Katen Kyōkotsu: Karamatsu Shinjū

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Bump for Shunsui

>>153287979

It was a cool bankai, one of my favorites.

Bleach was shit after 100 or so episodes. The entire series should have been condensed.

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It's ok.

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Bump for best Captain

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>>153287979
Haha, no

>Has to charge up to have the power to cut things
>Power made completely irrelevant as of Kenpachi's Shikai

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Shunsui was made the head captain after Yama's death because he was over all the best.

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>>153288129
But one could argue that in a fight to the death, a Bankai that kills you and your opponent is awful.

>>153287979
What happened to Bankai? At first it was sword related abilities such as energy waves, swird becoming petal blades, or even simple extend retract. Then it became make a wish abilities like nen. I mean there's even an ability that takes away something's "name." What a hack

>>153288275
Nothing happened.
With the exception of Urahara's, and I guess ZnT South every Bankai is simply an augmented form of it's shikai.

>>153287979
Shunsui's bankai is much more versatile than it has been shown to be. The Dans that he used against Lille were but one of the many he could use. So those 4 Dans comprise of one play (4 acts put together is equivalent to Kageoni or Takaoni i.e. one single game). The story that he narrated with that was the story of his Sister-in-law.

1st Dan: Wound Sharing. Shunsui's sister-in-law was a member of the Ise family, and shared her curse with the man she got married to i.e. Shunsui's brother. She caused him to be afflicted with the curse and had to endure the pain of losing her husband.

2nd Dan: Incurable disease. She left the Ise family vowing never to return, but she was forced to return. This is the cause of her shame. She was an Ise woman and the curse was her incurable disease. Though she thought she could dispel the curse by marrying outside the family, her husband died due to the curse.

3rd Dan: Drowning in the abyss. Her husband was afflicted with the disease and she knew he'd die. She had no other choice but to just see him die. This is similar to the abyss where both of them drown and they can do nothing but see the other die.

4th Dan: The execution. She was executed for giving away the family treasure. The 4th dan also executes the opponent one one clean stroke.

Given more time, Shunsui could've shown us another play, but after the execution, Lille revived surprisingly and ambushed Shunsui causing him a grievous injury unable to proceed further with his Bankai.

In chronological order it's something like this. The Ise curse that caused her husband to fall sick was the Wound sharing part. He died and she had to return to the Ise household causing her shame. The Ise curse was the incurable disease. She couldn't do anything but watch her husband die and she couldn't even do anything about her curse. This is the helplessness in the abyss. She gave away the Shinken Hakkyoken and was executed. This is the Itokiri Basami.

>>153287979
Best CC.

>>153287979
How do you figure its the worst? I'd argue its among the best, objectively.
The last stage makes your head fall off and there's nothing you can do about it.
Its not even a physical thing that can be blocked, since it worked on the intangible dude.
"Just kill him before he gets that far" is also not a very good strategy because the earlier stages will reflect all damage to him back to you.
>But it didn't even kill the guy he used it on
Well sure, it doesn't work on abominations that can survive decapitation but that's pretty much limited to Bach, his elites, Aizen, and maybe a scarce few others I've neglected. Any other captain, any Espada, any non-elite Stern Ritter is fucked against it - even with the high-level durability and healing that being with high reiatsu have, getting decapitated is pretty much guaranteed death.

>>153289360
It won't work on anyone who can simply reicrush it and those that can hard counter it. Ichibei, Yamamoto, Mayuri and Urahara among the Shinigami, Elites, Gremmy (probably) and Bach among the Sternritters and Aizen and Inoue (probably). These are the only people (off the top of my mind) who'd survive his Bankai.

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>>153289627
>>153289360

BUT
I'm pretty sure if it worked properly it would also kill him. Why would you use something that would end in your death too?

>>153289809
There is literally no information about how his Bankai works which is why I've created my own headcanon (pardon me) about how it works. I believe that the Act ends when one of them dies, so after the 4th act is done, Kyoraku wins. Also like >>153288867 said, I wanna believe that there are more Acts in his arsenal. Otherwise it is literally the worst Bankai making his Shikai more interesting. Again, sorry for headcanon.

>>153287979
Anyone know what's Kubo up to?
Will he have a new series, or just live for the rest of his life off the bleach money?

>>153287979
From a creative point of view, yes. Shunsui's final attack was just a fucking black line on a two-page spread with no background.

>>153289627
Sure a lot of those people could survive, but my point still stands that among the Bankai it's one of the best - a lot of them counter his Bankai by simply being more overpowered in general - in other words his Bankai doesn't ever fare any worse than anyone else's would
>Ichibei
His power is broken, he hard counters any captain because he can essentially take their zan away by erasing its name
>Yamamoto
His options are to roast Shunsui before he gets the chance to use it (which he can do to pretty much any Bankai user) or overpower it with sheer reiatsu, which is questionable - Shunsui himself has huge reiatsu and we don't know in much detail the requirements for reiatsu no-sells. At any rate Shunsui's reiatsu is higher than pretty much any other Bankai user so its not really relevant.
>Mayuri
I'd argue Shunsui's bankai can do enough damage to Mayuri to at least force him to go green-goo like Ishida did, while it might not kill him this is certainly a considerable disadvantage. Though if Mayuri had intel and prep time he could probably devise a ridiculous counter like stuffing all his organs inside his head.
>Urahara
He could probably reattach his head in time, though he'd need to have his Bankai already active.
>Elites
The various immortality-granting abilities of the elites equip them to deal with pretty much any Bankai.
>Gremmy
Similar to the elites, no Bankai should work on him, but I'd argue that since Shunsui's Bankai is pretty psychological and that's what brought Gremmy down in the end, he at least has a better chance than most Bankai users
>Bach
OP ability, essentially omnipotence, can (and DID) counter every single Bankai ("All Bankai are broken in the future")
>Aizen
Hogyoku immortality + evolution > any Bankai
>Inoue
I'd argue since she's human, she's too fragile to survive - she'd die of decapitation before being able to reject it, and her barriers wouldn't do any good since Shunsui's Bankai functions intangibly

Its pretty pointless to talk about best and worst in terms of Bankai alone; for example Yamamoto's bankai is without a doubt the most destructive, but Ichibei's shikai and bankai together can change reality. I don't think Shunsui's bankai is the most powerful but just because it failed to kill a God-tier opponent doesn't make it weak by any means.

>>153290465
I get the impression he was into drawing cool things, so maybe if someone came to him for a project that sounded interesting enough, he'd get the motivation to do some artwork.

But right now, I think he just wants to rest.

>>153287979
Can it beat Aizen?

>>153287979

>fucks up a god to the point that a VC noob swordswoman can beat it to pieces


Nope

>>153288056
>>153287979


>yfw shunsui and stark were so alike because they were both depressive as hell.

>>153290635
I also like to rest after I take a big shit.

>>153290486
I forgot to mention in my original post that I agree with you. The exceptions I mentioned are like the creme de la creme of Bleach. Extreme top tier. Shunsui's Bankai kills anyone except these hax characters which makes it objectively one of the strongest. Some of these characters like Yhwach and Ichibei can't be beat by anyone lower down the Power Level hierarchy.

>>153290885
shunsui is top tier. he just twats about too much. all that kubo spiel about 'oh yeah guiz the gotei underwent a change after yama died' was bullshit. they were fucking pussies.

>>153291037
I feel like he was hyped a lot to be let down by Kubo in the last fight.

>>153291115
kubo let us all down. he desperately needed a writer to help him out. after all the hype he gave us a wet fart

>>153287979
But that's not Ichigo's bankai.

>>153292866
>sword that can kill a God
>worst Bankai

I think what you meant is 'least inspired Bankai'.

>>153287979
Wolf bankai is objectively the worst. Literally the only thing it accomplishes is making him into a bigger target because he shares wounds with it, supposedly it hits harder than he would normally but it's a really shitty bankai that had no hope of ever keeping up with the steep power curve the series would take. I'm just offended that Kubo actually wrote it as being able to fight even with hollow-Tosen who was supposed to be stronger than a captain with exceptional speed, while Komamura's bankai is notably slow. But it didn't even matter.

>>153288190
We have no idea what it actually does, appart from that it somehow for some reason turns the combatants into spoopy skeletons.

>>153293098
>I never read past the timeskip

His Bankai got a massive power up in the final arc, which both negated its original weakness and made it virtually indestructible.

>>153287979
Worst bankai is ichigo's fathers

>>153293128
It melts flesh, its a play on the name of her Shikai (purify the flesh).

>>153293165
We only saw his Shikai though?

>>153292956
I prefer a useless bankai with a cool concept to 'it gets stronger and faster' t b h

>>153288275
>At first it was sword related abilities such as energy waves, swird becoming petal blades, or even simple extend retract
Those are all shikai you just described. The first bankai we see is Kurotsuchi's which is a massive slug-baby that emits a toxic miasma and uses retractable spikes, as opposed to his shikai which is just a sword that poisons whoever it cuts.

>>153293162
I did read past, I was clearly referring to his original one. Was it even clear what was different about his human-form bankai (other than having the coolest design ever)?

>>153293098
Wolfie was holding back against tousen since he didn't want to kill his buddy so speed isn't the problem.
He just looks slow and weak because he faced aizen.

Chad never does anything to effect the story
You can remove him and the story plays out the same
KUBO!

>>153293773
As expected of mexicans.

>>153293511
The same connection that causes Komamura to take damage from his Bankai makes it unkillable once he removes his heart.

>>153293773
He's actually the biggest jobber I've seen in any series ever. The only fights he EVER wins are against mooks right after he gets a powerup, which is then followed by immediately losing to an important opponent. He literally gets powerups just for the purpose of losing to and hyping up antagonists.

>>153294202
Being a jobber implies that he was ever hyped to be that strong to begin with, which he wasn't.

>>153294331
Kubo was definitely trying to make Chad look like he'd accomplish something each time. It's a result of poor writing, not lack of effort.

>>153287979
It was fine

I'm pissed we didn't see Jushiro's

>>153294431
Face it, he was barely VC tier even at his peak. If you hadn't noticed Kubo stopped trying to make him stronger after that because it'd be too convenient for a normal ass human to become Captain level in such a short span of time. Its not bad writing, its consistent writing.

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OP Here

Important question for you guys

Do you think Shunsui is bored? He has all this responsibility for the next hundreds of years. He doesn't have anyone from his generation left.
Old man is dead
Jushiro is dead
Retsu is dead

He is left with 2nd and 3rd generation wash-ups.

>>153295597
The age hes at now is probably how old Yamamoto was when he became the commander; in other words he still has plently of room for growth, same as the rest of the new Gotei.

>>153295407
>he was barely VC tier even at his peak
I agree though
>Its not bad writing, its consistent writing
You don't give a character big single-page triumphant panels and powerups and let him crush a weaker opponent to show off his powers unless you're trying to make said character seem impressive and powerful.

>>153295814
Again, context is key here. For Chad, beating a former Espada is a huge victory, but it by no means indicates that hes caught up to monsters like Shunsui or Nnoitra.

>>153289360
Doesn't it kill him too?

>>153295597
One could argue that the massive changes and reforms the Gotei and the Spirit World are undergoing would keep him distracted enough for a couple years, at least.

>>153295597
>He doesn't have anyone from his generation left.
That wouldn't bother Shunsui, because as we know he is a notorious pedophile

>>153296523
It didn't when he used it on X-axis, so I don't see why it would in any other case.

>>153287979
actually probably my favourite. didn't make any sense but fit shunsui really well.

>>153296949
Paraphrasing
>you stay clear of Kyoraku-taicho though. The man is a clearly a grabby old octopus to anyone with sense about them.

>>153296523
I thin that using the 3rd act for too long would kill him cause, y'know he is in the "abyss" together with the victim.

>>153296055
That really only begs one question from me, wouldn't he be the best possible candidate for an RPG game or Musou style sequel? You could even play the ending off as "Just a dream" or " and that's what happened during the nightly D&D campaign I had with the mod souls".
>y-you think that's an interesting concept right?
Or y'know make Chad an unlockable character in other games, somehow. A true monster on the battlefield as a visitor, a chump back home.

>>153298470
>this entire post

Okay.jpg

>>153298455
IIRC third act drains both Shunsui and his opponents reiatsu, therefore as long as the opponent dies before Shunsui, he won't also be killed.

>>153288129
Canon he has the limiter on the first time it is shown. He would have been stronger without the limiter with no release at all, which is retarded.

>>153298766
Limiter only affects VCs and Captains; Ikkaku was only a third seat.

So what happened to Urahara again

>>153300335
He survived. He congratulated Rukia and Renji on their marriage in We Do Knot Always Love You.

Why can't Orihime just undo the event of someone's existence?
Shouldn't she be able to be over powered as fuck.

>>153296949
He has already started putting the moves on C46's Nayura. Reforms my ass.

>>153300550
She gave birth to Kazui.

>>153299828
They said it was applied to seated positions as well, not just the top 2.

>>153301433
How does that have anything to do with what I said?

I wasn't here when Bleach ended, what was the /a/ reaction?

Were there rukiafag tears?

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>>153302060
It was really that big of a thing. Not like Naruto's ending in terms of thread spamming and flooding.

No one really expected much from the end of Bleach considering how far down hill it had gone over the years.

And yes.

>>153301853
She gave birth to Kazui and Kazui is OP as fuck. I think it was a yes by implication.

>>153302060

Not nearly as big as Naruto's ending in terms of amount of threads, but the shitflinging within the threads were comparable.

The tears weren't as plentiful as the Sakurafag tears, either. Still massive amounts of butthurt. Renjifags laughed their asses off.

>>153302221
I guess. But Orihime herself should still be insanely over powered.

Like, she could make a huge field, and teleport around by undoing the event of her movement.
Or, like I said, undo the event of someone being born.
Undoing events is crazy powerful.

>>153288482
Seriously was there even anything better than ZnT till the end?

>>153290486
>>153290885
I am still mad that they did not clear up who truly belonged to the original 13.
Also we never got the continuation of the turn back pendulum.

I also would have liked to know who really was stronger OMG or Ichibei.

>>153302394
Orihime's too soft to just snuff somebody out, but yeah, she could have some cool things with rejection if she put her mind to it.

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>>153301806
Incorrect.

>>153302394
Bleach isn't Jojo. Orihime's abilities may work because of event rejection, but she's still mostly confined to defense and healing, since she doesn't have the killing intent to use Tsubaki.

>>153305369
>she's still mostly confined to defense and healing
Says who? She could effect that ball thing Azian wanted her to undo the seal on it.

>she doesn't have the killing intent
Not having killing intent doesn't mean not having the power to kill.

>Tsubaki
She wouldn't need him. She could just undo the event of someone's lungs forming. Or, again, just undo someone being born.

>>153305483
>She could effect that ball thing Azian wanted her to undo the seal on it.

Still healing.

>Not having killing intent doesn't mean not having the power to kill.

They go hand in hand in this manga.

>She wouldn't need him. She could just undo the event of someone's lungs forming. Or, again, just undo someone being born.

That's not how Shun Shun Rikka works. Have you even read this manga?

>>153290486
You left out Ichigo's true bankai with its amazing power of being his original shikai.

>>153302060
>Were there rukiafag tears?

Yes.

Also tears from those of us who hoped for an ending that wasn't total shit.

>>153290233
That's way to fucking specific.
I think his bankai is more horrible then we give it credit for.
His shikai allows him to create little games that creates magical rules that overrulle reality as long as he's a part of them.
His bankai allows him to tell full stories that allows him to create not a few rules that alter things but completely supplant reality with his own story.
He the director/writer/teller of his story is also under the sway of this story.

His power is therefore technically only limited by the games he wants to play and story that is important to him or he wants to tell.
His power is that he's so good at talking and playing that he can alter reality with will.

There's a reason why he was not allowed to use his bankai. Imagine his power used to even a portion of it's true potential in the hands of Aizen.
Aizen only makes people believe what he wants.
He can actually make it happen.

>>153305660
How is what is equivalent to opening a door "healing"?

It that is still wrong.

And yes, I have read it. Her power is classified as undoing events. End of story. Just because she never uses it in every possible doesn't mean that's not what her power is.

>>153306103
Bullshit, that's author privileges
Bach ain't got shit on that, Bach is just normal omnipotent if Shunsui has that sort of power he can literally recton Bach's character and power retroactively because he now has meta powers.

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>>153288129
Hitsugaya has had his Bankai for presumably over a decade and it's still not mature. I'm assuming Ikkaku's isn't complete yet either. I mean, remember what Zabimaru looked like when Renji first unlocked his Bankai?

>>153306228
Yes, that's basically what he has. But there's a catch.
It can be overulled by greater riatsu and bach can see it coming/break his sword before it happens.

If he doesn't see that comming he can talk him out of killing/releasing the soul king and leave him as he once was.

>>153306138
>How is what is equivalent to opening a door "healing"?

Pretty sure he wanted Orihime to repair the Hougyoku to it's full potential; that would fall under her healing shield (or 'event rejection'). Its the entire reason Aizen was interested in her abilities.

>Just because she never uses it in every possible doesn't mean that's not what her power is.

Technically it's only one of her powers, and we never saw her use it to do anything but heal. You're letting your headcanon cloud your judgement.

>>153306319
>but there's a catch
There is no fucking catch. Author privileges literally makes him an in-universe Kubo. He can increase his own reiatsu to be more than everyone else's combined, and he can do so retroactively.

>>153306238
Ikkaku will never finish or evolve it. Mainly because it means he'll have to stop serving as Kenpachis soldier or die fighting him.

Realistically only about 3 people even have a hope of fighting him if he uses his bankai and becomes the ogre.

>>153306382
I could actually see Ikkaku someday becoming the next Kenpachi. It will never be canon, but fuck it, Bleahc is never coming back regardless.

>>153306324
No, Azian specifically said he wanted Orihime to undo the event of the Hougyoku getting sealed.

>>153306371
No, that holds way too much potential to be broken.
His power allows him to change reality but only as much as his fairly considerable amount of power allows.
That allows it to be broken but not just bullshit OP. But if he could do that then it should really be a catch involved.
Basically he could make himself strong enough to defeat Bach and undo his powers as long as he can create a "story" that justifies the use of such an ability.

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>Be Yamamda
>Have a broke ass Shikai that can heal wounds inflicted on people and deal it back 10x to the enemy.
>3rd Seat
>Never mastered bankai for some odd reason.
>Disappeared off the face of the earth like his brother.
>Didn't even become the Lieutenant or Captain of his own squad.

>>153288129
Poor Ikkaku. He only got to use it once and it was gone forever

>>153306560
>No, that holds way too much potential to be broken.
When you give someone reality warping powers that's what happens.

>Basically he could make himself strong enough to defeat Bach and undo his powers as long as he can create a "story" that justifies the use of such an ability.
He could simply make himself the Protagonist and make Bach the Antagonist and this the Final Battle. It's literally that simple.

>>153306519
Citation?

>>153306582
>Have a broke ass Shikai that can heal wounds inflicted on people and deal it back 10x to the enemy.

But his attack power and Reiatsu is such shit that his entire sword is wasted on him.

>>153306674
Weren't you JUST calling people out on not having read the manga?
Please chill on the irony.

>>153306606
Yhwach can literally undo his own death. You're overrating Shunsui, he couldn't even beat Lille.

>>153306857
If you can't source your claim then its proof you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>153306725
All he needed to do was stop being a faggot and apply himself like he did a few other times in order to get /fit/.

When fucking Rukia's brother shows up to curb stomp him he was still able to stand up and was ready to fight despite the fact he was going to get shit on harder than anyone. Like a Level 100 vs Level 0.

>>153306864
Because I don't think he has motherfucking author powers.
Author powers are literally metaphysical in nature, it's Featherine class.

>>153306892
You should just read the manga before trying to talk about it.

>>153306932
Sure, give him another 100 years and he might be able to hold his own, I suppose.

>>153306972
It's headcanon.

>>153307031
That's why I say it can't be true.

>>153306582
He was in both parts of the last arc.

>>153306973
You first. That you can't source your shit is proof you haven't read the manga.

>>153307153
Nope, it's proof that I shouldn't have to go back and sift through 1000s of pages to show something you should already know.

How do you not remember that it was even a plot point that Orihime was going to try and erase the Hougyoku's existence?

>>153307232
>Nope, it's proof that I shouldn't have to go back and sift through 1000s of pages to show something you should already know.

Try using Google.

>How do you not remember that it was even a plot point that Orihime was going to try and erase the Hougyoku's existence?

And she never did. Aizen wanted her to repair it for him but then it was revealed he was only using her as bait for Ichigo. For all we know he was just fucking with her.

>>153307232
>Orihime was going to try and erase the Hougyoku's existence?
Not that guy, but I remember that. Should be east to find with a google search, give me a couple of minutes.

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>>153307430
Found it, chapter 249.

>>153307572
see >>153307405

I haven't read the whole manga yet. Didn't Orihime do some really crazy stupid reality warping shit in the final boss fight?

Like, he undid some attack before it happened and saved Ichigo.

>>153307691
Not really. She blocked a few attacks from Yhwach but only before he actually fought seriously with his Shrift.

>>153287979
fucking faggot kubo didnt show us aizens bankai

>>153308084
Since when were you under the impression that he didn't?

>>153308084
Aizens shikai was broke as fuck. And he was already OP.

Why didn't he just kill everyone in the Soul Society in one night without their notice? Then busted in to kill the Royal Guards with his bankai after they realized "Oh shit all the shinigami are dead."

Why waste his entire time on the hok. When he was already so powerful? Not even old man flames could beat him if he was under Aizen's sword influence.

>>153306606
>When you give someone reality warping powers that's what happens.
Which is why well constructed limits is important.
Basically everyone in every story imaginable has infiinite potential to be broken if you just say so.

>>Basically he could make himself strong enough to defeat Bach and undo his powers as long as he can create a "story" that justifies the use of such an ability.
>He could simply make himself the Protagonist and make Bach the Antagonist and this the Final Battle. It's literally that simple.
Yes that's part of how his story works.
but he's not the protaganist of all of his stories he's the story teller. One who by necessity of his ability must be swept along with his story as well, for good or ill.

>>153308495
>Why didn't he just kill everyone in the Soul Society in one night without their notice?

He actually avoided killing the other Captains, the only one who he actually intended to kill was Yamamoto. From his perspective, they weren't worth killing because of how far beneath them they were.

>Why waste his entire time on the hok. When he was already so powerful?

Research, ect., basically he needed to buy time experimenting on the Hougyoku, as well as finding a way into the Royal Realm.

>>153308630
>Avoided killing the other Captains
>They weren't worth killing because of how far beneath him they were.
That's not how becoming God works. You gotta purge all the old order. Even if they are beneath you to send a message.

Also wouldn't it been faster for him to make ground breaking research, get into the Zero Squad, kill the Zero Squad, and then replace the Soul King?

>>153308745
>Also wouldn't it been faster for him to make ground breaking research, get into the Zero Squad, kill the Zero Squad, and then replace the Soul King?

His research was ground-breaking, as was Kisuke's. But it was also forbidden by Soul Society.

>>153302775
>OMG
Who is this?