Enlighten me, /a/, why do kids and newfags keep thinking that

>>156427023
I mean they can obtain god ki just by training really really really hard

Because those few characters from other races who are stronger than them are totally not exceptions huh?

>>156427176
The angels are all strong and so is whatever race Zeno is supposed to be.

>>156427171
Is it ever explained how Vegeta got his God Ki?

>>156427171
And other races can obtain power levels in the millions and billions just by being born/created.

Buu, Androids, Kaioshins, Frieza, Angels, etc.

>>156427551
Training with Whiz.

Apparently that's probably how Beerus got his God Ki too. Beerus used to be a mortal race who got nominated into becoming a God of Destruction. That's why we see the Gods of Destructions from other universes belonging to a whole wide range of different races. If anyone have the potential to be trained to use God Ki by an angel they can become one too.

>>156427652
Buu is a demi-god from the start of the universe, the Androids were created using data from Saiyan fights, Frieza was so strong he subjugated the universe by himself, the Angels are literally angels, there's like 10 of them out of a multi-verse population of probably quintillions of lives.

Even Ginyu explained that he was a freakish mutant in terms of strength, and his power level was barely 100,000.

>>156427684
>Training with Whiz.
So why didn't he bring this shit up when they were running around looking for the SSJG?

>>156427700
If someone or something is created or born from the start to be stronger than a Saiyan then he is stronger than a Saiyan.

If a Saiyan MUST train to surpass that said being, as it happens ALL THE TIME in Dragonball, then again this demonstrates Saiyans are weaker than that being. It's simple logic.

>>156427773
Yeah, but my point is that the galaxy is comprised almost entirely of beings with power levels of 1-1000, literally trillions of faceless mooks, and yet you seem to think that literally >5 people being stronger than Saiyans makes the Saiyans weak or something.

>>156427726
Because Beerus believed there was a Saiyan who can become a Super Saiyan God without being trained by an angel, like literally following the legend of it.

>>156427773
>>156427790
The training argument is moot because you only see Goku/Vegeta training anyway, clearly the entire Ginyu force trained because of how many missions they went on. Kaioshins train, we saw Zamasu. Does combat = training? How much 'training' has Frieza had by fighting powerful opponents? Does it really count as having 'never trained' because all they've done is fight people?

>>156427023
Childhood memories of only watching DBZ when it really got popular, aka around the point when Goku starts fighting Frieza.

Only Goku gets to have all the powerups for plot reasons, thus Goku is the strongest, and thus Saiyans are the strongest in the universe.

>>156427823
Frieza is a lazy fag who sits in his chair the whole time. Plus there's the whole ego about him thinking he's the strongest being in the universe ever and how he's a prodigy because if he only trained just a wee bit he can get a hell lot stronger.

Buu is a literal fatass. Yeah I mean he ate a fat Kaioshin but he can still lose weight and get in shape if he wanted to.

Cell got too much Frieza in him and refused to train. Granted it's just three days or so after he gone Perfect but apparently the Frieza personality is there with him believing that he's the most perfect existence there is and no one will ever surpass him no matter how much they train.

>>156427652
Really grasping for straws there.
>Frieza is confirmed mutant
>Kaioshins and angels are gods not mortal races
>buu is djinn so pretty much lesser god
>androids are a "race"? really now?

>>156427023
The Hit race is the strongest.
>Time manipulation
>long lives
>beyond ssb+kaioken strength
Guldo was just an unfortunate weak and ugly mutation.

For all we know at the end of the day race doesn't even matter in Dragonball. It's about how hard you trained and how smart you train as well, and learning the right techniques to defeat your foes.

For instance Namekians may perhaps be arguably weaker than Saiyans physical wise but when it comes to Ki control they are the experts of them all, channeling and multiplying it to absurd levels (Special Beam Cannon, anyone?), also they can use magic which even the strongest fighters will find it hard to counter.

The same goes for Kaioshins and their magic as well. Immortal Zamasu is only SS2 level at best but he's incredibly difficult for Goku and Vegeta to put down because of his haxx spells.

The thing that makes Saiyans really strong is that it's stated they get stronger after every fight no matter what and they have the ability to change their power level by transforming which a lot of other races simply don't have and that also gives them a huge advantage. So in video game terms yea picking one of them as a character would make you weaker at first but you'd get like tripple xp and a transformation bonus.

>>156427726
probably because Beerus want the God here and now. Beerus would have just destroyed earth other wise, he didn't want to wait.

>>156428367
Pretty much and this is why Buu has the highest potential out of any fighter in the series.

>>156428466
2/2

In my opinion the only reason Goku and Vegita and the other z fighters got so strong is because unlike their ancestors they actually had worthy competition to battle against instead of just blasting down weaklings in other planets.

>>156427823
combat=training?
to an extent, it only works if it is a near death battle and only saiyans seem to gain an extra boost from that.
Training litterally let's you focus not just on your battle power but mental power and technique. Hence meditation is also viable training. Training also can go so far with out some one to test it against. So I guess it depends on the character in the end.

>>156427023
Look at all the other races that trained also and lost.

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So what would have happened if Freeza killed Goku and didn't destroy earth but just ruled over it as one of the many other planets he ruled over. If the androids were still created do you think they would have been made as heroes of justice instead of killers and would they have been able to stand against Freeza or do you think he would have been stronger than they were by that point?

>>156427773
It's also about limits. You can start a tall glass with less liquid than a smaller glass, but no matter how much liquid you fill that smaller glass it will never be capable of retaining the same amount of liquid as the taller glass. The taller glass is a Saiyan. The liquid is training/potential

>>156428625
If Freeza had won Trunks would've still killed the Androids.

>>156429067
He wouldn't be alive anymore because Vegita would be dead.

>>156429067
The androids would be earths only hope at stopping Freeza if Freeza beat Goku.

>>156430221
They would probably beat freeza and then establish their own tyranny, like in future trunks timeline.

>>156430773
Isn't it weird that one scientist was able to build machines capable of beating Freeza and a super saiyan and that's not even talking about Cell. I just think it's kinda cool that the humans in this series are capable of that and not completely useless.

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>>156430221
>earths only hope

>He thinks the earth would still be around after Freezer was done with Goku.

>>156427023
saiyan's have probably the most POTENTIAL for strength because of their genetics (zenkai boost, various transformations, etc), but they aren't natively the strongest race

basically, any saiyan could reach goku or vegeta's level if they dedicated themselves enough

>>156427700
A bunch of freizas aliens were stronger or as strong as vegeta before he went to namek.

>>156427652
The androids are not stronger than a SS, but they have their bullshit energy barrier and the ability to absorb Ki from their enemy to power up.
And Vegeta was enough of a fucking moron to make sure they could thoroughly charge before he started fighting seriously.

>>156427023
>Saiyan
>blue hair

Didn't Toriyama explicitly.say that they all have black hair, even back then?

>>156427023
>tfw Yamcha is likely stronger than 99% of every Saiyan that ever lived who isn't Goku, Vegeta, or their offspring

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>>156431578
yes they stated that after going yellow

>>156427023
Saiyans always come out on top in the end. Is Goku still around? Vegeta? Gohan? Goten? Trunks? What about any of those "stronger" races you mentioned?
Ya that's what I thought. All of their opponets trained to but it still didn't matter in the face of Saiyan master race. Case closed faggot.

>>156431912
Freeza literally lifted for a few months and become a god.
And we're supposed to believe Saiyans are the strongest... goddamnit Toriyama.

>>156427023
wehn you think of how strong goku got after a year training with king kai, and he is strong enough to survive agianst Vegeta, then yamcha and train with king kai and become stronger than the ginyu force who is WAY stronger than vegeta.

later after three years of training and goku jobs to android 19 the rebots are easily between by piccalo and SS vegeta. then SS vegeta jobs to android 18. piccalo and kame fuse to become a super namikian, equalling the power of android 17 who is stronger than SS vegeta, gets jobbed by based level cell, 17 jobs and gets eaten by cell and becomes imperfect cell, who then jobs to Tien, who is human... and apperently stronger than and android and a FUCKING super saiyan!!

verdict, Humans with training rapidly exceed other races, sains jsut have that damage recovery power up and the ability to transform.

>>156432088
Or Buu who will always be relevant no matter what against any enemy if he's serious.

Not fat buu.

Putting aside the huge power ups the heroes got during the series, the Namekians are actually stronger than the Saiyans, at least without the Great Ape transformation.

The average warrior Namekian is better than the average Saiyan(Raditz), and the elite warrior Namekian(Nail) is stronger than the elite Saiyan warriors(Nappa and Saiyan arc Vegeta).
Even though Nappa said Namekians are like insects to him, the only reason that he was able to kill Piccolo was that Piccolo was gimped by being half a person,

>>156427023
When you think about it, all beings we know that have power level above 10k are gods, demons, artificial life forms, one of a kind ancient monsters, confirmed mutants or super elites that are most likely mutants. Saiyan race having the highest average power level in the universe isn't really that far-fetched.

Let's assume that an average Saiyan has power level of 500. I think it's a believable number, since their entire race is made of warriors, and even a low-class like Raditz was still way above this number.
Now, there is the magic of big numbers. A planet with 6,000,000,000 ningens with power level of 5 and one super ningen with power level of 1,000,000,000,000 would have an average power level of pathetic 171.(6). Let's even say that they have power level of 100 instead of 5. The average is still just 266.(6).
You need just 299,999 ningens from Frieza's race with power level of 100 to bring their average power level below 500.

>>156432547
But Raddits destroyed Piccolo.

>>156432866
Again, same reason.
The original Nameless Namekian was so strong that the Namekian Grand Elder believed that only a Super Saiyan can kill him.

>>156427852
Saiyans have the potential to get stronger and stronger because of zenkai, but as mercenaries they only fought people weaker than themselves.

>>156432923
Who cares what he believed. He was obviously wrong because wasn't the only know ssj at that time was broly and he wouldn't have Stood a chance against him and you're only talking about one namekian.

>>156428625
I think Brody and Freeza would have faught before that because Broly came to earth looking for Goku before the androids even existed so yea Freeza would have been stopped no matter what and even if Broly didn't exist I don't think the androids would have even been created because they were made specifically to fight Goku.

I'm confused about Goku's actuall powerlevel in the anime right now. Is he stronger than Beerus at this point or would he still get easily beat in a serious matchup.

>>156433056
Broly's not canon.
I think we all saw how much power Piccolo gained by refusing with Kami. You seriously think that if he did that in the Saiyan arc, then Raditz, Nappa or Vegeta would have stood a chance?
Anyway, that's already 2 Namekians that can beat the best pre series Saiyans had to offer. And the average Namekian fighter is stronger than the average Saiyan from what we saw as well.

>>156432337
my point is, training seems to pay off more for humans than saiyans

>>156433199
You're comparing a fusion to one guy.

>>156433199
Piccolo was much stronger when he fused anon. I don't think your point is valid. Give Raddits that much time to train and power up as much as him and Goku.

>>156433740
No, you're comparing one guy to half a guy.

>>156433790
So put him up against Goten or trunks.

>>156433790
He'd still get demolished by kid Gohan though.

>>156433942
>>156433961
That's after the series gave Saiyans a shitload of powerups. I'm talking about the time before that.

>>156433942
>>156433961

The kid Ssj's are examples of what happens when the average Saiyan actually trains. Much more potential than Namekians if you ask me.

>>156431578
She dyes her hair with the blood of her enemies.

>>156434010
It's not just power ups for no reason. It's called the olds hook saiyans didn't really train. They just killed weaker life forms but Gohan, trunks and Goten are examples of what the average saiyan is capable of when actually training like Piccolo did his entire life btw.

>>156434102
old school*

>>156434102
aren't Gohan, trunks and Goten 1st generation of half-humans
so they have lot more potential

>>156434010
You're also forgetting the Saiyans can naturally transform into their ape forms which puts them much higher.

>>156434102
Not really. Goku's power when he arrived on Namek was said to be beyond the limit of what regular Saiyans can achieve.

>>156434152
No that's not how it works. To put it in a way you can understand the gene is basically like freckles. You either have it or you don't just like blue eyes. You can't be a half Saiyan. You pretty much either get it or you're screwed.

I'm going to assume Pan from GT for example didn't get the gene which is why she wasn't able to transform but was still able to use power like all humans if you take Videl for example.

>>156434232
Because none of them really trained so that was a theory at best. Take Goku's dad for example? He trained and what happened?

>>156434278
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nqcOO01ZhRs

>>156434278
He died weaker than Vegeta.

>>156434243
pan is a 2nd generation. so less saiyan blood.

I don't know about genetics, man. but I'm pretty sure there's german blood in my veins and I'm 5'6 not blonde and pretty latino.

what gene. ozaru thing?
what if they removed the tail immediately?
I don't know how it was

>>156434278
He would've lost to Frieza's 2nd form even as a Super Saiyan.

>>156434432
No it's not. It's because she didn't get the gene. It's not because she "got less Saiyan blood" anon. Her kids can still get the gene from her and be able to transform.

>>156434464
He barely even trained though and got that much power? All I'm saying is you give the average Saiyan as much training as Piccolo's full self puts himself through and the Saiyan is going to win. Hell, he trained Gohan and do you think Piccolo is going to do anything to Ss2 Gohan?

>>156427023
Because of super Saiyan bullshit.
Goku only surpassed Frieza in terms of strength recently, confirmed when Beerus first meets him and says Goku (in his base form) wasn't strong enough to defeat Frieza, even 15ish years after it happened. It's just because going Super Saiyan makes you like 50x stronger if Kanzenshu is to be believed that fucks up people's perspective of how strong someone really is. It also forever doomed every non-Saiyan of their relevance.

>>156434597
well to me x50 multiplier is kinda nice. since according to that.

ssj kid goten, kid trunks and bardoc are a lot weaker than ssj goku (vs frieza).
so what about goku x20 kaioken when he was fighting vegeta for the first time.

>>156434720
That's because Goku is kinda like Piccolo where he does nothing but train so he kinda deserves to have a strong base form although I think Gohan had the strongest base form out of all the z fighters at one point by a large amount.

>>156432866
Isn't Piccolo weakened because the biggest part went to Kami, who is protecting the Earth?

>>156431593
Puar pls

>>156434243
You're talking out of your ass. That is how it works in Toriyama.

>>156431606
Nah, I was referring to when they had Vegeta with red hair in the anime, only for Toriyama to tell them that was wrong.

>>156436202
No really. This applies for Krillin and Tenshinhan too, especially Krillin as he's the strongest human

>>156427023
for U7, the answer is obvious
because saiyans can turn into giant fucking monkeys with 10x the power and wreck shit.
a fairly unremarkable saiyan such as Radditz would be strong enough to give all but Frieza's top elites a run for their money when Oozaru.
He'd be stronger than literally all but 2 nameks ever established (3 if you count the nameless namekian as separate from post-fusion piccolo)
Stronger than all but 2 of Frieza's race.
Stronger than all but ~3 humans.
Aside from Gods, Angels, and Demons, can you think of a race that has more than, say, 5 members that are stronger than 15k battle power?
Now compare that to saiyans, who had hundreds.
Not only that, but let's just compare the top members of the race.

There are 5 Saiyans that have gone SS. They are outliers, sure. But Saiyans are not a prolific race. They're fairly small in number, Dragon Ball Minus even makes it sound like they can all fit in one city. At the very least their numbers are as small as Nameks.
Who have produced exactly one Namek we've ever known of to reach power comparable to a SS.
Frieza's race has produced 2.
Humans haven't produced ANY, though it's possible that absolute max powered Tien or Krillin were nipping at SS power (not counting Uub)
By literally every metric, the saiyans are the strongest race.

>>156434152
>>156434243
>>156434432
>>156434516

holy crap what is this mess?

First off, Vegeta speculated that Gohan was stronger because he was a hybrid. We don't know that for a fact, it's just a guess. Considering that Gohan gets treated as something special the whole time, but not Goten or Trunks, who don't get the same sort of power ups that Gohan gets, it's pretty obvious that it's something unique to Gohan.
Secondly, yes, Pan has a 99.9% chance of having less saiyan DNA than Gohan, Goten, or Trunks. Why? Because 50% of their DNA is saiyan, guaranteed. However, Gohan could have given her anywhere between 0% of his saiyan half, to 100% of his saiyan half. Which means literally anything less than 100% of his genetics going to her would translate into her having less saiyan DNA.
It's not like being half black and half white.
The genetic difference between white and black people is under 0.1%

Lastly, we have no idea what the genetic factor for becoming a super saiyan is, so we have no idea if it's A) tied to the gene that causes tail growth or B) it's own gene or C) the result of a combination of genes so it's impossible to say if Pan simply "doesn't have the gene"
Hell, theoretically it's possible she could "go super saiyan" with none of the visible differences, only ki differences.

>>156437977
Except that the Great Ape form has obvious weaknesses that any fighter strong enough could easily exploit.

>>156439324
>strong enough.

>>156431578
doesn't apply to half breeds, one of her parents could be some other alien race.

>>156440580
trunks is already supercyan hair color in superm right?

>>156440228
If the person they're fighting is strong enough that they have to use it, he's probably strong enough to just quickly cut their tail before they can complete their transformation.

>>156440786
>cut their tail before they can complete their transformation.
it's anime manga shit. no one can interrupt a transformation.

>>156427023
because he just kept making up new shit every week. He had nothing planned out

>>156440861
From a storytelling prespective, sure.
But it has been established that attacking mid powerup/transformation is possible, even if nobody really does it(Freeza 100%).
Vegeta was considered far below the Ginyu Force, even though his Great Ape form was stronger than all of them.

>>156441807
>Great Ape form was stronger than all of them.
1v1 I guess.

>>156427023

Considering Frieza's power without him ever having trained and compared to how much he improved within 4 months, I'd say Frieza's race has a lot more potential than saiyans do.

A shame he was brought back just to get killed again so fast.
It could've been a very interesting saga.

>>156427023
Cause of their Oozaru forms.

>>156428367
>learning the right techniques
Yeah, humans should just learn to go Super Saiyan. Oh, wait..

>>156442820
Frieza's family were freaks of nature. Other fridges aren't that ridiculously powerful.