Was he actually evil?

no, just really cute.

>>156213180
>Not taking each anime for what is an understanding its themes despite personally disagreeing with them.
Autism.
But if I saw him in real life I'd cheer for him.

Objectively yes.

>literal sociopath
>doesn't care what happens to his test subjects as long as goals are advanced
the above can be argued to death, but...

>Rebellion
>anti-entropy goals are met at a steady pace thanks to Madokami
>he's impatient and decides to screw Homuhomu over just to satisfy curiosity about Madokami / speed things up a bit
Kyubey's kind don't even have the redeeming virtue of "but we're trying to save the universe" to counter the inhumane treatment of other sapients. They had that goal achieved, but decided dickery was more valuable than success, so there goes that excuse.

Definitely evil.

The universe is fairly young thermodynamically speaking, so I didn't really understand his point. It would also be nice to have some hard data regarding what we're getting for each meguca sacrifice. If he's siphoning off our shit for the benefit lf his own trillion year race and no one else, he's just an ordinary fucking jew.

No because good and evil are empty concepts and just because something upsets humans doesn't mean it's a big deal. That said, I personally dislike him and would try to fuck him over because I don't care whether or not good or evil exists, people matter to me and that's good enough. The people alive today are what are important to me, not the dead or those who don't even exist. I'd rather every human alive today get to live out the rest of their lives in happiness and be the last generation of humanity than sacrifice a single person for some immaterial future.

>>156213180
Evil is a human concept. They are literally a species that runs only on logic. Is it evil to only run on logic? Are computers evil? Will robots be evil? Or is evil just the word we gave what we don't like to do because humans are ruled by morals, things that vary from place to place even on our own planet. How can anything be evil in that case?

I think however he knows what he was doing in terms of when he revealed information. He has dealt with Magical Girls before, he knew that this new group of girls would probably find soul gems disgusting, and he knew they would probably be horrified to learn they would one day become witches too. That's why he withholds the information until necessary and blames them for not thinking to ask about every detail (Which to be fair, if you're entering a contract you should know, but they're also young girls who aren't going to do that for a chance to be magical girls).

But witholding information is just as bad as lying. Logically he sees no reason to lose out on magical girls who can't go back once they become magical girls by telling them every detail up front, so he just waits until they ask or he has to mention it.

I don't think he's evil I think humans are just stupid. It's well accepted by many that if aliens did contact us and they didn't rule by emotions like we did, they'd probably find even our most brilliant minds to be absolute retards.

>>156213180
He's True Neutral so no.

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>>156213180
Nope, in the end his goal was valid. He could've still gone to greater lengths to inform meguca of what his contract actually entails, and should've realized that they might not have fully grasped what was at stake. If you're supposed to be so smart, you ought to be able to understand the shortcomings of others.

Would humans class him (it) as evil? Yes.

Would he (it) class himself (itself) as evil? No.

I don't think he was evil. Just has different priorities. People take his contract willingly, and the others never bothered asking about the fine print. For example
>Where do the witches come from originally?
>How come Soul gems look a lot like grief seeds?
>How come grief seeds power up soul gems?
>What happens when I run out of magic power?

He never lies to the girls. The girls are just young, naive and stupid for thinking "wow all i have to do to get a wish that can get me nearly anything is get cool powers and fight things with it?" IF they've watched any tv show involving contracts theyd know to look into the details of something that seems too good to be true

>>156216420
You could make an argument for Lawful Evil, but he's Lawful Neutral.

>>156213516
>>Rebellion
>>anti-entropy goals are met at a steady pace thanks to Madokami
>>he's impatient and decides to screw Homuhomu over just to satisfy curiosity about Madokami / speed things up a bit
Bullshit. You're basically telling them to not progress with their technology here. They learned of a much more effective method of combating entropy and you don't want them to investigate it? You give SCIENCE! a bad name, anon.

>>156213180
He is the enemy of love and justice. He must be destroyed.

>>156216537
Don't hate the player, hate the game. The universe is that cruel to begin with. It took a literal universal rewrite for it to suck just a little less.

>>156216496
If you have only one possible test case and the testing could feasibly destroy it, the experiment cannot logically proceed due to irreproducible results.

>>156216588
The test case is going to go away soon. You're saying to let this one and only chance go without even trying. People like you are why Kyubey said humanity would still be living in caves if they hadn't shown up.

>>156216588
Kyubey is not trying to get published, he's trying to save the universe.

>>156216124
If they only wanted to save themselves, they'd go back in time to the earliest time their bodies existed at the end over and over until they got bored. They clearly want to beat entropy, and preserve the potential for new life to occur indefinitely in general.

>>156216686
There's no point to saving the universe, only saving people.

>>156216420
They're not true neutral. They know humans don't like having their souls ripped out of their bodies but they do it anyway without telling them, just like they don't tell them about becoming witches. "You didn't ask" isn't valid when they already know that humans consider it a bad thing.

>>156216721
>they'd go back in time
If they could even do this. They're not omniscient or omnipotent.

>>156216731
For you.

>>156216752
If they can impart the ability to Homura, they can surely do it themselves.

>>156216750
Considering there's no such thing as an afterlife, and they are right in that keeping it in their body would only hinder them in battle, it's more practical than malicious on their part.

>>156216769
They claim to not understand how wishes work, saying they defy rational explanation, and never actually tell lies.

>>156216686
The universe is already saved after the Madokami reboot. There is no logical reason to further development of grief-harvesting technology.

>>156216769
Not necessarily. That's kind of the whole point in fact, humans have emotions, which are the source of magic.

>>156216826
Well, in the continuity where Madoka's will be done, Homura has the same powers. They can study her, and learn to do it themselves, and definitely would.

>>156216862
>Well, in the continuity where Madoka's will be done, Homura has the same powers.
?
She does not have the time buckler in the Madokami-verse. That would seem to imply she does not have time magic. Especially since she has a bow instead.

>>156216828
Because between the slow and agonizing method where you have to constantly work with magical girls to harvest energy over a ridiculously long period of time, or the much quicker instantaneous method of harvesting Madokami for all the energy you need at once, who wouldn't choose the latter? Especially since Homura is the only link and once she passes away, they would never have the chance to do this ever again.

>>156216496
>You're basically telling them to not progress with their technology here.
If you ignore morality in favor of technological advancement, that's pretty much the definition of evil, which was the point

>>156216721
Or they're already bored. My point stands: they're the ultimate globalists, they provide no benefit to us, and they have to go back. The idea that entropy is also retarded and impossible, so its far more likely that killing megucas is how these sick fucks get hard.

>>156216933
*the idea that entropy can be beat

>>156216931
Morality of one person versus that of the entire universe? Are you fucking seriously joking me?

>>156216933
>>156216968
>they provide no benefit to us
But they do.

>The idea that entropy is also retarded and impossible, so its far more likely that killing megucas is how these sick fucks get hard.
Just because it's too complex for you to understand doesn't make it a lie.

I'm with Them.

>>156216972
Again, the point was that they could save the universe with the current method, they just wanted something easier.

>>156213180
He's worse than evil. He has no concept of morality. To be evil is to understand what you're doing is wrong and do it anyway. The only value Kyubey has is what will advance his own agenda.

This is why we should never build a strong AI

>>156216831
So do dogs. Why use humans?

>>156216933
> they provide no benefit to us,
Pay attention, anon. It's pretty much the fact that it's Kyubey's interaction with humanity is humanity are able to advance technological as a race. They are providing a huge benefit to you.

>>156217060
I doubt dogs' emotions are anywhere near as strong as humans'. Same reason they use teenage girls, specifically.

>>156213180
More like coward, who fears cycles.

>>156217032
Well when you put it that way, of course its evil, but his intentions were for the benefit of the entire universe along with his/her own.

>>156217029
The current method is horrendously slow and horribly inefficient, not to mention the only person that can link to Madokami is going to go away soon. You're telling them to just give up and don't take a chance because one person is one person too many for a sacrifice for the entire universe.

>>156216931
Morality and science are mutually exclusive.

>>156216909
This answer presumes a sense of urgency to the saving of the universe, when the Incubators are quite clearly playing the long game. You're assigning emotion-based motivations to a race that doesn't have any

1. if you're correct, then that implies the Incubators do in fact have emotions, making their lack of empathy toward humans a point to find fault in. If they have emotions, they are no longer off of a humanocentric morality compass, and their actions can be clearly judged as evil.

2. otherwise you're incorrect about their motivations, and they're still possibly evil, but most definitely too stupid to be allowed to hold responsibility for the ultimate fate of the universe.

>>156217060
Wasn't there a fan theory about one of the witches being from a female dog?

>>156217032
We won't build one. It'll emerge out of smaller systems designed to analyze us for the purposes of personalized manipulation for the economic benefit of people just as susceptible to said manipulation.

>>156217157
That's why I said he's not evil. He's something worse than evil, he's complete amoral without a full ethical framework to restrain him. He's intentionally avoiding giving his subjects the information they would need to make an informed decision because he knows from previous experience how they would react to know the full truth. He satisfies whatever ethical framework his race works under by being willing to answer if they ask, but he knows they don't even have enough information to know what questions they should be asking.

>>156217253
The fuck are you talking about? In between a choice of a slow and inefficient method, and a much faster and more efficient one, why would they pick the former over the latter, especially since the latter has a time limit before it can no longer be attempted? This has nothing to do with emotions, this is pure pragmatism.

>>156217105
Dogs will sometimes commit suicide if their packs/owners reject them.

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>>156213516
>If kyubey didnt do this everyone in the universe would die eventually
>That includes earth
>somehow magic experiments that kill a few lolis is abhorrent in the grand scheme of things
hmmmm

>>156217318
I'm pretty sure teenage girls commit way more suicide than dogs

>>156217313
Pragmatism would tell you to pick a sure thing over a gamble.

>>156217063
You guys are always so clever but you never seem to question whether he is simply lying. This idea that magical girls advance technology is outlandish and not in accord with any of the historical record. He simply asserts it and you swallow it like everything else he says.

You assume he doesn't lie because he admits to lying by omission. This is seriously your fucking reasoning: anyone who goes to that length to lie by omission couldn't be an ordinary damn liar, right? You are a con artists dream.

And entropy increases. QB says killing mecugas retards that... how? No scientific reason is adanced.

So he is saying shit that is unscientific and ahistorical and you just buy it wholesale and go from there. The problem is the source.

>>156217329
>arguing the first point, ignoring the "this can be argued to death"
>literally arguing against the preamble rather than the argument
the driver of your short yellow bus must be so proud of your reading comprehension skills

>>156217346
Then why not use lemmings?

>>156217401
Damn
That's foolproof

>>156217401
Lemming's don't actually do that. That idea came from a documentary where the filmmaker threw them off an cliff to make it interesting

>>156217393
Given that he's the exposition character with no one to contradict him, we have no choice but to believe the broad strokes of what he tells us about the setting. If he was lying about all that shit, well, a) that would be pretty bad writing, and b) we'd have to completely re-think everything we thought we knew about the system. Not much point in entertaining the idea unless we get some evidence.

>>156217398
apologies anon, all I read was "Yes" and "definitely evil" I just wanted to fit in.

>>156217393
Of course he isn't lying. Madoka had personally lived through the entirety of the magical girl existence. If they are lying, she wouldn't have needed to created a situation where Kyubey needed to show up at Earth and interact with humanity. If they are lying when they are talking to Madoka before she ascended, she would have stopped them immediately in her Madokami form.

>>156217347
Pragmatism would have went for it considering if they had failed, they would have simply gone back to their old method. Remember, their main goal is to detect Madokami first. The harvesting part comes after proving she exists.

>>156217473
What is an unreliable narrator. He's a character in the show with his own agenda. It wouldn't be bad writing at all, it would be good writing, because he's framed almost everyone who talks about him into criticizing the megucas for taking him at face value, and then turning around and doing that themselves. Maybe his purpose is to provide a lesson in humility.

>>156217594
>if they had failed, they would have simply gone back to their old method
Unless fucking around with a mysterious god-like force of nature backfires somehow.
But what are the chances of that possibly happening?

>>156217624
Making your exposition character a liar isn't inherently bad writing. Making your exposition character a liar with no evidence of this being the case, and no alternate exposition provided whatsoever, would be bad writing. There's the integrity of the narrative to consider before you can start making snide points about gullibility or whatever.

>>156217652
Anon, did you forget that it wasn't Madokami that fucked everything over? Everything had resolved rather peacefully until Homura went all 'Ai Yo'. Madoka was more than willing to let things continue as is since there is absolutely nothing Kyubey can do to get to her ever again after that incident, especially since Kyubey is indispensable to humanity's advancement and they are combating against Entropy.

>>156217624
I agree that him lying wouldn't in itself be bad writing, but the show doesn't provide much in the way of evidence that he's lying so it's probably safe to assume he's meant to be taken at face value.

To the rest of the cast, the truth value of what he says is irrelevant anyway.

>>156217733
The point is there were consequences, and that wouldn't have happened if they didn't meddle.

>>156217789
Said consequences was something that even Madokami couldn't have foreseen. Seriously, without Homura going all yandere at the end, it was a complete and utter victory for Madoka. The only consequence was Kyubey getting humbled and just continue their work as before.

>>156217742
>"It was due to our meddling that humans advanced! Without us, you'd still be cave-dwelling primates!"
>literally no evidence to support this assertion
either he's a nutter or a liar or both at that point.

>>156213180
The first time? No, he was just doing his work to save the universe, the second time? Yes, the problem was solved and he just went full jerk only to understand said universe, there was no work or good willing to save anything this time, just thirst for knowledgement.

The other thing that bugs me about the philosopher kings who love QB is that they don't even believe the ends justify the means. The ends are never specified precisely enough to weigh against the means. Surely there is a point, in universe-seconds of time purchased, that does not justify the means of killing a little girl.

Since you don't actually know, you can't believe that. You believe something far dumber, which is that the intention justifies the means.

>>156218259
wat? He's the exposition guy, he doesn't need evidence

>>156213516
>>156213180
kyubey doesn't give a single shit about evil and good. his species isn't human, they don't share human's moral and value.
He isn't evil from an objectiv point of view.
From the subjectiv point of view of an human he can be.