Will fate ever be this good again?

>>150614747
But Zero's ending sucked because it's tied to the fate series

Also Kiritsugu and Saber have autism

>>150614803
>Zero's ending sucked because it's tied to the fate series
kek

>autism
hurr

>>150614747
No. The series clearly peaked with the original. Just enjoy the "trilogy"

>>150614910
Probably not.

>>150614803

Saber somehow didn't come across as bland and lacking in personality as Kiritsugu. Kiritsugu is almost like a completely different character when you see him in flashback in the UBW anime too. Anyway the whole Fate series is overrated as all shit, but to answer your question no it's just fanservice schlock for making fast money now and could stand to be talked about way less in the coming years.

>>150615413
>Saber somehow didn't come across as bland and lacking in personality as Kiritsugu.
Completely subjective imo

>Kiritsugu is almost like a completely different character when you see him in flashback in the UBW anime too.
Saber is also very different from her general characterization in Fate route. Suit Saber vs Waifubait Saber

VN is better

>>150615776
>people will still fall for this meme

>>150614747
Why have you not read the VN, yet?
I did it while thing in 2 months in my free time.
Or do you want to just live in the dark like some edgy teenager?
Actually, are you just an edgy teenager?!

>>150615914
>Why have you not read the VN, yet?
I did. It took me two years to get through it because it was so boring.

>>150616016
Expain

original VN was fanservice pandering
Zero was also fanservice pandering just to a different audience
there were decent parts of this series but most were done better in Kara no Kiyoukai 5

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>>150615413
How was Kiritsugu bland? I agree about Fate as a whole being overrated but Kiritsugu was one of the few unique things the entire series had (yes, I read the FSN VN and FZ novel). I don't think being stoic means he was lacking in personality at all.

Unlike most protags, Kiritsugu prefers to lurk in the shadows with his guns and send out his minions to fight for him. He uses his plot armor at the right time and strategically, instead of bland shonen character charging in recklessly. He's also really cute as shown as early as episode 2 when he's not in Grail War-mode.

Kiritsugu also breaks the number one rule of anime protag, which is always be courageous and never give up. When he wanted to run away from the whole thing to be with Ilya and Iri and his wife had to tell him to stop. Kiritsugu was stoic, but I don't think it made him bland at all. In fact he was a very unusual main character for an anime.
Don't you ever talk shit about Kerry

>>150614747
UBW surpassed Zero in every way possible. Kiritsugu was a wannabe Light Yagami with abs, Kirei was boring, El Malloi and Waver were annoying enough for me to wish they were never characterised. The only F/SN character who is flawed to that level is Shinji.

>>150616216
his unusual for a main character but for a villain? he's pretty generic

>>150616147
>Kara no Kiyoukai 5
Ah, Zero was better. More interesting characters, premise. Looked better

>>150616054
Shirou's struggle and therefore his development is uninteresting. Feels sappy and melodramatic; I found it hard to take seriously or care about. The battles are little more than average shounenshit. The writing style itself is also very bad. The ero scenes are often ugly to read. Just off the top of my head

>>150616216
>When he wanted to run away from the whole thing to be with Ilya and Iri and his wife had to tell him to stop.

This was a great scene that was rush into and out of in a major way to make room for caster related, tensionless action scenes apparently. It was ashame.

>>150616147
Kara no Kyoukai is even more overrated and shitty than Fate. I don't know why you hipsters keep reading into shit that isn't there. Nice visuals and music but that's it. Nasu was always shit. So is Urobuchi, but at least he tries to make his stories interesting.

Ironically Gil was way better in Zero than he was in Fate. Zero's Rider was way better (deviantart recolor of Saber fighting her didn't redeem her to me). The grail war was much more grand and strategic in Zero in comparison to Stay Night where most of the masters and servants happen to be in the same location. Also cringe worthy high school setting and romance which Zero didn't have.

But yeah none of these are really anything special. Sakura's struggle with worms was kinda interesting but lead to nothing special. And Gilgamesh's arrogance in Zero was fun but that's about it.

>>150614747
Yes it's called CCC too bad no translation anytime soon so I won't be able to play it yet.

>>150614803
>>150615491
Go back to youtube Gigguk

>>150616345
Gil's issue in fate is that his character changes depending on the route to fit the antagonist role. In Zero he's much more clearly defined as a character instead of a plot device.

>>150616345
>Ironically Gil was way better in Zero than he was in Fate

Uro made Nasu's stale crap interesting and dynamic

Nothing in FSN compares to Gil vs Rider, and that was 100 urobuchi. The difference in the actual quality of writing became screamingly apparent when the exact same studio did UBW, and tried as hard as possible to keep it a word-for-word rendition.

>>150616344
That was just pottery to when Saber and Shirou contemplated the same thing. That ultimately brings up the point that Kerry is largely a facet of Shirou's character.

>>150616418
I actually found him really boring and one-dimensional in the VN, and I read FSN before I watched Fate Zero. Now I could be forgetting things because I read it a long time ago, but Gilgamesh really didn't do anything interesting or entertaining in the VN except get eaten by Sakura.

Even though he has a smaller role in Zero, I found him much more amusing and likable there.

>>150616468
I wish Nasu would just write for cutesy shit like Carnival Phantasm and leave the Grail War-ish aspects to Urobuchi.

>>150616487
>That was just pottery to when Saber and Shirou contemplated the same thing.

What? There was no such scene in Fate route.

>>150616468
>>150616588
funfact
Urobochi never wrote Waver surviving
that whole ending was an executive decision

which just goes to show you why these threads are always based on garbage by people who don't know crap

>>150616522
Well he's closer to his zero personality in the Fate route than the others. He doesn't appear much in HF and in UBW he's like a cartoonishly cheesy villain

>>150616522
>Even though he has a smaller role in Zero, I found him much more amusing and likable there.

The term that applies to Gil in FSN is "mustache twirler." You're not misremembering anything; he was just a completely superficial "big bad" for Shirou to beat.

He had one and only one interesting moment in the whole VN. And that was when, on a whim, he put the grail into Shinji as a punishment for his pettiness. And because blah blah blah >reasons that nasu made up on the spot to keep the plot moving etc etc

>>150616617
>Urobochi never wrote Waver surviving
>that whole ending was an executive decision

Source or it didn't happen faggot

>>150616301
the premise was taken verbatim as was most of the cast
the only thing that sets Zero apart as far as I can tell is guns and explosions

>The writing style itself is also very bad.
out of curiosity how many translated light novels have you read ?

>>150616751
Zero Data book Wavers entry
Urobochi:"lol I was surprised when the editors told me Waver survived"

>>150616787
>>150616735
meant

>>150616216
Kiritsugu is never justified in the way Shirou is.
He's just a maximum faggotron because he is literally too autistic to behave otherwise.
Jokes aside Shirou isn't autistic, Shirou is literally damaged down to his soul. Trauma doesn't look like autism. Kiritsugu, though? Kiritsugu killed his own dad because ~SAVE EVERYONE~ overrides everything for him with no merit at all.
He wounds himself relentlessly over his entire life without any satisfying reason as to why he's such a failure of a human being.

>>150616617
Even if Waver didn't survive, I don't think that changes the fact that Urobuchi did a good job with the grail war (For the most part) and made it much more interesting than Nasu's

Seriously re-read all 3 fate routes. Shit is bland as fuck, even more than Zero which is an accomplishment

>>150616588
Shirou thinks about giving the finger to the whole thing and just run off with Saber in the last day or two.

>>150616468
>Nothing in FSN compares to Gil vs Rider

That was lots of flash and little substance. The stuff between rider and waver right before is very good, but the battle is a wash. Gil considered him worthy of an honorable death. Iskander yells pseudo-philo stuff then promptly loses. Everyone brings up Ea's chant, but there's little depth or thematic current to carry it. It just sounds cool. The whole encounter was wrapping up the plot, and it did that satisfactorally. It was not this grand conclusion.

>>150616869
>All the people around him become zombies
>forced to kill the girl he loves
>father was behind all of it
>not traumatic
Anon do you know what trauma is?

>>150614747
When SHAFT does their adaptation next year it's going to be gangbusters.

>>150616976
Fateomonogatari.

>>150616701
He has several scenes that are more important than that like his conversations with Kirei, going after Sakura to protect the town and his final dialogue with Saber about things being beautiful because they are unobtainable
saying nothing about HA

not that it matters since nobody really cares about what happens in the series instead of arguing headcanons and who wrote what

>>150616869
>Shirou is literally damaged down to his soul.

This is exactly why Shirou is a worse character. His motivations are purely transparent and cringe-inducing melodrama, which are, for lack of relatability, enforced through incessant and literally redundant dream sequencdes

>>150616954
He didn't kill Shirley though. He ran away. Also, his dad outright says Shirley did it herself and that it was a tragic mistake, not that he was "behind it".

>>150617035
To be honest I dropped HF halfway through, and haven't touched the franchise since. Sakura is boring

>>150616893
yes because somehow having 90% of all the plot twists revealed ahead of time somehow lessens the experience

who would have imagined

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>>150614747
No. It's ironic. They could do anything they want now because they have mad dosh, but current Type-Moon stuff panders more heavily to otaku than it did back when they just needed to include sex scenes in order to sell VNs. Nasu hasn't written anything in ages, and likely never will again; he's done as a creator. His latest VN used something he wrote 20 years ago, and even the Fate Zero light novel, which one upped Fate Stay Night by executing its general concept in the best possible way, is super fucking old. The HF movie I'm solely hyped for is based on a 13 year old story, reminding me that Type-Moon is essentially living off of fumes and milking stuff that was made more than a decade ago,without interjecting any new or interesting settings or ideas.

>>150616280
How many villains have stopped a zombie apocalypse and practice utilitarianism, sacrificing their own wants and desires in the process?

>>150617092
>Type-Moon is essentially living off of fumes and milking stuff that was made more than a decade ago,without interjecting any new or interesting settings or ideas.

shit

>>150617038
Your assertion is hollow. Shirou's motivations aren't transparent, it has to be beaten clearly in the UBW route. Shirou doesn't have any innate desire to save anyone. He just does it because he thinks it's a nice goal to aspire to, and as a machine all but devoid of personal desires due to critical soul damage, it's something to (futilely) work towards.
The only thing that makes him happy is seeing the people around him be happy.

>>150617092
>Nasu hasn't written anything in ages
Didn't he write CCC? That was only 3 years ago

>>150617092
You're not wrong but Nasu wrote CCC and a lot of Extella and GO.

>>150617092
That Nero design in that pic does suck. Her classier designs look way better then that and I don't understand why they gave an ok for that design even I know it's for fan-service. They still could had design a better design then that if they wanted to show some skin of Nero. I think Type-Moon got drunk off that Fate/GO money and think putting design they feel like in is acceptable.

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Compare this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7OYPb3fTP0

to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zdsD92CMes

Not only is a magic dogfight cooler than just "spam swords, big guy swings his sword in retaliation". The story of Ilya and Berserker in that route weren't even anything good, just the typical "giant becomes unlikely friends with little person" shit. F/Z got that right with Waver and Rider. How the history books got Rider's size wrong but he's happy anyways, how he keeps comparing the size of him and waver to the rest of the world, so in the grand scheme of things, they're both tiny. Instead of just "awww look big guy protects kid". Waver and Rider are constantly playing off each other. While Ilya was just dragging Berserker along and their stories in that route were really dull.


I know these comparisons aren't the best, because of how different the contexts are, but my point is F/Z did things so much more better than Stay Night.

>>150617092
stopping a zombie apocalypse in particular isn't all that common but both "utilitarianism leads to callous evil" and "the villain was once a good guy or is taking fighting for a righteous cause too far" are pretty god damn standard as far as I can tell

Still I'm not trying to bash Kiritsugu. Making him the protagonist is a decently original move just not wildly so.

>>150617343
Berserker is Hercules who in myth was driven mad and killed his children and spent the rest of his life doing the 12 labours to make up for it

him overcoming the his madness to protect a child is meant to be a continuation of the themes in his legend

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>>150616869
>Kiritsugu is never justified

How? You're not really explaining anything, just making claims and spiting one character to defend another character.

>Shirou is damaged to his soul

So is Kiritsugu. And Kiritsugu actually has a better reason to be damaged than Shirou.

>save everyone overrides everything for him

Yes, makes sense considering that was his biggest flaw in the past. He learned from his mistakes. Yes, Kiritsugu is "austistic" but not for the reasons you're saying. He's autistic because of he's stubborn and didn't use Saber to the full extent during the war.

>he wounds himself without any reason

He does have better reasons. His decision literally saved lives in the past, yes he was ultimately a failure but that was kinda the point. Kiritsugu had a childish dream that only the grail can achieve and he realized the grail was unable to give him that. He was a failure, but also a more interesting character than Shirou. Whose struggle was just "am I wrong for wanting to be good?"

>>150617456
Wasn't comparing Lancelot's and Hercules' backstories. I was making a point on how Urobushit was able to put the servants in more interesting situations than Nasu.

>>150615833
What meme? The VN is the only part of this franchise worth reading

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>>150614747
Fate peaked with the original, but it all went really downhill after Zero. At this point it's just sad.

>>150617619
I hope you're not talking about FSN VN. That is garbage. Only interesting thing to happen is Sakura's struggle with worms and Gate of Babylon was pretty cool. Everything else was trash.

>>150617518
>So is Kiritsugu. And Kiritsugu actually has a better reason to be damaged than Shirou.

Literally damaged in his soul as in Shirou is like the thin souled Homunculi Leysritt

he was reanimated from death and only has parts of his human instincts left

>>150617729
Are you talking about the one HF ending where he got a new body somehow?

Because I was talking about Shirou as in the kid shirou from the VN. The one that gets his ass beat by a legendary hero and comes to school the next day like nothing happened.

>>150617583
Neither was he. And Rider is the only interesting servant with development and put in varied scenarios to see how he ticks. All the others have little to no chemistry with their masters and aren't much more than plot filler (as in, we need to have 7 servants in this story)

>>150617092
>>150617193
Nasu is the scenario director of F/GO and personally wrote the story from America onwards you clods. Pretty sure he's the lead writer of Extella too, with Sakurai helping.

>>150617583
Well you made it badly then.
Nothing that happens in Zero is really as interesting as it could be given that most of the cast exists to be killed by the protagonists and nothing else.

I mean you're claiming JETS is the thing that makes zero cool and that's already conceding the argument IMO.

>>150617897
This thread is literally one zerofag starting arguments over why zero>stay night.

>>150617837
>All the others have little to no chemistry with their masters and aren't much more than plot filler

They should have done more Saber-Lancelot backstory, instead of 5 episodes of edgy team caster filler

>>150617518
>How? You're not really explaining anything, just making claims and spiting one character to defend another character.
There is no reason given to his inhuman behavior. He denies his own desires (which, unlike Shirou, he very much does have. He is a human pretending to be a machine where Shirou is a machine pretending to be human) for what end? Why? Where do the impulses that drive him forth come from?
>So is Kiritsugu. And Kiritsugu actually has a better reason to be damaged than Shirou.
What in the fuck? Kiritsugu did not suffer braindeath from cursed hellfire that literally burned his ego to nothingness. You are simply, flatly fucking wrong here.
>He does have better reasons. His decision literally saved lives in the past, yes he was ultimately a failure but that was kinda the point. Kiritsugu had a childish dream that only the grail can achieve and he realized the grail was unable to give him that. He was a failure, but also a more interesting character than Shirou. Whose struggle was just "am I wrong for wanting to be good?"
Fucking bullshit. Shirou's struggle was "is it acceptable to adopt desires that one personally receives no positive feedback from", and the answer is a resounding "if you're fine with that".
Kiritsugu, however? He didn't adopt it from anybody, nor does he think the ideal is a beautiful thing. He just does it because, for no justifiable reason at all, he believes he has to and cannot function any other way. He is a cripple of a human and it isn't shown why.

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>>150614747
>No sword autist
>No Mapo Tofu
>No Tohsaka anus

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>>150614747
Nope, best instalment of the fate franchise, no other arc came close.

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>>150617837
>Rider is the only servant with development

Not really. Saber straight up said she shouldn't have been king at the end of F/Z, that's the complete opposite of what she was in the beginning. Compare that to her bland Stay Night counterpart where she's just another main heroine hentai character. And she was actually doing things like discussing philosophy with the other kings, having an honorable duel, transforming motorcycle, etc. I can go on and on about how Zero just made things more compelling. Lancer, the most noble and polite servant ends up cursing everyone and having the most hatred. Gilgamesh ends up complimenting a kid despite acting like the most obnoxious fag throughout the story. To be fair, there are servants like Caster who didn't really change much, but had a more amusing relationship with his master.

>little to no chemistry with their masters

I thought that was actually good. One group had a love triangle, one group were manchildren that loved murder, one group were a bunch of pretentious backstabbers, one group was two heroes with clashing ideologies therefore couldn't work together, one group was just selflessness but also didn't talk much, of course Waver and Rider were great. The different dynamics actually was a plus for me.

Looking back at Stay Night I actually prefer Zero's master-servant relationships a lot more.

>>150616617
So like most 4chan threads that target franchises and fans that are easy to bait

>>150617583
Lancelot was one of the worst of the bunch. His motivation was "WAAH KING WON'T PUNISH ME SO I GO CRAZY'

>>150617827
yes that one
the reason he falls for Saber is compulsion, he becomes obsessed with her on their first encounter because Avalon is fucking with his head (same deal as KnK5 on that one as well)

he doesn't have the "ego" part of the Jungian consciousness dealy-oh and he sort of monkey-see-monkey-do imitates normal human behavior from observing Kiritsugu and trying to do the things that would make Kiritsugu happy

once Kiritsugu dies he does something like a computer freezing for a time until he adjusts to the idea of copying the guys ideals, the difference being he doesn't have any of Kiritsugu's normal hangups- he really can just kill people like a machine because he doesn't really care about himself or how much his demeaning himself

of course a part of him still remembers what it was like to be human and realises there is something wrong with him now, Heaven's Feel is him realizing that he still loves his family and that he can't reconcile the difference between what his turning into and what he was before so he winds up killing himself magically from the inside and getting resurrected again as something else

>>150617972

Seems plausible

>>150618270
He drove himself mad from his guil fellow autistic poster.

>>150617897
>you're claiming jets is the thing that makes zero cool

Read the post again >>150617343
It wasn't the jet, it was about how Nasu's grail war was so stale and boring compared to Urobushit's. Zero's war put the servants in more interesting and varied situations compared to Stay Night.

>>150617972
>zerofag

I said earlier on in the thread that I think Fate as a whole is overrated. I wouldn't call myself a Fatefag.

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>>150618183
>Manchildren
>Forgetting to mention the entire cast of Zero

>>150618068
>He is a cripple of a human and it isn't shown why.

Your bias is acting on you here. Kiri's motivations aren't less relateable (or extant), they're just not as abstract or dramatic. That's the main reason why I didn't like Shirou as much, actually. He's just a hard character to write, to begin with, and then Nasu isn't the man to convey that idea.

>>150618270
Hercules' motivation wasn't all that great either. I actually think Lancelot, Guinevere and Artoria's story was better but to each their own I guess. Also Lancelot being the reason for Saber to finally see the error in her ways is just great, goes back to the whole 'philosophy of the kings' thing eariler on. And it was very fitting that he was one of her knights in the past.

>>150618379
Nice job dodging the rest of the post. But yeah you can consider anime characters in general as manchildren. I just thought Caster and Ryuunoske were two goofballs who were perfect for each other, and their happiness was seemed very childish

>>150618502
>the whole shitting all over Saber with shitty kings talking shit about her
Where is Gawain when you need him?

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>>150618577
>dodging
>addressing anyone but manchildren like Kerry as manchildren

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>>150618502
>faggot fanfiction traitor
>Shit tier kings
>>150618596
Here

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>>150618294
The thing about Shirou is, his melodrama is completely irrelevant and stupid in comparison to Kiritsugu's. "Is it so wrong to be good?" yet he's in the middle of fighting already so no matter what the answer, he's already doing what he's doing anyways. This is reminding me of Yasu from Umineko, another character with a poorly written character motivation.

It's true that Shirou is a good kid, and I don't dislike that part of him. It's just that all he is is repeating the same long monologues of "I wanna be a hero" except he's not really saying anything interesting during all of that.

If the answer to Shirou's question is yes, would he really stop fighting for others? I doubt it. If the answer is no, he's already trying his best to become a hero. It's really pointless and Nasu was trying way too hard to be meaningful.

I'm gonna compare Kiritsugu and Shirou in one more post because text limit and then Im gonna rewatch Zero

>>150618795
How do you manage to misunderstand Shirou so badly?
The central question of Shirou's character isn't whether it's right to save people. It's whether one should do that even if it doesn't make them happy, since the pursuit of happiness is meant to take priority above all other things.
Shirou isn't a good person. Shirou doesn't save people because he has any desire to, it's just his twisted impression of trying to capture Kiritsugu's happiness. He has to grow up and look at it from a separate perspective and resolve himself by saying "even if this isn't my way to happiness, it's a pretty nice thing in abstract, and so I'm okay with it".
At least as far as UBW Shirou goes. HF Shirou decides "no, enough, I want personal happiness, this ideal is shitcanned", and that's portrayed as an equally valid option.

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Shirou: Rescued from the disaster
Kiritsugu: Failed to save his village, learned from his mistake and killed his father and Natalya later on. What he's doing is hurting him but he does it because he know it's the right thing to do. He's not being stoic for the sake of being stoic (he shows how weak he is when he cried over Maya and when he wanted to run away from the grail war to be with his loved ones)

As Irisviel said "Kiritsugu can't help but love people."

Shirou: "Is wanting to be a hero so bad?"
Kiritsugu: "I want to end all of the bloodshed. I'll be the bad guy and endure everything for that."

Again like Irisviel said "Kiritsugu knew his dream was childish and impossible, that's why he needed the grail."

Kiritsugu's motivation and autism to me was way more compelling than Shirou's motivation and autism. But hey different strokes for different folks.

Kiritsugu: I"'ll put Avalon in my wife and use her as a decoy while watching from the shadows and take out the masters."
Shirou: "I'll charge recklessly at the bad guys because I'm a generic shonen protagonist and I'll come to high school the next day like nothing happened! And then have generic anime high school hijinx."

Kiritsugu: "I'm gonna hide Avalon in my wife while she pretends to be Saber's master. This will fool others and give me opportunities to kill the other masters."
Shirou: "I'm gonna throw myself at the bad guy but it's okay because I have plot armor!"

Also keep in mind Kiri even used Avalon strategically to counteract the damage from Time Alter. As opposed to Shirou.

Kiritsugu: "I lost Shirley, dad, Natalya. I have to stop all of this."
Shirou: "I want to be a hero because my dad wanted to be a hero. I better keep repeating this so people think I'm deep."

Kiritsugu was a more unique and interesting protagonist than Shirou. He was a failure, yet his faults actually make him a better character. Shirou's inner dilemma of "is it okay to be hero?" is just really meaningless in comparison.

Reminder that you can't criticize Fate's writing until you've read it in Japanese.

>>150619401
Still completely off the mark.
Shirou: had entirety of his human personality literally disintegrated in hellfire, fails at being a human forevermore
Kiritsugu: lost his childhood waifu and decided it's worth killing half the planet (-1) to save half the planet (+1), no matter how much negative reinforcement he gets against such a stupid resolution (and it shows the unrelenting torment he puts himself through), simply because he's written that way, no justification why

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>>150619431

>>150620190
It's true though, Fate's translation was very poor

>ITT:Secondaries

Man, i couldn't believe the amount of bulshit i'm seeing here.
It's like reddit just moved to /a/

People in this thread, that claims to have read the Visual Novel have not real argument, they are just spouting memes.
Meanwhile, Zerobabies are just trying to be edgy with their responses.

Is this the reason why we have a lot of bait images?

>>150614747
>Fate/First Order & Next Order
>Fate/Heaven's Feel
>Fate/Extra: Last Encore
>Prisma Illya movie
Nasu won.

>>150619401
How do people delude themselves into thinking Shirou is a remotely good character? Just because he has strong convictions and yells them loudly doesn't make him high quality.

>>150621141
No, the cancer in these threads are people who try to defend the VN's shit writing. If you unironically think that Fate/stay night was well written then there's no saving you.

>>150614747
>"Fate"
>"Good"
JAJAJAJAJAJAJA

>>150614747
Fate is shit overall. I think the only thing that might be worth to take a look at is Fate/Strange Fake. Zero's like the rest of the franchise: overrated trash

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd1gYH8g2Vg
>the rhino faces are back

>>150621141
>FSNfags accusing FZfags of being edgy

Pot calling the kettle black desu

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>>150614747

Zero is ensemble cast done wrong.

Tsukihime >>> F/SN > Extra >>>>> Zero

I'm tired S/N at this point, though. It's been remade and rehashed endlessly for the past decade. Extra is just about the only Fate-related thing that gets me excited these days, largely because it's different enough that it still feels fresh.

>>150625877
>posts otaku shitservice
>ranks SN > Zero

Seems about right

>>150614747
It doesn't need to. It's making mad money.

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>>150625877
>Extra is just about the only Fate-related thing that gets me excited these days, largely because it's different enough that it still feels fresh.

Agreed.

>>150615413
>Kiritsugu is almost like a completely different character when you see him in flashback in the UBW anime too
That was the fucking point

>>150614803
Fpwp

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>>150618502
>Also Lancelot being the reason for Saber to finally see the error in her ways is just great
But that's wrong, right from the madman's mouth himself. Saber in Zero is so insecure getting bullied by two lousy kings and a fucking misunderstanding sets her off for good, with all the stuff leading to Camlann seeming minor.

>>150618577

>>150618183
>Implying Saber had no development in F/SN

Nice bait

>>150618502
>Saber
>error in her ways
>when Lancelot himself said she was the best King they could have asked for

Secondaries were a mistake

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Nasu /Butcher almost definitely put Diarmuid and Lancelot in the same story because of Grainne being the inspiration for Guinivere's affair, and Diarmuid even does that himself unknowningly to Sola, so why did nothing come of it? There's no exploration or payoff to that setup, they're both just there.

>>150622797

People are stupid and can't understand Shirou's character. It's a result of them being secondaries

>>150622963
>If i dislike something then it's necessarily bad because my taste is objective!

(You)

>>150629434
>There's no such thing as objectivity when assessing the quality of writing

(buttlicker)

>>150614747
No honestly, Look at where they took the franchise.
Prisma Illya is the sequel to Fate/Zero, a crappy lolicon pandering Powerpuff girl/Magical girl steaming pile of trash is what they follow Fate zero with.

>>150629341
>There's no exploration or payoff to that setup, they're both just there.

The Fate franchise in a nutshell.

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Am I alone in thinking Fate/Stay Night is far better than /Zero? F/SN just has a lot more going for in, in terms of character development, action, plot, dialogue, hell even the characters are more likeable.

>>150629542
No. I liked F/SN better, but I haven't read the F/Z novel so I don't think it is completely fair to compare the two.

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>>150619401
Can you at least try? I could walk in and reverse your entire sentance to make Kerry look like shit, if you are going to argue at least try to pull some valid information from the source material
tl:dr Hasn't read the VN

>>150629542
>>150629795
I'm with you two, but as long as the LNs have that awful machine translation I won't read it. Is anyone at BL working on a proper translation?

>>150629486
Onii-Chan, are you an idiot

>>150629542
Given how much FSN established & Zero had to follow, Zero both has the FSN characters to build towards, even Kerry's pre-Shirou personality was there, & is constricted by needing these characters to become how they are in FSN.

>>150629542
I prefer Stay Night, but I still like Zero. I think Shirou is the best character in Fate, his development over the three routes is great.

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>>150629542
At the least I liked the characters is F/SN more than in F/Z.

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>>150629928
He'll deceive himself with that pained face forever.

Ilya was a better tragic heroine than Sakura. It really disappoints me because I wanted to like Sakura, but she ended up just being "Kohaku-lite".

Ryuunosuke and Caster have more interesting character/interactions than every single character in fucking Fate/stay night, and I've read the VN. Just my opinion, but I like Zero more

>>150629928
No I'm not an idiot, I understand that japan enjoys their lolis and such I just wish they made a separate non related spin off show with no connection to fate/zero but that isn't what I got.
I just wanted them to continue with the same tone as Fate/Zero but to be fair they have to make what sells, it's business after all.

>>150629482
>objectivity is dictated by me and me alone!

(retarded)

>>150630205
Prisma Illya was around long before the Zero anime, and even the magical girl concept dates all the way back to Phantasmoon

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>>150622963
>one of japans highest grossing game
>It's shit, i validate it myself, everyone is shit.

>>150630104
I definitely like Kohaku more but they're not that similar besides rape. They way they internalize it. their personality, and their general motivation is very different.

>>150630205

Holy shit kill yourself, secondary.

>>150630235
>implying I'm anon

(uncreative namecaller)

>>150630342
>sales
>having anything to do with writing quality
You're a special kind of retarded aren't you?

>>150630426
>I definitely like Kohaku more but they're not that similar besides rape. They way they internalize it. their personality, and their general motivation is very different.
I think some similarities can be drawn in the way they try to pretend, at least on a surface level, that it never happened/didn't bother them.

They are fairly different still. Especially in regards to how they interacted with their respective protagonists both in their childhoods and in their story age times. Also, the way Kohaku and Shiki interacted felt a lot less contrived than high jumps.

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>>150630642
>criticizes Fate's writing
>only read mirror moon's poor translation

>>150630619
>i-it was not me I swear!

kek

>>150629542
If we're just looking at anime then F/Z walks all over any F/SN adaptation. The problem is any given adaptation will at most get 1/4th of the story.

Comparing the written works the F/SN is the better one. One thing I've always liked about Nasu is that even bit characters are interesting, someone like Kuzuki has no right to have as compelling a story that he has. I will say that Urobuchi had limitations because he needed to follow the plot as it was in the VN but all the original stuff bar Waver is pretty bad, compare Kuzuki to a bit character in Zero like Ryuunosuke, he almost seemed less a character and more a way to inject some hamfisted suffering into the story whenever it was getting to light. One other thing to consider when comparing the anime of a LN to the anime of a VN is that a LN adaptation is pretty cut and dry while a VN adaptation is like watch a LP of someone using godmode. The Fate VN does a great job of using bad ends to flesh out characters and set a tone, one scene that sticks out to me is when Shirou strips Issei's shirt. In the anime it was just a off hand comedy scene but in the VN, for me and I assume at least some other people, that scene acts as relief after the one that comes just before it, where Issei stabs Shirou to death and then slits his own throat. It's somethings that VN's can do that never translates well to other mediums and F/SN is good at using the VN medium to tell a story.

>>150630642

Try reading the original VN, EOP.

>>150631661
>denial
>damage control
>stutter shit

(I think we've exhausted this exchange as much as is good for either of us at this point, so I'm going to wish you the best and let it end here)

>>150629542
>F/SN
>dialogue
>good

Getting through "cooking with Sakura" was such a chore.
And personally I like the characters and characterization in Zero is way more than in F/SN

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>>150614803

>>150614747
Yes, read my coming fanfiction. Expected release of Spring 2017.

>>150614747
Nope. Best Saber in the whole franchise.

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>>150634177
Oh dear god no (unless you mean the suit)

>>150634396
he's right though. It's the best written her character has ever been.

>Pic
If you're nitpicking because Saber is actually """white,""" it doesn't matter considering she's drawn the same way the """asian""" characters are, and they all look white.