Is it fair to say that this guy shaped shonen into what it is today?

>>155272093
yeah, probably

More or less

Who is he? Araki?

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>>155272093
Masami Kurumada made a big contribution to shounen with Ring ni Kakero and Saint Seiya. The latter brought the fujoshis and was a big influence on Yu Yu Hakusho, Naruto and Bleach.

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>>155272534
>fujoshis
The anime made things too easy for them.

>>155272093
Sort of, Toriyama popularized many of the recurring tropes in (battle) shonen.

Tournament Arcs, martial arts, friendship, fantastical events, etc.

>>155272093
Toryiama is god

>>155272464
Come on.

shonen bump!

>>155272093
This man single handedly saved the manga and anime industry from extinction.

>>155272464
is miura

>>155272464
Filename, dumbass

>>155272093
That guy is a monster he was a gag artist who probably didn't like the battle stuff that much but he completely blows out any other artist out of the water when it comes to fight choreography.
Hell even the most iconic transformation in anime and manga history was just an excuse he came up with to cut corners.
He is a real monster.

>>155272093
Of course. What a dumb question. Authors like Oda, Kishimoto and Togashi are mangaka because of him.

>>155272093
Hokuto no Ken mangakas disagree.

>>155275697
What is the most impressive things Akira Toriyama has done? Can anyone else compete?

>>155272093
It's probably Kuramada, Hara/Buronson and Yudetamago who were really responsible but Toriyama is up there.

If it wasn't for this guy anime and manga wouldn't be the same, Dbz is astonishing in what it did to the medium

>>155276446
>What is the most impressive things Akira Toriyama has done?
Made the most popular manga in the world by making it up as he went along and by the GOAT fight scene artist in the medium.

I love how, for example, Murata has as much time as he wants to draw fights exactly how he wants in OPM and yet they still aren't as good as the shit Toriyama pulled out of his arse on a weekly basis during DB.

>>155279854
Why aren't Murata's fights as good?

>>155280035
Not the same guy, but vegeta and recoome was insane.
The movement flowed so well and clear it almost looked like it was animated.
Murata is great and one of the best in the industry, but Toriyama really was something else.
I never read the manga, but when I saw that I was just blown away.

>>155280035
Toriyama's fights in the manga are all very fluid, the action goes from one scene to another seamlessly, it's fast paced without ever being too difficult to follow (comapred to something like say Trigun where I literally could not see what the fuck was happening half the time). It's like a Jackie Chan movie choreography but in manga form.

>>155280035
There's an image that has Goku punching Piccolo and Murata making a tribute to that scene. In that image you can see how clean, imaginative and precise the work of Toriyama is. Murata is an amazing artist there's no deny in that, but in the same picture you can see that his attention to details also work against him by taking focus from the action.

>>155280777
>it's fast paced without ever being too difficult to follow (comapred to something like say Trigun where I literally could not see what the fuck was happening half the time
I blame that on Trigun's messy ass linework more than anything else

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>>155272464
>Jojofags

>>155279569
DB > DBZ

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>>155280933

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>>155281335
That's the one. Thanks.

>>155280933
>>155281335
Toriyama originally being used to comedy actually helped in composition for fight scenes.
He kept things clear and clean, didn't get pages too busy in order for things to be easier to read into. Sure it is a bit stiff but what you gain in ease of reading makes the final result flow much better. Like comedy, it's drawn with fluidity in mind rather than peaks of action.
Plus, the exagerated and distorded faces add to the quick understanding.
It's great and the best part is, he didn't even try. He didn't have to.

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Any time I hear someone say DB is shit it's a guarantee that they haven't read the manga, all the problems of the anime are a non-issue (up to a point) in the manga.

>>155281137
Line work is still important though when it comes to stuff like action. It might look stylish but if it hinders the purpose of the scene it's kind of pointless. Toriyama's simple style works massively in his favour for fight scenes, he seems to like to save detail for animals and machines instead.

>>155281575
There's a similar situation in Ranma 1/2. While Maison Ikkoku and UY are better than Ranma, the action scenes on Ranma are quite good and clean. Just like you said, a comedy artist has to be really clean and fluid in his work and when it comes to portraying action, this is an advantage for them.

>>155281335
>>155281701
I miss Toriyama's rounder style. Saddens me that it pretty much died out by DB's halfway point.

>>155282117
I really hate his angular muscle fetish he had going on for a bit. His peak style for me was saiyan saga.

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>>155280777
>Toriyama's fights in the manga are all very fluid, the action goes from one scene to another seamlessly
The same can be said for Murata.

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>>155283818

>>155272093
Toriyama is vastly overrated

super is proof of that

dragonball was only good because the editors kept him on a tight leash

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>>155283861

>>155276446
What's interesting is that if you read about his life you find out that he wasn't even into manga as much as you think a mangaka would be. He began his career on a whim with no prior practice and entered a contest only for the prize money after quitting his job as a poster designer. Shortly after that he came out with his first smash hit Dr. Slump when he got tired of that he started Dragon Ball.

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>>155283946

>>155283818
Don't get me wrong. That looks amazing, but the huge amount of speed lines and a basic panel use makes the whole sequence less impressive than let's say Goku vs Freeza or Goku SS3 vs Kid Buu.

>>155272093
Yeah. Shounen and basically 99% of all over the top non gorey action media aimed at males today.

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>>155284038
>>155284040
>but the huge amount of speed lines and a basic panel
Speedlines are quite prominent in Toriyama's fights as well. Not sure what you mean about basic panels use.

>>155281335
See I disagree, I think Toriyama's blow looks more static and even kind of silly out of context. Although Murata has the one being punched as almost an afterthought.

>>155273972
DBZ also basically created the major anime boom in the west and probably helped many young men, an entire generation, decide to get off of their ass and exercise and do martial arts.


Not only that but many of them decided to be fathers and patterned themselves after goku and piccolo and vegeta...to a lesser extent.

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>>155284223
Toriyama's art is considerable more clean than Murata. His use of speed lines is amazing. The use of panel is that there aren't variation, it's mostly rectangle. Toriyama also gave advices to his successor Toyotaro about using the panels in a more creative way, which he did but still struggles with the speed lines.

Just look at this, brutal and clean.

>>155284362
You just know Toriyama would get coked up bang four whores then get into brutal all night bar fights to get inspiration for DB.

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>>155284423
It helps that he met Jackie Chan who gave him a few advices on how to portrait action.
He also met Senna.

>>155284223
Here for example is different use of panels. But this isn't from him but from his apprentice.

>>155284362
>viz scans

what the shit are you doing?

>>155284570
I took it from the previous DB thread. Didn't know it was from Viz.

>>155284520
>Do you any idea as to the amount of landscaping costs I've put back here?
This line never ceases to amaze me.
I just read it multiple times and let it sink in.

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>>155280035
>Why aren't Murata's fights as good?

>>155272534
I want Mexico to leave

>>155272093
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJK7oysHoMw

>>155275697
You know...of all the things to ripoff from Dragon Ball, why not ripoff/try to copy the fight coreographies?

I swear majority of battle shonen manga have completely incomprehensible fights where you have no idea what the fuck is going on

>>155281575
>Sure it is a bit stiff
On the contrary
AT's drawings feel like they're moving all the time

>>155280035
Because they watched DB first

>>155283818
>speed lines
YUCK

>>155272534
>Kurumada introduced faggots into manly battle shonen manga
Fucking drunktard.

>>155283872
>super is proof of that
Hello retard
He's not the one drawing Super

Also Cell Saga was completely modified by his former editor who kept bitching at him and it was the worst arc of the series by far and ruined Dragon Ball forever

A series can't stay amazing forever. Especially one like Dragon Ball with it's frequent timeskips and it's frequent increases in power levels. That's why everything after Freeza sucked dick

>>155272464
the Jojo anime was a mistake

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>>155272093
that looks nothing like based tezuka

>>155284520
>But this isn't from him but from his apprentice.
No wonder it looks so shitty

>>155284281
are you fucking high? this is the most idiotic and inane comment I've ever read

>>155287720
We're talking about recent authors

>>155287720
>astroboy
trash

>>155287815
just go to any hispanic country. every boy, and even some girls, liked DBZ, and quite a few of them grew up to be normal, healthy adults.

Not me, i was watching Lucky Star and Azumanga during most of my teenage years, so i grew up to be a degenerate

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>>155284362
>>155284520
So basically Murata uses speed lines too much, which makes his artwork look more messy and lessen the impact of them because of their constant use, rather then only using them during only pivotal panels.

And he should be more creative with how his panels display his artwork.

>>155288432
Yeah. But those are just my observations. I can't really say anything negative about him or lecture him because Murata is an amazing artist and probably one of the best of modern times. I was just pointing out why Toriyama's art at least for me is better, but if you prefer Murata over Tori, that's also valid.

>>155287911
I'm sure people who watched Speed Racer also turned into "healthy adults"

Don't blame anime for your laziness

>>155288432
I really don't get the hype with Murata
Like his technique and skill is good but his art to me always feels boring and soulless. Anyone else feel the same way?

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>>155288837
>Don't blame anime for your laziness
wut? when did i say i was lazy? I just have a fucked up sex-drive, but i still pay my bills.

>>155287769
What's wrong with it?

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>>155287599
The point is Kurumada left a mark on battle shounen manga and things were never the same

>>155272093
I really hope at my funeral I have a really awesome picture of me my relatives can put up instead of an open casket.

Man, dude looks so happy.

>>155281256
Dr.slump>DB>DBZ

>>155291248
Early DB is basically Dr.slump