Why did they change everything about him? >Fusion doesn't

toriyama is senile and literally every addition to super contradicts with the established facts of dragonball. just accept anything past buu isn't canon. the man is no longer capable of making a proper sequel to it, and clearly neither is anyone involved with super or the shitty fan works

toriyama has forgotten about ssj2, about some dbz characters and he probably doesn't even remember what happened throughout most of dragonball.

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>>149741247
>Both Gogetafags and Vegitofags were btfo in one episode and it's preview.

>Fusion doesn't last forever
>Earings only have so much energy before they defuze
they only really intended for him to last a short time and they wrote themselves into a hole and didn't really have any clever ways for him to unfuse
>>Should've been far more powerful than zamasu (or at least take his hits)
shoulda, coulda, woulda, they decided differently and decided for Trunks to steal the show instead. they just wanted to successfully put out Vegeta and Goku at the same time so Trunks could finish it
>>Not as confident as before, probably more comic relief instead
he could only really act as so if he's winning

>>149741247
Akira Toriyama is the Japanese George Lucas.

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>>149741467
Never thought of that

>Should've been far more powerful than zamasu (or at least take his hits)

Zamasu2 was a potara fusion that included a guy who was already beating Goku/Vegeta 2 on 1, I don't think Vegito should've been THAT much stronger.

>>149741467
he's more like the anti george lucas
george lucas was best under a leash, then they freed him and he went to shit
Toriyama didn't get ridiculous control by editors and fans until the Android Saga

He was just as confident, what are you on about? Right before he defused he was making fun of him for not keeping up with his speed, and before that he said "is that all the power a god has?"

>>149741247
Because Trunks can't shine if he is here. I hate how Toei baited us with the preview.
>toriyama has forgotten about ssj2
SSJ2 was used recently in both the anime and the manga.

>>149741657
It's just Vegettofags crying that he didn't take his dick out and rape Zamasu (or beat him up as a piece of candy). He took a punch or two, so he's ruined now.

>>149741247
i guess i'm definitely never picking up Super

So, is Gogeta the superior fusion now that Vegito only lasts like 30 seconds?

Or do you think they'd retcon Gogeta to last maybe 10-15 seconds?

>>149741247
Vegito vs Zamasu was a fight worthy of an entire episode, maybe even two. This whole episode felt very rushed.

They literally set up the plot line of Supreme Kai and Kibito negating their fusion with the dragon balls so I was CERTAIN that we would have a post arc episode or two of them doing just that for Vegito. Then out of fucking nowhere there's a limit? What was the point of unfusing the Kais then?

Fucking Toriko shit ruined Dragon Ball

If they never force torikoshit, we would never get SS Blue for matching torikoshit hair

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They COULD have just had Vegito hold down Zamasu is order for Trunks to deliver the final blow. But no, they had to de-fuse and get blown the fuck out. I knew Vegito wasn't going to be the one to finish off Zamasu but c'mon THE FUSION WAS FUCKING PERMANENT IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO RETCON IT.

I'm glad this shitty arc is over.

Why didn't they just have Veggito acting like a smarmy cunt then have the Zamasu magic them apart, catching them offguard, and beating them both in that moment.

Also, if the villain could smack around a God version of Vegitto, Trucks should have been vaporized just by being too close. It would have made much more sense if Trunks came out of that spirit ball with red hair.

He had the whole thing under control until his earrings ran out of battery. Even the two hits he took he played up to ruse Zama2 with the spirit sword and discuss philosophy.

I don't see why anyone was saying he was weak. He was styling on that nigga.

>>149741798
The arc may be over but the damage it did to fusions isn't. that's forever part of the series.

>>149741829
He should have been styling on him at SSj1. He should have vaporized Zamasu when he went SSjB

>majin buu just pushes back a huge spirit bomb and laughs
>a nearly dead world makes a spirit bomb and has enough power to kill the fusion of two gods
Kid buu confirmed strongest

>>149741765
No, Gotenks could only hold SSJ3 for five minutes and SSB is a much powerful transformation

>>149741906
But aren't god level transformations different? If it were the same we would have had SSJB3 by now.

>>149741864

this is what i was hoping for desu

he should have gone even without ss (or maybe a little under) and then gone into ss and styled on him shittalking and shit - then zamasu does some memes and vegito finaly goes ssb -> cucks him and fucks him -> then oopsy defuse

>>149741956
Apparently not if Vegetto couldn't hold the form for long. The way I look at it is
Vegetto = 1 hour, SSB = 5 mins
Gogeta = 30 mins, SSB = 2 1/2 mins

They could probably hold anything up to SSB for the full time though, remember SSJ3 was the highest transformation in Z and that's why Gotenks struggled

Anybody got some webms of the vegitto fight? Also the goku kicking/ kaioken fight?

>>149741247
>>149741692
>>149741754
>HURR
>DURR
They defused in DBZ for literally no reason. At least DBS explained it.

>>149741247
>Explained how he unfused in Buu
>Same
>He was. He literally only got hit twice in the entire fight.
>He was still smug as fuck and talked shit, the only difference is he wasn't egging Zamasu like he was Buu.

>>149742040
Yeah but the fight was longer in DBS.

>>149742128
DBZ*

>>149741692
>Do you write down notes anywhere for that sort of background information?
>No, I don’t do that. That’s why I keep on forgetting things. If I don’t forget stuff, new ideas won’t come to mind. For example, you know how there’s “Super Saiyan 3”?
>Yes. Where the hair gets long.
>I didn’t know that. (laughs) The whole time, I thought that was “Super Saiyan 2”. (laughs)
>Whaaa?!
>And I drew that myself. (laughs) Anyhow, I thought “2” was the one with long hair. It was like, “Man, I’ve really forgotten stuff…”.

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-may-2013-akira-toriyama-special-interview/

>>149741651
>the mysterious cabal of the almighty editors is to blame for all instances of shit writing
What a stupid meme.

>>149742116
>he wasn't egging Zamasu

actually he was, right after he kicks him and interrupts his monologue he says "come on kami-sama" and does a bring it gesture with his hands

>>149742168
editors aren't some sort of cabal shit
but they do have a say in on decisions and could be very persuasive

>>149742116
I mean in the sense that he never even intended to kill Buu. He was still fucking around with Zamasu but he intended to still end the fight.

I mean, if you separate DBS from the nostalgia from the previous series and lower expectations, you can still find some stuff you enjoy about the show.

It's never going to be that show you watch as a kid in the afternoon on Toonami again. Super is just mildly entertaining to match the era of anime we're currently living in.

They should've lest DBS die Or jusr have him continue the manga at hi own pace

>>149742128
And it was one sided and boring (but entertaining). The Super fight was far better from a pure action standpoint.

>>149742237
he never intended to kill Buu because his family was inside of him

what kind of gimmick powerup shit can they throw at us since fusion has becomes stale.

Or who can they use to fuse other than Goku/Vegeta

>>149741247
Maybe it would have been better is they didn't have the Senzu beans
That would have explained how weak he was

But knowing Japan, ONLY THE LIGHT OF HUMANITY CAN DEFEAT GOD AND TRUNKS NEEDED TO FIX HIS OWN MISTAKES IN HIS OWN TIMELINE
Yet they don't seem to know how to write that without making everything look weird

>>149742040
They defused in DBZ because they went inside of Buu.

>>149742484
*Citation Needed*

>>149742484
Gotenks went inside Buu and stayed fused for the full duration of the Fusion Dance.

>>149741247
This is the second time a retcon has made a character seem like an incompetent liar. The first time was with Raditz, now with Elder Kai.

>>149741641
Had they fused before Vegeta's training I'd agree. Black was very strong but Zamasu was just pathetic. Zamasu Diety divineness wasn't much more than black with a mini boost and imitation immortality. So Vegeta plus Goku in blue form should have dominated. Also Vegito could have gone Kaioken and really ruined Zamasu's day. He probably would have without much more effort if the "your too strong to live" rule wasn't being applied to Vegito for plot purposes.

>>149742484
>tripfag
of course tripfags opinions are always wrong

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Why didn't they use mafuba on everything?

>>149741247
>should've been fsr more powerful than zamasu

People seem to forget that Zamasu was a Potaro fusion as well, so he got the same increases as Vegito. Even if Zamasu wasn't too strong before fusion, Black was stronger than all of them ao the fusion boost would have been around the same as theirs.

>>149742643
Because it wouldn't be as exciting that way.

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>>149742643
Because then they wouldn't be able to stretch the arc out for some asinine reason only to rush it to meet the December deadline anyway, duh.

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>Final Kamehameha barely destroy anthing
>Picollo with powerlevel less than thousand able to blew moon

FUCKIN TORIKO

>>149742731
hi anon

>>149742664
why did they forget about blacks dimesion ripping scythe

>>149742529
https://youtu.be/WkWybX256as

>>149741641
One thing I don't see people point out is that as it was said in Buu saga Vegetto is particularly powerful fusion because Goku and Vegeta are rivals/opposites. On the other hand Zamasu is literally the same person, so if that effect is relevant at all it is strongly in Vegetto's favor.

>>149741768
I think they just wanted to nostalgia-bait us and use up all of the cards they had, senzu beans, hyperbolic time chamber, mafuba, fusion, spirit bomb... Just stuff it all in, but make sure Trunks gets the last hit.

>>149741247
they patched him for balance purposes

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>>149741467

>>149742819
Vegeta in Super is completely different from him in the Buu Saga. He really didn't need to be convinced at all to fuse and gave Trunks energy without a second thought. I don't think him and Goku are rivals anymore, if Babidi tried to brainwash him today he would kill him instantly instead of taking it on purpose so he can get stronger than Goku

>>149742872
Also forgot kaio ken for one sec, the worst offender. Also also every single ki blast in the series except special beam cannon.

>>149741750
Exactly this

>>149742886
What is the story behind this?

>>149742754
The final Kamehameha was a disgrace. Even the final flash vegeta threw out in dbs was intimidating, but this was some raditz shit.

>>149742921
Yellow=CGI
Purple=Real.
Blue=????

The lengths people will go to defend this sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdKxj77yh_Y

>>149742164
if he has to forget so new ideas come to mind, then he should have just become the artist of the manga, instead of the writer. But his style is so easy to replicate he should as well work on something else all entirely…

>>149742937
Stop advertising your shitty channel.

>>149741247
As soon as the scythe/gas clones appeared this arc took a nosedive. What the fuck happened?

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>>149742935

>>149742872
Basically. Throw in all the things that will distract people from the mediocre writing. People like Vegito, Spirit Bombs etc. Put it in.

>>149742900
He grew so much as a character,super has been great this far(for every part that did not repeat the movies at least),vegito fags must stop shitposting all over the board now we have more information on your character its not what people wanted but its not headcanon anymore

>>149742965
I would agree that is the lowest point, breaking up the cathartic beating Vegeta was giving Black for a waste of time, but the fall began when they returned from the future for a second time which was completely unnecessary and made everyone look dumb.

>>149742964
That's actually the voice for Goku in the abridge series' channel. Who basically defends everything Super does.

>>149742801
>Goku's random theory.
>From a guy who just learned about the fusion 5 mins ago.

>>149742900
>Trunks energy without a second thought.
I think Vegeta from the Buu saga would have done that anyway.

>>149741247
>Fusion doesn't last forever
It does for Kais. Kais are essentially the gods of the DBZ universe so it's not a stretch that the Old Kai just didn't know how it worked with mortals because they usually don't interact with mortals at all let alone give them their earrings which is an important symbol of their status. I don't call this a change because Goku and Vegeta were refused in Majin Buu and they just assumed Buu was the reason, it was never confirmed that it was. The power limit was never clarified in DBZ and is now the reason why they defused so quickly.

>Should've been far more powerful than zamasu
He was far more powerful but Zamasu while weaker, was also ridiculously powerful and only getting stronger because of having Goku Black in him who we know for a fact gets stronger as the fight goes on.

>Not as confident as before, probably more comic relief instead
Vegito was only acting like a cocky dick to Majin Buu so he would absorb him, plain and simple. Vegito didn't want to kill him because he had their children and Piccolo inside him. Plus characters are multi-faceted, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a cocky side.

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>>149742886
george lucas a shit can't believe he sold the rights to star wars to Disney
Disney fanfiction is pretty much copying the old well established canon known as "legends" now and making thier copy concepts shit.

>>149742921
Also he's marking on an original, instead of a copy. That's why their look on their faces.

>>149743053
by the end sure, but not when Vegetto formed. He was still in the "I'll do it all myself fuck everyone" mode, which is what made the original scene of Goku convincing him so great

>>149743066
Well at least Disney won't have Karen Traviss.

>>149743112
I wanted to see Tenel Ka Djo though

>>149743050
The kai in DBZ told them it was permanent. The were violently ripped apart the moment the barrier lowered. And Old Kai has been fused for generations.

>>149743087
>He was still in the "I'll do it all myself fuck everyone" mode

You're forgetting that unlike Goku or Gohan, Trunks is Vegeta's own son.

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>goku spamming fireballs almost every eps

what the fuck is this shit

>>149743184
Yes, but he still wanted to win fights himself. He just came off of knocking Goku out to go fight Buu himself, he's teamed up with him in Super throughout this arc without a problem. Maybe you're right anyhow, but my original point was that him and Goku aren't so much rivals anymore because he's changed so much as a character compared to where he was before.

>>149741247
What was that rift Black opened?
What were those gas clones?
What is Trunk's transformation?
What was that sword spirit bomb thing?
How did Trunks go from SSJ2 to Vegito level?
Why did this arc go full power of friendship at the end?
Why is Goku so stupid now?
Is SSJB the worst transformation in the series?
Why was Vegito so underwhelming?
How is Goku alone stronger than Trunks and Vegeta together?

>>149741775
Yeah I was really hoping Vegito would stick around at least for 1 more episode while they gather the dragon balls to unfuse him. Instead they just go with a lazy retcon.

>>149743058
>Old Kai just didn't know how it worked with mortals
He's literally fused with a ningen.

>>149743443
shut the fuck up

How strong would SSB Trunks be? His SSJ2 is already as strong as FZamasu and SSB Vegetto.

>>149743503
make me bitch lol

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>>149743443
Just buy more merch.

>>149743516
1 shot Zeno

>>149743516
he wasn't in ssj2 it's more of a Pseudo Super Saiyan Blue his ssj2 is as strong as goku's ssj3 form and thanks to vegeta's training he was able to at least repel ssjr goku black

>>149743443
this is all you have to know:
angry trunks > vegeto > zamasu + black > black > goku > kind of angry trunks > vegeta + trunks > vegeta > black > goku > zamasu
hope that cleared any questions you might have

>>149742245
Those twelve eps of one punch man have completely usurped DB as THE action shounen of the new gen.

They even use the awful digital stuff that's taken over the world to better effect then them.

>>149742484
Remember Buutenks

>>149743692
the action shounen of the new gen is dragon ball z. a classic remains a classic. one meme man will never come even close to dbz in any way, shape or form. it's entertaining, but that's about it

super is trash but that's a completely different discussion

If Zeno revives the entire future cast I'm fucking done with this show.

>>149743443
>What was that rift Black opened?
Random stupid bullshit that was ripped from the Evil buu vs Gotenks and Buuhan fight.
>What were those gas clones?
More shit ripped from the evil buu vs gotenks fight
>What is Trunk's transformation?
Stupid asspull bullshit created by the hack writers to explain away trunks getting yet another plot(if you can call it that) dependent powerup
>What was that sword spirit bomb thing?
Random stupid bullshit that makes no fucking sense on any level and seems horribly dangerous and slightly evil.
>How did Trunks go from SSJ2 to Vegito level?
Shit plot. I told you.
>Why did this arc go full power of friendship at the end?
Horrible writers and japan's anime creators being pussies.
>Why is Goku so stupid now?
He's been flanderized(and I hate using trope terms)because him acting like his DBZ or DB self would end in a lot of shit getting done.
>Is SSJB the worst transformation in the series?
Yes. Yes it is. It's beyond pointless and looks gaudy as fuck.
>Why was Vegito so underwhelming?
He was always underwhelming. You're just not a 10 year old girl who can be easily wowed by shit talking and being super duper powerful.
>How is Goku alone stronger than Trunks and Vegeta together?
Shit plot.
This could have easily been fixed with him going kaioken times 100 and having a kamehawave battle with blackmasu. But that makes too much sense and he had to go kaioken to, I shit you not, break a fucking ankle grab.

>>149743747
>the action shounen of the new gen is dragon ball z. a classic remains a classic. one meme man will never come even close to dbz in any way, shape or form. it's entertaining, but that's about it
>super is trash but that's a completely different discussion

They never grew up with Z.
Their first and the largest exposure to DB is fucking SUPER.
They don't give a shit about fanbait stuff like future trunks and vegetto and kaioken.
They and their peer group never grew up with it.
And because of the way its' actually treated in the anime it is actually less impressive and important to a first time viewer.

NOTHING means anything and very important things for the series are routinely thrown away or made lesser so the writers can write themselves out of a plot hole or corner or sell more merch

OPM beats Super because it succeeds where DB now fails.
Battles and internal consistency and a coherent plot.

In the first goddamned ep of OP we were treated to a battle that was better then basically every battle we've seen since ep fucking one. And you know what?
They use that god awful digital stuff too.

When will goku have to kill vegeta?

>>149744010
are you illiterate or just pretending to be retarded? or maybe trying to derail the thread? super is dogshit, you mouthbreather. i never said it wasn't. that doesn't change the fact that dbz takes a dump all over opm and your wishful thinking won't change that.

and despite how garbage super is, opm won't be more popular either. not with adults, not with children, not even here. get over it and get the fuck out. this thread isn't for opm discussion

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>>149741750
Seriously, even Buu landed hits on him and made him react as if it fucking hurt.

But since when did people take any of this seriously beyond more shitposting material?

If Vegito didn't kill off Buu what the fuck made them think he'd take out Zamasu when for the past 12 fucking episodes it's all been about Trunks getting the revenge kill? What the fuck were they expecting?

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So am I the only one that laughed when Trunks cut Zamasu in half starting at the dick?

daily reminder that if you still defend how trunks managed to go from ss3 levels to ssb vegito levels within a span of 2 days without training, you're a shameless gary sturankusu faggot and should go back to plebbit.

Why do we care about this show so much? Why can't we just let go?

>>149744244
Don't post Haman again, faggot.

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>>149744305

>>149744251
I laughed at how much resistance it offered. I was expecting a clean cut.

>>149744262
>muh human-saiyan hybrid

>>149744281
i don't know. maybe we expected them to have learned something after gt? maybe we expected something since toriyama was working on it, despite the fact that we should've known by now that he's senile? maybe it's just that we all grew up with dragonball and seeing it get raped again is just too much to ignore

super is just SO BAD though. we'd all be living in a better timeline if it had never happened. all the bullshit and contradictions they have created only serve to make the dragonball story as a whole worse. at least gt had the decency of only ruining "the future", whereas super's additions are so bad that they retroactively make dragonball worse if you consider them canon. maybe that's why we all feel the need to shit on it so much. it actually makes previous events worse due to all the new stuff effectively breaking and contradicting the story in several ways

>>149743443
>What is Trunk's transformation?
He absorbed a henkidama which had been pumped up by goku and vegeta. It wasn't a special transformation or nothing.

>>149741750

Do you even understand why Vegettofags think that Vegetto should've been absolutely overpowering?

Did you fucking see the previous episode where Goku was actually doing well against Zamasu? Yeah, going by Goku's performance against him, it would've made sense for Vegetto to absolutely mop the floor with him.

But no, keep thinking that Zamasu should've been anywhere near close to Vegetto's level.

>>149741765

They fucked it all up now. SSJ3 Gotenks only lasts 5 minutes when it should last 30 minutes. SSB Vegetto only lasts a couple of minutes when apparently it lasts for an hour with potara.

Now we'll never get Gogeta since he'd pretty much instantly defuse after transforming into SSB.

I don't get how they could fuck up this badly. Even SSJ4 Gogeta lasted for minutes, and he was billions of times more powerful than SSJ3 Gotenks. Jesus, even FUCKING DBGT HANDLED FUSION TIME LIMITS BETTER!

King dork baby shows up in the next ep anyways. Just have him clap his hands and poof goku vegeta are back.

Don't know how the writers thought they were in a hole.

I kind of like how Trunks killed Zamasu with a broken sword. Muh symbolism

What if Super Trunks fused with Xeno Trunks?

>>149744454
it was established before that the genki dama doesn't take actual energy, but vital/life energy. if it took their ki, they could've easily killed buu with just the energy of the z warriors, for example

goku and vegeta don't have any more life force than the regular person, so this excuse doesn't work. if they wanted to do that, they could've done it too. piccolo actually absorbed energy from gohan and krillin in the freeza saga to deal a blow to freeza while goku was charging the spirit bomb. there was even a precedent for that (not like toriyama would remember it though)

>>149744540
There's a game with 5 character fusions. Gotta step it up.

>>149744467
I think the reason the fusion was quite so short is that the ending was rushed. Clearly they planned all along that Trunks gets the last hit but they really should've given Vegetto a whole episode or two.

>>149741906
>>149744467
To be fair SSJ3 is kinda notrious for it's energy drain, maybe the Dance works differently from the Ear rings that instead of having an item that provides power for the fusion it's the bodies, and with how SSB doesn't have a giant energy strain on the user it might actually last a bit longer.
just my 2 cents, not like we're ever going to see how Blue works with the dance.

>>149744551
Whatever, trunks absorbed a genkidama and killed the bad guy, because, that is what genkidamas do when they aren't used to job: Kill the bad guy.

I have more issues with the fact that Trunks made one by accident. Like, didn't goku need special training from king kai to be able to use it at all? Hasn't he been the only one able to do it since then?

>>149744591
This, the episode, while pretty cool felt incredibly rushed, like Toei really wants to get to the next arc or something.

>>149744631
God I hope they explain that.

>>149744378
>maybe we expected them to have learned something after gt?

Fuck, the only thing they learned from GT is how much of a cash cow series they have.

Man, I wouldn't even mind Super if it looked like it had got some heart and soul into it like Dragonball Multiverse. And yes, I know DBM isn't perfect, but at least it's written by someone who knows the Dragonball Canon and respects it.

The people working on DBS don't even really seem to care about DB in general. I've felt like for a while that DBS is just a cash in on a franchise that'll forever be popular in Japan(and worldwide to an extent.). It's not made by people who actually like it, but by people who just want more money, so they just slap random shit together and call it a day.

>>149744631
>Whatever, trunks absorbed a genkidama and killed the bad guy, because, that is what genkidamas do when they aren't used to job: Kill the bad guy.
in other words, poor writing

this same shitty reasoning could be applied to make even gt a masterpiece

"whatever, base kid goku absorbed the genki dama and beat the bad guy. it's a kid's show. the good guy beats the bad guy in the end"

it's like people don't even read their own posts in these threads when defending this shitheap

>>149744663
>felt incredibly rushed
And this angers me all the more that they wasted so many eps on mafuba but only gave 1 episode for fusion, kaioken AND spirit bomb.

I haven't watched any of DBS except for the last couple of episodes but do they really not highlight big moves like the old days? There was no hype to the Final Kamehameha. It was just flaccid as fuck. There was no big build up for the Spirit Bomb Sword it just happened and was also flaccid as fuck, I mean, I don't want some of those moments where they spend ten minutes charging or building up a move but just a minute to show that the move is fucking awesome in some way. Even the fucking Gallic Gun and Kamehameha got more than both big moves in this episode.

>>149744711
yeah, this thread made me realize the real problem with super: they don't give a fuck about the established lore. so super is effectively making dragonball worse just by existing, since it's making changes that are retroactively changing it (from whis and beerus to the potara etc). and most of those are so poorly thoughout too. the potara change wasn't even necessary in the first place, just to name one: they could've asked zeno to undo it, summoned the dragon balls, some bs zamasu/gowasu technique to do it and so on

>>149741247
At least they didn't change YOSSHAAAAA

>>149744750
They hyped the fuck out of kaio ken the first time it appeared. This episode was an abberation in how many big moves were used and how badly they were executed.

>>149744750
Well the first Final Kamehameha wasn't that hyped up either, but you're not wrong that they don't spent too much time on those power up sequences.

>>149741247
He was more powerful than Zamasu though, he was pretty much toying with him like when he pretended to faint just to stab him with his beam blade

>>149744750
they don't know how to properly pace the episodes. dbz had horrible pacing yet it was still better than super. think about that for a moment

>>149741798
why do people keep meming that the potarra earring are supposed to last forever. THEY DIDN'T EVEN LAST FOREVER IN THE BUU FIGHT

>>149744886
People just want a reason to shit on Super. Sam with spirit bomb.

>>149744886
Because ancient Kai said they would last forever. Sure one can say that them defusing due to buu's stomach acid can be considered as unreliable narrator/a guess, Goku and Vegeta are dumb, but ancient Kai should've known his shit.

>>149744886
the potara duration is just a drop in the bucket. if only that was super's biggest problem

>>149744830
I literally don't even remember when they first did it.

I like how all the ''inconsistencies'' people find to shit on the series are either non-issues or shit that can be easily explained away
Fucking ningens

>>149744711
>>149744764
Ironically, DBS instead gave us more lore by explaining how the gods work

>Beerus and Whis are a contradiction

Explain, I'll laugh

>>149745016
it's pretty obvious, shitposter-kun. kid buu was threatening the afterlife and the entire universe, yet none of the angels show up to do anything about it

>>149744907
Didn't the kai also said Potara fusion is the strongest (tm)?

KEK

Vegito in super god form was weak as shit.

>>149744467
The jobber half of Vegito actually weakened the winner half.

>>149745036
Beerus was supposed to take of Buu, yes. That is actually outright stated in the DBS manga, he's just fucking terrible at his job.

However the angels are pretty neutral, as in they don't give a shit. And why the hell would the angels of the other universes be worried about something that is only happening in one universe?
The angels simply make sure that the god they are watching over is doing a good job, they don't give a shit about the rest. Whis didn't even bother waking up Beerus when his life was threatened and it's pretty hinted how Whis would have zero problems with another god of destruction being appointed.

So now tell me, autist-kun, how does this ''retroactively ruin'' DBZ in ANY way? HOW is this a contradiction?

It's not, it's exactly what I said here >>149744947, you people whine about over the stupidest fucking things

>>149744597
this
SS3 vents energy like nobody's business, which is why it shortens the fusion time
SSB only shortened the patorra because, as we now know, mortals using it, but having god ki, basically makes it short circuit
This means that after this point, Gogeta is the superior fusion, because SSB doesn't have a massive power drain like SS3

>>149745137
W-well that's just my theory, and it hinges on the potara being a power supplier for the fusion meaning the raw power is being produced by and maintained by it, the Dance could possibly have the same weakness in duration with blue going down from 30 to 3 minutes.

>>149745099
your excuses are as good as >>149744631
"well whatever, good guy killed bad guy"
"well, beerus is bad at his job, whatever"
"well, the angels don't care, whatever"
"whis doesn't care, whatever"

yeah no. that's called poor writing. these characters were never meant to exist and the explanations for their non interference is poorly thought out

again, might as well as defend gt with "well, base kid goku absorbed the genki dama and won. nothing wrong with that. good guy beats bad guy"

super is shit and you're bending over backwards to defend it

>>149745137
Didn't Goku not go SSB off the bat vs Hit because he said it would drain his stamina?

>>149745164
>Well goku used the kameha and beat the bad guy because that is what he does
>Well, Goku turned into the impossible super saiyan and beat the bad guy because he had to kill the bad guy
>Well, goku became a bigger super saiyan because reason lol
It's always been the writing for this show. Good guy gets a dumb power up to finish the bad guy, because, that is how this series has worked since Z.

>>149745210
Yeah, both definitely have a stamina drain, but i honestly feel like SSJ3 Drains more faster.
Atleast that's my opinion.

>>149745249
If SSB still drains stamina even though Goku is eons above his Buu Saga self then I'm assuming that SSB Gogeta would have the same issue. Didn't he also say when Beerus came originally to King Kai that he had no problem with SSJ3 anymore?

>>149745164
Oh, so now you moved the goalpost to ''Whis and Beerus being a contradiction'' to ''it's poor writing''

I suppose you agree with my explanation then, yes?

And how is it ''poor writing'' exactly, when it fucking expanded the lore of the hierarchy of the deities in the Dragon Ball franchise?
We now know that there are 12 universes: each with a set of kaioshins, a god of destruction, an angel, a mortal realm, a god realm, a demon realm and an after-life.
We also know that above them all there's Zeno.

This right here is lore expansion, it doesn't ''ruin'' DBZ, it makes it more interesting. It makes you wonder ''man yeah Beerus is shit, but how would the other gods of destructions have handled Buu?''. It also makes you realize that everything that happened in DBZ before was very small scale.
This is actually a good direction for the series, because after Buu you're left wondering ''man how can they introduce an even bigger threat?''. Well here's how: by introducing a whole multiverse and a set of characters WAY stronger than anyone in DBZ. Not by just rehashing shit like GT tried to.

>>149745243
Also this, it's a fucking archeotype. It doesn't correlate to being ''bad writing''

Again, non-issues.

>>149745293
Well I don't think Stamina from form consumption and raw power scale linerarly with each other.
But it's definitely possible.

>>149745375
I mean I guess SSB in the dance possibly won't drain stamina because it literally has no advantages as of now, so it has to get something to be considered viable. We'll see, but for now I still think SSB would shorten the fusion dance timer as well.

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I'm curious /a/. Holding to the same episode format, how would you have written it differently?

Personally,
>Vegeta and Goku about to fuse.
>About to use the Zensu beans from Trunks
>Oh no! Zamasu blows the bag up.
>Vegitto fusion, Tired, weakened and desperate. (at the very least this would have made more sense.)
>Trunks has his big self realization moment
>Does the Spirit bomb sword thing.
>Takes Vegittos god ki
>BTFO's Zamasu while a kickass 2016 remix of "Hikari no Willpower plays for maximum overhype.

The way they did it was not only completely idiotic with the weak retcons but totally anti-hype.

Don't get me wrong, this is super. It was still a 9/10 episode and better than we have any right to deserve but DBS is literally missed opportunities the show.

>>149745210
They stated that subsequent transformations take a power hit, which is why Vegeta lost so badly against Hit
SS3 has a stamina drain for the duration you use it, SSB just has an up front cost, which increases if you don't allow your body cool down time.
Original Super Saiyan worked much the same way, just with a less drastic power drop per transformation

>>149745403
>They stated that subsequent transformations take a power hit, which is why Vegeta lost so badly against Hit

Wasn't that manga only? I remember in the manga it was said that Vegeta only had 10% of his power or something but nothing like that was implied in the anime.

>Trunks stealing the spotlight from Vegito/Goku
The elevens will not like this at all. Trunks is going to become the new Gohan.

>>149745402
That is even worse

They shouldn't have put a time-limit, they should have just explained how SSB is too much for the potara thus resulting in the sudden defusion.

Either that or this: >>149741798

However I still liked the episode and overall the Zamasu saga was my favorite

>>149745402
>Goku vegeta fuse
>vegito comes up and fights Zamasu
>they defuse after turning super saiyan god because muh "permanent" fusion
>zamasu beat them up
>trunks comes to rescue
>he gets beat up
>Vegeta/Goku try out fusion dance
>Gogeta comes up and defeats Zamas without even going super saiyan or god form

>>149745502
Vegeta doesn't know how to do the dance but seeing the retcons and asspulls they did that wouldn't have mattered

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>Frieza symbolizes authority and the need to keep your reign under your control
>Cell symbolizes the selfishness of evolution and how species will do anything to survive and reproduce
>Buu symbolizes pure chaos
>Zamasu symbolizes radicalism and how by taking your morals and ideals to an extreme you're gonna end up becoming the thing you're tying to fight against

So what's next?

>>149745529
Vegeta has seen Trunks/Goten do it plenty

>>149745529
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seeqTovqVLQ

>doesn't know

>>149745545
yes but he still never practiced it, if he fucked it up once they would have been done

>>149745541
>Frieza: Neutral Evil
>Cell: Chaotic Neutral
>Buu: Chaotic Evil
>Zamasu: Lawful Evil

>>149745561
Goten and Trunks practiced the dance for awhile before they mastered it and Vegeta hasn't even attempted to do it once

but like I said with the asspuls they did it could have been done easily

>>149741247
>Fusion doesn't last forever
Gotenks didn't defuse inside of Super Buu because of 'nasty air', why did Vegito? Supreme Kai and Elder Kai were wrong and Gowasu knew more about it than they did. It doesn't last forever. Gotenks only defused inside Super Buu due to the time limit.
>Earings only have so much energy before they defuze
They straight up say in DBZ that using SSJ3 as Gotenks would take up more time for the Fusion, much like using SSJ3 for Goku would take up his time on Earth. The same stands for SSJB Vegito.
>Should've been far more powerful than zamasu (or at least take his hits)
He clearly was. He was very obviously taking the hits like it was nothing and mostly just screwing around. Zamasu's body was just semi-immortal.
>Not as confident as before, probably more comic relief instead
Not confident? The first thing he does, is tell Zamasu to try and hurt him, then lays down just waiting for Zamasu to come just so he can hit him with the sword and then brag about how he can do it too. And that "Is this all the power of a God?"

Do you people even watch the show?

>>149745295
>This is actually a good direction for the series, because after Buu you're left wondering ''man how can they introduce an even bigger threat?''. Well here's how: by introducing a whole multiverse and a set of characters WAY stronger than anyone in DBZ. Not by just rehashing shit like GT tried to.

This, what you niggers don't realize is that by introducing this whole system the series has been taken to a much bigger scale.
Like for example I'm interested to see what's in the other universes. I'd like a saga dedicated to U6 Earth.

>>149745573
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vioBSO_7VJM

This is Vegeta without any knowledge of the fusion dance. With a vegeta that has seen the fusion dance tons of times, all it would do is take few seconds. He already knows about the consequences of failing too with the fat gotenks and shit.

Its not rocket science. Just simple observations, which Vegeta can do.

>>149745577
I want a True Neutral villain now

How would that work in Dragon Ball?

>>149745622
Hit is kinda close.

>>149745622
beerus

>>149745617
So why risk the potential failure when there's no risk at all for Potara now? The dance is obsolete at this point

>>149745617
Fusion Reborn isn't canon. Toriyama himself said the movies were nothing more than what if parallel stories in their own little speshul snowflaek timeline.

With that said, Vegeta was dead when Gotenks was a thing, he never once saw them fail the Fusion. Gogeta would have been a disaster had they tried to fuse right then and there with the Fusion Dance. Potara is instant.

>>149745660
Oh yeah, he does qualify for that I guess

>>149745476
>That is even worse
Nuh-uh!
>They shouldn't have put a time-limit
Nothing else makes me mad like this. I think it's the dumbest thing to come out of Super. Dumber than Goku never kissing his wife.
>they should have just explained how SSB is too much for the potara thus resulting in the sudden defusion.
Not gonna lie. That'd have been cool and been totally in line with how DBZ wrote almost all of it's arcs. DBZ was always about subverting expectations, for example with things like telling us there are two androids and then delivering on five of them! Nothing would have subverted expectations like seeing Vegitto power up so hard he shatters his own potara.
>Vegeta doesn't know how to do the dance but seeing the retcons and asspulls they did that wouldn't have mattered
Flashback of Trunks forcing him to learn it because Vegeta is best dad. Problem solved

>>149745662
Fusion is completely useless now since they insist of this "using too much power ends the fusion prematurely" bullshit that GT started.

I was thinking the last two episodes had weird Sainto Seiya vibes, but suddenly everyone discovers his Cosmos and sends energy to the hero to defeat the Villain!

Did Toei recycle one of Saint Seiya's scenarists or what?

>>149745662
Potara is weak and lasts less than a minute now. So potara is useless on any real fight. There is no risk with potara and there is no reward either. Instead potara is a giant waste of time.

>>149745666
Ofcourse the movies and GT are parallel, not the timeline the Z/Super are following. But it can be done and should be done now that the Potara is a useless piece of shit.

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>>149745683
>that GT started.

>>149745696
How is it weak? It lasting forever got retconned, it's strength did not

>>149745687
No, its the same old Spirit Bomb trope as always.

The only difference is Trunks did is subconsciously. He started drawing energy around in an effort to try and overpower Zamasu. Due to his little speech about accepting his weakness and wanting to help everyone truly, he qualified as a Pure Heart that could gather the energy in the first place. He then just used its ki in place of the Ki Sword he already had.

It all fits just fine.

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Listen I don't fucking care how you felt about this scene, but you gotta admit how fucking 10/10 Zamasu's voice-acting is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpFGkx278J0
You can literally feel the breakdown

>>149745715
It does not

>>149745602
A much higher scale that is stalled by smoke grenades from normal humans

>>149745696
>Ofcourse the movies and GT are parallel, not the timeline the Z/Super are following. But it can be done and should be done now that the Potara is a useless piece of shit.

Potara isn't useless, its instant. The Fusion Dance still takes time and has the possibility of even the slightest twitch and screwing up and being disastrous. Potara isn't useless by any means.

>>149745745
gods still have senses

>>149745713
Vegito was weak as shit. Couldn't even defeat Zamasu, where as Trunks raped the shit out of Zamasu.

Not only that, the "it lasts 1 hour" is even weaker than the "it lasting forever got retconned" because now the 1 hour is simply less than a minute when he powers up. So went from permastate -> 1 hour -> 1 minute.

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>>149745713
Later on when they run the SS3 timelimit it doesn't force unfuse them though.

>>149745724
The amount of fallout and shitposting aside, I loved the episode, I thought it was fantastic as was this arc, even if it was a bit rushed at times.

Zamasu's You Again Trunks was fucking perfect, and how you can tell the reverberation and actual rage in his voice. Honestly the whole episode made me feel like a legit kid again, where I didn't care about a retcon, or this, or that. It was all just silly fun and I fucking loved it.

>>149741247
I hope manga fix this shit.

>>149745758
And can't just use ki to blow smoke away. Or fly upwards out of the way of it. Or just power up so it never even reaches them. Or jump away.

>>149745762
But it didn't last a minute, what episode were you watching?

>>149745766
True but they lost the fusion like 7 or 8 pages later, so they were half right

>>149745785
You are very optimistic to believe it can be fixed

>>149745775
>Zamasu's You Again Trunks was fucking perfect

Not as good as

>So where are you gonna run for help now? The past or the future?

There, you can literally feel the utter insanity there. You can hear how unstable he is there.

Zamasu's VA is top-tier, he's been voicing many characters including James from the Pokemon anime or Light from Death Note (kek)

>>149745800
Don't you know? Grenades are faster than gods of destruction

>Black Saga in a nutshell
I'M SICK OF GOKU AND VEGETA
>Trunks shows up
OMG TRUNKS PLEASE SAVE THE DAY AND GET THE KILL
>Trunks gets a power up to stay on top of things
HOLY SHIT GARY STU THIS IS SO UNLIKE ALL THE OTHER SAIYAN RAGE MOMENTS THAT TOTALLY MADE SENSE
>Goku and Vegeta still upshowing Trunks
COME ON STOP WITH THEM
>Vegito
YAY VEGITO SAVE THE DAY GET THE WIN BEAT THE BAD GUY WOOOOO
>Trunks gets the win
WHAT THE FUCK GARY STU PIECE OF SHIT RUINING VEGITO'S (GOKU AND VEGETA) TIME TO SHINE HOW DARE YOU REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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You got fookin nuttin
Fookin nuting thats what you got you cucks. Best boi reached a power so high he was able to defeat immortality.
Dont you ever compare him to jobbers like goku/vegeto/jobetto
He all stronger and better then them. he doesnt even need to call out for energy with his hands . Energy comes to him because it knows better.
Royal ssj prince of all sayians and earthlings Bitches
Trunks for live
BEST BOI NOW STOP COMPLAINING

Why did they waste both senzus by eating them before fusing

Why didn't they just fuse first, eat one senzu and then save the other

>>149745816
Yep, lots of shit in this arc but the Zamasu VA and to an extent Black (noreso his lines) was top notch.

>>149745841
But it's a fact that the writing for Trunks and his countless power ups have been fucking atrocious and I can understand why people went from liking him to hating him by the end.

Ah shit now we gotta handle underage fags who suck up all kinds of shitty writing.

>>149745841
>fucking Goku and Vegeta get all the attention
>WHY IS TRUNKS GETTING SO MUCH ATTENTION

You can't please everyone, that's just how it is

>>149745816
I love his entire speech against Trunks from the moment he showed up, I thought it was fantastic honestly. 10/10 from Zamasu. I hope the Zamasu Dub VA is good, I generally really like the DBZ dub and BoG/RoF were good, hopefully Schemmel changes his voice from Black based on XV2, but I don't know if they will ever match Zamasu's original voice at all.

Also I knew I noticed that tone somewhere, Light, that's who it was. Top tier, even if Light became a little bitch as it went on. Great swimming instructor though.

It's just a pity the creators decide to blow their load so early. It's obvious they want to keep the series going but now we've already seen godlike strong people in Beerus, Super Saiyan God Goku, Super Saiyan Blue, Zeno and villain wise we got Zamasu all nd Black who felt more like an end series final villain than anything.
And now to keep the series going you need to top that?
That's like starting an RPG and by the time the first half is done you're already level 99 with the best gear and already defeated a world ender boss. And the game still not even near the end yet.

I mean of course they'll probably get even more powerful later on, we'll probably see Super Saiyan 3 Blue or something but isn't that what people don't want to see? Even more of a power gap?

>>149743819
Make it so.

>>149745816
>Light Yagami
Except he doesn't have Shinichiro Miki as his VA

>>149745841
>Superfag defends atrocious writing like a retard

>>149743184
Old Kai is a retard who knows nothing and only looks old because he fused wit ha hag.

He is full of crap. Based Gowasu knows his shit.

>>149745846
Nigga shut the fuck up and go back to tumblr.

>>149745898
I doubt there is a new transformation after SSB. People speculated that SSB Vegetto would BTFO Beerus easily and as we see now that isn't close to the case, they still have much more to work on

>>149745864
Hey remember that time Gohan went SSJ2 not because of his family and friends but because of an Android he had never met once in his entire life told him to let go, the same Android that wanted to kill his father?

Remember that, remember when that made sense? Remember when not long after that Goku showed up and was like Oh yeah, SSJ3 guys.

Trunks got 1 power-up through Rage, 1. The Spirit Bomb Sword was not a power-up, its a technique, and even then he had Goku, Vegeta, and the entire planet's energy, plus his own. There was still shit on the planet, Spirit Bomb takes from everything, even inanimate objects according to King Kai.

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Friendly reminder that vegetto retcon is canon and will appaer in the manga.
Early merch confirms.

Remember the fusion dance?

>>149745898
I don't see the issue, first of all the creators in an interview before episode 66 aired stated that Beerus (and therefore everyone above him) is still stronger.
Second of all there's a whole multiverse to explore and we still even haven't seen Hit as his full.

>>149745945
>Trunks got 1 power-up through Rage
He went from being weaker than SS3 Goku to fighting Black and Zamasu alone and holding them off to defeating fusion Zamasu.

He had a power up like once an episode to catch up with everyone else.

>>149745961
I member.

>>149745906
>>Superfag defends atrocious writing like a retard

All of Dragon Ball is written like shit. Toriyama is not a goddamn writer. He makes gags and funny little smiley face poop jokes and shit. I love Dragon Ball, but its never be written well, ever. Toriyama had editors to try and fix some of his shit and redesign things.

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>>149745846
Fuck them all they got nothing on best boi hahaha the tears are delicious.

>>149745973
>but its never be written well, ever.
Examples. Cite your explanations with an opinion on why specifically each plot point was bad for brownie points.

>>149745945
>Hey remember that time Gohan went SSJ2 not because of his family and friends

The Cell Jrs were beating the shit out of them, he was already on the edge. If one of them really got hurt or died that would have been it

>>149745972
Remember spirit bomb charging over 3 episodes?

>>149745969
>He had a power up like once an episode to catch up with everyone else.
That's completely utterly false, he simply got the pseudo-SSB thing and stuck to it.
>>149745973
And to add on that, for DB's low standards, I felt Zamasu was actually a pretty legit villain and the best one in the franchise by far

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>>149745980

>>149745969
Goku went from the same strength as Vegeta to holding back Holy Wrath by himself without Kaio-ken that even a Vegeta who trained for 6 months and Trunks both had to push back.

>>149745945
SSj2 Trunks somehow keeps pace with Rose Black before he ever gets any sort of power up despite only being SSj3 tier.

The power up came out of nowhere whereas Gohan has always had rage fueled power ups.

The Spirit Bomb Sword is from a technique he's never seen and is powered by a completely ravaged planet with only a handful of people left whereas Kid Buu took literally everything a populated Earth had.

Also, you're a faggot

>>149742664
two super cyans > black and some pleb kaioshin

>>149746010
no nonononnooono

no no no no n ooo no no no no no no lol no no no NO NONONO

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Should've done this instead. Potara is useless shit.

>>149744867
he actually lost the fist fight and decided to take advantage of the loss by stabbing Zamasu while he was distracted
if he could there was no reason to not kill him right away

>>149746010
Lmao this is perfect

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I like how all the people who try to shit on Super get constantly BTFO

You are all nostalgiafags whining over stupid small things, it takes like 1 second to explain whatever stupid issue you may have

>>149745577
>Zamasu: Lawful Evil
Gods are not evil. He is Lawful good or Chaotic good.

>>149746020
>SSj2 Trunks somehow keeps pace with Rose Black before he ever gets any sort of power up despite only being SSj3 tier.

Gohan was able to hurt Third Form Frieza despite being vastly weaker.

SSJ2 Vegeta was able to keep pace with Beerus all because he got angry over Bulma, even though SSJ3 Goku couldn't even hardly touch him.

>The power up came out of nowhere whereas Gohan has always had rage fueled power ups.

Just like every Saiyan? Ya know the entire purpose of Super Saiyan, the transformation that uses rage?

>The Spirit Bomb Sword is from a technique he's never seen and is powered by a completely ravaged planet with only a handful of people left whereas Kid Buu took literally everything a populated Earth had.

A technique that is taught by Kais, when he trained with Kais. Also yes that completely ravaged planet with grass and trees and entire forests and oceans still at places.

>Also, you're a faggot

No, you're just mad that DBZ has been doing the same shit its done for decades now.

>>149746088
Shut up Zamasu

>>149746088
I regret not mentioning, but I think he transitions from Lawful Good to Lawful Evil.

>>149746085
Explain trunks summoning the spirit bomb out of his ass

>>149746088
Gods are THE LAW and THE GOOD.

So he's always a lawful good good.

>>149746092
>SSJ2 Vegeta was able to keep pace with Beerus all because he got angry over Bulma, even though SSJ3 Goku couldn't even hardly touch him.
They even say that him getting really angry mad him stronger than Goku somehow.

>>149746085
Super is shit. That Trunks scene was great though, too bad the good moments are drowned in filler and ugly shit.

>>149746085
dumb kai poster

>>149746110
He wanted energy to beat Zamasu, he drew energy subconsciously, ie: Spirit Bomb.

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>>149746092
>A technique that is taught by Kais, when he trained with Kais

Holy fucking shit, there you go. An easy explanation for Trunks being able to do that, I completely forgot about it.

Well it seems there are zero issues now, well done anon.

If anything the writers should be blamed for being too vague but they are on a deadline and there's the manga that will explain things more deeply

>>149746114
>They even say that him getting really angry mad him stronger than Goku somehow.

Yes, because Saiyans work on anger. Just like Trunks. Wow, Shocker. Its like that hasn't been a thing since forever.

>>149746110
see >>149746130

He was trained by Kaioshin, he even had the Z-Sword in the manga

>>149746088
What about Demon Gods then hmmmmmmm?

>>149746130
He trained with the Supreme Kai and Kibito who never displayed any knowledge of how to perform a Spirit Bomb. He didn't train with King Kai.

>>149746143
Except before Super it was always explained, either by a transformation or Gohan having "potential".

In Super you just get really angry and your power skyrockets.

>>149746100
Fuck off or prove me wrong.
>>149746102
Gods are allowed to end mortal life, what he did was not wrong. He was giving divine punishment because Trunks broke a taboo. Now that I think about it, yours make sense because Kioshin are supposed to observe humans and create life, not kill, so you win.
>>149746112
lawful chaotic good if we going to take it up a level.
>>149746158
Demons are not gods dummy.

>>149746163
It doesn't look like he did it on purpose anyway.

>>149746163
Just because they never displayed the knowledge, it doesn't mean they didn't know about it.
Hell if a King Kai knew about it, why wouldn't a Supreme Kai?

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>>149746176
ZAMASU!

>>149746176
>demons are not gods
Preeeeeeetty sure there are Kai equivalents in the Demon Realm? I'm not 100% on that but I'm going to have a look.

>>149746176
>Gods are allowed to end mortal life, what he did was not wrong. He was giving divine punishment because Trunks broke a taboo. Now that I think about it, yours make sense because Kioshin are supposed to observe humans and create life, not kill, so you win.

Yes, when he killed that ningen dinosaur caveman he got a taste of evil and liked it.

>>149746092
Gohan was established to hit bullshit tiers of strength thanks to rage from the beginning of Z. The only time any other saiyan got a power up from rage was Super Saiyan.

BoG just tosses Vegeta one because it's BoG.

And Trunks's Earth is nowhere near in as good a condition as the Earth during the Kid Buu fight.

>>149741414
>actually defending shitty writing
Kill yourself.

>>149746163
The lack of even a hint is pretty weak, but at the same time it kind of make the whole scene even more exciting.
I wonder if I would have been more or less excited when Goku went SSJ for the first time, if there had been no hint that saiyans could become "special" beforehand.

>>149746202
Could be considered "lesser" move? I mean a supreme kai doesn't know everything kais know.

As the supreme kais rule over other kais, they probably don't need to know or even care about a move that asks mortal people's spirit power. They are afterall, above the mortal in power.

>>149741247
they had to nerf him since he's too broken
but yeah if had to defuse in the episode they should have gone with the shitty dance

>>149746170
You mean like how Goku got really angry and achieved SSJ?

Or how Vegeta got so pissed he was weaker than Goku that he achieved SSJ?

How about that time Trunks got angry when Gohan died and achieved SSJ?

Oooh, or what about the time Krillin fought a Saibaman after his friends started getting their asses kicked?

Or that time Vegeta flipped out against Cell after Trunks was killed and is the only reason Gohan was able to kill him?

Or the entirety of Super Buu's power and rage boosts?

>>149746235
Yeah there are

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Makaioshin

Fruit people born with evil hearts are sent to the Demon Realm of each universe

>>149746281
>You mean like how Goku got really angry and achieved SSJ?
But there were a lot of references to a "special saiyan" before that happened.

>>149744262
He did get stronger, but it was never really implied that he was as strong as SSB Vegito. The spiritbomb sword was made of spirit bomb energy that came from the humans/living things left in the planet and Goku and Vegeta which is effective against evil and IIRC the more evil the more effective. Also despite the bitching and moaning by some anons Vegeto did damage fused zamasu greatly since him falling apart. He did get boosts, but we can chuck that to the zenkai boost/haf human half saiyan hybrids which are supposed to have better potential than saiyans themselves, but not to the level you mentioned.

>>149746202
>I have no proof they knew it but they totally did, I swear.
And Goku taught everyone Kaioken and Instant Transmission but they just don't use them because they all made a super secret agreement not to off screen!

>>149746252
Kid Buu also didn't have 3 God Tier beings giving their energy into a Spirit Bomb either. Vegeta's energy alone is enough to dwarf Goku Timeline's Earth in its entirety, let alone Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks.

>>149746281
Do you not understand the difference between a transformation and "just because he got angry"?

I'll give you the Krillin one.

>>149741641
And both Goku and Vegeta could throw Zamasu around like a doll.
The difference between Black and Zamasu is staggering.

>>149746289
Remember a few chapters after that how there were now two special Saiyans and Frieza was killed in one blow?

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Every time they sell DBS merch they disregard Vegeta, but Mai is there so get.

>>149746306
Gohan at the end of the Buu Saga was in a completely different league than Kid Buu and Super Saiyan 3 Goku and yet his energy wasn't enough for the Spirit Bomb to completely wipe out Kid Buu. Your point?

>>149746282
Ahah I thought so. So gods can be evil.

>>149746308
And Trunks got a transformation through rage. Like pretty much every other SSJ transformation barring SSJG and SSJB.

>>149745913
>Based Gowasu knows his shit
Gowasu has the advantage of retcons on his side.
The time limit on the Potara is shit writing through and through, and it completely shits on Goku persuading Vegeta to finally accept to the fusion in Z.

>>149746324
I'm not gonna disagree that it went seriously to shit when SSJ turned into a trivial thing.

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>>149746220
Zamasu was best god, I will miss him.
>>149746235
demons are opposites of angels.
>>149746241
God are allowed to kill. He was never punished for it. He did no evil.

>>149746336
Who the fuck decided that fruit people are gods anyway?
Like, what dictates that they are more special than all the other species in the multiverse?

>>149745913
If Gowasu was so smart why can't he argue against Zamasu's bullshit justice?

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Had the chance to meet this wonderful man during comic con.
LIke the little autist that I am I asked him what was canon. he said that both anime and manga were canon but that he focuses more on the elements from the manga then the anime. Too bad this episode came so laye because I got tons of new questions to ask him.
Any other people fortunate enough to meet him? His english is quiet good.

>>149746334
Gohan was not in a completely different league than SSJ3 Goku or Kid Buu. He was around their level.

Even then, everyone in that Spirit Bomb against Kid Buu might be on Super Vegeta's level. Now lets add Super Goku into that mix. Now lets add an entire planet (Remember, the Spirit Bomb doesn't just take from people but literally everything on the planet), and Super Trunks', you also have Gowasu and Supreme Kai as well.

Wow, that's a lot of fucking energy. Way more than the one against Kid Buu had, the majority of the population dead or not.

>>149746358
Well the fruit people are the race that look exactly like Zamasu and Supreme Kai and such soooooo I guess Toriyama did?

>>149746358

lifespan in the tens of thousands and apparently the power of creation?

>>149746358
Zen-chan willed it

>>149746377
>he was around their level
Which is why when Goku and Vegeta are in Buu's body, he shits his pants at the prospect of fighting standard old Super Buu with Vegeta's help. The same Super Buu that Gohan made look like a complete joke.

>>149746370
Of all the questions you could have asked you ask this bullshit?
Jesus christ I wish I wasnt such a neet.

>>149746370
>that resolution
>them pixels
Heh? Cool though.

If anything, this episode made me want to never see a fusion ever again.

>>149746412
She looks like a spic probably some shitty phone cam

Vegito was such a jobber. All the hype last week made me laugh at all the people crying about how Vegito wasn't strong as the hype. KEK.

Vegito was always same as Gogeta in strength, only advantage was the perma state. Now that's reduced to "1 hour", aka 1 minute.

Vegitofags got BTFO hard.

>>149746281
>How about that time Trunks got angry when Gohan died and achieved SSJ?
Trunks could turn Super Saiyan way before Gohan died.
Shows what you know.

>>149746370
Did you ask him why toryiama is such a hack?

>>149746450
>aka 1 minute.

you know if you keep posting this over and over it won't mean it's true

>>149746450
he was not, super just fucked up his strength just like everything else from the old series it touches

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>>149746358
Don't you dare question my decisions

>>149746329
normal Zamasu and Mai look alright. The rest are shit.

>>149746466
>super is not canon
kek

>>149746495
Super is fanfic deal with it.

>>149746495
Anon didn't say that though.
And I really hope you don't think Super has good writing.

>>149746495
where did I say that, retard?
all I'm saying is that it retcons a bunch of shit from Z

>>149746370
Where the fuck was that?
Bandai? I saw him but he was promoting xv2.

>>149746466
He was still strong you nigger, however strenght doesn't do much against someone who's literally half-immortal

>>149746504
It does actually, Zamasu was a pretty good villain and also this >>149745295

>>149746450
>two SSj Blues, one who was stronger than Black, combine
>have issues with Black combined with a Kaioshin that's SSj2 tier at best
Super is absolutely fucking retarded

>trunks killed freezer, cell, dabura, babidi, boo, the androids and zamasu

nice mary sue you got there

>>149746523
being immortal is irrelevant, he lost in a power struggle against zamasu

>>149746527
>issues

lol

he was knocking him around, lost a test of strength (no he didn't take a dive, vegettofags), and knocked him around some more

not to mention he pushed back the blast that it took a father son galick gun/kamehameha to stop with one hand

>>149746143
They never did though. Vegeta could get as mad as he wanted and still get his shit pushed in. Only Gohan works on anger

>>149746527
>>149746532
But he didn't, he was pretty much overpowering him
Watch the episode again you dumb ningens

>>149746531
Holy shit, you're right. He took out the entire DBZ villain line-up by himself. He even killed a pseudo immortal god with zenkais.

>>149746501
>fanfic
>from the original creator

And before you start posting links to interviews and so on, they all confirm that at the very least, he has oversight on what happens.

>>149746523
>retconning the Potara so Trunks can save the day isn't bad writing
I guess the time limit just came up coincidentally when Vegito lowered his ki barrier inside Buu, then :^)
I'd even be fine with them explaining the time limit existing because Vegeta and Goku used the Potara once before, but no, it's because they're mortals.

do you think we'll ever see Vegito again?

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>>149746370
Nice try faggot but there is a thing called google reverse search.

Super is fanfic deal with it.

>>149746546
>Only Gohan works on anger

Yes, because he's a hybrid.
You know who else is a hybrid? Trunks.
You just solved your own ''issue'', good job.

>>149746531
>freezer

obvious spic is obvious

>>149746565
kek btfo

>>149746547
try following your own advice and watching the part where he punches Vegetto again
>he was just pretending so he could hit Zamasu with his sword which did no damage whatsoever!
no matter how you spin it Vegetto's fight was pathetic, especially after Goku wrecked half of Zamasu on his own

>>149746546
How did Goku get SSJ?

>>149746583
>>>he was just pretending so he could hit Zamasu with his sword which did no damage whatsoever!

but he was, have you forgotten how much Vegito likes to fool around?

>>149746565
How did you do? I reversed searched >>149746370 couldnt find shit and fell for the bait.
Teach me senpai

>>149746566
You know who's never shown getting stupid tier power ups based on rage? Every other hybrid that isn't Gohan.
Your point?

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>>149746562

>>149746601
he did it against Buu to get Buu to absorb him
when he was fighting Zamasu there was no reason not to kill him right away if possible

>>149746583
you can watch the part where he pushed back the blast that took everything the 3 of them had with one hand, his superiority was shown right there

>watch new episode
>transformation felt underwhelming
>zamasu dying felt underwhelming and bullshit
Honestly don't know how people appreciate this episode

>>149746608
>Teach me senpai
Get a brain but thats too much asked of people who enjoy a shitshow like dragonball super.

>>149746585
by not asspulling it

>>149746621
Good music, decent animation, good voice-acting and the magical power of subjective taste

>>149746644
>things that dont exists in super

>>149746611
>Every other hybrid that isn't Gohan

So just Goten and Kid Trunks?

>>149746585
Pure heart and anger. Still that was a transformation and had lots of foreshadowing.

The problem with Super is that you could make things work by showing them rather than having /a/ shitpost some "maybe Trunks learned Genkidama offscreen lol"

>>149746660
>The problem with Super is that you could make things work by showing them

Now that is the only issue I have with the anime's writing, but it's understandable as they have to meet a weekly deadline
Good thing there's also the manga

>>149746658
And teen Trunks too until DBS.
Why did Goku say only Gohan could defeat Cell with anger if Trunks could do it too?

>>149746658
Prior to this arc that would also include Future Trunks. He just now ripped one out of his asshole because it's Super

>>149746660
Yeah I wasn't arguing about the asspull, just saying Goku transformed by getting angry so it's not really new. The only difference is that there were lots of hints that something could happen.

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>>149742549
gotenks mortal magic isn't effected by anti-kaioshin magic
bibidi did make buu to kill the kaioshins after all

>>149746698
So this proves that hybrids have more potential, something that was actually enstablished in DBZ.
So this doesn't even retcon DBZ and it actually respects its enstablished lore.

Your issues? They just got hakai'd.

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>>149742549
notice that he went as a ssj3 and stayed fused for 30 minutes, its obvious that buu magic boosts dance fusion but defuses potara, even retard would notice

>>149746711
>bibidi did make buu to kill the kaioshins after all
Wrong. Buu is a primordial being, Bibidi summoned him forth.

>>149746719
Gohan is the sole hybrid prior who consistently got stupidly ridiculous power ups based on rage.

Congratulations, you proved nothing other than Trunks ripped a power up out of nowhere since he's never done rage outs like Gohan

>>149746681
Trunks being able to get a huge poerr up by anger is bullshit so was that scene with vegeta against beerus. another stupid retcon of toryiama's part that sayians get fueled by anger.
Gohan was the only one in the original manga who got a huge power boost by going berserk. Where was trunks power boost when gohan died?(in the manga he already was ssj) Where was vegeta power boost when trunks died.
Heck even in super trunks didnt got a power boost when his mother died in front of him but turn into maximum over sayian once zamasu calls him ningen.
Quality writing.

>>149746745
Why?
Because "magic?"

>>149746750
wrong

that was a retcon stated years after the manga ended and series in fact

>>149742484

Which made no sense. Piccolo and Gotenks were fusions too.

>>149746765
Buu is pretty much magic, yes.

So now that Fusion dance is superior to Potara, what's stoping them from doing the dance again?

This is all toei's content

Toriyama introduced the db's unfusing kibitoshin so he could use it for vegetto in this arc

there was no point to them unfusing kibitoshin otherwise, toei really are retards

>>149746765
it doesnt matter why, all that matter is that buu magic does affect fusions

>>149746785
Piccolo wasn't a fusion, Piccolo had assimilated Nail and Kami.
It's a completely different process unique to Namekians.