Are backgrounds overrated?

>>156227158
Why are you complaining about a lack of backgrounds in such small panels?

>>156227158
No.

Read the shiki manga.
Enjoy the uncanny valley.
Be a better art critic for it.
Become a superior human to what that what you were before even if you hate the plot.

>>156227158
This page is so unfocused. The layout is terrible, the center panel is going to be split in half if you were reading this in print, the flow of panels from left to right is this awkward sequence.

The only panels that work are the last two because Brooks is supposed to be an unexpected event so the fact that he kind of sneaks in during a big scene works. Everything else is mediocre for Oda, I've seen him do much better than this.

>>156227158
This panel layout was so disjointed, I didn't know what plot point we should be focusing on.

>>156228321
Oda is invariably bad at paneling and visual storytelling, his "best" was early One Piece and he started foregoing anything to do with good layout around Alabasta when he settled into the massively complicated arc structures as a MO and had to cram too much information into chapters (aggravated since the timeskip)

One Piece's art is utter dogshit.

>>156231182
I will admit that somehow at some point it has lost the charm the early chapters had.

Early One Piece feels so comfy, nowadays it still has a lot of great stuff but the art is... i don't know, just not the same.

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Man, Oda didn't learn anything from Toriyama and his god tier paneling in dragon ball

>>156231804
Toriyama was a fucking monster.

>>156231804
I just had a converstation with someone about how Oda picked up some bad habits from Toriyama but now I feel like a goddam liar.

>wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords
One Piece should be a book desu.

>>156231804
How is this "paneling" god tier anyways? It merely serves it's purpose but there is absolutely nothing special about it.


I mean, I know it's a weekly manga and all that but it still looks pretty fucking lazy overall.

>this jarring universal line weight
>absolutely zero shading anywhere
>lazy ass action lines drawn on top of linework instead of supplementing it
>barebones paneling that looks like a bunch of generic presets in clip paint studio

It's extremely mediocre and there is absolutely nothing worth praising here.

Oh come, One Piece looks decent. It still looks way better than Bleach, that's for sure.

>>156228321
This

>>156227158

Kubo and Oda went out to drink, and Kubo pitched some stuff to Oda.

>>156232855
It set the precedent for action manga, most other titles with similar themes ended up copying Toriyama.

>>156232855
>How is this "paneling" god tier anyways?
I won't say it's God tier, but it has a far better flow of action from panel to panel than a lot of fights I've seen in One PIece. Even with the large amount of sparse white or speedline filled backgrounds I can keep an idea of where in space these characters are because Toriyama at least keeps the ground consistent. And there are no awkward perspective shifts in the fight choreography, I see the windup to hits and t he next panel shows the impact. Everything works.

This right here is "above average" fight panelling, there still are some awkward spaces between panels like you mentioned, but all in all the pages work.

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>>156227158
>>156227158

>Jinbe haters are so buttdevastated that they need to make threads bitching about paneling

I love One Piece but this page really is a mess. If there were backgrounds then it would just be more even more convoluted than it is.

Just cutting out some of the pointless reaction shots would improve it, and instead of a 2 page spread, do a page for Jinbei's moment, then a page with Mom's reaction on the top half and Brook smashing the photo on the bottom half.

Oda is not infallible, this is easily some of his worst composition in a while.

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>>156228420
That's what you are supposed to do. What's your wrong with you guys?

>>156233258
>>156228321
>>156229440
Tell me more. What's wrong with this page?

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>>156233413
And these salty tears will flow for years.

>>156233556
It looks like the shitty screencaps the One Piecefags do to shitpost.

Mama's gonna be one shot by Luffy and everyone is gonna be disappointed that a Yonko was so weak. The pacing is faster then normal, Oda just wants to end the series.

>>156233674
The symmetry isn't perfect that's your problem?

>>156233853
The "symmetry" is fine, but the placement is terrible. These forced use of double pages Oda does is getting progressively worse.

>>156233556
The problem is good panellling in my opinion, gives a smooth "Right >left" (flipped in western comics) and "Top > Down" read for word bubbles. As well as just general areas for the eyes to track.

Your pic saves me the trouble of doing it myself, but the page wants to you read straight down, then jump back to the top. Go left then down again to a word bubble that is opposite where you were just at, then read a huge block in the middle that seems disconnected from the rest of the page. finally you need to go back to the top and read down in what is arguably the best 3 panels in the sequence.

If this were done differently I would do 2 or 3 separate pages, make one just jinbei announcing his resolve and the sake cup. Page 2 would be reactions and the beginnings of Big Mama. and if a page 3 is needed, have it be a larger shot of her charging up her attack, insert the reactions of her family, and then end with small panels of Brooks carrying the crew once again.

As it is this looks more like a collage I would find on Imgur than a professional comic book.

>>156227158
That looks good.
Dropped OP years ago since I dislike the overall cluttered art style.

>>156231804
For some reason I kind of hated Toriyama's art for most of my life but in recent years I've come to really appreciate it. That paneling/composition flow, these poses, the facial expressions look great even though I'm looking at a fight between two character I couldn't give a shit for.

>>156228321
I honestly thought at first that this was a random collage of panels rather than an actual 2-page spread

>>156233981
>I'm too retarded to read a page, this is Oda's fault.

>>156234725
Yeah, the guy I talked too about Oda's panelling said something similar. Do you all not have a proper retort except to call people dumb? I just wrote a solid paragraph on how the page should be read and why I think it's wrong. Nowhere did I say I couldn't understand it, just that the flow is very poor from panel groupings to panel groupings.

Care to tell me why you think the page is good since apparently your smarter than me?

>>156234819
I'm sorry dude but i agree with him. If you have a functioning brain, often read mangas and don't suffer from adhd you should be able to read that smoothly.

>>156235202
That's a nice exaggeration, way to miss the point of his reasoning.

>>156235547
>Your pic saves me the trouble of doing it myself, but the page wants to you read straight down, then jump back to the top. Go left then down again to a word bubble that is opposite where you were just at, then read a huge block in the middle that seems disconnected from the rest of the page. finally you need to go back to the top and read down in what is arguably the best 3 panels in the sequence.
>As well as just general areas for the eyes to track.
I'm perfectly on point.

>>156227158
In general I wouldn't say so. If you're specifically talking about that page I don't think there is any need for more background there. The characters fill out everything well enough and backgounds would only make it look more cluttered.

>>156235639
That's his example on why the awkward panelling detriments the pages composition, though.

>>156235639
>I'm perfectly on point.
But neither you nor the other guy have explained why the paneling works. You don't think the middle panel jimbei sitting down seems to be out of place? You don't think the paneling could be a little bit more structured so the word bubbles flow into each other?

All either you can say is that you have to be smarter to read it smoothly

>>156227158
gotta love how fucking Luffy was freaking out about a yonkou right after Jinbe's badass speech

>>156227158
Not really. They are necessary.

>>156236381
>You don't think the middle panel jimbei sitting down seems to be out of place?
No. It's there because it's the central point in the narration and so it's central point on the page as well. Thoses pages are about Jinbei joining the crew.

>>156236907
That's true. But there's a lot of white space surrounding some of the panel's near it and it gives the impression that the panel is 'inserted' in there rather than 'integrated' if you understand what I'm saying. Once again I understand the intention of the page but it seems like all these elements were not thoughtfully place together. And I really do think a two-page spread it to the detriment of the overall effect.

>>156237393
>But there's a lot of white space surrounding some of the panel's near it
Because it's going to be printed in a book you moron.

>>156237570
I'm already acknowledged the middle margin I'm talking more about the other side's that. Some of the panel seem to be a lot smaller than they should be and create some dead space that looks awkward. Again and if you read my original paragraph I've acknowledged every single thing you're talking about but at the end of the day the paneling and the composition looks off. The pages not in comprehensible but it doesn't look like the best Oda could do with a two-page spread that's supposed to be doing as much as this one is trying.

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>>156231804
It has been centuries and I still can't unsee it.

>>156233981
I get what you're saying, but this spread should be read as essentially three columns, something that would be a bit more clear with the page divide.

First column has a clear subject: Jinbe insulting Big Mom, her reaction. Second column has a clear subject, Jinbe breaking apart from the Big Mom pirates, with the central action being a parting offering and the top and bottom panels the various other characters reactions. Jinbe's action here is the focal of the piece, so it gets the largest panel and is immediately what you see when you look at the page.

Final column is Big Mom attacking Jinbe and Brook breaking the picture.

>>156233981
It's a lot clearer to the japanese I would imagine since they are used to UP > Down more than the west. It is obviously separated into multiple columns.

>>156233981
>If this were done differently I would do 2 or 3 separate pages, make one just jinbei announcing his resolve and the sake cup. Page 2 would be reactions and the beginnings of Big Mama. and if a page 3 is needed, have it be a larger shot of her charging up her attack, insert the reactions of her family, and then end with small panels of Brooks carrying the crew once again.
I'm pretty sure Oda is doing it in this format because he doesn't have that luxury. He's been going at a really fast pace to move the plot forward.

>>156231804
Toriyama was the last of the school of mangaka's that followed western manga (60's-90's) paneling styles.

>>156242286
I agree that this is probably a big part of it. Those panels are laid out almost exactly how the manga's text is laid out. It's far busier when it's at odds with horizontal text moving in the opposite direction as the panel layout.

>>156227158

Honestly I feel the main problem of this page is due to the lack of pages.

This two pages is clearly trying to show three major scenes that normally would nessaictate at least three pages to give a proper "flow" to it.

>>156239152
>the end of the day the paneling and the composition looks off
Yes, if you have never read a manga in your life. Or a comic book. Or anything printed with images on it.

>>156231182
>It's shit because I don't like it!

>>156231182
Over the top design that deviates from the common manga art style doesn't equal garbage.

>>156227158
Is no one else gonna point out that there are TWO watermarks on that page?

Also I did not have a problem with that page, it's a dramatic moment so the focus is on the characters.

>>156231804
I never really truly liked Dragon Ball, even as a kid, even I still have all the 42 volumes, but I gotta say it was really enjoyable to read it, because it was fast, and easy to follow. It was like watching a slide movie. About OP, I think the apex was either the first 12 numbers, end of Alabasta arc, or end of Enies Lobby arc... The Supernovas introduction was also a pretty good arc, but ever since then, it got less and less interesting... I for once really disliked the fight with Doflamingo, or that whole arc, and even now I can't really see OP like that beautiful diamond I saw it as a decade or so ago... Maybe it's me, or maybe it's just Oda, but for me OP turned from my one of the best series (easily top 3) to a upper-medium series nowadays.

>>156234603
I did too, cause of the lack of a border in the middle panel

Is Brook the most underrated character in this entire series?

What a cheeky little bone cunt.

>>156249468
I'd say so yeah.