What the fuck was the point of this?

>>155880817
To make it clear that Chrollo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meme Clown.

OH
MY
RUBBER
NEN

REPEAT AFTER ME:

PROPERTIES

>>155880817
Be unexpected because hunter x hunter is a deconstruction of the shonen genre.

>>155881107
OF

>>155880974
Why are people so fucking mad about this ?

sometimes call it the "worst asspull ever"

Can i have a quick rundown ?

>>155881146
RUBBER

Showing Chrollo's new skills.

Maybe I'm too low IQ for HxH or maybe it was the translations but I didn't know what the FUCK was going on in that fight

well everyone wanted this to happen so he made it happen just so he could go into eternal hiatus without people getting ornery

>>155881295
there were a lot of thoughts and making plans going on in this fight, like hisoka trying to figure out how chrollo was going to combine his explosion hands with his appearance change stuff. did he change into someone else? did he give those clones the marks? how many clones did he make? so the fight was pretty much hisoka coming to a conclusion about chrollos power and chrollo being like fuck you i did something totally different.

>>155881295
The entire fight was literally edgy manlet being a faggot and using nen loopholes to rape the meme clown.

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>>155880817

>>155881162
AND

>>155881738
CUM

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>>155881667
Posting that image should be a bannable offense.

>>155880817
Aren't they both wanted criminals? How come they're allowed to participate in public tournaments and why didn't the police do anything?

>>155882036
Because it's fucking HxH, a world where it's OK to kill people during a hunter exam even if they're kids, and in a tournament where it's OK to kill the opponent. The cops in this world are either nonexistant or useless as fuck

>>155882036
The HxH world is ancap.

>>155882266
>The HxH world is ancap.
Then why is the King of the world's biggest country organizing a deathmatch between all of his children to determine his successor?

>>155881152
How are rubber and gum supposed to defibrillate your fucking heart?

>>155882309
Kingdoms are glorified corporations.

>>155880817
If civilians in the HxH aren't supposed to know what Nen is (for some reason), what the fuck do they think is happening in these Tower of Heaven fights? Do they think it's all rigged or special effects? Did the organizers get sued into oblivion after Hisoka and Chrollo's massacre of the audience?

>>155882493
They just think that they are 2fast4them
as for the massacre idk,maybe there is a contract form they need to sing if they want to be in the audience

>serial killer pedophile villain vs EDGY terrorist leader villain fight in a deathmatch
>fight devolves into a mass murder incident
>both of them ended fine and dandy
take this >>155881132 into consideration and try to think harder.

>>155881132
>deconstruction of the shonen genre
>deconstruction
here we go again

>>155882869
So exactly like Frieza vs Beerus?

>>155882493
>for some reason
It doesn't even make any sense, how could something known by so many people from so many different factions possibly be kept a secret?

when will that fat piece of shit release a new chapter?
any news yet?

>>155883242
He died last week. Where were you, it even got a sticky.

>>155883429
nice post

>>155883242
5 minutes.

>>155881667
how did people react to this when it happened? i recently caught up

>>155883644
You fucking cunt, dont lie to us

>>155882335
It was setup ages before the fight and fleshed out in it, nen can function after death if the motivation is great enough

clown man just applied that in the minmaxiest way possible

>>155880817
To speed up the story and have Hisoka go after the spiders/join DC people while also making him more of a threat to everybody, and possible end-boss for Gon or something.
Really with all the breaks he takes Togashi must realize that he can't drag this on as long as he wants to. I'd guess if DC wasn't the end we'll have one arc after it, since DC will undoubtably be fuckhuge if we ever actually get there.

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>implying it wasn't entertaining as fuck

>>155883727
A mix of confusion, mockery, laughter and ejaculation.

>>155883727

Pretty much just endless shitposting, like what we're having right now. You know you can just check the archive right?

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>>155880817
To reveal that the fanbase really is as cancerous as any other shounenshit fanbase.

THE PROPERTIES OF BOTH RUBBER AND GUM

>>155881667
I haven't been this angry at HXH since the bullshit that is Killua's tranny brother. People like to suck Togashi's dick because he's not as ass pully as Kubo or Kishi or whatever tard wrote Medaka Box when he's just as shitty as they are. As it stands only Oda has yet to pull off something as retarded as those guys

>>155881818
Thanks man this was perfect, you're perfect.

>>155883727
Those two months were shitposting hell.

>>155882036
Its legal to kill people if you have a hunter's license, Hisoka can get away with his murders but not Chrollo, also the people at the tournament probably don't even know he's the leader of the Phantom Troupe.

>>155884153

Almost got me there.

>>155883727
https://desuarchive.org/a/search/text/bow%20down%20to%20clown/

>>155881295
Pretty sure it's the translation. Japs were mad too, but they're mad about toilet murders, not this.

>>155880817
Ratings
After such a hiatus you need something to pull the fans back in.

>>155884538
Except sales are huge every time HxH comes back, the fight is no exception.

I can't fucking wait for the bloodshed. Either Hisoka bodies the Troupe or the Troupe bodies Hisoka. Doesn't matter either way, they all deserve to die.

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>>155882036
>why didn't the police do anything?
>implying cops can fuck with hunters
>implying this isn't a hunters world
they can pretty much do what ever they want

>>155880817
Togashi knows he won't finish HxH so he wanted to get Hisoka and Chrollo's fight finished before he quits.

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>>155884120
>To reveal that the fanbase really is as cancerous as any other shounenshit fanbase.
I have to accept this fact for the rest of my life.
at this point its worst than the hiatuses.

>>155885467
Togashi is 50, he has at least 10 years to finish it.

>>155880817
YOU LITERALLY MADE THIS THREAD YESTERDAY

>>155880817
basically to say that the series is still alive

>>155884477
They were mad Shalnark and Kortopi died? I mean I get Shalnark, but Kortopi?

>>155882335
Same way electricity does

>>155885557
>he has at least 10 years to finish it.
this means nothing
>>155885705
*YOU LITERALLY MAKE THIS THREAD EVERYDAY
fixed it for ya

>>155885714
Probably because such a important character that haven't fought anyone shouldn't have died such a shitty death

>>155885368
I mean Hisoka walked inside the HA building and Kanzai called a mass murderer out loud. And they nothing happened, they didn't care.

HxH's world is bleak.

>>155885896
At least there was a manhunt for him after he murdered some HA members during the election, but after a bit I guess they just gave up.

>>155885762
>such a shitty death
Tell me about it.

>>155880817
So Togashi can fuck off while still claiming he delivered the most hyped fight to his fans

>>155883210
No one ever said people were trying very hard to keep it a secret. I think people just don't go generally yapping about it

>>155886058
>No one ever said people were trying very hard to keep it a secret
Didn't Killua's fellow bodyguards say that there is some kind of rule about not telling civilians about Nen?

Still, without a doubt the most retarded thing of all this is that Killua somehow didn't know about Nen's existance even though his entire family and the staff of his mansion knows it. It makes even less sense when you consider that he knew Illumi, Alluka and his Grandpa's powers.

>>155881667
It's fine when Togashi does it

>>155885896
I mean it could be because of who Hisoka s I mean hes the wild card there aren't many people who can stop him or other strong users like Chrollo.
I don't think that Togashi is gonna over look the fact that Chrollo and Hisoka murdered pretty much everyone during that fight without a single thought.

>>155886058
And what good would come if they knew? The general populace won't know what the hell is going on, they're just there to be entertained. It's like going to see a magic show, with the added spice of death.

When is the volume for the Hisoka vs Chrollo chapters coming out?

>>155884153

I dunno man, Pell surviving that nuke to the face pissed me off quite a bit.

>>155886151
No idea about that, but I mean it clearly happens considering pleantly of people know about nen. How do you define Civilians? We've seen pleanty of non-hunters who knew nen.

I still think it makes sense Killua didn't know about nen. I think his father wanted him not to rely on it.
Although it's weird that he knew about family's abilities

>>155886151
No, he knew about the powers. He knew Illumi had something off about him, he just couldn't put a name to it.

>>155881152
>>155883824
No no, the thing is, even if the Nen shit could work, how the fuck isn't Hisoka braindead because his brain lacked oxygen for who know how much time?
I thought Togashi thought out well his things and valued his realism (in the boundaries set in HxH) but this was just bullshit.
Also the presentation of the application of the power sucked hard, it would've been better if he came up with something else.

>>155886969
>valued his realism

REGULAR people have performed superhuman feats since the beginning of the manga.

>>155886969
Well, if you paid attention you'd know Hisoka wasn't dead for an hour. Hell, it wasn't even 30 minutes.

In addition to that, brain death from asphyxiation is around six minutes. Lasting a bit longer than that isn't impossible for a superhuman. Especially if Gon can hold his breath for 9 minutes straight and Morel can can his for over 2 hours. It's entirely feasible.

>>155880817

I seriously think an editor had something to do with the end of that fight.

I fucking hate Hisoka.

>>155887149
>>155887198
If you put it that way - as a superhuman feat - yeah, it could make sense. Though, superhuman feats come always back to Nen, even for regular people, so it isn't something "magical", but it all goes back to the system he created, so it still abides to the rules of HxH world, and is realistic.

I still don't like it because while other superhuman feats appearing in the manga could be somehow corroborated by the character's willpower, which also have an influence on the strenght of their Nen, or at least have some sort of background - strenght because they fight strong enemies, Morel breath because of his Nen and pipe, Gon's because of his upbringing - this time it was unconscious and over something like the brain and blood flowing there.

I don't know, it sounds way more stretched to me than being able to consciously hold your breath or doing consciously other superhuman feats. I mean, I'm no expert but they said he was dead, so blood wasn't flowing there, while if you hold your breath it sill does, right?

>>155882036
The better question is why were people watching in the stadium? These guys are vicious murderers and it only took ten seconds until Chrollo started using the crowd as human shields.

>>155887552
Same reason people watched the dark tournament

you can call Alluka an asspull but at least it had to happen was cuz Gon lost his powers so he could beat Pitou and he wanted to continue the story so he had to think of something out

Hisoka on the other hand was just retarded, why even kill him in the 1st place? there was no need to, nothing would've changed and there would 1 less complaint from the fans about the series

>>155887302
Rubber...and a gum!

>>155887701
*it had to happen cuz Gon lost his powers to beat Pitou and he wanted to continue the story so he had to think of something out

*there would be

wew

>>155885896
you have to recall this is a world where the threat of nuclear warfare is real. as far as the populace is concerned, hunters are unquestionable heros, i would imagine. someone like hisoka with a hunters license is dangerous

>>155883644
Don't break my heart pls.

I think the only reason this fight happened when it did was so Togashi could get into the mood to write again. He was bored with HxH and building the DC plotline so he just threw one of the most anticipated fights in the series in with almost zero buildup to get motivated. Did not work for long obviously.

>>155884153
I don't like him bc if that. His world is simply fantastic, even with all the asspulls it still is pretty damn enjoyable.

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>>155887507
Physically, Gon should be far and away above the average human. The Hunter Exams showed that Olympic level people at least have a chance of surviving. And this is before using nen. I mean Killua could push a 16 ton door and has sharp retractable nails.

Hisoka's feat isn't stretching what established in the show. It fit not only in terms of physical endurance but also with the rules of nen elaborated at length.

Plus, given Hisoka's character, this fit him like a glove.

Still better than the phantom brigade arc

>>155887285
I would think the same if the fight was longer and more "epic", because it seems weird for Togashi to give someone like Hisoka such a rushed death. I mean the old man went with a (literal) bang; and if Hisoka has to die, I think it will be even worse.

>>155887939

More like he needed something to keep the reader's interested because the last 20 chapters were full of fucking nothing

>>155880817
It was a training arc for Hisoka before he goes to DC

>>155884153
>Killua's tranny brother
--- End of line, rine ends here ---
over the line

A plot device that can fulfill every possible wish without drawbacks?
It's like the author didn't want to leave Gon suffering with the manga going into Hiatus.

Utter garbage.

>>155888095
>Hisoka's feat isn't stretching what established in the show. It fit not only in terms of physical endurance but also with the rules of nen elaborated at length.
>Plus, given Hisoka's character, this fit him like a glove.
This

I don't even see the necessity to explain it, it's so fucking obvious. Either /a/ is mad to just to be mad, or it's simple shitposting.

>>155888161
I mean you don't pull one of the most anticipated fights in the series and kill off Hisoka just like that. It'll feel too random. It serves as a preamble of what to expect on the boat ride.

>>155888181
If you're a complete moron, sure. Reading sure is hard, ain't it.

>>155888095
yea the genetic pool of the hxh world is established to be quite far from ours. from day 1 we saw gon pull something like a multi-ton fish from the river, and doing the hunter exam jumping from tree to tree

>>155880817
Everyone stopped giving a shit about HxH after the awful Chmera Ant arc and the retarded as Dragon Ball Super Elections arc, so Togashi needed something to catch the readers attention back.

>>155880817

>hurr dur humans have different taboos and morality
>look this moralfag doesn't concider corpses to be simply an object
>but the copies of a person still can't act against the beliefs of that person, so are they human on some level?
>hisoka brutally butchers all these puppets, but they aren't actual people so it's ok
>i'm writing some deep shit here man, the wait worths it trust me

>long awaited hisokaxchrollo match
>further explains nen mechanics
>gives hisoka a powerup
>sets into motion a new plan for hisoka

It served a number of different narrative purposes

>>155880817
Hisoka wanted to fight Chrollo for a very long time now. I think hisoka overrated chrollo too highly. There are plenty of other strong opponents that he can fight not sure why he is so intrested with chrollo.

>>155880817
Are you seriously asking this? You might as well ask what is the point of fighting in a action series?

>>155882036
Heaven arena seems to turn a blind eye to it.

>>155889235
Chrollo is zodiac-tier and his nen ability is fucking broken.

>>155880817
Hisoka was bored because aside of Netero and maybe Gin no one else would give him a fun fight. Then he stroke a deal with Chrollo, he would wait for chrollo to collect everything he needed to fight against Hisoka and Hisoka would in turn fight for the trope.
Hisoka got a little butthurt because he thought he could still take on chrollo no matter how much advantage the second got but got btfo. Now he is out for blood and disn't giving Chrollo any more chances

>>155889116
>power up

you mean the ass pull that makes him invincible?

>>155880817
Potentially to build up up an actual fight between the two since the story wouldn't have it as is

They were inevitably going to clash because of Hisoka's obsession but Chrollo's character and the other Spider's loyalty ensured that Hisoka wouldn't get a straight fight out of him; it would just be Chrollo enacting a strategy to kill him and be rid of him.

Now, Hisoka is aware of the futility of fighting Chrollo on his terms and with how Chrollo views it. Hunting the Spiders both takes away Chrollo's advantages and serves as a way to potentially entice him to want to fight Hisoka rather than simply be rid of him.

>>155889519
No, I don't.

>>155888194
You know what would of been better? For that tranny not to exist and instead Leorio who has been studying to medicine and creating his nen for surgeries to find a way to use his powers to heal Gon.

>>155889519
Invincible? I doubt he can pull the same trick if he dies again.

>involving the crowd like a coward

chrollocucks are the worst

>>155889235
He overrated himself and came into this fight with nothing more than his hard-on.

Get over it.

>>155889620
So Leorio can do something an exorcist can't with medicine and surgery?

Boy, that's so stupid.

>>155889415
>Hisoka was bored because aside of Netero and maybe Gin no one else would give him a fun fight.
And Zodiacs ? Meruem would've been an excellent, and very risky opponent too.

>>155889526
>Hunting the Spiders both takes away Chrollo's advantages and serves as a way to potentially entice him to want to fight Hisoka rather than simply be rid of him.
this makes a lot of sense

>>155889672
>hisoka does it again in the second fight thinking he is invincible
>Lucifer chops his head off this time and burns the body.

>>155890329
Meruem would've btfo him

he would die busting a nut so I guess it wouldn't be all bad

>>155880817
He knew his previous arc was total shit.
So he attempted to get some of the fanbase back by throwing in a long awaited fight that everyone wanted to see.

Ultimately, he failed anyway.

>>155890377
>>155890329

>Hisoka: I am so excited to face you King-sama

>Mereum: Hurry up and show me what you can do I have things to attend to before I eat you.

>Hisoka throws his aura

>Mereum: I said hurry

>Hisoka tries to retract it but nothing happens

>Mereum: Is this shitty aura trick all you can do...?

>Hisoka: SAVE ME ILLUMI

>>155890440
>implying he gives any fucks at all if people follow hxh

This is a man whose contract with Jump is so sweet he can take off most of every year and produce only when he wants to for a massive paycheck.

>>155889704
>>involving the crowd like a coward
The whole purpose of an entertainer is to involve the crowd :^)

One member got a face full of action.

>>155890481
Isn't Illumi weaker than Hisoka ?

>>155890485
>Murata will draw both HxH and OPM at the same time because both authors are lazy fucks

>>155890534
They are about the same level.

>>155890440
Years later and you losers are still crying the fight didn't go your way.

You can take your crystal ball whiny garbage and get out of here.

Screw the haters. I enjoyed both chimera ants and election arcs.

>>155890558
That sounds awful, keep him with OPM

>>155885896
Read up on the privileges a hunter license gives you:
http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter_License
> Almost no legal responsibility for murder.

>>155889526
>>155890367
It also adds intrigue and possible tension if the Spiders are seen in the future without Hisoka around.

>>155890658
>sounds awful

except it doesn't? Murata should just fucking redraw the entire HxH manga

>>155880817
The hack has literally no idea where to take the manga

>>155890784
>Murata HxH redraw
>Chrollo vs Hisoka lasts 46 chapters

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>>155890658
yeah imagine if we couldn't get high quality images or regular chapter releases like this one

>>155890826
would probably still manage to catch up with the original manga in a couple of years

>>155880817
This fight had been very long-awaited. It would've been easy to presume that it would actually be the end of one of the characters, but it was actually just another turning point: the fight had to happen to give Chrollo the opportunity to get involved in the current storyline which is being MC'd by Kurapika himself, and it also gave Hisoka a reason to be involved as well, as he's now hunting down all the Spiders.

You know, it would've been very difficult for this fight to live up to expectations. I think most fans assumed it'd just be done off-panel. But I honestly really loved the fight. It felt like a breath of, not fresh air, but rather old air. The Dark Continent/Prince Accession stuff has been a very long journey through heavy exposition and giant walls of text, which is sometimes inane or redundant, and it has still even barely started. Seeing two familiar faces fight in a familiar location honestly shocked me back to life.

It was fun watching Chrollo turn his own Nen ability into something of a game. Or rather, a metagame. The Nen system IS a game to him, and he picks it apart and exploits loopholes, turning what Hisoka certainly wants to be a physical fight into a mind game of deceit and confusion. It was also fun to watch Hisoka turn a human head into a flail.

I actually didn't have a problem with Hisoka's self-resuscitation. I was more upset to see the unceremonious death of characters I liked, but on a purely technical level, I think the reason Hisoka's hand exploded was dissatisfying.

>>155890784
Except it does.

I don't read HxH to see fanservice, "super epic fights", and the other shit people read OPM for. That's fine for OPM not this series. Even if he were able to replicate Togashi's art style, the mood and atmosphere would be lost or completely different.

You 2011 bandwagoner kids need to beat it.

>>155890832
Yeah imagine redrawing a fucking unfinished sketch.

Never go full retard.

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>>155890934
>Even if he were able to replicate Togashi's art style,

Accept no substitute

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>>155890979
>unfinished sketch
>he wasnt here back then

lol...

>>155890784
Regardless of how pointless that would be, I don't think Murata's style fits the series.

Also even though he's drawn plenty of gore in OPM I don't know if he'd draw the kind of disturbing stuff you see in HxH. I wouldn't really be interested in how he might sex up the female designs or make some characters more handsome either.

Stop replying to disgusting tripfags.

>>155891102
Why doesn't everyone have all tripfags blocked? I don't get it.

>>155890934
no, it can have the same style and still be good, that doesn't make any sense, making something more detailed and actually drawing backgrounds won't afect the mood and the atmosphere at all

>>155891000
>>155891049
Yeah, this doesn't change what I said.

I saw a picture of unfinished Berserk scans when Miura was drawing the new arc. If he had posted them, people would think he lost his touch.

He didn't, it's an unfinished sketch you dumdums

>>155890934
>I'd wait 2 years for mediocrity
Stockholm syndrome is a disease, my dude.

>>155890250
And a magical wish granting girl/boy/it isn't?

>>155891053
if he drew with Togashi's style (as in the character designs), make it not as sketchy and draw backgrounds it would be okay for me, there are some page in the manga that are barely readable

>>155891180
Yes, it would.

You can try to mimic someone's style but you aren't them. You don't have thier experience or quirks. Togashi's come from being a big fan of horror movies. Plus he's of the generation were outright violent imagery and creepy shit could be accepted in a shonen magazine.

No matter how good Murata is, it won't be the same, it'll be like OPM. Biscuit would be like Tatsumaki and Machi would have heaving tits, the stuff the underage crowd wants. No thanks

>>155891280
Unless you completely ignored Alluka's origins, that's not what happened.

Hell, even if Alluka's didn't exist, Leorio fixing Gon and dealing with his contract is fucking retarded.

>>155891102
I use anonymise, so I dont even see trips senpai

>>155891334
You do know that one punch man isn't muratas primary work or genre right

>>155884153
I just don't know how this much bullshit is possible when the fuck has months on end to fix his errors. Dragon Quest must have possessed him for the majority of the day for his ass to be this incompetent with his record breaking hiatuses.

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>>155890826
>Chrollo vs Hisoka lasts 46 chapters
all of my yes

>>155891206
no what you didnt get is those are pictures that were published in shounen jump at the time.

it was good times.

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>>155890832
>>155891000
>>155891049

>>155891334
what if he just basicly traced Togashi's sketches and then finished them? that way there would be no style difference problem, he would just be finishing Togashi's drawings by adding some detail

you're trying to act just adding one thing Togashi's drawing would completely change the manga, like, his art is not good, the atmosphere comes from the characters (I agree that the designs should stay the same) and the events taking place, improving Togashi's shitty art wouldn't change that

>>155891583
*you're trying to act like just adding one to Togashi's drawing

>Chrollocuck Vs Hisocuck
Why did we waste time on two of the shitiest characters in the manga?
It wasn't even a good fight as Chrollo looked weird and it had one of the worst asspulls in the series.

>>155891438
That doesn't matter. Murata has his own style and if given the chance he adds what he wants. That means lewd stuff. Machi, Shizuku, and Palm would have double D chests. And the standard badass shonen fare with buildings blowing up and the grins. That's not what I read this series for.

>>155881667
>That fucking art
Togashi really has it made he can just scribble shit on a napkin and get paid

>>155891732
That would be bad because?

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>>155891206


Here is one of the end pages for you to see

Almost the entirety of the ant arc was like this. it only got partially redrawn for volume releases. This is literally how it released in Shounen jump. His excuse was that he was sick.

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>>155881152
If you legitimately don't know: Hisoka has the ability to make his Nen elastic and sticky (hence the "properties of rubber and gum" meme). It is also said that sometimes residual Nen actually becomes stronger after death. Chrollo himself shows this with the Sun and Moon ability he has stolen for himself. Chrollo can steal abilities and put them in a book, but if the original owner dies, the ability disappears. This did not happen for Sun and Moon: it instead got stronger. This rare feature of Nen was actually explained a long time ago: sometimes a Nen user dies, and Nen that they have active at the time of death can for whatever reason sometimes strengthen instead of dissipating.

Hisoka lost the fight. He curled up into a ball and did "something" before he got carpet bombed. Chrollo skedaddled to avoid the attention of the pleb masses while three of his subordinates got in and retrieved Hisoka's body. They determined that he was dead as a door nail, but after some seemingly arbitrary period of time, his last trick was given the okay by Death to activate, and what he had done was stick his Nen between his heart and the inner walls of his body and ordered them to continuously contract and expand to essentially massage his heart and force it to start beating again. He stood up, looking like a fucking zombie, but seemingly fine and promptly started mowing down Chrollo's buddies.

People thought it was a huge asspull, but I honestly think the reasoning behind Hisoka's hand exploding during the fight was the more egregious display of Nen.

>>155891848
Is there any shonen even near HxH's greatness?

>>155891583
No, it wouldn't . Then Murata would have to restrain himself and Togashi would hover over him telling what part is or isn't necessary to draw. It's a waste of time.

And Togashi's art isn't even bad. I hear that alot from 2011 underage whiners. If you can tell the difference between a person's unique style and wanting "detail" every which way then please you're better off just reading OPM.

You shouldn't complain about that, at least you know Murata will post chapters.

>>155891732
if he's told not to he wouldn't do that, and you only use that argument because of Fubuki, but honestly, I might criticize Togashi's art, but compared One's his art is amazing. One's art is so bad that Murata had to basically start from scratch to draw some characters, go look at One's Fubuki design, it's literally nothing, you can't tell her body shape at all so Murata drew her as he wanted

Genos on the other hand has more detail so Murata drew him similar to One's design, same thing would happen to every character in HxH

>>155891981
why the emphasis on 2011? the 99 anime wasn't a bunch of animated sketches on a white background either

>>155892060
FMA is trash and YYH is nothing but a proto-HxH.
Opinion D I S C A R D E D

>>155891773
I just said it.

That's not what I and alot of people read this series for. If I want to see tits and "cool shit" like explosions, with characters giving grins all the time, I read something else.
>>155891795
>excuse
I see we got someone who knows Togashi was somehow lying about his ailing health.

>>155891853
It was a huge asspull though
Clown wans't even sure it was going to work but it did
The cardiac massage was enough to "resurrect" him
Togashi can literally asspull anything with nen now to suit his story

>>155880817
>What the fuck was the point of this?


fanservice

>>155891981
>And Togashi's art isn't even bad.


Post 1 (ONE) serialized weekly manga with worse art

>>155892200
I don't even like jojogarbage.

>>155880817
To deliver the fight. Fags got butthurt by the fight, but it was classic HxH. More interesting were the developments after the fight and what they'll potentially mean for the arc as a whole. Too bad we'll never see at this rate.

>>155891732
You're retarded.

>>155892045
There's literally no point to it at all.

Genos looks like a pretty boy and fits the kind of "cool and badass" aesthetic Murata gives all the male characters that aren't one-off jokes or made to look silly. I've seen Eyeshield 21, I know what I'm talking about.
>>155892086
Keyword here being sketches.

I can bring up unfinished work from other series if you want. The fact Togashi published his is because he's lazy

>>155891981
>togashis art "style"
They're LITERALLY fucking sketches you ridiculous dickrider. Yeah I fucking love HxH too, I marathoned both the god damn anime but his fucking art is tragic.

>>155892446
I cant believe Togashi has a blind fanboy

You would think with hiatus after hiatus he would have pissed everyone off

>>155892415
>good art every month but with a slightly different style
or
>waiting a shit ton months to see unfinished sketches with Togashi's original style

>>155881667
I don't know shit about HxH, but from thumbnail it looks like a person has who boobs with nipples so big you could fist them.

>>155891970
Houshin Engi
Gash Bell
Yu-Gi-Oh!

>>155892401
Nice argument, nitwit

Go back to OPM for god's sake. It's actually ongoing, you don't have to read this series you know.

>>155892162
I don't read anything else because the whole scene got boring. Except for Berserk and Vinland Saga

>>155880817

To make due on the promise of them fighing since York Shin. To make due on the promise that Lucifer is over powered as hell when he fights seriously. To make due on Hisoka getting his ass handed to him for the very first time and finally making him fully unhinged and desperate.

Hisoka also knows now that killing members of the spider makes Lucifer weaker in turn, he is simply making his way through them all in the manga to him one by one.

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>>155892565
>I don't read anything else


>has a blanket statement on art and story quality of other manga

>>155892446
> I marathoned both the god damn anime
Which is why I can't take you seriously.

>>155892488
>>155892509
So now it's devolved to whiny meme kids and some fag that wants everything to be drawn by Murata.

Like why are you here? There's like plenty other series you can read with better art.

>>155892731
I am here because I like the story and want it to eventually be drawn.

It doesn't even have to be murata. Literally pick any other artist besides Togashi. It can't be togashi because he doesnt want to do it. What's the point in sucking his dick if wont even finish his own manga.


He drew like a dozen chapters in 5 years. If you thought he was terminally ill he could draw more than that

>>155892608
Except if you could actually read. Mentioning series like OPM and Eyeshield 21 both done by Murata and Berserk and so on means I have read other series. It's pretty much wish washing to me currently aside from the one's I already said I read/still read.

Goddamn, that's not hard to grasp, lol

>>155892731
I'm here cuz I like the story but don't like looking at manga with shit art

it's like reading a book with a really good story but the actual sentences are written so poorly you can't overlook it

that's how it is to be an HxH fan, and that's how it is for you, but you want to sound deep and mature so you ignore how mediocre his art his and pretend that it's his unique style

>>155893075
*his art is

>>155880817

To forward the plot. It didn't happen in the way you expected, but it happened. Character dynamics changed.

>>155892799
Well, you're gonna have to keep waiting, lol.

Claiming he doesn't want to draw like you have some link to Togashi that the rest of us don't have is silly. I don't cry about it because this series isn't my end all be all.

Fucking anybody aside from 2011 memers knows Togashi's talented. You don't think so because it's either you don't like his style and quirks or would rather latch on to the unfinished sketches as being indicative of his drawing ability which is stupid as hell.

If you can't handle that, drop it, wait for it to come back, or wait for the anime to adapt the rest. And there's only one option that's the easiest and least stressful on your part.

>>155893075
Yeah, that's real cute.

>>155893186
talent is not an excuse for laziness.

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>>155893236
>tfw to smart too enjoy backgrounds

>>155892731
What does marathoning the anime have to do with being cognizant of the fact that his art isn't art and are literal sketches being published in a magazine.

>>155893278
Never said it was. I know Togashi's a lazy fuck.
>>155893319
Tell that to Kubo

>200 posts
>81 posters
>1 retarded fanboy
Impressive.

>>155893393
Parroting the same meme doesn't make an argument more valid.

>>155893427
at least Kubo can still draw the characters well, too bad his storymaking skills are shit

>>155880817
Say what you want but witnessing Quworfcucks vs Clowntards week after week and watching the countless threads unfold is one of my dearest memories.

>>155893542
Kubo's character design is pretty cool but got stale and predictable. It was better in the SS arc. Only exception is Yhwach

>>155893606
towards the end he made all male characters have the same model like face, like that fire finger dude looked exactly like Kensei with a different haircut but hey, at least it was pretty well drawn

>>155884153
Phew thought it was serious until the oda part. Good one anon

>>155893706
Yeah, I mean Adult Hitsugaya is the shining example of the same stale pretty boy shit Kubo gives all the male characters. If there's no variety or anything distinctive about them, it makes them bland and forgettable.

>>155880817
Why even have RUBBER AND GUM and Danchou fight if Togashi wasn't willing to write one out of the story? Hisoka should've known fighting Chrollo on his own terms would most likely end badly and we wouldn't have to deal with this asspull. This was purely fanservice.

>>155893860
Because it spurs character growth, changes their dynamic, and sets up an even more climactic showdown.

>>155880817
Hype out HxH plot before a major hiatus hits so fans can endure it
kinda expect the biggest hiatus in manga history.

>>155882036

Laws and police are for the little people.
Remember, goy, nen is too dangerous to be allowed to become public knowledge.

>>155880817

holy shit what does properties of rubber and gum even mean?

>>155893900
It seems pretty obvious to me now that Hisoka is going to win should they ever fight again

when did this fight even happen? was it last year?

>HxH is on endless hiatus
>literally the only other worthy shounen is on hiatus hell too

>>155890329
Wasn't counting Meruem because Hisoka didn't he existed. He evaluated the Zodiacs and though they were shit. Killua dad and grandpa probably couldn't do much either considering both of them couldn't do shit to Chrollo WITHOUT preptime.

>>155894397
whats the other?

>>155890826
>Chrollo vs Hisoka lasts 46 chapters

How is that a bad thing?

>>155894598
Berserk

>>155894620
I am audibly laughing as I type this

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>HxH is in hiatus limbo stuck on a boat
>Berserk finally got off the boat and is getting new chapters

>>155894579
Hisoka's word counts for shit. he was pretty certain he could beat Chrollo as well

>>155894579
Zeno and Silva were waiting for Illumi to kill the Godfathers though, if they really went all out I think they could've killed him

>>155894598
World Trigger.

>>155894620
ive tried reading berserk multiple times and dumpstered it every time

Berserk's back, Black Lagoon's back, Vagabond's back, this entire year is nothing but continuations.

If Togashi doesn't come back, I've lost all hope.

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>>155894046

It means Hisoka can make his aura sticky, stretchy, and bouncy. Mostly sticky and stretchy though.
It has many uses, from achieving high maneuverability, to putting a leash on the enemy, to making makeshift shields, to launching projectiles, to even being used to create small or massive flails. Lulling and misleading enemies with his magician persona, Hisoka combines this simple yet versatile ability with his superior physical strength and razor cards to be a very deadly combatant.

Unfortunately there are weaknesses. For such a lethal tool, rubber and gum is sorely lacking in true offensive firepower or defensive prowess. Chrollo knew this, and prepared a scenario where Hisoka would be overwhelmed with hordes of zombie-like puppets featuring suicide bombers.

>>155894682
> he was pretty certain he could beat Chrollo as well
He was sure he could beat Chrollo without preptime. The whole reason for letting Chrollo fight on his own terms was for Hisoka himself to get btfo

It'll be fun to see Chrollo slowly break as Hisoka kills the other Spiders one by one and all the nen users that had their abilities stolen by Chrollo until only he is left and gets ambushed somewhere isolated trying to hide from Hisoka.

Hisoka got fuckign doggstroyed in this bout. But he had to be a buthurt faggot and kill Chorllo's pals

>>155895625
I've never seen an angry Chrollo and he lit up an entire city as an ode to one friend dying.

That boat is as good as sunk.

>>155881667
this kind of cheapened Nen for me. I had no problem with post death nen beforehand, the speculation on Kurapika made sense due to his deep grudge, and Terpsichora was more than excusable with Pitou's unparalleled devotion to her king, but Hisoka here was just like "lol might as well try this"
Way too nonchalant for something that was built up as a very mental, emotional force.

>>155896389
Well, you can see there's a clear change in Hisoka after that was done. It probably affected him mentally but he doesn't show it.

Why did Kirapika stop hunting the Spiders? Hisoka has to do his job for him now.

>>155897424
How am I dumb? Explain what exactly I'm missing out on.

>>155893587
Mine too. Fucking threads were hilarious.

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>>155895653
You're just mad Hisoka went balls deep in the shithead and SSJ wannabe and probably raped Machi's plump, thicc, and tight pussy. This is what happens when you fuck with the meme clown/magician.

The Phantom Troupe is Fairy Tail villain tier by the way.

>>155898899
I said probably fucked Machi with his bungee cum but he did do everyone else dirty. Don't be surprised when she's pregnant after the timeskip. Which you'll never see.

>>155881667
>>155880817


Basically when Hisoka's Nen revived himself, he should have woken up as a vegetable and everything that happens after that impossible, including even recognizing Machi and greeting her.

He specifically only used it on his heart and lungs.

No matter how good you are, nothing can help you when your brain has died.

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>>155899195
Well I don't have any Machi lewds but I got the best Hunter x Hunter doujin. Goreinu and Pitou even got some character development.

>>155881152
basically it's the battle shounen version of this scene

https://youtu.be/QH4QZaSa3OI?t=1m6s

>>155899786
Name?

>>155900179
New Fag Time

>>155900296
Oh come on, spoonfeed me pls.

>>155900368
just search Goreinu on panda.

>>155900296
Nevermind I found it.

>>155880817
Not only was it unnecessary, it was terrible. Togashi may just be burning through characters because he's lazy as fuck and promised to kill them in interviews.

It's a shame because the arc with Gon's dad genuinely seems pretty good.

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>>155899786
Oh my.

>>155900479
>emperor's cat time
>t-that thick aura

lmao this shit is great

>>155898796
>The Phantom Troupe is Fairy Tail villain tier by the way.
They're good villains. Uvogin, Feitan, Revolver girl, Machi, and Chrollo are all really likeable.

Sphinx has the dumbest ability ever though.

>>155894686
chrollo wasn't going all out either. iirc he was trying to fulfill the conditions of his power so that he can steal theirs.

>>155901593
If re-read the part and you're right, Zeno and Silva didn't go all out and neither did Chrollo since he wanted to steal their Hatsu

>>155900710
You mean you like their abilities and coolness factor but they're the most shallow fucks I've seen in years. Most of them are still alive 300 chapters later and are still one-dimensional without any clarity.

>>155899751
We don't really know the specifics. He worked the nen on his lungs and heart so from the point of death he could have been pumping and breathing but without cognitive input. It's kind of weird to get hung up on that.

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>>155900671
This is the same artist but you probably saw it already. The Goreinu x Pitou version is still the best one because of the budding romance between the two.

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>>155899786
Just watched them die in the anime. Fucking hell. I was expecting them both to have a somewhat epic showdown but damn. Having your favorite character die by a literal asspull is somewhat depressing.

>>155904024
Whose Goreinu? Is he from some other anime or from 1999?

>>155904371
I hate that too, Gon goes the whole series sparing his enemies even murderers like Genthru but when he finally decides to kill someone it has to be best girl.

>>155904371
>Just watched them die in the anime. Fucking hell. I was expecting them both to have a somewhat epic showdown but damn.
Wait, Pitou and who else died? Goreinu? did the dude fucking die and it went completely over my head?

>>155884153
>Oda
What the fuck is Asura and how does Zoro use it?

>>155885531
Who is this dick dunk?

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>>155904404
Yeah I think it's the same guy. I could be wrong.

>>155904878
It's genderbent so it's just a normal Hisoka rape doujin. Also traps aren't gay.

>>155904878
Unfortunately it isn't a trap doujin

>>155904371
Pitou deserved it honestly but I wouldn't mind if Gon fucked her instead. I mean worse has happened in general and she gets to stay in the series.

>You'll never see Chrollo mental break down as Hisoka rapes him on top of the corpses on the troupe
Kill me.

>>155905180
>Killed Gon's favorite mentor Kite-sama
>Didn't offer up the goods immediately
>Lied about Kite-sama's revival

It was either hate fucking or brutal domination.

>>155904982
Euphoria part ll.

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>>155904982

>>155905500
No one had any idea about Kite's revival until Kite himself said he was alive again

Also Gon was being selfish, he let other murderers get away just because they didn't kill anyone close to him.

>>155906193
Gon is just a flawed character in and of itself. He hated that the Phantom Troupe cared about themselves and no one else yet he does the same thing by disregarding the murderers that doesn't harm his own friends.

It may be just a terrible case of hypocrisy but I'll consider it shit writing since it never gets brought up.

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>Yfw

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I want to fuck Pitou

>>155907256
I think you've made that clear enough for the past 4 years or so, we all do.

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>>155880817
I think Togashi wanted to compensate the fans for enduring the long hiatus we had last time. Most fans (and I mean people who actually enjoy and have fun with the manga, not the jaded basement dwellers who complain about everything on /a/) were hyped for this fight and it actually delivered. It was very enjoyable and we had effective cliffhangers every week, keeping us at the edge of our seats. In the end he obviously decided not to kill either of them and instead branched a new "arc" which would be Hisoka versus the Phantom Troupe. I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

So what's worse hiatus wise, HxH or Berserk?

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>>155907503
>Did nothing amoral
>Killed his nigga

Stop the bullshit, you'd do the same thing if it was Hisoka, Genthru, or even Machi. Pitou deserved the fate she got, my man.

Though I would have definitely made her my sex slave and raised lots of chimera half-breeds with her. Can't waste good pussy and a house wife either.

>>155882335
>defibrillate your fucking heart?
>what is cardiac massage

>>155882493
I think 100 + floor fights are not allowed to be in unless you have mad money and at that point you likely have shady connection and get to know what Nen is

>>155882493
>If civilians in the HxH aren't supposed to know what Nen is (for some reason)
A) it takes a fucking lot of work to even get around teh basics
B) even getting your Nen to flow is a pain in the ass the normal way
C) how many people will you think will die if they try Baptism
D) status quo military wise. you dont ever see the mention of military men NEN only

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>>155907999
Pretending Pitou could have reproduced sexually even though that likely isn't the case, what exactly would the offspring be? Would they cease being ants at that point if sired by human gametes?

>>155907741
HxH, Berserk has been off the boat for awhile now and is currently getting new chapters.

>>155884205
>but not Chrollo
Chrollo is a hunter too, hell Shalknar is was a Hunter too

>Last chapter was 10 months ago

>>155908248
She's at least half human so you'd most likely get human children that are 25% Chimera Ant. They would look human but have cat ears or a nail.

>>155908854
*tail

>>155908289
When did Chrollo ever get a license? Does this mean legally he can only be charged with theft?

>>155908248
Well yes my dear man. Since Pitou is half human and half chimera ant and I'm human, the chimera ant genes would be reduced to a 1/4 after our genes are passed down.

It's like Gohan being half saiyan and half human so if Pitou could reproduce, the offspring should be mostly 3/4 human but with feline features such as a tail and cat ears.

>>155908175
But they're shown on television throughout the entire world too.
Which reminds me, does Kurapika know that Chrollo is back in action?

>>155880817
Reignite hype in the series.

>>155908761
>he still cares
I gave up on HxH years ago. Just like Berserk.
If it updates, neat.
If it doesn't, whatever.
I ain't gonna check every week, or even every month for updates.

tfw didn't bother catching up while the hisoka x chrollo fight was going on and missed out on the O MY RUBBER NEN shitposting which is a lot funnier with context

>>155890717
The weirdest thing to me is that if you buy/steal a Hunter License from someone else, you still get the privileges like all the free shit. That never made any fucking sense, if the guy holding the card isn't the owner he shouldn't be able to use it, just like any card in existence.

>>155880817
Damn Hisoka is thicc

>>155910155
I guess they feel like that anyone that can successfully steal a license from a hunter is worthy enough to use it.

>>155910847
What if someone just buys the license or pays someone else to steal it for them?

>>155910979
Then they feel the same about people rich enough to buy what they want, money is power after all.

>>155910140
How can you give up on Berserk when they got off the boat? In these times we must BELIEVE.

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>>155880974

>>155911860
>tfw you nut and Gon keeps sucking

>>155886969
Man, fuck off. It's a shonen manga. The character fights at mach speeds and can destroy buildings

>>155894579
>>155894686
Are you fucking retarded? Zeno and Silva were about to easily kill Chrollo, what the fuck is your problem? Do you honestly think Chrollo would survive against two Zoldyck? Or did you forget the fact that Zeno wasn't sure of the outcome with a 1v1 against Chrollo both serious, meaning that in a 2v1 the Zoldyck would absolutely wreck Chrollo?

>>155910155
Is there not a line on that very page that says
>Only the original recipient of the license has access to the privileges of a Hunter, meaning someone who buys or steals a license will not receive any special benefits.[2]

>>155912669
That contradicts several parts of the Manga that say otherwise.

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>>155911808
>Got off the boat
>Now reliving the eclipse again on an island where time is slow as fuck
>Hiatus again

This year should be enough for everyone to get over these unfinished mangas.

>>155906614
It's not brought up because HxH isn't a preachy series. Gon is selfish? So is pretty much everyone.

>>155912896
The entire Chimera Ant arc was everyone preaching over new revelations and about what is right for world and the survival of their species n shit.

Otherwise it's just a couple of villains who don't give a fuck. This is also where Gon was talking the most shit, what a self-entitled brat.

>>155895327
He has no idea what those zodiac powers or preptime or anything are like either

He seemed to be rating aura quality. Which is fine to an extent but even more so is your hatsu.

>>155912896
Also, Gon's issue is that the Troupe could casually kill people who had nothing to do with them while making a big fuss about their losses. He won't fault someone for being incorrigibly evil, but the Troupe showed themselves to just be selfish and uncaring.

While not as terrible, Gon shows himself to be similarly selfish when things get personal.
>The entire Chimera Ant arc was everyone preaching over new revelations and about what is right for world and the survival of their species n shit.
Yeah but it's all self-interested in the end. Since it's natural behavior in the series, it's not really something to point it. We'd think Gon would be much better because he's the protagonist and not a mass murdering thug, but he's not too different.

>>155913224
That's what I'm saying. If Togashi was such a good writer, then Gon's development would of went some where. Instead he's still a goofy fuck but he doesn't even realize he's a psychopath and a hypocrite.

His savagery on Pitou wasn't even taken note of when a 14 year old shouldn't be doing that fucked up shit but of course it's overlooked..

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>>155892510
>>155892510
>a person has who boobs with nipples so big you could fist them

Great, now I have to go rewatch Haha Musume Donburi. Are you happy?

>>155913692
>psychopath
The cat murdered someone he cared about and turned his corpse into a puppet. Gon's anger and hypocrisy was both childish and completely understandable.

>>155913038
Yeah, I bet Hisoka would give like 60 to Pariston but his hatsu would fucking destroy him

It's amazing how people call stuff that's perfectly inside what's been established as the workings of Nen an "asspull" just because they don't like it.

What's the closest real life equivalent to a hunter licence?

>>155913692
Gon himself isn't super interesting as a character, but he serves as a catalyst for the development of much of the HxH cast.

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>>155880817
Togashi just wanted to give the fans the fight they've been waiting for before the series went on a permanent hiatus.

>>155917771
commission card

>>155918364
Agreed.

>>155913692
What the hell are you talking about? That's just you not paying attention.

Gon was never normal. He himself noted how selfish he can be. Hell, Morel called him insane to his face.

His conversation with Kite, Ging and Mito shows hints of self-reflection.

>>155920789
>Gon was never normal.
Relatively normal though.

>>155892539
Gash Bell was good

>>155890784
Murata circle jerkers are the worst
I doubt you faggots have even read any of his garbage

>>155922886
How you figure?

>>155882976
Nigga what

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so how exactly strong do you guys think brion?

>>155926590
Pretty strong but I wouldn't compare it to Meruem just yet.

Brion may have a higher rating that the Chimera Ants but Meruem ,and to a lesser extent the Royal guards, are outliers..

>>155926590
Not strong enough.

>>155880930
we already knew that

>>155912864
That hiatus is over, Berserk is doing monthly chapters again for now.

http://www.mangahere.co/manga/berserk/c348/

>>155928832
But for how long?

>>155930428
Only Mirua knows

>>155928832
See you in 5 months when he takes another hiatus of unspecified length.

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>>155911950
>10/10

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>>155926590

As strong as it needs to be.
Brion seems to be a genetically engineered hivemind species of parasitic plants. The spheres appear in swarms of 10-100 and hijack the bodies of invaders.

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>>155907999
>deserved the fate she got
>she

That aside, no, they didn't, There was nothing wrong with anything they did through the entire arc.

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>>155933336
Female

>>155933888
Pitiou wasnt created with the ability of reprodution, same for the royal guard and the king, they serve their point, and the only one whos point is reproduction is the queen.

Pitous litterally agender

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>>155933589
>>155933888

No way we can verify that anymore.

>>155934083
Female ants are sterile but they're still female. All the Royal Guards are technically female.

>>155934083
Source my ass?

>>155904371
>asspull
>muh epic shounen showdown
I thought Pitoufags weren't complete retards.

>>155935888
>muh edgy asspull
Nice projection faggot.

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>>155936019
>Gon being an hypocrite is an asspull
So you ARE indeed a retard! It was shown that he doesn't care much about death unless it concerns someone he knows. All he did was because Pitou killed Kite, not the thousands of other people. Plus he judged that it was his fault as much as Pitou's.

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>>155936144
>>muh edgy asspull
What are you even trying to convey through that greentext?
>projection
You don't know what this word means or how it's used.
You sound like an underage redditor who just discovered 4chan and tries to use as much of its "lingo" as possible without knowing how or any of its meaning.

>>155936298
Yes, that's literally the point of his character arc. Or are you trying to tell me it was supposed to portay him as righteous? How do you interpret the scene of him threatening to kill a complete innocent he doesn't even know to get what he wants then?
Are you an honest to god idiot or are you pulling my leg?

>>155935549
How bees works irl is enough dont you think, ant workers dont get any sex during their lifetime cause they are not supposed to be (nor equipped to do such thing), by design.

>>155936670
IRL ants don't have royal guards or a king so that's a pretty moot point. Not to mention all the other genetic fuckery from consuming mammals and shit.

>>155936670
and they're still female, so you've only played yourself.

>>155936657
>blah blah blah redditor get out of my chan
So mad.

>>155936670
Pitou is half human which means she should be able to have a child with a human that would be 3/4th human and 1/4 CA. It works for Saiyans after all, Goku was able to have a half breed child and then Gohan has a 1/4th saiyan child now.

>>155936793
>moot
Why did you have to say that word?

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>>155937292
Absolutely incorrect. the manga specifically states that only male ants and the queen are able to breed. Even when Zazan called herself breeding new ants all she really did was stab niggas which causes them to mutate into monsters.

>>155926590
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>155930433
Floki ?

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>>155937292
Also it's been mentioned by Knov that Chimera Ants are capable of reproducing with other species in case the queen dies.

>>155936657
You have a point when saying that what happened with Gon was not indeed an asspull, since an asspull is something that comes from thin air that not even the author himself can explain. What I want to say is that since Pitou killed Kite making Gon hold a grudge against them, I had great expectations for the battle that would settle things between them for once and for all (hell, even at the end Pitou had an actual reason to fight Gon) just for it to end with "Gon punches Pitou then Pitou dies". It wasn't an asspull, but I personally think there was room for way more than how it finally developed as.