Who was the best Naruto villain and why was it Orochimaru? >Got

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I want to kiss him.

>>152200018
Truly the greatest thing to crawl out of this goddamn series.

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>>152200018
Eh, Pain was better.

>>152200018
That's how you do it, just be too strong to beat and then later help out the good guys one or two times and everything is suddenly forgotten.

>>152200211
only for the meme face

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>>152200366
It wasn't the fact that he was too strong, though he is probably one of the strongest characters in the series even by the end.

It's the fact that the fucker is impossible to kill.

>>152200018
Pretty much all of the villains in Naruto were good in some way. Aside from Madara and Obito, they were trash.

>>152200018
He won two fights in the entire series. And he ended up a cripple after one of those, even though he had every advantage and was fighting a guy who was almost twice his age. And the other fight was against preteen kids.

>>152200729
he also mastered a whole shit ton of secret jutsus. and he had a battle against the other two sanin, remember.

>>152200684
What was Madara's motivation anyway? Just put the whole world into coma until everybody dies? Then what? What was his end game?
>>152200684
Also this. Whole Akatsuki, Obito aside, was very entertaining.

Naruto in general was entertaining when it wasn't about it's protagonists.

>>152200769
>he had a battle against the other two sanin
Which he didn't win.

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1. Pain
2. Zabuza
3. Itachi

>>152200851
>Zabuza
don't confuse a good moment with a mediocre villain

>>152200974
Zabuza was great. As an introductory villain to the series, you can't get much better. His fight with Kakashi is still one of the best in the anime.

Are we really having this thread?

Is 2017 years enough to have threads about naeruto villains powerlevels?

Hiroshima was a mistake

>>152200789
>What was Madara's motivation anyway? Just put the whole world into coma until everybody dies? Then what? What was his end game?
Madara's motivation was to save everyone from a lifetime of suffering. In this coma they would be able to live their greatest of dreams, without failure and life a life of happiness that they all sought and them become one with the chakra tree. Mind you this is from someone who experienced this suffering over and over again through wars and the loss of his family. He was tired of how it just kept repeating with no one wanting to fix the actual problem.

>>152201169
I see, so he really just wanted to ''help'' everybody. But, what after that? Wouldn't everyone just become white Zetsus?

>>152201169
Putting everyone in a fake dreamland doesn't sound like a proper solution to the problem. Keeping all of humanity in a perpetual coma would only result in extinction, making it a much worse problem than the one Madara wanted to solve. The man was simply deluded.

>>152201205
I believe their chakra was just going to be consumed and return to it's origin point -- the tree itself.

>>152201264
It wasn't a perpetual coma, iirc. It was very much temporary until their chakra was sucked up. Well it literally is extinction, but for him the logic was, again, that death was saving them from perpetual suffering.

>>152201478
Was it ever explained how he turned into Kaguya? Everybody knows it was an asspull, but did the writer ever attempt to explain why that happened?

Also, he is a retard. ''I'm going to kill everyone faster so they can't kill themselves slowly''.

Remember when Hakus' bloodline was supposed to be the fastest? Goodtimes.

>>152201983
When you look at it in such a reductive way, of course it would seem absurd.

I'm not too sure about Kaguya. We saw Madara "create" Black Zetsu and call him his will but he said he is Kaguyas. I don't know how but I guess we just had to accept it. I suppose all the huge chakra concentrated within the tree and within Madara, mixed with what I suppose was a faint trace of Kaguya in Black Zetsu was enough for her to recreate herself. That's the only explanation I can come up with. I don't remember it being outright explained.

>>152200211
Nagato was great, but he was kind of a cuck.

>>152203231
All the great villains of fiction are cucks.

>>152203231
>Cucked by best friend
>Cucked by Madara Cosplayer
>Cucked by Madara
>Cucked by Moon Princess
Being Nagato is suffering

Member early Naruto? I member

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>>152203511

>>152200211
but he's dead isn't he? Orochimaru did just as bad or even worse things and is now living under government protection.

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The Sasuke retrieval arc is better than any shippuden arc

>>152203650
Nobody dies in fanon.

>>152203464
He wasn't kidding about his pain

>>152202281
We're supposed to just believe Black Zetsu was just waiting and watching Madara, a promising candidate, for the opportune moment.

>>152203650
Don't forget that it seems like he has switched his body again and no one seems to care

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>>152200366
He's not even that strong relatively speaking, which is funny. He min-maxed so hard he broke the game and became immortal, so now he has nothing to do except creep on successive generations. He's already started by creating his own little snek abomination to harass nardo and sauce's kids

He's achieved a level of immortality where he simply no longer has to give a fuck. He's one of the best characters in nurudu even to the day which is a fucking miracle in and of itself

>>152200974
I genuinely can't remember what his motivation was. Be an asshole and get paid while raising a sexually confused kid for a ninja?

>>152203792
I think he cloned his own this time. He can do that now.

>>152203650
Darth Vader is dead and he's the best villain in Star Wars.

>>152204500
He might be but that whiny beta cuck Anakin sure isn't

>>152204595
Well, yeah. Lucas is a retard.

>>152204595
Which is why Tobi was vastly superior to Obito

>>152204985
And Disney is run by PC-loving focus group test-using Jews so Star Wars is fucked no matter what at this point

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>>152200211
Obito > Orochimaru > Pain >>>>> Madara

Orochimaru had hidden depths and was pretty much right about everything; if Jiraiya had killed Nagato like he said to he'd still be alive, and of course he's the one who ended up outliving every one of his comrades; the guys not even so much evil as much as he's insanely pragmatic. Nagato had a sob story instead of a character; he's simple, easy to understand, but not in a magnificent bastard sort of way. Madara was a massive Gary Stu and Kaguya was more of a boss fight that suddenly appeared than she was a character.

>>152205248
>Nagato had a sob story instead of a character
No, that would be Obito. He had an even more hammy sob story than Nagato, but his motivation is 1000000x worse. Obito is legit Broly-tier in terms of dumb reasons for being a villain.

He's just as bad as Madara, if not worse.

>>152203231
There was no indication he had the hots for Konan.

>>152205248
>Nagato had a sob story instead of a character
And Obito had the exact same sob story except with more cuck thrown in and a retarded motive that didn't even make sense. Nagato wanted to use the tailed beasts as nukes to hold the world hostage and force everyone to make peace or die.

Obito wanted to throw everyone in a dream world because his stupid teammate died

>>152205440
Obito was filled with contradiction, complex relationships, and attempts to delude himself to the point that even he wasn't entirely aware of why he really did the shit he did. There are actually things to discuss about Obito's character. You can summarize Nagato's in one sentence and catch everything.

>>152200729
>lose an arm
>cripple
>fought against someone twice as wise and with twice the amount of jutsu's
>preteen kids with plot armour

>>152200018
woulda been real funny if he ended up with Tsunade too

>>152200018
It was obviously Obito.

Started a world war over a loli, and fucked her in the afterlife.

he literally got away with everything

how does justice work in naruto?

>>152205546
>You can summarize Nagato's in one sentence and catch everything.
You can sum up Obito's in one word: Rin.

Having no backstory at all would have been better than that garbage.

>>152205592
Power is everything. Nobody wants to fuck with the immortal futa scientist.

As someone who actively hates Naruto for it's plot, characters and everything it represents I have to say Obito Uchiha is one of the most interesting and enjoyable villains in anime history

>>152205510
Why do you think he chose Yahiko's body?

>>152205735
Then you haven't watched much anime.

>>152200018
That's nice. But can he beat Madara Uchiha?

>>152206071
>Oro: Alive
>Madara: Dead
Seems he already did.

>>152206071
Orochi is literally ninja Batman.

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>>152205692
Obito is about more than just Rin. That one look of self-loathing in response to Kakashi's disappointment said more about his character than the entirety of Nagato's monologue.

It's rare to find an anime villain with so many layers.

>>152206071
Orochimaru was pure defensive when fighting a 4 tailed Kyuubi meanwhile Madara literally took a beating from every bijuu at once, losing only an arm before he walks it off and captures every single one of them in one fell swoop.

>>152206202
>You don't have to end up like me
A little too fucking late for that don't you think? Goddamn the entire war arc made me hate Kakashi

>>152206202
No, it didn't. You have really low standards in villains if that's the case. He might've said he's doing it for more than just Rin, yet he never, ever shut the fuck up about her, she was all he ever talked about. Obito was literally defined by his boner for a dead girl.

Sorry, but Obito is trash. Nagato's better by leaps and bounds but that isn't saying much. The only villains who can conceivably be considered worse are Madara and Kaguya.

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>>152200018
Orochimaru is actually a kinda good character and villain in a manga full of mediocre (main) villains at best.
Pain and Obito were sob stories. Madara was too Mary Stu and his plan convulted. And Kaguya was shit, we all know it.
Almost all other Akatsuki Members are actually okay too, but besides their fights (mostly good fights mind you, except poor Deidara who got cucked) they don't really have much to compete against Snekman.

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>>152204309
>This picture

>>152206361
t. fell for the 'best villain is one whose motivations are hard to find fault in' meme
kys right now

>>152201205
>Wouldn't everyone just become white Zetsus?
This is a secret that Zetsu hid from Madara.

>>152206448
>t. fell for the 'best villain is one whose motivations are hard to find fault in' meme
I never said that at all. Nice strawman, idiot.

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>>152205546
Absolutely loved Obito's speech after Neji's death; he manages to express so many emotions all in one scene.

>>152206361
And then he bounced right back to the persona he had adopted with cackle laden speech about trash. Shame, admission, and a shaky restored self-assurance by justifying what he did by saying that "everyone becomes trash," all over the course of two panels. Nagato sure as hell didn't display anything like that. And what's interesting about that speech at the end is that he didn't believe a drop of it; deep down he knew he was trash and realized that what he was doing was evil, but he confesses at a later point that he never blamed Kakashi or viewed him as being garbage. There wasn't anything as simple as a "love" or "hate" relationship going on with him for most of the characters.

>>152206876
>strawman
There isn't even an argument to make that applicable. Kill yourself you fallacy spouting autist.

>>152200211
You mean the phantom troupe?

>>152200018
For some reason i always laugh when i hear his name or say it.

I don't know why but i just laugh at him

>>152200851
zabuza is definitely one of my favourite characters in anime

>>152206941
>There wasn't anything as simple as a "love" or "hate" relationship going on with him for most of the characters.
Yes, there was. That was basically his whole dynamic. He loved Rin, and hated the world because Rin died, so he took his anger out on it, including people who had fuck all to do with her death i.e, 99% of the planet.

That was the essence of Obito, which is made even worse when you realise that the entire thing was constructed by Madara, so he never even had a genuine reason for doing what he did; it was all for Madara. Granted, Madara made a lot of things worse during his revival, from Obito's past to Nagato's Rinnegan to his own fight with Hashirama and so forth, so I guess it's not entirely Obito's fault he was such a poor villain since Kishi decided to shoehorn Madara into everything.

>>152207033
>Using a strawman without even knowing what one is
That's hilarious. Please educate yourself, retard.

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>>152207305
>most of the characters

Even after shit-talking Minato in front of his son we're shown that Minato and Kakashi were actually more important to him than his own identity, and that he offed the former by contriving some BS about how the "real" Minato and Rin and Kakashi were still alive because the world was fake while his dream world was the real one. Again. We never see that sort of complexity with Nagato. Obito never hated Naruto, but his existence made him deeply uncomfortable due to the level of respect he ironically had for what Naruto had managed to become.

>>152205592
like real life it seems

>>152206894
>my face when the english dub of this ep is out on Tuesday

Have you heard Obito's english voice? It's fucking amazing IMO, I can't wait for the english VA to deliver this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weMRKBS0y_Q

>>152207305
>He loved Rin, and hated the world because Rin died
And that's dumb

>>152207721
This is also dumb

>>152208073
No. This post is dumb.

>>152207721
That's not complexity, it's convolution. Obito essentially attacked his former master, killed him and his wife on the night of their son's birth, for no reason whatsoever. I'm sorry, but you can't mask that kind of stupidity.

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>>152200018
The best? Yeah, probably Orochimaru. Was there from the start, had a lot of focus story wise, and as a result was more complex than the rest. His personality was interesting too, and the fact that he somehow survived is both fantastic and hilarious.
If we go by favorites, I loved Sasori and Deidara the most despite the lack of screentime.

>>152208141
>That's not complexity, it's convolution
Worthless semantics communicating the idea that Obito had multiple layers as a character. Only you're argument is that this makes for a worse character instead of a better one.

>Obito essentially attacked his former master, killed him and his wife on the night of their son's birth, for no reason whatsoever

Obito wanted to create a perfect world.

>>152208191
I loved the Akatsuki pairs the most. Deidara/Sasori, Deidara/Troll Tobi, Hidan/Kakuzu, and Itachi/Kisame. It wasn't their individual characters so much as it was their pair dynamics, they could live neither with nor without each other and nobody would've made a better partner for any of them. Sometimes I wish the Akatsuki had lived longer, possibly even being the final boss somehow. But I guess that couldn't be helped.

My OTHER favorite "villian" might be Gaara, when he was pretty crazy and wanted to kill a lot.

>>152208354
>Obito wanted to create a perfect world
By killing everyone and turning them into trees

>>152208354
A character isn't good just by virtue of having layers. Orochimaru barely has any layers, yet he's nigh-universally praised as a great villain in the series while Obito is nigh-universally despised. He didn't have as many layers when he was Tobi but that was when he was at his best.

>Obito wanted to create a perfect world.
So? That's not a good enough reason for pulling the bullshit he did. Madara wanted to create a perfect world too, he's still an idiot.

>>152208441
Because he had convinced himself that his original world was fake anyways. The death of the people outside of the Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't matter because the "real" incarnations would still be alive within it.

>>152208512
>Because he had convinced himself that his original world was fake anyways
That's stupid and makes no sense. Even to a crazy person

>>152207305
jokes on you I actually looked it up before I posted

>>152208362
Agreed. Sasori and Deidara had the best dynamics imo, but all Akatsuki pairs were cool. Always had a soft spot for Hidan and Kakuzu too. Wish they all lasted longer, but I always thought that Sasori was especially wasted as a character. He was introduced like some evil, creepy and overpowered reverse Pinocchio who once invaded a country by himself, and then he just sudoku'd himself at the first chance.

>>152208191
>Deidara will never give you a handjob
;_;

>>152209114
He'd literally explode your dick.

>>152208001
Okay, but it lacks some emotion.
The evil chuckle also doesn't match with the tone of his voice either.
A more ranting style would have worked better as if he only half cared if they listened or not.

-2 min later-

Took the time to rewatch the original version of that scene and I noticed that it was completely differen
You could even call the dub a frankenbite because it wasn't even in the order that the events happened.

If Sasori and Kakuzu had more character development and background story they could've been great villains as well but Kishimoto CAN'T DEVELOP HIS CHARACTERS FOR SHIT

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>>152208510
Orochimaru does have layers (which someone who dismisses Obito would almost certainly miss as well). But he's also charismatic in a manner typically reserved for more simplistic villains and evil masterminds. The result is a character that works if you just want a magnificent bastard to be entertained by but who also stands up to scrutiny when you dig deeper. As a villain he's effective on two levels.

Obito isn't as obviously "cool" or as charismatic as Orochimaru is, but he has the later appeal down pat if you feel inclined to analyze him. Most people who read shonen are not going to do that, which is why character popularity is so often power level focused and why they have trouble understanding really simple and obvious character traits such as, "Gohan is a scholar."

>>152210058
You just read too deep into things and like the smell of your own farts

>>152210121
Not really. I posted the scans and screencaps that led me to those conclusions after all.

>>152210198
Exactly. You read too deep into things that most people don't because there's no real depth there - you just made it up

>>152210246
I didn't "make up" any of the scans or screencaps.

>>152210246
are you an idiot?

>>152210300
You made up some deeper meaning for them.

>>152210318
Are you?

>>152200018
Orochimaru is the only villian in Naruto not bogged down by "muh frands".

He gets passed over for being the next Hokage so what does he do? He devotes his entire life to Ninjutsu and to mastering all and any techniques the world has to offer. Orochimaru is the purest character in the manga. He's not driven by rage, revenge, money or power - but by pure desire to seek enlightenment.

What are you to say that his methods are wrong?

>>152210058
Not reading that shit, but that image is the reason Naruto's dialogue is so underrated. Most shows with a theme usually run with it without acknowledging the idea. Like how One Piece is a pirate series, but they barely have any naval battles. Kishimoto placed the extra emphasis of making sure characters like Orochimaru and Sasuke carry a shinobi/soldier mentality. People misinterpret that as "edgy", but guess what... most ninja in fiction 'are' edgy.

>>152205828
He said it was because he felt Yahiko was supposed to be the real leader who would bring change to the world.

>>152210494
I dunno. I've watched Ninja Scroll. This shit ain't even close to edgy

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Reminder that this happened and Kishimoto thought it was okay to publish this

>>152210491
>Orochimaru is the only villian in Naruto not bogged down by "muh frands".

Sure, let's forget that whole speech he gave to Tsunade(after reviving her) about how Jiraiya's mentality finally rubbed off to him and made him forget about his ambitions.

>He's not driven by rage, revenge, money or power

The entire reason he tried to take Sasuke and Kimmimaro's bodies was for power alone.

>>152210703
He realized it was futile to try and compete with this Madara/Kaguya bullshit by nabbing bodies and instead is playing the long con.

>>152200018
The reason he (and also Sauce and Kabuto) are allowed to run free is the same reason why Nazi scientists found themselves with jobs at NASA or the Soviet Space Program after the war.

Yes, they were probably war criminals but they also have talents/knowledge that will probably come in really helpful when shit next hits the fan

>>152210539
It was stockholm syndrome leftover from when he was a baby

>>152209547
So much wasted potential, in both of them.

>>152210058
Christ, you are one pretentious cunt. Yeah, you're a special snowflake whose intellectual prowess is too great for us other plebs who read the exact same thing you do.

You're the same type of obnoxious dumbass who looks at a white canvas and tries to tell people how it has a deep resonation with the inner machinations of the human soul.

No, Obito is not complex nor is he deep. You're posting scans and applying your own headcanon to them in order to compensate for their lack of actual depth.

Kisame was the best.

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>>152204309
>Hinata's face
Every time

>>152209228
Too late for that.

>>152210539
Sexy.

>>152205550
>Mitsuki was never really a clone
>he was just Oro and Tsunade's kid that she didn't want to take care of
>Oro wiped his memories and lied to him so that he wouldn't be influenced by her shitty behavior

>>152210539
>40,000 died
And 39,999 of them were no-name fodder. What trash

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>>152211264
But it's not a white campus. It's multiple pages of canonical material that you're welcome to interpret as you choose. One of my interpretations was that Obito felt self-loathing, admission, and then fake self-assurance over the course of two panels upon being confronted with Kakashi's disappointment. Looking at his facial expressions is that really arguable? Do you have some other interpretation of of the scene?

You're welcome to say that Obito's simplistic and that his feeling towards Minato or Kakashi or Naruto aren't complex, as well, but when you actually go over the material there's not much to support that either.

>>152212881
>But it's not a white campus
Not anymore it isn't. Not with all the fucking niggers and poo in loos crawling all over it like ants

>>152212881
Obito is the nuruduverse Anakin Skywalker. Would you call Anakin Skywalker a good character?

>>152209480
Yeah I don't know why but I can't find an actual dub that matches what's going on. YT is probably just taking them all down.

>evil chuckle doesn't match his town
When has Obito ever actually had an evil laugh? He never seemed like the type.

>>152213047
I would honestly say all of cuck wars is shit.

>>152213047
Don't bother. He's probably one of those guys who does like him.

>>152206391
>except poor Deidara who got cucked
All the Sasuke fights in the middle of Shippuden were pretty bad. Between this and Danzo it really makes it hard to like Sasuke at all.

>>152210539
Original raw line is more past tense referring to the Obito who wanted to be hokage. Blame niggerstream and their shit translations.

>>152210494

Pretty much, which is why Naruto became the most popular shonen anime in the West.

It had an edgy streak, but Shipuuden ruined it by going balls to the wall in "darkness" and dbz style power level fights.

Most Naruto antagonists had good motivations for being the way they were.

>It's another Naruto thread where everyone is not able to understand Obito's status as a villain and complain about him.
And no, Nagato/Pain was not better.

If Boruto continues the story... and lets assume that Naruto goes on the Dragon ball path on exploring the future after the main story, did Kishimoto realize that Orochimaru will essentially outlive the main cast and their children?

>>152215509
>And no, Nagato/Pain was not better.
Than Oro? No, he wasn't.
Than Obito? Yes, he was. By leaps and bounds.

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best boy hands down.

>>152215644
Looks like I gotta break it down for you.

Obito was made to be the Anti-Naruto. He was the ultimate challenger against Naruto's beliefs. He was the representation of what Naruto could have turned into if he went down a dark path. And before you bring up Gaara, the difference between him and Obito was that Gaara was if Naruto embraced the evil of his Bijuu and became the monster every called him, Obito was what if Naruto, on a personal standpoint of his entire character, went to the dark side. It's further proven since it was shown that Naruto and Obito had similar lives growing up, the only difference is Naruto had the right influences to resist the darkness that Obito jumped into.

That's what makes Obito a good villain in the series in my book. He was what Naruto could have become. He was if Naruto gave up everything he stood for. And Obito tried used that to try to make Naruto give up throughout the war. He was the villain that wanted to strike Naruto personally.

>>152216061
Turles is what Goku could have become. No one calls him a great villain.

I'm not getting into one of these autistic arguments, but I'll leave at this: Obito is dumb. Super dumb. His entire arc was dumb and his backstory was dumb. After his mask came off it became impossible for me to take him seriously as a villain. The Rin shit only compounded the problem.

>>152216264
>Turles is what Goku could have become. No one calls him a great villain.
They don't?

>I'm not getting into one of these autistic arguments, but I'll leave at this: Obito is dumb. Super dumb. His entire arc was dumb and his backstory was dumb. After his mask came off it became impossible for me to take him seriously as a villain. The Rin shit only compounded the problem.
You probably only find him "dumb" because he isn't someone like Aizen, who just does nothing but look and act cool.

>>152216429
I don't like Aizen at all, but whatever.

What is this meme about Obito even being remotely a "good villain"?

Last I checked his motivation literally started and ended with Rin. Even when he put up pretenses that he did care for her anymore, evidence pointed to the contrary when he lost.

Nagato/Pain may have been an edgelord but at least his motivation and goals actually felt relevant to the whole war/peace theme of the ninja world. Hell even someone as 2D as Madara had more going for him than the pathetic excuse of a villain that Obito turned out to be.

>>152216486
>What is this meme about Obito even being remotely a "good villain"?
It's literally just one guy.

>>152216486
Nagato/Pain's whole villain shtick was "I'm sad!"

Obito actually had character. He had a presence all the way back in part 1. Nobody knew who the fuck Nagato was until Jiraiya went "Hey, did I ever tell you that I had students from the rain village? No? Well, now you know!"

>>152200812
It was 2v3 and he didn't have working arms.

Pain > Orochimaru > Kisame > Part 1 Gaara > Zabuza >>> Deidara > Kakuzu >> Sasori > Kabuto >>> Hidan >>>>>>>> Madara >>>>>>>>> Kaguya >>>>>>>>>>>> Dogshit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zetsu >>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obito

>>152204350
He was raising money so that he could go back to Mist and win the civil war against Yagura. If he'd managed to succeed, he might have been Mizukage rather than Mei.

>>152200851
>Itachi
>Villain

>>152201169
So essentially
>free will vs peaceful hivemind
This type of plot needs to die.

>>152205828
top kek i didnt see it like that before

>>152212881
>Looking at his facial expressions is that really arguable?
Easily
>Do you have some other interpretation of of the scene?
He's just annoyed that Kakashi's still wasting his time with this bullshit, he could have already reunited with Rin in the moon dream.

>>152216871
I actually think Itachi's a cool character. Ninja-autism is the best kind of autism.

>>152200851
What happened to the gritty feeling and soundtrack Naruto had when it first started out? Much better than the fucking magical wizard shit it turned into

>>152216941
>"""free""" will
>implying determinism isn't objectively true

>>152216061
>was made to be the Anti-Naruto
We didn't need anymore of those after Gaara, Neji, Sasuke, and Nagato.

>>152216486
He was the coolest guy.

>>152216703
>Nagato/Pain's whole villain shtick was "I'm sad!"
Obito's whole villain schtick was "Muh Rin!!! :("

>>152210539
What the fuck did you just fucking say about the Coolest Guy, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated bottom of my class in the Konoha Ninja Academy, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Akatsuki, and I have 0 confirmed kills. I am trained in frog warfare and I'm the top Rasengan spammer in the entire Shinobi Allied Forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit about Obito over the internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of sensor type ninja across the village and your chakra is being traced right now so you better get ready for the Rasenshuriken, maggot. The Rasenshuriken that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can talk you into embracing my ideals in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare words. Not only am I extensively trained in taijutsu, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Konoha ANBU and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your "clever" comment was about to bring down on you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, ttebayo.

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The people who believe Madara was one-dimensional are the same people who believe that Madara sincerely wanted peace, which is false. His dialogue hints at much more selfish, conceited ambitions on several occasions and that is later confirmed by Hagoromo when he says that Madara became just like Kaguya when he started to obsess over power for power's sake. He also had a pretty significant internal conflict between achieving his overall goal and fulfilling personal grudges against Hashirama and Tobirama.

He's a proper villain with charisma and plenty of complexity, and the fact that even on his deathbed he admits that nothing would have changed him is just icing on the cake really.

>>152215587
I think he does and doesn't care.

>>152216061
You're a fucking idiot if you think being an anti-shitty character makes someone a good villain. That is to say, they're an equally shitty character, for for completely different reasons.

>>152216703
>Nagato/Pain's whole villain shtick was "I'm sad!"
And Obito's was "I'm sad, but also muh Rin"

>>152217480
He was a retard who listened to a fucking rock and got BTFO by nigger jizz

Pain was better, when he was Pain, the leader of the Akatsuki that destroyed Konoha killing anyone in his path like nothing(except for Konohamaru because "lol rasegan").
Orochimaru seemed a threat when Chunnin exams, but even in that arc Oro needs help from 2 Hokages to kill the 3rd Hokage and even so he fails and the old man goes full sudoku. Right after that arc Itachi was like the most dangerous ninja around and Orochimaru was literally a joke. And I like Orochimaru's character, but he is not a good villain, even Kabuto did a much better job when the war happened. Orochimaru was more a player in all of this than a end game villain
End game villain should have been Pain, but with Nagato's shit then it should have been Madara and not the alien bunny. Madara was pretty good and felt like a threat that couldn't be overcome, that is until he goes gray hair mode with more weird eyes with Jesus Naruto around.

>>152218407
When you think of it, everything that happens after the Pain arc is basically filler.

>>152218285
Every single one of them wanted revenge for some silly thing, thinking they were a special snowflake that only bad things happened to them or to their village.
>Sasuke
>am sad
>nobody loves
>i hate my niiiiisaaan
>why is niisan bad when he was good to me when I was 4?
>NIIIIIIISAAAAAN
>go away blond kid, we kissed, we made eye contact when we were kids but I don't need you, I just need REVENGE
>NIIIISAAN DIE
>YES!!1 I KILLED NIISAAAN!
>what? niisaaaaaan made me think he was the bad guy...? to save me...? because konoha wanted the uchiha dead?
>KOOOOONOHHAAAAAA!!! REVENGE!!! EVERYONE DIE! EVEN YOU HAWK SNAKE TEAM GUYS!!
>OH SHI- I AM BLIND! GIVE ME NIISAAAAAN'S EYES
>REVENGE
>oh look, niisan is back.
>good dammit you blond kid, stop being gay
>oh, we lost arms? we friends since beginning? okay! no revenge, we friends

>>152218484
Except for the fact that nothing is concluded by then. Try again.

>>152218252
I have yet to hear a good reason other than "His motives suck!"

>>152200018
Orochimaru was a good boy who dindu nuffin, he was just trying to get his life together that's all.

>>152219198
And in the end he did.

>>152218829
Except for, you know, Naruto's journey towards respect and acceptance amongst his Konaha peers. And he's easily Hokage level at that point to boot. The only thing that wasn't concluded was the nauseating Uchiha plot, which should have ended the moment Itachi died.

But hey, gotta milk that cow dry, right?

Sure let's forget about all the loose ends and set ups that haven't yet been concluded.

>>152219050
Because that's a pretty good reason on its own

I don't know people could see Nagato as an endgame villain when most of his character is spent being manipulated. He was chosen by Madara to bear his Rinnegan to be revived and then later used by Obito as a figurehead for Akatsuki while he hides in the shadows.

His whole character was guided by other people using him.

>>152203674
It's shit. Zabuza and chuunin exam was peak.

>>152208001
It's so bad.

>>152208001
>>152209480
>>152213975
>>152219611
The guy ripped in that video is not the same guy who currently voices Obito. He was only used in Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution.

>>152219422
Then take out Madara and Obito, because those two were completely unnecessary components to the story until Kishi forced them to be.

Besides that, pretty much every villain was being manipulated. Black Zetsu is the only real exception.

>>152205592
You could do literally anything and get away with it just by agreeing to naruto's talk no jutsu when he shows up to fight you.

>>152219789
Than how will Nagato function as Pain? How does he even get the Rinnegan?

>>152219818
Easy, just go with what was said prior to Obito's bullshit after the Kage summit.

>>152218719
Most of sasuke was p bad. But i liked the ending how sasuke sees all naruto has done and overcome all the pain he suffered then he understood

>>152217084
>downcast look
>annoyed

Only if you're willfully obtuse. But given that its a shonen manga Kishi goes a step further by dispensing of the subtlety by having Kakashi explain that his interaction with Naruto was centered around an attempt to convince himself that he had made the correct choice.

>>152216486
>Last I checked his motivation literally started and ended with Rin

No. Obito could have killed Kakashi for his eye at any time but didn't, died for Kakashi, and was ultimately shamed into helping Naruto by appealing to the perception that he always had deep down that he had made the wrong life choice.

>the whole war/peace theme of the ninja world
Yeah. That was horrible and Nagato takes credit for introducing that nonsense. Pacifist ninjas? Alternatively Obito was a return to the grittiness of the Wave Arc.

>>152220122
>Alternatively Obito was a return to the grittiness of the Wave Arc.
No, he fucking wasn't. What are you on? You've been defending your husbando the entire thread. You don't need to spring to his side every time someone criticises him. Just accept that most people don't like him and move on.

>>152208141
>Obito essentially attacked his former master, killed him and his wife on the night of their son's birth, for no reason whatsoever.

He did need the Kyuubi for his plan. However, his subsequent attack on Konoha with the Kyuubi was completely pointless.

>>152220122
>downcast look
See shit like this is what makes you a faggot, it's not a "downcast look" it's just a narrowed eye and I say it narrowed in annoyance.

>ultimately shamed into helping Naruto by appealing to the perception that he always had deep down that he had made the wrong life choice
Hello Gaara, Neji, Nagato, and Sasuke.

>>152219818
No Tobi(because he died when Deidara exploded), no master plan Madara, Orochimaru died for real, Kabuto loses his purpose and never returns, Sasuke gets revenge on Itachi and gets over with the revenge emo shit, Zetsu is just a member killed off by Sasuke. No wheelchair Nagato and just a guy named Pain that can use the rinnegan because he naturally achieve it and thinks himself as god, no implant bullshit. No Jesus Naruto, just his father and mother help redoing the seal and tame Kyuubi for good. Naruto saves Konoha with everyone acknowledging him as the next Hokage. Everyone else that died against Pain stays dead, even Kakashi. Tsunade also died because she sacrificed for the village. Naruto vs Sasuke because they want to see who is the strongest between the 2

>>152220238
But the arc did get more gritty once Obito was reveled to be Tobi.

Honestly, I think the hate Obito gets comes from pure face value from people.

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>>152220238
>No, he fucking wasn't.

Yes he was.

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not even close, baby

>>152220452
Let's not forget Obito's rampage on the Mist nins.

>>152220452
No, he wasn't. Jiraiya's death is more gritty than Rin's.

>>152208191
oh god i forgot about puppet child

that was probably my favorite fight in shippuden

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>>152220687
>Jiraiya
>grittier than knifing a 12 year old through the chest

Villain (bloodlessly) killing the old mentor with Part 2's godlike power as is par the course in any story. Nagato then instrumented the biggest tonal shift in the series by reviving everyone else he killed. Obito was likely planned as far back the Zabuza and it shows in how his backstory is presented.

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>>152221025
>Bloodlessly
>Arm ripped of
>Throat crushed
>Stabbed like five times
>Rocket punched
>Drowned.

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>>152221025

>>152200018
https://desuarchive.org/a/search/image/ZVeiapXuyO1IhR4Q25aiSA/

Narutards, so cancerous, that they copy and paste old posts and spam them on /a/.

>>152220280
>I say it narrowed in annoyance

This becomes a shit interpretation in the very next panel when Obito even admits to being trash.

>>152221098
Everything else still stands. And bringing everyone back from the dead while pushing the theme of a peace is what set up the absolute biggest difference between Part 2's idealism and how the manga started.

>>152221351
>Implying that isn't the average /a/ poster.

>>152221351
Have you considered that people here simply have good taste?

>>152221351
>so cancerous
Is that a Jojo reference?

>>152221351
I know, right?
https://boards.fireden.net/_/search/text/fuck%20off%20narutards/

Please. Contribute to the total count, because you're SO fucking original, newfag. I want to laugh at you faggots and your impotent rage more.

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How can someone so evil have been so cute?

Was he ever even remoteyl implied to have fucked Tsunade? Because then I'll consider him the eternal champion of the series

Why didn't Kakashi have a child? His genes were above average considering what his father became, and him as well. Ignoring how the Sharingan pretty much crippled his own natural talent.

>there have been more naruto threads then the prime epitome of shonen that is HxH

What is it about this fucking show that attracts this many autists

>>152222017
>the prime epitome of shonen that is HxH
Let's not get carried away.

>>152222017
How about the fact that HxH's author is the laziest piece of shit in the world?

>>152222082
Togashi made Yu-Yu Hakasho one of the best Shonen to ever exist and top tier of all anime and then followed it up with an even better work like HxH

He can take all the time he fucking wants
The man deserves everything this world has to offer

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>>152222017
Maybe if Togashi made more/quality chapters and stopped playing DQ, we'd get more threads. Then you wouldn't have to shit up other threads with your bitching and whinging

>>152222171
Quit sucking his dick so hard, you're hurting his back

>>152222229
These Naruto threads only exist so people can go
>member how the first couple of chapters of this show were good
>Man I member

>>152222171
>Togashi made Yu-Yu Hakasho one of the best Shonen to ever exist
Not really. It only had one good arc.

>>152222307
Then go make an HXH thread and go
>'member when we got HXH chapters and they weren't poorly draw pieces of shit?
>YEAH! I 'member!
Go whinge elsewhere.

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>>152200018
Because
>Great design.
>Fantastic first appearance.(literally makes Sakura piss herself.)
>Awesome ninjutsu.
>Menacing.
>Isn't emo like every other Naruto Villain that's not Hidan.
>Not a bitch ass nigga
>Perfect Frieza-tier Seiyuu for the anime.
>Fucked Anko

>>152210703
Didn't he wanted Sasuke because sharingan copy hax would have been the best tool for a guy like orochimaru that wants to study and create jutsu and stuff?

>>152200018
Kisame was the best, because for being a secondary villain, he went out among the last, and was actually a deeper character than anyone would've expected.

>>152221025
>Obito was likely planned as far back the Zabuza and it shows in how his backstory is presented.

Kids, this is how incredibly delusional an autist can be when someone insults an his husbando.

>>152223540
That image is from 16 chapters into the manga. This isn't even up for debate.

I need some good old shounen, /a/. Manga or anime I don't mind either one.

>>152215959
He's definitely my favorite. I still wish he wasn't shafted and had more backstory.

>>152201205
He didn't know this. He just wanted to take everyone away to a happy dreamland place.

>>152203231
He was shipping Yahiko and Konan.

>>152200018
Yes and had a Mitsuki