The infinite tsukuyomi wasn't a bad thing

>murdering people is okay as long as you murder EVERYBODY

>>153076633
They get to experience happiness in augmented reality for life

>>153076633
But was murder even necessary?

and then get sucked up by a malicious alien

>>153076557
Did you not watch what happened once the jutsu happened? It's pretty terrible.

>>153076960
Everyone has to die eventually. Not everyone gets the luxury of experiencing a lifetime of happiness.

>>153077780
Yeah but infinite happiness unattainable in reality is pretty good

>>153077896
If you reduce somebody to only wanting happiness, you have rendered them braindead and are thus a murderer.

I wish Hidan and Kakuzu survived the show

>>153077933
It was never really explained, but if everyone trapped in it were going to eventually become soldiers for Kaguya like Black Zetsu said, who knows if you even keep dreaming once that happens.

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>>153077780
Just imagine how much hinata's comatose body was taken advantage of by my man madara

>>153078017
Well Hidan is isn't he? He just has to live underground as a severed head for the rest of forever.

>>153076557
This is correct

>>153078136
Lmao Madara wasn't around very long once the jutsu happened.

>>153077969
No one is disputing that it's murder. But who is it really hurting? Everyone gets what they want. And it's not simply giving people happiness, it gives them their idealised life. What's so bad about that?

>>153078173
Reminder that Naruto ruined everyone's happiness.

>>153078173
The response to that is pretty much the message of the whole show. Life will never be perfect and you'll always run into bumps in the road. The people who endure are those who believe in themselves and will keep their lost ones in their hearts. You don't have to agree with that statement, but it was the shows main message.

>>153078173
It's not giving them what they want, it's puppeting their corpses to make them say that they want what it offers.

>>153078146
Can you imagine him finding a way out through digging with his teeth and then finding a way to get back to Shikamaru and murder him and Temari?

>>153078256
Well in the real world that's a good message and I agree with it. But in the context of the plot of the story, the inifinite tsukiyomi was totally a good thing.

>>153078285
It's literally letting them live out their dreams. It's giving them exactly what they want.

>>153077780
Isn't that OP's point? Kishimoto introduced that plot point because he knew the tsukuyomi alone was a good thing.

>>153078437
If that were true, it wouldn't work on everybody. If somebody wished to know things that were beyond the infinite tsukuyomi, then the tsukuyomi is just lobotomizing them then killing them.

>>153078369
The jutsu ended up not being a good thing. Everyone in it were going to become soldiers for Kaguya. The white zetsu were from the previous IS. It was never said if the person that the soldier used to be is still dreaming but yeah you can assume that they still are.

>>153078536
Why would it not work on everybody? You don't seem to be getting this concept that it lets them live exactly the life they want as they imagine it. The only limitations to what they can experience are those created by their own lack of imagination. No one would recognise they were in a dream and they would just create an answer to anything they would want to know which is beyond the infinite tsukiyomi. The thing has literally no drawbacks.

>>153076633
Where's the flaw?

>>153078795
It's not real. It's an illusion.

>>153078795
Then it's not giving them what they want, it's forcing them to think that they got what they wanted.

>>153078795

It's literally just putting them in a happy dream until their body is decomposed into white goop and taken over as a slave soldier for an alien abomination.

I mean, Obito and Madara didn't KNOW that, but still

>>153078795
You could argue that it limits them to things they want at that moment but it doesn't let them mature and experience more things

Shikamaru doesn't want love in augmented dream reality and eventually in reality he marries Temari

>>153078891
They're going to feel the same sense of happiness and reward either way, and the things they experience in the dream will always turn out favourably for them, as opposed to in the real world where, more likely than not, they'd be disappointed with whatever it is they were seeking out. At best, the life they would experience in the real world would be on par with they're life in the dream.

>>153079088
>They're going to feel the same sense of happiness and reward either way
You're assuming that these are the only things that a person can want.

>>153079034
Maturity and change are natural processes and our desires adapt to these but in the scenario of living in a dream world, he really won't feel any sense of disappointment about not being able to experience different things since he can't change or mature. Or maybe he can, I'm not exactly sure how the mind works inside the tsukiyomi but even if he does eventually want different things, he'll still get them. The tsukiyomi doesn't really allow for any negative emotions unless that's what the person wants.

>>153079170
No, I'm assuming these are the things this particular person wants. Of course everyone wants different things and people may in fact not want a happy or even rewarding life. The point is that whatever someone wants out of life in terms of feelings or emotions, the tsukiyomi would be able to provide better, or at least to the same standard, as the real world. Even if we assume you are indeed right and somehow there is someone who absolutely could not be entirely fulfilled by living in an idealised dream world, they'd still be in the minority and they would still experience a better life inside the tsukiyomi then they would in a world where nearly everyone else is dead.

>>153076557
it's standard human psychology to want legitimacy. you have to be basically suicidal for an eternal fantasy dream to appeal to you

>>153079374
That means that the entire foundation of the concept is broken.

>>153076685
Heh

>>153079552
How so?

>>153079405
This only really applies before you enter the fantasy. Once they're in there, it will be real to them and any negative feelings they may have had about it will disappear.

>>153081476
It claims to give everybody everything they want but a non-negligible portion of the world will either be stuck in a barren wasteland or murdered. It's arguably rendered invalid by the very potential for desires to go beyond what it can offer.

>>153081534
I don't think there has been a legitimately presented example of what such a desire would be, and the tsukiyomi would still offer an experience that would fulfil a person's desires to the extent they could imagine it. If a person is capable of imagining a perfect reality in which they want to exist, then that could be fulfilled. Even if we assume the tsukiyomi couldn't give a person what they actually desire, if this is because the person cannot imagine what they actually desire then they'll have no way of knowing what it is they're missing out on. And the only way someone would be stuck in a barren wasteland is if the choose not to enter the tsukiyomi, which isn't really relevant to whether tsukiyomi was a good idea or not.

>>153081766
>the person cannot imagine what they actually desire then they'll have no way of knowing what it is they're missing out on
Just because you can judge whether or not something is the desired result, does not mean you can easily find out what the desired result is. Unless P = NP, but I doubt the writer of Naruto is a mathematician.

I already said the desire would be knowing properties of the real world. If you just delude somebody into thinking they got what they want, then it's no different than torturing people until they want to die, then killing them.

>>153078017
>Hidan
Reminder that Jashin is a real god who gives real immortality.

>>153078146
I think I heard something about the author confirming he would eventually starve to death, but that comment was before the War arc even started, so Hidan wass probably long dead by the end.

Can we talk about how Naruto and Sasuke, literally the only people in existence who could remove the Infinite Tsukuyomi from everyone, decided to have a fight to the death before releasing everyone? If they killed each other, or if even one of them died, Sakura and Kakashi would have had to repopulate the entire planet.
I don't see this brought up at all ever, when it really warrants mention.

>>153081899
>if you just delude somebody into thinking they got what they want, then it's no different than torturing people until they want to die, then killing them
It's completely different because they will actually get a great deal of enjoyment out of this. If anything, denying someone this would be more akin to torturing them. Just because they don't want it, doesn't make it bad for them

>>153081899
They weren't deluded into thinking they got what they want, they were promised eternal happiness and got eternal happiness.

>>153076557
Wasn't he the boke though?

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>>153076557

>>153082781
Sasuke mentioned that he figured out a way to release everyone using his Rinnegan and the power of the Tailed Beasts without needing Naruto to do so.

>>153083882
Oh good, so the only way the world would be ruined was if literal Jesus won the fight, good call Naruto.

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>>153082781
>Sakura and Kakashi would have had to repopulate the entire planet.