Do Japan really believe that mecha are better than tanks?

No.
But they love the looks of them.

>>151948604
>its another tank autists vs mecha manchildren episode

Fuck off, we've probably had a million of these threads by now.

Ever heard of the rule of cool?

>>151948604
Aren't mechs basically tanks but with more maneuverability?

>>151948604
Yes. Because in Japan they would be. Japan is mostly tree covered mountains. Tanks neither climb mountains well or squeeze well inbetween trees.
A humanoid mech would, provided it was not outlandishly oversized. And the one you posted is not outlandishly oversized.
Humanoid mecha are not tanks, they are large infantrymen. And if they stay between the size of a Landmate and a Patlabor and you live in a country made of mountains they would do well.

>>151948604
Tanks are shit.

Mecha > Fighter Jets > Navies > Tanks.

>>151948739
No they are infantry with more armor and which don't bleed.

>>151948856
/thread
Nigga gets it.

Mechas are impractical and highly unrealistic. Aerial bombardments trump the maneuverability of dumb glorified tank soldiers.

>>151948885
>No they are infantry
Who cares what you call them they get the same guns as tanks and they move and turn faster.

>>151949085
>they get the same guns as tanks
And the same armor.
And for some reason they can be supported by slim legs on muddy ground.

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>>151948830
That must be why Japan are making mechs right?

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If your tank doesn't transform into a mecha, it's obviously shit.

>>151949135
Most outside of Gundam don't have the same guns or armor as tanks.
Things like Landmates and Labors have somewhere between a helicopter gunship and a IFV level of armor protection. They usually use cannon and missiles that fall in the range carried by gunships and IFVs as well. Which would normally be crew served infantry weapons, but can be operated by one man inside a mech.
A mechs usual defense against anti armor weapons is to lie down. Just like a rifleman.

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Sora no Woto had a more realistic approach, but yes one day they will have tanksized robots which are autonomous.

>>151949135
Well i never said that in reality it is possible to have the same armament and get more speed somehow but assuming anime logic if somehow you can make a tank get legs without loosing anything then mechs>tanks

>>151949354
Because nobody can make a mech right now.
There is no good powertrain available for one and the amount of processing needed to make one balance has turned out to be much greater than thought a decade or so ago.

>>151948830
Wouldn't non-humanoid mechs/spider-tanks be way better for all of that too?
Bipedal mechs would lose their balance too easily and it's probably better to keep the machine closer to the ground to make it harder to spot and target.

anime about people driving tanks would get boring fast

>>151948604
Mechas would be better than tanks.
1 pilot per mecha vs 4 or 5 per tank, 3 per tank with the new generation of russian tanks; this would allow to use less people with an equivelent firepower.
More mobility in the mecha, possibly more firepower, etc.
but, why don't they do it? because it is very fucking hard, the major problem would be to find a power source for a mecha.

>>151949536
>one day they will have tanksized robots which are autonomous.

What's the point of an AI? Why not just remote controlled tanks?

>>151949536
Sora no Woto used flight hax. Sicking spider legs on a tank hull conveys the worst drawbacks of both tracked and legged vehicles in one unit. Now they are both too wide and too tall, whereas tanks are only too wide and a humanoid mech is only too tall.

>>151949713
>1 pilot per mecha

Overworked as hell.

>>151949750
Sense-decision-response time is too long in drones unless they are being controlled by another tank or aircraft within line of sight.

>>151949713

Now imagine how much training that one pilot needs and how many things he needs to react to.

Also ground pressure.

>>151948705
Tanks are much cooler.

>>151949849
Except if he the pilot is controlling with motion tracking.

>>151949713
There's more people than there are tanks.

>>151948739
no, they are magic boxes that can ignore square cube laws, inertia, and monopolize all the advanced technology.

>>151949771

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Spider tanks can have a silhouette as low as a normal tank. And more importantly they can change the silhouette to get in and out of cover at will.

They no longer have ground pressure problems that make humanoid mechas utterly pointless too.

And entire machine won't be worthless after one joint on a leg breaks down.

Do Japan really believe that power rangers are better than police officers?

>>151948705

Except mechas are not cool. They exist so you can have teenagers fighting armies with swords but without magic.

>>151949713
>Mechas would be better if they had access to magic physics-breaking shit
>But not Tanks. They have to have the same stuff they do right now.
A compelling argument.

>>151949904
>>151950103
OP asked whether Japs actually believed mechas to be better, to which the answer is: they don't care because they find mechs cooler.
Whether you do too, doesn't matter.

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Do Japan really believe that a flying witch is better than a delivery truck?

>>151949472
If your tank transforms at all, it's obviously shit.

>>151950027
>and monopolize all the advanced technology.
Basically this.
Generally if tanks show up in a Mecha show, it will be several tech generations dated, without any of the cool guns or lasers

>>151948604
Why the fuck are those tanks not rotating their turrets?

>>151950201
OP question is retarded because OP is degenerate.

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Reminds me of the combat test scene vs the tanks in Metal Skin Panic Madox-01.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp9BmKn5NKg

>>151950282
It's cool shit.
Whereas normal tanks are just boring shit.

>>151950201
>they don't care because they find mechs cooler

Except no. Nip army is not working on mechas in any way.

And mecha anime is selling like shit outside of Gundam. It's one of the worst doing genres in recent years.

Mechas are pointless, but battlesuits would make sense in harsh environments. Resistant to small arms, agile and light enough to climb buildings to toss HEAT charges on tanks down below. Or agile enough to quickly occupy/fortify a rocky/forested area unavailable to vehicles.

Imagine a battlesuit roaming the mountains of Afghanistan with ease, carrying both a LMG and several HEAT warheads. Only needing to restock on ammunition and fuel, and maintenance every now and then.

Somebody post information about that South Korean mech prototype.

>>151950148
Tanks are boring and only white people use them. This is what makes Asians so amazing. Can a tank hold a giant sword? Can a tank hold giant machine guns? Can tanks have wings, jetpacks, and fly? Tanks are garbage just like white people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0ZadoooI0

>>151950301
They're manned by WoT players.

>>151950412
But then you realize it's American made and jams when the enemy throws sand at you

>>151950308
Where is all shows like this? I hate super mecha and modern overdesigned gundam bots

>>151950377
>Except no. Nip army is not working on mechas in any way.
The rule of cool is something that applies to writing fiction, not the military.

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Humanoid robots are better than function driven robots

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>Mech
>Less armor,less rounds,less mobile,maintenance hog, smaller gun,bigger target,more expensive to build and cant carry troops

There is zero reason to build mechs in the real world.

>inb4 anime magic
You might as well apply that shit to planes and tanks.
>inb4 urban fighting capability
You might as well use normal infantry to do the job. Mechs are more susceptible to man portable AT weapons than tanks anyways, maybe get IFV instead if you really need one in a urban setting.

>>151950666
Please don't smoke, Darjeeling.

>>151950666
>>inb4 urban fighting capabilityYou might as well use normal infantry to do the job. Mechs are more susceptible to man portable AT weapons than tanks anyways, maybe get IFV instead if you really need one in a urban setting.
Or go for power/mech/battle suits. now their shitty cheap AT weapons are the only thing that work on your infantry, that can still enter buildings.

>>151949713
>wanting less people in a tank
>wanting a one dude in a mech
Read a book retard

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>>151948604
No.

>>151950041
>They no longer have ground pressure problems that make humanoid mechas utterly pointless too. How the fuck are you figuring that? 6 small feet are not going to have anywhere near as much of a footprint as two large tracks.

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>no manga about hot modern jet action/races in post war alternate world where jet technology dominate over AA and anti-G system was developed
suffering

>>151950765
Powered suits could work well after we crack the battery issues. They arent mechs though.

>cheap AP weapons only thing bringing down infantry
I wouldnt say that. Rifle round can pack a still pack a punch, we would just move into different calibers and maybe sacrifice ammo capacity. Thats of course assuming that we would get more penetration that way which might not be the case. Carrying 50 cals as a service rifle wouldnt be far off if your infantry has power suits.

>>151950666
Depends on what you mean by mech. Powered armor has some great advantages if we can get it working. A full-sized gundam thing is kind of dumb though. Lots of wasted space and more points of failure than a tank to get it working. Only has marginal advantages in the worst types of terrain but hybrid designs can compensate for some of that.

>>151949713
Pretty sure that only having 1 person vs 4-5 would be a huge disadvantage.

You'd need lot more training needed for the pilot to manage weapons, movement, communications all at the same time and if the pilot is incapacitated it's over. A tank can still operate as long as there's at least 1 alive person inside. It's not like manpower is at a premium.

>>151950666
FMP mechs

What you want is a tank like main structure that sends out a swarm of flying drones upon contact with the enemy.
The drones would be difficult to hit, (relatively) cheap to replace when destroyed and carry a good arsenal of weaponry.

>>151950976
This. Manpower is less valuable than the resources to build and maintain it. If you can out industry your opponent so much that you can build 4-5 vehicles per their 1 you likely win almost regardless of what you build.

>>151950641
i'm scared

>>151949641

Then again processing power has increased in speed while reducing size/powerintake. As for powertrains, if you reduce the requirements so the damn thing doesn't have to leap over buildings or anything silly like that, it's doable with current tech. Extremely overpriced compared to other weapon platform types, but it's doable.

>>151950935
>implying jet technology doesnt already dominate AA
Even S-300 is useless against modern jamming

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>Tankfag having to post the same .gifs and webm every thread

There's a genre called Mecha.
There isn't a genre called Tanks.

>>151949644

Appleseed-style multileg gun platforms?

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>>151950946
Well you're right, they're not mechs and there's more that could hurt them.

But the point was that mechs are dumb due to their scale, primarily.
You don't want an infantry replacement that can't do infantry things like holding/entering buildings.
Anyway >>151951035 has it right, you want drones in the end. both small flying ones, and maybe a small handful of land based ones. Pick not entirely related as it may not really be the best form.

>>151948604

Who wins, a marine in standard issue gear or a miniature tank as tall as his knee?

>>151948604
Mecha
>can fly
>can go to space
>looks cool as fuck and scares the shit of your enemy
>homing rockets
>can carry a sword
>cockpit probably feels like a king's throne
>hatch won't open unless they've got the proper equipment or the pilot opens it
>can move at high speed with boosters

tanks
>armored van with a nose
>multiple wheels because of retarded reasons
>slow as fuck
>enemies can easily open the hatch
>can't fly
>can't go to space
>the inside probably smells like sweat

Why would you prefer tanks again?

>>151949641
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVJTGLL2SnI

>>151951470

Tank, if armed with nerve gas bullets.

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>>151951470
The tank?

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Basically to make mechs useful we need to develop system that can interrupt TOW, AT shells with 100% until this system has power support/ammo. Mech would be great "special" unit

>>151951470
Marine just shoots the robot out of its dead angle. Either the bullets penetrate or mission kill the thing.

Duh

>>151951489

>scares enemy

More like makes them laugh their asses off while their artillery pounds the damn thing to scrap.

>>151951565
Why wouldnt you put that on a tank though?

>>151951631
You will.

>>151951489
umm because tanks are real

>>151951594

O rly?

>tank hides itself in tall grass
>marine approaches
>tank sees marine with IR
>fires napalm/nervegas at marine
>dead marine

>>151951667
Pfff. Says you.

>>151951489
>slow as fuck
>enemies can easily open the hatch
You comparing ww2 era tanks to mech again, anon?

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>>151951627
Imagine you suddenly loses communication with your squad, only to realize their tanks have been gunned down, you're there in the middle of the battlefield, riding your tank, when suddenly pic related appears infront of you while crushing one of the tanks your comrades rode in.

>>151951698
You could easily say that about the marine though. In the end marine has better situational awareness and is more mobile in general.

>>151951489
>>can carry a sword
That's the silliest bit actually.
Swords are useless against tanks/mecha.

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>>151950251
A flying witch is better than the entire Germanian army, which is made of tanks and bombers and warships and fighter aircraft.
Magic >>>> Machines.
Mecha is magic, therefore mecha >>>> machines.

Man, I am good at this argumentation game.

>>151951250

Would you still be if the robot was covered with anime waifu looking realdoll?

>>151951853
>Swords are useless against tanks/mecha.
Not when the sword vibrates at high frequency.

>>151951916
Vibration is actually bad for a swords cutting ability.

>>151951874
Mecha try to pretend they're not magic though.
Which makes them hypocritical, and therefor worse than both pure machines or pure magic.

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>>151951796
Open the hatch and slice it up obviously.

>>151951631
You could take all the great mech tech and put it on a tank.

>anti-anti-tank protection system
>sophisticated guided missiles and targeting systems
>enough automation to keep all the systems running with only 1-2 people on board
Paste that shit right on a tank, no explanation necessary.
>energy source capable of keeping a mech running for hours
Tank now runs for as long as the crew has food, without the mess a tank engine makes
>actuators that move a giant mech's limbs
>propulsion system capable of making a mech fly in a controlled manner for minutes or more
You could make a tank fucking hop in the air like a flea and fly strafing runs through the streets of a city

Compared to a mech, a souped-up tank would be smaller target (harder to spot and harder to hit with the weapons that do get through) and would probably be cheaper to run and maintain without giving up survivability and firepower.

I can only see mechs being really useful as engineering vehicles. Otherwise, tanks (or short-legged spider tanks at most) are the way to go.

>>151952005
They're techno-magic.

>>151951999
Not really.

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>>151951796
>imagine anon sitting there in his giant robo on the battlefield
>angsty autist with daddy issues
>he hears a noise in the distance
>BRRRTT
>WOOOSH
Tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down.

>>151952094
5-7 meters mechs will be useful because of high agility. They can support tanks from being BTFO by enemy mechs in close distance.

>>151952094
The problem with tanks is that they're short and stubby. There's nothing much you can add to it. Also assuming mech level tech threads is cripple tier mobility, and if you're gonna make it fly may as well develop an armoured VTOL which can actually aim their guns at the ground.

>>151952225
Yes, really.
Cutting is about drawing the edge of the blade along the thing you want to cut.
Vibration would get in the way of that.
Traditionally, people wanted their swords to be as stiff as possible, except they also had to make them thin (so they would pass through the target more easily) and also light (so the blade could be moved faster).
Look at the katana though. It's an excellent cutting sword, and it's way too stiff to vibrate notably.

>>151952319
>implying mechs get close to tanks
>implying mechs are faster than tanks

Tanks can just reverse faster than mechs can run

>>151952344
>The problem with tanks is that they're short
No, that's actually an advantage.

>>151950103
Mechs exist so you can control a second body much larger than your own or go hand to hand with giant monsters. It's all about the scale; bigger/heavier = cooler and smaller/lighter = more practical. Smaller armored suits might be viable in real life if we developed technology to make them have fast reflexes and were able to mass produce them.

>>151952425
Of course, but also a limitation. I worded that poorly.

>>151952319
don't you realize tanks can shoot at targets 5000m (maybe even more) far away?

>>151952489
Don't you know mecha can climb trees and hide themselves in the middle of the branches?

>>151952469
In traditional warfare it's completely advantageous. Makes for a smaller and more durable target. If it's under the cannon barrel then it's gonna get run over, and if it's explosives then it hardly matters because tanks are designed to tank those. The only issue are traps designed to stop the treads, and treads are designed specifically to be hard to stop.

>>151952559
>20xx
>implying hiding in a bush/branches works

>>151952373
FMP style mechs has no armor against AT but fast and as fuck.

>>151950641
>own a fembot
>make her play a videogame with you instead of fucking her
why?

>>151952603
tanks are faster though. If you can make inefficient two legs system run 70+ km/h, you sure as hell can make tank even faster than that

>>151952596
A limitation in the way of outfitting the tank with more weaponry and equipment other than "big fucking gun at the front" and peashooters on the sides

>>151952629
She's multifunctional.

>>151950666
What if we have to fight giant monsters in an urban setting which can only be defeated with blunt trauma?

>>151952661
Good luck steering the tank at those speeds

>>151952666
>A limitation in the way of outfitting the tank with more weaponry and equipment
The only reason tanks are hugging the ground is because it's advantageous to hug the ground. If you have a weapon that's larger than a normal tank's gun, you can still mount it on a tank.

>>151948604
If they were not they would have no reason for existing.
The entire existence of mecha requires them to be better then tanks.

>>151952230

More like he doesn't even see what hit him and turned his ride into a crater. Beyond visual range weapons are what kills heavy metal.

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>>151952489
yes

>>151952721
No. Mecha only exist to look awesome and be sold as toys, because humanoid-shaped robots are awesome.

>>151952666
But you wouldn't want some siege tower outfitted with multiple tiers of weapons since it would just mean a bigger target that gets taken down faster regardless of how many bullets it's spamming. Having a turret cannon and portholes for machine guns is about as practical as you can get with an armored vehicle.

>>151952711
yes,thats easily doable.

>>151952708
shoot hollowpoint tank shells

>>151952489
Is that with a railgun or can artillery shells really carry momentum 5km?

>>151952661
unironically mechs in FMP not supposed to engage tank battles tho. Their sniper rifle is 70mm max.

>>151952834
Doable yes. Better than an hypothetical limbed robot? No

>>151952843
you can hit 8km with LAHAT

>>151952843

It's a guided AT missile, you dingus.

>>151949024
Aerial bombardment is garbage if you check US Air Force records, which is abysmal for the money it cost per deployment.

>>151952893
>Basically to make mechs useful we need to develop system that can interrupt TOW, AT shells with 100% until this system has power support/ammo.
baka-baka

>>151952629
There's more parts to that webm.

>>151952874
why wouldnt it be better? Go running down the streets and try do a u-turn instantly without falling over, its not like people dont fall over while running, especially when the terrain is shit. I doubt multiton mech could do any better than that

>>151952875
>>151952893
Oh dang I'm retarded. I forgot mounted missles were a thing that are actually viable.

>>151953002
Not everyone is fat

>>151949710
Bullshit.

>>151952005
Western sci-fi spaceships are garbage too by that argument since they can't operate based on actual sciences.
Muh fabricator can't be done.

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Mech are better

>>151952874
A bipedal robot would have to be insane intricate and have tons of gyros to turn around quickly, or go the route of metal gear and have organic legs. Either way it'll be expensive as fuck to produce and with the former you'd get fucked up by anti-artillery weapons.

>>151952711
um real tank battles isn't GuP.

>>151952363
No, you don't know what you're talking about. A vibrating knife/sword is best weapon in close quarters combat.

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>>151953002
Are you incredibly fat, landwhale?

Here's another thing: You can have a dozen guys with anti-tank rifles take potshots at a mech from all around it and it can't do shit.

>>151953048
But it's true. Tanks are boring. And even modern tank is meat on battlefield. Coffin on trucks

>>151953105
At this point you are just claiming nonsense.
I suggest you try to find some evidence to support it. Maybe the attempt will show you how utterly dumb everything you are saying is.

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>>151953116
>>151953047
Im not american, but I have history of falling over while running

>>151953101
Real tank battles do no longer exist though. WWII will never repeat itself

>>151953105

>best weapon in cqc
>not a chainsaw

Get out.

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>>151949710
But what if they were cute girls?

Tanks are weapon platforms first and foremost. The armor and chassis change with the role. Given equal tech there is nothing a mech can shoot that a tank can't also shoot, and no armor a mech can have that a tank can't have more of.

On open terrain tanks win hands down. Treads/wheels are cheaper than legs and that means more guns for the man who rolls tank. Mecha platforms work for unusual situations and most of those will require unusual tools to go with it. That makes Mecha a great tool platform for an engineering corps.

>>151953171
sadly true, but at least there were a few cool tank battles during the gulf war.

>>151953076
Nobody is denying that it's infnitely more complex for fuck's sake. The point is that there's only so much you can do with threads no matter how advanced your technology is, while limbs offer more possibilities

>>151953217
>On open terrain aircrafts win hands down.
Fixed

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>>151953161
So you also a cripple and a faggot in additional of being fat then?
$10 you are also a virgin as well since no women would want to fuck a nitpicker

>>151953105
Only in scifi because high frequency blades sound cool in theory. Even in Eva they don't use vibrating knives to cut but rather because it helps them force through AT Fields by applying more friction.

In real life a vibrating blade would be pointless because a cutting weapon is designed to have a narrow edge to split matter apart. It'd be better to make a beam sword or a knife that has an atomically precise edge if you want an optimal CQC slashing weapon.

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>>151953217
>That makes Mecha a great tool platform for an engineering corps.
How about mechs as AA support?

>>151953332
Since when was being virgin a bad thing on /a/?

>>151953054
Western Sci-fi generally doesn't pit it's magic spaceships against something that's conveniently not exempt from basic physics.

Usually both sides can bullshit to the max.
Nice strawman though, since space ships have little to do with mechs. and the fabricator even less so.

>>151953366
But why?
You can have the AA battery on a tank chassis.

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>>151953332
Are you projecting on me?

>>151953414
>Western Sci-fi generally doesn't pit it's magic spaceships against something that's conveniently not exempt from basic physics.
I present you with the average aliens vs humans scenario.

>>151948604
>The only thing they fight are light tanks and bradleys who dont even aim and speifically say lines that indicate that they are not aiming.
It is almost as if it was ment to be one-sided since one side dont even aim.

>>151953469
You talk about Sci-fi or hard Sci-fi? I't's two diffrent things you know?

>>151953535
>comparing hard scifi to mecha-fi

>>151953266
If we really wanted the precise and quick movements that limbs give then we'd have to develop biotechnology and make artificial muscle fibers. Things like Metal Gear's Gekko units are theoretically viable as an extremely agile upgrade to infantry. With true mechs, that agility simply cannot be achieved and you're gonna have a slow and clunky walking tank.

>>151953305
In the age of projectile weapons, high ground is the ultimate advantage.

In the age of laser and beam weapons, aircraft are target practice and dirt is free armor.

This entire argument is a waste of time. Mechs require some as of yet undiscovered power source in order to even function, if you have a power source capable of making mechs effective, you would always be better off sticking that same power source in a tank. Legs provide a small advantage in some terrain types, but are a huge logistical and defensive weakness that would never outweigh the small advantage they grant in uneven terrain.

>>151953153
Nonsense? No, you're the one claiming nonsense. A vibrating sword was proven to be unbeatable in CQC.
>>151953349
You seem to be confused. A giant vibrating blade wielded by a mech is not for cutting, but for crushing.

>>151953349
High frequency vibrating blades have actually been made into a medical device. I don't know how popular it is, but it has made it far enough to be cleared for use on people in first world countries.
It turns out the vibration makes the blade highly selective. In skilled hands, it cuts through bone easily while sparing soft tissues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twrF4zNq9oo

Inb4 thread deleted or moved to /m/ or /trash/.

>>151953643
>but for crushing.
Then take a hammer, you retard. A hammer is for crushing, a sword's point of balance is really bad for crushing anything at all.

>>151953637
Rex > shagohod

>>151953630
The power source has never been a problem. Mecha fail because of a lack of effective transmissions. It is HARD to turn mechanical energy (usually spinning) into limb actuator energy. The systems are heavy, inefficient and have a lot of fragile parts.

Turning mechanical energy into spinning wheels is easy. It is much lighter and more efficient, so you need a smaller engine to go with it.

>>151953565
So you're saying that mecha can benefit from certain advanced material and engineering technologies while tank threads don't, thanks for proving my point

>>151953703
No retard, a vibrating sword would be more viable due to it's versatility. Can a hammer cut? No. But a sword can cut, and crush.

I'll have you know the feds managed to hold out against zeeks using tanks

>>151953679
This blade is vibrating along the edge, which is feasible because the blade is so small.
You'll also note that the handling is very different from how you'd use a sword.

>>151953814
>But a sword can cut
No, it can't, because you can't cut steel with steel.
All you're going to do is ruin the blade's edge.
And thus you are left with something that can neither cut nor crush.

>>151953816
>holding out against zeeks
Is that supposed to be impressive?

>>151953783

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0VeU9Ov7A

HARD MODE
Tanks vs Mechs
+
force field developed

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>implying tanks will ever look this cool

>>151953859
ummmmm, do you know what folded steel is???

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>mecha
>not better than tanks

>>151953889
nigga they didn't had GM's
that's impressive

>>151953859
>because you can't cut steel with steel.
Yes you can't. But you certainly can with vibrating steel.

>>151953921
Yes. It's a technique to make up for the deficiencies of steel that hasn't been purified.
If your metallurgy is so bad that you need to rely on folding it, then your weapon is shit and not worth a mention.

>>151953928
zeeks are retarded.

>>151953469
Which usually has the humans conveniently forgetting their limits because plot.
Or the aliens forgetting their tech superiority because plot.

those are actually the inverse of mech vs tank in that they're the situation in which the "inferior" wins. Mostly due to bullshit, I concur.

>>151953935
That's just going to ruin your edge faster.

>>151953909
Tanks still win, They are heavier and can carry larger shields and weapons and are a more stable platform to shoot from. Mechs only win if they can move faster than the tanks turrets can track (abrams can do 360 degree turns in 4 seconds)

We need anime actually about war action. Made by at least Wargame and military fags

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>Using mecha or tanks at all
Flesh, blood and carapace is all you need.

>>151948604
No, but to be honest, the only reason mecha wouldn't be as good as tanks is because in real life mecha can't do the stuf shown in anime because of the laws of physics.

>>151954047
Virtually helpless against the Japanese cold.

>>151953999
Yes, but the sword/knife of a mech was always meant to be a sidearm, not a main weapon. Just like how a knife/dagger is to a soldier.

>>151953893
Thermometer springs aren't going to help much on a battlefield. In fact the entire muscle compartment would need to be temperature controlled which is yet another system to pack into everything.

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>>151954047
>Posting the most worthless class.
TANK is the best.

>>151954084
Well done, you have carried a heavy side arm into battle, and ruined that side arm. Your opponent has a visible scratch on his armor but it's less than a millimeter thick.
Will you now switch back to your main weapon?

>>151954130
>thick
*deep

>>151954075
Should help againt Japanese trucks, though.

>>151953935
No one in the steel industry cuts steel with steel. Unless it's a crab claw shear.

Every day cutting is done by torch. Or in magic Mecha land, beam swords.

>>151954130
>you have carried a heavy side arm into battle
Weight doesn't matter since it's carried by the mech.
>and ruined that side arm
Yeah, after crushing 15 tanks or so.
>Will you now switch back to your main weapon
Why the fuck not? A mech can easily switch back to it's main weapon before a tank could turn it's gun.

>>151954344
Shut up kid. No steel can penetrate steel and walk away undamaged.

The only way steel can cut steel is to be overwhelmingly bigger and stronger than the thing it intends to cut. It does exist and it is called a shear.

>>151954344
>Weight doesn't matter since it's carried by the mech.
Weight management is still a big issue. Not just because of the fuel requirements, but also because it slows you down and might even put you over the weight capacity of your mech.

>after crushing 15 tanks or so.
No.

>>151954100

Just saying, there are solutions. Electrically driven actuators are a thing.

Mech/a/ , how could we make mechs fight for real ? Including the law of physics.

>>151954424
There are paraolympics, so I see no reason why we shouldn't have mecha wars.

>>151954424
Battletech style heavy mechs

>>151953588
>In the age of laser and beam weapons, aircraft are target practice and dirt is free armor.
Ignoring the fact that lasers and beam weapons would require a massive power plant. Any laser or beam weapon would need some way to aim at the aircraft farther then the eye can see, the fact RADAR would not be useful to this end due to the Existence of SEAD, and other Anti-RADAR Measures such as stealth, and the said aircraft could have laser weapons mounted, and in the event of oh they are entrenched and so they have armor from dirt you still can fall back on ground penetrating munitions to be dropped from a plane.

>>151954413

Actually there is another one it is called kinetic penetration.
But we are talking about blade so...

>>151954416
The weakness is one of part count. A mecha leg needs many motors of various high strength. All those motors get heavy very fast. A wheeled system needs one good, strong motor. It will give more power per weight based on part count alone.

>>151949713
If we need 4 or 5 people in a tank what makes you think a mecha would only require one?

>>151954625
Simple:
It has more limbs and more joints and is way more complicated, so you obviously need less people operating it.

>>151954474
Every form of warfare is inferior to unmanned bombardment anyway

>>151954625

Mecha requires only one pilots, but several superfast computers to assist and a hangarful of techs, engineers, support and logistics staff.

>>151954540
> Massive power plant
A Mecha can have one, why not a tank?

Some modern laser weapons use chemical ammo and don't need big power cells.

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>>151949354
yes, even their most basic of farmers are skilled in the craft of gundams

>>151954474
Anon this only please me by the rule of cool.
I did not have any intend bringing it to a real fight

Why mechs need to fight against tanks?

>>151954838
Because this is an autist post.

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>>151954075
There's always the silicon version that is extra rapey.

>>151954413
No, you shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. I've been in the military for 5 years and I know what I'm talking about.
>>151954414
>Weight management is still a big issue. Not just because of the fuel requirements, but also because it slows you down and might even put you over the weight capacity of your mech.
You're right but a big sword/knife won't slow down a mech that much.
>No.
Yes.

>>151954424
Make them infantry-sized so squads can bring the armor and fire support of a tank into spaces too small or uneven for tracks/wheels, like the insides of buildings. Basically mechanized suits for close fire support in urban environments.

>>151954867
Careful, I'm going to sneeze at it.

>>151954838
The same reason Mecha need to fight against airplanes, boats, space ships and 100 foot tall mutagenic monsters.

Duh.

>>151954698
So in the same setting a tank could be made to be operated by a single person using the same interface as a mech?
For less resources and more survivability.
The fact a mech can carry a more versatile load out is a strike in its favor, for instance most tanks can not carry a good anti ground and anti air weapon it is one or the other, where a mecha could conceivably because it can swap armaments on the fly, but for the price of a normal mecha you could probably build significantly more tanks that could fill those roles over a wider area, so a mecha would only really be viable in a place with minuscule manpower, abundant resources, and and a battlefield where you need to be able to fill any role at any given time, due to the modular abilities and one unit able to fulfill virtually any role on the fly.
So the parameters to make mecha more viable then tanks is virtually non existent.

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>>151954838
because poor countries that cant afford mechs

>>151950935
Macross: The Ride

>>151954930
It is hard to create a swiss knife type of weapon. Due to that every weapon has their specific role

>>151954930
I'm sure Switzerland is funding mecha research then

>>151954751
I never said that a tank could not I was stating why laser weapons would not be the end of air warfare. Also modern laser weapons do not 100% kill aircraft by any stretch of the imagination, also those modern weapons house batteries for the laser or the laser is mounted on the firing craft and must be constantly pointed at the target to tell the munition where to go. These lasers do not need to be able to hit 1370C in order to penetrate armor as well.

>>151954930
The more weapons your mech carries along, the less mobile it becomes.

>>151954868
> My 5 years of anti Mecha Bushido training

>>151954540
Not to mention the effect of directed energy weapons disappear entirely in yhe presence of atmospheric condensation or anechoic coating.

The stuff they cover stealth planes with? Near completely laserproof.

Directed energy technology was a major focud in the late 20th century because it was believed they could be used to intercept ICBMs. Then they discovered the radar stealth coating they were already developing almost completely invalidated it. Part of the reason laser weapon technology has advanced so little in 30 years is because the US recognized it simply wasn't worth the investment as a weapon.

>>151955168

>Near completely laserproof

Maybe for visible spectrum, but real battlefield weapons can have any wavelenght that works.

Heard of masers?

>>151955245
At the point where you start using microwave guns you have bigger issues to worry about.

>>151955245
Anechoic coating, like the kind used in stealth craft, work by reducing all EM interaction across the spectrum. Laser guidance systems don't even work well against it, which us why the US has been paying multibillions to produce warships coated with it too.

EM radiation just isn't practical as a precision weapon when it's so easy to mitigate.

>>151948604
Because they're not luddite retards, that's why. Mechs will be useful on difficult terrains (mountains, urban slums, etc.) in the future.
>b-but joints are shit!
>m-muh APFSDS round hitting tall mechs from 2 kilos away!
Don't listen to /k/.

>>151955460
I guess that's why Mecha jumped straight to particle beam cannons.

>>151955552

Yeah sure, just need to mine that unobtanium to make them work.

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>>151948604
> tanks
> in space

>>151955552
Particle weapons are cooler scifi stock anyways because they're the stuff that shoots handwavium at negative ion jargonoids to create black singularity hole horizen event things

>>151955756

In space, a low-profile fighter would make much more sense. It can even enter upper atmo for advantage.

>>151955840
In space a box with guns makes more sense. It can even bombard from orbit for advantage.

>>151951874
Izetta is so cute but the show is shit

>>151955840
soft space or hard space? In hard it's better to be armored box or cylinder

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>>151955840
Just drop a rock.

>>151955933
Spheres actually.

I like you guys. Don't go to school monday.

>>151955552
I mean as we speak we are bypassing Laser weapons and jumping right into EM Rail Drivers.

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>>151956215

>>151956215
>school

>>151956307

I'm gonna roll up to the front gate in my mecha, no piggy popgun or nothing gonna stop me!

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>>151955840

>>151952744
Just saying but that was just the Syrian crew panicking. The tank was fine.

>>151956307
> white people

>>151951250
Robots will replace normalfaggotry.

>>151956450
Dude, no. Delete this. You gonna ruin tihs thread.

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>>151956497
will it though?

>>151950432
If you can put wings/jetpacks and fly in a shit mecha. You can put the same in a tank fucking tard.

If some country put a mecha in his arsenal. They would only be infantry support like in halo. Tank will always be the spearhead.

>>151956633
Well a mecha could have the advantage in something like a HALO drop, but it is unlikely.
But yeah for leading the charge you want something like a Tank, for defending you also would want a Tank with the low profile, Mecha would be specialist equipment, something special forces use or a role like out flanking if they could move faster then a tank somehow.

>>151956599

>VRRR CLANK CLANK CLANK

>>151956426
When your weapon platforms have gotten close enough for melee weapons in space, then you know you fucked up.

>>151956781
thats just how good mechs are. A tank would just burn up on re entry

>>151953048
He's right though, the only reason that one anime with girls and tanks got popular was because of the girls

>>151951667
>3dpd
fuck off

>>151948604
You wouldn't bother making them if they were inferior to tanks.

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>>151951667
> he doesnt know

Can a mech do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCu0NZpPq0

checkmate, autists.

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>>151957213
> can a tank swim

checkmate, its no better than a nigger

>>151948604
>Do Japan really believe that mecha are better than tanks?
Yes, and it's the same reason many anons use for having waifus

>2D>3DPD
it's as simple as that.

While tanks are probably the more practical let's face it, they're boring and generally look like shit.

In anime and general fiction you can do whatever you want without caring about reality.
Mecha can range from galactic sized beings of light powered by manliness, dragons that transform into fantasy knights, or just plain and simple replacements for tanks within a setting.

This is why they choose to use things like mecha over what is essentially a glorified van with guns strapped to it. It's more entertaining and interesting, it's that simple.

>>151954047
Did he make them look fucking stupid on purpose?

Mechs are the Cars of the horse drawn Era. there will always be doubters and procrastinators

>>151957524
Then what are trains?

>>151953935
Do you understand what vibrating a blade does on the molecular level? It basically makes the edge WIDER. It would only be practical as mentioned earlier in this thread with precise medical equipment where the frequency of a very small blade could cause it to "phase through" certain matter. A mech scale or even human scale blade would just become worse at cutting if you vibrated it.

Also steel can cut steel. It's all based on shearing and force though, not folding. Folding steel just removes impurities and was not a Japanese exclusive technique. What was Japanese exclusive was using razor sharp, thin blades because it conserved their small supply of iron and their armor was made from a resin with the consistency of plastic.

>>151957797
Mechs made from combining trains, obviously.

>>151953816
On Earth right?

Reminder that youre not cutting steel,youre cutting trough composite mix of steel and other materials we dont know of

>>151957376
>>151957376
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bDxjBVDh5w

Yes they can.

>>151957891
>thin blades
No, they had thick blades and thin edges.

>>151957891
> being hit with something 600000 times per second is less effective than my kitchen knife cutting butter


Must be why Jack hammers are less effective than sledge hammers

>>151957376
Mechs wouldn't be able to swim either unless they were specifically designed for it.

Basically what I'm saying is Metal Gear Ray would be the only viable mech in real life since it uses biological legs and is basically a submarine that can also navigate with agility on land.

>>151958019
>600000 times hard contact
>a thin and fragile piece vs a thick object
Guess which one's going to look like shit afterwards.

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>>151957990
> muh perfect conditions

>>151958019
Jackhammers and sledgehammers have different purposes and are blunt tools. A vibrating sword would be hitting with much less force after initial contact and quickly wear out the blade. A chainsaw would accomplish the same thing and be equally ineffective at breaking steel armor.

>>151958055
>a thin and fragile

who claimed he HAD to be thin and fragile? You?

Not the jack hammer

>>151958149
>>who claimed he HAD to be thin and fragile?
We were discussing swords.

If you are using a sledge hammer then it's a completely different story. I recommended using a hammer instead of a sword earlier.

>>151958149
You do realize jackammers are used against concrete, which is significantly less tough than metal? Try taking a jackhammer against a steel plate; you're going to break it.

>>151958244
Not him. Tanks and mecha would have gaps that you could try to wedge your point into.

>>151958244
You'd dent the steel plate on intial impact, but after that it'd become pointless. If mechs engaged in CQC we'd go back to the melee weapons that still work best on armored targets: warhammers and polearms.

>>151958307
Why not use something akin to an axe or wedge, then? A jackhammer wouldn't work without leverage considering you'd have to hit joints at weird angles to damage them.

Mecha are common in Japanese science fiction fantasy because of a general Japanese view of how war should be fought.

It lies in the corrupted bushido horseshit spewed during the Imperial era.

>>151958385
>you'd have to hit joints at weird angles to damage them.
Sounds exactly like battles between two guys in late medieval plate armor.
Your mecha would be wrestling for positions in which they can employ their weaponry effectively.

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>Bipedal mechs

I guess you all like unstable machines that can be knocked over easily and have poor weight distribution.

If, IF mechs were ever adopted by the military as a weapon and not just as some logistics purpose they would probably be quadraped. Power armor is probably the future as far as mech stuff goes though, mostly because you can carry more/heavier shit with them.

>>151958452
Yeah, which is why mecha would basically use the same weapons in melee combat that were effective in melee combat: polearms and warhammers. Maybe some kind of plasma cutter. Vibrating anything makes no sense and wouldn't help you cut through steel.

>>151958543
Either quadrupeds, power suits, or heavily armored spiders/crabs that can stand after having several legs severed.

And even those are still mostly theoretical.

>>151958081
>Oil nigger tankers.

We have a whole fucking board for mecha discussions, why do you shitter always go past your boundaries?

>>151958616
No, I think in that situation a jackhammer function would actually be beneficial. You don't need to cut through steel in order to damage the parts significantly - if you can get in between the plates.
>would basically use the same weapons in melee combat that were effective in melee combat
That is a silly argument because it assumes that they chose not to use modern technology, when the simple truth is that they didn't have access to it.
I think pole-arms would actually be the worst choice, because piercing through armor is difficult and you can't swing the weapon very well for additional force. Whatever force you apply to the object, your machine must endure at the same time.
You can try precision stabs, but the further away you are, the more difficult it is. Therefore pole axes would be vastly superior. You can swing the thing, and you are closer and thus more precise.

>>151958402
What the fuck are you talking about?

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>>151954902
You do realize that these guys reached the point where they were able to weaponize weather patterns by changing them using their mind?

That you not only had one that created a perpetual thunderstorm to act as communication interference/cover, one that when peeved would admit a contentious AOE of the heat from a nuclear blast, reducing everything around it to puddles of molten goop, one that disseminated itself throughout the ocean water so nobody could actually kill it without collecting all it's microscopic parts, and one that froze everything around it while also eroding them with the ice to eat them.

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>>151958759
> Tanks are better when driven by master race, i swear! thats why they lost the war

>>151958829
There's also the risk of snapping your blade, especially if you try to get in between, say, a tank body and its turret.

"Polearm" is just a generic term for "blade on a stick"; poleaxes are a type of polearm.

>>151958402
Elaborate in detail.

>>151958999
>There's also the risk of snapping your blade,
Why are you talking about blades when the post you respond to specifically says "jackhammer" and also mentions that you are not supposed to cut anything?

>>151958996
>British
>master race.

>>151958956
And did they get their vaccinations?

>>151959148
Yes, actually. Hell, if I remember right in the movie one of them actually did try and weaponize disease against another one and another in the series tried to starve another to death.

Festum are slow as fuck on picking up on concepts. It took them roughly 30 years to figure out how to not die in water, but once they do figure something out, they crank it up to 100

>Jack hammers
>Sonic vibrating blades
>Heat edges

Why are you guys going to such over complicated lengths to cut and wedge between armor just to damage the mech with a melee weapon?

Militaries figured out how to melee against an armored target centuries ago. You use something hard and heavy and smash them with it, no need for complicated mechanisms and even penetrating the armor.

Hit an armored target with something like a hammer or mace and even if the armor is relatively undamaged you just shook up the more delicate inside components as well as the meatbag piloting it. You also possibly just knocked it on its ass, letting you hit it some more before it can retaliate.

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>>151959102
its just so sad tanks are inferior to mechs in every way. Denial is a river in egypt but keep tanks away from it because water up to your ankles destroys them

>>151959403
>Hit an armored target with something like a hammer or mace and even if the armor is relatively undamaged you just shook up the more delicate inside components as well as the meatbag piloting it.
No, actually.
Most battles between guys in expensive full plate armor were decided by use of the dagger. That's not to say you can't hurt somebody such an armor with a poleaxe. It's just rather difficult.

>>151959413
because mech are real, right?. Show me how many of your mech can swing. Fly, Shoot a 120mm, Have 1000mm armor.

I'll be waiting here.

How are you to tell me that when we have the tech to make "mech", most of the drawback of the tank don't will be solved?.

With laser even jet fighter will have problem. What make you think that mech don't?.

>>151959507
That was after you smacked them onto their ass. Dagger was the finishing blow after the hard knock landed them on their ass and rattled their senses.

>>151959617
I can't help but think that hammers would be less efficient in mecha battles than they were in medieval battles though. The mecha would be much heavier than humans of the same size would be, so it wouldn't be easy to send them flying, and their armor would have been built with modern ranged weaponry in mind, both large caliber guns and rockets.

>>151959617
>>151959507
Also, the dagger was slipped into a gap in their armor while they were helpless to quickly cut a vital area. Mechs most likely wouldn't bleed to death just by stabbing their "face" or armpit.

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>>151959507
If for some retarded reason an unmounted unit was wearing heavy plate armor, you would hit them with a mace or any beaked hammer like pic related. Plate armor had to be thin enough to not overburden the wearer, so any hit with enough force from a spiked weapon could cause a puncture through the armor and into the juicy bits. Then they'd probably be too fucked from the trauma to keep fighting so you could just kick them down.

>>151959818
That is of course true. But you might disable their weaponry or demobilize them.

>>151959818
Luckily you were clever enough to plunge your dagger into manure before the battle, ensuring the infection kills that cheeky nobleman while you return to tending your crops.

>>151959818
If you could wedge something into a mech's joints then you'd easily bring it down unless we're talking softer sci-fi where the pilot can control and balance the mech like an extension of their body.

>>151959851
Yeah, but try getting a good hit against those curved plates.
>through the armor and into the juicy bits
It's not that simple either.
You have overlapping pieces of armor, sometimes followed by mail, but always followed by a gambeson.
Going through the plate rather than around it was *difficult*.

>>151959776
In which case, these mecha shouldn't be bipedal if they're looking to not be knocked over by a well placed shot from a cannon or hammer. They don't have to be "sent flying" so much as knocked over, which is actually relatively simple to do to the human form no matter how well armored.

>>151959957
Note that I didn't say inefficient. Just less efficient.

>>151959931
>not taking him hostage

>>151959993
Noted.

Heavy armoured knights are to crossbows as mechas are to... pitfalls, I guess?

>>151960008
>a peasant's son holding a nobleman's daughter hostage after their city was sieged
>they never come for ransom and disown her
>she's forced to slowly adjust to simple farm life
I'd watch it.

>>151960211

Also steel wire traps?

>>151960211
>mechas are to...
Handguns, probably.
Crossbows are overhyped. They can't really penetrate good plate armor.
If you hit the opponent at extremely short range, and the bolt hits the plate at a 90° angle and it's one of the thinnest parts of the armor (like the sides of the visor), or if you manage to hit one of the gaps, then your crossbow will be effective.
Otherwise tough luck.

>>151948739
nothing about mechs makes them, in reality, more maneuverable than tanks. also ignores the stupidity of how many shows involve mechs not even being terrestrially bound but instead doing dumb acrobatics in space

also it's a moot point anyway because in the future even if we get mech-like vehicles, they'll almost certainly be drones and not piloted by humans.

>>151960374
Stones were used instead of bolts when dealing with heavy armor. All the convenience of a hammer 25 meters away.

>>151960374

The bigger crossbows that you had to use two hands with had enough force to pierce plate both ways.

>>151960211
There are too many variations of mech to make a solid comparison for that, but if we're talking about anything with even jump jets wouldn't you be able to make gigantic, somehow hidden multi-meter wide pitfalls ineffective by automatically activating the boosters? It'd be a software issue, not even hardware or physics if the machines already exist.

Honestly the future of mechs in a combat role will probably be some sort 4 legged tank slightly smaller (and more importantly lighter weight) than most modern tanks, and made more for being deployed in terrain and areas that it's awkward for tanks to traverse while tracked and wheeled vehicles are still primarily used on more open terrain due to higher speed. Keeping it smaller will also make it easier to transport.

They also probably won't have arms and almost definately won't have some sort of well articulated hand. It will probably just have a turret since a mounted weapon turret is more efficient and less complicated than a humanoid arm holding the weapon.

Basically a larger, piloted version of big dog with a turret. It will also most likely be a drone or at least drone versions will exist the way the military is heading.

>>151961089
The important question is WILL IT HAVE A FACE?

>>151961171
The one the crew paint onto it.

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>>151961171
This is obligatory.

>>151948705
Tanks are cool
Mech are far less cool

Also did you heard abotu willing suspension of disbelief?

>>151961464
I wonder who might be behind this post.

>>151961464
>>151950201

>>151961089
Boston Dynamics ceased the Big Dog project a couple of years back.

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>>151961171

What about using mechas as artillery ? Think Metal Gear Rex.

>>151962011
I didn't mean literally big dog, just a similar quadraped design.

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>>151961171
No, it will have a jet with a tank gun on the front.

>>151962069

Why not just use a hovercraft chassis with missile rack then? Would cost a fucklot less and able to cross soft terrain quickly.

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>>151961089
So basically, a Tachikoma?

>>151962069
>Think Metal Gear Rex
Do your research.
HWR-00 Monster

>>151962308
Yeah but the point is to be able to walk through forests and shit.

>>151962478

>forests

Put a rotating blade in front of a couple? Go around?

>>151962582
What ?