What would you do to make it better?

Not cut all the crucial internal monologue.
Fade to black instead of dolphins.

Get rid of the rhino-faces.

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>>154143585
Make Sakura the main heroine and have Shirou realize how retarded trying to be a superhero is.

>>154143634
The point of UBW is that he realized exactly that. But it makes him happy, so why not try?

>>154143602

I came to shitpost "muh internal monologue", but it was unironically the first reply TOP KEK

Scrap it and wash my hands of it

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>>154144067
>why not try?

>>154144067
>>154144128
The grasp of a man should exceed his reach, impossible as it is.

I'd throw in some actual visual action between Shiro and Rin, even something as little as a kiss. Everybody wanted more to happen than just a confession.

>>154143585
Keep the studio, make it Fate route.

>>154144128
He knows what could lie ahead of him, but he'll try anyway. And whatever happens, he won't regret it.

>>154143585
Remove Shirou's ideals of toxic masculinity.

More archer.

>>154144186
Disgusting. UBW is the best part of stay night.

>>154143585
Watching it felt like reading the novel, in other words I fell asleep during the non-action parts.

It was quite good. I liked the extra content like Medea's backstory as a servant before going rogue, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that - I was actually pulling for maybe something with Bazett when Kotomine revealed himself to be Lancer's master during the attic encounter. The last episode was, of course, a pleasant surprise.

More elements like that would have been splendid.

Just adapt Apocrypha already

Pedos got their three seasons and a movie, mouthbreathers got a Grand Order movie for some fucking reason, stop jerking off Saber and give us Apocrypha already if no one's going to touch Extra

>>154143585
I liked it. The director made some mistakes, but those are not that obvious on the first watch. Other than that, I think it couldn't have been better than it was.

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>>154143585
Replace Saber with Scat.

>>154143585
Kill Saber.

The biggest plothole: Why the fuck wasn't Shirou's hand bandaged like in the VN? Everybody could see his fucking command seals.

>>154144309
Isn't SHAFT doing an Extra series?

>>154144309
Unfortunately, both Apocrypha and Extra are getting adaptations in 2017 and 2018 respectively. More cancer secondaries incoming.

>>154144387
because they forgot lol

>>154144403
If that's the case, I can't wait to see some delicious Caster action.

1) Get rid of the insulting GCI shit
2) Stop trying to animate the VN verbatim
3) Find better ways to convey Shirou's motivations and character development as the MC
4) Write out and rewrite the highschool crap, minimize it
5) Make it more intense and "realistic", like Zero (i.e. make it feel like the characters are actually in a life-or-death fight and get rid of the highschool crap)
6)Do Rin x Shirou better

they had 3 chances to make FSN adaptation good

>>154144352
>I think it couldn't have been better than it was.

It was boring though, like the VN

>>154143585
Build up the final battle more.

>>154144438
Its focused on Nero so we're not sure how much screentime Tamamo is getting.

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>>154143585
Assassin vs Saber missed the sword getting bent.

>>154144471
It would have been nice if they'd taken a more character-oriented focus initially. For example, start the show with Shirou's necessary backstory, then fast forward to >le highschool setting, focusing on Rin and Shirou's ordinary lives. Then bring in the magic grailwar shit, and slowly start showing the audience, in that context, that neither Shirou or Rin are really ordinary teenagers. Don't just go: "BOOM. Okay now they're magical teenagers in a fight for their lives (but not really because neither of them really changes as a character at all. Remember to attend class lols). EXPLOSIONS! We have to take absurd risks to save our classmates XD!"

>>154144471
Y'see, doing that would pretty much entail an entire reworking of the story.

>>154144471
>thread

>>154144510
The hilt broke in the anime.

You can't show Katana's being bent on TV, especially against western swords.

Skip it and adapt HF instead. Cull unnecessary scenes from HF, too. Include an OVA for Sparks Liner High and Mind of Steel ends.

>>154144471
There was the one iconic scene with Rin and Shirou, and that was great. Hard to mess that up, and Ufotable definitely did not. But aside from that, their relationship felt inappropriate and absolutely out of place with the rest of the plot

>The romance scene with Cu right before they plan on attending a life threatening "one in a million chance we both will not die" fight to the death with Archer, a servant, and Rin is blushing and acting all tsun because Shirou said he likes her

Jesus christmas, come on Japan

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>>154144544
And? That is bad why? God forbid we see a little creativity or compelling storytelling in anime

>>154144309
>Just adapt Apocrypha already
>adapting the worst entry in the franchise

well it's happening anyway so I guess I'll have to suck it up.

>>154144608
It felt jarringly fanservice-y, to say the least.

>>154144633
>>154144633
God forbid they faithfully retell an original story that they're fucking adapting to screen, eh?

How would you propose to make F/SN workable without all of the purple-prose and other bullshit? How in fuck would you convey all of Nasu's convoluted horseshit adequately?

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Truthfully if I were in charge Id kneck myself. There is not a single thing in this entire fucking franchise that is not completely and utterly retarded.

>>154144827
>How in fuck would you convey all of Nasu's convoluted horseshit adequately?
You don't. Just cut and simplify the bullshit.

>>154143585

dolphins

>>154144969
>Just cut and simplify the bullshit
>Just
That sure is some "compelling storytelling" you've got there.

>>154143585
Make RIN PLEASES OLD MEN FOR MONEY canon.

>>154143585
Remove Shirou, make Saber's master Sakura and make Rider's master Shinji using worms or some shit.

>>154143585
Not being an edgy secondary would help.

>>154144471
>5) Make it more intense and "realistic", like Zero (i.e. make it feel like the characters are actually in a life-or-death fight and get rid of the highschool crap)

Everytime I read this argument I don't get if you guys are trolling or completely missed the whole point of fsn, and why it's supposed to be a fake war featuring kids and random people due to the mess the adults did.

>>154145218
You're misunderstanding anon's argument, I would like to assume. In UBW's case, alot of the "bullshit" that needs to be cut has little to do with Shirou's character. It's not the story that was told, but how they told it. They were too concerned with sticking to the VN as closely as possible. They instead should have asked "How can this be shown in a way that is as engaging and captivating as possible?" Shirou is an interesting character, and the grailwar is an interesting concept. Work with that. Focus on that. Everything else can be reworked to improve on the "porn VN for middle schoolers" shortcomings. Why do we need to see the exact story retold? Make it better. Make it an event to watch. Make it new.

Nobody ever wants to rewatch UBW.

>>154145344
Thanks for pointing that out.

>>154145344
>it's supposed to be a fake war featuring kids and random people due to the mess the adults did.

I mean, okay, fine. But you have to at least admit that is was written this way explicitly to justify including elements that appeal to a younger demographic. It wasn't a coincidence. Just more of Nasu's "creative writing" to tie loose ends together that are primarily motivated by commercialism. Typical of the franchise, and transparent to people who aren't fanboys. That kind of thing can be changed without taking the meaning out of the story. And, again, changing it would make a better anime.

>>154145304
See above. You've got no legs to stand on as a FSN fan, accusing secondary cancerfags like myself of being "edgy." The VN is edgy as all hell. What makes Zero and FSN different is not the degree of edginess, that is for damn sure. Shirou and Kiritsugu are the same basic character. One is just done better than the other.

>>154145376
>They were too concerned with sticking to the VN as closely as possible.
Pretty much. It's one of the few gripes I have with the anime. The staff had too much respect for the source material. It's not like Nasu's writing was amazing in the first place.

>>154145411
See
>>154145497

I wish there was a term for this kind of writing. I see it alot in anime. Just because a convenient circumstance is justified in the plot does not mean its commercial motivations are rendered non existent. Shounen sells more than seinen. That's what's going on here. Nasu and Takeuchi have said a million times they had to make sacrifices in the VN so it would sell to teenagers. But now that the franchise is so much bigger, and the fanbase probably somewhat older, what is the reason they can't now go back and redo some of that? It is the perfect opportunity.

It's just laziness. It's a lack of artistic drive. Nasu isn't the same man he used to be. He's rich and fat.

cookingpriest already here?
>muh monologues and 2.5 hours 51 episode

>>154144471
>GCI shit
90% of what you call CGI shit is hand draw

>>154145528
>The staff had too much respect for the source material.

Tsh. So typical of Japanese, to be that way. Not that I can criticize them too harshly, but their respect ("reverence" is maybe a better word) here is misguided, and probably plagued by the typical fear of losing money by changing the formula and taking chances. What they need to start more concerning themselves with is producing quality, intelligent, creative, and engaging content. I mean, that's alot more work, that's alot harder, than just sticking to the formula verbatim. They played it safe, and called it respect. It's just fear, which, again, I can't blame them for too harshly. Loosing money is nothing to fuck with. That's your bread and butter.

We need to fix the global economy and dismantle the banking cartels so the Japanese can afford to make better anime.

>>154145376
I understood it perfectly. Unfortunately, a lot of what made the F/SN VN good, especially with regards to fleshing out character motivation (which F/SN sucks without) was relegated to internal/expository dialogue. Adapting the big (some would say bloated) ideas represented in any meaningful way visually would be very, very difficult to do. F/SN is about Shirou, and without his motivations fleshed out to the extent they are in the VN, he's just a plain old shit-tier MC.

I actually agree with you that F/SN UBW would have benefited from a darker tone and changes to the story, but that would be completely untenable. What you're wanting isn't UBW at all, but perhaps an original Fate series. Just say so, and we're golden. Or, you could wait for Heaven's Feel and see how that turns out.

>>154145558
Nasu has squandered the TM universe completely. Fate was a fucking mistake.

>>154145580
The animation was up to UFO's standard for the most part. However, there was a handful of shots that had blatant, glaring CGI thrown in. It looked fucking terrible, and almost felt like a "fuck you we don't give a shit" from the studio, compared to the majority of the quality.

>>154145689
>Adapting the big (some would say bloated) ideas represented in any meaningful way visually would be very, very difficult to do

They did it just fine in Zero

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>>154145690
Agreed. The fight scenes were pissweak compared to Fate/Zero's also. Ufotable's starting to lose their touch for sure.

>>154145717
Because Zero was a light-novel series, with multiple protagonists. Nasu had nothing to do with writing it, also.

>>154145690
That's the studio's digital team doing their own thing. Their art direction was somewhat misguided at times, that semi-photorealistic look simply isn't a good way to go about it.

>>154145759
If anything UBW's action animation blows F/Z's out of the water. Ufo's top action animators went all-out in UBW and the studio also had a great freelance animator showing up on the regular.

>>154145780
>That's because Zero was written better

That is exactly my point, good gentlesir

>>154145497
> But you have to at least admit that is was written this way explicitly to justify including elements that appeal to a younger demographic
What is this supposed to be? A critic? Because it means nothing.
Alright, I'll bait. Let's say school setting is just for the sake of waifus, then we can change all the characters and introduce new ones, 'cause that wouldn't change the plot right?
What you all ask though is to make the war realer, which would be writing a new story, and it's completely unrelated to the crappy setting you are talking about at the moment.
And as a side note, criticizing a work only because of its setting, and without thinking why it's that way is dumb and denotes a very narrow mind.

>The VN is edgy as all hell
Except it's not, but you're a secondary so no wonder you don't know that.
You edgefags prefer zero, which was written specifically for people who know fsn, just because muh adults and muh real war, when it's the same shit as its sequel in the end.

>>154145808
Can you give some examples? Now that you mention it, I suppose that is very true. I can't think of any action sequences in Zero that would compare to Cu vs Archer or Saber vs Berserker. Maybe Assassin's infiltration of the Tohsaka manion? Maybe?

However, when watching Zero vs UBW, you would tend not to notice the lesser effort put into the action animation, because in general the story itself, and the characters, are so much more engaging. Story, story, story. Gil and Kirei. Rider and Waver. Saber and Kiritsugu. UBW has nothing that even comes close.

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>>154143585
SAKURA

>>154145880
Parts of both the Saber vs Diarmuid fights had some nice animation, and so did Saber unleashing Excalibur on Caster's monster. Even still, the animators who contributed the best scenes in Zero went on to do even better work in UBW.

I did find Zero's story to be better though.

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>>154145850
>Except it's not

Come on. This is just fanboy delusion.

>Rider's M scene with Shirou
>Illya almost rapes Shirou, and probably originally did but Nasu pulled it
>Shirou rapes Rin

This is just off the top of my head, and I'm intentionally ignoring the highschool shounen tropes

>>154145937
>probably originally did but Nasu pulled it
pretty sure this is confirmed in a tiger dojo. they had a design for the outfit illya would wear in the h-scene and everything.

>>154145937
>This is just fanboy delusion.
And yours is a groundless statement.
Zero is much more edgier than stay night.
Do I have to list all of them, the way you did?
Also how are shounen tropes edgy if I may ask? Ignoring the fact that zero itself is full of them and it's just a glorified chuuni.

>>154144067
>>154143634
Manchilds BTFO.

Thanks God that Sakura was there to save Shirou.

>>154145850
>Because it means nothing.
Cognitive dissonance
>Alright, I'll bait
I'll say
>What you all ask though is to make the war realer, which would be writing a new story
God forbid
>criticizing a work only because of its setting, and without thinking why it's that way denotes a very narrow mind.
This is peculiar, because you're accusing others of doing exactly what you are doing. You're the one who is refusing to consider the possibility of improvements because of nostalgia goggles. Your mentality is exactly why they stuck to the VN verbatim. It's consumers like you who hold the industry back and stifle creativity.

>just because muh adults and muh real war, when it's the same shit as its sequel in the end.
Again, cognitive dissonance. UBW and Zero, while they have many thematic similarities, are very different works in many ways. They were written by different people with very different styles and skills.

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>>154145979
Alright, I respectfully give up. I'm surprised to find myself somewhat stunned that you exist. You are more /a/ than me. For the sake of the board I will let this rest here and will not challenge your opinions further. In the future, please try to be less upset by the fact that newfags and secondaries like myself feel this way when comparing Zero and UBW/FSN. Because while it might not appear so to you, but to many people my opinions about the comparison will seem extremely self evident and obvious.

>>154145690
>>154145784
Ufo digital team is still best one. And they get better and better

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Change Saber for Prototype Saber.

Make the heroine in Fate route Illya.

Remove Saberface.

Remove genderswap.

>>154146207
They're talented alright, but they need to blend their digital work better with the 2D animation rather than having it stick out like a sore thumb. This kind of approach does not age well at all.

>>154146225
>Remove genderswap.
It's litteraly change nothing.

>>154146107
Come on, at least answer the only legit question I asked: how would making the war real not change the subject, supposed that you actually know what stay night is about.
In the end you just spouted buzzwords without giving a proper answer.

>This is peculiar, because you're accusing others of doing exactly what you are doing. You're the one who is refusing to consider the possibility of improvements because of nostalgia goggles. Your mentality is exactly why they stuck to the VN verbatim. It's consumers like you who hold the industry back and stifle creativity.

When did I do that? I just said saying something sucks because of its school setting is narrow-minded, which is, in fact, true. No nostalgia involved, but gratz for the deep and sophisticated words you used I suppose?

> They were written by different people with very different styles and skills.

Except they worked on it together, and both zero and night are chuunishit.

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>>154146042
>It's consumers like you who hold the industry back and stifle creativity
Oh shut the fuck up you drama queen. As I've asked previously many times in this thread, how would you make changes to the story tenable while retaining the core of the cast and their characteristics, as well as solving the problem of conveying the long-winded ideas from the VN into suitable visual representations? THAT is the core fucking problem, and it will not go away just because you add some death and gore. The story would still be a heaping pile of shit because Shirou himself, who the story revolves around, would be a heaping pile of shit.

Like I also said previously, if you'd just come out and call it a Fate original series, fine. But an UBW adaptation is what the fans asked for, and it's what they got. If you want more Zero, tough shit.

>>154146107
He's right, you know. Both F/SN AND Zero are Chuuni-tier shit. They just happen to be very, very good chuuni-tier shit.

>>154146227
The only instances that I can recall, not counting vehicles because Japs can't do cars at all well apparently, Ufotable producing wonky/bad CGI are from the F/SN UBW series.

>>154146282
>both zero and night are chuunishit.
Chuuni need schoolboys.

>>154146316
Go learn what chuuni novels are before talking.

>>154146326
Oh wow. Tell me more.

>>154146316
Not at all. Zero's just a really, really good battle shounen desu.

>>154146346
>battle shounen

Zero is Seinen

>>154146042
>muh cognitive dissonance
inigomontoya.exe
Don't you have a sales thread to bait people with your socially acceptable anime in?

>>154146336
Powerlevels is a sufficient reason to call said series chuuni.

>>154146316
Chuunibyou are schoolboys
Literally anything in the urban fantasy genre can appeal to chuunibyou

Is this the shit opinion thread?

>>154146361
Zero is a light novel, it doesn't fall into any manga demographics

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Why don't they just use guns like that lad from Zero?

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>>154146369
>socially acceptable

I just know what kinds of things I like, and I'm keenly aware of it when things are not that.

Off the top of my head, in the last three or four years of having anime/mango as a hobby, there's only been a few that I have, for the most part, thoroughly enjoyed. Truth be told, I almost dropped and deleted Zero on episode 10: "Rin's Big Adventure."

>>154146396
It's the "that one retard from ANN tries to desperately recycle the same 'Fate/Zero is a masterpiece and UBW simply cannot compete because it sexualizes teenagers' bait over and over" thread

>>154146437
It sexualizes children, too. Don't forget desu senpai

>>154146394
>>154146372
You can call all fantasy and sci-fi as chuuni. This is pretty weird usage of chuuni. term

>>154146452
So does Zero, though :^)

is this poster from a real anime? if so what is it called??Thanks in advance,...

>>154146483
Baku Ane Otouto Shibocchau zo

>>154146417
because how would they get guns?

@154146483
(You)

>>154146396
No, it's a "secondaries think they can compare Zero and SN without knowing anything about SN" thread.

Basically every Fate thread ever on /a/

>>154146417
How are these kids supposed to get guns in japan?

>>154146417
You can't get guns in Japan so easy. Kirei has guns tho. MP5 as I remember.

>>154146526
>without knowing anything about SN

I read the VN, for crying out loud.

>>154146549
>>154146530
>>154146509
silkroad
You can also make gun tbqh every child in African can make AK47

>>154146606
>for crying out loud.
overreacting is not mature thing

>>154144377
Came here to post this

>>154146634
I would have said "for crying in a bucket," but I think that's too archaic to be understood. I've only heard my grandmother use that phrase.

Not an argument btw

I find it funny that Nasu made Zero into a parallel world now that doesn't necessarily lead to FSN.

>>154146633
There is no so "serious" masters in F/SN war. Except pretentious caster master who 100% had gun and Bazett with Illya. Illya and Zoken don't need guns

>>154146657
Argument for what? There is literally no scenes where you can crying in a bucket. Well maybe sex scenes, but F/HA sex scenes translated by The Hero are much better.

>>154146606
No one still thinks Zero is superior after reading the VN.

And I say this as someone who viscerally loves Zero.

>>154146752
>No one still thinks Zero is superior after reading the VN.

I do. The VN was terribly boring and uninteresting with the exception of a few scenes.

>>154144186
This.
The series needs its proper order in anime form for plebs like me to care about it.

>>154143585
maybe some better action like naruto or blech

>>154146752
I do. Zero was a lot more adept at certain things I'm just more partial to, like having a broad range of protagonists/perspectives. There was a lot more tension also, and the pacing was pretty much spot-on.

>>154146775
>>154146790
I am sorry, that case of shit taste is terminal.

It's not the worst out there though, at least you're not that faggot who thinks Apocrypa is the best entry in the series.

>>154143585
Every time Shirou projects something, he slowly becomes daintier and more feminine.
Whenever he goes into UBW the change is a bit quicker.
By the end of his fight with Gil, he looks like Kuro.

>>154146800
Why you think your taste is better?

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>>154144186
This.

Fate route anime by Ufotable with original story by Urobuchi as a sequel to Zero when?

WHEN GOD DAMN IT

Add more cooking scenes. Have recipes before the commercial break like in Sentai Senshi Sunred.

>>154146831
Zero was an introduction. A masterfully crafted introduction, don't get me wrong, but its purpose is just to create a prelude to the clash of ideals that takes place in the VN itself.

It's not about Shirou surpassing Kiritsugu, because both are great characters in their own right. It's more about Shirou grasping the perspective Kiritsugu wasn't able to grasp.

The VN is the intended answer to the question asked by Zero. It is possible to follow the ideal of becoming an hero of justice, but not without understanding its limitations.

>>154146888
Zero is not a prelude at all, it came out after stay night and it's just a nice gift for fans.

>>154146904
It did come later, but in the continuity, it comes before SN.

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>>154146800
You could have at least addressed some of the things I said.

Why do you think F/SN is better?

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>not a single mention of the god awful soundtrack

>>154146968
It's a parallel world according to Nasu now.

>>154146888
Yeah that's fine and good, but what made F/SN's storytelling better? Why were the characters better than the ones portrayed in Zero?

Actually this thread makes me worried about F/SF. I remember about things happened in F/Z and now in F/SF we have twice as much characters, but no any big fights happening in 3 volumes. And knowing Narita the worst thing can happens - Durarara 2.0 with 20+ volumes of nothing for years

>>154146999
The music certainly didn't stand out to me like it did in Zero, but I don't remember it being "god awful"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBynYIxwWBs

link vaguely related

>>154147013
Fuck Nasu

>>154147036
Not the original soundtrack equals shit. Every iconic scene lost it's feeling.

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>>154146999
Very, very true. Kaijura was fucking made for Ufo productions, they should have just kept her on.

I think Zero in general was the perfect confluence of the BLOOM BULLSHIT Ufo style, Urobutcher's melodrama and Kaijura's Elder God-tier ambiance. Heaven's Feel will probably retain a similar tone, but UBW was destined to fall short from the start (unless they'd managed to get Kenji Kawai back, the 2006 F/SN OST is Elder-God tier as fuck too).

>>154146999
>god awful soundtrack
>F/SN
>excalibur
>blazing ashes 2
>overcome the myth
>Illya
>jorney
>will
>etc etc
fuck off

>>154147070
>Not the original soundtrack equals shit.

Is this English? Lol, I was just taking advantage of an opportunity to link a Zero-related, non-OST piece that I really like. WAVE's F/Z stuff is great

>>154147088
Awful compared to what Kajiura could've done with the original songs.

Playing This Illusion in just one episode was also like spitting in the face of the fans.

>>154147088
Oh yea! I remember now! I DID listen to the UBW soundtrack after watching the series. lol I'd completely forgotten because Anon is at least kind of right: it's forgettable. Zero's music was much better.

>>154147131
Jesus, really? You don't think you're being a little dramatic there?

>>154146992
>>154147016

was this you reading what I posted a bit later and then sending another message?

In any case, I will respond in a single post.

>Storytelling
I have to admit that it's a matter of taste. Personally I liked both methods, and I think an HGW can benefit from multiple perspectives. However minimal, SN did possess these multiple perspectives, mostly through 'Interludes'. Giving an equal share of attention to all characters involved suits better works where the conflict is more important than the individual beliefs of the characters.

>Characters
This is what I am talking about, mostly. Focusing the story on one character and exploring his motivations helped develop Shirou, while Kerry remains monolithic for most of the story. In the end, it's like the other anon said. This war is a mistake, and the children are fighting something that the adults caused to begin with. Most characters in Stay Night are victims, people who have to deal with a cumbersome inheritance. While one might care for Zero characters, by the end of Stay Night it appears evident how horrible most of them were to being with. Seeing them struggle with a conflict that they did not want but cannot avoid, we also get to witness their maturation, something that doesn't really happen in Zero. (Unless you maintain that a gradual descent into madness is maturation).

Sound Drama Zizz ost was awesome
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7sSGmfeajI
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQPGyT0TUQ
>can find classic Moon Cradle version on youtube

>>154147131
>Playing This Illusion in just one episode was also like spitting in the face of the fans.
Pure bait. This scene was like tidal wave
>>154147139
>Anon is at least kind of right: it's forgettable. Zero's music was much better.
Oh wow I don're remember Zero OST! It's forgettable amrite?

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>remake all of it with a single route in mind
>keep Berserker vs Gil
>keep Shirou vs Archer
>have Archer actually fight Gil and actually die after (instead of that stupid "lol i escaped")
>keep the finale as per main route, Shirou vs Kirei and Saber vs Gil

Heaven's Feel strays too far from the other two to really influence much. The 3 routes are good and all but Nasu should go back and rewrite it with into an ultimate storyline, because they all have some good shit while lacking in other.

>>154147186
>Most characters in Stay Night are victims, people who have to deal with a cumbersome inheritance. While one might care for Zero characters, by the end of Stay Night it appears evident how horrible most of them were to being with. Seeing them struggle with a conflict that they did not want but cannot avoid, we also get to witness their maturation

Interpreting the VNs from this angle is comical in many ways, I hate to say it.

>>154147273
>Interpreting the VNs from this angle is comical in many ways

If you have Schadenfreude, perhaps.

>>154147270
You can't make ultimate storyline. Different themes

>>154147292
I just don't have your tolerance or open mindedness for tropes. For example, Shirou beating Gil in UBW shits all over the character, the plot

>>154147301
You can easily fit Shirou's struggle and Saber's struggle into one, anon. Most of the main route was empty as fuck, and UBW wasn't exactly jam-packed either. Not to mention they both are kinda similar, one wanting to fix her old fuckups, one stubbornly fighting against himself who is telling him he will make a lot of fuckups.

Saber and Shirou's story could easily be intertwined.

>>154147364
>Shirou beating Gil in UBW shits all over the character, the plot
here we go again

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Have Shirou beat all the girls in the Holy Grailwar, add them to his harem so they don't have to fight and make him wish that alarm clocks don't exist

>>154147364
>Shirou beating Gil in UBW shits all over the character, the plot
I am not addressing this one again, but you got yourself a new (You), which I guess is what you were after from the beginning.

>>154143585
Use a better director for the job.

>>154143585
Scrap everything and take Rin/Archer ito a stand alone adventure.

>>154147384
>>154147431
Lol, I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way.

>Shirou beating Gil in UBW

Probably the worst part of UBW, but not unexpected, after all it was Shirou's storyline and the MC has to beat the bad guy. Doesn't make it any less shounen cliché shit, but what can you do.

Well, that or Shirou's stubbornness and Archer accepting it.
>"I will become a hero and save everybody"
>"You can't save everybody"
>"Yes I can I will become a hero"
>"No I literally am the future you and I'm telling you what will happen"
>"No I will become a hero and save everyone"
>rinse and repeat 10 times
>"Ok you will be a hero I am wrong even though I have seen the future"

The path where this doesn't happen is the best for good reason.

>>154147495
You should have kept your message deleted, so people would have forgotten about a secondary spouting his nonsensical opinion.

>>154147532
>triggered

There's no need to be like that. Either recite the argument again or take it in peace.

>>154147581
>le epic triggered xDDD

>>>/reddit/

>>154147581
>triggered

>>154147605
>>154147596


LUL

>>154147596
>>154147605
Triggered is definitively a 4chan meme. What is zero, now? Ten years old? It's not going to be 2005 forever. Actually try to convince the newbies, or let it go

>>154147495
what is multiverse, no one can see the future anon...

Why are VNfags so defensive? Kept hearing their bullshit and whining about secondaries so I went and played the VN, all 3 routes.

On top of the retarded writing (so much for muh inner monologues, they're fucking shit and drag on) and terrible sex scenes, there really was no great philosophy behind it that was cut from the anime, it was the same shit said in more lines with more inane and nonsensical reasoning. VNfags are just defensive and will call you a secondary to try and shield from criticism, but the VN really doesn't make anything better at all, just longer.

>It's another Zero secondaries think they know best about Fate franchise episode

>>154147714
So was Pepe, it doesn't change the fact that only Redditors and /pol/tards still use it.

I mean, not like there's a difference between Reddit and /pol/.

@154147792
(You)

>>154147714
>Triggered is definitively a 4chan meme
like new epic pepe posting and other degradation?

>>154147787
Doesn't apply to Shirou's perspective though, he has no idea about that. As far as he is concerned, someone is straight up yelling his future into his face and he's too stubborn to understand he's wrong.

Not to mention, the exact same actions should lead to the exact same outcome, so Shirou would have ended up on the same path, multiverse or no (though Archer's appearance probably would alter it quite a bit).

>>154147799
Zero was the best part of the Fate franchise.

The Zero LN, not the anime.

>>154147849
>Doesn't apply to Shirou's perspective though, he has no idea about that. As far as he is concerned, someone is straight up yelling his future into his face and he's too stubborn to understand he's wrong.
Nice fanfiction.

>>154147925
So Shirou knew about the structure of the universe and timelines at that point in the story?

>>154147954
He knows how heroic spirits work

>>154147968
>avoids the question

>>154147954
That's not the point. The other anon was a little bit more indirect, but I am going to give it to you straight: if you don't understand what happens at the end of the discussion between Archer and Shirou, and after UBW as a whole, you have serious reading comprehension problems.

>>154147996
Do you know how heroic spirits work? Then you know about multiverse too.

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>>154143634
>This is what becomes of such a man

WEW
E
W

>>154148032
>still trying to force that meme
It was dead on arrival. Nobody's falling for it.

>>154148009
>u just dont get it

>>154148024
Don't remember Shirou being told in much detail about the multiverses and timelines. In either case, it doesn't apply, because the same path leads to the same end. If Shirou keeps walking the same path as Archer, he will end up as Archer, cause and effect. There may be other timelines where he changes that because he doesn't follow in Archer's footsteps, but in this one he was going to go right down that path. He'd have ended up the same as Archer, blacked and hanged.

>>154148032
Why is he black? The Grail ain't that bad.

>>154148068
>>u just dont get it

You literally don't, and it's hilarious because this gets explained every other UBW thread. If you don't want to read the VN, at the very least have the decency of lurking before posting.

>>154148073
Turns out that Shirou was a black Albino.

>>154148068
> it doesn't apply, because the same path leads to the same end
Not really, plus Archer is coming from a completely different grail war so it's a different path from the very beginning, even if your fan-theory was true.

Kill shirou

Combine add missing scenes from Deen.

>>154146888
>the VN is the intended answer to the question asked by Zero

No, you're fucking wrong. The VN is a story answering the question it raised itself. Zero is just to tell us about the 4th holy grail war so we actually know what happened. Because zero cam out fucking AFTER the VN.

What you're saying is like saying the Star Wars movies about Luke are to show the consequences of the actions of Anakin. But they're fucking not. The prequels are to show us how shit got to be this way.

God you're fucking retarded

>>154143585
Add flying cars and every time a sword went flying a "pew" sound was added.

>>154143585
Make the masters fight for a reason beyond "lol i just want to win and check out how cool the grail looks"
Having a war over a wish granting device only to have most of th cast have no wishes is beyond retarded

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I just want a Red man stand alone series

>>154150415
>secondary

Did you even finish zero? I already know you haven't read the VN. But please actually watch/read the media before discussing it

>>154144067
Not sure what exactly you meant, but ultimately the point wasn't about Archer making Shirou realize that becoming superhero is a terrible choice, but Shirou making Archer realize he's strayed away from his ideals and that they are the only thing worth trying to pursue even if you ultimately achieve nothing, despite Shirou going through character developement it's Archer whose ideals changes the most.

>>154143585
How to fix it? By completing it ofcourse. Add the missing elements from the other routes, and make a complete fucking anime. It is as simple as that.

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>>154148219
HE'S A BLACK ALBINO?

>>154143585
Shirou versus Archer.

No shitty orchestral crap.

We're going balls to the wall full EMIYA.

>>154143585
Less dolphin, more jackhammer. You don't need to show it blatantly, but just say it happened and move on.

>>154144599
>Cull unnecessary scenes from HF, too.

But anon, they're doing that. It's why HF is only going to be a single movie-length entry in the franchise.

>>154143585
Remove sex scenes.

>>154143585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXx56WqqJw
Make Saber a man.

>>154147476
That would be having dark without light.

>>154144352
>The director made some mistakes,

?

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>>154144540
How about how the original FSN anime handled the introduction?

>>154146775
Which ones?

>>154146968
Not him, but the first volume of Fate/Zero is older than all routes except Fate route. Nasu wanted to write about the fourth war and realized he still had to finish the VN. He was hospitalized and still working on Fate route. That's when he contacted Gen Urobutchi. His idea was for him to publish Fate/Zero before FSN but Butcher told him that it would better to wait a few years. They finished the story on parallel with Fate route. It seems like they just held up to do the final version and publish it only after Fate got popular.

>Changes made to the fight with Archer completely alter the tone and meaning of the scene - while the beginning alterations are fucking amazing the fact that Shirou then proceeds to fight him on near-even footing while barely sustaining any damage completely ruins the original idea of the fight being one where Shirou is beaten fucking senseless but manages to win purely by reminding Archer of the beauty of his ideals and by showing his conviction
>Fight against Gilgamesh is completely fucking retarded, its no longer Shirou desperately closing the gap between them to leverage Gilgamesh's lacking swordsmanship skills to press his one weak spot while using UBW for covering fire, but is instead Shirou dodging, blocking, and spinning his way through the now far-superior GoB by the skin of his teeth for three minutes before ending the battle in a single exchange - it makes no sense for him to be so strong
>while fucking hilarious the powerboost Rin and Luvia got in their wrestling match at the end contradicts canon and makes it seem absurd that Rin was such a non-factor in any fight besides the one with Caster
>while quite pretty and fluid most of the fights lack any real sense of 'weight' besides a few instances of Lancer jumping and leaving a crater and Berserker fucking up shit passively by merely running - beyond those, however, the majority of the Servant's didn't seem nearly as powerful as they actually are and the choreography gave no sense of them possessing any notable degree of skill or experience, merely super speed and the ability to pull of some rather unbelievable contortioning
>In some parts it slows to a crawl with 30 minute dialogues and expositions scenes and barely anything happening, in other parts important events and character development is breezed through with no attention paid to them. Whole Shirou-Rin arc is basically nonexistent for example.

>>154152977
>Shirou has nearly every single one of his important character-monologues about his ideals and past removed, his banter with Rin is severely limited, and the removal of the death scenes + alterations made to the Gilgamesh, Kuzuki, and Archer fights removes any sense of danger being posed towards him
>Instead he's a standard oblivious MC with no idea Rin is into him until near the end of the show, has mild PTSD and survivor's guilt instead of being barely human in any meaningful sense mentally, and appears to have ten layers of plot armour
>His romance with Rin is fucking ruined by this as well as the inclusion of the Realta Nua scene which makes it feel like it has no proper climax/consumation before the epilogue - something that could have been fixed with a tasteful fade to black
>le invisible air can kill berserker xD isn't Saber great - takeuchi
>Kuzuki's fighting style is never explained properly and as a result his fight with Saber and then getting reamed by Shirou makes no fucking sense

>>154147036
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uua5SPPTwdo

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>>154143585
Turn Shirou into a nigger.

>>154143585
Remove saber

>>154152977
>>154153009
Good posts

>>154153048
Wow that sucks. I sure don't want to listen to that. However it's only one track, and could be used effectively during points in a show, etc.

>>154153048
That's from the drama CD, not the anime. That said, the drama CD has some pretty nice tracks, since it's by the same composer as Saya no Uta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3bX_zwcDm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7RJWmBI2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdwl0HZPGM

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>>154143585
More snake, less worm.

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>>154158923
But snake likes worm.

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>>154143585
Remove Wormslut, remove jackhammer, give Illya a proper route, more Gae Bolg.

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>>154143585
Have Rin summon Gil.
Proceed to have 24 episodes of them messing shit up.

>>154152918
really? Nasu gives a completely different account of getting Urobuchi onboard in the afterword of book 1.

>>154150564
The point is Shiro realized exactly how fake his ideals were, but decided not to give them up anyway.

>>154158923

I like Rider, but why exactly would they have less of Sakura, one of TM's most popular characters, in her own route?

I mean, i know people delude themselves into thinking she isn't popular, but come on now, that would be stupid. Nasu is going to give Sakura and Rider movie original great scenes, and there is nothing the haters can do about it.

>>154158923
There wasn't nearly enough Asa-nee