MIYAZAKI TRIGGERED BY 3D ANIMATION DESIGNED TO PUT HIM OUT OF BUSINESS

>>150773662
We have this same thread yesterday.

btfo by that garbage? hopefully not. it's worse than the berserk anime this year.

>>150773699
Link?

>>150773699
Its new to me you nerd

Holy shit Miyazaki schooling those immature brats about life, glorious.

>>150773662
>literally "this triggered me"
What a fucking joke.

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>>150773999
>>150773888
Shit trips.

He's just a bitter old man.

>>150774118
Meme harder.

>that zoom to Miyazaki's eye
Cheesy likes his movies.

I think he's more upset by the fact he realized Japan can't do 3D animation.

Didn't Miyazaki make a comparison to the iPad and masturbation?

>>150774118
>He's just a bitter old man.

They are literally trying to replace artists with machines. He has every right to be upset. They didn't even think about their tech demon could appear they just slapped it up their and said look, we can replace you with a AI.

>>150774238
Well I do view doujins on my tablet, so he's not entirely wrong.

>>150773662

I thought Miyazaki was going to have a good point about why 3d animation is shit.

Instead all I got was

>wahhh this reminds me of my crippled friend thus its bad.

What a pussy. He should have attacked WHY 3D animation is shit instead of talking about his friend.

>>150774328
Congrats you are retarded.

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>>150774176

He really is. I mean I fucking hate 3D animation and I hope it never catches on in Japan. It looks like shit. But fuck Miyazaki for sperging out on those guys. They are experimenting and trying to "create" something that pretentious oldfaggot is constantly bitching about. How nowadays everyone is a consumer and not a creator. Well Mr. Miyazaki you got 3 guys infront of you that are trying to revolutionize animation. He's being a hypocritical artfag. Only reason anyone takes his opinion seriously is because of how overrated his studio is.

The guy has been ranting about technology for years. He's literally an angry old man yelling at the sky. Best thing for him is to retire into obscurity.

>>150774286
>They are literally trying to replace artists with machines.
We've been replacing people with machines for 200 years.
Welcome to the future grandpa.

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>>150773662
3D is disgusting though.
Cel animation was the golden era of anime.

>>150774286
>we can replace you with a AI
It's sad that those lazy fucks honestly think this. They must have absolutely no creative imagination whatsoever. What are they hoping to get animated by a machine eventually, literally just people walking down a hallway and other extremely repetitive animation? I sincerely doubt an AI will ever get more sophisticated than that.

>>150773662
Why is he so grumpy?

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>people want another repeat of last thread's autismo

http://desuarchive.org/a/thread/150754341/

>>150774352

wtf I hate 3d animation now

>>150774373
Art is a reflection of the human condition, its not something that we should replace machines. Its the same as having a robot write a song. Sure we can do it but why?

The machine is not trying to communicate with us like an artist does. There is no conversation. We lose something of ourselves in the process when we give up that which makes us human. .

>>150773662
We had this thread a dozen of times already, fuck off.

>artfags literally using the "t-theres no way a machine can replace a human soul!" argument
You fucks are so ignorant is hilarious.

>>150774409
You could probably get a Markov chain to write a halfway decent isekai story.

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>>150774409

Nice borderline retarded comment there Miyazaki dick rider.

However unappealing 3D animation is, those three are trying to create something quite sophisticated. Calling them 'lazy fucks' shows your lack of understand of what an undertaking it would be to create an A.I. that can animate as good as a person without any direction. If they did this it could potentially change 3D animation for the better. Of course, it's a pipe dream in our current age but it's better than being a pretentious old artist and putting people down for trying something new.

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Miyazaki reminds me of this page of Gantz.

>>150773662
>http://desuarchive.org/a/thread/150754341/
>making the same thread again

Come on m8

>>150774328
There has never been a good point as to why 3D is inherently bad, trust me. I know some people bitch when it's overly done in 2D, but that's just because it wasn't incorporated well enough. All "arguments" against 3D are just muh feels and not muh 2D. The process of creating 3D well enough, like they do with Pixar, goes through the same process as 2D, perhaps a whole lot more, so the argument that it's not good enough just isn't valid.

>a machine can replace the thought and soul of an animator getting paid 3 bucks per hour working 17 hours a day

>>150774559
>Calling them 'lazy fucks' shows your lack of understand of what an undertaking it would be to create an A.I. that can animate as good as a person without any direction
To me they are lazy because they obviously aren't creative. Rather than do what it takes to become more creative, they would rather write a program like dull codemonkeys so they can tell the most primitive creativity-lacking stories possible.

>>150774524
That machine is made by human programmers, mongoloid. It just doesn't randomly spawn.

>>150774534
It's like when carfags are presented with a modern grocery getter that's faster than some decades old death trap and go all "it's got no soul and character "

>>150774688
>Engineering a full IA isn't a creative process
>only art is a creative endeavor
You're a fucking retard.
Check the definition of "engineering" and kill yourself afterwards.

>>150774524
This is just pure sophistry.

>>150774701
They were demonstrating an AI that learned to walk on its own. The whole purpose of their display was to show how they could develop a program to do something.

Its the same with Googles AI they developed to write songs that emulate classic composers. Sure it may sound like them but their is nothing to it. The computer is not trying to convey any meaning like the original artist.

The work is hollow

>>150774632

I can't necessarily agree with you because I haven't seen a good example of 3D even from Disney/Pixar. I just think it looks ugly.

The reason I got into anime is because I thought the style of 80s/90s anime looked cool and thought it was cool in motion.

Traditional animation is just more colorful, vibrant, full of imperfections but that is part of the appeal.

I think the only way to get me to like 3D animation is if they can blend it so seamlessly into 2D work that I don't even notice it.

>>150774688
Foune the humanities major.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4-6YI04IiE
It's not like Miyazaki hates all technology, he uses it for his movies sometimes. For exemple computer program was used in some scenes of Princess Mononoke with the demon god's worms. He just prefer to go by hand animation as much as he can.
It's hard to tell with only the short clip but their presentation didn't seem very well thought out.

>>150773662
seems all he does is whine lately. His last movie about planes was kind of bad too

>>150773662
AHAHAH what a close minded asshole.

It sadly is true. You've got to wait for a generation to blow up before things can really move forward.

>>150773662
absolutely no mercy

>>150774736
In this particular context it is barely creative. How can you argue that it is? They clearly want to just automate certain people's jobs and they observe good animation as being something repetitive and easy to replicate with a machine, which is just not the case for anything above the most primitive works out there.

If you're defending those idiots you're advocating for lower quality standards in Japanese animation. Prepare to see more horrendous blunders like Berserk 2016.

>>150774688
"Dull code monkeys" write CRUD corporate shit, web apps and other mundane stuff. Engineers and actual programmers solve complex problems in creative, efficient ways.

>>150773662
He sounds like a washed up old man who can't keep up with time.

>>150774943
>In this particular context it is barely creative. How can you argue that it is?
You think an IA is something that you just brainlessly make by copying code from stack overflow or something?
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, advanced and sophisticated IAs would prevent a blunder like Berserk 2016 while delivering animation at a nice quality and efficiently, so the humans can actually waste their time on actual creative stuff like planning the storyboard and direction.

>>150774524
>Sure we can do it but why?

Why not? If the robot surpasses humans, then humans should learn from it. If the robot is worse than humans, then why should they feel threatened by it?

Can't stand a little competition?

>>150775105
A sufficiently advanced AI could generate the stories and stories as well, so why do we need humans to write them? Taken to the extreme why do we even need humans to read them?

A human knows what suffering is so naturally they should be the ones who attempt to capture suffering in art. Art is a dialogue between the creator and the viewer. If you replace one with AI then it becomes a pointless endeavor. You are no longer producing art, you are producing a commodity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V59VXRN1YnU

Why is he so moe? (And what's the deal with the goats?)

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Is this post-post-modern art?

>>150773662
Miyazaki is disgusting. He just has to be THAT guy.

>>150774943

I'm not defending their project. That shit looked like babies first step into Maya. Those kids looked like College Freshmen.

What I'm defending is their dream. Miyazaki didn't give out any constructive criticism for their project. All he did was get triggered and draw up a strawman argument about his crippled friend and how this somehow correlates to their project and trivializing crippled people.

I'm sure at one point in his life Miyazaki was seen as a maveric with radical ideas towards animation. Now he's the guy that puts down those kids with crazy ideas. Nobody is saying that it be great if animators are completely replaced by machines but it would be fascinating to see someone create an A.I. that is as sophisticated as a human being in terms of animation.

It's also worth noting that just because it's an A.I. doing the work doesn't mean the animation will look like Berserk 2016. An A.I. with a sophisticated drawing & animation algorithm could potentially replicate hours of human labor of hand drawn slides. It could be used to assist a human animator. Not replace them.

>>150775369
>Deep/learning

>>150775393
>THAT guy
/a/?

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>WAAAAAAAAAAAH PROGRESS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

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It's literally this scene, and he's right.

>>150775105
>so the humans can actually waste their time on actual creative stuff
>waste their time
You aren't fooling anyone, codemonkey. We know you're just looking to automate and replace other peoples' jobs rather than provide more complex and better toolsets for artists.

If art is an expression and creating machines that can draw is an expression in itself, it is the expression of an age that lacks integrity and depends on automated systems to do things for them.

Another thing that is being underminded here is the impressiveness of an artist that goes above and beyond for his work. Seeing something that looks amazing and like it took an entire person's life to master their craft and be able to execute is impressive and is part of the experience of art. A very complex program is impressive too, but intellectually so. It's cool to see but it doesn't have the same effect, and the works created by it will not carry that same effect. We lose that part of the experience of art from machines. And that is a huge part of the experience, the biggest defining influence of the culture that surrounds art and continues to push it even higher. Eliminate that and you will see a drop in quality, not an improvement.

>>150775417
>It could be used to assist a human animator. Not replace them.

He has used electronic tools in his animation before. He has no problem with tools assisting animators. What he does not want to see is animators replaced with AI.

>>150775361
I don't see how commodities are pointless.

>>150774524
Sorry bro. I know you think humans are some kind of special snowflake in the universe, but we're not.

Lmao GOAT video. The look on their faces to try and come up with a response. That ending was savage.

Part 1: Anime was a mistake.

Part 2: AI CG was a mistake.

Will there be a trilogy? Find out on the next action packed episode of Hayao Miyazaki Z!

>>150774409

Its for a video game you moron. AI based animation is incredible and holds so much potential in an interactive medium. They were idiots to show it to Miyazaki who cant even entertain the idea of it.

>>150775361
>A sufficiently advanced AI could generate the stories and stories as well, so why do we need humans to write them?
We don't need them, people will still write stories when they have something to tell, it won't ever stop, the ones that will be fucked will be the hacks that just write garbage to cash in, absolutely nothing of value will be lost.

Nice how you skipped over the point by the way, autistically drawing 200000 frames that are barely different from each other is not a creative endeavor, and I'm assuming in the future those will be the first jobs in the industry to be replaced when we get software that can do it with an optimal output quality

You're relating 3D animation to the shit you've seen until now because you're n ignorant fuck that doesn't realize that 3D animation nowadays is shit precisely because the algorithms are mediocre.

>>150773662
I think one can vehemently disagree with Miyazaki's personal views while still respecting the work that he's made. Too many times in this fandom anime fans have this polarized view of Miyazaki where you have to have this unflinching adoration of him and it's a blasphemy to say anything negative about him. On the other hand, you have fans who despise Miyazaki the man so much that they can't even bring themselves to say one positive thing about his movies and they'll completely write off all of his filmography because of their ideological differences with him. I think either outright hatred or outright idolization of Miyazaki isn't healthy for anime fandom and we need to take a more nuanced view of Miyazaki's legacy. Having said that, given how well known Miyazaki's hatred of CGI is, I'm not sure why anyone would show him this barely finished project to try and change his mind on CGI. They should have at least showed him a finished product for him to be able to fairly judge it. On the other hand, I think Miyazaki is being entirely unreasonable in completely writing off any project like this based on this very short barely started work. I'm also not sure why Miyazaki brought up the point about his disabled friend but it was entirely awkward and frankly rather offensive of him to try and use the troubles disabled people go through to insult somebody' else's work. And you can just tell how much everyone in this room is now despising Miyazaki after his reaction to them.

>>150774286
Oh how awful
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing_press

Miyazaki's like those hippie aliens from Star Trek: Insurrection that said "we believe when you make a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from that man". He's well documented as a technophobe

>>150775545
They are not pointless, but they are not art. Humans create art. Its one of the ways we communicate with each other. It helps bridge the gap that every human faces when trying to understand the mind of another.

What is a machine trying to communicate to you when it creates a story, or draws a picture?

>>150774524
How do you define machine? How much automation involved so a work could not be called art? Are you saying cinema is not the 7th art? You're so wrong I don't know where to begin. Bash the idiots who use such bad quality engine, not the effort to create one.
The argument sounds exactly like analog vs digital cameras.

>>150774360
>"We made an AI drag around a ragdoll"
>"This is fucking garbage"
>"Someday this will replace you Miyazaki."

>>150775519
>If art is an expression and creating machines that can draw is an expression in itself, it is the expression of an age that lacks integrity and depends on automated systems to do things for them.
>m-muh feelings
>Another thing that is being underminded here is the impressiveness of an artist that goes above and beyond for his work.
>m-muh technique

How to spot an art major: the post

In an interview in the July issue of “Neppuu”, the Studio Ghibli published pamphlet, the famed animator does not pull any punches when discussing the iPad, or what he calls the “game machine-like thing” that people are “stroking with strange gestures”.

“For me, there is no feeling of admiration or no excitement whatsoever,” Miyazaki said about the iPad. “It’s disgusting. On trains, the number of those people doing that strange masturbation-like gesture is multiplying.”

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> *TRIGGERED*

He should just shut the fuck up already. He even proved himself wrong in the video by talking about his friend. A Zombie would have rigor mortis and his muscles wouldn't work, just like his friend's which proves the technology works well.

>>150775514
If you love nature so much why don't you go back to the jungle you stupid ape?
Fucking hypocrites, they're okay with having internet and smartphones yet they have the gull to diss technology and advancement. Fucking subhumans I swear.

>>150775770
>"We made an AI drag around a ragdoll"
>"This is fucking garbage"
>"Someday this will replace you Miyazaki."

>>150775417
>Miyazaki was seen as a maveric with radical ideas towards animation
At what point of his career do you suppose this happened?

Don't throw baseless shit out there.

>>150775477
>Yeah, just autimate everything involved in the artistic process
>All anime will be CGshit, and if it's "2D" it'll look like western cartoons made in flash
>Nothing to worry about, it's just progress!

>>150774524
>Art is a reflection of the human condition

What does modern art say about those who make it?

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/full-comment/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-robson-modern-art-is-garbage-and-it-stinks

>>150774286
talentless hack spotted.

>>150775832
>"We made an AI learn how to drag around like a ragdoll by itself"
>"This reminds me of my crippled friend so it's horrible"

>>150774524

>machines cant reflect the human condition

Surely you realize that art is physically impossible without technology. Can't make music without instruments, paintings without brushes, etc. Just because humans are one more degree removed doesn't make it any different.

>>150773662
he is so mad

>>150774524
>Sure we can do it but why?

Because why not? Why do people create art to begin with?

Because we want to.

>>150775615
The man himself has used computers in the past to assist in production, the video was posted earlier in this threat. The whole purpose of this AI is not to assist animators its to eventually replace them.

>>150775672
>He's well documented as a technophobe
Only when they don't have wings.

>>150775714
What does cinema have to do with this?

>>150775741
I was an IT major with a concentration in web development and a minor in digital humanities (interface study courses).

>m-muh feelings
>m-muh technique
Do you know what we are discussing here? Art is about emotion and technique you colossal retard. If you're going to mock that, you don't belong anywhere's near art.

>>150775369
your grandpa didn't die in guadalcanal for this.

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>>150775741

Inferiority complex is the soul of an artist. It's not that surprising that they would get triggered by the concept of an A.I. doing their work better than them.

Modern Art needs a serious overhaul. It's been nothing but 'muh feefees' since the cancerous Picasso movement. Classical art needs to make a comeback. There's a reason why nobody takes art students seriously anymore.

>>150775687
>but they are not art
And?

>>150775953
Art has jack to do with technique.

>>150775843

I was being facetious you fucking tard. Trying to make a point that Miyazaki was young once too, at least I hope.

>>150773662
Doubt he hates CG

he has used it in his movies

he's friends with the guy who founded pixar

his next film is cgi

hell the only reason why he hates the video in qustion is for some reason it reminds him of a disabled friend

>>150775938
>The whole purpose of this AI is not to assist animators its to eventually replace them.
If this AI becomes capable of delivering animation at a better quality than animators then it'll eventually happen and no one will complain.
The only reason people is against it is out of the absurd notion that human animation has some quality intrinsically related to the human condition that makes it unimitable by a machine, just because we haven't seen a machine capable of doing so yet.

>>150775990
>There's a reason why nobody takes art students seriously anymore.
>people say this while watching game of thrones, listen to music, and read comics/manga

>>150775901
Jesus Christ, are people really this fucking stupid? Are you the same idiots who think that CG modeling is "just another tool" for animators to use, despite being a completely different skillset and thus not allowing talented animators to actually draw things, but rather call for some riggers to make shitty models dance?

Do you really not see how some things are automated and the person doing them doesn't matter, but others require human input for the sake of creativity and passion? I'm a biomedical researcher, and the thought of a bunch of idiots on the internet pretending "Science and automation are the ultimate progress!" and that the human element can be removed from all creation make me sick to my stomach.

>>150776127
>he has used it in his movies
Rarely. And reluctantly. He hates CG.

>>150773662
Maybe if they've used better example, his views in AI might've been a bit better.

Seriously, what were thinking?

>>150776142
>every piece of art ever was made by an art student
Someone with a skill and something to say makes art.
Someone without skill and without something to say but with the desire to feel superior studies art.

>>150776167

So is music haram because singers can't transfer their skills to instruments? Fuck off.

>>150775990
>It's been nothing but 'muh feefees' since the cancerous Picasso movement. Classical art needs to make a comeback.

Art is about standing out from the crowd and there is no way better to stand out than to go against everything that is considered "Art" at the time.

Art will unavoidably go back to its roots.

>>150776167
Jesus Christ, are people really this fucking stupid? Are you the same idiots who think that printing is "just another tool" for writers to use, despite being a completely different skillset and thus not allowing talented writers to actually write words, but rather call for some German publishers to make shitty lead blocks dance?

Do you really not see how some things are automated and the person doing them doesn't matter, but others require human input for the sake of creativity and passion? I'm a leech doctor, and the thought of a bunch of idiots on the internet pretending "Science and automation are the ultimate progress!" and that the human element can be removed from all creation make me sick to my stomach.

>>150776167
>I'm a biomedical researcher
No you're not

>>150776127
>>150776168
He doesn't hate CG, he hates to see traditional animation die out.

>>150776130
>The only reason people is against it is out of the absurd notion that human animation has some quality intrinsically related to the human condition that makes it unimitable by a machine

One of the primary purposes of art is the artist trying to communicate something to the viewer. A machine could create an identical work but their is no communication with another human.

Half of what makes art great is the discussion that revolves around it. With a machine doing all the work there is no intent, nothing to discuss, beyond that the AI was programmed to generate something

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>>150776142
>anymore

>>150776011
You can't be fucking serious, dude. You don't know a god damn thing about art then.

To be clear, I do think that the end creation is what is most important. But an appreciation of the artist's methods and tools has always been a part of the appreciation of art. This is why people still like hand-crafted sculpture, physical pieces of art, architecture, works that took a human hundreds of hours to finish or hundreds of humans to finish, woodblock prints, etc. This is why there is the endless argument of authenticity in the art world among artists and art critics.

>>150776064
You were trying to imply that he was acting hypocritical for putting down young animators with new technology, as though he at some point was vindicated after being panned for trying something new, which is wrong.

His career has been traditional as fuck, always using the methods of the times and what came before.

>>150776168

OK what about the other two points

If he hated CG with all his soul why would he be friends with the guy who founded pixar

and why is his next film going to be CG instead of hand drawn

>>150773662

This translation is wrong. Are you people retarded? And you call yourselves weebs. Learn some Japanese.

>>150776282
>>I'm a biomedical researcher

>>150776271
>I'm a leech doctor

what happened here

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>people saying 3d anime is inherently shit

It's just that 99% of the time it's lazily done. It's possible to do well.

I've never actually watched webm related, but to me at least this looks well done, at least for the characters (watch the whole webm. The fact that they are 3d models doesn't stick out like a sore thumb because the filters and shaders flattens them out enough to blend them into the background, and the animation itself is nice and fluid instead of being choppy and stiff as balls as most 2d in anime is. In fact, what they are doing here would be outright infeasible with 2d animation.

Another good example, that I have seen for myself, is what cyberconnect 2 does. They make video games, not anime, but what they excel at is absurdly well animated cutscenes and attack animations, which is something that they could obviously just make an anime with.

Here's a 3d anime short they did for some animation festival: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-PudD1UrvU

A better example would be Asura's Wrath, which was a video game they did back in 2012 which was essentially just a interactive anime. The missions were called episodes, they had mid episode commercial bumpers, at the end, they had a "next time on" preview, and it was as much cutscenes and QTE's as it was gameplay. Despite it being absolutely medicore as a game, it was amazingly fun to watch just due to the absurdity of the animations and scale of what was going on. Even though it was still clearly 3d and would stick out as such purely as an anime, unlike the short above I think it would still be a good watch. They also do the Naruto games, which do have a flattened cel shaded look to them, which would work well as a 3d anime in style.

>>150774813
Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRU_J5qYg0 ,k it's a companion short to the CC2 one. It's 3d, but most of the time you can barely tell it, and if you paused it, you wouldn't know it at all. It's not that amazingly animated, though.

>>150776409
That looks like garbage. At least use Kingslaive or that FF7 movie as your examples.

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>>150776409
another webms of that anime

>>150776360
>If he hated CG with all his soul why would he be friends with the guy who founded pixar

That guy singlehandedly brought his movies to the US. He's the reason Miyazaki won an oscar.

>>150776271
The way you look at things is retarded. It's not about removing the human element, it's about freeing humans from doing certain things, they can still do them. It's a form of abstraction. People will get to concentrate their time on doing more interesting things.
AI and space exploration are the ultimate tests of our species, even a retard like you must understand that.

>>150776409
It looks fucking atrocious, anon.

>>150776311
>One of the primary purposes of art is the artist trying to communicate something to the viewer.
Not true at all, since the 20th century there have been artistical movements like aleatoricism going against that belief, that's just what you care about, most people just care about the end result.

>Half of what makes art great is the discussion that revolves around it.
Instead of figuring out what the artist that made it wanted to say people will try to figure out what the guy that programmed the machine tried to say.
Not even an argument.

>You can't be fucking serious, dude. You don't know a god damn thing about art then.
Utterly ignorant, for centuries the importance of technique and skill has been slowly waning from art, precisely thanks to technology.
When you have machines that are capable of doing what you do, you can't count on impressing people with something as pointless as technique anymore, so you have to look into other ways, plenty of artistic movements on different mediums on the 20th century came from that (perhaps most notably in painting, thanks to photography).
People will be impressed at someone moving their hands fast on a piano, but ultimately won't care if they don't like how it sounds, the same with everything else, technique is ultimately irrelevant as long as it's good enough.

>>150776347

What are you his fucking biographer? I well aware that he is a traditionalist. I also know that he hasn't been making his movies in the same exact way that he's been making them since his first one. He's a hypocrite who uses CG in his movies while ranting about how it's going to drive animators out of business. He's only a traditionalist when it suits him.

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>>150776472
And some Asura's Wrath stuff

>>150776469
>>150776523
Niether of those are "anime" though, that's just a CGI film, like pixar movies.

Anyways, did you actually watch the entire webm? I have a hard time believing that you honestly think it looks bad. The shading on the models makes them not stick out super terribly in most shots, and the animation itself is very fluid.

The only parts of that that look bad to me is near the start where the crystal shatters, the shot from overhead when they are on the iron beam or whateer, and then towards the end looking at them from the side after the catgirl crashed.

Every other scene/shot looks great.

>>150776409
Wait, that webm is supposed be an example of a well done 3d anime scene? It looks like fucking ass.

>>150776167
>I'm a biomedical researcher
Enjoy NEETdom

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>>150776645
Second asura's wrath webm

>>150776655
What about it looks like ass then? See what I wrote in >>150776645

>>150776655

Japan honestly has sub-standard CGI capabilities. Not just in movies, but in games as well. They need to learn to model better.

>Died to micolash
Instability frames were a mistake

>>150776689
Simply put, has the same issues that has always plagued 3d integrated with 2d. The models stick out like crazy, it looks like I'm seeing two different layers of animation, one 2d and one 3d, it doesn't mesh well. I mean, it's not as bad as the Golgo movie helicopter scene, but it's still pretty fucking atrocious.

>>150776599
Aletoricism is just the introduction of randomness or chance into the art. It has nothing to do with elimination the artist attempting to communicate with the viewer.

Just because you let your subconsciousness take over does not mean you are not trying to communicate something

> ultimately won't care if they don't like how it sounds, the same with everything else, technique is ultimately irrelevant as long as it's good enough.

We are not talking about tools to help an artist, we are talking about an AI that would eventually replace an artist

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>>150775477
>western miyazaki

I agree that Miyazaki was being a little too harsh on these guys, but Mckellen had good reason to start crying. He started as a theatre actor which requires playing off of the people around you.

But he had to sit in a little green screen room and just talk to himself while pretending he was surrounded by other actors. Relatively newer actors have little problem with this, but for someone who's been in this business as long as he was it was hard to do.

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>>150775832
> AI makes something that's supposed to be grotesque and disgusting
> Miyazaki is disgusted by it
> Doesn't realize that's the whole point

Let's face it, if they had made the AI animate a naked 12 year old he'd be all over it

>>150776689
Do you seriously think this looks good? Like, could you watch the storm scene and Ponyo and the earthquake in Wind Rises, then watch this, and honestly say that they're all good? Seriously? It disgusts me that this could ever be considered good animation. At least post Pixar or something, but even then it's utterly soulless.

>>150776491
But this is miyazaki, do you really think that would stop him
showing his disgust

Also did some digging and found a video where he talks about Up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDJr8brI7a8

Don't 100% what he says but id the place I founded it at is right

his overall impressions where

> It's a film that is encouraging and gives energy to old people.

>>150776933
>He started as a theatre actor which requires playing off of the people around you.

Most people have never actually been to a stage play so they have no idea how different an experience it is. Watching the actor live a performance in front of your eyes and seeing all the little changes and imperfections is beautiful.

Its so different from a movie that has been cut and spliced, not saying its better or worse, but its very different and not enough people appreciate the skill

>>150776824
>Aletoricism is just the introduction of randomness or chance into the art.
Yes, and by adding random elements you're reducing the artist input into the final work, meaning that whatever message it had gets diluted.
Stuff like 4'33'' doesn't even have any artist input on it, it's just background noise.
>Just because you let your subconsciousness take over does not mean you are not trying to communicate something
What are you talking about? Adding elements out of the control of the composer isn't anything related to his subconsciousness.
One of the main points of aleatoricism was to make music composed with the environment, not out of a composer, it wasn't a human making a message, styling it up and delivering it as a piece of art, but the environment itself making the work of art out of pure randomness.

>We are not talking about tools to help an artist, we are talking about an AI that would eventually replace an artist
That other anon said that technique was one of the main draws of human artistry, something that is both shallow and wrong. Watching someone have good technique at something might be cool, but it's not different than watching someone do a cool trick that requires a ton of practice, it has jack to do with art.

>>150774286
>They are literally trying to replace artists with machines.

Good. Machines should replace mankind and rule this planet.

Hi Famicom reply to this post pls

>>150776988
What's bad about it then faggo
>soulless
nevermind, almost fell for it.

>>150776814
Aside from the shots I mentioned, I really don't think it suffers from it at all. Yes, there's still a sense of mismatch, but not to the point where it's bad.

You need to keep in mind that part of the goal with animation is to have a sense of depth to begin with. To a degree, you want that sort of mismatch of layering. In that webm, aside from the particular parts I pointed out as bad, I feel like there's just enough of it that it adds a sense of depth preception, without being so severe that it's obviously 3d and out of place. It looks smooth and meshes well, at least to me.

For the Asura's Wrath webm and CC2 short I linked on youtube, yeah, that's certainly an issue, but I also don't thik that in their cases that's necessarily even a problem or a deal breaker. The animation itself in those is so engaging that, at least to me, it's not a problem/distracting.

What about the CG short from the other company I linked to?

>>150774524
>Art is a reflection of the human condition,

Was.
Soon machines will make superior art and remove mankind out of the picture for good.
Humans only exist to eventually create intelligent machines and then fuck off forever.

>>150773809

There's an insite archive.
>>150754341

>>150776824
If the AI is better, who cares? What's inferior will not survive. Humanity technological achievement in the 20th century is so great that many traditional handicrafts have died. We don't care. Maybe some like you do.

>>150777195
CGI is mechanical and expressionless, "soulless" is an absolutely valid complaint.

>>150773699
Despite not being so civil, the two guys in this thread made pretty good points.

>>150774534
This.
What they call "soul" serves as nothing more than a mask to cover their own being. "Soul" is just something used to preserve those positive emotions that they occasionally feel.
Another possibility is that "soul" is a concept they conveniently borrowed under the logic that it would endow them with some sense of strength.

Those kids are faggots for showing that to Miyazaki. I don't blame him for being pissed.

That said, if they can build something that actually makes better looking visuals with less cost, good on them. Otherwise, it's useless garbage.

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>>150777342
Except the character expressions on every webm I posted are fine.

Well, maybe in those asura's wrath webms, it doesn't do a good job of showing it, but the game has impressively fluid facial animation. here's a better example in that department, though obviously the gameplay at the start of it isn't what you need to be paying attention to.

>Mechanical

Explain how it's mechanical, the animation is super fluid and the movements have an appropriate amount of weight and inertia to them, Way better then most 2d animation does, actually.

That's something 3d is actually good for, since you can do actual kinematics and physics simulations with it, as well as motion capture.

the only software we need does a decent enough job of tweening interpolation with minimal require corrections. that will actually make no discernible difference to the final result but will free up capacities and animators who can be trained to become key animators, which is the actual bottle neck position in anime production

>>150776292
I more tribute it to he hates seeing the techniques/skills die out and what he see's (not me) as animators becoming more and more lazy (not gonna debate for or against that, don't want to start one of those arguments)

>>150774524
>Its the same as having a robot write a song. Sure we can do it but why?
same reason we build machines (ie. flutes, piano, guitar electric or not...) to make music.

"I strongly feel that it is an insult to life itself."

Good meme.

>>150777532
>Explain how it's mechanical
He's mistaking the imperfections of traditional animation with meaningfulness.
It's basically the "24fps vs 48fps" debate all over again, they're just not used to it but to have a point they make up a bunch of qualities inherently subjective and attribute them to their preferred form while dishing the other.

>>150776933
Maybe little buttercup should've spent a fraction of the millions he gets on a coach if he can't deal with changes

>>150773699

Why am I not surprised considering Miyazaki is a trigger issue for /a/ shitposters

>>150777644
There is an argument to be made that the artificial nature of the 24fps allows the viewer to more easily suspend disbelief. 48fps is like looking the world, when you watch a movie at 48fps it almost looks hyper-real.

Subjectively it removes you from the experience of the cinema. Its an interesting tool but not necessarily one I would want to watch every move in

>>150773662

He sounds too much like an empathetic human being for todays industry

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>>150777532
Actually, here's the same webm with the gameplay removed, just so retards can't be dumb and point to that as being bad.

>>150777644
Asura's wrath IS only running at 30fps though. It's not even an issue of framerate. It's litterally just animated better, that's all.

It's the opposite of being mechanical, it's more organic.

>>150775658

You could have just as easily stopped at polarized to describe anime fandom and still have reached the same point really. Needless to say as someone who is capable of holding non-polar positions on a matter I agree, but most anime fans probably can't.

>>150777532
Expressive as in being expressed by an artist as opposed to synthesized by a machine. There is no human element and it doesn't feel like there's a human element. It's not about fluidity of movement or physics simulations, it's about creativity and beauty. Would you honestly want to watch a movie done up in Asura's Wrath's style? Would you be able to watch said movie and tell me it's as well animated as one of Miyazaki's films? CG has its place in a lot of things, like video games or the sciences, but not art.

"I feel like we are nearing to the end of times. We humans are losing faith in ourselves..." -Hayao "Crawling in My Skin" Miyazaki

the whole point of the animation was to produce something unsettling and uncanny for use in horror games or films. uncanniness is generally one of the only scary parts of a video game (horror games or otherwise), people can get comfortable plowing through jump scares but when something seems unintentional or breaking the rules it makes our brains freak out.

miyazaki wants to relate to real people in his works, it's only natural that he reacts this way against this stuff.

So like how many people actually watched the video to see the specific reason why he felt offended by the model as a veteran animator and considering the things he and his generation tended to focus on when it comes to character movements. It's in there and pretty obvious but it seems like yet again /a/ is just making up it's own reasons for it's own convenience.

>it's funny to make fun of an old man: the thread
not much better than people who think hurting hobos or stray cats is funny

>>150777918
>no human element
Thise animations don't pop up out of thin air you know

>>150777918
So what do you think an animator is trying to express when his boss tells him to draw the in-betweens of 5 keyframes if he wants to eat?

>>150776735

Almost all of it uses motion capture elements to convey more "realistic" movements but considering Japanese live action actors tendency to chew the scenery and gesticulate it often just comes across looking more awkward and uncanny valley than it should.

>>150777952
Those kids should have better understood who their audience was for the presentation. They presented their product as an AI to replace the work of an artist and he rightfully took offence.

His whole bit about the handicap man was important. The computer animation in question was offensive because it was grotesque without context. It was a depiction of human suffering without the component of being constructed by an AI who does not understand that suffering.

Like you said he spends his whole life trying to get people to relate to his work, how could people relate to the AI

>>150778102
What point are you trying to make and why is it relevant?

>>150778157
That your post is bullshit, I thought it was clear.

>>150778153
*It was a depiction of human suffering being constructed by an AI who does not understand that suffering.

>>150777007
>But this is miyazaki, do you really think that would stop him showing his disgust

Money talks. Also, just because he's friends with Lassetar doesn't mean he likes his works.

He likes Anno but don't think he likes Evangelion.

How does this old faggot always trigger all of /a/?

>>150777615
music is very limited and has many formulas that can be followed that enables machines to create music well. If it it comes to animation and story however then it's basically impossible for a machine to be programmed to freely create a show that has the intention to convey certain feelings than what a man made show would be. The options our minds have are limitless compared to that of an anime making machine regardless of how capable it is of continuous learning and so forth.

>>150778267
It's the same divide you see in this board and others. Those that view animation as art and those that view it as only entertainment.

He perfectly encapsulates that divide

>>150775546
I mean until we know otherwise we kinda are.

>>150778313
>music is very limited
The fuck you're talking about?
Every art medium has formulas that can be followed.

>>150777881
also, to respond to >>150777789

That's true, but that "soap oprea effect" is avoidable. I've seen footage of real life people taken at higher framerates where it's a non issue, wheras other times it does bug me, but usually after a few seconds my brain just fixes it for me and it just looks like normal video, just smoother.

The way you fix it is artificially adding in motion blur in post processing. I don't have a webm on me, but I saw one once that compares a hand waving back and forth in a game at different framerates with differing amounts of motion blurred applied.

At 60fps, the hand movement was unautally smooth, because in real life, with our actual vision, we have motion blur, wheras looking at a screen, no such motion blur exists unless it also is there in the footage itself. So it needs to be artifically added.

Currently, with most high framerate films, it's not, so that's why it looks like shit.

>>150776735
The CG in shin godzilla was baffling. In some scenes it looked incredible, the best CG i've ever seen, with Godzilla having all the best elements of CG and pratical effects at once with none of the drawbacks in either, but in other scenes, it looked godawful, like a bad Syfy movie or something from the 80/'s/90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66SAVZ4JxY8

>>150778208
What does the shitty animation industry have to do with anything?

>Miyazaki sits in on a presentation watching as a robot attempts to communicate with a person
>"Hello I am robot, hello, I am... thing"
>The robot struggles
>Miyazaki looks more concerned
>The person presenting the demo explains "It's not very good at it right now but it's interesting to see how it's learning, perhaps at this early stage it could be used to generate horror dialog"
>"I am robot.. I like... to hug y-y-... a-a-a-aaaaafkeopwfjg" the robot stutters
>Miyazaki looks visibly disgruntled
>"I have a friend I meet everyday, not everyday now, who is autistic and can't speak well. Frankly speaking, looking at this robot disgusts me and is an insult. The people who make this are disgusting and have no concept of what other people feel."
>The creators, sitting near by try to clarify "We don't mean to insult anybody it's just an earlier work and it doesn't have to be used for anything"
>Miyazaki puzzled asks "Then what do you want to create from this?"
>The creators smile and say "We want to create robots that can communicate with humans and help them"
>"I'm worried for the future of the human race"

>>150778231
I don't think he has ever made a comment on Eva and if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure he's friends with anno simply on his animation abilities

Plus to video linked he seemed to like Up at least

>>150778441
>implying I'm friends with Miyazaki

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>>150778441
>>150778485

>>150778441
and a new copypasta is born

>>150778369
If you bother looking into music theory you will understand. Music is so limited that practically every song is copying another to a degree. The only way to break this limit is micro tunes but I haven't really heard any song do that. But shows and visual art break limits a lot more easily. You can follow formulas but you don't have to do so as strictly as with music and many also do not. Basically, it's fucking stupid to try compare machine made music to machine made art/tv.

>>150778313
Machines are useless for music. It's understandable to use machines to eliminate the more tedious animation work involved, but writing music? That's retarded. Making music is not a repetitive process and it takes little time to make a little chime for a commercial or whatever. I don't see what machines can do for music.

I don't think Miyazaki understood the point of the demonstration.

>>150778772
Honestly I don't get why they showed him, he's the least likely person to get it

>>150778754
An example of google deepminds music it composed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8UawLT4it0

>>150778699
>If you bother looking into music theory you will understand.
The only reason someone would believe your retarded statement is precisely if they hadn't looked into music theory.
Or at least, music theory beyond the Classical period.
>Music is so limited that practically every song is copying another to a degree.
This is literally wrong.
Popular music destined to the masses follow certain standards because those are what uneducated plebeians have shown to prefer, but that's no different from any other medium, the only genre of music that could be considered strictly defined by formulas/algorithms is serialism, the posibilities of music, especially contemporary music beyond the 20th century are as endless as anything else.

>start working for Ghibli
>one day you can show your life project to Miyazaki
>it's CGI featuring lolis in swimswuits and big jiggly boobs
>he tells you it's disgusting
>later when no one is around he grabs you and ask for a copy

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>>150778370
>>150777789
>>150777644
Found the webm

>>150777918
Have you ever even touched 3d software?

>Would you honestly want to watch a movie done up in Asura's Wrath's style?
Considering I watched the entire game on youtube, all 12 hours of it, and I had more fun doing that then I had anything else in years, yeah, I fucking would.

Maybe you should try it.

>>150773662
Oh no, he values human emotion over technology.

>>150773699

And the day before too

>>150779252
Someday too, the robots will say the same about you

Am I the only one who hates western 3D animation and doesn't watch it?

>>150778754
I am not saying they aren't good or bad for music as it's not what I am arguing about. I agree with you that machines make really shitty music

>>150778935
In the end what you say is true but not true to your original point. Ultimately music is sound, but many and I would consider your examples of endless options as only sound, a separated category of music (but that's more opinion) It's also odd to have a robot limited to what it's programmed with to try and make limitless music. In the end it's inferior to man made music then just like anime.

>>150774118
This. Can't wait until he dies.

>>150773662
>retards missing the point
I am utterly disgusted at you /a/

>>150778441
Is this what he thinks about vocaloid

>>150775892

Miyazaki seems more disrespectful to his disabled friend than those guys

>>150777918
>CG has its place in a lot of things, like video games or the sciences, but not art.
Now you just proved that you are completely autistic and should kill yourself right now.

>>150779616
>In the end what you say is true but not true to your original point. Ultimately music is sound
Yes, the medium of music is sound.
This is why most "artistic IA" focus on music, because for a computer, sampling soundwaves and digitally altering them is mundany, they only have to worry about the logical layer but that doesn't mean is limited, the number of ways you can represent a mechanical wave are mathematically infinite.
>It's also odd to have a robot limited to what it's programmed with to try and make limitless music.
Well that's the ultimate point of IA, making a robot that is capable of self-writing his behaviour pattern, to act in ways that the developers didn't originally predict.
That's essentially the main difference between human and computer, we can willfully act against our hard-wired instincts, a computer as it is right now will never act beyond the scope of their algorithms.

>>150773662
So Miyazaki is literally a sjw now.

>>150780472
>now

>>150774286
Well Miyazaki, if you'd tried to nurture young talent instead of using them to stroke your own ego and vision, you might not be in this situation.

Eat shit you Commie fuck

>>150774286
But he already hates everyone working in the anime industry, why would he care if they got replaced?

>>150777918
I think CG is fine in art if it's used in a creative way. I actually think Miyazaki's wrong here, It may not fit a ghibly film but it isn't without merit.

>>150774524
Eve no Jikan has an episode about machines making music iirc. It was pretty good. AI is what is going to replace us so it's okay for them to make art too.

>>150773662
Yeah, poor guy
Cant wait for him leeching $ that could be used to realize an actual fresh and original idea.

Instead we get another rehash from that senile fuck that so generic, lifeless and devoid of any appeal that nobody will watch it or ever discuss it outside of its initial release.
Seriously, Spirited away was the last movie of his i even remotely found any enjoyment in, and even then it dindt exactly blow me away. I was more impressed with the visual side of the movie rather than anything Miyazaki was involved with in it.
But hey, no matter what piece of shit he produces next it will every award in japan as people desperately will try to dig him out of obscurity and gain some critic cred.

>>150773662
>Miyazaki: I'm literally shaking right now

>>150773662
If you listen very closely.
And i mean like really listen.

You hear an old man afraid of dying and terrified of the world he found himself as he grew old.


If you are too stupid and technology illiterate to understand what can be the applications of self learning a computer algorithms then why the fuck should you even comment on it? And why should anybody find your opinion worthwhile? Just fuck off back to your coffin.
This is why i hate Japanese culture.
Juts look at those afraid beta males just sitting there and watching this old senile fuck criticize their work while he produces his childrens entertainment while the person in front of him brings the human race one step forward.
Call the old fart out on his crap, dont just take it, speak your mind. Fuuuuck. Its so aggravating to watch in what the state are modern men in.

And fuck your friend Miyazaki, stick your crappy sob story up your ass, nobody cares. What you gonna do, draw him a picture?
Smart men like those in front of you heal disease and might one day make him walk again. Show some respect.

Another video that makes me think even less of modern Japanese society, thanks op.

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>hello there look we made this thing called car it's for moving around
>I HAVE A HORSE I RIDE EVERY DAY, NOT EVERY DAY NOW, WHO IS LAME AND CAN'T NEIGH VERY WELL. FRANKLY SPEAKING LOOKING AT THIS CAR DISGUSTS ME AND IS AN INSULT. THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THIS ARE DISGUSTING AND HAVE NO CONCEPT OF WHAT HORSES FEEL

>>150781608
They can't call him out on his autism because muh respect for the big old artist. It does not matter that his "criticism" is solely based on his lack of knowledge. I really don't understand why AI developers would want to talk to a guy whose only skill is drawing. What the fuck would he know about AI development.

>>150777701
you're one of the reason half-assed CGI is acceptable these days

>>150778267

Because /a/ is literally looking for things to be mad over.

>>150778321

That's not the divide here, the divide is usually over some literally who cares bullshit

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>>150781619
This made me kek more than it should've.

>>150782141
Yeah, you always hear about the Japanese work culture and in what shit it is to work there, and what insane amount of pressure there is on you to "fit in".
But videos like this really drive in the point.
Every behind the scenes video on anime or game development i watch in online is depressing as all fucks, you see those miserable weasels desperately trying to gain some appreciation from the upper management.

So glad i run my own firm, i would probably murder someone if i worked there.

>>150781619
Oh man, spot on

>>150782141
>a guy whose only skill is drawing
And engineering, he actually does understand to some degree how planes are correctly built thanks to his father's work.

Miyazaki is basically the Japanese Hank Hill.
>hwat? a modern thing I don't understand? well that's just asinine I tell you what, get it away from me before I kick yer ass.

>>150774537
hue

>>150780959
I'm sure it's possible, but I literally cannot imagine a CG animated film ever being better than a hand-drawn one. Nothing I've ever seen in CG has given me that impression.

>>150780267
What's your problem?

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>>150773662
>this shit is so creepy
>fug dis
he's complained about legit crap but this? lol

>>150783677
>but I literally cannot imagine a CG animated film ever being better than a hand-drawn one.
It's about even for me, as I see both as equally bland for the most part.

>>150782141
>because muh respect for the big old artist.
Just like everything in Japan, they only pretend. Old people are not respected as fuck. Sure everyone has to be polite to you but everyone also secretly admits old people fucking suck and hates your guts. Old people are only superficially respected, which is why at the end of the day these developers are going to go back to making whatever they're making and bemoan that their stupid CEO made them show this to Miyazaki who wouldn't appreciate because he's a dumb old fuck they hate and hate having to pretend to respect

>>150783896
Why do you watch anime then? Out of curiosity. Or are you just saying the average animated film is bland looking regardless of the tools used to make it? Because then I'd agree, but who really cares about averages anyways?

>>150783039
>And engineering, he actually does understand to some degree how planes are correctly built thanks to his father's work.
He understands it about as well as I understand how a car is build due to me being in a garage once or twice.
Since i doubt he ever worked manually in his life yet alone was anywhere near his father when he worked on planes.
So no, engineering is not his skill, stop talking crap.

>>150781619
>Hi Miyazaki I invented an oven let me show you my cooking that resulted from it
>"I have a Caveman, I meet with him everyday, well not everyday now, whose brain is not yet evolved enough to process modern concepts such as electricity and cooks only with fire. Frankly speaking this oven disgusts me and is an insult, the people who make this are disgusting and have no concept of what Cavemen feel."

>>150784049
>Why do you watch anime then? Out of curiosity.
I'm watching it less and less recently, since I'm starting to see how limited it is not only in its animation quality, but also in things like storylines, presentation etc. Fuck, most anime stories out there might as well be live-action due to how small they take advantage of their medium other than that occasional scene.

And let's not get started about how hugely homogenized the general artstyle is, and how much of the same expressions and body language are used over and over. Say what you will about the "CalArts shit" persistent in western TV cartoons nowadays but even the shows using such a style have done more interesting variations on it in comparison.

>Or are you just saying the average animated film is bland looking regardless of the tools used to make it?
Yeah, pretty much. Regardless of whether it's 2D or 3D, chances are that most films will suffer from the same art style plague anime does as it's mostly just the same dime store Disney crap time after time.

>>150773662
>Being moving by using his head
>has no concept of pain

Miyasaki wasn't triggered because it's "unsensitive to his friend" or new, he was disgusted because it produces animation without any kind of personality or feeling. Doesn't matter if it's a zombie that has no thought process or preservation instinct: it has to transmit something to the audience beyond "that looks weird and gross". Even in present day most zombie movies show them struggling, falling and moaning, as it gives a sense of suffering. The logic behind that animation test is the same that made the zombie-waves in WWZ so ridiculous.

>>150776167
>Do you really not see how some things are automated and the person doing them doesn't matter
Quite the contrary, automation has facilitated the lives of many freeing up time they'd spend doing monotonous tasks giving them more control over their own lives making their life matter more.

>the human element can be removed from all creation
There is nothing stopping the human element from continuing to create its own artwork even if AI reaches a point where it is capable of delivering results of comparable quality.

>I'm a biomedical researcher
And I'm a mechatronic engineer, welcome to the future.

>>150784619
Consider rewatching favourites or watching a classic instead of what's airing, maybe? I find this mentality common among those who forget that anime has been big for many decades before the 90s. There's a ton of proper great animation from Japan, but most of it is very old. How much world animation do you watch? Every time I doubt animation I rewatch a Frederic Back film and I'm totally renewed.

>>150781608
>Muh Japanese old fart honurr.
Nips really need to do away with this. Especially with the shitty birthrate they're experiencing.

>>150785176
>How much world animation do you watch?
This may sound a little vague, but I pretty much what interests me the most visuals-wise, though even that can be rather few and far between.

I forgot to mention, that although I'm not really much of a huge animu fan nowadays, I still do have a thing for the music, especially the old stuff because of how well the genre-mixing was pulled off for the most part.

>>150774524
You think we don't have machines making music already? lol. All the top 40 is mostly computer generated and has been for a while. They just tweak the finished product and slap a pretty face onto it

>>150785819
>lol

What you're talking isn't AI generated, don't be stupid.

>>150776655
>>150776523
>>150776645
Feel free to say what about it looks bad

>>150786013
There's been talk about pop music being generated with computer algorithms but I don't know if it's true.
Either way, it's so simple that you don't really need an IA for it so it's kind of a waste.

>>150778111
>it often just comes across looking more awkward and uncanny valley than it should.
So basically nothing to do with the example being talked about then.

>>150786013
AI is already writing our news stories.

>miyazaki gets mad
>muh Japan

>>150774286
>Replacing inferior producers with superior ones
>bad

>>150773662
Why does /a/ worship this old cunt again?

>>150786026
The CGI

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>>150776472
>>150776645
>>150776409
>that slow motion overuse

>>150776472
This is shit.

>>150773662

>It looks like shit

He's right, very few 3D animation looks good

>>150774286
The literally made an AI drag a ragdoll across the ground.

>>150775361
>A sufficiently advanced AI could generate the stories and stories as well
not even close to my lifetime.

>>150773662
He's kinda an asshole

>>150775417
>It could be used to assist a human animator. Not replace them.
This. IA > AI

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>>150787041

Thank you for this helpful and informative post. Here's your (you).

>>150787041
That asshole is really /ourguy/

>all these people who know literally nothing about 3d animation and thinks it just springs out of the fucking ground

>>150789256
What?

>>150789472
Half the bitching is basically just people thinking that CG animators just press a button and animation happens.

>>150789604
I don't think that's true.

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>>150774813

>Overrated hack who only got popular because he abused his staff to give him higher animation quality whining

Miyazaki was always shit

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>>150781608
>>150782141
They just don't want to get fired from their slave wage job.

>>150775658
>All his movies have a tree hugging message
>Kills thousands of trees just to make his movies

He was talking about how those lazy guys let an AI make spook animation for the sake of random spooks and how they are stupid enough to think the random production of an AI is worth it. When he talked about his friend it was to explain how he actually has the opportunity to talk and relate to someone with a disability, so the experience filled him with knowledge and understanding about a human condition. Experience vs random production. That was his point.

>>150789682
Do you actually believe what you're saying is true?

>>150781608
Nice edge.

>while the person in front of him brings the human race one step forward.

Is that what they were trying to do? I honestly don't see the practicality behind what they showed. An AI that learns on its own how to move with the joints we give it — that's what they were showing, right? How does THAT become something that can draw pictures? They seem to actually want AI to replace artists, but they don't seem to realize that an AI won't possess any artistic vision until it is complex enough to be its own human being, which we are far off from achieving.

he is right. CG is fucking shit, it ruined cinema and it is going do ruin anime.

They should've programmed an AI that fucks Ponyo in the ass

>>150776271
>I'm a leech doctor, and the thought of a bunch of idiots on the internet pretending "Science and automation are the ultimate progress!" and that the human element can be removed from all creation make me sick to my stomach.
>I'm a leech doctor
>leech doctor
>doctor


I cannot stop laughing.

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>>150787041
Name an animator who isn't.

>>150790225
>which we are far off from achieving.
Yeah, and i bet we are gonna get much closer with that attitude. Everything is created in huge instantaneous jumps after all? Right?

Also calling out a retard on his behavior isnt edgy, its how normal society should function. Someone need to put that old egoistical fuck in his place, sadly in japan no man has balls.
If you believe anything in that video is normal, and how an work office climate should look then kid, you gonna have some hard time in your life.

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>>150777196

Wrong, weak people like you only exist to be made use off untill you are no longer of any use, there will always be a tribe of humans above all others. (jews)

You are like the Germans and the French which have donated their countries to peoples of color, just because they are rich on melanin.

Why do people hate 3DCG so much? It doesn't look quite as "natural" as pure 2D animation, but done right, it can make up for it's drawbacks by looking amazing. For example, a well done fight scene in 3DCG is always choreographically superior to a 2D scene. I've always enjoyed 3DCG, the lack of 2D art never seemed like a major problem to me. Regardless, it's fucking retarded how many idiots don't understand or appreciate technology. Fuck, I bet the people who hate 3DCG are exactly the same kind of people who said electronic music wasn't real music. It's not the tool, but the artist, that matters. If it doesn't have good qualities about it, it's not the tools, fault but the artists.

Also, it's naive to think AI is any different from any other living being. There's no reason an AI can't learn, and make itself better, just as humans did. At the end of the day, there's no fundamental difference between a mind that lives in a metal framework, and a mind that lives in a flesh and bone framework. AI is simply a sentient entity created artificially, by the logic of people ITT AI humans should never have been able to advance at all because it wasn't inherently ingrained in us. A true AI will have learning systems that allow it to take in new knowledge. For all we know, we've already created sentient AI that are just as aware as a human. Because all that was required for humans to be sentient was a certain type of programming that allowed us to expand on new information, in fact this is likely the basis of being conscious. If we've created something that can truly learn and better itself, than we have likely already created new beings.

>>150790702
>a retard
>Someone need to put that old egoistical fuck in his place
He is a 75 year old man, you fucking autist. Jesus christ. And you seem to think that he's "fearful" of the future — guess what, he won't be a part of the future either way. It's not fear anymore. He regrets that it is turning out that way. He thinks it will be lesser for it.

Now, maybe he is wrong on that part, more than likely is. But being wrong =/= being retarded here. His response is normal and understandable and there's definitely an aspect of truth to it. Every advancement in technology creates new values in the world but also loses some. An old man being concerned about the ones being lost is normal. What you should think more about doing is growing up so you don't get so angry over what an old man has to say about things.

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>>150790944

fuck off, CGI is fucking shit.

>>150790895
I exist for myself. Other people can try to use me, but unless they use overwhelming physical force, I will continue to live for myself. Selfish? Yes, because I do value my own will regarding my own life above the wills of others. And yes I'm aware that it's edgy, but edgy just means "going against the flow", which is fine with me.

>>150790335
>CG is fucking shit
And now he's using it for his newest feature film.

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>>150790944
Because in this business world it is easier to make 3dcg, 3dcg with pixar has already killed 2d in the west, 2d in the west is never coming back except in maybe kickstarters or something.

So if 3dcg ever takes of in Japan then 2d animation is dead F O R E V E R, with only 2d being nico nico and youtube projects.

Thankfully Japanese otaku are diehard anime lovers and really want to adhere to a higher art even if it means you get shit pay at a bad work place. And thankfully many studios are run by genuine people who actually like anime rather than thinking of it as just a source of money.

I want to respect the guy but he keeps acting like just a bitchy old fool. Get your shit together if you want to be taken seriously Miyazaki.

>>150790944
Way too many words

>>150791280
Are you argreeing it was a tragedy or saying western animation was always shit?

>>150791222
It's easier to make for people who don't care, but for those who want to make a quality work, it is a canvas infinitely bigger than 2D. More shitty stuff will be made, yes, but thew good stuff will be god-tier. Great 3DCG fight scenes can be way better than 2D fight scenes. That doesn't mean 2D doesn't still have a purpose, but the truth is someone who would only use 3DCG for the purpose of shitting out bad and cheap products wouldn't have been making god-tier anime if they had been using 2D instead.

The cheapness and scope of 3D only expands the art world, it doesn't limit it.

>>150791375
Name a CG animated film you consider god-tier, please.

>>150776219
No you idiot, switching all singing over to vocaloids would kill singing and music. Switching all instrumental music to computer generated instruments would also achieve that. How do you think your example is comparable at all?

>>150776271
>Are you the same idiots who think that printing is "just another tool" for writers to use
The art behind writing is how they generate the words and the story, not how the words physically get on the paper. How can you idiots keep failing at these analogies?

>>150776282
Cancer immunotherapy with a focus on nanoparticle based drug delivery systems. Go fuck yourself.

>>150785047
>automation has facilitated the lives of many freeing up time they'd spend doing monotonous tasks giving them more control over their own lives making their life matter more.
That doesn't even remotely apply to what I just said. If anything, you just agreed with me.

>There is nothing stopping the human element from continuing to create its own artwork
Be pragmatic for 2 seconds and think "If the people who run the business side of entertainment can mass produce garbage and still make money with less overhead, will they continue to fun real art?" The answer is no.

>And I'm a mechatronic engineer, welcome to the future.
Ah, so you lack creativity and any sort of passion for art, and in turn promote the destruction of it? It's funny because in a way you're like a robot yourself.

>>150790985
>He regrets that it is turning out that way.
Considering he is the part of this cancer work culture and spend decades helping to create it it would be pretty hypocritical to look at the mess he left with contempt dont you think?

>. His response is normal and understandable and there's definitely an aspect of truth to it.
Its a response of some self delusional twat who thinks hes the source of all knowledge or that hes entitled to being listened to while he waste peoples time with his worthless opinions on things he dosnt understand.
>Every advancement in technology creates new values in the world but also loses some.
The fuck does this even mean? Lost values, like what?

You can know a man by how he treats those who can do nothing to him, in this case random employees for a firm hes not even a boss of, i think this video perfectly shows what kind of person Miyazaki. And i think its time for him to fuck off into obscurity.

>>150776219
At what point does the human stop being in control of the tool?

>>150791375
>Great 3DCG fight scenes can be way better than 2D fight scenes
This is just completely wrong.

>>150791375
I don't know, the Japanese are hard to predict, but in America 2d is dead, even many cartoon tv networks moved into live action. Somehow in America it is nonviable to make any 2d animated films. If 3d takes hold in Japanese studios 2d might stop, however maybe not, I mean frozen and whatever crap pixar and disney puts out get huge box offices in Japan too, so maybe it is just otakus that are keeping it alive.

>>150776409
>>150776472
Why do people not like this? Because it doesn't look exactly like 2D? Fuck off, it's not supposed to be an exact imitation of 2D, it's a medium of it's own. You just need to get your heads out of your asses. It's smooth, fluid, and the characters are always on model. That cannot be said for most 2D anime now. You all hate it because it doesn't "feel" like 2D, and you're used to that. In your mind, a "good" animation is sup[posed to have all the visual cues as drawn animation. You have to adapt your mind to intake this new information. So it doesn't have the exact same gritty, paced feel as hand drawn anime from the 90s? So what, just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad.
>forgetting that people are close minded retards that hate everything that's different from what they're used to
Ah right, I forgot. I should stop wasting my time.

>>150791554
>>150791693
Everything from Majestic Prince was god-tier. I bet you haven't even seen it, filthy purist casuals.

>>150773662
He is absolutely right.

>>150791875
>CGshit mechs are good
>Muh studio Orange
Literally the dankest of all memes.

>>150791622
For you to be so buttblasted over this you must have received harsh criticism from an older peer of yours at one point in your life. That or you really are an autist. Either way, you should chill out, because this isn't that serious.

>The fuck does this even mean? Lost values, like what?

As in our values change as technology changes. Our expectations change. It's black and white right fucking there in the video. Miyazaki, a 75 year old man, shows disgust in the idea of an AI replacing humans to create art. Meanwhile, the younger generation around him does not see the issue he sees. His values are different from theirs; he appreciates different things. And that is because they are from drastically different generations.

Since you're defending those kids you probably don't give much of a shit about someone who spent years mastering their craft to create something. Does Hokusai's woodblock prints mean anything to you? Does it matter to you that they are printed on woodblocks, or are you just looking at the pictures themselves and getting quickly bored? That is the difference in values from one generation to another and how technology impacts our expectations, because it makes greater things possible, but it also changes our perspective on what to focus on (since it automates and simplifies things that were previously very difficult to achieve). We can manufacture something like a woodblock print easily now, but in the early 1800s, that would have been a really special and inspiring thing to see. And that's just one example.

>>150791875
And that's the end of that argument, I guess.

>>150791793
>Oh you like drawn animation?
>Ok well this is completely different, but you should still accept it as a replacement because I like it
Are you actually retarded?

>>150791916
>muh muh muh CGI is bad
>I'll reject everything you say because I can't ever accept anything besides muh glorious 2D
>muh muh studio memes
Fuck you.

>>150791976
I'm not saying you can't still like 2D animation, but hating 3DCG because it's different is retarded. It's not replacing anything, it's a new thing of it's own.

>>150791987
>The models are all on point because they can reuse them so it's good
>Spinning the camera and backgrounds a lot and lots of haphazard movement means that the choreography is good
Fuck off with your shit taste.

>>150792059
>It's not replacing anything
Yes it is, you fucking idiot. That's the entire problem with it. It's already completely taken over animation in the west, and has been creeping into anime in Japan as well. How can you say it's not replacing anything with a straight face?

I know you faggots will hate this just because it's CGI, but I'm going to post it anyway.
https://youtu.be/2hEjVKlU_o8

Miyazaki used to be my hero.

>>150791793
Because it looks BAD anon.
>muh fluidity
>muh model
Right, this shit is mass produced and sterile. Get 10 great traditional animators to draw the same scene and they'll all look different. Get 10 great CG animators to do the same scene and they'll all churn put the same thing. It's not a creative process anymore. Who are your favourite CG animators anon? Oh right, you don't have any because they're nameless gears in the animation machine, not artists.

>>150792079
>Spinning the camera and backgrounds a lot and lots of haphazard movement means that the choreography is good
Hey, that's how a lot of fights in 2D animus are done.

>>150792162
If you didn't live under a rock your image of your heroes wouldn't be so precise and fragile as to be easily shattered.

>>150792222
Haha no. Watch this
>>150792126
and pay attention to all the spinning camera, rapid zoom ins and zoom outs, and random slow downs for "impact". CGshit just tries to play off the fact that they're puppets with an easily manipulable camera in lieu of ever actually composing a good fight,

Is this thread worth reading?

>>150792285
>Haha no.
Show me a counterexample then.

>all the spinning camera, rapid zoom ins and zoom outs, and random slow downs for "impact".
Also present in a lot of fight scenes in 2D animus.

>>150774524
You humans will ever cease to amuse me

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>Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.
How can one nigga be so right?

>>150792214
I don't have any favorite 2D animators, or seiyuus, or writers either. If the scene looks good, who cares if 9 other people made it the same way?

Miyazaki is AN ARTIST.
I don't understand why everyone expect him to be a reasonable teacher or a gentle grandpa.

>>150792412
>muh ningen
Fuck off

>>150792404
Has AI gone too far?

>>150792421
If you don't actually care for animation then perhaps this isn't an argument you should participate in?

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>>150773662
The presentation was horrible and they deserve to get shit for it if they really want to emphasize this will one day replace humans. They didn't even have any sort of counter argument just in case it didn't go well. Miyazaki might be a bit bitter but his heart is in the right place unlike these morons.

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>>150792386
Pay attention to the cut where he's first sent through the trees. Then look at the one where he's sent flying after the last kick, and notice that he bounces off the ground to show a sense of weight and doesn't need to shake and spin the camera all around to try to achieve that effect, because the animator doing that scene had enough talent to get the point across otherwise. That kind of flair is utterly absent from CG.

>>150792436
This is 4chan. It's full of people who leave their homes once in a blue moon and have very small ideas as to how the world works. They have no clue exactly how harsh and overbearing the majority of artists in the world are, Miyazaki is a cupcake compared to most of them.

>>150792059
See I don't hate 3d, I mean toy story and the like are good. If 3d and 2d could live in harmony I would be okay with it. But as history has shown us in America once 3d hit better profit margins than 2d it completely engulfed 2d and 2d isn't coming back. If Japan adopts 3d widely it will REPLACE 2d and only comiket projects will touch it.

>>150792314
>Bashing Miyazaki
>Merits of 2d vs merits of 3d
>3d cannot live in harmony with 2d
>2d is old, 3d is upgrade
It's okay.

>>150792421
>I don't actually like animation
>So you should listen to what I say about the industry
Really activated my almonds.

>>150792126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4kEuNfbTWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQu3-dt_Fwk

Fuck off ningen

>>150773662
Literally my dad

>>150792214
>>150792285
Don't get me fucking wrong, my favorite fights are 2D, hand drawn, from the 80s and 90s mostly. But 3DCG doesn't look anywhere close to as bad as people make it out to be. Some 3DCG fights look amazing. Again, you're saying the 3DCG fights are "bad" because of elements that are different from 2D. What's wrong with slow downs for impact? Nothing.

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>Oh god Miyazaki-sama just blew me the fuck out what the hell do I say

I-is /3/ getting deleted?

>>150775361
>A sufficiently advanced AI could generate the stories and stories as well

The thought of being able to design an AI that could put everyone out of their jobs or even replace humans, is amazing. We would have created something that's better at what we do than ourselves. But as a person, that's scary.

The next logical step would be to then to find a way to convert ourselves into such an existence, and keep progressing.

The only 3D show I liked has been Bubuki Buranki of course it still looks stupid at times so its not perfect but enjoyable. Still prefer 2D tho.

>>150792477
>>150792569
I never said I didn't like ANIMATION, I've been animating things myself in my free time since I was a little kid. But I care more about the product and not the process. If it's good to me in the end, I don't care who made it. If it was made by an artist I like, great, but it wouldn't be any more or less good done by an artist I don't like or don't know.

Anyone who thinks art cant be automated is retarded straight up. There are many small patterns which people find appealing. Machines can be taught to utilize those patterns. Look at something like Infinite Stratos. It's so generic it's painful. All the character archetypes have been done a thousand times already. All the character designs are fairly generic (look at the hundreds of Houkis for example). The plot is extremely generic. Infinite Stratos could totally be made by machines in 10 years.

What does Miyazaki think of old school western animators like Chuck Jones and Tex Avery?

>>150780739
For the same reason he keeps coming out of retirement.

He ENJOYS his anger.

It DOES look like crap.

I think AI can help animators do the menial, repetitive work like drawing inbetween frames between two hand-drawn ones. Or you color one frame and it tries its best to follow your example for the next few frames. Kind of like waifu2x. But thinking that it can do the animation for you is retarded.

>>150792758
Right, you're just a consumer.

>>150792768
Sick dig at Infinite Stratos.

>>150792531
>dat shaky cam
>dat DBZ-tier laws of breaking physics just for the sake of cool
>dem flashy computer effects
>the fact that FUCKING GIANT ROBOTS are doing all this shit that's not even possible otherwise
Just like my shounen battle animus.

>>150791946
>For you to be so buttblasted over this you must have received harsh criticism from an older peer of yours at one point in your life
Sure i did. If it was deserved i would take it into my heart. But taking shit from some irrelevant senile twat? You joking? I would tell him to fuck right off.

>As in our values change as technology changes. Our expectations change. It's black and white right fucking there in the video. Miyazaki, a 75 year old man, shows disgust in the idea of an AI replacing humans to create art. Meanwhile, the younger generation around him does not see the issue he sees. His values are different from theirs; he appreciates different things. And that is because they are from drastically different generations.

Hes just a n asshole and technologically illiterate. Ignorance isnt something new or lost to use, its an universal human nature.
Hes not disgusted since its too bizarre for him, hes faked disgust is to cover for his own stupidity and inability to see any applications for what is show to him, yet alone to understand how its made.
>Since you're defending those kids you probably don't give much of a shit about someone who spent years mastering their craft to create something.
He could be the world greatest anime maker to be ever born and i still wouldnt take any advice form him about anything computer related.
>Does Hokusai's woodblock prints mean anything to you?
Dont know, dont care.

>We can manufacture something like a woodblock print easily now, but in the early 1800s, that would have been a really special and inspiring thing to see. And that's just one example.
Thats not an example of changing values of a society. Replacing one form of media with another, or one art form with another dosnt change the fact people still get impressed with ones creativity and mastery of a craft.
You sound younger by the post by the way, im starting to doubt you have any work space experience at all.

>>150792682
That whole exchange probably made him more motivated to impress Miyazaki

>>150773662
that animations looks like shit

the rig is badly done and the movement looks like a rubber puppet.

it would look great in a terrible horror Game like resident evil 5 or shit like that.
but im sure not even BERSERK would use a terrible model like that

>>150792768
>Infinite Stratos could totally be made by machines in 10 years.
Postmodernism can be generated by machines today already.

>>150792816
Yes I agree it could help but maybe just do the annoying shit but still have creative control of everything else. Giving full control of AI is just asking for trouble.

You're all spooked on a subconscious level. You watched 2D animation for so long, you became accustomed to it's flaws, and such the differences in execution and the new flaws in 3DCG are jarring for your minds.

>>150792744
We are never going to be able to do that. Humanity is flawed, humans are flawed, what we create is flawed and that is the beauty of humanity. It is never the same, it is different every single time because we are not perfect and we make up for that with interpretations and personality.

Computers are pinpoint exact calculations, they will never be able to create a new music genre or artstyle alone, because they must love their flawed product.

>>150792848
>It's not realistic so it's bad
Did you really just imply that?

>>150773662
lol machine learning will eventually trigger all of us, but first it starts with workers not already jobless because of automation

Ghibli is seeing 'art' be destroyed in front of him, first with 'moe' and now with 'machine'

>>150792531
It feels too linear, like the entire fight is happening on a one-dimensional plane.

>>150774688
I agree that programmers are not the best at creating 'human' images like this or what Miyazaki was saying. It takes a human to understand the effort of something like he was describing, not everything like a obligatory idle stance or breathing animation, but actions.

It's a lot like the difference between Japanese animation in games and Western studios in action games. Japanese animation tends to favor spectacle, inertia and speed while Western studios usually go for a very blunt animation. "Buff guy swings a sword!"

>>150792855
It probably made him realize hes too old and stupid to comprehend whats going on.
You can literally see his mind gears grinding trying to not call him an idiot, trying to not use words Miyazaki wont understand, and trying to not sound condescending while being ashamed for being insulted.
You are insane if you think they will ever meet again.
Entire thing is awkward as fuck to watch.