3x3

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3/3

Don't really care about this season, though Keijo is a noteworthy show.

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Flip Flappers is alright so far

>>149424834
Flip Flappers is AOTS quite easily.

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Have not watched anything from this season yet

>>149424834
0/0
>>149425121
7.5/8

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>>149424834
8/8

>>149425232
Really good, man. I have to admit that's better than my 3x3.

Cave Story = Touhou > Yume Nikki though

If your 3x3 doesn't have at least one Miyazaki film it is trash.

>>149425121
>unironically liking Keijo
Shit taste.

>>149425333
>implying liking Keijo can be anything but unironical

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>>149424834
6.5/7
>>149425121
4/9 TV
>>149425160
4.5/9
>>149425232
what the fuck

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I'm only watching Flip Flappers.

>>149424834
1/1
>>149425121
6/7
>>149425132
0/0 but looks good
>>149425160
5/6
>>149425232
2/2
>>149425450
4/6

>>149425722
I'm sure you have seen some of
>0/0 but looks good
He just picks images focusing far too much on aesthetic and not enough on being able to identify the work if you have actually seen it.

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>>149424834
>What are your favourite shows so far this season?
Natsume, of course. Time Bokan is really fun too.
Nyanbo is nice.

>>149425121
2/3 -Aria anime
4/4 OVA
4/4 Movie

>>149425132
3/3

>>149425160
5/5

>>149425450
5/5

>>149425722
4/5
-Penguindrum

>>149425330
I've watched almost all of the Ghibli films (Princess Mononoke being one of them I haven't seen) and the only ones that really stuck out to me with the ones that didn't have Ghibli sameface.

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>>149424834 3-gatsu no Lion seems to be nice. I like it and Keijo is pretty entertaining.

>>149425450
>All these KyouAnus bullshit

>>149425933
Two of the best anime franchise films of all time, maybe the best looking TV anime of all time, and a beautiful affirmation of life.

>>149425995
>And I have shit taste

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>>149425933
this better?

>>149425822
>liking KyoAni sameface
>not liking Ghibli sameface

>>149426035
Maybe you just shouldn't be watching anime. What's wrong with KyoAni pal?

>>149425995
the best? hardly
even kyonanus best is average

>>149425311
I might have included touhou, but I don't think there is any part of touhou that I like THAT strongly, I just like it as an overwhelming cultural phenomenon. I also really do like Cave Story, maybe my second favorite video game. The first would be Yume Nikki, the only one where i've had any meaningful emotional reaction towards.

>>149426149
How can you not at least like disappearance? And at least an appreciation to how interesting and experimental Love Story is as a project.

>>149426231
>How can you not at least like disappearance?
Not him, but all Haruhi are trash in my books including Disappearance.

>>149425995
I love Brilliant Park too.

>>149426077
Kyoani's character designs are pretty similar, but always different enough to be discernible.

With Ghibli you need other identifiers such as the clothes they wear or the setting they are in to know which movie they are from.

>>149426231
Some people decide what to like based on memes. You know not to take someone seriously when they use the term KyoAnus.

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I'm only watching Flip Flap and Hibikek.

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>>149424834
1/1
>>149425121
2/2 TV.
>>149425132
1/1
>>149425160
3/6
>>149425450
5/5
>>149425722
5/5
>>149425822
5/6

>>149424834
Are you my aunt?

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>>149424834
I still need to watch more of these
4/4
>>149425121
6/8
>>149425132
7.5/8
>>149425160
8.5/9
>>149425232
6/7
>>149425450
8.5/9
>>149425722
6/6
>>149425822
6/7
>>149426428
8/8
I just finished Kyousou Giga. I really liked it.
>>149426466
6/6

>>149427537
Names of middle center and top left?

>>149427537
Wow, anon. I wish I enjoyed as much stuff as you do. I'd never run out of stuff to check or constantly drop stuff.

>>149427829
Middle middle is ZZ gundam and TL is Heartcatch PreCure

Hibike concert was good but the arc before it was just stupid.
To Be Hero is surprisingly decent, Flip Flop is just mediocre, I wasn't that excited about it but it is still disappointing. Gakuen Handsome is the only masterpiece this season.

>>149427876
I can sit through pretty much anything; even if an anime isn't particularly good. You just need to step it up.

>>149426231
In what way is Love Story experimental exactly?

>>149426428
6/7 Where is the fish from?

>>149426466
5/7
What shows are the stars and the kanji supposed to be?

>>149427537
2/3

>>149429143
Yamada's shots are insane, are you serious?

>>149429249
Really? They didn't leave a big enough impact on me to remember any. Do you have one of these ,how much value do you put into visual direction, grids for the movie by any chance? Or alternatively a webm or two.

>>149429483
I don't have one, I might make one. If I end of doing it i'll post it in the next 3x3 thread

>>149426231
if love story is considered experimenal I don't want to know what Kaiba or Mononoke or Gankutsuo were since those were ACTUALLY experimental. Maybe it's experimental by kyoani standards but not by much else.

>>149429649
what, how is gankutsuo more experimental than love story? Gankutsuo is always shot extremely standardly

>>149429718
Unorthodox art-style automatically equates to an experimental show, duh.

>>149429718
I don't remember anything special about love story's camera other than way too many long shots or random shots of hallways.

>>149429649
>>149429718
I think what is missing here is context, in terms of anime using the kinds of techniques Yamada has been using in her works recently is quite experimental and bleeding edge. In terms of film making more generally it isn't really all that experimental at all.

>>149429965
How the camera would linger was always so fascinating though, what Yamada chooses to focus on.
>>149429995
But it's important to remember that Love Story is a franchise film, and the stated demographic Yamada gave for Love Story, it's amazing that it happened.

>>149429995
>using film techniques in film is experimental because animu
>bleeding edge
I don't think you understand what those words mean.

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>>149426428
5/6... or 4/6... still not sure where to count mid right. It was kind of lackluster, but it didn't really leave me with negative emotions.

>>149426042
I should watch Natsume finally. But yeah, it'd be hypocritical of me to complain towards this one.

>>149425822
Two of these were literally disgusting, and your taste in girls is bad.

>>149425722
I like you. Though the most I can say about Penguindrum is that it's the best work of its creator.

>>149425450
Two literally disgusting and one overhyped.

>>149425160
>Yotsugi
instant 10/10

>>149425121
Sigh, my memory is too good. I stopped grading you years ago because I'd done so too many times.

>>149429995
That's like saying "Pacific Rim is ultra-experimental because it does stuff very few Hollywood films do". Bitch please, giving up all the strong points of anime as a medium and instead striving to make it more like classical cinematography is the OPPOSITE of "experimental and bleeding edge".

>>149430315
I want to note: I'm not implying Pacific Rim is bad. Heck, most of the current Hollywood production is bad, Pacific Rim is a rare good film. But it's not "experimental", it's just a gulp of sanity in that industry.

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>>149424834

>>149430216
>using film techniques in film is experimental because animu
That is exactly what I am saying. Experimental in the context of anime, not so experimental in the context of film more widely. Treating the "camera" like a camera to such an extent has never been attempted before in anime, weird art direction has been a thing that has existed since as far back as the 1960s in "mainstream" anime studios with things like Tales of a Streetcorner or the Animerama trilogy from Mushi Pro.

>>149430445
You should probably stop posting, as each reply makes you look more ignorant.

>>149430508
Great point.

>>149430315
>Two of these were literally disgusting, and your taste in girls is bad.
Don't leave me hangin', which ones didn't you like?
Also fuck you those are all best girls, including Shirokuma and Ginko
>Pacific Rim is a rare good film
I bet you liked The Force Awakens too you faggot

>>149430315
>giving up all the strong points of anime as a medium and instead striving to make it more like classical cinematography is the OPPOSITE of "experimental and bleeding edge".

That seems contradictory. Sticking to things anime has done over and over "the strong points of anime as a medium" would be the opposite of experimental.

Applying new techniques however would certainly be experimental in the context of the medium. By the way you shouldn't conflate calling something experimental with saying it is good or even valuable.

>>149430594
Nope. But I do like Watashi ga Motete Dousunda, which is basically the same.

I'm bad with names. The moralfaggotry about countryside and Traditional Values TM and the Kyoani shit to its left.

Though I must admit, Ginko really is the best girl in his anime, I oversaid this.

>>149430508
He's right though. I don't think TLS is all that out-there or anything though, it's more about the fidelity with which it was attempted rather than it being a new idea for animation (treating it like live-action, I mean). But crazy colors and non-generic character designs aren't any more experimental.

>>149429143
>What shows are the stars and the kanji supposed to be?
Usagi and Joshiraku.

>>149430723
I'm more willing to say that in the big picture the typical animation that's done a thousand times is more "experimental" than what Yamada does, because anime as a whole is a pretty niche thing with small output when compared to the global film production.

In the context of the medium these techniques always existed, and people always depended on them. What's making you lose the big picture is how nobody had the budget to actually pull them off in their entirety, all the time. Or, if he HAD the budget, he always decided to do something that only anime can do, to use the strong points of the medium and do something truly different from everything else that existed. This decision to forget anime has a wider range of capabilities than classical filmography and to pour the budget in what everybody else is doing anyway is just showing off the muscles of the production studio. It doesn't show creativity, it doesn't experiment, it's just a way of degrading anime to an industry: you can produce a reliable "high-quality" product on demand, instead of making a gamble with something experimental.

>>149425132

Market or Love Story?

>>149431183
>In the context of the medium these techniques always existed, and people always depended on them.
That isn't true at all. Nobody has attempted to treat a camera like a camera to such an extent before in anime. It simply wouldn't have been possible. A lot of it is only possible to do convincingly because of technological development, digitization and improvements in compositing technologies.
>what everybody else is doing
Nobody else is doing this in anime though.
>it doesn't show creativity, it doesn't experiment
It isn't particularly creative, but it certainly is experimental in anime to do this.
>it's just a way of degrading anime to an industry
Thats ridiculous it seems like you just have some preconceived notion of what anime should be and as this doesn't conform to that are rejecting it of anything you think bestows it with value. I already told you that you shouldn't conflate saying something is experimental with saying it is good or valuable.
>you can produce a reliable "high-quality" product on demand, instead of making a gamble with something experimental.
KyoAni had done that for years before introducing these kinds of techniques though. It's something new to them and the industry. There wasn't much of it in K-On! or Tamako Market even as shows for example.

>>149431183
What you don't understand is that the same technique in anime and in live action can convey extremely different things, being in anime does make it infinitely different, and so yes it is only some thing anime can do in that way for that effect

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>>149424834
3/3
>>149425121
6/7
>>149425132
3/3
>>149425160
8/9
>>149425450
4/6
>>149425722
8/9
>>149425822
4/4
>>149426428
8/9
>>149426466
5/5
>>149427537
3/4
>>149430315
2/3

>>149431487
>Nobody has attempted to treat a camera like a camera to such an extent before in anime.
By "to such an extent" you mean "nobody had the money to do the whole series like that, and reserved it for short sequences"?
>It isn't particularly creative, but it certainly is experimental in anime to do this.
It doesn't experiment the slightest, it does the formulaic, just with more budget.
>KyoAni had done that for years before introducing these kinds of techniques though.
And yet Nichijou flopped.
The last few years they are in their comfort zone of producing "high-quality" shows with nothing going for them but the animation. They are visually decidedly the most run-of-the-mill, just with emulating classical cinematography they manage to stand out. People will get tired of it eventually.

>What you don't understand is that the same technique in anime and in live action can convey extremely different things
I completely disagree. If your mind reacts to it in different ways, you are consciously filtering one of them as "THIS IS AN ANIME, IMAGINE ALL THE BUCKS THAT THEY NEEDED". I personally don't care much.

>>149430315
>Though the most I can say about Penguindrum is that it's the best work of its creator.

Glad we at least agree on that. And I can see why you wouldn't like it as much, some parts are not that good.
Also Ringo was a mistake.

>>149431763
>I completely disagree
Well then you'd be wrong.

Animation shots are composed of drawings, while film shots are composed of captured reality. That little difference changes absolutely everything about everything, from the production process to what the film-makers value and prioritize, to the reactions a viewer can have to things.

A bog-standard landscape shot in live-action can be called boring, but a bog-standard shot containing a superb piece of art is remarkable in animation. A close-up of a character reacting to something is the bread and butter of live-action, but the same thing featuring high-grade acting animation is exceptional. And so on.
Takahata has commented on this in the past, and how animation focusing on certain can make people more aware of them than live-action would because it's taken for granted there.

>>149431763
>nobody had the money to do the whole series like that, and reserved it for short sequences
No I don't mean that at all. It has nothing to do with budget, it is to do with creative decisions and technological advancement to allow it.
>it does the formulaic, just with more budget.
There's nothing formulaic about it there is no other anime that looks the same.
>And yet Nichijou flopped.
What does that have to do with anything?
>The last few years they are in their comfort zone of producing "high-quality" shows with nothing going for them but the animation.
True they haven't made anything particularly great in my opinion in terms of TV anime since Hyouka.
>run-of-the-mill
>manage to stand out
You just contradicted yourself immediately.
>you are consciously filtering one of them as "THIS IS AN ANIME, IMAGINE ALL THE BUCKS THAT THEY NEEDED"
This wasn't my point but that's not true either. You expect the direction and visual presentation to be a certain way in anime, playing with those expectations produces a different reaction and feeling than you would otherwise get, just like changing an art style does for example, meaning the fact that it is anime itself changes the effect of using a live action style. It changes the texture and tone of what is being presented.

>>149431763
>I completely disagree. If your mind reacts to it in different ways, you are consciously filtering one of them as "THIS IS AN ANIME, IMAGINE ALL THE BUCKS THAT THEY NEEDED". I personally don't care much.
if you see the same thing in photography and in painting it conveys fundamentally different feelings

Why are you guys arguing about pretty colors? Pretty colors have never had any impact on the quality of a show. You can be Guilty Crown as long as you want but the high visual quality will never excuse the poor writing and stereotypical characters.

>>149432256
Nobodies talking about colors fuckwit.

>>149424834
Flip Flappers is by far my personal favourite, i still hope that drifters gets good soon.

>>149432256
>form doesn't matter in art

>>149432256
If you aren't intelligent enough then it'd be better for everyone that you stay quiet.

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>>149431749
5/7
Cool Erin mention.

>>149427537
2/2

>>149426466
1/4
What's bottom left? Mushishi?

>>149426428
3/3

>>149431278
Love Story of course.

>>149432089
>No
>True
Wow you contradicted yourself what a dumbass

>>149432424
>What's bottom left? Mushishi?
Yes.
3/8 and I have a feeling that if I actually bothered to waste my time with fantastic children it would be a 3/9.

>>149432624
No I didn't contradict myself. I said it was true they hadn't made a good show but not true that I meant... "nobody had the money to do the whole series like that". The other poster on the other hand contradicted himself by in the same sentence saying the visual style we are discussing is run of the mill yet stands out. Something doesn't stand out for being run of the mill it stands out for being different.

>>149432059
>while film shots are composed of captured reality
Completely wrong.
Funny thing is, just a few hours ago I attended a lecture on how photography is used as a venue for hyper-realism and surrealism. We accept photography as an accurate representation of reality, but it's not. It's typically used to "lie" in some way to the viewer. The same line of thought applies to the movie camera as well.

>That little difference changes absolutely everything about everything, from the production process to what the film-makers value and prioritize,
Yes, it does change these. Different techniques are the cheap, cost-saving ones. But animation has a much wider range of possibilities.
>to the reactions a viewer can have to things.
Try the "same" technique, but with out-of-the-world colors. Then the viewer will have an entirely different reaction. But abiding to the camera movement and to the typical palettes used in cinematography? The human mind lies to itself, so as long as the composition and the colors are the same, baring external circumstances it doesn't really make a difference.

>A bog-standard landscape shot in live-action can be called boring, but a bog-standard shot containing a superb piece of art is remarkable in animation.
Nah, you're missing the point.
A bog-standard landscape shot in live-action can be superb art piece too. Because the camera has the capabilities to make something even more real than actual reality.
A bog-standard landscape shot in animation has much easier time becoming more real than actual reality, because that's what art does the best. However, keeping to classical cinematography as a toolset in animation LIMITS you, because animation can do this landscape shot waaay better by heavily distorting reality, by introducing colors that shouldn't be there and so on. And yet such a distorted shot will still achieve being "more real than reality itself". It will just be better at that than simple keeping to cinematography techniques.

>>149432757
Maybe you will learn English one day if you start reading instead of writing dumb shit when you can't understand what people are saying.

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>>149424834
6/6
>>149425121
8/8
>>149425160
7/8 -Yuri
>>149425232
5/6 -Eva
>>149425722
6/7 -Eva
>>149425822
6/8 K-on, Tamako
>>149426466
6/8 -Sora, K-on
>>149427537
7/7 +Yukino, +Ramu
>>149430315
6/7 -Hidamari
>>149431749
11/13 -Sora, +Casshern, +Kino

>>149432424
Are you a girl?

>>149429249
She's good, doesn't come across as experimental though.

>>149432289
>>149432398
>>149432403
>defending guilty crown
what the fuck kind of autistic thread have I entered?

>>149432783
>We accept photography as an accurate representation of reality, but it's not
It is. "Accurate" doesn't mean "equivalent", that's why I called it captured reality.

A drawing, on the other hand, is 100% a product of the mind. It works based on what the human who drew it wants to achieve, while photography is nature working mechanically with no human intervention other than creating the device used to capture light. A water reflection isn't a 100% accurate representation of the actual thing either, that's irrelevant because it is still captured reality by way of light. Completely different in nature from a consciously created drawing or painting.

Maybe your lecture was garbage or you didn't understand it.

>>149432950
name one anime that uses the same techniques outside of her own TV anime and movies

>>149432783
I don't think he is missing the point, it takes a lot more skill and effort to convey something like a well acted piece of character animation or a beautiful landscape in anime than in live action film. Just making a subtle emotion convincing on the face and in the movements of an animated character is an achievement alone. Most anime have to resort to kinds of supplementary symbolic recognised visual language to convey emotions.

>>149432869
Great point. You really told me there. Perhaps you should express yourself more clearly if your meaning was not conveyed as you intended.

>They are visually decidedly the most run-of-the-mill, just with emulating classical cinematography they manage to stand out

So they manage to stand out amongst all other anime yet its run of the mill? If you are saying the techniques themselves are run of the mill in wider film then yes I have been saying that sine the beginning. That doesn't change the fact that it is new and experimental for anime to take it that far in reproducing camera like texture.

>>149433154
so if a japanese rips off mclaren and does direct animation it's suddenly experimental?

>>149433246
Do you think Japanese people haven't already done that?

>>149433246
Fine, name any piece of animation.

>>149433297
i know they did

>>149433154
Which techniques, specifically?

>>149433359
just the way she shoots, i'm not refering to actual animation techniques, but filmic.

>>149433352
Cool, no I would differentiate independent animation from mainstream anime and consider Japanese animators who work in the shorts way part of the wider world independent animation community rather than making anime and mainstream anime studios something separate. That is why I mentioned mainstream anime in quotes when I first posted here >>149430445

>>149432982
However it doesn't capture reality, it captures a spectacle specifically being played in front of the lenses. And the human behind the lenses specifically positions them as to make something or other stand out. And so on.

You can't have just a photo of starving children, you need to fabricate one in the best conditions as to make the image more real than the reality itself. You need to lie to the audience in order to maximize the effect the photo has on them. That's where award-winning photos come from; that's where popular photos come from, and so on. Heck, most selfies are a product of deliberate fabrication. There are whole guides for fat girls to make themselves look less fat. Is this "capturing reality"? Nah. It's a deliberate lie, it's hyper-realism.

A drawing does this hyper-realism better and with more ease. However, you'd be a fool to LIMIT yourself to photo-realism if you want to produce something stunning. This is basically what Yamada does. Imposes limits on what animation can do. Why? Because that can be made in an industrial product. You have the reliability of the tested methods. The point is that it's reliable, that it's the same old stuff that's worked in every film up to now. So it's the opposite of "experimental". And it does work out for them for the moment, because anime has a different set of "samey oldey stuff".

>>149433426
That's extremely vague

>>149433496
In other words, moving goalposts

>>149433580
Can't expect anime fans to actually know anything about film.

>>149433587
What? I always talking about being experimental in the context of mainstream anime and stating that in film more widely it isn't experimental at all. My position has remained exactly the same.

>>149433616
The most factual statement in this thread.

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>>149432936
Nope.

>>149433616
the directors barely understand it

>>149433616
Are you avoiding the question?

>>149433526
You seem to be conflating things like shot composition or cinematography being used to heighten the impact of a certain picture as a whole with what I'm saying, which is that the material content inside the shot (no matter how it is framed or touched-up) is captured reality. As opposed to drawings, which can also be framed delibetarely and touched up with cinematography (animation used to have cameras filming the drawings, after all).

>Yamada imposes limits on what animation can do
It's the other way around, things like that expand the boundaries of what animation can do. Do you think animation started off "live-actiony" and then the modernists broke out? Animation started off as cartooning, because it was the easiest and most simple way of creating one. All the lens effects that TLS apes had to be created from scratch, so they are the opposite of a limitation. They are human accomplishment.

You know, this is how painting used to be judged before photography made people lose interest. In terms of how well they could capture reality, how accomplished the representation was.

>>149433187
Sure, but that means you're amazed not at the animation, but at the amount of effort used to produce this animation.

This strikes me as "wow, this white canvas with one red line was sold for several million dollars and has whole books written to explain it". In my opinion art should speak for itself, disregarding any outside circumstances. Obviously in your opinion the amount of effort put in an art piece makes the art piece intrinsically better. This means we're parallel, starting from different basic assumptions about the value of art.

>>149433580
>>149433616
I think anyone can see what he means about the filmic quality of it if you watch anime enough though. The extensive use of depth of field effects, particular attention to lighting, the way the camera moves as if it were being moved by a persons hands (not shaky cam).

>>149433784
>It's the other way around, things like that expand the boundaries of what animation can do
What? Swimming in cash expands the boundaries of what animation can do?
I...
I can't argue with this. You win.

>>149433784
>animation used to have cameras filming the drawings, after all
I can't think of any reason why you would have written this other than to appear "smart" by inserting a completely random tidbit.

>>149433949
Those things are hardly unique to her though, and I don't see her usage of digital technique as particularly innovative.

>>149434132
Go ahead and name some other works that do it to the same extent in anime then if it isn't particularly unique.

>>149433855
>Obviously in your opinion the amount of effort put in an art piece makes the art piece intrinsically better
No I haven't said that at all but I think it is pretty clear that in animation it in an achievement to be able to be able to convey subtle emotion in a character where as in film that comes baked in. The majority of anime can't even make a convincing smile. Let alone some more subtle fluctuations of emotion.

>>149434128
It was prep for the cheap "animation doesn't have cinematography" snark.

>>149434176
Oshii's GITS

>>149434264
>where as in film that comes baked in
I disagree. Actors have quite the hard time portraying subtle emotions too.
Sure, but a good smile doesn't make for
1) experimental anime
and/or
2) high-budget anime
It just requires one talented key animator to put in the effort.The way in film it requires one talented actor to put in the effort.

The difference is that while a film keeps the same high-paid actor the whole film, an anime will leave the less important scenes to be done in a cost-saving way, drawn quickly while being behind schedule. So that it's cheaper. In other words, it's a question of bucks.

>>149434331
I can't recall having gotten that impression from it at all. I don't remember any shots where the depth of field shifts or anything like that? Compared to Yamada's work where it almost seems intrusive and ostentatious that kind of thing happens so often.

>>149431487
>technologies
STEM nerd, please. What matters the most in art is skill, craftsmanship, time, and patience. Technology can pick up some slack, but always comes down to the abilities of and constraints put on the artist(s)

>>149432256
>Hitler as MC is stereotypical

>>149434601
Oh, they do matter, the technologies.

The way KyoAni does reliable anime series as an industrial product would never have been possible without these technologies.

>>149434542
>I disagree. Actors have quite the hard time portraying subtle emotions too.
I mean its endogenous to the shot.
>a good smile doesn't make for
>experimental anime
I disagree, things like Akira and GiTS for example were in large part considered experimental and cutting edge in their time because they were at the forefront of a shift in animation styles away from a more representative symbolic nature towards aiming for a more realistic depiction of movement.

>>149434601
I am the first person to point out that the quality of animation itself has no bearing to technological advance but certain techniques which rely on digital compositing in order to be feasible in a commercial setting like those used to create filmic qualities in recent Yamada works are certainly made possible by technological advance. Doing the same on cells or prior to digitization would have been impossible in the anime industry with such consistency and regularity.

>>149434784
>cells
fucking autocorrect

>>149434586
Yeah, when I think of innovation in digital technique I think of IG, and the Ghost in the Shell films are landmarks in that tradition.

>>149434912
They certainly did innovate a lot in using digital techniques but I don't think they necessarily used the digital techniques for the same kinds of vision creatively speaking. They used it to create better looking anime not anime that feels like film, if you get what I mean.

>>149434969
No that's not true, Oshii deliberately was attacking the limits of animation.

>>149425121
>Kaiji
My man

>>149435135
Attacking the limits of animation doesn't mean to make something appear as if filmed through a camera though does it. You could argue Takahata did much the same in with his attempts at very realistic and grounded almost documentary style anime in things like Heidi and Akage no Anne.

>>149435217
I don't understand your point.

>>149435295
There's more than 1 way of "attacking the limits of animation"

>>149435295
The argued experimentation is in creating a feeling of anime filmed through a camera not using digital techniques, nobody would argue that KyoAni invented using digital techniques. Oshii wanting to push the limits of animation doesn't necessarily translate into wanting to make animation that appears as if filmed on a camera does it? You can push the limits of animation in so many other ways.

TLS doesn't feel like any film, it feels like indie telephoto arthouse. Which actually ties into the male character's goal in a sense. It's not random.

It also goes abstract when it feels it's appropriate. They understand that animation is animation.

>>149435408
That's true. I guess I just don't feel that wanting to create a certain feel or aesthetic could be considered experimental, on its own at least.

>>149435823
It's experimental in the sense of being a new way of making anime look and feel, in a technical sense. It's not experimental as in "out there crazy artsy shit that is off the rails".

>>149435908
Sure, I agree, I just don't see it as innovative.

>>149435908
you clearly don't know what experimental means in the context of film so why are you arguing about it?

>>149436160
I dunno I think a lot of innovation in art stems from taking influence from other spheres of art and translating them into your medium. It's not something new in film but in anime.

>>149436196
I do know what it means in the context of film hence why I limited my use of experimental to anime with regards to this instance. If I was talking about experimental film I would be thinking of someone like Stan Brakhage or Kenneth Anger.

>>149436476
I agree, I just don't see Yamada innovating in that area.

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Actual discussion in a 3x3 thread surprising.

>>149425121
decent
>>149425132
good
>>149425160
ok/decent
>>149425450
decent
>>149425722
decent
>>149425822
ok
>>149426042
decent
>>149426428
decent
>>149426466
ok/decent
>>149427537
good
>>149430315
decent/good
>>149431749
ok/decent
>>149432424
ok
>>149432882
ok

>>149437460
Awful taste.

>>149437460
Is this like a favourite characters one?

>>149437460
>Mikoto
good taste

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Occultic;Nine and Yuri on Ice are fucking amazing this season. Tons of sakuga in both (even if Yuri on Ice is having less and less of it), O;9 has an involving and super interestingly presented mystery plot, and Yuri is one of the fastest, most fun sports shows I've seen in years. The pace and tone of it weirdly reminds of 90s romcoms like Kare Kano, which you can tell by my 3x3 I love.
Flip Flappers is worth watching, but all it really has going for it is sakuga. It's characters, story, and lame attempts at symbolism and allusion are just boring. I'm just watching it for the amazing looking action sequences.
Nanbaka looks awful and has no plot, but is the kind of self-aware, 100-jokes-a-minute comedy that I love.
Watashi ga Motete Dousunda is surprisngly fun and comfy as a play on generic otome shows.
Keijo's first ep looked promising with how over-the-top and cool it was, but from then on it's just turned into a kinda generic sports show which seems especially bad when compared to how great a sports show Yuri is.
I watched the first eps of tons of other shows as well, but they were all so mediocre or just bad that I don't even remember their names.

>>149438520
sick post do you have a myanimelist I could check out?

>>149424834
Absolutely Difters.

>>149438520
>Occultic;Nine and Yuri on Ice
>sakuga
Both fell apart in terms of production especially Yuri on Ice that was a total joke for the last 3 weeks.

>>149439011
I'm behind, but episode 3 of Yuri looked great.

>>149438520
The only anime on your 3x3 as good as Flip Flappers on any level are Kill la Kill and Kare Kano.

>>149438520
Not watching Fune wo Amu? Seems pretty popular among Rakugo fans.

>>149439058
No it didn't. Even week 2 was a significant downgrade.

>>149439072
Both of those are easily above flip flappers.

>>149439133
To each their own, I guess. I thought 3 was the best looking yet.

>>149439280
No it isn't to each their own. It's objective fact. There have been more and more reused animations, poorly animated skating scenes, continuity errors, QUALITY art and unfinished parts week after week.

>>149439011
O;9 still looks great, the preview for next ep has the best animation yet.
Yuri on Ice has definitely had drops in quality, but I think in their quest to make catchy, memetic shitposts like "PRODUCTION DISASTER ON ICE" and "YURI ON QUALITY", people are completely ignoring the parts of it that still look good.

>>149439358
>O;9 still looks great
The animation is nothing special compared to the level of the first episode. Perhaps fell apart is a bit strong though.

>>149439115
I decided to just marathon it after it finished airing since it seems like the kind of slow show that's best watched all in one go, but I actually forgot about it until now. Thanks for reminding me.

>>149439337
Sure thing buddy.

>>149439448
It's true, even the OP wasn't finished when the show started.

>>149439358
>in their quest to make catchy, memetic shitposts like "PRODUCTION DISASTER ON ICE" and "YURI ON QUALITY", people are completely ignoring the parts of it that still look good.
Gotta maintain le ANN sakuga man's narrative.
Which is that Flip Flappers is a revolutionary masterpiece and Yuri on Ice is a disastrous failure which has already led the entire production team to commit suicide.

>>149439528
>Gotta maintain le ANN sakuga man's narrative.
Yuri on Ice is evident in the show itself that its has just gone down hill and everybody expected it to happen before the season even based on prescreening reports.

>>149439500
I never denied that the show might be having production problems, I just don't care and I still think episode 3 looked good. I liked the skating scenes.

>>149439608
True, but it still looks "fine", and more importantly it's not a poorly written yuri wankfest like Flip Flops.

>>149439709
>poorly written
What exactly is poorly written about it?

>>149439709
Why are you pitting those two shows against each other? Nobody else is doing that besides you. It really doesn't look fine at all.

>>149439748
Easy, everything.

>>149439774
Yes it does
>hurr no it don't

>>149439709
Not him but Flip Flappers is literally the only thing I've seen this year I could call well written. Yuri on Ice might be considered good to some but I don't buy its shameless pandering.

>>149439813
Sorry I am just giving you an objective opinion rather than a fanboy opinion. You can tell its a fanboy opinion in the way you think it is well written. It is literally nothing about typical pandering nonsense just an unusual sport for a sports anime.

>>149439780
That's not an answer, anon. If it's so easy then you should be able to do better than that.

>>149439825
The main cast is a perverted "robot", a mental retard thirsty for lesbian sex and a tsundere. If that's "good", I guess this is your first anime or your head is too far up your ass to notice.

If you used your head for a bit instead of baiting for replies without actually having any argument then maybe you'd have realized by yourself that it's just bad.

>>149439880
See the difference is that the writing is just mediocre instead of being outright bad.

>>149438639
Sorry, I forgot that /a/ hates opinions on anime and manga. From now on, I'll be sure to make my posts only about how much I hate Reddit and MAL, with plenty of buzzwords thrown in for good measure.

>>149439987
I dislike that kind of reductionist argument, I think it's stupid.

>>149439987
If you reduce things to their simplest components you can make literally anything sound superficial, good job you demonstrated nothing.

>>149440032
What? I was being sincere.

>>149439709
>Yuri on Ice
>not a poorly written
The MC is a fat loser but not when he is scatting and actually has incredible potential. Oh my just liike every other shitty empowerment fantasy.
A rival to personify MC's fears
A cute girl he'll get as a reward to personify victory
And a bullshit reason for the best athlete in the game to train the MC.

So much '''''''''''''''''great writing'''''''''''''''''' in just one episode I had to drop it.

>>149440255
Come on man, I like Flip Flappers but this post is retarded.

>The MC is a fat loser but not when he is scatting and actually has incredible potential.
No, he's not fat after they show a montage of him training to get thin for 3 months.
>Oh my just liike every other shitty empowerment fantasy.
So now it's bad to show a character who's worked his ass off for something doing well at it?
>A rival to personify MC's fears
Again, how is this bad?
>And a bullshit reason for the best athlete in the game to train the MC.
No, that best athelete recognised his potential and saw himself in him, and was at the a point in life where he wanted to pass on his skills to someone else. How is that bullshit? Literally every mentor character ever is "bullshit" if that's all it takes to qualify.

>>149440493
>So now it's bad to show a character who's worked his ass off for something doing well at it?
He's not even particularly good, he keeps failing jumps and is near the end of his career with no significant achievements after flunking multiple events including on the national level.

>>149440043
>>149440068
Feel free to come back with CONCRETE arguments proving that it does not represent accurately the depth of their characters. It's easy to describe them in a few words because they are terrible tropey, shallow characters.

>>149440783
>make claim with no real substance
>prove me wrong

How about you prove yourself right first. You are the one making claims.

>>149440851
Sorry I am just giving you an objective opinion rather than a fanboy opinion. You can tell its a fanboy opinion in the way you think it is well written. It is literally nothing about typical pandering nonsense just an unusual yuri for a yuri anime.

>>149441112
Still evading substantiating that opinion. I guess you really have no basis. Thanks for playing.

>>149441112
>an objective opinion

>>149441257
I mean what am I supposed to say? I gave my assessment of the character writing. What is there to "prove"? Your job is simple, find a counter argument. One. Prove that they aren't just pandering characters. But you can't do that, so you just go round and round arguing about the dumbest shit like you've done throughout this thread. It's a bit amusing that you claim I'm the one avoiding it though.

>>149441334
Point, example, explain.

>>149441112
ESL-kun, maybe if your post was well-written I could take your opinion on writing more seriously.

>>149441112
>>149439880
What is going on

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>>149430315
How's mine?

>>149441390
I am American. I just decided to write that post in experimental English.

>>149441472
>spitfire
Get that overrated garbage out of here.

>>149441486
I believe you.

>>149441112
>>149439880
>objective opinion

Anyone who says this is either a fucking moron, trolling, or both.

>>149441472
>p-47

Good taste.

>>149441543
Those elliptical wings are just 2sexy

>>149441334
Just in case you didn't get >>149441380

When building an argument if you are talking about something like writing - you should start from stating your claim (point), and then give evidence from the text to back up your claim (example) and then (explain) how those examples prove your claim. This is the basic technique of how you build basic arguments about things like writing, film, art and so on. By stringing these kinds of arguments together in a logical progression you can build a convincing analysis based on the text itself. This gives a basis for discussion allowing people to look at how you interpret certain sections of the text and they can then offer their differing interpretations if they disagree with your analysis.

If you don't follow this kind of structure there isn't a basis for a discussion just back and forth "I think its good, I think its bad".

>>149424834
I do not recognize the top-right one?

>>149441802
Ashita no Nadja, honorary WMT.

>>149441845
Too much tacky marketing to call it honorary WMT.

>>149441794
>robot is self insert yurifag
>lights up with le lesbian symbol
>tentacle rape in episode 1
>papika is a mental retard
>literally everything she does
>coconut is a tsundere whore
>literally spouts b-baka and other stock phrases while rubbing her cunt all over papika
>switches from hot to cold as fast as an oscillator for the first 3-4 eps
anything more than that and i'd have to actually think about the show or rewatch parts of it. but any idiot can figure out how generic the characters are, so if that's not enough for you, you might just be too delusional. in that case i'm sure you will agree in a season or two when all the idiots who think it is amazing will forget about it.

>>149442062
All you have done is pretty much just make points again, and given no examples of how that is in the show or explained how those examples support your points.
>anything more than that and i'd have to actually
What you mean is anything more than that and I would actually have to put effort into constructing a reasonable argument which isn't worth the effort on a shiposting board like this when in all likelihood you will get back a 3 word response like "lol fuk u", which I fully understand, I gave up on it long ago, arguing with people is almost always entirely pointless here.

>>149442197
>no examples of how that is in the show
How about you watch it instead of defending it?
I guess you can't understand it because you're watching it livestreamed at 240p for the SABOOGIE

>>149442256
I really don't find this kind of discussion enjoyable so lets just stop.

>>149442197
They decided to not like it, there is no point arguing with them.

You see the same people with any show that gets popular.

>>149442256
>because you're watching it livestreamed at 240p for the SABOOGIE
Wait, do you think >>149438520 and >>149442197 are the same person? We're not.

>>149442428
Yeah I was making a wider point about discussion on this board, while anonymity is a great thing in some respects because there are no consequences to your posts it encourages shitty discussion. Even if you start from a genuine position of wanting to discuss something with someone who might have opposing views the format of this site makes it inherently more difficult. I learned through repeated experience that there is no point in putting effort into making arguments because in all likelihood when you do you will just get a completely shitposting response back and even if not that you have no idea if the other person can even be bothered to go into that much depth it might just be an off hand comment which is fair enough. There are some merits to having an identity, it forces you to substantiate your claims if you want to maintain a reputation of being someone worthy of discussing things with. That being said I have never and will never post anywhere on the internet that isn't anonymous for at least the last 10 years or so. Generally on /a/ the only time you can have a good discussion about something is with someone who is a mutual fan of what you are talking about. Usually the best discussions I have had are about things that one anon besides myself loves. When there are opposing views the lack of identity and accountability makes it all too easy to retreat from bothering to make any substantial points if it takes too much mental energy or effort.

>>149443662
The problem isn't with anonymity, it's with people in general. As you said, "you have no idea if the other person can even be bothered to go into that much depth it might just be an off hand comment". Most people aren't interested in turning everything into an intellectual debate, they just wanna put their little opinion out there and read other's. It's very hard to find good discussion on places with user indentification anyway, like Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, or MAL, for this reason.

>>149443855
Maybe it is, I don't have much experience of those places in recent times, I just felt like if you have your reputation tied to a name its much harder to be completely unreasonable and you logically would either have to admit to being wrong, amicably agree to disagree or state that you cant be bothered when challenged on an opinion and save everyone the trouble. I suppose you could just ignore the response on a forum though and if you have a high post count nobody would challenge you.

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Hello friends. Only Flip Flappers, these 150 word essays are eating up all my free time.

>>149424834
3/3
>>149425121
7/8 TV
3/4 OVA
2/5 movie
>>149425160
7/9
>>149425450
2/5
>>149425722
5/7
>>149425822
3/6
>>149426428
3/5
>>149426466
3/5
>>149427537
2/3
>>149430315
0/2
>>149431749
9/10
>>149432424
2/6
>>149432882
3/5
>>149437460
ok

>>149443974
>I just felt like if you have your reputation tied to a name its much harder to be completely unreasonable
Believe me, it's not. 95% of the time, any contrast of opinion between users turns into a shitflinging contest of personal and cheap insults way worse than you ever see here on /a/. I visit other websites for anime talk because my casual as fuck friends do and I occasionally want to see what people far less informed than me think, but I always come back to /a/ for actual discussion between people that generally know what they're talking about. Even for stuff unrelated to anime, arguments on social places like Facebook and Youtube are never productive or anything more than just flinging (often unrelated to the topic at hand) insults. I think that the current culture on /a/ of making jokes about how bad we are actually undersells us quite a bit. I think a lot of anons take the highly informed, somewhat dicussive atmosphere here for granted.

>>149443662
I agree. I always assume the people that make one sentence replies or meme post like
>anime name
>good
with nothing else in them are the kind of people who are at least partially on 4chan simply because only an anonymous imageboard will tolerate them. If I could filter their IPs I would not hesitate even if it meant making half the board invisible.

I have had a few really good discussions with differing opinions here though, just never on /a/.

>>149444676
>/a/ for actual discussion between people that generally know what they're talking about
More like in /a/ it's easier to wade through the 90% of the posts that are either not discussion or made by retards, and respond to the 10% that are genuinely worthy.

It's not some magic place of wisdom. I think the edge 4chan has over other sites is not related to discussion, but content. It's more to do with its format and the culture that has developed ever since it was founded.

>>149444842
I think you are right there actually. There are enough anons that hang about who actually know what they are talking about and sometimes show it that puts this place above everywhere else just about, even if sometimes those posters cant be bothered and shitpost instead. Even just the basic cultural tenants of being a member of the community that still managed to memetically pass down through generations of posters really help to some extent. The idea that you should watch absolutely everything in a given season if you are a hardcore anime fan for example. Whilst many people might not do that it encourages people to try all things at least and broadens horizons. It is why you get difference in discussion here for shows like Flip Flappers which seems to have caught on nowhere else on the web besides here.

>>149445145
Flip Flappers got noticed because it was ripe for content, in the form of speculation, compilation images and the such. I know it was most likely an elaborate joke but that essay about the sodium vapor lamps from the first few threads really illustrates what I'm trying to say.

4chan, as an imageboard, encourages content creation. It always has. That's why this site was once the origin of all the memes, and why stuff like scanlations, fansubber groups and even stuff like the indie anime DVDs collection that got scavenged all start here.

The quality of discussions fluctuates, same as everywhere else. In those cases the individual you're talking with is more important than the site you're on.

>>149444842
Yes, and that format and culture creates a higher level of public informedness and an atmosphere where people can actually have good discussion about anime and manga.

Take for example, what I see people outside of /a/ complaining about it all the time, it's "elitism". This refers how people here expect everyone to have knowledge of the series which are talked about in individual threads, and of the anime industry overall. For example, if you are in a thread where a director is brought up and you ask who that director is, you are ridiculed for being new or casual. This is seen by outsiders as being elitist and and a negative thing, but what it forces people on the inside to do if they want to fit in is look up that director and learn their works. This increases the amount of knowledge they have and opens them up to gaining even more, making them a better participant in discussion.

>>149445462
I do not think /a/ is particularly informed or knowledgeable. Certain twitter spheres are light years ahead of this board when it comes to that.

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>>149424834
9/9

This season is shit.

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>>149444255
2/2
>>149438520
6/6
>>149437460
6/6
>>149432882
4/4

>>149445426
>Flip Flappers got noticed because it was ripe for content,
That might be why the discussion has stuck, but without the culture here being to try everything that never would have happened.

>>149445543
I don't know about that, there is plenty of anime twitter outside of the anitwitter guys and all those guys that used to follow tamerlane and a lot of those people aren't all that knowledgeable imo they just read enough to be able to namedrop and make their opinions sound important. The kind of asinine screenshot posts a lot of them do with analysis highlights that to me.

>>149445681
That should have been "analysis" not analysis by the way.

>>149444842
This about nails it. Other people I know refuse to discuss shit or even lurk here because the moment they get here they see shitposts and assume that is all there is, but after being here for years that is all just background noise to me. Then they find it baffling that I spend hours discussing shit here instead of reddit and yet any example they show me is devoid of content and lacking in discussion.

>>149424834
>daily cancerous circlejerk

>>149446228
You can join in or ignore it. These threads will still continue without you. Please fuck off if you're just here to be an attention seeking bitch.

>>149446344
Don't bully

>>149446344
>triggered

>>149443662
Shitposter here, I can form an explain my own opinions, however, I don't like going through actually typing them out, because corresponding through writing is kind of a hassle. Discussing through spoken language is simply faster and easier. Plus, as you and many others have stated, most people on 4chan, in addition to anime fans in general, are dumb, inarticulate fags with shit taste and ideas, making the relative cost of engaging them significantly higher. Thus, I won't bother with actually writing out why I, for instance, had trouble relating to what was happening in Zeta Gundam, instead of just "Fuck Tomino. Zeta is shit," because it's not really worth it

why you guys dont hang you are selfs?

>>149448434
>Discussing through spoken language is simply faster and easier
So right, I have had too many arguments on 4chan that I know in person would be resolved in literal seconds due to misunderstandings through text.
>Thus, I won't bother with actually writing out why I, for instance, had trouble relating to what was happening in Zeta Gundam, instead of just "Fuck Tomino. Zeta is shit," because it's not really worth it
It's both the problem and the cause really. Self perpetuating and I agree, I try not to shitpost but I really find it hard to effortpost too because I know 90% of the time I wont get a response that justified the effort. Either the response will be a shitpost, unreasonable or from an idiot that thinks they are discussing properly in earnest the majority of the time.

>>149448524
Don't shitpost, but don't put too much effort into a quality post for really minor points.

>>149430315
>Moetan

Patrician taste my friend

>>149426042
What is that middle one? Image search isn't giving much.

>>149450886
SZS

>>149426042
This resolution looks like shit

>>149451234
ok.

>>149448504
life is fucking awesome

golden age soon

>>149451255
Will you fix it?

>>149451339
read the post it was replying to.

>>149451367
What's your point?