D-dont worry guys i am holding back

>>156020858
So is it easier to say that SSJ blue got nerfed, rather than saying everyone got a buff in power.

>>156020858
It's so fucking stupid. And what's the excuse retards constantly regurgitate?

>I-it's always been like this!

First of all, no it hasn't. Even the stupid shit that happened in Z at least had an explanation behind them that wasn't just a half-assed "DUDE TRAINING LMAO".

Second, even if the writing has always been like this, that still doesn't justify this flagrant bullshit. If your only defence for shit is to say it's always been shit, then guess what? It's still shit.

>>156020912
Pretty much.

>>156021069
DBZ's problem with power levels was that a few of the characters became so powerful the rest became irrelevant. At-least it was consistent though with power-levels.

DBZ super is shit tier. A ssj2 goku should be able to dominate krillen and 17 easily. Easily. Like it shouldn't even be a challenge. Yet both are able to stand up, even if momentarily, to SSJB.

It's just an anime series. Don't take it seriously.

>>156020858
They both say multiple times in the episode that they're holding back
and that's pathetic, whether rightfully or wrongly they feel that they need to do that every few scenes presumably so that no one gets upset (which they failed to do anyway). DB was always trashy braindead shit despite the spics on here swearing on their lives that it isn't and that I'm misremembering a series that I just finished rereading and was massively disappointed by, Super's trying to have it's cake and eat it by trying to be different but never straying too far from the usual established rules, resulting in no one being happy with the end product.

>>156021205
Toei has fully embraced the "as strong as it needs to be" mindset for this series.
It was never explictly stated but that's the way it is.

Do you remember when red SSJGod trading punches with beerus was a big deal, threatening the whole universe? Good: now Krillin vs N17 can do that too when they spar.

It's utter nonsense

>>156021316
>DB was always trashy braindead shit despite the spics on here swearing on their lives that it isn't and that I'm misremembering a series that I just finished rereading and was massively disappointed by,
Dragonball was never good for the plot, which was in fact garbage. It was dynamic, intense and over the top. It turned the shonen genre up to eleven.

However, DBS not only fails to do this, but is even worse plotwise as it's even more inconsistent, in a way that is bad even for DBZ standards

>>156021205
Power levels were fuck from the get go, Master roshi had/has a power level under 500 and could blow up the moon from earth with a Kamehameha wave.

What was even the point of Beerus waking up to go after SSG when he could have fought #17 just as well

>>156021450
Beerus did say he was at 80% power. I'm just glad that other characters are now relevant. Before, it reminded me of Inuyasha where Kagome, Sango, and Miroku were cheerleaders to Inuyasha.

>>156021691
He couldn't sense #17

>>156021450
And it's fucking stupid

We're supposed to believe Android 17 can kick Golden Freiza's ass?

>>156021743
That's not the powerlevel's fault, that's the shitty writing.

Vegeta has more than enough reason to be a side by side character with Goku, but Japan has a huge boner for "ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE IS GOOD, CAN'T BEAT RAW TALENT" and only let Goku do stuff.

>>156021762
Whis should known about #17

>>156021883
And why should he Anon, please tell us about the plot point that only you know that lead you to that conclusion.

>>156021865
>Japan has a huge boner for "ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE IS GOOD, CAN'T BEAT RAW TALENT"
This reminds me of Naruto going from a kid trying to defy fate to a shitty chosen one story vs alien ninjas

>>156021939
-Androids were stronger than frieza.
-Androids were involved in a huge alternate timeline crime.
-Magical staff sees everything.
-Gods are supposed to observe the average power level of a universe to avoid cancellation so #17 should stand out

Reminder that 17 actually has god ki which is why he said that Goku can transform like that too
He kept up with Goku and didnt even have to use his own god form

Jiren is going to pound goku into the ground but at the end gohan will get an asspull power up into mystic super saiyan blue

>>156020912
It's easier to say that DBS doesn't give a fuck about consistency and that SSB is the designated jobber form.

>>156022112
So basically you're making a completely unsubstantiated assumption.

k

>>156022112
>-Gods are supposed to observe the average power level of a universe to avoid cancellation so #17 should stand out

Wrong. Gods observe MORTAL levels. Why is this concept so hard for scrubs to understand?

Goten and trunks have more potential than gohan and they hate studying. Send their asses to train with whis for a year

>>156021743
>Beerus did say he was at 80% power.

Yeah, and now SSB, which is stronger than SSG, multiplied by 10, is still weaker than Beerus somehow. Because apparently toriyama thinks .80 x 10 < 1 is correct.

>>156022200
#17 is a mortal

>>156021691
What is the point of super saiyan form if half saiyans and humans can go way beyond it without much training?

>>156022200
And 17 is a mortal.

Vegeta will job against Toppo. Justice rear naked choke will defeat him

Only the narrator states the truth, so we don't know if 17 was bluffing or not

This powerlevelfag meltdown and autistic screeching is the greatest thing super has brought us. Can't wait for Goku to lose to Roshi.

>>156022200
durrr

>>156022262
Screaming and colorful auras.

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>>156020858

ChiChi is the worst character in dbs. She is holding my boy goten back

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>>156020858
Bulma is god tier boys

>>156021781
17 was much stronger than Frieza on his debut so yeah, why not?

>>156022299
Is acting amused at spot-on criticism the way you cope with your favorite anime not even trying to strive for quality or narrative sense?

I want Gohan to beat the crap out of female broly.

Jiren is going to beat up Hitto

>>156022378
Because Frieza trained like a madman and obtained a new transformation. 17 has been bullying poachers living in his cuckshed.

Someone make an image with roshi stepping on goku ssjb

Theory; Goku is using ssb so much cause the writers want to devalue it because goku is going to break out a new form in the tournament

>>156022510
Maybe, but that's still absolutely terrible.

>>156022299
This. Only the west gets angry at redundant shit like this. It's like I'm on the playground again with those three kids that got into fights over Trunks being stronger than Freeza.

>>156022510
This is, in fact, very likely.

I still can't get over the fact that Krillin is now stronger than DBZ Vegetto
(DBZ Vegetto not enough to fight beerus; SSG Goku much stronger than SSJ Vegetto; SSB Goku much stronger than SSG; Krillin can almost keep up with SSB Kamehameha)

>>156022590
Yeah, how dare people expect a semblance of consistency in the fighting of a fighting-centered vietnamese stage drama.

>>156022200
>Wrong. Gods observe MORTAL levels. Why is this concept so hard for scrubs to understand?

And you have a universe with a Robot god of desctruction.

>>156022234
Beerus power got retconned. He is way above Goku. And about the rest, power levels don't matter at all, Toriyama even said Roshi can get as strong as he wants.

Juat embrace that power levels stopped being a thing after Namek and Tori does what he wants.

>>156022678
shit, why didn't Super Buu just shoot Vegetto with a gun?
Who woulda thunk he was that weak!

You know what?
I don't even care. What right do I have to complain, I'm pirating the whole series anyway.

>>156022678
he isn't, he used his brain for the most part and 18 with the assist

>>156022720
Power levels never stopped being a thing, not even now. It's simply that now, power levels change arbitrarily to suit the needs of incompetent, uncaring writers. They're still a central plot device.

>>156022261
>>156022264
Why would 17 have a high mortal level?

>>156022748
>thunk

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>>156020858
Why are you guys getting so ass blasted about my boy 17?
He's been training off screen and ranging that park for a decade and could EASILY solo 3 friezas at the same time when he was introduced. Who gives a fuck if he's as strong as SS Blue now?

>>156021069
>goku going to namek
DUDE TRAINING
>gohan going from sub ssj to better than perfect cell
DUDE TRAINING
>goku getting decimated by piccolo to being able to fight younger king piccolo
DUDE WATER
>goku and piccolo barely beat raditz, krillin can kill five of him at once
DUDE TRAINING
>everyone gets bodied by the androids in an alternate timeline
DUDE TRAINING

honestly just fucking kill yourself or watch a different show m8. you're obviously not watching dbz. It's FUN that the rest of the cast is getting buffed/getting their fighting spirit back and getting involved. Goku still has jubai da under his belt so we all know he's going to be the strongest in the end.

>>156022756
You are in an anonymous board. You can complaint all you want

>>156022170
Don't ask for counter arguments if you can't even handle them. His reasoning is decent enough for us to think that they SHOULD have some kind of idea, but they don't. It's still logical.

>>156022790
Because he's many times stronger than the longtime emperor of the universe in his first appearance?

>>156022694
I see you're one of those kids who took those numbers seriously. Just go with the flow. Isn't having old characters like Tenshinhan and C17 good enough? They're as strong as Tori/Toto needs them to be. You people take this shit too seriously to the point where it makes me wonder if you all would be silent as mice if this were the Goku & Vegeta Show.

>>156022824
>DUDE TRAINING
"DUDE TRAINING" that they went at lengths to show and explain.

17's "dude training" is watching over a wildlife preserve punching poachers.

>>156022873
>I see you're one of those kids who took those numbers seriously.
Numbers are not important. Power relations are, however, because it's literally what the anime is about. So no, as much as I like Tien, having them suddenly be relevant with no explanation despite their falling off the powercreep train years ago is not okay.

If the plot makes no effort to explain power relationships, why should anyone care when 2 powers clash?

>>156022824
don't forget the zenkai boost out the ass

>>156022455
You don't know that. Frieza trained alone. C-17 might have trained like a madman for 10years.

>>156022851
Power level != mortal level

>hunt poachers and other normalfags out of the forest
>goes from lower than a Imperfect Cell to SSBlue level

BRAVO

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>>156022314
>>156022375
Sure.

>>156022873
They should just write a better plot where even a less powerful ally can help.

Honestly, the episode with Krillin was perfect until he was able to keep away SSB Goku's kamehameha.

Not only it was inconsistent but it also devalued the whole premise of "I'm not strong but I have clever tactics"
No, fuck, Krillin is a freaking monster. That kamehameha was several times stronger than the Genkidama that killed Kid Bu.

>>156023057
Explain what it is, then.

>>156022789
>t the needs of incompetent, uncaring writer
Tori does what he wants dude. Goku Blue? Humillated by a simple laser. Roshi is now part of the team for the multiverse tournament, because he just can. 17 got a huge power up.

It just work, man. Even Tori said in the original manga he just made things as he went by. Zamasu Goku humillated Blue Vegeta in base form and in SS in the manga.

>>156022889
piccolo has trained with the multiform technique and by LITERALLY doing nothing before. based 17 has infinite stamina and energy so he could have gotten this powerful just by fucking his wife non stop for all I care.

>>156023086

You don't know that retard. People are training alone without fighting anyone most of the time and still get crazy boost. Gohan biggest power-up came from a form of meditation.

>>156023143
>Tori does what he wants dude. Goku Blue? Humillated by a simple laser. Roshi is now part of the team for the multiverse tournament, because he just can. 17 got a huge power up.

Yes, he does what he wants because he knows people will eat it up anyway.That's why Super is so fucking bad.

>>156023086
Goku went from weaker than Blue to Toppo tier. 17 already had a bigger level than him.
Freeza trained just 4 months to reach Blue tier levels.

It just works, man.

>>156023226
Let's not pretend that Frieza becoming stronger than SSB in 4 months was good, either.
It was pretty damn terrible, it's just people have become desensitized to it by now.

>>156022959
>So no, as much as I like Tien, having them suddenly be relevant with no explanation despite their falling off the powercreep train years ago is not okay.
You don't like Tenshinhan. If you did, you'd know that he literally isolates himself from society to train. No, it's not an asspull to have him be strong, it makes sense to have him still sharp on his game compared to Yamcha and Krillin. Dragon Ball is returning to its techniques and strategies. The Power Tournament is based around skills, not who has the bigger energy beam. If you really like Dragon Ball, you'd be happy to see the non-saiyans getting a chance to shine but nope, fuck that.

Only the west does this. Japan is celebrating their return to the spotlight, but here we have literal crybabies making charts of power levels that were obsolete as quickly as they were introduced.

>>156023120
Doesn't matter. This is mostly SoL filler to lead up to the real meat and potatoes of the arc. Stop taking those scenes literally. I'm glad none of you are writing for this series, or we'd end up with Multiverse-tier faggotry.

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Holy shit guys. I like to imagine how you people who say "well powerlevels were always crap, it's not that bad..." look like in your daily lifes and I can't help but to think of a cuck who watches his wife getting slammed by a 9 incher saying "w-well at least she's happy so that makes me a good husband, r-right?"

Bad comparisson? No, no that is exactly what's happening here. You guys watch your childhood getting mutilated by a 9 incher and you fucking love it you sick bastards. Hell I watch it too which makes me kind of a faggot aswell but at least I accept that it's a pool of shit im diving in. You guys pretend it's hot chocolate.

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>>156023190
>Yes, he does what he wants because he knows people will eat it up anyway.
Maybe because his target audience are kids? And not adults that try to examine even the smallest detail.
>That's why Super is so fucking bad.
Is fun and serves his purpose as a canon continuation of Z.

>mfw all these pedros that won't be happy unless Toei explicitly explain how people train to reach a minimum level so that they can write their story arc about Goku learning lessons that he hasn't needed to from his friends and colleagues.

>>156023120
>the Genkidama that killed Kid Bu
Good think 18 wasn't there as an enemy to kick it off.

>>156023143
The laser thing actually was consistent with DBZ. Yajirobei (less than 1'000 power level, unable to fly) was able to cut through OOzaru Vegeta's tail (180'000) because we took him by surprise and used a sword.

We also saw that goku was able to parry Trunks's sword attacks with a finger AFTER he focused his aura on his finger.

Focusing your aura to strengthen your body was always a thing. Being weak to surprise attacks was also a thing.

Would have liked to see n17 versus zamasu

>>156023313
I really hope this is ironic.

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>>156023314
>Is fun and serves his purpose as a canon continuation of Z.
At this point it's more of a parody of its source material really.

>>156023309
>You don't like Tenshinhan. If you did, you'd know that he literally isolates himself from society to train.
He literally said he would give up fighting and left the fighters after cell.
>Dragon Ball is returning to its techniques and strategies.
Ahahahaha.
See, that would be good, IF there were competent people at the helm of DBS. But instead they just keep stacking power ups on goku and then try to pretend krillin's strategy let him hold back a goku blue energy beam.

No anon, the non-saiyans getting the spotlight is not good if it's not set up properly. It's fanfiction-tier writing.

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>>156023364
>when denial takes SSJ GOD tier levels

>speculation
>woah they will have weaker enemies so everyone can actually contribute
>reality
>everyone is blue level now

>>156023313
Give this man a medal.

>make a big deal about the God power up being on a whole different scope and unattainable through regular training
>other characters can brute force their way into similar levels of strength through training anyway
This is worse than how two human teenagers with some Red Ribbon tech in them could outclass the space emperor feared throughout the universe for his power

>>156023314
>Maybe because his target audience are kids?
You know you can make kid's shows that don't insult the viewer's intelligence, right?

>Is fun and serves his purpose as a canon continuation of Z.
It's bad and serves it's purpose to milk the shit out of the franchise.

>>156023416
>At this point it's more of a parody of its source material really.
That's also fine. I liked Neko Majin.

>>156023507
Unintentional self-parody is rarely funny, it's pitiful.

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>>156023456
>making analogies about your wife getting fuck
Well, I guess you were serious.

>>156023478
They aren't fighting Beerus, they're fighting Goku. It's not the same thing.

>mfw people don't see how God Ki was literally just a way to bring Goku into a new world which he wasn't top dog of any more.

>>156023314
>Maybe because his target audience are kids
It makes no sense that actual kids would be the target audience instead of people who grew up watching the series.

>>156023546
>Unintentional self-parody is rarely funny, it's pitiful.
The room is quite funny. And so it was Manos hands of fate.

>>156020858
You know, the worst thing about this isn't that it happened, it's that its happened so much. All of you saying
>b-b-but frieza!
and shit like that don't realize that the bad part is that this isnt anything out of the ordinary, it's just an ESPECIALLY exaggerated version.

In the vast majority of other shows this wouldn't be such a big deal, instead of going "Wow shit writing" the fanbase would think "Wow how did 17 get so strong? I cant wait until they expand upon this!" If fucking Shino of all people kicked Naruto's ass that would be the fan reaction, but we know not to expect anything from Toriyama/Toyataro except "kek, he trained".

Let this sink in. In terms of writing, DBS is worse than Nurutu.

>>156023576
>God Ki was literally just a way to bring Goku into a new world which he wasn't top dog of any more.
What's the point, when everyone else can do almost the same with no god ki?

What is the point of God Ki, anymore, besides fueling the king of jobber transformations?

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>>156023284
You're right. Look how he did it. Exercising and swallowing egg yolks? Fucking stupid. UGH.

>>156023444
>Ahahahaha.
>See, that would be good, IF there were competent people at the helm of DBS.
'Cause you can totally do better, right? Post those ideas, I wanna see what you're capable of.
>It's fanfiction-tier writing.
Take your time, I'll wait.

>>156023615
I did say "rarely".

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>>156023564
It's quite an eye opener isn't it. Then again I guess your wife being fucked by even more than just one black bull isn't even half way comparable to mutilating the rotten corpse of what once was Dragon Ball (Z), a show that a whole generation grew up with.

>>156022396
Narrative sense is Goku wanting to show his team a peek of what they will go up against without them being in real danger, or as powerlevelfags want, killing them.

"GOKU HAS TO KILL ALL HIS FRIENDS INSTANTLY IF HE FIGHTS THEM WTF I AM ANGRY" is not "spot-on criticism."

>>156023500
>You know you can make kid's shows that don't insult the viewer's intelligence, right?
It doesn't. It's just a shonen were strong people fight. Doesn't aspire to be something else than a comical work.
>It's bad and serves it's purpose to milk the shit out of the franchise.
I can't deny that, because it's true. But at least the original creator makes the script and story.
>>156023581
>It makes no sense that actual kids would be the target audience instead of people who grew up watching the series.
The anime is show in child schedule in Japan. You may not know it or like it, but this is aim for kids at a schedule for kids.

>>156023675
Krillin and Goku's kamehamehas clash, but Goku has trouble controlling the right amount of power in order to not kill Krillin, this makes him realize that being weak in a no kill scenario may be an handicap for strong opponents.
Goku stops the encounter and thanks Krillin for the lesson.

>>156023696
I guess then DBS is part of that rarely portion.

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>>156023701
>isn't even half way comparable to mutilating the rotten corpse of what once was Dragon Ball (Z), a show that a whole generation grew up with.
So you're being ironic. I felt scared for a moment, who even makes cucking analogies.

>>156023762
>I can't deny that, because it's true. But at least the original creator makes the script and story.
Actually most power levels inconsistencies don't appear in the manga or are at least explained better.
Toriyama doesn't really write the anime, he only decides the overall plot, details like Krillin being able to push back a SSB energy beam are left to Toei's writing staff

>>156023675
>'Cause you can totally do better, right? Post those ideas, I wanna see what you're capable of.
Is this really what your argument is reduced to?
I don't need to cook to know a meal tastes like shit.

But here's a hint, anyway:
"Don't keep powering up goku and vegeta and giving the saiyan-exclusive god powers if you want to pretend older weaker characters can be relevant."

Just an idea.

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>>156023808
Congratulations. You fixed a filler scene.
The highlight of your day.

Also, Dragon Ball was always a kids show. Even Z. Super is just following in its footsteps. It's the same shit.

>>156020858
>be a cuck raising two kids that arent even yours
>plebby redditors make him out to be some kind of hero

really makes you think

>>156023827
The only thing funny about DBS is the dogshit animation.

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>>156023922
Scared to confront reality?

>>156020912
no, it's that, ever since Future Trunks, older characters exist solely to be "cool".
to achieve this, characters become arbitrarily strong to the point of ridiculousness.

>>156023958
>Challenge him to do better
>He does in 3 seconds

>"Wooooow, good for you!"

Hahahah, you're asshurt as hell.

>>156023955
So, how would they get those powerups? We know Goku/Vegeta are going to be strongest of the group. There's no getting past that. So, how do we make these character on par with SSJ3 Goku at 132 Trillion? If Super is written for kids, surely an adult can do better. C'mon, don't talk a big game and choke at the last minute.

>>156023958
>Congratulations. You fixed a filler scene.
It was the condition (you) set for anon in order to win the argument, technically.

>>156024079
Not him but the issue has always been that being stronger automatically lets you tank nearly any attack. Stop making the gap between ability astronomical and you've solved the biggest problem.

>>156024079
>So, how would they get those powerups?

Here, another easy freebie:
Make god ki available for everyone. Treat god level as a level cap for mortals with strongly diminishing returns.

Bingo, now everyone's on the same stage again. So fucking hard.

Hell, let's go further. Let's assume everything up to now has already happened and the god forms are already in.
Make the tournament equalize powerlevels with Zeno's power, kind of like Mortal Kombat.

There you go, now anyone can be relevant for the tournament, and you can actually focus on technique and strategy.

Do you want more?

>>156024057
You're the asshurt one here, getting pissy over the numbers of a person's strength in an anime series.

>>156024128
And I told him that scene was filler and shouldn't be taken seriously. We know they're gonna join the tournament, so whatever happens in between really doesn't matter. If you realized that instead of crying about irrelevant things, this thread wouldn't exist.

>>156024233

>Ask him to fix a scene
>He does very easily
>still trying to save face
>b-but it's all irrelevant!

>>156024233
A bad filler is still a bad thing and if something's bad then it matters.

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>>156023720
Its funny how you turn it into irrational and unfair criticism when it's just about expecting it to makes sense to the bare fucking minimum.

>>156024202
>Make god ki available for everyone
>It's fanfiction-tier writing (Your words, not mine)
>Literally proposes a fanfiction-tier idea
The tournament isn't about killing, but elimination. We don't know how strong the other fighters will be. So yes, techniques like Taiyoken can come in handy and do the job. You're only looking at the saiyans instead of everyone else in the tournament. But you don't care about anyone that's not Goku or Vegeta.

>>156024199
And even the strongest can fall if they let their guard down. There are things that Goku can't do that the other participants can.

>>156024301
It is. You're the ones getting butthurt over it, so what does that say about you?

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>>156024233
Not even one of those other assholes you're talking with but you have to imagine it like this: While the other guys are being fed shit they wonder themselfes why the fuck they have to eat shit. You on the other hand swallow it whole, demand for more and tell the other guys that they should just chew their shit and shut the fuck up.

>>156024457
Taiyoken is of no benefit if the people you're fighting can move faster than you can react and are so much stronger than you that they could bodily throw you out with no issue.

Of course, the tournament will ignore that, but that's why the writing is shit.

>It is. You're the ones getting butthurt over it
You got butthurt enough to actually ask us to write something better if we could. When we did, you backpedaled. What does that say about you?

>Frieza trained 4 months
based toriyama

>17 trained 10 years
REEEEEE bullshit

powelevelfags even forgot that the cyborgs was stronger than frieza in Z,

>>156024694
>>based toriyama
lmoe

>>156024694
>powelevelfags even forgot that the cyborgs was stronger than frieza in Z,
what does this have to do with anything though?

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>>156024573
No backpedaling here, I'm simply calling you out for whining about things that have no purpose in the long run. No amount of mental gymnastics will mask the fact that you're crying over your so-called demigod being sized up by a mortal in a filler scene.

>>156024473
But it's not shit. I'm happy to see characters from the entire span of the original manga's run coming back to help out. You're just mad because there's no shitty numbers for you to wank and circlejerk over and that there may be some substance to hard work over genetics.

He is holding back a lot though. He does this to boost the confidence of his allies.

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>>156024867
>But it's not shit

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>>156024867
>I'm happy to see the old characters even though ithey are handled like stupid parodys of themselfes, also everything makes no sense at all but somehow I'm the sane one and you're mad as fuck, also something something numbers and powerlevels
- the post

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>>156024079
There are so many ways around it and every single one of them is better than fucking none, which was the writer's choice.

I miss the days when the issue was bad animation.

>>156020858
17 would handle Black and Zamasu.

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>>156025064
>>156024945
You're runnin' outta steam, boys. Not looking good.

>>156022824
You're a fucking retard. Those examples all had better justifications for power jumps than the stupid shit that Super keeps pulling. 17 being your favourite character doesn't justify this garbage.

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>>156025187
>He has hit multiple corners in the argument already but somehow just phases through them due to not acknowledging reality itself
>He's basically arguing against the whole thread with no arguments in store at all
>"Y-you're running otta steam there boys w-why don't we quit this already"
Comedy gold

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>>156025693
I'm waiting for some substance rather than KRILLIN IS WEAK AND SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO STAND UP TO SSJB REEEEEE BAD WRITING.

That's literally all I'm seeing on your side.

>>156025162
Must've been some strong-ass poachers. To bad that they weren't around when all that king piccolo stuff happened

Here again, the same retard who complain about SSJCabba now is saying to me that.....

Actual base form goku is still weaker than namek Freezer final form.....

How should I respond to this autist?

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>>156025831
>KRILLIN IS WEAK AND SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO STAND UP TO SSJB REEEEEE BAD WRITING.
What exactly is wrong with that statement and what exactly do you bring to the table to counter this? Because I've sure seen nothing except "I like it because I like it leave me alone"

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Daily reminder that /ourboy/ will make a comeback and that we're his chosen.
>have all godleads and demigods

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>>156026052

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>>156026052
let it go man

>>156024916
How would 17 even know about SSB? can he even perceive god ki?

90s DBZ tried a bit to have some kind of universe consistency though at its core it was just as bull shitty and whimsical only now without the pretense

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When the best Gohan will come back? Since everything is fucked up, I think this Gohan would kick some asses in this shitty tournament.

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>>156026211
No, that's kind of the exception in Dragon Ball Super. Everyone can be as strong as they need to be except Gohan, he's just kind of there to job, you know, to highlight a win of Roshi or Krillin even more

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>>156025943
I never said I like it, but I don't dislike nor hate it because MUH POWERLEVELS. I realize these episodes are supposed to fill in time until the manga gets to the tournament arc. I don't waste time wondering how many quadrillions of power Goku has when he's in Super Cyan. I'm waiting to see the new fighters and the old fighters coming back. I can't wait for those eighty fighters, a lot of cool designs so far. It's gonna be a blast, and I'm loving it even more now that you faggots are butthurt Freeza or Cell isn't being revived because muh powerlevels or that Roshi took a spot from some OC donut who just so happens to be SSJ3-tier.

My work here is done.

Reminder that gohan couldnt keep up with SS2 Goku

>>156026117
you gotta believe peper.

>Freeza used a gorillon elite soldiers to fight and do bussiness with less than 30 planets
Is he retarded?

>>156026341
Dude, bitch was rich, emperor and shit.

>>156026341
We have multiple armies, with hundreds of thousands soldiers, on our single planet, with only 5 continents

>>156026277
well you like eating shit, no one can stop you from it

>>156026341
There were probably more planets than that. He and Buu must have destroyed hundreds of them.

>>156026459
Frieza only destroyed planets when beerus told him to

>>156026277
Just because we complain about powerlevels does not mean we are hating it. We're still following it.

Writing of the series is still as bad as it could be when it comes down to consistency and just because it's possible to tolerate it or even to not care at all, it does not mean everybody should pretend it's not a flaw.

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Next recycled character?

>>156026420
And the scrubs bitch alone was enough to take on the two strongest beings on this planet one being the reincarnation of the demon lord who once lay waste to the world and no army could ever hope to defeat.

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>>156026484
>god of destruction
>hes job is literally destroying planets
>still ask others to do his job for hm
and they wonder why our universe is so low in rankings

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>>156023675
Goku has been training incorrectly for years. Freeza figured it out.

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>>156026557
theres still room for another goku clone

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>>156026277
>I never said i like it, it's just that shit doesn't taste that bad at all. I can even enjoy the small details in it's texture!

>>156026576
They should kill everyone but the gang and revive them with the DB later.
>dude lvl99 lmao

>>156026562
I don't understand your point

>>156026557
He's got Freeza genes and Android technology, too bad he also has jobber saiyajin genes to hold him back

>No. 17 is now the #2
>Vegeta is finally gone for good

thank fucking god
this will be a great change of pace

>>156020858
Why does he have an aura?

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Toei is pushing SSB because it's marketable, even if just going SSj2 would be enough. It's because SSB has become what SSj was during the beginning of the Android/Cell Saga, the "Oh shit things are getting serious" transformation. It makes sense from a marketing perspective even if it doesn't hold up to power-scaling consistency, or even good storytelling.

I don't even care though. As long as the Manga doesn't follow the Anime's example and the Anime keeps its bullshit within acceptable parameters while looking pretty, then I'll remain a happy anon.

>>156026420
>5 continents
We have 7 continents anon.

>>156026706
Well at least that would be hilarious

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>>156023675
now i realized that trunks sliced frieza in his 5th form but flying parts when resurrecting him were from 1th form, super literally can do a single thing right

>>156026706
Remember they didnt tell Vegeta what the tournament is about, so he will probably run off on his own to "beat" Gokus win count and get owned right away to prove that teams have to work together

>>156020858
You know what's the worst part about this? Toriyama had the PERFECT plot device to give everyone a power-up, but squandered it.

>What Toriyama could/should have done
Beerus really enjoys existing, Whis probably has some affection for U7 (or at the very least earth's food), so either one of them (or both) decide to train U7's greatest warriors until their tournament ready. Guys like Krillin and Roshi going from sub-Cell scrubs to stronger than kid Buu in 48 hours would be a bit of an asspull, but it wouldn't be the biggest asspull we've seen in dragonball.

>What we actually got
The Goku who now challenges the gods is somehow challenged by 17, who would most likely only barely be able to beat SSJ1 Goku. Given how transformation modifiers work in Dragonball, SSB at 1% should still be stronger than 17.

What a waste. On the plus side, I do like Krillin's Solar Flare x100. Krillin's "power up" makes sense because he didn't get stronger as much as he got smarter.

SSB is pretty shit in the anime but the manga seems to be more consistent.

I get they want to hype the kids by using Blue all the time, but it really ruins the effect.

The reason SSB has become so shit is simply because they've written themselves into a corner with the ridiculously overpowered shit that is SSB Kaioken so now they need to make SSB shittier to justify SSB Kaoiken being a necessary power up for Goku to keep up.

17 and 18 are human mutantswhich is why turning cyborg made them so strong

>>156026788
17 was as strong as SSJ1 10 years ago. He's a genetically engineered being who has been created in order to compete with the saiyan. There's literally nothing wrong with him being that strong after 10 years of training. I doubt he's as strong as SSB anyway it was just a sparing match.

>>156026866
This is so on point it hurts. You're right man.

>>156026866
This. By all rights, Goku should be downright unbeatable so now you're getting this nonsense. SSBK was a mistake because now the enemies need to scale to be that powerful.

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>>156026866
This is also why they made Vegeta stronger than Goku without it and explained how he has a slightly more mastered version of SSB.

>>156027013
He wasnt genetically engineered

>>156020858
SHould have been Krillian vs 17 to be honest. Let Krillian have his moment to shine.

17 gonna have to deal with his sister having a child and him being a uncle.

BUT NO. Goku has to hog the spotlight.

>>156027049
Pretty sure he was. What is he for you then?

>>156026866
This. It's why the manga hasn't let Goku do it yet because it's fucking broken and would destroy all tension in the series.

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>>156026758
Even more stupid is how they can fuck this up even though they got it correct in the storyboard.

>>156027049
>>156027115
I think the confusion comes from the English translation which refers to the androids as... well, androids. In Japanese I think they are referred to as shinzoningen(?), which means something among the lines of "artificial humans" or "enhanced humans". The translation into android makes sense at first glance because Japanese doesn't have a term for androids (other than simply lifting that term from Engrish), 17 was confirmed to be a robot and where the androids' power came from was never specifically explained in canon. Only later on did Toriyama explain (in interviews I think) that 17 and 18 were altered on a genetic level. That still fits the definition of shinzoningen, but not so much of android (which implies a machine in the form of a human).

>>156026866
Pretty much. There isn't going to be a new power up but for this tournament to not be a complete curbstomp with Goku dominating in SSBK x10 they needed to reign him back.

SSBK should have never been a thing.

>It's unacceptable that 17 is able to train to get stronger
Not that they did it in a good way but they do literally state that 17 is stronger than he once was. Making him stand up to SSB is perhaps a little stupid but SSB isn't really God level when you consider that beings like Beerus and Whis still aren't severly threatened by the form.

>>156027170
why is his head so big in anime?

>>156027297
SSBK is not bad in theory it's just they introduced it WAY too early. SSB should have been a dominant form for a long time until Goku fought another god level enemy like the Grand Priest and he pulled this form out to be able to fight with them. Him needing it against Hit, who's not even a god, is a joke honestly.

Has Vados ever given Champa the succ?

Did they really give 17 a fucking aura? They dont even care anymore.

>>156027391
Because Yamamuro can't draw like he used to, but is still appointed animation supervisor because he's worked on DB for along time.

>>156027605
>Implying Champa can even find his own dick
He thought he found it a few years ago, but it was actually just a cheeto hidden between his fatrolls.

Did goku ever legit beat Hit?

>>156027504
This is probably the plan for manga.

>>156023099
underrated doubles

SSBKK was a mistake , if you do math SSBKKx10 should be leags above beerus himself but toei can't even do math

I'm glad I dont watch the series, each new shitstorm I see on /a/ about the latest asspull is always new to me. So they introduced I'VE BEEN TRAINING LMAO 17 this week?

>>156027689
Well he tied with him in thier second fight , without using KK so with KK he would kicked his ass , but then again it power level mean shit

>>156027684
You don't think he's ever asked something sexual of her?

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>>156027689
How could one even compete?

>>156027836
>but then again it power level mean shit
It's sad that we actually have to put this in the end of every statetment about DBS for now on made.

>>156027826
Yes. And next week is Muten "I have amazing god slaying techniques I never bothered to use before" Roshi, followed by Ten "Kiko Hou" Shin Han. This is going to be hilarious

>>156027859
The only two (three if you count that one Pride Trooper) members of their race we've ever seen are, or at least appear to be, male. For all we know they could be a race that reproduces asexually.
>Inb4 muh pants, muh genitals
lack of genitals never stopped the Nameks or first form frieza from covering their crotches.

>>156028101

I look forward to it.

>>156028105
That would be such a waste of perfect angel ass

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When did everything go wrong, you ask? There you go.

>>156028105
that's boring

>>156027297
>>156027504
the problem with SSBK is that they stated Goku couldn't control it and pretty much destroyed his body, but now he uses it so casually it doesn't fucking matter

>>156028198
Still don't get why people were so pissed off at this.
Trunks going Super Angry Man Blue (except not blue) was bullshit but a villain being killed by what is essentially a spirit bomb isn't really anything new for Dragon Ball.

>>156028337
except he used technique that he didnt know, he used it in a way it wasnt never used, and that genki dama was created literally by 5 people

Akira Toriyama stated that SSG(Red) Goku is a 6, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15. If Goku became SSG(Blue) Kaioken x5, Goku would be > 50, Beerus would still be 10, and Whis would be 15.

This means that SSG(Blue) Kaioken Goku is 5x more powerful than Beerus and ~3x more powerful than Whis.

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>>156028198
At this moment.

>>156028198
Went wrong the moment anything came after BoG. It's like BoG opened up a world of possibilities by coming slightly after the buu arc instead of EoZ, and they fucked it up. they fucked literally everything up.

I feel like nobody would have any complaints if it had gone like this:

>Goku fights Fit Buu in SSJ3, same result
>Goku fights Krillin in base form, same result but the kamehameha struggle ends quicker and clearly has Krillin on the losing side
>Goku fights 17 in SSJ, is forced up to SSJ3 at which point 17 calls the fight off stating "I'm betting you're holding back even more power, let's stop now before we wreck my island"

After each of those fights, Goku casually goes blue just so they can check it out and tells them "guys at this level will be in the tournament so make sure you're ready"

>>156028503
The 6/10/15 thing got retconned. We currently have absolutely no idea how strong Beerus and Whis really are except that SSB is like a small tree next to a mountain (Beerus)

>>156028527
THIS desu , power level become shit after this bullshit was made , it look cool but it make no sense when you think about

>>156028198
>Stabbing a man in the dick
That is NOT how gentlemen fight, Trunks!

Is Vados a slut?

>>156028527
>>156028627
If he could only manage a regular Kaioken, and not x10 or 20, it would be a lot easier to swallow

Basically it would just double the power of SSB. But they just had to go with multipliers.

Could have just had Goku say "using KK and blue together is pretty risky so I can only manage a normal one"

>>156028566
There was nothing wrong with Goku vs Fit Buu though. Base form Goku is weaker than Buu in general so he lost, I fail to see the problem. If he had lost in SSJ3 even though SSJ3 wrecks Fat Buu, it would have been bullshit.

>>156028639
split him right up the taint
aimed for it

>>156028337
>first spirit bomb against Vegeta was made by the power of earth's energy
>second spirit bomb against Freeza was made by the power of Namek's and surrounding planets' energy
>third spirit bomb against Buu vas made by the power of earth's energy again
>fourth and most powerful spirit bomb was made by the power of few people in a destroyed city, by someone who doesn't even knew de the technique
That was the wors asspull made in the entire series, even considering non canon movies.

>>156028726
I'm OK with Buu being able to compete with SSJ3, his powerlevel is pretty nebulous

>>156028527
This. Irreparably destroyed the power scaling for the rest of the series.

>>156028503
Super really likes Retcons. ssg being enough to give beerus a challenge is no longer canon and now SSBKK is still not even comparable. what's more at this point literally any character in the show that can fly is capable of pulling off what SSG goku did in BoG because super is shit.

>>156028692
Remind you that KK multi his power 10x "according to DBZ anyway " vegeta in moment of rage force beerus to use 10% of his power , SSG was drastically stronger and SSB is even story than that meaning he should literally destroy beerus in this SSBKK form but he can't because toei don't know how to do math

even 17 can now fight Beerus holy shit what a time to live in

>>156028503
Maybe not take Toriyama's words as law if it's not in the actual material. The whole power scaling nonsense was never in the manga or anime and it's clear they're not following those guidelines.

>>156028848
A regular Kaioken just doubles his power. It's not always x10

>>156028688
No you are

>>156028617
You realize even by anime logic goku should be stronger than beerus ?

>>156028503
>This means that SSG(Blue) Kaioken Goku is 5x more powerful than Beerus
SSBK is probably stronger than Beerus since he was nervous when he first saw it.

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DAILY REMINDER UUB IS BACK

>>156028762
It look cool so who care ? it's not like Trunks can jump SSB because he was angry , or he can learn that sealing move by watching it of freaking mobile right ?

>>156028688
how could one possibly arrive to the conclusion she is?

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>think about random stuff
>write it down
>people still argue what is canon

>>156029027
He was never gone. The end of DBZ is canon, negro.

>>156029027
UUB IS BACK BABY

>>156029033
>who care ?
people who liked dbz aka real fans

>>156029038
Her voice & attitude

>>156028894
I was juts lazy to write 10x and you get the point since he can go 10x anyway

>>156029096
and does it seems to you toei give a shit ?

>>156028566
>things making sense as Goku slowly scales from SSJ1 to SSJ3
That would be so good. How can they think that'd be a bad idea?

>>156029027
Daily reminder that Vegeta says Goku wants to train Uub because he lacks a worthy opponent to train with.

This must mean Goku surpassed Whis when End of DBZ Happens.

Not only that, this also means that both Goku and Vegeta believe that
Trained UUB > Whis

>>156029027
He'll be the fastest warrior in the Universe.

What does MIR mean lads?

>>156029147
kinda yes, they give us shit in the form of super

>>156029208
Maybe they will just re-write the ending ? they been doing that a lot in DBS

>>156029208
Or they will just redo the ending to Z to be more consistent with recent material.

>>156028970
Yeah I know. I used to try and keep track of powerlevels but there's just no point anymore. Goku should be a challenge for Beerus by now, but he isn't according to the show so there's nothing I can do about it.

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>hurt by bullets
>jobbed to non-sayajins
How can they hope to win the tournament?

>>156020858
Why 17 didn't help in the battle against Majin Buu?

>>156029322
Realistically, U7 shouldn't win the tournament.

>>156029384
Gotta protect the animals.

>>156029275
>>156029291
they will probably never reach the original ending

>>156020858
>Waaah why everyone but Goku and Vegeta got weaker!!
>Waaaah why suddenly everyone is strong!
DB american and spic fanbase in a nutshell
>>156021069
>That time when Goku reached Ginyu tiers because muh training and super saiyan
>That time Gohan suddenly became stronger because Old Supreme Kaio danced around his ass for hours

>>156029384
He's not even willing to leave his island for 2 hours to fight against the erasure of the universe.

He really, really likes that island.
Which is baffling because he said he works away from home, so he must sometimes go home to his family and leave the island undefended.
huh

>>156028503
>Not using logarithmic power levels
We have no reason to believe Whis' 6/10/15 scaling means Beerus is less than twice as powerful as Goku. I think it's far more likely he was referring exponents. For example, a system where a 7 is 10x as strong as a 6, a 9 is 1000x as strong as a 6, etc. It doesn't necessarily have to be base 10, but based on everything we've seen up until this point this sort of scaling makes the most sense.

They could have just had Dende learn how to do the potential-unlocking thing Guru could do

Gather the fighters, unlock potential, problem solved.

>>156029427
>>156029441
But didn't Buu killed everything in the planet? I mean, 17 should have realized this, or are you going to tell me he was sleeping just at that moment?

>>156029492
Oh, so like the scale for earthquakes? That makes sense. A 7.0 on the richter scale is massively weaker than an 8.0, etc

I can dig it

Who's ever banged Vados?

>>156029384
17 is too cool to fight the ugly fat buu

btw didn't buu kill all the living begins on the earth back in Z ? 17 must been chilling after taking suck weak attack

>>156024358
>citing that fake list
Power levels during android and majin bu saga doesn't exist because Toriyama dropped them yet Shueisha and Toei followed that shit trough external material

>>156029534
Buu only killed humans, and he did a sloppy job at that because he was in a hurry and wasn't paying much attention so even Tenshinhan managed to dodge

17 gave his energy to the SB at the end of Z but it wasn't enough to defeat BUU

>>156028503
Those numbers are just what Toriyama thinks and not a direct comparison. Whis knocked out Beerus extremely easily. He might as well have said SSG Goku was a medium, Beerus was a large & Whis was a Supersized.

>>156029604
That only implied that Tenshinhan was strong enough to survive 1 Buu attack, hell Tenshinhan was already as strong as the androids in the Cell Saga, he was even stronger in the Buu Saga taking in count he's one of the few character that are still training on a daily basis. Also, What about 17 family? Did he just saw them die and then be like "not my problem".

>>156029682
Even tho he had an infinite energy supply, kek
Gohan's energy alone should have been enough

>>156029534
time between fat buu turning super and kid buu destroying earth was like max 2 hours, its not like 17 protects that island all the time without breaks

So saitama > goku confirmed ?

>>156029755
Buu wasn't paying attention because when he saw Tenshinhan he said he thought he killed all humans so he was literally doing it casually just to shut piccolo up

>>156029810
Has always been.

How will you react when roshi fight on par with ssb goku?

>>156020858
The amount of people defending this makes me feel like I'm on a much gayer site

>>156020912
Everyones come close to the power of a god without any of gokus transformation haxing and training, yeah its bullshit

>>156029384
You know him. He coudn't bother to avoid the destruction of the entire universe since he was busy protecting some animals.
>yfw Buu destroyed Earth while 17 was in it
>avoiding the Earth's destruction wasn't in his job's description so that was ok
>it's so good to come back to your vaporized home and deceased family at the end of the day knowing you did a good job today

>>156029755
>Tenshinhan was already as strong as the androids in the Cell Saga
No, he really wasn't

>>156029925
He just ate a whole pile of magic weed-spinach so whatever

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>Zenkai boosts are there because Saiyans are a different species
>Frieza is not just from a powerful race, but a mutant with such incredible power that without training he is the most powerful being in his universe

>These are acceptable

>Goku and Vegeta train consistently 10 years, 3 years in the Room of Spirit and Time, training with both a Deity and practising with God Ki, fighting to save their Universe against assassins, other Universes and Zamasu


>Android 17 is just as strong because he fucked around on an island by himself for 10 years

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>>156029808
You mean Super Buu destroying the earth. But if what you are saying about the elapsed time is truth then that could make sense, by the time 17 realized they must have been on Kamisama planet already, someone should do a DBZ edit of this image with 17 as Katsura.

>>156029755
>hell Tenshinhan was already as strong as the androids in the Cell Saga, he was even stronger in the Buu Saga taking in count he's one of the few character that are still training on a daily basis
Is DUDE TRAINING LMAO retroactively retconning things now?

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>>156022147
>mfw #17 transforms in the Legendary Super Android God at the universal survival tournament.

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>>156030065
super buu never destroyed the earth, have you even watched it?

>>156030033
He's not as strong as SSB... Maybe close that's all.

>Android 17 inexplicably far stronger
Is this GT?

>>156030033
According to Toei, 17 could hold his own with Beerus from BoG.
That is fucking stupid.

If they ever fuse Uub with Fat Buu, he better be fucking pink

>>156029954
>Freezer and SSY1 almost the same power
>17 and 18 are stronger than SSY1
>Base Cell stronger than 17 and 18
>16 stronger than Base Cell
>Near Perfect Cell stronger than everyone
>Tenshihan came and single handled Near Perfect Cell for a while
Tenshinhan power is maximun.

>>156030168
This

He's above SSJ3 but below Blue, that's all we know.

>>156030138
Wasn't the /fit/ Buu the one that killed all the humans? Or what are you specifically speaking aobut? I was specifically speaking about that.

>>156030269
Krillin is above SSJ3 but below Blue too.

Why didn't Goku just tell #17 that they could use the Dragonballs if any animals get hurt/killed during the tournament? Why is #17 such a faggot that he'd let the whole universe be erased just so some animals can get a few extra hours of existence?

>>156030240
Temporarily pushing back Cell with a technique that almost killed him doesn't mean he's stronger than the Androids

When the fought the androids they defeated him effortlessly, and he didn't have a chance to get and stronger for the rest of the Cell saga

The anime also exaggerated how long he held down Cell, it was only for a few seconds

>>156030304
I try not to think about it

>>156030284
maybe you are illiterate or something but i said destroying the earth, how did you read that as killing humans?

>>156030269
we dont know if he´s below blue he beat a kamehameha without a beamstruggle wich for now only happened if the receiver is stronger

>>156026604
Saitama can defeat goku & beerus now

>>156030369
Read back from the beginning and there is something called context, but alright, my bad.

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>poachers from outer space

>I care about protecting the animals
The whole universe is going to be destroyed, including the animals
>I don't care lol

Amazing writing by toei so they can have them fight toei filler space poachers next episode, and have him join after that

>>156030322
>I try not to think about it
Of course you don't, but the fact is there according to the show.

Krillin is about SSJ3, but below blue. This is a fact.
Krillin could potentially beat fat buu. He could beat Cell.


Whats wrong? Why is #17's power increase so acceptable but Krillin's is not? The evidence is there, he held his own against SSJB Goku by training in his home gym for a few weeks.

Am i the only one glad to see 17 this strong?

We don't know how he trained but he trained.

>>156030479
Because it's Krillin, man.

>>156030500
Krillin is just as strong. He held his own agains SSJB Goku who wasn't holding back.

>>156030500
If killing poachers is the GOAT training regime, why isn't Piccolo doing it?

>>156030530
You're retarded.

It was stated numerous time that God ki allow better control.

>>156030553
We don't know how he trained but he trained.

>>156020858
He is literally holding back by not using SSB+KK.

>>156030322
>When the fought the androids they defeated him effortlessly, and he didn't have a chance to get and stronger for the rest of the Cell saga
Said who, also they obviously caught him offguard, a well done kikoho at max power could have fucked up any of the androids, and i'm more than sure that that was his plan by going to the battlefield at that time, but he got late.
Now what I wonder is why doesn't Tenshinhan teach the Kikoho to Goku?

>>156030509
>Huur its krillin he cant be dat strong

Sorry kiddo, but the fact is he is stronger than everyone in U6 minus Hit.
He could reliably beat Ultimate Gohan and SSJ Vegito.

What I don't understand is why everybody reacts to SSB with "wow what intense power"

I thought normal scrubs couldn't sense God Ki

>>156030574
You are wrong. We know how Krillin trained and he trained. Krillin is just as strong as #17 who is between SSJ3 and Blue.

>>156030603
I'm just butthurt because Krillin being that strong takes a hacksaw to the core of how I thought powerlevels even work

It's probably time for me to stop caring and just accept it. Sure, Krillin can be that strong I guess, because he is. I concede.

File: Androids17sBeforeUniting.png (294KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

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Anyone suspect pic related will happen?

>>156030613
They talk about the "pressure", not about the power.

SSG has an intimidating aura.

>>156030613
they can sense the pressure

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Krillin could single handedly stop Dabura, Babidi and Majin Buu at his current level.
Anybody who says otherwise is retarded.

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>>156030479
goku was holding back

>>156030674
Prove that he's stronger than gohan.

Prove that Gohan wasn't holding back.

Prove me that Goku used SSB without lowered it to Krillin's level.

Youc an't

>>156030613
He's obviously holding back so much, the scrubs can feel it.

>>156030730
You're right I can't, but you also can't prove anything either. This entire "was he holding back or not" argument is stupid because they haven't told us, we don't know.

IMPORTANT QUESTION
Just like 18 have still a womb and a reproductive system, does that means that 17 still have his balls and bat?

Goku has only sparred with Krillin and Android 17, but there is already a pattern in Goku's strategy for recruiting the Universe 7 team. Overall, it involves Goku starting off with a "weak" form whether it is his base form or his ssj form. After they trade blows he then proceeds to going SSB and proforming a Kamehameha. The Kamehameha is used as a measure for Goku, he uses it to see how much power the other fighters are capable of outputting before they are overwhelmed by Goku's blast.
For example, when he had that beam struggle with Krillin it was probably due to him underestimating Krillin's strength. Goku's Kamehameha was pushed back by Krillin so Goku upped the power. Once Goku noticed that Krillin was at his max he stopped the fight and he took to account the strength it took for the blast to overwhelm Krillin. He did the same with 17, but 17 ended up using his barrier to counter Goku's Kamehameha. Since there was no beam struggle Goku had no way of knowing 17's limit. That is why Goku proceeded with the sparring match and ask 17 to fight at his max power. That would also explain why Goku has been using SSB a lot, he needs the perfect ki control to adjust the energy of his Kamehameha.

Who would win in a battle between Elder God Demobane and 17(holding back)?

>>156030730
He beat Gohan. Did we watch the same show?
Prove to me to me he was holding back. He seemed pretty focused and even almost lost to Krillin before going "Holy shit, I need to go Blue"

Why is this so hard to accept after some spics were so accepting of #17?

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>>156030806
he literally said in the last ep he have a baby, why are you people so retarded?

>>156030781
You're retarded, really.

Did you watch cell's arc?

When goku was able to live with SSJ?

Imagine the same shit with SSB but with much better control.

>>156030806
seems likely

>Krillin who was tired after beating Gohan's ass was on par with SSJB Goku

Fucking hell, Android #17 ain't got shit on Krillin.

Krillin could beat Super Buu. You don't know how hard he trained.

Somebody post the SSB Goku vs 17 paint images.

>>156030825
I really like this theory and I hope it was canon; unfortunately I don't think Toei will deliver anything like this. Their writing is at face value. Goku screams to power up kamehameha, therefore he's putting effort into it

>>156030885
I understand what you're saying, you think Goku lowered SSB to Krillin's level because he has that kind of control.

I agree, but the show didn't outright state that, so we don't know.

He probably was holding back but we don't know, so it's pointless to argue about it. Get it?

>>156030909
Just a reminder that Krillin kienzan could have 1 shot Freezer back in Namek if it wasn't for Toriyama and his plot armors. Why everyone doesn't just learn kienzans?

>>156023133
Quality of civilisation, intellect, average life span, power, being a ningen isn't only being powerful or not

>>156028566
I highly agree with this.

Too bad the anime isn't driven on story consistency, just what looks the most flashy for the next 30 seconds of looped animation. SSJ3 Goku vs Fit Buu would've been a great fucking fight to watch.

>>156031010
They don't even need to state it.

It's that obvious.

"Lul how goku can use SSJ again? I need my explanation again"

>>156022790
So were Buu and Dabura, but Beerus and Whis didn't give a shit about either of them

>>156030825
I like this theory
But i dont think toei is that clever

>>156031101
>They don't even need to state it.
For it to be confirmed 100%, yes they do. Otherwise we're just speculating.

Are we speculating correctly? probably. But you can't state it's 100% true just because "it's obvious". Man you are dense. I'm even agreeing with you and you're being a dense motherfucker.

I would put Krillin as much more powerful than Ultimate Gohan.

He destroyed Gohan and held his own, tired, against a full power SSJB Goku. Granted, it wasn't Kaioken, but still.

He may even be as strong as SSG Goku. These are facts, its shown within the show.

>>156031140
Dabura is not a mortal.
Buu was well known by all deities.

Don't speedread next time

>>156030854
>Why is this so hard to accept after some spics were so accepting of #17?

Because Krillin is weak as fuck and was literally shit compared to Base Goku during the Buu saga, whereas 17 at one point was in a realm strong enough to wipe out Goku and Vegeta at the same time without trying.

Krillin has no right to be SSJB tier, nor does he have a right to even be comparable to Kid Buu. 17 was modified to be stronger than Frieza and has seemingly trained every day for 10 years straight.

>>156031209
>destroyed Gohan
he just used a better solar flare and won, how is that destroyed, Krillin fags need to calm down before they see their character get 1 shotted at the tournament

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>mfw gohan will go blue after training with picolo
you all just wait

>>156031171
>Lul how goku can breath
>This is never stated, so we don't know how

I like that Uub is now C A N O N

>>156031140
Neither of them are mortal, in fact, Buu is probably older than every GoD alive, and Zeno's Guards.

I'm also positive at this point that Beerus does not remember or even know who Buu is, Whis most likely, but we haven't gotten confirmation yet.