utilitarians who sacrifice a small subset of a single species' population from a single planet revolving around one of countless stars in order to prolong the existence of every other life form.

Just admit that if Incubators were farming anything else other than humans' souls, you would be 100% ok with it.

QB was just making everything worse. Homura's way or bust

>>156576378
>The point is that Incubators are utilitarians who sacrifice a small subset of a single species' population
And you're a utilitarian that would sacrifice a small kid's dick to clean your room.

>in order to prolong the existence of every other life form.
And this is where you are wrong. The universe wouldn't end before all current life forms die out, with or without the incubators' actions. What they are doing is meaningless to anyone's self interest.

>>156576495
The Incubators may know of aliens that may live long enough to witness and suffer from heat death. The Incubators themselves may be one of them. It should also be worth noting that there are other species out there that may live long enough to suffer from heat death that the Incubators don't know of and are probably taking into account.

>>156576495
>The universe wouldn't end before all current life forms die out
Said life forms would die out due to heat death and decay, which is specifically being reversed

>>156577082
>The Incubators may know of aliens that may live long enough
No, they cannot know that.
They can speculate.

>>156577126
Seriously, the time scale is just way out of whack. Even without interference by the incubators, the universe is going to last a LONG time. The last black holes will die in some 10^100 years. Let's just cut off 20 digits. We've got plenty of digits, so it's no big deal. We can safely assume that the universe will offer nice and livable planets even in 10^80 years. That is not just extremely far off, but it also way more than the current age of the universe. The universe has been around for 13.8 billion years. If there were a species that had been around for this entire time (roughly 10^10 years), this creature is going to become 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times as old as it is now. Or not. Because given that time frame, it's more likely to die at some point.
This sort of number is worse than looking at one of your sperm cells and saying: Hey, I hope he studies medicine quick so he can pay for me when I'm too old to work.
Most sperm cells never make it to humans.
But a sperm cell's chances are actually better than any living creature's chances are to last another 10^80 years.
You are being stupid. Stop being stupid. These numbers are retardedly large and you should acknowledge their size for a moment.

>>156577456
They appear to be a collective consciousness which might as well be immortal, and they clearly value civilizations more than individuals. The fact that no individual will live 10^80 years is irrelevant to their goals.

>>156577456
Well, what I meant by that is that they know of aliens that they think, based on how they behave, may survive long enough to start to feel the effects of heat death.

>>156577586
Given the scale of their civilization, there exists the possibility that may know of others.

>>156577653
They outright say that others exist. QB infodumps enough, going into details there would be out of place.

>>156577766
When do they say this? It's been a while since I last watched MadoMagi

>>156577595
>>156577586
>The fact that no individual will live 10^80 years
No one said that.
The point is that you cannot measure a creature's life expectancy from looking at the first 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it.
When a creature has lived for 10^79 years, that's when you can reasonably expect them to make it to 10^80, depending on their health. When a creature has lived for 10^78 years, you can reckon that it's possible that maybe it'll last to 10^80. When a creature has lived 10^77 years, you can't completely rule out the possibility that it could become 10^80 years old.
When a creature is 10^10 years old, thinking about 10^80 years is retarded.

>>156576457
Preach it

>>156577814
It's in one of the two infodumps, I don't remember which one.

>>156577855
If they have no reason to think they'll die out otherwise, I fail to see how it's illogical to plan ahead for a known threat.

>>156577855
You're missing the point. As far as QB's concerned, the threat is real. Maybe he's wrong. Maybe the series exists in a universe where the numbers are different. It really doesn't matter.

>>156578005
>If they have no reason to think they'll die out otherwise,
Here's a reason:
Shit happens.
Given a sufficiently long time frame, everything dies.

>illogical
It's not "illogical". It's pointless. Please don't ask me to explain to you what logical means.

>>156578139
And why should I take an autistic liar's word for it?
He's probably only bothered because like all autists he just hates change and noticed that the entire fucking universe is changing.
Burning cute girls for the sake of some alien's OCD is not sensible.

>>156578145
>Given a sufficiently long time frame, everything dies.
>It's not "illogical". It's pointless.
So why don't they just end their lives now?

Your argument is basically the global warming denialist argument.

>>156574059
QB is just memeing.
There is no way using magical girls (who are beings inside of the system) can be used to prevent entropy.

>>156578223
>So why don't they just end their lives now?
Why would they do that?
Are you planning to kill yourself just because you must die anyway? Or would you rather just live your life to the end?

Knowing that you are human you are also aware of the fact that if I promise you to pay you 1 trillion dollars in 500 years if you give me 1000 dollars now, that's a meaningless promise and you are not going to get anything for your money. But I hope that doesn't make you suicidal.

>>156578335
What is "the end"? If I had the power to push that back, I'd do it, which is exactly what they're doing.

>>156578422
>which is exactly what they're doing.
No, they are pushing back the heat death of the universe, which has nothing to do with their species' demise, because the incubators are going to die much earlier.
You can't save somebody with terminal cancer by fighting global warming.

>>156578492
>because the incubators are going to die much earlier
On what basis do you have that information? "A reality-warping alien hivemind couldn't possibly live that long?"

Entropy is just a shitty plot device, pay no attention to it.

>>156578613
>On what basis do you have that information?
Did you not read the thread? Or are you just being stubborn?

>reality-warping alien
No, only the magical girls warp reality. If the incubators could do that themselves, they wouldn't need them.

Fuck Kyuubey, when will Homura finish killing them all?

>>156578657
>Did you not read the thread? Or are you just being stubborn?
All you posted was some large numbers, there's no way to know how long their civilization can actually live

>No, only the magical girls warp reality. If the incubators could do that themselves, they wouldn't need them.
They can facilitate it with technology, which is more advanced than anything in real life.

>>156579066
I bet you also believe that you'll win the lotto if you just buy one more ticket.

>>156579114
A roundabout analogy suggesting I have a poor grasp on statistics has nothing to do with the expected lifetime of a fictional alien civilization which operates in a completely different manner than anything that exists in real life

Congrats for baiting me into this retarded conversation, this is my last post.

>>156574059
Maybe this universe will die eventually, but a new one will be born through quantum fluctuations.

>>156579279
>A roundabout analogy suggesting I have a poor grasp on statistics
No, that was you with
>All you posted was some large numbers, there's no way to know
With those numbers, the probabilities are way worse than lotto, no matter what kind of technology they have. No one is prepared for eternity.
>this is my last post.
That's probably for the better. You're embarrassing yourself.

>>156578201
It doesn't matter what you think of him. He's in charge. Not you or your cute girl-prioritizing values.

If he can sacrifice a hanful of beings to extend the the life of the universe by a significant amount of time, he's done the right thing.

Think about how many more cute girls will be born within the time he's bought. Countless populated planets with countless lifeforms will be able to have existed. They will go through their version of puberty, love, despair, struggle and live. And many of them will be just as cute as the ones who sacrificed their lives, if not more.

He's effectively allowing countless more Madokas, Mamis and Homuras to exist in the far future. Billions, if not trillions of cute girls will exist, all thanks to the incubators' intervention.

From an absolutely detached, logical standpoint, Kyubey is an indisputably benevolent force. That is what Kyubey knows. That is what he believes in. And because he was the one in charge, that is how things went.

I hope you're at least emotionally mature enough to be able to comprehend this, anon.

>>156578492
The Incubators know that they can live long enough to suffer from heat deaths so they are taking measures to ensure that they don't.

It should also be worth noting that the Incubators are a spacefaring race and are probably collecting energy from more than just one world

>>156579511
You missed the part where the Incubators are perfectly willing to let the Earth be destroyed by Madoka because doing so will fulfill their quota. The Incubators are self-serving, not benevolent. The only other beneficiaries are species that won't exist for trillions of years, some of whom will be exploited just as humans were.

>>156577855
Gambler's fallacy.

>>156580490
That is a much darker shade of gray morality, but the implication is that the energy released by Kriemhild Gretchen's emergence is so great due to Homura's shenanigans that the time it would buy the universe is easily worth an entire planet's worth in lives.

After all, even before all of this came into question, there still was the issue of witches killing innocent bystanders with their murder tattoos. Since the incubators know about that, those lives are also added to their calculations found to be worth less than the lives allowed to exist in the future.

QB's never had issues with whether what he did was fair to the victims, magical girl or otherwise. Only the net result.

>>156580951
The only lives Incubators care about are their own and those that can be exploited for energy. There is no "value of life" factored into their calculations. This is not benevolence; they act only in the interest of self-preservation.

>>156582260
Except there is no way for you to know that's how they feel by knowing nothing about them other than what they tell you through a cat avatar. You're free to assume the worst about QB if you don't like him, but don't delude yourself into thinking that's fact rather than assumptions.

>>156582745
They are literally emotionless and incapable of feeling things like sentiment or affection towards others, they discard you the moment you stop being useful to them

>>156583113
Doesn't mean they don't see the value of benevolence. It's always been a very effective method.

>>156583298
Benevolence is action based on emotion (charitablity, goodwill). Incubators lack emotions. In the absence of emotion, there is no reason to act in such a manner unless it will further their goal, in which case, it really isn't benevolence at all, again, it's self interest.

>>156582745
>there's no way for you to know anything about them except what the show tells you!
Yes, that's the case with everything. For all we know Madoka was actually torturing small animals whenever she was offscreen, but it's stupid to assume that the narrative would lie to you about something that never comes up

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>>156574059
>the universe will end if you don't allow us to sacrifice little girl

No.

>>156584080
But the anti-spirals were right, the unchecked use of spiral power will destroy the universe

>>156584126
T. Anti-spirals

>>156583765
Except that's not true at all. Humans show benevolence towards each other and even the animals they raise to be slaughtered, simpky because things go better overall if you fake politeness or pay veterinarians hefty sums to keep their livestock healthy instead of killing them as soon as they're cumbersome. Not because we're kind. Because it's the norm established through centuries of proof that it works.

Or did you think everyone who said something kind to you actually meant what they were saying?

If me using the word benevolent is the problem, just correct me on that instead. I mean a force of good when I say that, which is probably not its primary definition.

>>156583869
But anon, that's my point exactly. The narrative indicates that QB believes his actions to be just and that his race has been doing this for eons with demonstrable results.

Is it canon that Homura wanted to be a ballerina before getting her heart condition?

>>156584230
senpai, have you never heard of factory farming before?

>>156574059
What if my wish is to rape Homura?

>>156584356
Factory farmed meat is far inferior.

Also, QB's all about the free-range.

>>156584390
Are you willing to give up your life for it? Then I'm sure Kyuubey would be more than willing to fulfull it.

Homura's world is an aberration and she deserves severe punishment for her crimes

>>156584230
You're misusing the word benevolence. Benevolence is action based on kindness. Kyubey's actions are strictly based on self-preservation.

QB is right. People can't be objective and think beyond muh poor girls muh humanity abloblobloo. Butcher shouldn't have bothered making things too complex and just made it a villain, since half the fans think it's one anyway.

>>156584390
>force yourself on someone who can stop time and travel back in time to pre-emptively torture you to death when you least expect it
unwise

>>156585315
Why do you keep on pointing back to that like it matters? Yes, he's a literal sociopath. And he still chooses to do right by the universe as a whole, because that's the scale he works at. And he succeeds for the longest time.

>>156585797
Self-preservation = righteousness is not objective morality.

>>156585886
>he doesn't want Homu to torture him to death
Wtf is wrong with you

>>156586257
It has nothing to do with morality.

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>>156586257
>objective morality

>>156586367
>It has nothing to do with morality
>>156585797
>QB is right

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Who was in the wrong here?

>>156586404
>morality not objective
nu-philosophy please

>>156586489
None of them. Kyuubey is doing what's best for the universe, but the magical girls are completely justified in retaliating.

>>156586196
>he still chooses to do right by the universe as a whole
You cannot do right by the universe so much as you cannot do right by an atom. Unless you are referring to the inhabitants of the universe, in which case, the heat death of the universe is a non-issue to every species but the Incubators.

>>156576378
You talk like Walpurgisnacht wasn't strong enough to destroy the world or Homura isn't posibly the last magical girl

>>156586489
Kyubey for thinking they could control God

>>156586825
>the heat death of the universe is a non-issue to every species but the Incubators
[Citation Needed]

>>156586489
Everyone who isn't Homura

>>156588292
Imprisoning your best friend who doesn't even sexually love you back against her will is pretty wrong, anon.

>>156588246
You need a citation for the notion that every species will persist for trillions of years?

The Coobies are a good representation of why utilitarianism is evil.

>>156574059
Individuals are more important than some faggy universe. We only exist in the moment, we must live in it and disregard the past or future. Neither the dead nor those yet to be born exist, even if you are going to die in a year, you will still be alive right now. The incubators don't get this. Because they fear the future they ruin the present.

>>156588368
Madoka didn't want to be a god and only did it due to her pathological level of selflessness. Homura was right to split her in half. Sometimes you have to do something that someone else won't like at first in order to help them. Think drug addicts, for example.

>>156589960
t. liberal arts major

>>156588755
How are you not comprehending that for every species that dies during that time, another will be born? The universe needs to exist for life to exist within it. Thus, the act of making the universe exist longer by a significant amount of time is noble no matter how you look at it. It doesn't matter that you're sacrificing thousands- you're giving birth to billions. Sacrifice a planet by creating Kriemhild? Trillions of lives sustained.

It doesn't matter if Kyuubey did it out of the goodness of his heart or not. In the end, he did good. Nobody's arguing whether he was a charming bloke.

How are you still not getting this?

>>156590125
t. fedora tipping stemfag

>>156586489
Locking up souls violates the NAP

>>156590115
Not true, Madoka always wanted to be someone important, someone absolutely indispensable to those around her. She was desperately bored and unfulfilled at the start of the series. She was conflicted because she knew that her desires to have a quiet, normal life and being people's savior (not necessarily a god but still) were incompatible. Her regrets after ascension were basically "shit maybe this wasn't worth it."

>>156590145
>How are you still not getting this?

Probably because he isn't an autistic retard and is capable of feeling empathy for others.

>>156590145
People that exist are what matters, not the potential existences of the future. Trillions of people that don't exist yet might as well be 0. You're not saving anyone by doing that, you're just making more people to be destroyed.

>>156590259
No, she says to Homura in Rebellion, when she doesn't have her god memories, that it's something she'd never want to do. Wanting to be able to help people =/= wanting to become a concept, cease to exist as a person, leave behind your family and have them forget you existed, etc.

>>156590285
To be destroyed in the end is a basic requirement to count as people, anon. They'll have lived before they died. That's what matters.

Wait... Do you also think we should be drilling into the arctic for oil? After all, it's more important that those who exist should have gas. Future generations don't exist yet, fuck them, who cares that they'll be raped by floods, right?

>>156590145
Sacrificing those that exist for the sake of those who do not is not noble. Creating life is not an act of goodness.

>>156590180
But the magical girls made a contract. It's not the incubator's fault that they didn't ask what the mechanism behind their powers was.

>>156590555
It would not be an issue if we stopped reproducing. However, since we do, we have a responsibility to ensure the welfare of our offspring.

>>156590657
Trapping Homura's gem in the one-way field in Rebellion was not part of the contract.

>>156590555
>Do you also think we should be drilling into the arctic for oil? After all, it's more important that those who exist should have gas. Future generations don't exist yet, fuck them, who cares that they'll be raped by floods, right?
Except those unborn generations would be born regardless of whether or not we drilled, you dolt.

>>156590808
That was preventative. Homura was attempting to violate the NAP so they intervened.

>>156590899
>Homura was attempting to violate the NAP
Only possible through her isolation in the first place: they created the problem, inflicting pain in the process.

>>156590180
>When you take control of a car with your alien technology and plow it headfirst into the nearest occupied van so that you can kill a little girls' family and then get her to sell you her soul so that she can stay alive

>>156590368
At least she gets to talk with Sayaka and the others in heaven

>>156590899
What, exactly, constitutes a violation of the NAP?