What exactly did Evangelion deconstruct or innovate?

Anime.

>>150738046
the entire anime industry

>>150738046
>>150738057
>>150738365
The "symbolism" were just there to look cool and don't actually mean anything, confirmed.

What Evangelion did was made normies feel special for watching an entry level "2deep4u" anime. These are the same people who think David Cage and Bioshock Infinite are great.

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>>150738046
Your mom.

>>150738543
only retards say Eva is deep, aka 99% of anime watchers.
the actual reason why it's good is the creative visuals and the most realistic characters from anime

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It popularized waifu faggotry and turned mecha anime into slice of life haremshit with beta MC.

>>150738046
needing likable characters to make a great anime

>>150738046
Super robot genre and child pilots.

>>150738543
>The "symbolism" were just there to look cool and don't actually mean anything, confirmed.
Stop repeating this like it means Eva doesn't have a message. The fact that the christian symbolism what bullshit to make Eva seem mysterious doesn't mean the rest didn't have a meaning.

>>150738648
Yes

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>>150738046
Now every fujoshit anime features a white haired foreign guy and black haired beta fag

>>150739217
are you referring to that white haired guy that was in it for two episodes and contributed nothing to the plot?

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>>150739255
Maybe nothing to the plot, but he sure contributed a lot to Shinji's dick

>>150738543
Yes, the Christian symbolism in a story about trying to become God doesn't mean anything at all, right?

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I love Eva but I'm tired of seeing normies who claim it's the best anime ever or a great masterpiece is impossible to understand

Compared to something like outlaw star, which basically rips their ending straight from EVA, I can see why people appreciate it.

Even being rushed, eva handeld the idea much better, and even had better pacing for the major story points.

>>150738046
It wasn't deconstruction, it was primarily subversion and inversion. It was standing back and taking a wider look at anime and incorporating more of the real world into it than most otaku who thought it catered to them could handle.

The mos important aspect is that the characters were realistic. It successfully created a juxtaposition between real life and a crazy sci-fi setting, all written by an otaku as a self-reflection on what wad wrong with anime and its fans at the time.

>>150738600
>the most realistic characters from anime
t's exactly what depth is, you fucking breast-feeder.

>>150739395
>a great masterpiece is impossible to understand
I agree it's a masterpiece, but anyone who claims it's impossible to understand is cleatly parroting things to sound smart. Maybe hard to understand, but notimpossoble.

Mass merchandise

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>>150739255

>and contributed nothing to the plot

i hate kaworu as much as the next guy, but he was literally nothing more than fodder to further the plot, which is the opposite of what you're saying. what i don't understand is this massive projection of him being a good/likeable character. he wasn't even a character like all the others in Eva were, he was simply a plot device to fuel Shinji's descent.

>>150739501
>It was standing back and taking a wider look at anime and incorporating more of the real world into it
That's exactly what a deconstruction is. I see people have complained enough abput how deconstruction is misused that we've doubled over to people thinking nothing is REALLY one.

>>150739771
He had more of a lasting impression than the bridge staff and Shinji's friends, who all showed up at least once every episode.
That in it self proves he's a good character.
Especially considering how many characters he's influenced in other Anime.

You're just mad at his presence because it makes you uncomfortable. You want Eva to be an escapism Anime, and it includes parts you don't like. So you run away through by hating him for no legitimate reason.

>>150739748
I've seen people saying they had to read a lot about the simbolism and religious references and think Evangelion is too complex and hard because of that. As if those references were extremely deep when it's actually basic

>>150739395
It's really not impossible to understand at all, although the show and movie leaves a lot unanswered and doesn't overtly explain any of the back story to the viewer. As for it being the best anime ever, I can only say it's the best I've seen thus far. What do you consider the best?

>>150739771
He's Seele's pawn and everything he says in the show is bullshit. They told him that Adam was in Terminal Dogma and to act nice towards Shinji so they could simultaneously finish off the angels and break Shinji so he wouldn't stop Third Impact. Kaworu was under the impression that Seele just wanted the Lilin exterminated for some fucked up reason and was glad to oblige.

His popularity is ironic because his official character is nothing more than a facade. A ton of spinoff material expand on him being the super nice guy he's made out to be because fans were mistaken and ended up loving him.

In the original draft of the series, things were actually going to be drawn out longer and Kaworu would have transferred into Shinji's school at some point before the city was destroyed. It'd be interesting to see what would have happened if they had went with that direction instead.

>>150739992
Well yeah, the religious symbolism is really overt and you'd have to be retarded to not understand those kinds of allusions in a show about a character ascending to literal god tier and turning humanity into tang.

>>150739992
I wouldn't call those shallow or even common knowledge, but they're 1:1 analogies at best. I don't get how people can see an old allusion and think "that's deep" but a modern one and just laugh because "I get that reference!!". They're the same thing.

I actually know why, but it's just cultural perception, I guess. Same reason people hate English class.

>>150740099
I did read about it but I didn't find it super complex like some faggots say. They overlook it too much

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>>150740028
Anno designed him to be a good character from the start.

SEELE never ordered him to do anything with Shinji, that's just your own fanwank.
He approached Shinji on his own.

He wanted to see the human boy who single-handedly killed all of his angels for himself, and he ended up growing fond of him and realizing he, and the rest of humans deserved to live.

All in the span of one episode, we got a motivation, plight, personality, and backstory out of Kaworu.
That's more than the other side characters in Eva got with more screentime.

He was also the first character of his kind in Anime, the mysterious alien enemy who grows sympathetic towards the human MC. And he inspired an entire character archetype based on that.

If a character arises an emotion out of you and makes themselves stick out to the audience and be remembered, then they have achieved their purpose.
And Kaworu as a character went well and beyond that for the screentime he got.

>>150739992
The religious symbolism is just a red herring to distract viewers from the actual plot. >>150739347 is right in saying it's not completely meaningless, but it's mostly just to create coherent naming schemes that sound cool since most people even outside of Japan aren't familiar with more esoteric concepts of Judaism.

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>>150739914

>He had more of a lasting impression than the bridge staff and Shinji's friends
for no other reason than "because plot". the second we see him Shinji is enamored with him with no development to their relationship at all. there is no organic evolution of it, just shoved in and made for us to accept it. i don't think this is an inherently bad thing due to the limited amount of episodes they had to convey the story, but it's one of the bigger flaws in Eva, especially with how well-developed the other characters are. the bridge crew are supposed to be merely side characters for the show. Kaworu isn't, and is made to seem like a huge deal to Shinji, nearly on-par with the likes of Asuka and Rei with respect to his character development, only it's hardly developed at all.

>Especially considering how many characters he's influenced in other Anime.
people copying tropes "because Eva did it" is possibly the biggest cancer in the industry that completely misses the point of the characters in the first place. how you can defend this as a positive trait is beyond me.

>You're just mad at his presence because it makes you uncomfortable.
I am a literal 100% actual homosexual and Kaworu didn't make me uncomfortable at all. i have no issue with Shinji being a bisexual (although i doubt that interpretation as well). what i have issue with is the lack of buildup to its expression in the show. the relationship works within the constraints of the show to move the plot, but this does not make Kaworu a quality character like so many people seem to think he is.

>You want Eva to be an escapism Anime, and it includes parts you don't like. So you run away through by hating him for no legitimate reason.
you handwaving my reasoning as "no legitimate reason" doesn't make it true. explain why it sucks with substantive arguments and not with pointless psychological projection that you have no way of obtaining outside of pulling it from your ass.

>>150740009
TTGL

Evafags must be really faggots, everytime there's an eva thread they end up talking about kawoshin even if that's not the subject

>>150740127
but people hate english class because its a shitty bastard language that has no right to be as influential as it is

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>>150740182

the religious symbolism isn't deep, and is pretty easy to understand. but there's plenty of symbolism in the show that is deeper and more esoteric.

>>150740487
that and there really isn't any religious symbolism in the first place. It's all imagery or analogies or allusions. The train is symbolism, and you know it's symbolism because it's a recurring motif. If only people would learn the difference between imagery and symbolism then perhaps we could have more constructive conversations about it.

>>150740345
literally the first person to mention kawoshin

>>150740561
Imagery can be symbolism anon

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>>150740264
>for no other reason than "because plot"
No nigger, he had more of a lasting impression on you than the bridge staff and Shinji's friends because he has more of an interesting and engaging character than them.

We're here writing full on paragraph posts on his motivations and his role in the series. Could we do the same for Maya or Kensuke? No, we really couldn't. We can't find much to talk about in regards to these characters despite them getting hours of screentime vs. Kaworu's 10 minutes.

>enamored with him with no development to their relationship at all
That's called love at first sight. It's instantaneous with no need for development.
And Anno is a massive lover of Shoujo, which is what the whole Kaworu-Shinji thing was supposed to be:
Anno's love letter to Shoujo cliche tropes where the smug mysterious prince woos the shy loser girl. It's not really supposed to be realistic, because it's a fucking Anime.
Sure, there are many parts of Eva that are realistic, but many others that are dramatized and not. That doesn't make them bad.

>a huge deal to Shinji
You don't have to be a major character to affect a major character. Just look at Yui, she's still a side character that we know nothing about. But she influences major characters like Gendo and Shinji.

>Shinji being a bisexual (although i doubt that interpretation as well)
It's not an interpretation, Anno confirmed it.

>is the lack of buildup to its expression in the show
Because it's supposed to be fast, shoujo-esque, and romanticized. Kaworu was literally made to be a Shoujo prince. Because episode 24 is a huge fucking deconstruction of these tropes.

If a character can emotionally affect you and make you thing and discuss about them, then they have achieved their purpose. This is what makes Kaworu a quality character.
No one is saying he has more depth or is better than a major character in the series.
But as a side character? With 10 minutes of screentime no less? He gets passing marks.

>>150740421
"English" as in "literature class". Also, the people who hate it are the reason the language sucks.

>>150740345
They're all repressed homosexuals, they can't help but talk about kawoshin because it secretly makes them hot and bothered and they hate it.

>>150740605
yeah and a splash of paint on a canvas can be art. The definition of imagery is really loose but in a strict sense it's a different thing from symbolism.

>>150740655
>Shinji
>Not best girl
Also, Kawoshin is classic fujoshi. Men don't care.

>>150740616
I sincerely doubt that Maya has more than 10 minutes of screentime desu

>>150740616
We already got that you're gay af anon.

>>150740725
She got at least 3 minutes in every two episodes.

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>>150740752
I'm not gay, I have a waifu.
I just like Kaworu and find him an interesting character.
I think it's a shame when people don't realize he's the only character in Anime history to have only 10 minutes of screentime but to be so influential and memorable to the fans and the industry.

Liking Kaworu doesn't make me gay.

>>150740824
Yes you are. >>150740655 is right. You should stop repressing it bro

>>150740724
Ever since 3.0 released, a bunch of waifufags have been getting pissy about Kaworu because he made their beloved franchise gay.
As if it wasn't gay since 1996.

>>150740708
What I'm saying is imagery can be symbolic, and very often in film symbolism is conveyed through imagery.

>>150740867
I'm not fucking gay, I like vagina.

>>150740885
Don't I know it. Eva threads usually aren't terrible, though.

>>150740923
Don't feed the troll.

>>150740923
Sounds like you've got a case of the not-gays. Get well soon

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>>150740885
These retards don't realize the reason why Eva is so popular is because of omnipandering.
That's why half of Japan's Eva fanbase is fucking women. Because they pander to both otaku and fujoshits at the same time.
Shinji can fall flat onto Misato's boobs in one episode and then get on all fours to suck Kaworu's dick in the next. That's how this shit works, and that's how Anno intended it to work to make money.

Fucking retards, all of you.

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>>150740616
>he had more of a lasting impression on you than the bridge staff and Shinji's friends because he has more of an interesting and engaging character than them
confirmed for not even getting half of characters right
>muh Kaworu husbando
Kaworu a shit, the most one-dimensional character, he's just some local Jesus
>m-muh empathy for humans
He didn't unite with Adam only because it turned out to be Lilith

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>>150741218
(you)

>>150741270
>not even trying to argue
come on, I'm bored, is that all you managed to pull out of your pale ass?

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>>150741322
Let's see how bored you get with my dick fucking your mouth, slut.

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>>150740923

>>150740655
I can see how people who are conflicted could get even more turned on. I can't for the life of me repress my tsundere fetish, and the more I try to hide it the more obvious it becomes to everyone but me. Am I a baka?

150741394
>getting this buttblasted
not even worth a (You)
:^)

>>150741134
Fujoshi ARE otaku.

>>150738543
> What is Crucifixion? I can't see anything like that there.

You're even less mentally courageous than Tumblr.

>>150741430
Do you hit yourself too?

>>150741430
>I can see how people who are conflicted could get even more turned on.
A-anon, stop that!

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>>150741440
Let's see how buttblasted you get with my dick pounding your prostrate, slut.

Ultraman? Didn't Anno say as much even?

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>>150739395

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>>150741532
No, he was just inspired by Ultraman.
And Devilman.
And Ideon.

Evangelion didn't deconstruct jack shit, it just took a bunch of crap Anno liked as a teenager and mixed it all together.

>>150741581
what are yellow dots for?

>>150741661
some shitty self-insert, couldn't find original picture.

>>150741661
A confession that someone saves shit from the internet instead of working to find the original files.

>>150741581
This list is so confusing. Halfway through it crosses over into headcanons, and there random obvious things (MAGI = Naoko) and opinions (Ramiel = Best Girl) throughout with no correlation.
As expected of the master.

>>150741581
>Shinji is Anno's self insert on d33p3st level
Literally what, it's the most obvious thing

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>>150741531
Your favorite character is one-dimensional waifubait and you're a huge homo

>>150742027
Asuka isn't my favorite character though
I prefer my women to actually look like women, thanks.

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>>150740264
>I am a literal 100% actual homosexual
So when does Mike Pence send you to the electric chair?

>>150742092
I'm not talking about Asuka, I'm talking about your favorite characters. あんたバカァ?

I rated this a 2 on my anime list.

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>>150742179
一次元って見ると、アスカのことしか浮かべられないけど。
そして僕はホモじゃないから、アスカが嫌いだというのは当たり前のことだろう？
ブスオカマに興味がなーい～

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>>150742382
>そして僕はホモじゃないから、アスカが嫌いだというのは当たり前のことだろう？
どういう意味ですか？

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>>150742630
はっ？はっきり言ったはずなんですけど。

>>150740824
>fujoshi pretending to be a man

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>>150742714
>women
>on /a/
I hope not.

Is a straight guy liking Kaworu really so shocking to you? He's cool and chill as fuck. And he can play a mean piano solo.

>>150742155

when Mike "zaps for traps" Pence finally ascends to president after the orange puppet gets his dumb ass impeached.

until then, i'm gonna enjoy my AIDS in peace, thank you very much.

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>>150742906
>Asukafag voted for Hillary
Why am I not surprised.
Faggots are just as stupid as women.

>>150742762
>/a/ doesn't have women
Then /a/ has way more homos than I thought

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>>150742762
How new?
/a/ is filled with women

>>150742961
>>150742963
Besides sweaty men who identify as little girls, there should be no women here.

>>150742950
>Faggots are stupid
>Posts a gay pic
Sure

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>>150742950

>Asukafag voted for Hillary

but i'm neither of those things

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>>150743021
Nothing I posted was gay, you're just a faggot projecting your homosexual desires on me.

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>>150742996
Then all the yoi threads are full of faggots?

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>>150743080
No, they're filled with straight men. Like me.

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>>150743073
Sure I'm gay but so are you

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I'm gay, but also straight

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>>150743136
I don't care how big your cock is, I'm straight and I like vagina.
You can't trick me with your silly homo games.

>>150743136
who is that girl and why is she smiling?

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Anyway I have to go to bed since it's like 8 am here.
You can all stop pretending you don't want to ride my 12 inch cock now. Silly homos.

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>>150738046
You're waifu

>>150740616
>Shinji is bisexual
Good joke

>>150738648
>child pilots
You mean like Gundam?

>>150738046
It deconstructed humanity into its elementary substance.