Has otaku pandering killed anime? Yes.

Madhouse is objectively the best studio

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>Alita by KyoAni never

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I sure as hell can't wait for this shit thread to develop.

Somebody post that picture of that animator that's forced to draw moeshit.

>>148243624
It got better actually.

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>implying edgevania vampire gorefest isn't just a different kind of otaku pandering
Otaku's tastes have just shifted. They'll shift again; don't you worry.

source on top right

>>148243624
Self referencing killed the anime industry, leaving aside the works that are about the industry that are safe because is a theme as legit as any other theme, is painful to watch always a cosplayer or a manga artist in EVERY fucking series that has nothing to do with the anime and only serves to break the immersion. And for fucks sake stop dropping Idols into fucking everything! Jesus there are idols even medieval fantasy works or stories about farmers in the countryside.

Want to make a show about idols? Perfect want to make a show about idols that pilot robots? Perfect

But don't make an anime about powerarmors then start to put idols with insert songs each two episodes!

THIS IS THE GAY LINE
EVERYONE BELOW IT IS GAY
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>148244249
This. But I want them to change now.

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Yes

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What the fuck happened to anime?

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>>148244350
Why, are you dying of cancer and afraid you won't get to see another season? Have patience. Patience is a virtue. This too shall pass.

I wish Japan had better people writing anime.

There's like maybe 5 or 6 good, original anime a year.

Or atleast stop adapting garbage LN.

>>148244303
answer it

>>148243624
____________yes

>>148243624
But Hellsing and the Alita OVA suck.

>>148244065
Newest pic of him

>>148243624
I miss noses

BRING BACK MANIME

>>148243624

The Alita anime isn't even good

>>148245806
Manime-fags just want to see more idols doing idle things.

>>148244436
I want to believe Old Japanese patrons were like this.

>>148243624

Stupid discussion and memes have killed the fandom while anime I'd basically at a crossroads again and probably going to pick bait the fujos as it's solution even though there are several courses it could take

>>148244475

No not even that much

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>>148244475
>>148246188
News flash, Sturgeon's law applies to anime too.

>>148244445
All of this happened in the same episode.

>>148243624
Partly, but there are other factors, particularly the long-term political pressure of Soccer-mom (i.e. western) values gradually diluting what was once a very vital and original source of creativity.

>>148244350
>>148244249
>Otaku's tastes have just shifted
Actually Otaku taste is likely stable, westerners have such retarded perception because exported anime is more likely edgy ones produced in past but still, always just few anime tittles were western or casualfaggot friendly that dint change that much.

>>148243624
those shows on the right are for children, not the result of "hurr durr moeshit". I love how stupid this pic is.

>>148247887
Isnt all moeshit for children

>>148247376
that's the joke dipshit

Why won't real girls dress like Kobato?

>>148247376
OP is trolling using stale old pasta for newfaggots and casualfaggots

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Yes, because anime hasn't been pandering to otaku and children since the 70's

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>All these people watching anime and complaining about the quality instead of reading manga
If you want muh mature cartoons you should be reading manga, where authors can do pretty much do whatever they want. Anime just adapts popular shit and LN'S because that's where profit at. There always some 5 or 6 good series per year, but instead of watching all of that seasonal garbage you would be better off reading mango or watching old anime and then watching the new shit that is decent.
But I guess y'all like shitposting more than anime itself.

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>>148247672
>>values gradually diluting what was once a very vital and original source of creativity
>Meanwhile a show about girls fighting with their butts in swimsuits is airing this season
Come on anon

What if anime had shows as good as Stranger Things or GoT?

>>148250406
fuck off /tv/

>>148244055

Has there been a single decent thread on /a/ at any point this week? It seems like it's literally just 50 shitposters lurking this board now and that generate 90% of the boards posts.

>>148247811

Western fandom is utterly rock stupid is a big part of the problem. If I were a Japanese producer I wouldn't want to target them much either these days. I used to think it might be a good idea but literally what's the point with how constantly at each others throats and just completely braindead they are. At least the braindead Asian ones are consistent in their loyalties and it's possible to predict what they might do or by. If the mainstream Japanese public saw the Western fandom they'd probably never complain about NEET's and social malaise ever again.

>>148248312

>But I guess y'all like shitposting more than anime itself.

I'll believe it. And yeah manga really hasn't been affected nearly as much by all the shit that is making anime and it's fanbase a running joke. Aside from the whole brutal weekly deadlines thing which anime suffers from as well anyway nowadays the apparatus for creating these things is designed entirely differently. Anime currently has much more in common with the music industry and light novel publishing industry than video entertainment in the modern era anyway.

>Alita wasn't literally made by a super otaku

>>148248312
>>148252269
>>148252120
>>148252361

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts_m20G95Yk

Accurate representation of modern anime fandom.

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>>148243794
This. Almost every anon has at least one show in their top 10 that's made by them.
>Akagi, Kaiji, One Outs, Monster, Cardcaptor Sakura, Hajime no Ippo, Death Parade, Casshern Sins, Dennou Coil, Black Lagoon, Kaiba, Boogiepop, etc.

>>148252900

Dubs speak truth

Lodoss is my favorte show of all time

>>148252900
>death parade

Im still offended at the ending

>>148243624
>this thread again
When I'm 80 years old I'll probably log onto my government-mandated 4MALbook account and see fifty threads about how anime used to be a creative medium for sophisticated adults back in the 2050s and is now useless pandering moeshit.

>>148245879
label, if you can, every single anime in the "right now" section because none of this shit looks famliar and half of it looks like its all from the same anime

>>148243624
I don't get why americans like so much edgy stuff

>>148248312
>stick to old anime, guys, but manga is still good
>posts a 45-year-old manga
I mostly read manga, but shit like this always makes me laugh. Manga is also full of pandering and generic shit and flavor-of-the-month garbage; the main difference is that it's like twenty times bigger than anime.

>>148254980
>none of this shit looks familiar
Lurk for at least two days before posting, holy fucking shit.

>>148252900
>Death Parade
It was absolute shit though.

>>148254456
>Lodoss

OVA or TV? I was trying to get a torrent for the TV but it's seriously fucking dead. OVA was 10/10.

>>148258225

OVA

TV is a fucking mess

If you need more Lodoss you're better off watching Crystania and best off reading Lady of Pharis

>>148252900
>Akagi
>Kaiji
>Monster
>Hajime no Ippo
>Black Lagoon
>Kaiba
>Boogiepop

they made 7/10s of my list

but kobato was good anon

>>148243624
Left series all look really fucking boring.

>>148243624

I've never come across a single person that watched equal amounts of anime from both pre and post-2000 eras, that says anime has been better off in the last 7 years and today than what it was in the past.

>>148258773
That's not really a fair comparison. Current anime is easier to find and has more frequent discussion. Anyone who watches as much old stuff as new probably prefers the old stuff. I'm not disagreeing with you though.

>>148258253
Crystania's pretty bad, though. Not Nakamura's finest moment.

>>148258773
>pre and post-2000 eras
>the last 7 years
You're triggering my autism here, anon. Pick a dividing line and stick with it.

>>148243624
Nobody has ever proven even a single instance of pandering, let alone industry-wide pandering. Otaku pandering does not exist.

>>148244475
There's more original anime made than light novel adaptations.

>>148248312
"Seasonal" is not an insult or a criticism. Almost every anime on TV can be called seasonal whether it's Keijo or Cowboy Bebop. You aren't saying anything meaningful when you call a show seasonal.

>>148252269
I don't think there exists a fandom as stupid, nonsensical, dysfunctional and ignorant as the Western anime fandom. It can't even be called a fandom.

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>>148248134
Don't forget Urusei Yatsura.
One of the most popular and ecchi anime at that time.
(written by a woman btw)

>>148258876
I don't think there's a fairer judgement than that made by people open minded enough to have watched anime from all eras.
While current anime is certainly easier to find, old isn't hard to find either. I started watching old shows only 10 years ago and I've just torrented them. The Major difference is that there's much more anime produced today per year than in the past, like 10 times more. That's why recent is more discussed/fileshared.

>>148259034
Pre and post 2000 is the most used dividing line between the old (cel) and new (digital)
Post-2008/economic crisis (last 7-8 years) is the period that's the most often refereed to when people say anime went down hill.

>>148248134
The term didn't exist until 1983 and didn't become widespread until the early 90s. The anime fandom started developing in the late 70s, and it wasn't until the late 90s that late night anime started taking off (before that "otaku" anime was OVAs and movies). Cutie Honey having ecchi in it didn't have anything to do with "otaku."

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How about look for another hobby then?

>>148260041
No I have to stay here and fight the good fight until seasonal light novel harem ecchi moe pedo shounen shows stop being 99% of all anime.

>>148259706
Lum was basically Japan national waifu before Rei came

>>148243624
>hating on the spiciest mahou shojou
kys

>>148259853
>Pre and post 2000 is the most used dividing line between the old (cel) and new (digital)
>Post-2008/economic crisis (last 7-8 years) is the period that's the most often refereed to when people say anime went down hill.
You're missing the point. If you're judging anime from post-2008 vs pre-2008, then what's most relevant to having a worthwhile opinion is your exposure to anime from post-2008 vs. pre-2008, not your exposure to cel vs digital.

>>148258968

I never claimed it wasn't

I claimed it was better than Lodoss TV

>>148244445
what show?

>>148258575

>i have shit taste

well who would've guessed

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>>148243624
Shugo Chara is like the opposite of Otaku pandering and you're an idiot.

>>148260937
Hataraku Maou-sama.

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>>148243624
Fun fact: All works are geared toward someone with a target audience in mind. When someone complains about "pandering", what they always mean is "they're not pandering to ME".

>>148260725
1. The judgement of 00-08 era is implied too. It's not just about post 2008 being bad, but also about 00-08 being good. The new/old divide serves to emphasise that not all new anime periods are bad.

2. If I make it about pre vs post 2008 "watchers", that would include people who only watch new anime from 2000-2008 (those who can't watch cel anime) in the pre-2008 group, and their judgement is less relevant of course

>>148243794
Nope, bones and kyoani are. Also Pierrot is ok.

>>148261162
Thats actually a relly good point anon, I never thought of it like that.

>>148261162
thx jiggly

>>148259706
literally the entire reason why urusei yatsura was good was because of oshii

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>>148260041
Yes but anon, everybody knows knack was the first anime.

>>148261162
They have this idea that every artist in Japan is just dying to make another Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell or Ninja Scroll, and everything else they do is just some shit they reluctantly throw together to make ends meet. Once we kill the evil otaku and liberate Japan's entertainment industries the artists will be free again. Free to make nothing but space samurai cyberpunk Westerns, just like in the good old days when that's all they ever made.

>>148261732
>They have this idea that every artist in Japan is just dying to make another Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell or Ninja Scroll, and everything else they do is just some shit they reluctantly throw together to make ends meet.
I want to believe this but knowing Japan I feel like only a few Japanese directors would actually want to do something like that again.

Anime for male otaku are now dominated by shows about female protagonists and their bonds with other females. So that's a clear improvement over old macho shite.

>>148261713
>I have shit taste: the post
The only thing worse than not liking Yamazaki is not liking Rumiko.

>>148254819
>implying hillary's sjw deathsquads won't have invaded japan and abolished anime in 2017

>>148243794
not really that goes to sunrise or gainax

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Why was Fate so popular? Saber?

>>148250406
>stranger things
>good
Snoozefest for me.

shut the fuck up, filthy white pig scum

>>148261162
>this much relativism
>everything is equally valuable
Rihanna, One Direction, and Miles Davis had different target audiences in mind, that doesn't mean they should be equally respected for their effort, sincerity and talent.

Also, 'Pandering' and targeting aren't synonymous. Pandering is much more sexually charged and should be reserved for works that rely mainly on sexploitation/fan service to find their public.

>All works are geared toward someone
This is your opinion. It's not fact. There are independent directors/animators that express themselves in purely artistic and auteur works with no 'audience' in mind to cater to.

>>148262418
> Pandering is much more sexually charged
Stopped reading there, that's not what pandering fucking means.

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>>148262318
well that's because you're a faggot, and faggots don't apply to anything reasonable.

>>148262418
Pandering doesn't have anything specifically to do with sexual content, and sexual content isn't intrinsically pandering any more than anything else is.

>>148248312
>mangareader

>>148262418
>this much relativism
>everything is equally valuable
I'll take "Things no one implied" for 500, Alex. He's not even saying anything about the value of works, he's saying that the word "pandering" is relative to the speaker's perspective. And he's right, of course.

>Also, 'Pandering' and targeting aren't synonymous. Pandering is much more sexually charged and should be reserved for works that rely mainly on sexploitation/fan service to find their public.
Nope. To pander is to "gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit or a person with such a desire, etc.): newspapers are pandering to people's baser instincts." What is distasteful depends almost entirely on the person speaking.

>This is your opinion. It's not fact. There are independent directors/animators that express themselves in purely artistic and auteur works with no 'audience' in mind to cater to.
I sort of agree with you on that (except you're using "auteur" like a buzzword), but you could argue that even those are targeting people like themselves - that is, they are still crafting a work intended to be enjoyed from a certain perspective.
Even if you dismiss that, those people are still a major minority, and many of the supposed "non-pandering" types are still pandering.

>>148262485
You did the right thing, read a dictionary first.

pan·der (păn′dər)
intr.v. pan·dered, pan·der·ing, pan·ders
1. To act as a go-between or liaison in sexual intrigues; function as a procurer.
2. To cater to the lower tastes and desires of others or exploit their weaknesses: "He refused to pander to nostalgia and escapism" (New York Times).

>>148262566
>Pandering doesn't have anything specifically to do with sexual content
>anything
>>148262657

>sexual content isn't intrinsically pandering any more than anything else is
Stawman fallacy.

>>148262657
>You did the right thing, read a dictionary first.
Wait, are you implying I'm wrong, or am I misunderstanding you? Because that dictionary quote clearly says I'm right.

>>148262657
Nothing in the relevant definition mentions sexual stuff, anon. Don't tell me you've never read a dictionary before and think that both meanings function simultaneously?

>>148262708
>Pandering doesn't have anything specifically to do with sexual content
Yes, that is what I said.

>Stawman fallacy.
What is?

>>148262709
It says you were wrong in saying that it doesn't have anything to do with sexuality.

>>148262767
You just misread me. I said it's 'more sexually charged' than targetting, I didn't say it was a definition of sexual content. Can you get that nuance?
Don't tell you you're one of those who believe fan-service is only sexual.

>>148263073
>It says you were wrong in saying that it doesn't have anything to do with sexuality.
I'm not the one who said that, though. Keep track of who you're responding to. I stopped reading when you said that "fanservice is much more sexually charged," because that's untrue. And the guy who did say it only said it didn't have anything to with sexuality in specific, which that quote still backs up.

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>>148243624
>Hellsing
Drifters is literally this fucking season.

>>148254819

If whatever fanbase it has at the time is intelligible enough to even convey such a sentiment

>>148255152

There aren't many entertainment sectors in Japan that are smaller than anime these days. Take away things like Love Live and Your Name and it's kind of been a while since there's been a fresh hit that was conceived as an anime or multimedia project from the get go.

>>148263583
Girls und Panzer.

>>148262418
>everything is equally valuable
He didn't say that, but "pandering" is certainly a bit more credible when used to describe Rihanna's work than John Coltrane's

>>148262767
Are you saying that a word can't be related to its etymology?

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>>148243624
Yes, fucking 1960 Tetsuwan Atom killed anime. Damn that Tezuka, how dare he encourage people to make kawaii anime.