Do Japs genuinely think this looks better

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>>156399255
than this

>>156399255
I prefer the first one.

>>156399256
>>156399255
Yes. Both in terms of design and assumed animation. I literally cannot hate Studio Orange CG

They think it's cheaper and that's what matters.

first one is more realistic and genuinely looks like a robot for war
second one is a fantasy made for babies

The problem with 3DCG usually isn't that it's 3D, but that the modelers and/or animators are shit.

>>156399255
Robots look better in cg.

>>156399255
>>156399256

They're not wrong. At all.

>>156399256
what a shit screenshot for comparison, are you even trying?

>>156399255
The entirety of R3's mechs will be 3DCG, keep crying

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>>156399941
cgi on it's own is cool but the animation always end up looking stiff as shit, when you cut corners with cgi it's way more apparent and janky as opposed to all the short cuts you can do with drawn animation

Mechas tend to look better when their slow. Fast moving mecha like the small Macross looks like shit, while big ones like the Frontier looks better.

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Looks better in motion.

>>156399255
>>156399256
I do, CG needs to be promoted more anyway

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>>156399256
Yes.

>>156400660
Nah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDMvaEpuDcc

>>156399255
I don't fucking know what's worse. Stiff looking CG or scenes drawn by a poor philipino animation studio
Japan needs to train more hand drawn animators god damn it or is it too much to ask for

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Is this the Orange thread?

>>156399256
Is that wing zero?

>>156401030
To think MJP was essentially a 24 episode tech demo for the company

>>156400815
>>156400875
>>156401030
Looks like shit to me, 3D models don't fit in 2D backgrounds, also the framerate is sub 20's.

>>156401147
It could just be your shit taste

>>156400891
>>156401030
What is movie is this? or when it come out?. I know is MJP. But i dont remember nothing of this in the serie or the ova of the second team.

>>156401218
It's the movie. Subs are on nyaa

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>>156401147
>implying any of those backgrounds were 2D

You need to get your eyes checked.

The thing I don't like about CG mechs is they tend to be overdesigned or overdetailed

It's as if being streamlined is a bad thing

>>156401266
It's because you can do more without suffering from QUALITY or stressing the animators. Just look at IBO's designs. They can only stay on model for 5 seconds at a time and 2 of those will be a still shot

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speaking of overdesigned CG mechs

>>156401315
I unironically like the base Valvrave design desu.

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>>156401206
2D will always be superior and more original, your CG is a cheap gimmick to save budget

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>>156401313

true CG animation means, it can retain more detail

but it also seems designers to go overboard

look at this busy design

>>156401363

Red and that blue was nice.

Green and Yellow needed to be streamlined a bit more

Neet Girl's was an effin Christmas Tree

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>>156399255
>Code Geass get's the 10/10 cgi team
>Gundam gets this

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>>156401465
At least there's Thunderbolt.

>>156401465
and this looks much better and less like 90's vidya cutscene

>>156401399
>more original

that literally doesn't mean anything. the fuck are you daying

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>>156401531
>this looks much better

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>>156401413
Get a load of this then.

I do like it for its ridiculousness.

>>156399829
Stfu the second one is not for babies wings are cool

>>156401244
you have to be a 31 year old virgin who collects toy figures to actually think this looks cool, mecha in general is really boring genre, Code Geass is only good because of Lelouch, everything else sucks

>>156399255
It's easier to animate.

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>>156401632
>using virgin as an insult on /a/
Stopped reading there.

Fuck Fafner.

>>156401632
Exactly some mechas are the exception ofc like Zeta but overall i too think mecha is boring

>>156401744
>Underage ESL

>>156401632
>Normalfag Redditor.

2017 /a/, everyone.

>>156399255
see >>156399829
if you want some quality 2d animated mechs you need to throw A LOT of money to the 2d animators.

or throw a lot of money to 3d animators who can render and animate gud

>>156401888
meant >>156399381

Why not both? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeO3wfsxab8

>>156401572

I think being in mostly one tone/color helps
less visual chaos
I suspect it's the reason why Fafner Exodus mechs look better

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>>156401632
>>you have to be a 31 year old virgin who collects toy figures to actually think this looks cool, mecha in general is really boring genre, Code Geass is only good because of Lelouch, everything else sucks


so this is the power of neo-/a/ huh

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>>156401934
I do like how different they look from most designs.

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Is Studio Orange working on anything this season?

>>156400815

Those physics are worse than in fucking Marvel movies.

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>>156400815

No, that looks like complete ass. I can't even tell what's going on. I wish I had select gifs on hand to explain it to you, but because it looks like complete and utter ass cause those blobs aren't affecting anything around them. For 10 ton mechs, all they're doing is splashing water around them a little. My car displaces more water at 4tons. Where's the terrain prints, the weight momentum, why do they flip around so much like they're being held up by strings?

Maybe if the CGI was at 60 or even 30 fps it would look good.

But at 12, it looks like claymation.

>>156399255
They're both pretty

Test

>>156402545
Stop trying to apply real world physics in a show where rollerskates are powerful enough to propel mechs vertically up between 2 walls.

CG is cancer

Japanese CG artists cant do a few things right:
>weight, they never animate this principle and get floating (animators fault)
>deformations on the rig usually create weird joints and odder movement (righer or modelers fault, not animator)
>mismatched frame rates to cut corners that end up looking shitty (studio not having time money or proper farms)
>shading/compositing on 2D backdrops or with 2D characters (either the actual conpositing, lighting, or the render, or the shader, whole lot of places to fuck up)

But as we saw from meme friends no ome gives a shit if animation sucks. GJ everyone.

>>156401363
I think the base VVVs were neat.

The show stealer robot wise was totally the Waffles though.

>>156401531
It looked good until the second half when they stopped animating.

Are they getting rid of jetpacks?

This is a good move

>>156399255
The problem with Akito wasn't the 3D machines but the piss poor spastic choreography and camera work. If they made the KFs behave more like they were supposed to and used less panning and spinning shots, it would have looked a lot better. Plus maybe a bit more frames per second for some of the filler scenes where the KFs can look absolutely horrible moving at ~6 FPS.

>>156401559
whose this cutey

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>>156404255
Aida from Gundam G no Reconguista.

>>156402807
It's CG, there is nothing preventing them from rendering it in 30, 60 or even 1000 fps. But they explicitly set lower framerate because 60 fps mecha animation actually looks extremely unnatural.

>>156405196
They set it lower because having render farms render it more costs money.
Thats why the FPS on cgi anime tends to be terrible

>>156405483
>5
Also because 60fps in shows looks really off.
Industry standard is 24fps for a reason

>>156405518
Because that was the best cameras could do back when hollywood was new.

It just became the standard because it was what everybody was used to.

>>156405483
>having render farms render it more costs money
Only if you're making full CGI movie like for example GANTZ:O with tons of polygons and light sources trying to look realistic.
Rendering those short mecha fights is relatively cheap. Doubling fps from 10 to 20 should not have any noticeable impact on budget.

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>>156399829
Engravings give you no tactical advantage whatsoever

There is a lot of weightlessness going on here. Come to think, the last CG anime I can remember where the mech actually looked somewhat heavy sometimes was Kuromukuro, and that one got to cheat on ground effects with anti-gravity hax.

>>156399255
Why would a robot need a cape?

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It is not a matter of taste, but available talent. The mecha genre was originally a genre that boomed in the 70s and 80s, meaning many animators had to learn the basics of animating giant robots and making the designs workable. As the decline in desire for mecha occurred, younger animators began to focus on drawing other things. You want to know why Digimon always tended to end up as bipedal humanlike warriors in their final forms? Because that's what animators knew how to draw well. That's a side note. As we transferred into the 00s the animators who needed to be able to draw and understand mecha in motion dwindled as the old generation faded out and a never ending stream of toy commercials was no longer pushed out. With the veteran artists all flocking to either Sunrise or Bones, leaving most other studios having to fall back to CGI and despite the fact that Sunrise DOES have a majority of the remaining competent mecha animators, they STILL don't have enough they can throw around and make mecha however they want without ending up needing CGI.

Now why does CGI work for mecha? Because mecha tend to be complex in design with a lot of working parts that need to be remembered. So with CGI you can have a model and you're set.

>>156401399
>cheap
Yes. CG is helping to make anime cheaper because the industry is not making as much money. It's the cheaper and faster option. I'd rather watch CG than see the studios shut down.
>More original
Are you actually retarded? Style of animation has literally nothing to do with originality.

>>156407305
this

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>>156399256
>>156399255
Yes. Definitely

You're in denial if you don't think it's not better, even in stills, and especially once animated.
R3 should have been CG too, especially when it's a TV series.

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Kuromukuro, Fafner, MJP and Bubuki are proof that CGI mecha can work well but people have such a kneejerk reaction to CGI it's sad.

I assume it's because I was in the generation that watched ZOIDs and Beast Wars when it aired on TV that I actually don't hate CGI mecha stuff.

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>>156408523
I think Geass Akito was better than MJP. MJP was a little too fast and the action suffered for that, the action was too fast for the framerate they choose

>>156400815
>LOOK I'M ANIMATING

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>>156400815
Wait, where the fuck is that from? I don't fucking remember this.

>>156401632
>durr durr virgin
this completely invalidated whatever argument you were trying to make

Most CG mecha feel like they don't really have any significant mass. There are exceptions, but many studios seem to think that CG is an excuse to have mechs dancing around the place like ninjas and landing hits that don't feel impactful enough.

>>156400815
Two frogs caught in mating ritual?

>>156408894
At some point you almost forget that there are actual people inside them, right?

>>156408921
Sometimes, yeah.

>>156408894
That's the majority of fucking mecha though, not a unique CGI complaint. You fucks always whine about this and then point to that one EoE fight

>>156399255
I'll kill myself if R3 has CG mechas

Has the new pv been released yet?

>>156409921
http://www.wikihow.com/Tie-a-Noose
Get practicing.

>>156401030
This series was great, best use of CG in anime that I've ever seen.

>>156401030
>that second of trying to shoot
>are you trying shoot me?
>get that shit out of my face.
I was so happy. usually its deer in the headlights instead of actually reacting before the MC shoots.

>>156408523
>Fafner
is that good to watch?

>>156401147
The framerate is a side effect of the .webm conversion. You'll need to see the original 1080p stream to get the full effect.

>>156401465
Given the same funding, the CGI team is going to get a better looking product in less time. People see hand drawn through nostalgia goggles and forget all the shitty animation throught the 80s and 90s.

>>156401632
So...you don't like /m/echa in general.

That's fine but why are you on this thread?

>>156400815
the sad part is that you can tell a lot of effort was put into this

>>156408838
>>156400815
The problem is that this stuff doesn't look like anime, it just looks like a video game at a shitty framerate. It's far to unnaturally smooth when coupled with actual animated scenes of people. I hoenstly prefer this >>156401465

>>156399255
Actually, yes. It does look better in motion.

>>156411463
Not as much as you'd think. In 3D animation, shifting your viewpoint is no harder than moving anything else in the scene. You can do zoom and pan shots for free, essentially.

>>156399381
CG is actually more expensive.

>>156411698
> It's far to unnaturally smooth when coupled with actual animated scenes of people

That implies that it's the hand drawn stuff that's at fault rather than the CGI.

And honestly, the framerate isn't an issue. Either you're watching it through a bad source or you're tacking on extra expectations you didn't ask from hand drawn.

>>156411463
It's only sad if you dislike it.

>>156412082
Thing is, you're ignoring that these aren't just basic shapes or ReBoot tier models.

The models and their geometry are quite complex, which extends both to their creation and to their animation routines, and professional camera work is also a discipline. The tech is there, but that's not the hard part. Not every idiot with a camera can do that, even if you think you could.

>>156402545
Code Geass mecha have always had the ability to jump and spin around in defiance of physics. Guren and Lancelot do that several times. Let's not get too up our own ass here.

>>156400815
The earlier scene inside the forest is better, but I like this one except for the flip in the middle. Seemed unnecessary.

>>156412133
In some cases yes, but that's because the hand drawn is taking short cuts with stock footage and modified stills.

>>156412133
The more you reuse a CG model and it's animations the more cost effective it is, as opposed to drawing it every time it's on screen.

>>156412466
The model itself takes a lot of work and, unless your production is either too simple or too cheap, the animations are only partially re-usable or even not at all in some cases. We're way past that now.

>>156412198
>The models and their geometry are quite complex, which extends both to their creation and to their animation routines, and professional camera work is also a discipline. The tech is there, but that's not the hard part. Not every idiot with a camera can do that, even if you think you could.

I'm not saying hard work and genius didn't go into this scene. I'm saying that a lot less work went into this scene as a CGI compared to doing it in 2D. As a result, artists can focus on the more subtle and impressive things like angles, lighting, and choreography.

>>156399256
>>156399255
both look like shit. poor choice of example.

>>156412583
It still results in less work than recreating the model for every frame.

>>156412693
Depends on whether it's on TV, an OVA or a movie. Anime has a lot of tricks and tips for making less of an effort if time or budget don't call for it.

Either way, I just hope they have some excuse to remove jetpacks.

Jetpacks were a mistake.

>>156412740
However, many of these tricks just plain look bad. Stock footage, for example, was one of SEED's failings. Other times, we get modified stills like we see in IBO.

Regardless, without the ability to merely import a model into a scene you still end up with more work in a 2D production than a CGI for the same quality.

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>>156412871
Hey, Jetpacks can be fine

>>156412904
Not in code geass they aren't.

Battles were so lame in R2

>>156412878
Yeah, but those models tend to have individual bones and muscles, so to speak, even if they're not flesh and blood characters.

>>156412938
Eh, there were a few good battles in R2. Just not too many. I agree they were a little boring most of the time.

>>156401399
>>156401413
>>156399255
>imgur
you can't even take your screenshots to make a thread?

>>156413008
I just didn't like that everyone and their mother got special frames with jetpacks and beam weapons that can wipe out entire swaths of enemies at once. It allowed them to be lazy with battles.

The fights with hard weaponry and melee weapons were much more interesting to watch. The only battle I really remember enjoying was the one between Suzaku and Kallen at the end

>>156413115
I liked the early ones up to including episode 6 or so, which was the debut of the flight packs.

There was some okay stuff in episode 17 or 18.

"Wiping out everyone at once" wasn't happening every week.

>>156401780
>/a/
Sure thing.

>>156399381
>>156412133
It's wrong to think this is exclusively a monetary issue. The primary problems with 2D robots is the time needed for them, the people needed for them and how these necessities would effect the rest of the production and the schedule. The fact is that anime productions are increasingly hectic and messy and being able to hand over complicated and specific work like mechanical objects to a different team or studio makes everyone's lives a little easier, especially for any series where said mechanical objects are a recurring and important feature.

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>>156399255
the upside is no more QUALITY.

>>156412978
Sure, but there's a number of things you can do to automate the process. You can slave the limbs to the spine so that they move when you move the spine. You can tween between key frames so the less important ones are done automatically. You can do motion capture to get the skeletons done fast and use partial rendering to get a feel for what you're making before getting a full rendering.

>>156414554

It comes from other places though.

Sure the models may be pretty to look at, but some early CGI anime tended to be very stiff or janky.

Which I find surprising as Reboot solved it literally a decade earlier with inferior technology.

>>156415206
>You can do motion capture to get the skeletons done fast
Considering all the stiff motion I suspect that motion capture is still too much technical overhead for most studios. Plus it might not work well for some mecha designs, especially in space or when they do crazy backflips.

>>156415941
well yeah, you trade one devil for another.

>>156415968
Motion capture is usually reserved for social interaction. Body language tends to be kinda subtle and hard to get right.

For action scenes, it's easier to set key frames and tell the computer to automatically generate the transitions between them.

take>>156401244
for example. It's got this half second rhythm to it. I'm betting they just made the frames at the half second marks and then had the computer sort out the transitions between them. Later, they'd throw in effects like sparks and dust and touch up the timing.

As a result, they're down to maybe 1/6th the work from hand drawing.

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Did anyone else actually really like the cgi mecha in Kuromukuro?
I liked that it was slow enough for me to actually tell what the fuck was happening

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>>156402545

I think this was the last fight that really did momentum and weight well.

>>156416875
I was fine with it. Maybe a little clumsy, maybe a bit bland but there's good rhythm and everything is easy to track.

>>156416875
I did. It wasn't prefect but they did a good job balancing out the weight against speed for the action.

>>156417858
Anything is better than when 2d fights start saving money by turning both fighters into balls or streaks of light.

>>156417896
People do that?

>>156402545
>Shitty generic cute girl image
>A .gif not a webm

Back to MAL

>>156418512
Have you not seen where things start moving at H-HAYAI speeds and you can't even see them

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>>156417896
But then you get this shit.

>>156419018
>His mind is too slow to appreciate MJP's animation
I just feel sorry for you

>>156401030
Fucking hell I'd totally forgotten this was coming out

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>>156419018
And it was amazing.

>>156401030
Is that a pokemon fighting a couple of gundams?

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>>156401030
Did someone say Orange?

>>156408523
i liked kuromukuro a lot and the cg was passable at best

>>156408523
Man, Bubuki was a fine ride.