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To those who understand spoken moon decently: Are the jap actors

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To those who understand spoken moon decently: Are the jap actors as terrible as the English dub ones usually are?

One of the main reasons I watch with original voices is because it's hard to take anything seriously with the English actors. Maybe I'll have that problem anyways if my jap gets good enough
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It depends, really.
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>>153545087
Depends on what you count as good, personally I prefer jap voice actors since the guys tend to have more midrange voices and most of the female voices are much less annoying. But it's personal opinion really
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>>153545087
No, normal japaness is nothing like what you see in anime, its horrible, i had to mute the volume when i watched japanese porn
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>>153545339
>normal japaness is nothing like what you see in anime
Well yeah, I know that. That's obvious even if you don't know any Japanese.
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No. Voice acting in japanese is genuinely good.
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Kind of. Whichever way you slice it, most anime is melodramatic as fuck. Even if it's good, it's still going to be hammy a lot of the time.
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>>153545087
For what it's worth, I'm an ESL who's studying Japanese, and English anime dubs sound like shit to me, especially the female voices.
In comparison Japanese voices, English voices in non-anime stuff and even my country's dubs sound much, much better.
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>>153545572
I hear you. I tried watching K-On! with somebody whose English skills weren't good enough for just subs, and so we turned on the English dub and it was horrifying. Ritsu is fine, Yui is tolerable, but the others, holy shit. If my cowatcher hadn't decided to drop it, I would have, and I love K-On!.
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Japan has established a separate anime style of speaking, English hasn't. It's like if you go watch a play and everyone is speaking in that weird half-british sounding accent, but everyone's fine with it because that's how plays are supposed to sound.
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>>153545087
Some are, yeah. Is funny when people say dubs sound forced, when the jap VA is teh definition of forced. Thing is, since over there VAing is an industry they tend to have better preparation for their work.

Thankfully, the new generations of 'merican dub actors seem more enthusiast about this shit than folks from the 90's who just wing it, I don't care much for them since I still won't watch dubbed anime, but since vidya companies still force dubs on us, at least it's reassuring to find out the dub isn't total dogshit. They still have ways to go when working with some character archetypes though, younger characters and genki girls are still out of their reach.

Going back to the jap dubs, is kinda funny when you hear an SS rank seiyuu totally wing his lines. Lately, the worst offender has been Koyasu Takehito, the man doesn't give a fuck anymore
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It is actually possible to hear bad Japanese voice acting.

If anybody has seen the anime for Full Moon o Sagashite, you know what I'm talking about
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At least Jap VAs don't put political bullshit into anime, unlike the English group that did Prison School apparently.
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>>153545907
Most people here are too young to have watched that. A recent example that even non-jp speakers can pick up on how BAD it was is that imouto character from that show with the pink hair teacher dude (Completely forgot its name, sorry).

They hired an idol for that role and the bitch was 90's english dubbed hentai ova levels of bad. She didn't even bother to act, she was just reading her lines. Remember that scene from the recent seiyuu anime with the newbie going over her head from getting a lead role and the seiyuu reading her lines awfully on purpouse to demonstrate she wasn't ready for it? That bad.
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I don't know whether this counts as forced or not, but despite not speaking Japanese I can kind of recognize certain voice 'archetypes'. Often I think two characters have the same voice actress, only to find out that they don't. Their voices just sound similar because they're doing the same 'archetype', or at least that's my theory. The voice archetypes are such things as
>The sultry, older woman voice
>The high pitched tsundere voice
>The oblivious shonen protagonist voice
>The yakuza voice (HORRRRRA, ARR SOUND SAME!)
>The ojou-sama voice
It's kind of weird when you think about it. Out of all countries in the world Japan probably treats their VA's the most as a big phenomenon (perhaps on par with live action actors), yet they all sound so incredibly similar. It's pretty rare for me to hear a truly unique voice (though that says nothing about the range of individual voice actors, which can be insane).

>>153545963
Oh? What did they put in the English dub then?
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>>153546086
Some stupid comment about gamergate.
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>>153546086
Not that guy but They made gamergate joke for the simulcast dub. They removed it for the dvd release though.

Regardless, it was kinda tasteless and so out there, Funi got backlash from both sides
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>>153545836
>Thankfully, the new generations of 'merican dub actors seem more enthusiast about this shit

Still a long way off. It's pretty amazing that FMA's dub was nearly 15 years ago and while that's set the bar for what it means to do the original script and audio service, it hasn't been pushed much further. The actors are the ones getting more passionate, but the most of writers, directors, and casting directors are still the same losers/cousin of one the localization executives they've always been. Good dubs still feel like once in a blue moon. They don't even need to match the original Japanese perfectly, but the audience should be able to watch the show in English without feeling like they missed out on a significant part of what made the show an immersive experience. Like someone already mentioned in this thread, women especially are really self conscious about the material in comparison to men. They don't really want to take things seriously even when the material is lighthearted. There's still a good pool of ladies to pick from, but finding new ones is a bitch.
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>>153545087
No, once you've heard what a bad jap VA sounds like you'll slap yourself for ever asking that question.
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Naturally, dubbing anime tends to bring more restrictions compared to video games and the like. Having to stick with someone else's dubiously translated script and trying to fit into the right lipflaps tends to cause issues with acting. Writing and casting characters with a voice in mind tends to make lines fit better.
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>>153546121
>>153546155
Thanks guys. I just looked it up on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEXurYaIHao
I know that "cringe" has become a buzzword as of late, but I can't think of a better term to describe my sentiments right now. It's incredibly forced and utterly unrelated to the context. And in a way, this makes the biggest mistake you can ever make in any kind of entertainment medium: insulting the target audience.
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>>153546086
I don't know about you but the ones you hear these days don't sound similar to me at all.
I mean maybe they might not be particularly unique but I've never confused one with another.
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I'm so used to Japanese because it's what I grew up with. When I do transition from the Japanese dubbing to English I feel out of my comfort zone.
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>>153546160
some recent examples of dubs done right are the God Eater games and The legend of Heroes games.

I was extremely worried about Nana's voice in God Eater because usually, that's the kind of character that sound terribly in a dub, I was surprised when I finally heard her english voice, it wasn't quite on the jap level but still very good for what it was (and could have been). Legend of Heroes flops with characters like Millium who is a genki loli and sounds awful in english, but other characters like Fie, Vita, Sara and Towa sound really good, some I even liked them more than the originals.

Again, this mostly affects me on the videogame side, but it's still nice to hear better performances rather than the usual instant-undub crap from the ps2 era
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>>153545087
Ask yourself this:
>Are English voice actors for English-language cartoons as terrible as English anime dub voice actors?

There's your answer. Anime dubs sound like shit because they're terribly low budget productions that utilize the cheapest "talent" they can find. Just because they sound shit doesn't mean English voice actors in general are terrible, it's just that the good ones work on domestic cartoons and not on dubs of foreign imports for a niche audience.

And to Japan, anime is "domestic cartoons"
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>>153546341
The video game side of things has been getting a lot more care since the dedicated audience is much more likely to actually want English options and will feel scorned when it's left out.

Anime on the other hand is still struggling. Actually that's not really the right word, it's coasting, it's lazy. Funimation is the only big English localizer right now and it's content to just skirt by with small profit they get out of each dub. They never try to expand or get out of their comfort zone or try to find a dedicated fan group to take advantage of in the US/Canada. I'm half-sure the process of localization is some money laundering scheme. The opportunity to get anime to air on networks other than Adult Swim once a week past midnight is there but to seize it would require effort and they're making enough as is. Just throw it on the website for streaming, whatever.
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>>153545087
Can't say I've had much of a problem with that. There are of course bad VAs and bad performances there too, but not enough that it bothers me. I don't think it's something you should worry about. Subs have plenty of mistakes and inaccuracies too, so the pros will still outweigh the cons once you learn it. You also get to better experience manga, LNs and VNs (if you care about that).

>>153545339
The difference between "anime" Japanese and "normal" Japanese is heavily exaggerated. It's the same fucking language. Sounds more likely that you suffered through your average JAV actress' awful voice.
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>>153545087
I'm not a moon speaker, but I think attitude has a lot to do with Japanese coming across as far more natural. Or maybe its cultural. I just can't hold a suspension of disbelief when I hear English actresses, sometimes even actors, not deliver their lines with the cynicism and bitchiness I've come to expect out of the medium.
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I don't like US dubs because everyone has that awful American accent and every time they pronounce a name or location it's cringe.
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>>153546678

dubs with honorifics are even worse
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>>153546155
What I don't get is who they were trying to appeal to? Do they think SJW types watch anime like Prison School? I mean, how fucking out of touch can you get.
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>>153546622
With anime, the kind of people that are going to want dubs in the first place are so used to dubs being bad at this point it's not going to deter them, while those that don't want dubs just watch the original. There's no massive potential audience sitting there going "I don't want to watch bad dubs and I don't want to watch in Japanese, so I never actually watch any anime... but if the dubs were SLIGHTLY less bad, I'd buy twenty DVDs a month."

The dubbers have no reason to waste money on improving, it's not going to make them more money at this point.
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>>153546678
Yeah, this is actually a problem. Americans can't pronounce japanese for shit. It is really painful when they try to use jap words. There was a game where one of the characters kept pronouncing Omotesando in a horrible manner, and recently I watched a clip form the maid dragon dub with them pronouncing Kamui as Kamooey.
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>>153546949
>then they make fun of how English names are pronounced in Japanese
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The main issue with so many English dubs, especially earlier ones from the 80s and 90s, is the actors were given no real direction and just handed a script, so the lines felt very stiff and there was often little or no coordination between actors so they couldn't "interact" with each other in a realistic way cause many times they never even met the other cast members. Whereas in Japan, it's common for the entire voice cast to be in the same room while lines are being done, they can respond to each other more naturally. That and the cast is vetted by the director and original author if it's an adapted work, so the Japanese cast is usually more fitting to the characters since the English dub will just use whoever they have on hand.

You'll hear people say stuff like the Japanese voices are all super exaggerated, but that's true of the writing and the situations they're acting in as well. They act to suit the material. And really, nothing will give you a better appreciation of Japanese voice acting than watching comedies. There's not really a better genre for showing off the range, timing, and skill that a seiyuu has.
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>>153546949
>Americans can't pronounce japanese for shit
Except for the 1 or 2 actors who can, but that just makes them stand out really awkwardly because there's almost no quality control in the American dubbing scene. A good example of this is in YYH's dub every character pronounces Yusuke's family name wrong. Except for the principle. You'd think somebody would have noticed the discrepancy, but they probably just didn't care.
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>>153546873
Your model neatly explains the situation of a complacent business satisfied to make what money they can by as little work as possible, not an aggressive business model motivated to grow their market and increase their profits. Consumers don't often know they want a product that's not an option to them until it's there.
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Original voice actors are better simply by the virtue of being personally directed by the creative staff to make the performance match their vision.

Dubs are in almost every case, simple interpretations.
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>>153545087
I don't speak Japanese but think of it this way. Do voices in animated movies made in America usually sound as bad as Dubbed anime? No. Not really, and thats because it's produced here and the voice work is considered part of the production, thus its taken seriously and given a proper budget. Dubbing is done by a licensing company who's only part in production of the product is localization. They have less money to shell out for voice work than an actual production company, thus the "talent" that does anime dubbing isn't as good. It doesn't help that the people who dub anime, and are actually talented tend to "move up" to other industries over time.

So yes, Japanese anime voice actors are better because they're actually mainstream skilled voice actors, while in America you get voice actors known for doing dub work, rather than on domestic production.
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>>153546355
Lol I should've read the thread before I bothered posting this >>153547731
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>>153547731
>Troy Baker is a shockingly good voice actor doing dub work
>Gets promoted to AAA video games after a few years
>Matt Mercer becomes the new Troy Baker for dubs
>Quickly goes on to AAA video games
FUCK
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>>153547859
Where do you think Steve Blum has been recently? Its either vidya or Warner Bros DC animated movies.
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>>153547859
>>153547731
>>153547960
Dubs were actually getting into a pretty good spot for a few years before VAs figured out you could move up to video games. Its gotten back to laughably bad recently.
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>>153547960
THAT'S what happened to him? Shit, now that I think about it, same with Crispy Freeman.
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>>153546949
Now, I haven't seen the clip myself, but I don't think your text is showing me exactly what's wrong with the pronunciation. Kah-moo-ee should be correct, did they say kaa (like cat) moo ee? Or did they emphasize the wrong syllable?
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>>153548177
I mean, he also does Tom on revived Toonami.
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>>153546249
t. Gamergate creep
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>>153547859
>be good actor
>do shitty, low-paid work
>get job offers for better paid and better respected roles
>take them and leave the low paid shit behind
Why does this surprise you?
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>>153548015
I can't speak Spanish so it's all hearsay, but I heard that in the 80s and 90s Mexico had really good (Disney) cartoon dubs because due to some economic crisis the (good) live action actors couldn't find a job.

I guess dubbing really is at the bottom of the ladder.
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>>153548274
So when Hollywood inevitably crashes we'll enter a golden age of anime dubbing. Interesting.
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>>153548328
You'd think with the endless Marvel movies, sequels and reboots, that would have happened years ago.
Hopefully the next couple of Star Wars movies will at least damage Hollywood or kill of Star Wars for good.
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>>153548274
Theatrical Disney dubs have always been an exception, since it's extremely important to Disney that their movies are taken seriously world wide, and that's not going to happen if the dubs are shit, since a lot of adults are going to watch those dubs with their kids.

Disney's TV shows, on the other hand, get shitty dubs because kids watch them alone, so shitty acting won't harm the company's reputation there.
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There is more skill, professionalism and history and everything else that describes what the VA (and idol) industry in japan is.

It basically automatically sounds better because there's more effort.
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>>153546249
kys
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>>153545087

Native Russian speaker with hot opinions:

I've listened to both English and Japanese on anime back when I had a shaky grasp of English. Long story short, English dubs suck balls most of the time. This isn't because it's in English mind you. It's because in the vast bulk of cases, the voices are flat out wrong:

>child voices (loli, a kid, whatever) are usually some old woman trying to sound high pitched
>dub voices never seem to carry the emotions the original JP voices convey
>dub voices often completely miss the mark on a character's traits (JP voice sounds a specific way that defines the character, dub voice doesn't do this at all)
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>>153548369
Are you kidding me? That kind of stuff happens during bad economic times for a reason: it shits money with minimal investment. Everyone loves bashing Michael Bay, but there's a reason why everyone loves to hate him: he keeps making movies. And unlike someone like Uwe Boll (who has some kind of weird German tax trick where he actually earns money when his movies flop), Michael Bay makes truckloads of cash. That means there are a lot of people who go see his movies purely because of brand power.
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>>153545907
Simoun also has some super terrible voice acting
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>>153548369
Star Wars is already dead bruh. We've been watching a lovecraftian death spiral happen since the prequels with only tartakovsky's clone wars breathing life into it's rotting corpse for a short fleeting moment.
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>>153545087
The problem with English voice actors isn't their voice, it's because they sound like Weeaboos.
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>>153548406
90's Disney television stuff was actually top notch stuff.
It's really really good.

I also have a certain fondness for the over the top hammy anime performances and writing.
It's exactly what people would expect from anime back then.
Now it's all talented measured stuff and a deep attempt at being mature and failed english majors and word nazi's desperately trying to be taken serial while FAILING to be entertaining in a way that would make people enjoy the medium.
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>>153547139
The isolated voice actor thing still happens pretty frequently today. There was a decent interview some gaming news site ran a couple months ago with Robbie Daymond/Prompto from FF15 that I couldn't find again where he echos your sentiment. You can definitely hear the effect it has in parts but I think they did a decent job considering the conditions.
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>>153548592
Talking about international dubs of Disney stuff, anon, not the English-language originals.
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>>153547139
Fist of the North Star series dub was fantastically bad.
For example, there's one generic villager that looks vaguely like captain Kirk so the guy voicing him just did a Shatner impression.
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I think even ABRIDGED dubs on YouTube are better than the official English-language dubs.
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>>153549059
I wouldn't say better but mostly at the same tier
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>>153549059
Youtubers have the advantage of being able to edit their material. Look at for example DailyTubeShow. He takes a single scene (or series of shots) that lasts maybe 15 seconds and stretches it out for two minutes to make his own sketch.

On the other hand, a professional dub needs to both match all the visuals of the original (including the mouth movements) and at the same time convey the same message in a different language. That's incredibly different, especially with certain cliché's that are difficult to translate (things like ORAORAORAORA or MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA, or certain puns).
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>>153549059
Is Abridging still a thing besides DBZA? That survived because it was the only one that had quality control going on. By season 2 they stopped using all the bad voice actors and stopped taking writing suggestions from every single contributor involved. It was originally the mega crossover of all the abridgers but they realized most of them aren't that funny, so now a smaller group of them handle the writing. They had like 10,000 subscribers by the end of season 1 and now they have over two million.

I think what makes so many people like DBZA, besides the brand recognition, is that it really does feel like DBZ with a more comedic twist rather than outright parody. Only one character per season is radically reinterpreted, everyone else has characterization just as strong as the original.
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>>153549747
You're probably right there. That's the strength of TFS. Yu-Gi-Oh is sort of peetering along, but I think it fell to a very distant second place because it only updates once ever century. TFS updates irregularly, but they usually float somewhere around once a month, once every two months at worst. This not only rewards the patience of the fanbase earlier, but youtube algorithms also optimalizes your videos being recommended if you upload regularly and get a lot of views per video. Keep a tight schedule and you'll snowball into success usually. This is why Let's Plays do so well on youtube: they're increadibly low-budget and easy to make so the Let's Players can usually update on a daily basis at fixed times.
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>>153549747
Abridging was just one of those Youtube fads where a bunch of people see that something (YGOA) is popular and do their own variant of it instead of coming up with some original concept themselves.

Same reason all these angry NES game reviewers popped up after AVGN got big. They've all disappeared now too.
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>>153549928
It's almost as if "charming, original and passionate people" and "people that start doing something because it's already popular and comes with a built-in audience" aren't groups with a whole lot of overlap.
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you wanna see bad jap voice acting watch hentai. better than the dub but still shit
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>>153550166
Hentai anime has the best acting in the entire worldwide porn industry.
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>>153549747
>>153549865
There's still plenty of gems if you bother looking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23HJvXxY-WI
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unlike in america being an anime voice actor is actually something to be sought after in japan. in america only delusional weaboos who are usually shit anyway actually aim to become anime dubbers. all modern dubs are done by budget shitters
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>>153547859
Mercer ain't above doing "anime" games, yet. He was in Cold Steel and Fire Emblem not long ago.
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>>153545087
Some are terrible, many are very good, though.
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>>153545339
>No, normal japaness is nothing like what you see in anime, its horrible, i had to mute the volume when i watched japanese porn
This. The constant nervous laughter and spoken hesitation noises are so fucking annoying. Scripted anime Japanese is the superior language.
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>>153545836
>Koyasu Takehito
His voice is perfect for villains, fuck you.
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>>153545836
>Lately, the worst offender has been Koyasu Takehito
What has he done? Anyway, give the man a break. Everybody can have a bad day.
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>>153548458
Translating something will never really convey the 100% original meaning ,especially when there's stuff like play on words and such that only make sense in JP. Dubs always take liberties with translations too, which is in its own way fine cause you simply can't translate some shit unless you speak moon or watch shitloads of shows, which regular dub viewers don't
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>>153548952
Kek
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>>153552910
>reading old European translations of American comics that tried to localize shit like Halloween and the 4th of July into something that made sense for kids that had never heard of either
Good times.
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>>153552629
>It's litterally impossible to find someone who teaches japanimation dialect
>Japanese teachers look at you like a retard if you do it but not even japanese people speak in the overly proper manner they speak in.
>Japanese people act litterally insulted if you speak "like a cartoon character" while they randomly use english words just because they sound cool.
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>>153553104
>but not even japanese people speak in the overly proper manner they speak in
Teaching Japanese reminds me of those old and busted English language textbooks. Japanese conservatism at work yet again.
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>>153549747
Making full blown abridged series requires lots of work to actually draw attention. If you look at the animation breakdowns, you get to see all the redrawn and added lip flaps, recreations, visual edits, animation error corrections, and generally way more effort than they used to require.
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>>153553180
All languages are like that. You'll be looked at like a retard if you go to Germany and talk the way you learned in German class too. Nobody talks the textbook version of their language anywhere.
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>>153553180
>old and busted
That's not a nice thing to say about everyone's favorite English teacher!
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>>153552629
You have that in every language to varying degrees, though. It's not very noticeable when you're used to a language, but once you read an unaltered transcript of a conversation you often end up wondering how a person can fit so many ellipses, filler sounds and slang words into so few sentences
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>>153553333
This is what bugs me when taking foreign language classes. They almost never teach how the average person would speak, mainly due to time constraints. Doesn't mean that the teachers don't put in any effort. My German and Japanese teachers were pretty based.
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>>153553180
Best part? The kind of fucking losers who teach japanese and spent most of their lives in english courses are the ones who're strangling the fucking life out of subs and now dubs.

Remember the war over "nakama" being translated? Here's what happened. Those people went on a full on fagtastic bitchfest over nakama being accepted in common language/it being untranslated.
They honestly did not want this japanese loan word besmirching the english language or some shit.
Want to know what they did? They strangled OP's potential as an IP in the fucking crib.
Nakama is it's thing.
It's like trying to translate Kamehawave into Laser.

But that's okay!
Nakama is now translated to..what was it? Friend? Crewmate? REALLY REALLY FUCKING AWESOME!!
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>>153553333
Not true, in my experience.
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>>153553575
Should be
>comrade
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>>153553608
It's true. I'm Norwegian and went to college at the University of North Dakota, which offers Norwegian classes. The language taught in the textbooks they used was some hilariously awkward shit you'd never be taken seriously if you used.
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>>153545087
No, they are pretty good. However, the kind of voice acting they do is closer to how people would pronounce things in theatre rather than in film (or real life for that matter).
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>>153553104
Japanese people use English when they talk literally all the time. Everything from professional jargon to just a casual conversation is littered with English loan words.

To answer OPs question, Japanese seiyuu are much better for a variety of reasons.
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>>153545087
What are you on about? You can appreciate most of voice acting without knowing the language.
I don't really feel like my reception of Anglo movies changed after I learned English.
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>>153553864
It's some meme EOPs like pushing.
>>
You have to keep in mind that Jap VA industry is extremely cutthroat, and you have to be at the top to get into any anime role with any significance.
While the English anime dub industry all employ b-tier VAs, while also dealing with issues such as filling screen time with unnecessary words to match the characters mouth flaps or vice versa.
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>>153545659
>I tried watching K-On! with somebody whose English skills weren't good enough for just subs, and so we turned on the English dub and it was horrifying.
It's actually harder to understand spoken language.
t. ESL
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>>153545087
Like most things. It's strictly a case by case basis. Some japanese actors aren't all that good but some anime puts a LOT of emphasis on good voicework. Those are the one's where I can tell, despite not speaking moon, how much the character's voice brings to the show. There's certain characters that I can't listen to in any other language because the performance CANNOT live up to it.
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>>153549747
Off the top of my head there's
DBZA
Yugioh Abridged
SAO Abridged
Pokemon Bridged
The latter gets by by completely changing the plot and even showing episodes out of order for the sake of comedy.

That said I'd argue that SAO abridged is perhaps one of the best ones I've watched (which admittedly isn't saying much). I'd put it only BARELY behind DBZA. It's rare that an abridged series can still make me feel for the characters.
>>
>>153548238
There's no good syllable for amateurs to emphasize, Japanese doesn't have a dynamic accent. It's best to just not emphasize, unless you can into pitch accent (note height).
>>
>>153553555
Well, as a starting point learning how to properly speak the language is the best way to go. Learning slang and such stuff will come naturally later on. This is why my French teacher told me that the absolute best way to learn France (after mastering the basics) is spending three months in France. If you fully immerse yourself in the language and are forced to use it both actively and passively every single day, you can pick up a language in that timespan (and you'll probably learn the difference between formal and informal language).

Though to be fair, French is a European language. Maybe you can't pick up a language like Japanese that fast (you sure as hell won't pick up Kanji that quickly).
>>
>>153554242
The Ka.
>>
English cartoon should be dubbed by english VA
Spanish cartoons should be dubbed by Spanish VA
French cartoons should be dubbed by French VA
Japanese cartoons should be dubbed by japanese VA
Korean cartoons should be dubbed by korean VA

... and i think it's the same for every shows, movies or whatever. Translating something is difficult, and it's even more when you have to struggle with the speed of the original speech while still trying to keep the original meaning of the line

I don't think it's the VA's fault, it's just that translating something is awfully hard. You lost so much. When creators make japanese anime, it's meant to be dubbed by an japanese VA, so it'll always be better in japanese. It's like replacing a color in a painting

And yes, it's possible to make some very good dubbed, but those are all exceptions, how many good dubb there are ? How many bad ones ?.
>>
>>153548245
He's been the voice of TOM for 16 years, ever since TOM 2. Hell, Steve was the driving force behind getting Toonami revived in the first place.
>>
>>153553555
Immersion is usually one of those things that teacher leave up to the student. My mom in question is learning spanish so she watches films in spanish, Listens to the radio in spanish and traveled to spanish speaking countries
>>
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So what you want about dubs but sometimes I find that they surpass the original. Chris Ayers as Frieza blew my mind in how perfect the casting was. He couldn't have possibly been better. His delivery honored both Nakao and Linda Young simultaneously while still adding his own flair and, in my opinion, surpassing both. I was so impressed that I bothered to typed all this up and posted it on an anonymous chinese cartoon forum.
>>
>>153554936
>sometimes

Sounds more like "this one specific instance that I personally really like". Not saying youre wrong or anything, but its less 'sometimes' and more like 'once in a generation' does the dub surpass the original.
>>
>>153546160
>It's pretty amazing that FMA's dub was nearly 15 years ago and while that's set the bar for what it means to do the original script and audio service,
There's a lot of people who do not like Vic's Ed and there has been criticisms of the other members of the cast as well barring Austin's Al who is the only one universally agreed to be great. The Brotherhood dub also gets a lot of flak with the recasting and new voices.
>>
>>153548406
>Theatrical Disney dubs have always been an exception, since it's extremely important to Disney that their movies are taken seriously world wide

Technical quality of the dub doesn't protect against mis-casting and script dialogue tinkering unfortunately (see Phil Hartman in Kiki's Delivery Service).
>>
>>153547859
Hopefully Bryce pattenbrook can fuck off to video games after ruining all of the most popular anime of the last 5 years with his awful voice.
>>
If the characters aren't voiced by Crispin Freeman, troy baker, Steve blum, or Liam O'Brien then they aren't worth watching.

I'm not sure about female voice actors though. The woman who did Faye in cowboy bebop was good, also whoever voiced The Major.
>>
>>153557263
Kiki is not a Disney movie, it's a Miyazaki movie. He was talking about non-English dubs of Disney films.
>>
>>153545087
>Are the jap actors as terrible as the English dub ones usually are?
It depends in both cases just as there's bad English dubs there's poorly done Japanese voice overs I will say this that you'll seldom find an English voice over phoning it in and usually the worst examples of dubs are largely due to bad ADR direction than the actor being bad meanwhile some of the most highly prolific VAs are infamously known for phoning shit in largely because they are type-cast so people don't realize that they're not putting their all into their performances, a frequent example is Hiroshi Kamiya WHO SOUNDS THE SAME IN EVERYTHING HE DOES,he's not a bad actor but his range is very limited and never does anything beyond his normal roles anymore.
>>
>>153557097
There is no such thing as a dub that doesn't get flak. It comes with doing performances cannot and should not be judged by their own merits. Cowboy Bebop is seen as one of the best dubs you can find but it still has terrible casting for Jet. Fact is that the performances in both FMA dub's are good across the board even if the resonance of some voices aren't everyone's liking.
>>
>>153557380
Jesus Christ man, learn how to write.
>>
>>153545087
Japanese VAs are just more professional because there's more competition and because anime dubbing is some actual business. American VAs for anime are shit because they're just weaboos in a very niche industry with no competition. America doesn't get as many good VAs because a lot of the media they watched is produced in English, mainstream animated movies get actual actors as VAs, and cartoon VAs are probably not very interested in doing anime.

At least that's what I reckon.
>>
>>153557414
>There is no such thing as a dub that doesn't get flak.
Golden Boy

> Cowboy Bebop is seen as one of the best dubs you can find but it still has terrible casting for Jet.
You are a rarity in itself, I've never seen anyone talk shit about Beau's performance as Jet definitely a lot of people who hate Melissa's Ed but he sold that performance especially in his solo episodes.
> Fact is that the performances in both FMA dub's are good across the board even if the resonance of some voices aren't everyone's liking.
They are definitely weak performances in that dub (Mustang, WRATH, Envy, etc) but it hits the right spot where it counts hence why its praised to high heavens.
>>
At it's best, it's theatric rather than cinematic
At it's worst it's EHHH MAJI game-show level garbage

Most dub acting is just plain awful in every aspect though
>>
>>153557493
Not him but I was able to read his post just fine. Perhaps you are retarded.
>>
>>153557608
Now hol up hol up hol up

When you say Wrath, you don't mean Bradley, you mean 03 Wrath. Bradley's dub voice is some of the best voice casting I've ever heard.
>>
>>153557608
>a lot of people who hate Melissa's Ed
Who, and why? I am quite curious. I found her performance to be thoroughly convincing - in that it took a minute of active thought for me to consciously recognize that it was a dub of the original.
>>
>>153557702
What other Wrath would I be talking about than the 03 version? If I was talking about Bradley I would have just said his name.
>Bradley's dub voice is some of the best voice casting I've ever heard.
Hyperbole much?
>>153557771
To be fair that's a very hard character to voice without sounding forced or annoying and a lot of people thought her performance was the weakest of the main cast...which is still pretty good by all accounts.
>>
>>153557350
>Crispin Freeman
I feel that a fair amount of weight was removed from Alucard by his performance. That's not to say that he was wholly unconvincing, but that he couldn't carry the danger that Nakata could. Freeman's performance had almost a feeling of being tethered back.

I wonder: how do you feel about the dubbed Anderson?
>>
>>153557265
He was the most flip-floppy part of the Attack on Titan dub. Sometimes he really sold it but other times he hammed it up super hard without being able to really sell it
>>
>>153548458
>child voices (loli, a kid, whatever) are usually some old woman trying to sound high pitched
Yui Horie is in her 40's now and nobody has a problem with her voicing lolis.
>>
>>153557938
Yeah but women that do dubs can't pull it off.
>>
>>153554271
>>153548238
No, and the "accent" if you do it would go in the "mu"- kaMUinormally, in tokyo's standar pronunciation. He also wrote they said "kamooey" not "ka-moo-ee"
>>
>>153558039
Which is funny, because actually decent actors can pull off the snotty little brat voice just fine in Disney flicks.
>>
Obligatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRylVSfxyw
>>
>>153557674
I can choke down a McDonald's burger, but that doesn't make it not shit, ESLfag.
>>
>>153558121
Actually decent actors generally have better paying shit to do with their time then dub anime.
>>
>>153558181
>the keikaku bit
god damn it
>>
>>153558181
Wtf I like hollywood movies now
>>
>>153558181
Bane´s VA is great
>>
>>153545339
>i had to mute the volume when i watched japanese porn
You don't must the volume when watching any porn? Talking in porn is cringy in almost any language that isn't Czech.
>>
>>153545339
When I watch normal Japanese porn, the girl usually makes noises like she's in pain and seems like she's having a bad time which makes it hard for me to enjoy it.

When I watch femdom Japanese porn, the guy always makes so much noise with shouting and moaning that it's too distracting and I can't enjoy it.
>>
>>153547139
happens in other mediums too

I remember reading an interview where the guy that voiced a villain in Fallout 4 didn't even know who he was voicing, or anything about the story at all

his job was just to literally read lines out loud
>>
>>153545339
>watching JAVs

Stop this meme please.
>>
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>>153545087
>One of the main reasons I watch with original voices...
Is because youre a weeb
>>
>>153546072
Recent one I can remember that ticked me off was this annoying maid voice from Asterisk War.
>>
>>153545087
No

There ARE terrible ones. But the english dub is usually rushed one-take garbage where the voice actor may not even understand the scene he's voicing.
>>
>>153559741
Yea she was terrible, like she took a mouthful of helium before every line.
>>
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>>153545087
To English VAs' credit, they have been improving as of late, and in some cases, they do a better job than the Japanese ones, especially if the characters/setting or foreign. And when you get something like pic related, it's probably best to leave swearing up a storm to the Americans.
>>
>>153560182
>they have been improving as of late,
>implying

They were better back in the 90s/early 2000s
>>
>>153546072
>>153559741
There's also many women in Shikabane Hime (IIRC voiced by aidorus who couldn't necessarily act), Takuto's childhood friend from Star Driver (who was actually voiced by some random fan who won a lottery), and the main girl from Mysterious Girlfriend X.
>>
>>153546849
You can thank the writer who is one of those liberal holier than thou types. He even defended it saying the girl is canonically a man-hater which is canonically wrong. Hoping he dropped translating and became a barista
>>
>>153560412
And of course doujin games voiced by amateurs. A certain boss in Blood-over- comes to mind.
>>
>>153546249
No, even worse: it's dated now.
>>
>>153560412
>the main girl from Mysterious Girlfriend X
She was a screen actor, this was her first (and I think only) anime role. She's a good actor, she just acted very differently from how anime VAs usually do, which was the entire intent behind the casting.
>>
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What I want to know is why the voice audio is so jarring compared to the background music/sound effects/etc. It doesnt mix well, it's better than those old chinese kung fu movies but it's still weird. You'd think they'd get better equipment or techniques or whatever i dont know
>>
>>153560433
To this day I will never understand what attracts left leaning SJW faggots to Japanese and Japan. This place isn't conducive to their bullshit at all, except maybe a libertarian view on personal hobbies and interests.
>>
>>153545907
Yes, you'd have to be autistic to not hear bad acting
>>
>>153557265
No, you fuckers get to keep him, I can at least watch the subbed version of whatever show he's in, I don't get an option when he's in my fucking games.
>>
>>153545087
It can be just as bad sometimes. It helps, that because you are unable to understand what is being said your brain isn't processing it as language, so even if it sounds fucking awful, you can't tell.
>>
>>153545572
Yeah, female english dub voices, especially as of late are really bad.
>>
>>153545087
you dont need to understand a language to know if theyre acting well, its about if the voice and speech fits the character and if they portray the right emotion at the correct time.
or are you telling me that if japanese people are speaking in a happy tone you cant understand the emotion they are trying to convey but you would believe an american saying "i am really happy right now" in monotone with a poker face just because he's speaking a language you understand?
i really dont get this fucking stupid argument.
>>
>>153560579
You should have seen the NISA translator/editor going on about how saying "Japs" was a racial slur because of some shit in WW2 less than 2% of their audience even knows or cares about.
>>
>>153549747
You're acting like their writing isn't bottom of the barrel garbage.

Like for real, even the old ass shit from nearly a decade ago was funnier, everything is "haha we're referencing sex :D" and "obscure reference!" humor now.
>>
>>153545087
>To those who understand spoken moon decently: Are the jap actors as terrible as the English dub ones usually are?
No. Rarely, sometimes a few. It goes from case to case.
>>
I only like dubs when names are mostly western. For example, Cowboy Bebop.
>>
>>153545087
Japanese dubbing is better in anime because the animators animate the dialogue to fit the spoken lines in the original version. Unlike the English dub, where the dubbing studio attempts to match the animation with their translation, which leads to awkward pauses, different wordings, or completely different dialogue altogether.

Online parodies put more effort than professional dubbing studios by actually editing the animation, so the video is modified to fit the translated lines instead of the other way around. The fact that dubbing studios haven't done this shows how lazy they are and how much English audience doesn't care.
>>
>>153552629
This, also the "hissing" sound they made is weird. " ano watashi wa ssssss anooo anata no koto ga sss daisuki desu"
>>
>>153560305
But that still doesn't erase the shitshow that was a majority of the past decade.
>>
>>153560689
I genuinely hate "professional" anime and game translators. I just can't fathom what drives people to translate media that they fundamentally dislike. Do they feel good when they "fix" a script they find offensive?
>>
>>153560816
>>Japanese dubbing is better in anime because the animators animate the dialogue to fit the spoken lines in the original version
Actually what I know of anime production tells me otherwise. Anime is the rare case of the voice acting being recorded after the animation is done for the most part, unlike basically any other for of animation.
>>
I always felt Gintama's VA always would just practice whatever role he was up for next on gintama since they don't care to seem about how gintoki sounds.
>>
>>153548458

What dubs do you watch, because as you stated, it depends on the actor/ess and the character. Take dubs done by Los Angeles studios. Try watching Please Teacher in both Japanese and English.
>>
>>153560926
>"fix" a script
Kind of like what Crunchyroll's editor/translator is doing now

Like has anyone told them they are NOT writers, comedians, or directors? They are not going to improve on what well known/experienced writers, directors, and editors worked on together. They have no sense for comedic timing or spacing and they don't understand what feeling the director wanted. So they just over saturate it with retardation like NISA does to Neptunia games and hope it catches among the retards.
>>
>>153561720
They're mad they're not authors so they rape scripts and then try to pass it off as creativity.
>>
>>153560949
It's not animated to fit the actual voicework, but it IS being animated to fit the script. Line length, pauses and shit like that is based on how someone would realistically read what the script has.
>>
>>153560949
They record the lines weeks in advance of the animation
>>
>>153561855
No, they don't. They often record to not-entirely-finished animation, but that's all. The animation is done to the script.
>>
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>>153545087
Like others say it depends.

There are some shows I prefer in English.

Shows like Great Teacher Onizuka and Golden Boy.

Onizuka because of Steven Jay Blum.

And Golden Boy because of Doug Smith.

Sometimes I can put up with shitty acting from side characters if the voice actor of the main character is a good fit IMO.
>>
>>153546072
I got you senpai, anime was Denpa Kyoushi
>>
>>153548469
Simoun's actually grew on me. Or maybe the actors just got better as the show went along.

One moment of bad Japanese voice acting that really stood out to me was in the Gundam G-reco short that came out before the show. The girl sounded so fucking bored while fighting it was incredible.
>>
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>>153546072
>>153562063
Whoa there faggots she had a different yet delicious voice I'd love to hear more of
>>
>>153545087
Dubs are shit 99% of the time. There are very few acceptable dubs, and none of them have been recent.
>>
>>153553575
Nakama should be translated to kyoudai with a TN note saying
>like in yakuza movies
>>
>>153559332
There was a bunch of controversy about the latest Fire Emblem game as well, with a girl saying in a live broadcast that she didn't know the name of the character she was playing, or in which game she would be in, I suppose because the localization staff doesn't trust voice actors to keep their mouths shut in America or something
>>
>>153546226
this is truth...
>>
>>153560677
Because acting culture is different from place to place moron.
>>
>>153560926
>Do they feel good when they "fix" a script they find offensive?
There was a guy from, if I remember correctly, nintendo treehouse, who almost literally tweeted this. Currently on my laptop, so I hope someone else can post them.
>>
>>153558121
Because Disney actually pays.
>>
>>153562651
Nintendo Treehouse is so bad Nintendo of Europe do their own English translations from sratch instead of using the one Nintendo of America already made.
>>
>>153557531
Bingo.
>>
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>>153562270
eh, ansatsu kyoushitsu wasn't too bad...
I'd give it 7.5/10 on dub. 9/10 on sub.(Couldn't raw dog that anime, I would safely guage my range at 10-20% of fluency.( basic conversation, understanding significantly more than I can say myself.)

I'm trying to avoid mt.stupid by mis-representing my own skills,
>>
>>153562822
or not* mis-representing my capabilities...
woopsie made a typo.
>>
>>153545836
I can't fucking stand Megami Ogata lately but I'm not sure if that's a reflection of her effort or just the casting.
>>
>>153562822
>>153562852
>ellipses
>reddit spacing
>liking dubs
you should lurk for 2 years before posting
>>
>>153554290

That's a pretty autistic view of dubs.
>>
>>153562933
Not really. Only plebs watch dubs.
>>
The real problem with english dubs is that they have some 30 something year old dyed hair dyke or some 40 year old nu-male playing a high schooler.
You notice how the only "good" dubs are those where the characters are older and it's actually believable.
Jap VAs are also able to manipulate their voices better, probably because they have at least basic singing ability from their training.
>>
>>153562928
Thank you for actually calling this out. Nice to see someone besides me giving newfags shit for this.
>>
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>>153562928
I've fucking been here since 2011.]
I have never been on reddit...
>>
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>>153563126
>>
>>153562995
Not all dub are bad and to think so it's pretty childlike.
Many Japanese dubs are top notch and high quality.
>>
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>>153563126
>>153563206
I see how it is just fucking ignore me then...
>>
>>153559741
That's how she always sounds. She is also tall as fuck which makes it even more surreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtcE5UA8MaI

>>153550277
Some of the hentai work Hiromi Igarashi did is unreasonably good, it's a bit unsettling.
>>
>>153563264
Pleb.
>>
>>153562651
Yeah, I remember that faggot. Makes me happy I just learned moon.
>>
>>153562995
>When creators make japanese anime, it's meant to be dubbed by an japanese VA
Who creates something is irrelevant to what language it's meant to be dubbed in. Yeah, most of the time creators intend for their creations to be dubbed in their native language but that isn't a requirement. Furthermore, saying that something is meant to be in one language so it must be better in that language is genuinely retarded.

In short, >>153562933 is right, that poster has an autistic view of dubs
>>
>>153563202

Am I a redditor if i just browse the porn or do I have to converse and actively engage with them to be a redditor? God, its stupid saying redditor.
>>
>>153547549
>>153546873

That's because once a person get hooked onto a series they go to subs to go ahead because they can't wait for dubs to reach a point they are interested in OR the network that ran the show cancelled the dub's airing.
>>
>>153563274
You should be lurking for 2 years instead of posting you retard.
>>
>>153563365
for what?

I said the dub was alright, never said I liked it...
>>
>>153545087

Western VAs by and large simply do not take their job as seriously as they do in Japan, and as a result are far worse at hitting the right spot as far as acting goes.
>>
>>153563348
That's pretty much the way things are in the current market environment. Problem being there's not an aggressive competitor out there willing to risk capital so to bring a better product to market, which is what has to happen to grow the market. This may entail establishing a business relationship with the producers such that your own production is preceding the domestic release, and your airing doesn't run too far behind the Japanese schedule. Which places a good deal of importance that you have a good read on the existing customer base to know what the audience will want to see.
>OR the network that ran the show cancelled the dub's airing
Risked capital with money to spare for a legal department.
>>
>>153546086
>It's kind of weird when you think about it. Out of all countries in the world Japan probably treats their VA's the most as a big phenomenon (perhaps on par with live action actors), yet they all sound so incredibly similar.

That's much more true now than it was in the past. The previous generation of actors were honestly much better. God actors still exist, but there's a higher frequency of weaker actors in the seiyu business now.
>>
>>153558860
The same dude who voices Bang Silver Fang and Hit.
>>
>>153545339
>japanese porn = normal japanese
>>
>>153546228
>trying to fit into the right lipflaps

Why? Why do they do this? Who cares?
>>
>>153563935
All other things being equal the more openings there are the lower the average skill level will be, that's a given for anything. If you cut the amount of anime and games being produced in half you'd only get (mostly) the upper half of the current talent pool.
>>
>>153563935
No they weren't. There's a huge talent pool it there right now. The seiyuu performances we have now are great.
>>
What's considered "good acting" is cultural, not universal.
>>
>>153562270
I'd argue the OPM dub was actually pretty damn great. Partly because there were some pretty decent Jokes via casting (ie. Bacteria man was voiced by Piccolo's VA, The Muscle Brother was voiced by Erin Jaeger's VA, Beastman was voiced by Leomon, etc.)

Plus, while they didn't play Saitama perfectly straight they got a very deadpan delivery and it worked wonders.
>>
>>153545087
Anime archetypes are pretty much linked to Japanese voice acting. Tsundere is based around very identifiable speech patterns and phrases. You can probably almost visualize what an "ara ara" character would look like. Some forms of humor in anime/manga only work right in Japanese, too.

English voice acting doesn't work for anime IMO. The thing about Japanese voice acting though is that for weeb shit it works great but it sounds awkward in other stuff, like Resident Evil 7. Just like with western voices not working well with anime, Japanese voice acting doesn't translate well into western archetypes.
>>
>>153565919
>but it sounds awkward in other stuff, like Resident Evil 7
It sounds awkward in RE7 because RE7 was written by an American/Canadian, not because of RE7's content.
>>
>>153566024
No, it sounds weird because the an old hick white guy or a young white male speaking in Japanese anime voices is jarring.
>>
>>153545087
Japanese VAs are actually paid and there's more than 10 A-Listers in the industry there. Most of them have theatre and/or music backgrounds, or some other form of acting to them. The job market is actually competitive and isn't exclusively reliant on whose dick you're willing to suck to get a decent gig so you can get known.

Most of the time, a material is vastly better in its original version than in a dubbed version, no matter the language. Less attention is given to dubs in general compared to original materials.
>>
>>153566773
>The job market is actually competitive and isn't exclusively reliant on whose dick you're willing to suck to get a decent gig so you can get known
But the nip voice actors literally have to suck dicks to get a job. Especially all those female idols trying to do seiyuu-shit for a slight boost to their reputation.
>>
>>153545087
>Are the jap actors as terrible as the English dub ones usually are?
Most of the time, no. Even the hammy ones are entertaining. Words like "senpai" come naturally and all that.

>>153567000
There really aren't that many so-called pillow seiyuu, 2ch loves to lie. And young female VAs become idols more often than the other way around.
>>
>>153563060

>>The real problem with english dubs is that they have some 30 something year old dyed hair dyke or some 40 year old nu-male playing a high schooler.

Not really. Try watching Please Teacher.
>>
>>153560511
So was Lordgenome from TTGL I think, but he had no problems. She was literally unable to act, not in the usual "emotionless girl" way, she was just horrible. There's no defending her.
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