F/Z had >strong female characters who weren't overly

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>>152823239
Because Fate got better.

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>>152823375
My nigga.

>now

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>>152823375
First post best post.

>strong female characters who weren't overly sexualized

HA

>mature themes
No, it just had characters 10 years older than the ones in Fate/Stay Night. The themes were the fucking same, you just think they're mature because characters aren't in high school

>adult characters with interesting motives
I WANT MAGIC CUP is no an interesting motive. Since 2 people wanted the Magic Cup for the same reason (Fame) 2 people waned the Magic cup for variations of the same reason (I want to save "this girl"/I want to save "the world" and 3 of them were doing it just because they had nothing better to do

>non-adult characters that weren't half bad
You had Waver who was just you typical self insert character like Simon from Gurren Lagann.

>good fights that didn't shy away from being brutal
So did Fate.

>>152823239
>adult characters with interesting motives
I can guarantee that if these adult characters were replaced with teenage characters and were EXACTLY the same in every other aspect aside age, you would be calling this show shit.

>>152823239
Fate Zero is chuuni shit only liked by teenagers.

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>>152823239
>mfw secondaries call Gilgamesh "Archer"
>mfw secondaries call Diarmuid "Lancer"
>mfw secondaries call Iskandar "Rider"
>mfw secondaries don't distinguish between Casters
>mfw secondaries don't distinguish between Assassins

>>152823575
> HA

Saber, Irisviel, Maiya, Natalia, Solia-Ui

>No, it just had characters 10 years older than the ones in Fate/Stay Night. The themes were the fucking same

Kiritsugu having to kill his mentor and father to save innocent people, Kiritsugu having to do the same to Irisviel. Kariya's suffering, Kirei's murder of Tokiomi and Aoi's brain damage, Saber's struggle with her past and Lancelot's betrayal etc.

>You had Waver who was just you typical self insert character

had better motives and character development than expected.

>So did Fate

Besides berserker battle, F/Z had Lancer v Saber battle, Berserker v Saber, Caster v Everyone, Rider v Gilgamesh

>>152824007
Not at all, F/Z had characters with all sorts of motives. F/SN had like evil vs good with no middle ground

>>152824512
Wanna know how I know you haven't read the VN?

>>152824717
Thread is about the anime, not the VN you mongoloid

>>152824399
Waver's reason to join the war was to show his meany teacher that hard work is more important than raw talent.

You can't get more generic shounen motivations than that

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Fate/Zero had lancelot.

/thread.

If you think this shit is bad you probably like Naruto.

Isn't the Fate franchise based on a porn game?

I think Fate-Zero is the Macross Plus / Cowboy Bebop of the Fate franchise: a pretty unique spinoff that people who aren't fans of the series / medium found interesting.

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>>152823239
>>strong female characters who weren't overly sexualized

>>152825129
Show me a F/Z woman who was basically tits on legs? You can't

>>152825259
Penis worms?

>>152825259
That's because F/Z was a sausagefest

>>152825259
Female Assasin

>>152823239
That's merit from urobuchi, and is the reason because I never put F/Z and SN in the same league

I just don't get how threads like this are still popping up in the year 2017. How do unironic Zerofags still exist?

>>152823239
>strong female characters
No, it has one female strong character, Saber. All the other women had no agenda of their own and were passive victims to the men's actions. I guess Kerry's teacher was another exception but her only purpose in the story was dying to give Kerry mainpain so it's not like she's a great character either.

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>>152823239


Pretty confident the majority of people that shill F/Z are either fujo's or under the age 18.

It's a good part of the series. It's not the fucking bees knees either. Fate has always had lewd. There was rape worms in F/Z and lolis.

>>152824512
>>152825024
>>152823239
If you can't comprehend how deep and elegant is FSN you should just fuck off to >>>/co/ and keep discussing your naruto shit instead of coming here just to say a line of a meaningless effort to try and take down an masterpiece of modern literature such as Fate Stay Night.

Leave the advanced discussion of subtext and symbolism to those of us who have done the requisite study to understand Fate/stay night - there are a number of intelligent responses that completely cripple your amateur analysis of Nasu's work

Nasu crafted not a game, not a "story", but a universe. It's every bit as detailed, every bit as supple and responsive as ours. It's a moving Sistine Chapel ceiling. There are thousands of themes seamlessly woven together. And like any well-designed instrument, "Fate/stay night" APPEARS to be simple.

You fucks understand that Stay Night came out first, right?

>>152825259
>tits on legs
So THAT'S what /a/ thinks of women.

>>152824399
>Saber
OH GOD WHY CAN'T I STOP JOBBING AND BEING BULLIED

>Irisviel
I exist to make this scenario tragic. Besides that I enjoy long periods of not doing anything and taking knives to the gut

>Maiya
A literal Cuckquen.

>Natalia
I exist to die and make Kiritsugu's life more tragic

>Solia-Ui
I'm a slut who lets my sluttiness get me killed because I fall in love with a literal magic craft doll

>Kiritsugu's story
Life sucks, I grow numb to it to the point where I get rused into thinking a magic cup can grant a wish in a way other than the one way I think it can be granted

>Kariya
Shit, I'm stuck with my cartoonishly evil family because my cartoonishly stupid sold his daughter to them. '

>Kirei
The only thing I feel is arousal to suffering

>Tokiomi and Aoi
I think I'm smart but I'm actually an idiot and shit maybe marrying a guy with no morals was a bad idea

>Saber
I tried to be too perfect and the second strongest knight in my army was a horny bastard who was only kept in check by someone I sent searching for a grail. WHAT COULD GO WRONG

>Waver
Literal Shonen Protagonist.

>Battles
Shirou vs Gil. Saber vs Gil. Any Hercules fight. Lancer vs Archer. Lancer vs Kirei. Most Medusa fights. Kirei vs Shirou HF. True Assasin vs Kirei.

What I'm seeing is that you only watched UBW anime.

>>152825975
The rape worms and lolis weren't sexualized though. The rape worms weren't played up for fetishists. They're plot rape worms.

So I am not the only one to think fate/zero is superior to fate/stay night (UWB)


Every character had development in F/zero and the designs were way more original.

Kotomine Kirei and gil is good in fate/stay too but the other characters are shit there.

"muh i Don't Want anyone to get killed"

Fate/zero is for seinen people and fate/stay night is like shonen

>>152825641
>all the other women had no agenda of their own and were passive victims to the men's actions
Sounds pretty realistic to me.

>>152826185
Is this a pasta?

>>152826386
Yeah but F/SN is inferior to F/Z

>>152827123
When will secondaries ever learn?

>>152827461
The only secondaries that exist are people who watched fate/stay night before fate/zero when they knew zero was out

>>152823521
they ruined Illya

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>>152827090
>The rape worms and lolis weren't sexualized though.
>They're plot rape worms.

Nice may-mays.

>>152823239
>overly sexualized
Kill yourself

it was terrible
butcher is terrible
would rather read hours of nasu sex scenes than anything from him

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>>152826922
that seems like it took a lot of work, youve earned this response from me sendpai

>>152823239
F/Z had a plot, the rest of the Fate series had retardation.

>>152823239
Sexualizing women only makes it better. If you got a problem with that, go back to the grimderp western media and take your Reddit spacing with you.

>>152830814
>I only like haremshit
Cuck

>>152830896
TRU

>>152823239
>implying Zero was mature

>>152830896
I like everything that's not
>woe is me I got muh moral dilemmas
and
>dude womyn and shitbloods are ppl too xD

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zero babbies are delusional as always

>>152823521
>Miyu doesn't even acknowledge your existence, absolutely focused on Illya
>Illya sees you, but she doesn't think much of you. Just slight disgust and pity.
>Kuro is disappointed and thinks to herself that she's seen better

>>152826185
>Be king of Britain
>Rule over your subjects for many years
>Fight in many battles
>Very experienced adult
>Fall madly in love with naive Jap kid in middle school

Yes. Very good writing.

>>152830946
Shows are worse with women in it you literal retard.

>>152831022
>Be the one who created vampires
>Live for a long time
>Fight many battles
>Extremely experienced with the world
>Fall madly in love with Jap kid in high school
Tsukihime and Fate are jokes.

>>152831045
Re-read the post.

>>152831045
There is a difference between lack of women and pandering to fujoshits. FZ is the later.

>>152831007
>FZ
>greatest cool
>other typeshit
>no greatest cool
uhhhhhhhhhhm
fatebabs?

>>152831606
Team Caster was the worst part of Zero.

The recent anime adaptation of UBW seems to be the most mature and best take on this entire series.
And it's literally a shounen anime with a schoolboy protag.

No seriously, outside of the cartoonishly retarded blue haired dude, the thing is an excellent deconstruction of the typical shounen and shows how deeply broken a shounen hero would have to be to work in a semi realistic(grim derp)universe.
It had well written women of all kinds who I would also sink all nine inches into(cept for saber, she's a canon futa)
And it had the correct use of and right amount of saber. Very little and only when the plot absolutely demanded it or she had someone to fight.

>>152831266
>Extremely experienced with the world
arcueid is very specifically NOT this. bitch doesn't even know how to eat a burger

>>152831749
>copying and pasting MAL reviews
You need to go back.

>>152831749
>"""Mature"""
Maybe if you're twelve.

>>152831852
Doing what now?

>>152831886
If you think maturity is gore over the top violence and toned down or over the top sexuality along with ridiculously grim subject matter then you are a literal child.

Exploration of deeply held beliefs emotions reacting to things in a logical civilized manner. That is maturity.

You're confusing mature subject matter with mature thought and action.

>>152831749
Fuck off. Nobody is going to read your fucking cringeworthy blogposts you retarded sperg.

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A friendly reminder that we could have had a decent urban fantasy story without genderbent mythological and historical figures if Nasu wasn't a hack afraid that the lack of sex and male protagonists to self-insert in would stop the otakus from buying it.

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>>152823375
>>152823419

>>152831992
Wow you must be like an intellectual or something.

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>>152823521
>what if we took a serious VN
>then, what if we took some random, unimportant side character...
>and then, what if we made her, and all her irrelevant friends lesbians
>prisma illya

a complete insult to the Fate franchise.

>>152832027
You did you embarassingly transparent cunt.

>>152832085
The fuck are you on a bout?

>>152832071
I know it's easy to think the grass s always greener on the other side, but Proto is pure trash. Just take FSN, genderswap some characters, add some more rules, replace swordboy with the blandest least interesting character ever and also self insert for fujoshits, and replace Kirei with some homo clown.

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>>152831992
>an anime based on a literal porn game that people fap to is intellectual now

>>152824126
>calling character in way he was called in first appearance in original is wrong

>>152832199
Why do normalfags use "porn" to talk down to things?

>>152832191
both me :^)

>>152832269
All me.

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>>152832180
>what if we took a serious VN
>reused most of it's characters and themes, but dumb them down a few notches
>and then filled the rest in with naruto-tier fight scenes where two people wank over their power level and special techniques until someone falls over

fate itself is an insult on type moon that killed it while it was stillborn, their first game as a real company and it's bascially tsukihime/KnK thrown into a blender and mixed with lots and made softer to appeal to generic otaku shiteater crowd to make money

>>152832256
Why do normalfags complain about lack of grimderp in their media?

>>152832298
Because grimdark shit makes them feel like mature adults.

>>152831007
Shirou vs black berserker was so dissapointing, just fuck it, let's have him job as fast as we can

>>152832199
Oh my god.
You need to be told when to think about something.
To find value in something.

Pardon the upcoming irony but,
I need you to think about that shit for a second.

>>152832294
>a serious VN
>no naruto tier fight scenes where people wank over their power levels and special techniques
Fatefags everyone.

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>>152832192
We may never know. There's barely anything about Prototype except a 15 minute trailer and some vague scene outlines. We don't even know who three of the masters and two of the servants are.

>>152832368
And I need you to relocate yourself back to r/anime.

>>152832199
Do you mean a erotic tale can't be intellectual? Have you heard of the 120 days of Sodome?

>>152831007
Where the fuck did that Diarmuid and Seiba holding hands picture come from, I don't recall this from the anime
>>152832471
[Scat flashbacks]

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>>152825975
And yet the weird thing about Fate is that the more mainstream it's become the more blatant Type-Moon's been about pandering to otaku, even though they have the leeway not to bother anymore. With FSN and Tsukihime it's like the sex scenes making up a fraction of each game were included to sell copies and they've long been been treated as a joke by the fanbase instead of being major draw. Kara no Kyoukai had none at all. Now we have loli Jack the Ripper and shit.

>Pretty confident the majority of people that shill F/Z are either fujo's or under the age 18

Fate/Zero was Fate's concept with all the bullshit stripped away. No harem antics, high school students from the same high school, or dates in the middle of a death match.

>>152832554
Can you just fuck off already?

>>152832471
Sade was an edgelord. Use something like Carmila as an example instead, it is more fitting.

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>>152823239
>Kiritsugu
>Interesting motive
>Mature
>>>/Out/

>>152832554
Fate was a coming of age story of a boy and his ideals, with the HGW as a means to advance the plot. Having the main focus be the HGW is the reason all the spinoffs, including Zero, are so shit.

>>152832595
>already
>mark new IP just triggered

>>152832649
Shirou's ideals weren't the problem; Kiritsugu, Kariya, Saber, Tokiomi, all of them had something similar things going on. It's all of the other extraneous BS I mentioned that causes people to rank Zero over FSN.

>>152832705
Who are you quoting?

>>152832545
Einzbern Consultation Room, of you liked Carnival Phantasm then you would already know what it is.

>>152831749
>Very little and only when the plot absolutely demanded it or she had someone to fight.
that's because it's adapted from the UBW route

>>152832633
t. Saber

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>>152832737
>No harem antics, high school students from the same high school, or dates in the middle of a death match.
>mature anime for mature individuals such as myself
You are the textbook definition of the Zerobaby.

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>>152823239
F/Z had

>An entire cast full of idiots

>Edge for the sake of being edgy

>Failed in it's role as a prequel

>Half ass mature themes

>>152832298
>>152832328
they actually don't. why else do you think they hated Batman v. Superman and love the Avengers?

>>152823239
F/Z just didn't have fun. At all. No teenagers, no loli, no real bantz besides Waver. It was edgy for the sake of being DEEP and MATURR and only idiots fall for that shit.

If you want deep and mature why not read a fucking book?

>>152832962
Because it was shit?

>>152832962
I assume it's the underage ones who like the grimdark "mature" shit because they think it makes them more adult, which is the case for Zerofags.

>>152832407
>>>/v/

>>152832962
Capeshit is so retarded.

>>152832649
what's HGW?

>>152833187
Helium Gas Waves

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>Zero
>strong female characters

>>152832910
>textbook definition of a Zerobaby

Someone who read FSN several years before Zero was translated? Zero simply had all of the shit that I, and apparently a large number of people, expected to find coming into the series and none of the bad stuff that you greentexted.

>>152833235
So you're a fujoshi?

>>152832986
Fate/Zero was a book. And just because content found in other literature is more "DEEP and MATURR" doesn't mean you can't appreciate it when you get some of it in a light novel.

>mature seinen anime for mature seinen gentlemen such as myself
I'm only watching it because after finishing Fate I'm tired as fuck of Tohsaka

>>152832944
Lancer's master was a mistake. So was Zero Caster

>>152833226

Are there any strong female characters in Fate at all?

>>152826185
Big Yud, plz.

>>152833066
Try harder outsider

>>152833353
>tfw get that reference
kek

I want to write a Yud-style fanfic set in Nasuverse one day.

>>152832294
>Tsukihime
>Serious
Oh Anon. KnK is only good thing done by TM

>>152833351
Strong by what definition?

>>152833344
>So was Zero Caster
And his master

And the main character as well was a mistake

>>152833351
Depends how strong you want them, but for starters I'd say Saber is one anywhere other than in zero.

>>152833378
Okay, I'll give it another go
>>>/pol/

>>152833288
>Everyone who likes Urobuchi is a fujoshi
Like it or not, Urobuchi made anime great again.

>>152833417

Character. Agency. Relevance to the plot. Not existing to be a prize or trophy to someone else. Things that actually matter.

>>152833506
When did I mention Butcher, you autist?

>>152833351
Zero Saber for one

>>152833533
t. FSNfag

>>152833521
Then read the VN and come up with your own answer.

>>152833521
So Rin from Stay night?

>>152833565
>read the VN
such a meme response
plot twist: its shit

>>152833560
What else would one be if they are a Fatefag?
>t.
Kill yourself you crossboarding subhuman.

>>152833615
>ask a question that you can easily figure out yourself
>starting crying "MEME MEME MEME!" when told to do so
How is that autism going?

>>152832649
>Having the main focus be the HGW
But in reality only Zero and SF did that. Apocrypha was retarded retail of Fate, Prisma is lolifest which panders towards pedos and lately shiroufags. Extra changes hgw idea to arena battles and has (you) as the master of sluts who just want to suck your dick. And GO takes all of the dumb things and multiplies them by eleven and then adds stupidly large scale and inconsistencies in lore.

>>152833620
>crossboarder
can we stop with this meme?
/we/ were obviously invaded in the last several months by rude ass faggots, probably from /v/
maybe it was the influx of anime-adaptation musous announced, I don't know

>>152833505
>muh /pol/ bogeyman
Wrong again, autismo

>>152833351
Altera

>>152833612
No, she's tsundere otaku bait pandering bullshit.

>>152833708
>Extra changes hgw idea to arena battles and has (you) as the master of sluts who just want to suck your dick
And yet Hakuno's character arc is better than anything in Zero. Sad.

>>152833533
I'm the original poster. Randomly mentioning fujoshi was so dumb that I didn't even bother to justify it with a reply.

>No harem antics, high school students from the same high school, or dates in the middle of a death match.

Nothing to do with fujos.

>>152833756
this
she's only tolerable in small doses

You know, I had a thought today. Maybe the grail gender swaps heroes every now and then to help further hide their identity.

>>152833779
That's a list of things you didn't want, it has nothing to do with what you wanted, unless your only criteria for liking something is it not having anything you dislike. And how is bringing up fujoshi when talking about a show meant to pander to them random?

>>152833521
Then she'd be pointless. If I wanted that shit, I'd watch Game of Cunts

>>152833756
Why?

>>152833914
Because buzzords are fun.

>>152833949
I mean, why do you think she's all those things? based off the original thing about "What makes a strong female" character she fits the bill for 99% of it.

>>152823239
I want all TMfags to fuck off.

>>152834007
But anon, it's never good enough. Women are always oppressed, doubly so when they're not.

>>152832737
Dude, Shirous ideas and how he can stand by them in the face of the fucked up world he lives in is both an unintended true deconstruction of the shounen hero archetype( and even the tsunder archetype with rin )is the only interesting thing in Fate.

Nothing else from the series is as good and meaty as that. The rest is fairly bog standard shounen and seinen stuff with some random gay dickworm and futa pandering thrown in there.

>>152834050
You're replying to a Zerobabby who thinks the appeal of Fate is a 'serious death match'

>>152832762
And?
That doesn't change anything.
She's literally a less marketable and likeable pikachu.

>>152833351
Rin and Caster from UBW.

If this thread manages to convince me that there's strong female characters in Fate, I'll stop consuming Nasushit forever.

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>>152833351

>>152834267
Discount Saber.

>>152833889
>a show meant to pander to them

Why? Because it had a primarily male cast? Fate/Zero was written as an spin-off for FSN fans; it was written for the same age and sex demographic as FSN.

>>152834050
FSN really only had Shirou and Archer, with many of the other combatants like Kuzuki and Shinji being flat and peripheral. Fate/Zero focused on an array of diverse viewpoints while still doing a great job with Kiritsugu's ideological conflict as well.

>>152834031
I want VNfags to fuck off.

Get a load of this guy

Its a fucking eroge and always has been. Lolis are nothing special and at keast fate girls not have clothes on them

Fate Zero was written by a good author and not somebody who made an eroge game.

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>>152834354
I hate to break it to you but they both hail from the eroge industry, that's how they met in the first place. Nasu at least started out writing regular novels while Urobuchi was a porn game scenarist from the get go.

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>>152834354
but urobouchi did make an eroge game

>>152834354
You do know that Gen AND Nasu both wrote Eroge. Saya, Requiem for the Phantoms, and Kikokugai were Gen's. I think he might've done Django and Demonbane 2 also.

>>152834354
>nu-/a/

>>152834475
>>152834477
>>152834484
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw2sex1mJNI

>>152823239
>non-adult characters that weren't half bad

Bull fucking shit. The Rin and Sakura scenes were unnecessary.

>>152834563
Are you literally a Redditor?

Because holy fuck you dumb fag, lurk more.

>>152834320
Len and Ilya existed, but how nu-Fate uses lolis is dumb. Loli Jack the Ripper will never stop being dumb, while the other two fit organically into the setting for something other than pandering just fine.

>>152834563
Put on a trip so I can filter your dumb ass.

>>152833430
Kiritsugu's brand of "heroism" was dumb but he was okay for an MC

>>152834916
Are you a fan of Shadow the Hedgehog as well?

>>152834673
Saber at some point being a futa is dumber than loli Jack

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>>152834475

We should probably also point out that the primary plot of Kikokugai revolves around a loli imouto.

>>152835007
Everyone you love being turned into zombies by your edgy magic science dad would make you Shadow the Edgehog too

>>152835010
In a world where magic exists, how is using it to give someone a dick dumb?

>>152835007
>sonicshadowtoiletfusion.png

>>152835071
I'm not that autistic, so no it wouldn't.

>>152835007

I'm a fan of Coldsteel. Does that count?

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>>152834696
you're mean

>>152835123
That's even better.

>>152835131
Eat shit.

>>152835131
Are you pretending to be retarded or did you actually not know that?

>>152823239
>strong female characters who weren't overly sexualized
You like that? Well, have some Scathach and ancient prostitute Rin and mature busty Saber! Have some more powerlevels too. Motherfucking Solomon and all that stuff.

>>152835306
was he born on a monday?

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>>152835010
No. No it's not; at least Saber became a futa through literal magic. How much sillier is that than Merlin transforming Arthur into anything else? Just the design alone for Jack would be really fucking dumb for any character even if she wasn't supposed to be Jack the Ripper.

>>152832554
Why is that Saber almost naked?

>>152835425

She wants everyone to see her perfect naked body.

>>152835425
Nero pandering and she got a power up from the Gods thanks to Photon Ray. Also Venus is perfect for her since she's after Hakuno.

>>152835425
Lowest common denominator pandering

>>152835007
Shadow is an anthropomorphic hedgehog in a franchise that never had any business taking itself seriously.

>zero caster
>ryonusuke
>kiritsugu

You literally seem to think that any "edgy," evil, or even morally ambiguous character is bad. Even if that character is literally Gilles de Rais.

>>152835619
>You literally seem to think that any "edgy," evil, or even morally ambiguous character is bad
Not at all, the 3 you listed are terrible though. There are good "edgy" or "evil" characters, like Kirei or Manjew.

>>152823239
>strong female characters who weren't overly sexualized

>good fights that didn't shy away from being brutal

>interesting motives

This has got to be bait

>>152824399

>Lancer v Saber,

Neither would shut the fuck up and they traded maybe a dozen or so strikes. Their second duel wasn't even a duel and was just a backdrop to Kiritsugu edgelording

> Berserker v Saber,

What battle? The one that was completely cut from the adaptation?

>Caster v Everyone,

Barely even remember that one

>Rider v Gilgamesh

More of a character moment than an actual fight you can watch and enjoy.

Guys, is it okay to jump into Fate Zero given that I roughly know the events of Fate up until Gilgamesh shows up?

I was gonna power through the UBW anime but Rin just seems really insufferable right now so I think I need to take a break from this storyline

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>>152836766
Kill yourself. What would compel you to shitpost like this?

>>152836815
I was being serious, nigger

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>>152836766
Rin will never get less insufferable.
You could be referring to the very first episode for all it matters. She is just terrible.
Honestly, do not even bother with Zero either. It is just background info from Nasu's shit writing filtered through Butcher's shit writing.

>>152825024
>Lancelot
>The biggest asshole in RtoK

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>>152823239
ALRIGHT FUCKERS I'M HERE TO SETTLE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.

Heaven's Feel>UBW>Fate
Saber>Rin>Sakura

Spinoffs need not apply, but for reference Zero was better than all of those, H/A is somewhere between UBW and Fate, and Carnival Phantasm has a big powergap after Heaven's Feel. Tsukihime was generic chuuni shit that had Nasu's style but none of the originality he developed later.

That being said,
Arc>Ciel>>Sacchin>Akiha>Maid Twins

Sojuurou is the best male cast member. Kotomine is the best character of all.

>>152836766
Rin is always insufferable I liked it when in Extra it gave you the option to kill her.

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>>152837129
>maids last
>Ciel over anyone

>>152837181
The maid/submissive homebody archetype is my least favorite, and Kohaku was the biggest sin of a route since Shitzune.

Did Nasu ever explain why Tsukihime/Fate protagonist are Japanese highschool boys instead of grown rational men?

>>152837552
Gee, I don't know, why don't you go ask few other author's in history that wrote their protagonist in that age range?
>rational
>Let's make the characters who are supposed to be a psychopath and a sociopath rational

>>152837552
weak bait

>>152837552
Self-insert MC and sales.
As >>152832071 pointed out, original MC was a female and Saber was actually male Arthur, but both were changed because your average Nip otaku will not be willing to play as a female in a porn game. Instead of, I dunno, not writing a setting with hamfisted sex elements to it, he sold out instead.

>>152834304
>Fate/Zero focused on an array of diverse viewpoints
And did so with pathetic shallowness. Almost all the ones even remotely interesting were set in stone by Fate/Stay Night. In fact 90% of everything good about Fate/Zero just came from Fate/Stay Night. Urobucchi's only novel and good contribution to the franchise through F/Z was Waver, who serves as a nice counterpoint to all the old, aristocratic magi that dominate the series with their absurdly broken magic. Notice too that Waver is the only character that Urobucchi invented that still sees regular appearances in the multiverse. There's a reason for that.

>>152831756
Let's try with Ciel-senpai then:

>Be normal girl
>End up immortal because a vampire tried to reincarnate through you but shit hot the fan so your soul and his are identical enough for the world to get confused
>Live for a fucklong time killing vampires and shit as a nun for the church
>Develop a cosplay fetish
>Fall in love with a Jap highschool kid with murder-eyes
>Possibly end up in a three way between the source of your immortality and the kid because Nasu snapped his fingers and said "parallel worlds lol"
Are highschool Jap selfinserts the ultimate alphas?

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>>152836766
rin gets better in the middle of UBW before she gets a bit worse again.

though she is humbled towards the end and her scenes with Lancer are head over heels above anything she has with Archer or Shirou.

I am now three episodes into Fate Zero so I can't say how that will hold up, but I can actually say that if you liked the actual Grail War component of UBW, the first three episodes of Zero really provide on that point and really hype up the strengths of Fate, being the mythology and workings of the Grail war, and not high school drama.

There's a lot of Servant and Master interaction with a lot more viewpoints than UBW, though Saber is still a boring snoozefest.

though the writing isn't anything to get worked up about so far, certainly does a better job at introducing the situation than UBW does, and knows how to build tension.


that said, Waver would be just another anime protag without Rider.

>>152837181
You could have had a completely correct post if you just stopped at the maids

Ciel a best, BEST

>>152838721
Curryfucker.

>>152825024
lancelot is a good berserker, but the Irish Child of Light is the best Lancer.

he fucking sucks as a Caster though, who the hell thought this was a good idea in Grand Diarrhea

>>152838758
Try again anon

>>152826922
I didn't knew we were in the "guess the poorly described show" thread.

>>152838795
You know it's the same Cu, right?

>>152825443
good fiction tends to be when it's in written form and the presence of tits on screen isn't taken into account.

>>152838828
Currynigger.

>>152823239
>Why is it all lolis and scantily clad women now?
Because Urobochi sold his soul to Nasu and his shit taste pandering tendencies.

>>152838884
Somehow you managed to go in the opposite direction. I'll dive you a hint

I'm an amerifat

>>152838963
Ciel a shit. End of the story.

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>>152823239
>strong female characters who weren't overly sexualized
>mature themes
>adult characters with interesting motives
>non-adult characters that weren't half bad
>good fights that didn't shy away from being brutal

>>152838844
Zero Lancer is Diarmund or whatev
and SN Lancer is Cu.

GO Caster is also Cu, and his character is horribly suited or a Fate Caster, I think it's a damn shame too since in GO they had the chance to finally give him some spotlight in combat and reduced him to throwing glowing letters.

>>152838998

That drills has the wrong hair colour.

>>152825024
Is Melvin still at /fgog/? He'd likely start spewing "kekacock" if he was here.

>>152839026
Lance Cu and Caster Cu are literally the same person, except one primarily uses Gae Bolg and the other runes. I don't understand why Caster Cu upsets you.

>>152839105
He's upset because Caster Cu wasn't a jobber.

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>>152833351

>>152839152

Psycho Lesbian Gudako is the best thing to come out of GO.

>>152823239
My dude, you've just triggered all the VN cancerous fags.

Now they will impale you for not knowing that Shirou is the real MC of the Fate series, and that Zero was merely an addition.

But in all seriousness, Zero was made after F/SN. Nasu had learned from many of his mistakes.

>>152839105
yes I'm aware it's the same person, ans that upsets me, because instead of a spear twirling angry irishman, we get a smug cunt in a bath robe throwing letters.

and don't go saying Gae Bolg wasn't the greatest NP in fate.

>>152834354
Nasu wrote the F/Z outline for Urobuchi, with basically all scenarios decided

>>152839305
Nasu decided what's happening but Urobutcher decided how it's happening.

and that's the major difference.

>>152839285
Hmm, I like Cu for being Cu, whether he's twirling around a lance, throwing letters or fishing isn't important, but to each their own I guess.

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>>152839349
It was still mostly Nasu's work. The character, the plot, the names, the designs you name it. Urobuchi was basically there for the execution only.

Still though, Fate Zero turned out objectively better than F/SN in both characters and plot.

>>152838707
>>152839496
dumb frogposters

>>152839496
>objectively
I don't think you know what that word means anon.

>>152838987
That sure is an incorrect opinion, but it's your God given right to be wrong and I'm glad to see you're using it to its fullest extent

>>152839570
This isn't about right and wrong, this is about you having shit taste.

>>152839358
yeah I like him too, but having his VA, which I adored as Lancer, stand around with a staff and protecting three clowns with silly clothes kinda put me off. It's wasted potential and makes me restless.

>>152839496
Yes I get that, that's what I'm saying, Urobuchis exectution is what divides SN from Zero.

Though Zero greatly profits from not being structured like a VN.

>>152839605
Then enlighten me good sir, what is it about Ciel that is a hallmark for shit taste?

>>152839806
She's ugly, smelly, and old.

>>152839707
Well in his lore he's also skilled with runes, so being a caster makes sense. And casters tend to wear robes, so there's that. I never liked his blue spandex as a lancer, but I do prefer him fighting as one.

>>152823239
>>strong female characters who weren't overly sexualized
This is supposed to be a good thing?

>>152839884
Noted. Of the 3 excuses you've posted though tho only one that is even remotely correct is the "old" part, and if that works for lolishit it can work for Ciel-senpai

>>152839892
he did do the Rune stuff in UBW too. but it was very limited and more of a gimmick.

I didn't like the blue suit at first but it kinda grew on me, it looks alright in UBW high quality shots in any case.

he could be a caster but still primarily use his spear in combat, similar to how shirou is an archer but uses his blades and shield in combat. It's just that the character struck me as very energetic, and someone who's not afraid to get up close and personal with anyone.

Though I digress, it's only Grand Order, so it's not much of a loss.

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>>152840120
Pic related, ugly. And she eats too much curry, so she smells like it and therefore she smells like India.

>>152840296
I'll admit that her original design is better, but the redesign isn't bad, just kinda saberfacey.

Also
>2D
>Having a smell

And for that matter

>Not bathing and brushing your teeth regularly

Sounds pretty close to projection there anon. Are you sure you're not the pajeet?

>>152840296
her face to forehead ratio seems off.

>>152840296

Her boobs are too small. She's supposed to be just as stacked as Sakura, but she definitely lacks Sakura's massive tits there.

>>152837129
Patrician taste, I was starting to lose hope

>>152840248
Well he did use his staff as a kind of spear a few times, plus he says that he'd rather be a lancer than a caster, so he definitely likes being a lancer more. What's important is they didn't change his personality, he's still smug Cu which was good.

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>>152823239
>There are still faggots that believe a porn game has better writing than the masterpiece that is Zero.

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>>152831007

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>>152842117
>Zero
>masterpiece

>>152823239
Kill yourself. Seriously.