Which is more cancerous? >isekai where the hero is worshipped

>>153231404
Treated as a saint is worse.
Being the praised for being a clean, well cooking and moral Japanese is so fucking tiring to read.

After some time I'm into it, it will be both.

>>153231465
worse, being praised as being a "nice guy"

>>153231404
The first because it's easier for nerds to self-insert.

>>153231404

Shield hero started off promising but got stupid real quick.

>>153231404
>isekai

It's both awful.

I think it's worse to be Isekai but claim the show is only doing it ironically for the laughs.

>>153231686
You really don't want to know how it ended then.

>>153231737
How does it end?

>isekai where the hero is worshipped and treated like a saint with no effort
>isekai where the hero is hated and persecuted for no reason
Harry Potter really is isekai

>>153232465
Not him and I haven't kept up since the first few chapters but it basically ends with him becoming a God over the multimeter, gaining a shield that absolutely defends against everything, even EGD-tier shit. Raphtalia gets infinite attack power. They kill the final boss by reflecting her instagib back at her and then Naofumi goes back to Japan after knocking up more monster girls than you can count. Turns out the real world changed due to influence of his loli friend in the magical realm, so now he's rich and also has Raphtalia in real life too. Something like that.

>>153231404
isekai

>>153232884
Fish out of water stories aren't necessarily Isekai. Harry Potter, for instance, isn't Isekai.

Isekai is a very specific type of fish-out-of-water story.

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>>153231404
Why can't we just have a fun loving adventure with emotionally moral lesson isekai where they can go home whatever they want?

>>153232996
Holy fuck that's bad

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>>153232465
>How?

Everyone dies, except those that lived.

Those that lived, want to die.

..then they re-wrote the end where everyone lives and no one dies. Kinda a letdown, actually.

>>153231404
First one can at least be interesting if the "hero" is really a jerk or somehow damaged (like Thomas Covenant).

Second one's obnoxious unless it's being played for comedy.

>>153233175
And that's the REVISED ending.

>>153231648
Fine with this as long as nice guy doesn't equal Ichika tropes

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But the original LN journey where Shield Hero goes from level 0 to 1000 is great... after that is hit and miss. I am currently re-enjoying the story through the (slowly released) manga.

>>153233175
That ending was a rewrite, the original ending was everybody fucking dies and Naofumi gets kicked back to Japan, the end.

>>153233530
Wish there were more updates for spear hero. Timey loopy adventures of insane lvl 999 motoyasu are a blast.

>>153232996
>>153233175
>Turns out the real world changed due to influence of his loli friend in the magical realm.
The loli Self-inserted as his rich 20-yr old childhood friend (and legal loli btw) and crashed his wedding with raphtalia to have him marry her instead.

This the isekai thread?

>MC of Tsuki ga's parents were practically characters from an NTR doujin

Literally what.

>>153234562
No it's the "Which is more cancerous? "isekai where the hero is worshipped and treated like a saint with no effort" or "isekai where the hero is hated and persecuted for no reason"?" thread.

>>153231404
I like

>isekai with op mc and magic world with level/skill system

>>153234607
Persecution for no reason is almost always worse.

>>153231404
Isekai that gets popular and people enjoy.

>>153231404
the first is boring to read, but the second is actively irritating.

>>153233147
if you mean go home whenever they want then there are actually a lot of these.
isekai c mart
netooku
jikuu mahou
takarakuji
some others I can't think of that mostly are about selling supermarket salt and whatever for super high prices because 17th century or whatever

>isekai where the hero is hated and persecuted for no reason
While it may indicate shit writing ahead it's not actually bad by itself, it's fun and can be great with entertaining villains. Shield victim should have done a little more with it's side cast.

>>153234952
This is getting fixed in the LN, but the heroes are still being idiots.

>>153231404
Isekai.

>>153234950
How could you forget about Inuyasha?

>>153231404
clearly the wish fulfillment one. Subaru had a hard life.

>>153235101
He would have had a normal life if he had not been isekai'd.

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>isekai where everybody is wary of the MC because he's 70 levels higher than anybody except the Demon Generals, and is envied because he enslaved two cute waifus

>>153231404
Isekai was a mistake.

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>>153235333
>Isekai was a mistake

>>153231404
The second, because isekai circumstances can easily justify the first.

But the few good isekai are neither of those.

Both are shit when they're at the extreme ends. If I had to pick one though, worship is worse.

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>>153235850

HAIL SHEILD-JEW

HE SAVED US ALL WITH HIS ECONOMIC WAYS!

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>>153231404
>isekai where the hero is worshiped and treated as a saint
>then he dies
>then he is hated and persecuted for no reason
>then he dies again
>now he's a shota

When you add all the cancer together it actually becomes amazing.

>>153234562
>MCs parents were practically from a NTR doujin
elaborate?

>>153231404
An isekai of a massive scale, i.e. a naval frigate ending up in some feudal era, or some Roman Legionnaire suddenly popping up in the middle of the Rwandan Genocide.

>>153236360
>father nobleman
>mother priestess
>got married
>demon comes out of nowhere and NTRs the father
>The woman had not associated herself with any men other than the man that she was betrothed to. The fact that her new partner belonged to a race denied by her religion only served to fuel her passion; she adored him deeply. And thus, everything began to fall apart.
>When both families discovered this, her engagement with the man was broken off and she was banished from Elysion. Right before her eyes, the demon man revealed numerous things about the woman that the man she had been engaged to could not bear to hear, and then died.
Sounds just like the fucked in front of the ex-lover while talking about how much she loved the D scenario.

And in the end, they got back together and eventually had MC a couple years later.

>>153236506
what the fuck?
Does that have any bearing on the story at all or is it just some weird shit the author shoved in?

>>153236360
Read the latest extra pov chapter. Mommy was married into a demon that did something bad, then the dad remarried her after the demon died.

>>153236549
As far as I know, it has no bearing on the story and is just some weird shit shoved in. It's from a side chapter fleshing out the backstory of the parents.

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You've heard of shield jew.

Now get ready for... Punished shield.

>>153233248
I like the first ending, it's bitter sweet like muv luv alternative.

>>153231404

At least isekai is more varied and original than any zombie shit that has come out or will come out.

>>153236746
Tell how did alternative end, cause i think the first ending of shieldbro had nothing sweet about it.
>everyone fucking dies
>your friends, your waifu and the world itself are gone
>shield makes a last ditch effort to teleport you back to your world before it too kicks the bucket
>pretend that nothing happened while having to live with the soul crushing fact that you've failed to protect anything, and all you've done meant nothing.

Generic isekai self-insert horseshit is an active detriment to whatever story is trying to be told.

The second scenario can at least play interestingly off of having the guy overcoming challenges with a greater degree of cunning due to limited resources, living off the grid, etc.

The problem with Shield Knight is that it's shit regardless. It tries too hard with the ridiculous persecution complex it built up, the setting is generic MMO garbage and they fucked up the general anxiety atmosphere by surrounding the MC with cliche pandering '''cute''' anime girls, bringing him full circle all the way back to self-insert worship isekai protagonist. And holy fuck don't get me started on the dark flame shield or whatever it's called

>>153236773
>more original
Not really. The whole 'regular joe transported to another world' plot goes way back. Like, over a century.

>>153237013
>And holy fuck don't get me started on the dark flame shield or whatever it's called
Can you?

>>153231404
The reason they hate the Shield Hero is because it's a title associated with furries. Apparently, nearly everybody in the kingdom hates furshit.

Naofumi just wings it and eventually becomes the mayor of Furryville and spends more than a hundred chapters playing Harvest Moon.

>>153236665

>Punished shield

wait what?

>>153237213
Yeah that's... The whole story in a nutshell.

>>153237067
long story short it's fucking stupid

>raaaagh powerful demonic weapon release the darkness in me crawwwwling
Retarded overdone jap trope/Muramasa analogy made as a 'shit out fake dramatic tension because I cant write an organically tense scene to save my life'. Massive [THING] bearing down on our heroes? Whoops I wrote myself into a corner, now the situation is 'oh boy are any of the harem cast at risk this time? spoiler warning no but boy that was a close one huh'

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>>153237257
Blood sacrifice really tears naofumi a new one, all over his body.

>>153237274
To be honest, the Furryville Harvest Moon chapters was the peak of the series for me. Since Naofumi was slowly reforming himself as well as the other heroes into better people.

The decline starts with Tact's arc where the series circles back into edge but this time with absolutely disgusting powercreep.

>153237330
To be fair the cursed weapons were alluded to since the duel thing. But yes, i can see why it could feel like a cop out. >"Shit's getting bad, better get angrier and unlock a more powerful weapon!".
>>153237403
I get you, specially since we get the final arc after that.

>>153231404
You.

>>153237356

Or when Atla died.

>>153231404
depends on how it plays out.

Though I like the OP hero everyone hates more.

>>153236773
Imagine
>Zombie Isekai

Isekai is the cancer, but what is the chemo?

>>153231465
Was that a haiku?

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Is pic related the savior of isekai novels?

>no hitpoints
>no magic points
>no EXP and levels
>no skills
>no slave heroines
>no "self-aware" otaku references
>no hero worship
>no hero persecution
>classical fantasy tabletopesque worldbuilding
>a poignant message that compares the stagnation of hikkiNEETs to the stagnation of the undead
>a comfy coming-of-age story about a boy being raised by a skeleton, a zombie, and a ghost

There is nothing wrong with isekai: it's hero centric fantasy that makes itself more relatable by making the hero be "just like you but in super kewl circumstances". As Konosuba, re zero and grimgar shows people like this stuff and it has something new for it left to show and explore. Sure, most of the stories tend to me generic trash, but that is how most of the genre fiction is and like with any genre fiction you look for exceptional outliers.

>>153237016
>transported to another world
>Reincarnated to another world
It depends on how it develops from that part though. It can go in many different directions whereas the dying battle harem genre for example couldn't do that.

You can have otome stuff like Kenkyo Kenjitsu(Reika-sama sugoi) or have an MC become a general like Youjo senki/Shiro no koukoku monogatari, Monster MCs like in Kumo/Goblin Kingdom/slime, kingdom/city/management stuff like that warewolf reincarnation/Seiun wo Kakeru. Or just the standard adventure like Vermillion, Saihate, MT, New saga.

I believe it's because of the variety that the narou titles are this popular right now. People were saying it was only temporary and wouldn't take off but look now. You have even Death march and knights and magic getting adapted into an anime and probably more will be announced on the way.

>>153237518
Naofumi going against the other heroes' own cursed weapons were also good arcs

>Itsuki getting rekt by the girl she dumped
>Chocobo racing with Motoyasu the birdfucker
>Ren and Eclair

>>153231404
If this pile of dung heap gets an Anime adaption before a better Isekai like MT, then the world is hopeless.

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>>153238395
Anime when ?

>>153238395
Goodbye thread. It was fun.

>>153238554
I don't think its autismo time YET anon, should be safe for a while untill they wake up.

>>153238120
Faraway Paladin is one of the handful of exceptions that proves the rule.

>>153231404
Those aren't even the worst offenders:

>Isekai where the MC is Japanese and everyone somehow uses Japanese honorifics.

>Isekai where the MC is the only person transported to another world.

>Isekai where the MC brings in his disgusting Jap cousine and soy-sauce and everyone somehow loves it.

>Isekai where everything has game systems and the setting is a straight up ripoff of DQ.

>Isekai Harems where the MC doesn't try to get laid.

>Isekai where the MC is a pretentious edgelord being ''honourable and righteous'' when it suits him but is mostly a prick that would get assassinated sooner or later normally.

>>153238683
Crop rotation, don't forget the crop rotation and modern day wanking that somehow solves the everything.

I wanna see a Japanese version of this:

http://www.novelupdates.com/series/historys-strongest-senior-brother/

The isekai MC of this one gets reincarnated to a world where he's the 'pretty boy that stole the MC's girl' that is a miniboss/stepping stone for the MC. He refuses to submit to the clearly plot-armored MC.

>>153238683

There's also:

>bring modern weaponry into the alternate world, blacksmiths are smitten with them, long useless explanations on how awesome the gun is and everyone is amazed by it

>MC draws on their previous life experience in the shittiest of ways, trained killer - develop gun magic, programmer - develop magic circuit weaponry and recode magic spells

>>153238761
That's a CHINESE parody of the reincarnation-Xianxia genre.

Mind your self.
Xianxia, Xuanhuan and Wuxia are old Chinese genres and by old i mean the Empire still existed when those started circulating.

The Chinese at least try to be original in their own ways and i don't remember many stories with game systems and Dragon Quest clones.

Try reading the works of authors like Er Gen.

>>153238792
Okay the programming part can actually be used for magic settings so it is okay as long as they dont make out the MC having a supercomputer level brain.

>>153238822
Yes, that's why I said 'Japanese.'

I am well aware that it's a parody of Xianxia. The MC having a bullshit ring powerup and is friends with a super powerful old guy and all that. There was even that other guy who was clearly a parody of those ruthless MC characters that are reincarnations of super powerful people from the same world.

>>153238761
>>153238822

Sorry i'm dumb and didn't read the comment properly...just my Jap-hating boner...

What do you think will replace the isekai fad?

>>153238869
The next trope would be the divorced young master...


>>153238891
The Xianxia fad...No seriously it's popular to the point of translators getting official contracts and licences to earn money just from adds.

>>153236506
So who died? The demon died?

>>153238395
>>153238554
>>153238626
Kuro no Maou is better and deserves it since it is an older web novel than MT.

>>153238744
Thank, now you reminded me of that one "realist hero" (read: shit a 14 year old thinks is deep and mature) isekai who saved a kingdom from starvation by pointing out that all the farmers were growing shitloads of cotton to cash in on a textiles boom, and nobody was growing edible crops in the midst of a food shortage

Like, wtf market forces don't do that

https://krytykal.org/teasers/last-bosses/prologue/

Is this considered isekai?

>>153231404
Whichever one it executed worse. If both are executed the same, then whichever is more popular.

Is Digimon Adventure a bad isekai?

>>153240008
I'm pretty sure it's the only example of good isekai.

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>>153239253
>"realist hero" (read: shit a 14 year old thinks is deep and mature) isekai
They tried to clean it up in the LN version by the way.

What is your favourite/most hated isekai?
Muv-luv Unli-Alt will always be my top 1 isekai. I hate Re:monster, Death March, and Mushoku Tensei with a passion.

In the 80's there was a fantasy book series now called the Wizardry series about a Californian hippy programmer being summoned to a magic world by a spell that was supposed to summon a great wizard. Turns out he has no potential for the world's magic.

After some experimentation he discovers that magic works by extremely precise rules and he begins creating a magical compiler and programming language to create magic he can use.

The series is pretty dated, it draws on 1970s/1980s programmer culture but is really interesting because it takes such an in depth approach.

>>153240106
Prototypicals:
- Digimon
- Escaflowne
- El Hazard
- Muv-Luv Unlimited/Muv-Luv Alternative

Archetypicals
- Mushoku Tensei
- Overlord
- Oda Nobuna
- Arifureta <- love to hate
- Shield Hero <- only the first four volumes

Atypicals
- Re:Zero
- Grimgar
- The Faraway Paladin
- Konosuba
- Youjo Senki <- straddling the line between Archetypical and Atypical

Guns of the South is about a paramilitary white supremacist group that travels back in time to give AK-47s and other technology to General Lee. It takes place mostly from the Confederate point of view and is basically from a Confederate apologist perspective that tries to split of racism from the Southern narrative.

>>153238683
>>153238792
Don't forget
>ultimate weapon is a katana folded 1000 gorillion times

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>>153238120
In the case of that one, based on the afterword the author seems to be actually fairly well-exposed to media beyond JRPGs, otaku media, and narou. Which may have helped.

>I love A Wizard of Earthsea. I think that Sparrowhawk is one of the greatest wizards in fantasy.
>I love the movie Conan the Barbarian as well. The moment where Conan prays to Crom before the last battle is very memorable.
>I had a lot of impressive sci-fi recommended to me by my friends, too. A Princess of Mars, Citizen of the Galaxy, The Martian...
>Ah, and Civilization—I’m sure anyone who's played those games will understand when I say that they consumed a “little” of my time. I had “Baba Yetu” on repeat more than once.
>Adventures of Tom Sawyer. Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. Superheroes like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. Annie (the musical), the movies Singin' in the Rain, Stand by Me, The Professional, etc.
>I love the Rocky series too. I've seen them countless times. (Except V. I repeat: except V!)
>Some I picked out myself; others were recommended to me by my friends.
>There are countless works and characters from America and other English-speaking countries that I have very fond memories of.
>I have received so much from your words, and from the works the English language has produced. So The Faraway Paladin getting an English translation is a truly happy thing for me.
>I have received excitement, emotion, and memories from creators on distant continents oceans apart. If I have been able to give even a little back, nothing would make me happier.

I strongly suspect that part of the problem with modern isekai is that you write what you know and too many amateur writers only know each other's works, which creates an inbred abomination of samey JRPG isekai adventures. In reading Saihate no Paladin you can see where the author has drawn inspiration from a variety of sources which are decidedly not JRPGs.

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>>153235653

>>153236444
>tfw barbarians everywhere
>no Caesar to hail
>I want to go back to my Pax Romana
The poor legionnaire would have killed himself.

The Soprano Sorceress series is about a female middle aged music teacher summoned to a magic world where music powers magic. She is magically restored to youth and proceeds to tear apart society because of its violence, prejudice against women, and general for being low tech. She uses scientific knowledge, magically created public works infrastructure, and restructures the economy, bureaucracy, and political system using a combination of said knowledge, magical infrastructure, magically generated resources, WMD magical warfare, and magical assassination.

No joke, she pulls a Light and believes in secret assassinations and wants to create a shadow cabal of shadow sorceresses to kill people she feels are harmful to society.

>>153231404
>isekai
Both are eqaully cancerous.

The Ring of Fire series is about an entire rural town being dropped into Shot and Pike Europe. The townsfolk use guns, modern technology, science, and knowledge of history to establish themselves as a regional power.

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>>153238120
God of death best girl

All low tier isekais suffer from fanfic mentality. The writers dont understand the need for adversity or the flaws of a protagonist. Protags that are worshipped as saints or shat on for no reason are pretty bad but salvageable. My hated isekais are the ones where the protag is set up and treated as an underdog while he is obviously really op.
>oh no, my powers are really weak, how will I defeat this jock-knight?
>hahaha nerd-hero, you are really weak because you are dirty peasant or somewhere low on the social ladder
>oops, turns out my power is really strong and I was just reading the manual wrong. Im actually a demi-god and multipled my character stats by a few thousand
>darn you nerd-hero, eventhough you are the living embodiment of our creator god, I and the rest of the world will still treat you like a black man playing professional basketball in the 1960s

A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court is about an Industrial Revolution Age man dropped into Arthurian Britain and his subsequent attempts to modernize it.

Why do all Isekai/fantasy ln/wn run out of steam like 2 volumes in? They all seem to become the same shit at that point

>>153240481
>Soprano
That episode where Tony gets isekai'd into his coma dream world was perfection.

>>153240595
Because often at that point the gimmick has run its course and the writer has no more ideas.

>>153240595
world building and long term plot planning is hard

>>153240568

The ones I dislike are when the MC is basically playing in a sandbox. He basically drives the plot personally and all "conflict" is basically how he reacts to the situation he initiated. It's very predictable and masturbatory.

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There are good ones

>>153240481
Too bad her writing is almost as stilted as Larry Niven's. The setting is great. It's also interesting to note that there's a limited amount of dark magic one can do in one's lifetime, and things like scrying, mind control, and crossing dimensions fit into this category. She only learns this well after she's used too much dark magic, and she slips into despair after no longer being able to scry her children on Earth.

I really like the sequel with her native-born disciple taking on her role, and trying to decipher her notes on WMDs. After using a volcano spell to defeat the not-Vikings and their legion of war drummers, she settles on a fusion spell rather than the fission spell because it seems easier to understand. After she and her band use it to obliterate a castle at the end, their eyes are stained with a silvery cast from then on, sort of a mystic radiation poisoning. It makes their vision a little worst but mostly just scares the shit out of people.

>>153240620
>being your own dm
kek, this always turns out terrible

Kumo-san got a real classic Timothy Zahn-style feeling post-apotheosis.

>>153240637

L E Modesitt Jr's books are interesting because he uses an Order/Chaos or Harmony/Dissonance axis for magic and morality. It's also interesting because of how he gets into issues of finance, economics, politics and infrastructure, it always makes me want to play Civilization afterwards.

On the other hand I don't need to read an entire chapter about his characters going to an inn, asking what the meal for the night, comment that the prices are high, overhear rumors in the common room, get the food, pay the waitress, eat the food, then have philosophical musings. Oh and that happens every time his characters travel, several times per book, in every single book.

Worse yet even though most of his characters are powerful mages they spend most of their time working on tradeskills and their day jobs, even though they half kill themselves every time they get called in to blow up an enemy army and kill the opposing mage, but nope leatherworking isn't going to max itself.

>>153240782
The day job thing is pretty reasonable really, as I recall she spends most of the series being a manager or ruler. That shit takes all of your time. Also the magic is super specialized and takes a lot of energy to do, you can't just do that all day either.

>>153240893

I mean his Recluse series, the MCs in that series have jobs like woodworker, lumbermill worker, scriviner, blacksmith, engineer, city guard, cooper, etc.

>>153239253
It did happen numerous times in british colonies (muh tea and opium), the soviets (deliberate genocide) and all the time in china (farmers had to pay taxes in silver, the only crop that sold for silver was mulberry to make silk).

>>153240632
>mishmash of european culture from early middle ages to late victorian
>europeans being mindblown by basic japanese cuisine
I hate these tropes so much

>>153241254

There was a similar example in recent times, when the US switched to 10% ethanol in our gasoline we created a massive corn shortage. This ended up creating a massive problem in Mexico because with globalization they didn't produce enough corn domestically to feed their demand, instead importing from the US.

Isekai always comes across to me as the author just jerking off to their personal fantasies.

I thought 12 Kingdoms was decent though.

>>153231404
both are outright shit and lazy. This should be made through interaction and story progress.

>>153239253
I don't know how to tell you this but that kind of shit happens all the fucking time

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Too many of these stories plop the hero in a fantasy world similar to DnD or final fantasy.

I'd like to see one where they instead end up in something like warhammer fantasy. Everything wants to kill you, thoughtcrime is real, all power comes with immediate risk, and any cute girl wearing a garterbelt is probably a vampire.

The Polaris Chronicles isn't straight-up isekai, since the protag doesn't just warp in from a 7-11, but the fucker is pretty much (you).
>a literal wizard who hasn't gotten laid even in a world where there's easy access to prostitutes and where he lives in close quarters with two other chicks
>literate unlike everyone else and thus thinks he's the greatest
>okay, so actually Shinji but got in the robot this time.

Still, the main cast actually have pretty lulsy adventures that mainly involve fighting medieval-ish SJW hordes from the orient, removing kebab (and then feeling really bad about it because they just helped torched a lot of people who didn't actually do anything to them), and making fun of MC's wizard status. The author is probably one of those /ak/ types, since one of the characters is Jewish Asuka.

whats the title of that manga where when he kills he gets the skills as cards?

>>153241324
>europeans being mindblown by basic japanese (anything)
This was a real thing that happened, and exploded in the 19th century. See "Japonism".

>>153241680
Cardcaptor Sakura?

Kamen Rider Decade?

>>153241680
final fantasy 8

How can you execute well a "weak to strong" MC that isn't beta pussy bitch and will not hesitate to take extreme measures such as breaking morality for the sake of survival?

It's an isekai that has a harsh settings which includes bullshit OP enemies, backstabbing cunts, and politics.

>>153241974
nothing personnel kid

Can someone explain why people hated Arifureta?

Could you give me a summary on how it turned into a steaming pile of shit.

Thanks.

>>153242153
The biggest concern with Arifureta is how utterly lazy the writing becomes. You can decide MC can do literally everything, if that's your gimmick that's fair, but the developments are handwaved and asspulled in a couple of lines and aren't really explored or justified, which breaks suspension of disbelief.

For example, one of the very first asspulls, the rail gun.

How did he start off designing it? What real revolver did he use as the model?

How did he decide on the optimum barrel length? Bullet shape and size? Quantity of gunpowder substitute? Rifling? Weight/power balance? Not told.

Were there any accidents or setbacks during the development and testing? We're not told.

Did he draw his design anywhere or was he relying entirely on memory to retain the whole design as it changed over time? We're not told!

The text heavily implies he never actually tested it against a monster, because the very next chapter the rabbit he kills is the first victim of the bullshit gun. How did he test his gun? How did he quantify the results so he could improve on previous revisions? We're not told.

How does he know that it's ten times stronger than an antimatter rifle? Has he ever fired an antimatter rifle?

In the span of one paragraph he just builds a gamebreaking gun with no justification.

But it gets even worse.

>BTW I built this submarine earlier because we might have to go underwater

>I've been working on it for quite a while, but you've never seen me work on it, I've never mentioned it, and the harem never noticed I was working on it

>I've also never been near a large enough body of water to test it in, but I know it works

>I never predicted we'd have to use it in magma, but I happened to make it totally able to stand up to magma temperatures and pressures and to insulate us from the heat

>None of this will ever be addressed

>It will be handwaved in one line that I built this sub and my harem will wet themselves in awe

>>153231404
If I'm reading isekai it better not make me feel bad for the MC, I'm already reading the fast food of manga

>>153231404
Whats the isekai where he trains slimes and gets some kind of poison body and kills cannibal barbarian qt with his sperm?

Skill Taker is the only good Isekai these days.

>>153242363
Haven't you heard my name is sakamoto666

How about Konjiki no Word Master?

>>153242153
it was a steaming pile of shit from the beginning.

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>>153231404
>>isekai where the hero is worshipped and treated like a saint with no effort
>or
>>isekai where the hero is hated and persecuted for no reason

Aren't Isekai BOTH thinks at the same time?

MC is a looser or monster despised and mistreated.

MC gets the attention admiration and love of everyone

I can't think on a single isekai in which is one or another, its always both.

>>153238683

>>Isekai where the MC is Japanese and everyone somehow uses Japanese honorifics.

I accept that bit of stupidity as more of a "it's being written in Japanese and their language doesn't read right if they don't use honorifics" thing. As in it's a sacrifice of accuracy for intended readers comfort then accuracy. The main reason I feel it doesn't translate well to english is because we lack a focus on the small granular titles that asian countries tend to have. (like formal senior student vs close friend or whatever)

As an aside, a quirk of english is He/Her/They. If you totally remove gender from english pronouns you get a ton of "They" which sounds really weird and jarring because it feels like it's always referring to a group. We just lack a good neutral singular.

>>Isekai where the MC brings in his disgusting Jap cousine and soy-sauce and everyone somehow loves it.

This one actually really bugs me sometimes. I like asian cuisine but foreign tastes take awhile to get used to. It would at least be nice to see a strong counter movement that really dislikes the newly introduced cuisine.

Also this point gets to another major element a lot of Isekai (and stories in general) don't get into. Pride makes people dig in their heels and act like they already know everything. This kind of political challenge isn't really thrown at MCs.


>>Isekai where the MC is a pretentious edgelord being ''honourable and righteous'' when it suits him but is mostly a prick that would get assassinated sooner or later normally.

That also gets into the politics thing. It's usually a single powerful individual being put up against any given MC for any given story arch. Get to todays BBEG and stop him and everyone else collapses. It's Star Wars emperor's death all over again.

Thing is this is not an Isekai only issue. Many stories have a single mastermind rather then a cloud of various people for whom the MC is an enemy.

I want to travel back in time and kill the person who came up with the whole isekai genre

I'll call it

"I Hate Isekai So I Prayed To The Devil But Now I'm In 2010 As A Little Girl And The Inventor Of Isekai Wants To Fuck My Tight Loli Ass!"

and make millions on the LN market

>>153241683
Exoticism is one thing, being in awe of dried squid is another.

>>153238792
Programmer - magic circuit totally works as a concept though. A great programmer greatest asset isn't knowing a programming language but how to make pick up languages very quickly. It's very much a field about problem solving, logic, and system design. So long as magic operates on consistent and predictable principles it is 100% reasonable to develop a "language" and "syntax" for that magic which then allows you to program things.

Granted as
>>153238853
points out the big issue is speed of development. A single programmer should be theoretically limited in their development pace.

But Knights and Magic is fantastic fun and I am 100% okay with having the MC have these "issues" so the focus can be on awesome robot development.

Isekai isn't the cancer, it's a symptom. The real cancer are the web novels, the latest shit plaguing the industry. Just when you think manga can't drop further, you now get crap based on some random NEET's webfics.

I liked the Isekai where the protagonist is a vending machine.

I'd like to be an inanimate object in a fantasy world and be carried around by an oppai loli

>>153237966
oh shit.

>>153243190
Is better to kill the guy who invented the long titles in the LN

>>153241974
You switch to chinese Wuxia and related genres.

No seriously. I like a wide variety of LNs and read both. Even with "+xp hack" cheats that most Xianxia(?) authors grant their MCs. There is often a lot of non-beta extreme measures. Trick is it's usually "well we are enemies now so I'm going to wipe your entire clan out so nobody can come back for revenge later".


Oh and even though I've looked it up before. I still don't really get the difference between Wuxia, Xuanhuan, and Xianxia. Anyone got any tips?

>>153243404

Increasing levels of supernatural stuff and magic

>>153241974
Isn't that shieldbro?

>>153233238
Thomas Covenant for most kawaii anime character.

>>153243376
Most of those long titles are way shorter in Kanji or whatever the chinese call it.

Take "I Shall Seal the Heavens" a chinese LN. Long title right? In chinese it's "我欲封天".

>>153238248
>It depends on how it develops from that part though. It can go in many different directions whereas the dying battle harem genre for example couldn't do that
Literally the only defining traits of a battle harem are having battles and harems. It's anything but limiting.
If you said something like academy battle harem I might agree with you.
Still fucking shit though.

>>153243277
dubs aside, once in a blue moon you do still find the odd gem buried in that Narou shithole.

Mushoku Tensei is one for example
+ Likeable characters
+ Likeable harem
+ Extensive worldbuilding
+ Story about friends and family and growing up
+ Character development
+ Strong MC that had to work his ass off to get what he has
+ No RPG game mechanics
+ Moral lessons

Konosuba another one
+ Likeable characters
+ Likeable harem
+ Characters play off one another well
+ Story about fucking around and getting into hijinks
+ Weak MC who doesn't need to be strong because he doesn't fight on the front lines anyway
+ Abuses RPG game mechanics


Or a really fantastic one, Faraway Paladin
+ Flowing prose
+ Likeable characters
+ Extensive worldbuilding
+ No harem
+ Story about friends and family and living life to its fullest
+ Character development
+ MC raised by undeads
+ Strong but not overpowered mc that actually gained his strength through hard work and learning from his parents and the efforts of others too
+ No RPG game mechanics
+ Moral lessons

>>153243538
>Most of those long titles are way shorter in Kanji or whatever the chinese call it.
Nope, still too long even for the Chinese.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/01/16-1/chinese-translators-rebel-against-long-light-novel-titles

>>153243404
Basic rules of thumb:

If there's immortals, or is centered around cultivating into an immortal, it's Xianxia.

If there's races besides humans, or humans practitioners easily live over 100, it's Xuanhuan.

>>153243484
That's it? So all three can have cultivation and magic bullshit chinese medicine needles? So it's a bit like Dick Tracy vs Batman vs Superman? In terms of relative power levels rather then specific story flavor.

>>153243064
Looks like you haven't checked out legend of the white kingdom. The guy over there is literally like literally a saint, Chosen One, Saviour, Messiah you name it.

>>153243538
That's not a long title "I'm a loser but my cute little sister made me commit seppuku and I turned into a heaven sealing apparatus but it's ok because loli witches like me now" is a long title.

>>153243577
>68 characters long
>One character is more or less a word

Touche.

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I don't remember that happen in the WN of MT maybe is another minor change in the LN or Manga original scene.

>>153243404
Xianxia MCs are even more fucking obnoxious than isekai MCs.

At least being inoffensively nice is a genuine positive trait that's generally appreciated by people even if isekai MCs do tend to get disproportionately wanked to the heavens and back for whatever small acts of kindness they do. A "nice guy" MC getting rewarded for being nice isn't illogical, it's just that sometimes the reward is too big for too little effort.

But xianxia MCs are fucking sociopathic cunts who go on about the "law of the jungle" and how "this is a cruel world where only the strongest survive" BUT AT THE SAME TIME like to pretend they're morally superior than whatever asshole sect leader they just vivisected and how this makes them a better person. They just keep flip flopping between "morals are for the weak, I do what I must to survive" when they're being an asshole but then refer back to those exact morals to distinguish why they're a better, superior individual when it's convenient.

>>153243610
There's some definitions on one of the biggest translating sites.
http://www.wuxiaworld.com/general-glossary-of-terms/
Wuxia (武俠 wǔxiá) – literally means “Martial Heroes”. Fictional stories about regular humans who can achieve supernatural fighting ability through Chinese martial arts training and internal energy cultivation. Themes of chivalry, tragedy, revenge & romance are common.

Xianxia (仙侠 xiānxiá) – literally means “Immortal Heroes”. Fictional stories featuring magic, demons, ghosts, immortals, and a great deal of Chinese folklore/mythology. Protagonists (usually) attempt to cultivate to Immortality, seeking eternal life and the pinnacle of strength. Heavily inspired by Daoism.

Comparison: If Wuxia is “low fantasy”, then Xianxia is “high fantasy”.

Xuanhuan (玄幻 xuánhuàn) – literally means “Mysterious Fantasy”. A broad genre of fictional stories which remixes Chinese folklore/mythology with foreign elements & settings.

Xuanhuan and Xianxia novels may sometimes seem similar on the surface. Look for the presence of Daoist elements (the Dao, Yin and Yang, Immortals, etc…) in the novel to easily distinguish the two – if they aren’t present, then it’s probably a Xuanhuan novel.

>>153243538
>My Right Hand Brings Nothing But Misfortune, So I'll Destroy That Illusion Again Today

>My female classmate became a god and now aliens and espers and time travellers are surrounding me!

>Link Out! I can't log out?! Because I was trapped in a VRMMO, I decided to solo the death game!

>>153243784
I don't disagree and this is why I read both. That guy was asking very specifically for characters that Xianxia MCs fit very well.

Actually a big reason I've been enjoying Xianxia is because it feels like I'm peeking into a different cultures basic...*waves hands* thought process?

Anyway, I will defend some of the MCs as managing to straddle a moral line. I won't call them perfect and the stories I've enjoyed also often recognize them as being bloody-handed. However, it's made some sense.

The common explanation for these kind of people is that they repay good deeds with good deeds and bad deeds with death. Throw in some filial obligation and loyalty to friends. (which I don't fully get but I do understand is very important in chinese culture).

The end result is often clan/sect vs clan/sect. With lots of internal conflict.

Further justification is often that in setting to raise power you must exhaust resources. However, resources are limited and everyone wants them.

What bugs me is the lack of variety. It's not often I see a story where unity and sharing are winning the day. Working together to perform research or fight. It's usually lots of individuals jealously passing along their secrets only to direct disciples.

>>153243784
>But xianxia MCs are fucking sociopathic cunts who go on about the "law of the jungle" and how "this is a cruel world where only the strongest survive" BUT AT THE SAME TIME like to pretend they're morally superior than whatever asshole sect leader they just vivisected and how this makes them a better person. They just keep flip flopping between "morals are for the weak, I do what I must to survive" when they're being an asshole but then refer back to those exact morals to distinguish why they're a better, superior individual when it's convenient.
That's what happens when you try to mix Legalism, Confucianism, and Daoism all together.

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>>153243975

>>153243906
If it's okay, any recommendations from these Chinese genre?

I would like to try these "you hurt my friend, now I am going to wipe out the shit of your entire clan till to your great great grandfather!"

>>153244305
The only traditional Wuxia I've read is The Smiling Proud Wanderer.
God damn, I love the name of that title.

If you really want a "kill everyone" xianxia, Martial God Asura is one of the killiest.

>>153241701
I bet decade is at fault for this thread

>>153244305
Some stuff I've enjoyed. Though not all of these MCs are "wipe out your clan" level.

>I Shall Seal the Heavens
Goes through some major story arcs and is long. MC starts off as a Scholar and is dragged into the cultivation world. MC evolves into someone very ruthless over the course of the story. Being able to see the incidents that eventually lead to the MC being ruthless helps a lot.

Oh also it contains The Parrot. Who is one of the most hilarious characters to have ever been devised.

>Path to Heaven
Hilarious MC picks up an artifact spirit with ancient knowledge as his cheat. MC himself has lived a very poor life and is a money grubber. He's also fairly clever and approaches things with a schemer mindset. Not very ruthless but schemers are fun.

>Transcending the Nine Heavens
MC dies at the pinnacle and is brought back in time to his youth. Basically gets an "extra life". MC was a rather ruthless lone wolf type in his previous life that was fully devoted to unlocking his own strength. His regrets over what he sacrificed for strength are what unlocked the extra life. So he's focused on protecting what what he lost last time and diving into political intrigue and such.

>Genius Doctor Black Belly Miss
Only recently read and got up to date on this. Been reading some of the "more for girls romance/ruthless woman" stories but this one's a good bit different. While there is some romance elements it's much closer to a cultivation focus/power base solidifying story.

MC is a somewhat autistic genius doctor that is reincarnated into another world. She's very ruthless and tends to focus on getting some revenge before killing people by crushing their pride first.

She also grew up under some pretty bad conditions and is emotionally stunted and lacks people skills. This is played as a flaw and several situations would have been more easily solved by charismatic MCs. She can be described as a bunny that eats people that try to kill her whole.

I like to binge. Which means that I'm suffering waiting for a lot of these LN to update. Anyone got any tips for how I can get set up with machine translating some stuff for myself? What programs and such to use?

>>153245021
Translation Aggregator and ChiiTrans (with JParser and mecab) used to be popular among VN readers to the best of my recollection. They work best if you already know some Japanese yourself though and mainly need machine assistance with difficult kanji and parsing sentences into their components.

>>153245524
I know some japanese so this should be a great way to get my practicing more.

Trick is it's some of the chinese LN that I'm most "on the edge of my seat" with....and I know no chinese. So. Yeah.

I'll look into that stuff though ty.

>>153241683
That was just French nobility being eastboos.

>>153243404
Well to explain the main difference:

Wuxia is mundane heroes compeeting in martial skills.

Xuanhuan is heroes in a world with magic being muscle-wizards.

Xianxia is heroes in a world with magic using that magic to become immortal and beyond (which can lead to obnoxious powerwank with only few authors avoiding this pitfall).

Basically:

Wuxia - ''realism'' with super skilled individuals

Xuanhuan - low fantasy

Xianxia - High fantasy (the setting for Elderscrolls for example would fit this category cause they have people straight up breaking the world to become immortal).

>>153243784
It's kinda like you missed the point of Xianxia protagonists being thick-skinned sociapths.
They are like greek heroes.

>>153239253
Why don't they just use the money from selling cotton to import food from somewhere else?

>>153240567
One thing I liked about this story was that the MC is a paladin (i.e. holy knight) who actually serves and worships the goddess in whose name he is purging the undead. You rarely get any MCs in these stories who treat religion as anything other than a joke or a corrupt cult, and it adds to the world feeling well rounded with an actual pantheon of gods that can intervene.

>>153244305
Reccomendations:

>''I shall seal the heavens'' by Er Gen
MC is a kidnapped confucian schollar and miser conning his way to getting stronger.
It's pretty hillarious most of the time.

>''A will eternal'' by Er Gen
MC is again a dickass thief (the author writes these kinds of characters well)

>Battle Through the Heavens
A classic story with lots of cliches you will see refferenced in other stories making fun of it but it's a good read. Don't be scared of the prologue because it's about the only part of the story where it's mentioned that the MC is supposed to be reincarnated.

>Warlock of the Magus World
Get this, a scientist from the future who has an implanted supercomputer in his brain dies in a nuclear explosion during an experiment and is sent to a standard xianxia/xuanhuan world and the supercomputer kinda fused with his soul so he's part cyborg...oh and he's god damn evil but in a fun way where he does evil only if it benefits him.

>Upgrade Specialist In Another World
The author pulls of a switch and bait with this one... Don't be scared of the VRMMO tag cause it becomes irellevant after chapter 1.

>History's Strongest Senior Brother
A parody of other Xianxia stories.
Basically a new trope where the MC is a reincarnated person who thinks he's just a mob character to be beaten by the ''real MC''.

>The silly alchemist
The MC is a straight up retard...Just read it. It's great.

>>153246505
because that money used to pay tribute

>>153238290
>illegal bird racing
Sounds fun when you think about it

>>153231404
The one not written by Sakamoto666

>>153244609
>>153244912
>>153247029

Thank you.

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>>153240384
>>153240104
>>153238120
Are J-Novel Club the saviors of English LNs?

>>153231404
The latter. It's so frustrating to see people hated and persecuted for no reason. Being treated as a saint with no effort isn't good either but at least it's no where near as annoying.

>>153233238
It's only interesting if the story treats him like a jerk. Nothing is more annoying than a hero that act like an ass, but the story treats him like he's a decent guy.

>>153243547
Amen

>>153231404
As long as not every chick he meets, tries to crest his dick, I don't care.

>>153231404
>isekai where the hero is hated and persecuted for no reason

Nidome no Yuusha was a great example, the good thing is that. The MC went in a path of carnage in his 2nd life.

He became the enemy of a country as he carries out his revenge to each and every person who betrayed him during his first run in that world. I love how he slowly tortures and massacre everyone.

>>153238761
There's an otome version of that where the girl reincarnates into FeMC's evil nobility live rival.

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The Shield series for me lost all my interest when it went from "decent underdog story with slightly edgy protag with a heart of gold" to "how much can we suck the protag's dick this chapter!?"

>>153233139
What's the definition?

>>153231404
>cancerous
Please expand your underage vocabulary.

>>153249707
>underage
Please expand your juvenile vocabulary.

>>153237016
Longer.
But isn't Barsoom technically isekai?

>>153249791
Fuck you, you're not my real dad.

>>153249875
And no dinner for you, mister.

Somebody reading Tales of Reincarnated lord? A nd can recommend similar "kingdom building" works?

>>153241550
>any cute girl wearing a garterbelt is probably a vampire
...of the pure-evil corpse monster kind.
Not the cute blood-sucking fay we get when they're not automatically abominations.

>>153231404
Isekai where no one gives a fuck about the hero.

>>153249875
Neither is your current dad.

>>153238792
>>153243274
Are you confusing programmers with hardware manufacturers?

>>153249812
Barsoom and Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court are the two that stand out to me the most.

Though I believe Twain wrote the latter in response to a rash of similar stories showing up at the time. Which is why the Yankee had all sorts of weird, stupidly specific knowledge, and did stupid shit like organize a baseball team out of the knights.

Should I learn chinese if I want to read all this stuff or is the payoff not worth it?

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>>153243282
I'd like to be the ultimate sword and be used by a super hot chick.

>>153249427
>There's a million otome versions of that where the girl reincarnates into FeMC's evil nobility live rival.
FTFY.

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>Strategy otaku is sent to a new world and becomes the grand general of a nations army.
>WAR WERE DECLARED and he gets to march against an enemy he thinks will be an easy win.
>But the enemy commander is also someone from Earth that was Isekai'd.
>And they're also a strategy Otaku.

>>153251134
Might as well just learn Japanese no need to torture yourself.

>>153251382
I already know japanese, not proficiently mind you, but I read mushoku tensei with only one or two word searches per chapter and I consider that good enough.

>>153251382
>Learn Japanese
>To not torture
Don't you have it backwards?

>>153251329
Kinda done already its called Katahane no Riku minus the strategy otaku part.

But I'm sure there's already something exactly like that if you dig into narou deep enough.

Why the fuck was my LN thread yesterday deleted for being "off topic" but this is still here?

If LNs are off topic for /a/ which board do they belong in?

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>All-American boy gets isekai'd to fantasy world.
>Introduces Grid-Iron football to masses.
>Judo prodigy gets Isekai'd.
>Fucking dies because Judo is for fags.

>>153251134
Learn it.
Knowing Chinese is also helpfull for academic and buisness pursuits these days.

But Chinese novels are usually freely translated and availible online.

>>153251715
http://imgur.com/a/aSFTC

Save yourself

>>153236444
There's a book on that I think a modern day is destroyer goes back to world war 2

>>153231533
This.

>>153251783

Jesus Christ.

Commies, not even once

>>153231404
The one where he's hated because it's frustrating to read people get fucked over just because everyone else is apparently a dick.

>>153231465
No, you're retarded

>>153251640
Try to start the thread with a image of the manga adaptation of a LN (preferably that still don't have anime adaptation, Shield, Kumo or Mushoku are good idea) write something with Isekai, don't write "LN thread" and you have a LN thread

>>153240341
Wasn't that by harry turtle dove? I don't remember his other work where the south wins the civil war being apologistic

>>153252320
i started the thread with the image of the series, thread title with the name. Had about 40 replies then it vanished and I got a warning for being off topic. I was pretty sure LNs were well within the boundaries of /a/.

>>153240527
I actually have been meaning to read that series and wasn't the idea being to show how much knowledge is really contained in a high school library?

>>153240430
There's a series by the guy who wrote the Dresden file novels it's about a world where the lost roman legion landed and built a Rome style empire using the magic elementals of the land

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Looks like Jinrou e no Tensei got a manga adaption. That one where the MC is a warewolf and manages a town they conquer.

>>153251454
Cool though MT is pretty straightforward which is not really a bad thing with how it reads. Did you check out 古龍の昔話 already?

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>>153232996
So should I just stop buying the LNs? Cause that sounds horrid.

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>>153251640
>>153252414
>>153252320

>>153252558
You could always read the digital versions then buy physical if you like it

>>153232996
fun fact: that's just the WN ending which u isn't even that specific, the LN itself is being refined and still ongoing at that

>>153252558
LN pricing in the US bothers me. LNs are cheap in Japan yet the English versions average $12-15 for a single volume 200~ page paperback

It's a shame too since official releases tend to be better quality than the ESL tier translations scattered across blogs

>>153252504
Codex Alera. Wow now that I think about it, that could be an awesome Isekai series since the MC starts out as a rare non powered kid in a world where everyone has powers (sort of like My Hero Academia)

>>153252726
Average shieldbro page count is in the 300s

>>153252892
That's better than average. I've seen some very short volumes for popular series when I was in a book store recently and was very surprised when I saw they cost more than manga volumes

>>153252964
I buy a lot of manga/LNs at my local anime conventions. Wait till Sunday (last day) and haggle for whole series.

>>153232996
Was it that?, i remember that the pair got Godlike powers but had the eternal mision to fight against others being like the Bitch goodness (supposed the first race with advanced technology in the universe). The messed ending abut harem end and married modern end was that the 2 of them pour a small piece of their soul in a mortal vesel that lived, and when they died their knowledge would go to the main soul giving a small relief to their literal never ending fight.

>>153252634
is the LN/manga the same story/ending as the WN?

>>153252736
Oh and he ends up with a Monster Girl Waifu. Yeah, perfect Isekai or manga plot.

>>153252726
>since official releases tend to be better quality than the ESL tier translations scattered across blogs
You can probably barely count on one hand the amount of people who don't MTL and are proficient in English. Especially with narou LNs/WNs.

>>153249640
It's transported off to another world

>>153253045
The LN didn't even end yet, they even altered/added/refined the arcs after vol 4

>>153253321
is anyone translating the LN?

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>>153231404
I like it when the summoned hero just fucks off and does his own thing

there[s a manga where mc doesn't realise he's in a rpg world becasue he gets better at something just by grinding but thinks the concept is dumb.a lot of the early parts is spent in some cave. he was a firemaker and that's all he was good at. anyonne know it?

>>153253359
Nope gotta wait for official releases.

>>153253359
Nope, only official release

>>153254051
>>153254092
are official releases uploaded anywhere or is there just not a scanning scene for this?

>>153231404
Arifureta made me hate the edgy MC thing.
I don't think I ever wanted an MC to get rekt as much as Arifureta's MC.

>>153236506

Is that Makoto's parents? I thought they're just normal people who got Isekai'd to modern Japan

>>153254255
Madokami

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>>153254471

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Can weak MCs be good if they're dirty cheating MADMEN?

>>153254609
I wish, but every mc is gifted the equivalent of a nuke upon arrival

>>153254471
I'm logged in and only see manga uploads anon

>>153254761
There's this neat search field. Alternatively, sekritclub.lawlessdomain/Novels/

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I'm pretty sure these authors are having some kind of competition to see who can write the trashiest novel and still have a readership.

Where can i get pdf of "Faraway Paladin"?
please?

>>153254609
Yes. You can be weak and beat the strongest by cheating or being smarter than them.

>>153255017
Can you read moonrunes?

>>153255013

owning a slave was a normal thing on earth too fucker. Why would he need so many? labor farm?

>>153255013
No, this is just what happens when you inbreed. You lose all of the positive traits of the genre and keep all of the negative traits.

The question is just whether the genre is being perpetuated by the readers who have shit taste or the authors who don't know how to write. Or both.

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>>153254550
Sorry