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Oh what a day. What a lovely day!

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Thread replies: 569
Thread images: 193

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Oh what a day.
What a lovely day!
>>
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i still think the anime wasn't nearly as bad as people were trying to make it out to be
wasn't 10/10 material either but still
>>
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Bern is cute! CUTE!
>>
>>148106177
It made Battler denying Beatrice's existence look like stupid denial rather than a heroic act of resistance. When the entire premise of a series is misportrayed, the adaptation can't really be called anything but shit. That's not even getting into shit like them inserting fanservice during death scenes or the incoherent pacing.
>>
>>148106987
ok it killed your dog we get it
>>
>>148105981
Fuck this storm. How am I supposed to look for gold on this island with all this rain outside?
>>
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I can't believe it's that time of year again
>>
>>148107187
Oh fuck I didn't even realize the date.
>>
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>>148107626
I've been waiting in anticipation since the month began
>>
>>148106177
I remember the anime having an interesting premise but nothing else.

After reading the visual novel though, I'm not entirely sure a decent anime adaptation can be made, even with a competent studio.
>>
>>148107737
agreed
they did a pretty good job all things considered
the VN doesn't loan itself well at ALL regarding its adaptability into other media
there's simply too much to adapt without having to severely cut corners
>>
>>148106177
Yeah but it just cut off huge parts of the VN and change the relation between the characters.

Anyway, long VN adaptations are often disapointing. For example, planetarian is short and its adaptation is fine.
It exactly follows the story of the VN and almost nothing is forgotten
>>
>>148108590
I imagine that Clannad was probably the most faithful VN adaptation, but the anime dragged on for too long and the ending made no sense as a result.
>>
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Don't die on me.
>>
>>148106987
>inserting fanservice during death scenes
What did you mean by this?
>>
>Umineko thread
>tfw only on 2nd chapter
I don't know if I should stay or get the hell out of here.
>>
IN FOOD THE BOMBS
>>
>>148110903
You'd best leave just in case.
>>
>>148110903
Enjoy the worst episode of the visual Novel.
Also it was all Small Bombs
>>
>>148110933
ON THE BONE MEAT
>>
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Did someone say Erika?
>>
>>148111000
>2nd was worst

Get the fuck out of here. That's chapter 8
>>
>Shroedinger will never come back
>>
>>148110903
Get the fuck out now, dummy. You'll get spilled really badly. For example Yasu is Beatrice, Shannon and Kanon
>>
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>>148111025
ERIKA
RIKA
IKA
KA
A
>>
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>>148111025
Nobody did, but I like the way you think.
>>
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SHUT THE FUCK UP AND POST HIGURASHI
>>
>>148106177
Great character design
>>
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>>148111114
Rena a best.
Fight me Rika Fags.
>>
>>148110891
Probably panty shot or some shit like that. Happens sometimes.
>>
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>>148111218
>not Mion
Shit taste, cos
>>
>>148111114
would you say higurashi better, worse, or just different than umineko
>>
>>148111218
>>148111309
RenaXKeichii was the end game. Sorry Mionfags, but cheap tomboyish clones aren't attractive.
>>
>>148111309
Are you talking about the Mion Shion, or the Shion Mion?
>>
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>>148111218
Kisama!
>>
>>148111415
>imfuckingply
The only things Keiichi loved was himself and baseball
>>148111418
You're trying to trick me, aren't you
>>
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>>148111415
Keichii x Mion is canon.
Rena ends up with me!
>>
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>>148111449
>>
>>148111840
I thought she was the blue flame. Calm and collected.

Here she's just berserk.
>>
>>148111888
its brain parasites i dont gotta explain shit
>>
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>>148105981
Posting best Seacat.
>>
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What do you think about this guy?
>>
>>148112106
I'm still reading, but so far a huge faggot for some reason
>>
>>148112106
He's a fat bastard with a strong love for men
>>
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This little girl just stands there with this look on her face, wearing a pirate hat.
>>
Is it time for Desire?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyymN-osUjY
>>
>>148112224
LOAD THIS DRYER
>>
>>
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>>148112214
Makes me want to suddenly lift the hat up and watch her react.
>>
>>148112214
I want to sexually humiliate Erika.
>>
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>>
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>>148112404
>>148112382
>>
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>>148112447
HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaaha oh man heh
>>
>>148112534
I'll kick your ass you whore of the democratic process.
>>
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HENTAI
HEEEENTAI
>>
>>148111338
Higurashi has a more consistent story and characters, but less experimentating with cool meta stuff. I prefer it to Umineko overall I think but both are great.
>>
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<Happy Halloween!>
>>
>>148111888
She's still pretty blue even when she's yelling, she has vicious and carefully thought plans for back-up, like the fake bomb.
>>
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This got posted in a recent thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfmaWUAyx38
>>
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Oh boy Oct 4th again huh
>>
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>>
>>148111415
KeiichixSatoshi best pair
>>
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Rare lewd Erika!!
>>
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I love Erikaposting
>>
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A wild Erika appears!
>>
I want to deito Lucifer.
>>
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Dumb Erika posters
>>
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>>148113823
Erika had a hard life.
>>
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>>148113896
I don't want her to suffer anymore.
>>
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>>148114226
Don't worry, her creator has moved on, so Erika will never be called upon again. She will never suffer agin and will rest for all eternity
>>
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>>148114532
While that's nice, it's also unfortunate we won't ever see her again. Seeing Erika return in a future work like in EP8 would definitely be fun.
>>
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Shit game

shit anime

Shit manga

0/10 fuck the author with a passion
>>
>>148115295
Picture is true but Umineko is still pretty good, it's just Chiru that fucks up by going too meta and experimental
>>
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>>148115295
Shit taste
>>
>>148115295
Magic, not even once.
>>
Damn you Yasu you had your way

With blood you drew out of red and gray

Other madmen have had their say

But only for a day!
>>
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Eva did nothing wrong
>>
>>148115746
STOP SAYING THAT.
EVA IS A BITCH THAT DID EVERYTHING WRONG REEEEEE
>>
>>148115746
Obviously
>>
>>148115816
>REEEE

Fuck off
>>
>>148115746
She killed Ange metaphorically, then she actually got her killed physically.
>>
>>148115928
Eva didn't give Ange cancer
>>
>>148115979
She gave her everything and made a press announcement so everyone would target her life for money. Literally murder.
>>
I want to fuck Lambdadelta!
>>
>>148115746
Eva was like the only character I went from hating to loving

Her duels with Rudolf and Kyrie man
>>
>>148115746
Except be an even worse person than the rest of the family you mean?
>>
>>148116229
Eva was the smartest Ushiromiya and the hardest working. Whenever she is being a bitch in ANY episode it's because she's almost always right about her accusations

Her first accusation towards Natsuhi about Natsuhi and Krauss hiding something about Kinzo ends up being right on the money. Her SEVERE distrust of Shannon is also as we all know one hundred percent justified
>>
>>148116320
Those are fair observations, but they don't absolve her if my claim.
>>
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>>148116320
She's just a killer that didn't get a chance to kill.

Also she "accidental" killed Natsuhi and her husband "accidentally" killed Krauss.
>>
>>148113228
i don't get it
>>
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>>148110933
>>
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Man, episode VIII manga is so much better than that pile of shit called ep VIII.

They actually confront the truth instead of tip-toying around it like retards and Erika even solves ep V.
>>
>>148116320
Just having solved mysteries doesn't redeem her. She did bad moral choices.
>>
>>148116527
FOOD IN THE BOMBS
>>
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>>148116504
>>
>>148116320
To be fair, Eva didn't know about Shannon's true identity and was only against her getting close to George.
>>
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>>148116655
>Lion
>A girl
>>
>>148116814
One of the reasons Genji hid Lion was because he was afraid Lion would grow up to look like Beatrice, and Kinzo would be tempted again. Why would he be afraid of Lion getting dicked by Kinzo if Lion was a boy?
>>
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>>148116850
Because homolust can happen if the boy is cute enough
>>
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>>148116814
cute boys can be girls too

4chan of all places should understand
>>
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>>148115418
The only actually exceptional thing is the OST. Other then that the first chapter is pretty good, then the rest of the 1st game goes downhill.

Chiru was just straight a mistake

>>148115628
You don't know SHIT about desire, see above the black magic and know the TRUTH

>>148115650
this

>>148115746
I fucking love the split personality trope, so I liked the younger her/her stuff. Although in reality she let her whole family die then became a shell of herself, so.

>>148116540
Well that look close the truth

The ultimate truth being that it's all useless
>>
>>148116850
When he hid them, he was already a "girl" without a body that cannot make love.

Not to mention Bernkastel asks Lion is he wants her to find a Fragment in which Natsuhi accepts him AND Kinzo repeats his sin. Given how set ep VII was on the ambiguity, it implies Lion's sex wouldn't matter to crazy Kinzo.
>>
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>>148116881
>The ultimate truth being that it's all useless

Ep VIII Manga message is more like "Both the absolute truth and fantasy will ruin you, you have to balance things."
>>
>>148116527
FOOD IN THE BOMBS?
>>
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>>148116881
>that image
>>
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>>148116189
I bet her pussy tastes like candy
Damn it Bern is so lucky
>>
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>>148105981
>those Mugen videos of Birdie raping Ange

I want Bern to be raped next
>>
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>>148117418
> I want Bern to be raped next
You sick bastard. I would've wanted Eva or Erika
>>
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Rosa = BEST MOM EVER
>>
>>148117764
I'm literally gonna send him Bernkastel character files and voice clips

I want to see Birdie destroy Bern
>>
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>>148118023
There's a special place in hell for people like you
>>
>>148105981
Will there ever be another unreasonably long meme-producing VN? I miss Umineko
>>
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>>148116320
Eva was a real human being who made the best of a bad situation.
>>
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Umineko was such a fun wild ride, I still miss it.

Also it's unironically one of the best love stories ever told.
>>
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>>
>>148118400
>best love stories
I hope you're talking about Willard and Lion, because Yasu and Battler is the most fucked up one-sided sociopathic relationship in existence
>>
>muh food bombs
>muh rosatrice
>muh soundtrack

how long until R07 makes something this good again?
>>
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>>148118400
>>148118446
It's been so long, I actually forgot most of this shit.

>Battler when he was a kid talked to yasu
>yasu now is kanon, shannon and beatrice just because it talked to Battler that one time
>now wants to murder and do weird shit because of shitty poorly-written motivation
>Ange is in the real world, all the magic shit is just written by outsiders in bottles
>Ange in the present with Featherine who is just a normal human and Bern is just a cat. She actually meets Battler with amnesia
>magic ending shows amnesia Battler is insane and deludes himself into thinking the family is all there

And that's it right? It's probably one of the worst things I ever read in terms of writing, but it sure was entertaining.
>>
>>148117418
I want to see this.
>>
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>>148118400
>Also it's unironically one of the best love stories ever told.
>Talk to a girl once in a year
>She fell in love
>It's your fault she killed your family

Fucked up? Yes. Sad? Sure? A great love story? ???

Yasu didn't even know Battler much, she's in love with that imagine of him.
No wonder Meta-Beatrice basically committed sudoku at the end of ep IV.
>>
>>148118631
>>Battler when he was a kid talked to yasu

Yes.

>>yasu now is kanon, shannon and beatrice just because it talked to Battler that one time

She created Kanon because she felt uncomfortable with her body and tried to live as a body. Shannon is who she is. Beatrice is who she consider her true self and wishes she could be.

>>now wants to murder and do weird shit because of shitty poorly-written motivation

Yasu was a moron, yes. In the manga her mindset is better explained, she basically goes insane because Genji and co. couldn't shut up.

At least she realize it in the end.

>>Ange is in the real world, all the magic shit is just written by outsiders in bottles

Magic doesn't exist, the meta world is ambiguous. Even at the end of Ep VIII, Ange has meta-world knowledge.
>>
>>148118400
Oh man

Read more love stories for the love of god
>>
>>148118806
I like Umineko because I see it as the story of how Ange breaks the cycle of hate due to both understanding Yasu and also due to understanding Eva.

Without Ange and Eva Umineko would lack any structural merits. It would just be a meta mess that asks you to care about the Mastermind because the Mastermind felt sad
>>
I think it's time for me to move on, say goodbye and thanks and go search for something new.
>>
I feel like R07 looked at the Kohaku route of Tsukihime and said "I want an entire VN about that", without remembering what made Kohaku so great.
>>
>>148118631
>magic ending shows amnesia Battler is insane and deludes himself into thinking the family is all there
Not exactly. While leaving the island, Battler got injured and was left with brain damage that temporarily took away his memory and gave him a new personality. When his memories started coming back, his new personality was in conflict with his old Battler self, giving him headaches and shit. He was treated to suppress the Battler in him.
Not sure how and why his family "returns" in the final scene, but that was during a party Ange threw for him in that orphanage.
>>
>>148118363
Real human beings dont torture and kill childs for fun
>>
>>148119054
I think Ryukishi tried to be intellectual, failed, obnoxiously started using the word LOVE to justify his shitty writing. And still couldn't even think of a good motivation for all this.

Umineko was amusing but objectively it's shit.
>>
>>148119054
R07 really like Tsukihime, you can also see it in Shimon arc.
>>
>>148118953
There's no cycle of hate in Umineko. Only a bunch of sociopathic assholes you'd just cut off from your life instead of 'understanding' them if you had a brain
>>
>>148119128
>>148119123
It's a shame, since Shmion and Shkanon are his weaker characters.

Rena and Eva are great. Rena in particular. I mean jesus you would have no idea from the anime that Rena is basically a high functioning sociopath BEFORE she starts going crazy.
>>
>>148119054
Been years since I played the maid raping simulator. What made Kohaku so great?
>>
Without a doubt the most overrated VN ever made.
>>
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>>148119123
Umineko felt like he tried to bite more than he could chew.

The solution is obvious shit from a mystery perspective, but I do kinda like a few things about Yasu character.

However ep VI+ suffers from wanting to hide stuff from the readers, overall poor pacing and ep. VIII is just a mess.
>>
>>148119181
Eva is pretty shit though
>>
>>148119199
All of the cum she guzzled over her years
>>
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>>148119181
>Shmion

Maekashi is a masterpiece, fix your shitty tastes mate.
>>
>>148119199
She did not set up a 8 episodes pity party.

Ep VII is basically "woeh is me, Ushiromiya servant girl"

At least the manga fixes that.
>>
>>148119281
Manga is great. Focuses on Ange, Battler, and Eva. Shows what happens. Has Ange move on.

Course it jerks Yasu's dick a bunch, but it's better than the VN
>>
>>148119206
That definitely belongs to Fate/stay night, buddy. Umineko doesn't trail too far behind it though
>>
>>148119336
>Course it jerks Yasu's dick a bunch, but it's better than the VN
Yeah, but in the manga Yasu admits her flaws. I can't remember if she did that in the VN, but she calls her own bullshit, instead of playing fate, she blames her inactivity and delusions.

There are also some parallels between her and Ange.

Also Erika discussion Shkanon and solving ep V was fucking great. I don't know how R07 expected people to solve the last one.
>>
>>148119206
>>148119365
>not Steins;Gate

niggers pls
>>
>>148119365
Is Umineko over-rated when everyone points to it as the definition of "Cop-out ending?"
>>
>>148119206
Not when fate/stay exists
>>
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>Creator of Higurashi shits out something so fucking bad it tanks the When they Cry series permanently
>Makes it so Umineko and Higurashi are linked by certain characters, obvious parralels and that Higurashi takes place in Umineko, being a previous board/cat box

Honestly this is the worst part of Umineko.

It fucking ruins Higurashi canon.
>>
>>148119208
>episode 8 was a mess
It was fine from a story perspective. I don't see why people hate on it so much. The main focus of episode 8 was on the real world, specifically Ange and how she should believe. Some scenes were drawn out, but I think thematically it handled this very well.
>>148119397
Yasu only blames herself in the VN as well. There's a considerable amount of self-hatred once you realize the fact that Yasu is the author of episodes 1 and 2.
>>
>>148119451
Just because it had a garbage ending doesn't negate the fact that it's overrated. Most of the endings in f/sn were garbage as well
>>
>>148119569
>It was fine from a story perspective.
Oh come on now, it was absolute fucking trash.You just don't hear much about it because most people gave up long before it.
>>
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do you faggots really believe the shannon is kanon shit even if it's retarded?

>they told me it's true so it has to be
>it doesn't matter if it makes no sense

do you have brain damage?
>>
>he believes in magic
>>
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>>148119652
IF IT'S NOT RED THEN IT'S NOT THE TRUTH
>>
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>>148119569
>A bazillion of poor magic scenes
>you can't handle the truth XD
>overall bad pacing
>Ange comes off as a cry baby
>u stupid reader

The manga has better pacing, the Ange-Beatrice parallels are drawn out, Battler hypocrisy is much better handled, the truth is revealed so the characters can actually argue about it and confront it instead of dancing around it like retards.
>>
>>148119616
>the scenes during the quiz where each of the family members regrets their wrongs towards each other and towards Ange
>the battle scene with the goats where each of the family members defends themselves against people trying to talk shit about them
>the emotional ending scenes with tohya hachijo and the magic ending
I thought it was a fantastic way to close off the series. It had a really bittersweet tone throughout, and it is so far the only VN that has ever made me shed tears.
>>
>>148119682
>Ange comes off as a cry baby
Come on now, you'd come off as a cry baby too if your entire family was murdered and nobody was able to explain why.
>u stupid reader
A lot of people fail to realize that though the goats do symbolize the reader they also symbolize the people of Ange's world. I don't think Ryukishi demonizes the reader, since Will and Dlanor are shown to respect the goats in the scenes where they are fighting them. The scenes with the goats attacking the family are ultimately showing the battle that is going on in Ange's mind, and how she should think of her family.
>>
>[good VN] is bad
I love this meme.
>>
>>148119254
What does that even mean?
>>
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>>148119690
If you look on the surface, yeah it was a nice cuddely sweet ending.

Literally any level of critical thinking and it just gets fucking destroyed.

None of that happened, it was just Battler screwing around for Ange. They are all dead. They never made any recompense with anything, apart from the ground. Hence why they were nice and welcoming, when in reality they were cold bastards.

And now we get into the problem of Umineko, it's just so fucking all over the place that whatever the ending was, it would be bullshit. Up to that point we've had fakeouts, false narrators up the ass and generally really poorly written cop-outs. If you add in the Meta, then essentially whatever we are shown is wrong. It's a fucking nightmare of bullshit which only the manga after fucking years of trying has been able to iron-out, and only by adding so much it's essentially a different beast fromt heg ame.

>>148119792
>[bad VN] is good
I really, really like this meme
>>
>>148105981
This was such shit. I loved Higurashi. Why is this even called "When they Cry?" Was Bernkastel supposed to be Rika or something? The fuck? Useless sequel to a great anime.
>>
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>>148119875
Very funny
>>
>>148119875

> Was Bernkastel supposed to be Rika or something?

she is literally her
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>>148119875
The Meta is a complicated and incredibly poorly written bridge between Higurashi and Umineko, with characters like Bernkastel being born from Higurashi, the whole of Higurashi being nothing but a catbox in Umineko, and generally the two being linked by references, parallels and some character moments.

In actuality, the two are very different games which should have had no link at all, one being straight fantasy and the other being a post-modern pile of shit. The two being linked exponentially lowers the quality of the two, lowering Higurashi to Umineko's level, and adding in yet another layer of convoluted bullshit writing to Umineko.

But then it wouldn't be When they Cry, the only time the author wrote anything worth a damn.
>>
>>148119863
>Hence why they were nice and welcoming, when in reality they were cold bastards.
That was kind of the point. One side of a person doesn't define them. "Without love it cannot be seen" as the story often says. Why do you think the story made a big deal to show all the characters feeling sorry about the things that they did? They probably never had a chance to feel regret in real life, since they were all dead. What Umineko is trying to say is that they all might have felt regret, or they might not have, there's no ultimate "red truth" to say how a person truly feels. Whether or not we should turn towards the optimistic side, is up to you.

>And now we get into the problem of Umineko, it's just so fucking all over the place that whatever the ending was, it would be bullshit. Up to that point we've had fakeouts, false narrators up the ass and generally really poorly written cop-outs. If you add in the Meta, then essentially whatever we are shown is wrong. It's a fucking nightmare of bullshit which only the manga after fucking years of trying has been able to iron-out, and only by adding so much it's essentially a different beast fromt heg ame.
I disagree, the story is purposefully misleading but that is largely the point, since the story has always been about ambiguity, but I would argue that the story makes sense, even if it seems incomprehensible at first. I think if you re-read Umineko with the truth in mind, a lot of scenes make more sense, especially looking back at the earlier episodes.
>>
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>>148119765
>Come on now, you'd come off as a cry baby too if your entire family was murdered and nobody was able to explain why.

In the manga she doesn't come off as a cry baby, she come as off a young woman that gave up on life and is in despair.

The parallel with her and Beatrice also enhance her character, in the VN I never felt like Beato genuinely liked Ange, while I did so in the Manga.

>>148119863
>I really, really like this meme
Ep I-IV and V are genuinely good, tho'. I do agree that Umineko was too far up in its own ass a the end.
>>
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>>148119875
>This was such shit. I loved Higurashi. Why is this even called "When they Cry?" Was Bernkastel supposed to be Rika or something? The fuck? Useless sequel to a great anime.
Read Rei.

>>148120009
>I disagree, the story is purposefully misleading but that is largely the point, since the story has always been about ambiguity, but I would argue that the story makes sense, even if it seems incomprehensible at first. I think if you re-read Umineko with the truth in mind, a lot of scenes make more sense, especially looking back at the earlier episodes.

Ep 1 and 2? Definitely. 3 and 4? Eeeh, things get muddle. Too many variable, too many people lying. Ep 5 has like 3 groups tricking each others, it's hilarious.
>>
>>148119834
It means I wish I wasn't born.
>>
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>>148120141
I'm sure your parents feel the same way
>>
>>148120170
Na, her parents actually love her. Even her grandma.
>>
>>148119863
>None of that happened, it was just Battler screwing around for Ange. They are all dead. They never made any recompense with anything, apart from the ground. Hence why they were nice and welcoming, when in reality they were cold bastards.

They actually a nice side of them, even Kinzo.

But yeah, mostly dicks.
>>
>>148120027
I've seen the Rei OVA, she just says "I shoud stop being Bernkastel", with no other explanation whatsoever

>>148119993
>The Meta
The fuck is that supposed to mean, I'm talking about When They Cry, and not about Overwatch or League of Legends.
>>
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>>148120315
>I've seen the Rei OVA, she just says "I shoud stop being Bernkastel", with no other explanation whatsoever
Can't wait for Mangagamer to translate it officially so people can stop asking it.
>>
>>148120315
The meta is the fucking alternative dimension introduced in Umineko.

Go play these games before you ask stupid questions
>>
>>148120429
I don't play video game adaptions
>>
>>148120458
It's adaptation, newfriend. It's also a sound novel; the only game part of Umineko is Golden Reverie
>>
>>148119970
Literally her trashcan, actually.
>>
>>148120458
Why go in a thread about a topic you don't know about?
>>
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>>148120458
>>
>>148119558
The connection between Higurashi and Umineko still confuses me. I mean, Higurashi is referenced as just a novel in Umineko but there are characters like Bern and Okonogi that contradict that.
>>
>>148119652
Rosatrice still a thing?
>>
Anyone here going to play Ougou Musoukyoku when MG releases it?
>>
>>148120776
Novels can have real-life people in them. Bern isn't really a character in the real world if you're discounting Ikuko's cat.
>>
>>148120614
To educate myself, to troll, to educate people about trolls, to collect (You)s, >>148120667 related.

>>148120667
Thanks, anon, people like you give me the drive to continue my godly work.
>>
>>148120776
It's one of the many fuckups of Umineko. I assume it's a dropped concept which was half formed.

Umineko does show up in other stuff as an in canon piece of fiction though, like in the Higabana manga as a play.

So really the author doesn't give a shit about the connection and clearly hasn't thought about it, and I won't either.
>>
>>148120874
The meta wasn't included in Yasu writing.
>>
>>148120776
>>148120874
Actually, thinking about it more, in Higurashi episode 4 the ending has that cop guy (forgot his name) and Akasaka publishing a book literally called "Higurashi no naku koro ni" so that might be what Battler read.
>>
>>148120849
It's a dead game, nobody plays it anymore.
>>
>>148120894
>It's one of the many fuckups of Umineko. I assume it's a dropped concept which was half formed.
The connection is there, it's just really isn't important much to overall Umineko narrative, really.
>>
>>148120921
MG is going to release it in english, didn't you know?
>>
Every thread until we reach the Golden Land.
>>
>>148120894
>Umineko does show up in other stuff as an in canon piece of fiction though, like in the Higabana manga as a play.
Keep in mind that Umineko itself is a series of message bottles/fanfiction by Tohya, so maybe someone ripped off from that and made it into a play.
>>
>>148120776
Just forget about it. R07 fucked up trying to make a connection between both, it adds nothing to any of these fictions. It makes Higurashi seem cheap because it's apparently just a fiction in a fiction, and it makes Umineko seem pretentious because it tries to gulp the previous game
>>
>>148120961
Yes, I did, I've known for five minutes since the anon I replied to told me. It's still a dead fighting game nobody is playing anymore. Not even Melty Blood became "alive" again after its Steam release, and Type Moon Stuff has a much larger fanbase than When They Cry.
>>
>>148121032
No, I think it's clear that Higurashi is something
that happened in the Umineko universe, not that it was a piece of fiction within fiction. Keep in mind:
>>148120919
>>
>>148121018
Now now, don't bring up the bottle shit. That's just too many layers of bullshit for one piece of fiction to handle
>>
>>148121095
They hit you on the head with the "Higurashi was just a board game between Bern and Lambda" thing. It makes Higurashi cheap.
>>
>>148121042
Wasn't that because they didn't implement rollback with the Steam version? Both games are still fun.
>>
>>148121095
Maybe there is some smart connection he wrote in.

But honestly who gives a shit, they should have stayed separate anyway
>>
>>148121018
You are overthinking it. Higurashi also appears in TV during Umineko anime.

Higurashi and Umineko are separate universes basically, they don't even follow the same rules, one it's a fantasy, the other is a mystery.

Bernkastel and 34 can cross dimensions and Featherine is basically GOD.
>>
>>148121137
I won't deny it, I'm just realistic. I love Ougon to death, so I don't get my hopes up.
>>
>>148121125
>They hit you on the head with the "Higurashi was just a board game between Bern and Lambda" thing. It makes Higurashi cheap.

Why? Meta sections with Bern discussions the fragments and the pieces were already in Higurashi.

Heck, they create Matsuribayashi-hen word from scratch.
>>
>>148121096
>That's just too many layers of bullshit for one piece of fiction to handle
How so? It really adds a lot to the story if you look at it in this light. The first two episodes of Umineko portray Beatrice in a very negative light, and Beatrice really toys with Shannon and Kanon. This makes sense when you consider the fact that Yasu is the author. There's a reason why episode 3 is very Eva focused. Since episode 3 is the first episode written by Tohya, and at the time the eva culprit theory was the most popular. What happened in episode 4 is somewhat similar to what happened in the episode 7 tea party, which means that Tohya might have been regaining his memories by then.
>>
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I want to marry Dlanor and cuddle with her on the couch!
>>
>>148121125
This is why I tend to think of Higurashi as separate.

Thank god it was written after Umineko, so there aren't any references to that fucking abortion in it.

>>148121209
If you want to really overthink that shit, fine. It all leads to disappointment either way
>>
>>148121208
It makes Higurashi cheap because it tells you all the character are just pawns in some dumb nihilistic game between two bitches.
>>
>>148120919
>>148121095
Wouldn't that mean that Umineko takes place in the world where Rika and all of Hinamizawa is dead? If the Hinamizawa disaster happened, then it would be pretty clear that the book published would be a non-fiction record of what police think happened, but Battler described it like just an average mystery novel.
>>
>>148121209
>Since episode 3 is the first episode written by Tohya, and at the time the eva culprit theory was the most popular. What happened in episode 4 is somewhat similar to what happened in the episode 7 tea party, which means that Tohya might have been regaining his memories by then.

That's actually not true. That's what you get when R07 doesn't reveal the solution clearly, I guess.

Yasu still does a lot of the killing in ep III. In ep IV she essentially brides EVERYONE. Also the whole thing with "Trail to chose the next head?" she came up with that.

She came up with countless scenarios.
>>
>>148121243
>If you want to really overthink that shit, fine. It all leads to disappointment either way
For you, maybe. I just find it cool how much thought Ryukishi put into it. Hell, even going back and re-reading scenes in Umineko, it's cool how much shit is foreshadowed.
>>
>>148121243
>Thank god it was written after Umineko
Higurashi was written before Umineko, and probably without the Umineko lore in mind. It's okay as a stand-alone.
>>
>>148121234
The great equalizer is death.
>>
>Asanagi will never make porn about Erika/Bern getting raped to death
Why live?
>>
>>148121246
How so? It doesn't change anything. For the characters, their fragments are real. Rika/Bern struggle is real, she isn't even the Witch or Miracles in Higurashi.
>>
>>148121246
Yeah, but they are still supposed to be people. All of it is fictional anyways, but the characters in Umineko and Higurashi are fictional to other fictional characters as well, which really doesn't cheapen the experience.
>>
>>148121273
There was still EVA-Beatrice and Eva was a major accomplice in episode 3. Obviously Yasu is still the culprit, otherwise the story would not work. This is where Ikuko comes in. Ikuko was the one that new the culprit from the start, and as Tohya wrote the drafts, Ikuko edited it to make it fit with the true culprit.
>>
>>148121293
Throw EVA-Beatrice in the mix as well. She was such a little cum slut
>>
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>>148121278
He probably wrote those things in, then later incorporated them into his writings. He almost defiantly didn't think of episode 8 when writing episode 1.

>>148121281
Whoops, meant to say before Umineko.

I actually really like Higurashi, it's one of my favourite VN's. Imagine my surprise when reading the raging dumpster fire that is Umineko
>>
>>148121317
It still means their universe is actually just a tiny piece of Umineko, a simple game 2 lolis played.
>>
>>148121368
I really have no doubt that he thought about the Tohya/Ikuko thing from the start. It explains a lot about how the meta world is set up.
>>
>>148121333
>There was still EVA-Beatrice and Eva was a major accomplice in episode 3. Obviously Yasu is still the culprit, otherwise the story would not work. This is where Ikuko comes in. Ikuko was the one that new the culprit from the start, and as Tohya wrote the drafts, Ikuko edited it to make it fit with the true culprit.
>Implying Eva is not capable of killing

>>148121373
Higurashi and Umineko universes are separates, 34 and Bern are voyagers.

Also again, the characters in Higurashi novel are always seen as "piece" from the fragments words, it isn't nothing new.
>>
>>148121317
Instead of Higurashi being a heart-wrenching tale of mistrust, hatred, suffering, murder and eventual friendship and triumph, it's a board game played by people who don't give a shit, by non-living pieces in a fictionalized board game.

Man who the fuck even thought writing that would be a good idea
>>
>>148105981
Higarashi was better because it had rewatchability. You can watch Higarashi and realise why a character is acting a certain way. In Umeiko all you do is watch scenes and feel bored because you know the magic isn't real and is nothing more than padding.
>>
>>148121449
Thank you
>>
>>148121429
Yeah she's capable of killing but Tohya is the one writing it. I'm saying that episode 3 puts Eva in a bad light because that is what Tohya thought initially. It's even revealed as such in the manga, if you want to check that.
>>148121458
>In Umeiko all you do is watch scenes and feel bored because you know the magic isn't real and is nothing more than padding.
That's wrong, the magic scenes often contained very crucial hints to the motive and the culprit. They weren't padding at all. It's very interesting to re-read some of the magic scenes knowing what's going on. It really ends up enhancing umineko on a re-read.
>>
>>148121449
Uh, it still these things. You are thinking that from the point of Bern and Lambda these characters are fiction. They are not. The sea of fragments is real. Lambda is just lending Tanako her power. Rika is just trying to survive.

Heck, Bern was born from the struggle of Higurashi characters ultimately.
>>
The more I read this thread, the more I want to go back to watching moeshit.
>>
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>>148120776
Higurashi is a "story" within the Umineko world that written by someone and had a popular anime made. Umineko itself is a story within the Higanbana world and is used as the basis for a stage play.

It's very possible however, that when you look at the worlds from the meta-aspect, the idea that these worlds might actually exist but be thought of as stories within their own worlds are interesting.

If an author creates something that world springs into its own existence, or take on a life of their own and exist independently of the author. Even if someone in the Umineko universe wrote a story about Higurashi, the universe of Higurashi actually exists because of that and Bernkastel came from that universe to Umineko's.

This seems to be one of the constant themes throughout Umineko - that people can create individuals or even entire worlds or realities and those worlds can be said to exist provided there is no way to disprove the existence.
>>
>>148121522
I read the mango. What I'm saying is, Ep III is a totally valid scenario. Eva is capable of killing, all the adults are expect Krauss because he's probably too stupid-
>>
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>>148121458
The actual writing of Higurashi is superior as well, the slow descent into paranoia in Onikakushi is masterful. Umineko really can't compete.

>>148121559
I'm amazed you can't see that the tale essentially being two omnipotent beings fucking around instead of actual people actually suffering has less emotional impact.

I mean, power to you but most people don't see it that way.

>>148121577
The correct solution
>>
>>
>>148121458
I think Higurashi is better because the main cast is fully fleshed out unlike Umineko. Everyone got a story arc, and the motivations for the characters actions are INFINITELY better than Yasu's stupidity. Also Higurashi was just more fun and memorable in general. Umineko spent most of its time trying to be intellectual, backpedalling, and then having underwhelming endings (ryukishi even made 2 because he's not confident enough to make a true compelling ending)

The only thing I liked in Umineko more was the music. Higurashi was less pretentious and more entertaining. Umineko was a mess.
>>
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>>148121631
Someone's jealous of the moon man. Those moon resorts will be a hit any day now
>>
>>148121645
>I'm amazed you can't see that the tale essentially being two omnipotent beings fucking around instead of actual people actually suffering has less emotional impact.
>two omnipotent beings

Lambda
???
>>
>>148121645
No. I still try to block out that shit. When you mix two great tasting things, sometimes you get stuff that tastes like shit.
>>
>>148121718
>arguing the nitty gritty about power-level of witches
Jesus man

Alright
"two inter-dimensional beings instead of actual people"
>>
>>148121672
Higurashi is better because the Meta-stuff, while entertaining, makes the characters completely unrelatable on a basic level. It was awesome, yes, but not as emotionally involving as Higurashi
>>
>>148121458
I think umineko was more ambitious and had better developed characters, I also thought that it had a very satisfying culprit so i prefer it to higurashi.
>>
>>148121741
I'm not arguing about level, Bernkastel literally isn't a witch until the end of Rei.

She's a character like Rika, Keiichi, or Rena. The only difference is that her perspective is one of an outsider because she's literally Rika trash can.

You are complaining about things that always existed in Higurashi. Higurashi Rei ending is literally Bern declaring she's going to have fun creating tons of different scenarios.
>>
>>148121789
>makes the characters completely unrelatable on a basic level.
This

Something actually quite alarming about Battler in the final episode. He is joyfully running an absolutely fucking gruesome game, which is sister accidentally stumbles into, about him, his father and mother, brutally murdering everyone.

There are darker ways to read Umineko the the ones straight presented to us
>>
A story within a story can have the same emotional impact as a story.

At the end of the day they're both fictional, you can still be invested in them.
>>
>>148121840
>Rei
Almost no one read this. Bern is fine as Rika's trash can in the sense of "human Rika struggles and her suffering is trashed at the end so she can live a normal life", but who cares about Bern herself?
>>
>>148121800
>better developted characters

One of the big things for me is that the Umineko characters never really interact. It's all message in bottle extra dimensional kek this actually makes sense in the canon even though it's a meme chess. On a basic level there is no character growth because they are all dead, and we can't trust what we do see of them. I guess you could say we never really know the characters, much like Ange.

Something I actually like about Higurashi is that characters remember, there is continuity and at the end it works out.

>>148121840
Rei is very, very controversial and has many interpretations. That's one of them, another is that Rika is straight dead. And there are more on top of that.

But in traditional 07 style, concrete plot points are based on vague interpretations that undermine the whole fucking narrators credibility, so who the fuck knows about Bern at this point
>>
>>148121867
Not intially, at first Battler just wanted to invite Ange to the Halloween Party, but Ange didn't want that. Bern was the one that did the purple statements game, that pinned the culprits as Battler's parents, though.
>>
>>148121949
Bernkastel was in Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen, you silly.

She even talks to the player.

>>148122012
>Rei is very, very controversial and has many interpretations. That's one of them, another is that Rika is straight dead. And there are more on top of that.
>straight dead

Literally what. There are two interpenetration of Rei, it was all a dream and she was in a coma, or she died a couple of times.
>>
>>148121867
Battler never wrote an episode where murder occurs. In 6 Erika overwrote his fake murder mystery by killing the victims and the game came to a halt. In 8 he just had everyone playing along happily. Then Bern presents her own game to him.
>>
>>148122057
>Bernkastel was in Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen, you silly.
I remember, but in this context it's more like Rika's wicked personality after the reboot. Well I'm not against Bern but there's really no need to go retcon Higurashi into a board game between two characters, it's just cheap.
>>
>>148122034
>>148122091
I swear in 8 it's a battler game?

At the very least I remember him being not at all fussed over it, complimenting Bern on it, not at all reacting the way a human would do seeing themselves and there close family murder all those people.

So either way my point is valid

>>148122109
This. This a thousand times.
>>
is it time to go to the golden land yet?
>>
>>148122012
What I prefer about Umineko's as compared to Higurashi, is that I feel that Ryukishi improved on some of the stuff that was going on in Higurashi. The whole child abuse angle with Maria/Rosa was done way better.

There is no character growth, there is no happy ending, but I kind of like tragic stories anyway. In Umineko we can clearly see each of the character's struggles and regrets, in a way that really impacted me more than Higurashi did, especially when you consider the fact that they may not have been able to come to terms with these regrets.

An example I would give is Rosa and Maria. At the end of episode 2 we are presented with this really nice scene where Rosa apologizes to Maria for being such a bad mother, and Maria forgives her, finally able to reconcile the 'bad witch' Mama with the good Mama. However, in real life, this is something that may not have happened.

Another is with George. In episode 6 we see him in the love duel standing up to Eva, and becoming his own person. This scene really impacted me due to the fact that I could really relate to George, and a lot of the things George was talking about. We can really see George's struggled and how he wanted to overcome them, yet never was able to do because, again, he died before he was able to.
>>
>>148122146
Jesus christ man. She just presents a murder mystery with his family as the characters. She even makes him a murderer in the scenario. There wasn't the gruesome gore of Beato's games it was just a logic puzzle for the most part. Did you even read it?
>>
>>148121867
>He is joyfully running an absolutely fucking gruesome game
Yeah, because his game is "the island exploded and then everyone died", there's no gruesome murders, there's nothing.
>>
>>148122208
>Another is with George. In episode 6 we see him in the love duel standing up to Eva, and becoming his own person
Should have gotten more spotlight. The problem with Umineko is that it introduced so many things and characters that the good bits got shafted for more MAGICS and YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH.
>>
I just wanted to have fun on the 4th Oct with fellow seacats, not defend my beloved VN from goats
>>
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>>148122184
No, that's tomorrow. Depending on your timezone, the first twilight should be happening soon.
>>
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>>148122209
The point is that it's still a gruesome murder of his close family and he doesn't care. It shows he's basically lost his humanity.

>>148122223
Still, that's a world fragment which ends pretty fucking badly

>>148122184
OF WE GO
>>
>>148122308
Yeah, but he can just reset it.
The point of the Golden Land is that it's two days that never end.
>>
>>148122291
The witch circle-jerk is
>>>/jp/
That way

This is goat territory
>>
>>148122109
>e Rika's wicked personality after the reboot
Nope. Read Kai epilogue.

Because there are as many fragments as I want that I can play with. 

>What ?

>You wanna play too?

>*giggle*, it's interesting.

>It gives you the feeling you became god. 

>Like a world where Satoshi is together with them or a world where the Sonozaki twins don't change places 

>I wonder how would be a world where Satoko's parents and Rika's parents are well. 
 
>Aah, how would it be?

>If Akasaka was seduced by Takano and went to the enemy side.

>Ahaha, it seems interesting. 

>Personally, I have interest in seeing a world where that Takano is madly in love with Tomitake. 

>It seems to be interesting to try and play pairing Keiichi with many girls.

>I love fighting scenes.
>>
>>148122308
>It shows he's basically lost his humanity.
I wouldn't say this example shows he lost his humanity (it's just a riddle after all), but yes, Battler kinda lost his humanity in Chiru, siding with the witch side and not giving a shit about his dead family. That's what put me off. No reason for me to empathize with Yasu for hours.
>>
>>148122308
That's often the fate of characters in stories like this where they go through horrible shit over and over again. Battler spent the first 4 episodes crying over and over again. Maybe Ryu thought the audience had enough? It was just a logic puzzle really. A standard murder mystery very unlike the horror show that Beato produced.
>>
>>148122274
I thought George was pretty well fleshed out desu. George and Jessica both had their spotlights in episodes 2 and 6. Hideyoshi, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, and Nanjo were probably the weakest characters.
>>
>>148122458
He was. I just wish he had gotten a bit more spotlight, fuck Beato I want some Ushiromiya shenanigans.
>>
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>>148122208
I do feel like he mature in Umineko too, I mean Higurashi is quite otaku-bait for a very classical VN setup, Umineko could sorta pass for a book. It's very less wish-fulfillment. Beatrice body may not even be female, think about it.

On other hand, I feel like his writing is not as good. He essentially bite more than he could chew for a story way out of his league. The mystery is stupid, there are too many layers of Meta, too many characters and Chiru comes off as unfocused more than anything, ep VIII especially.
>>
Umineko Question > Higu Answers >> Higu Questions >= Umineko Answers
>>
>>148122308
>Still, that's a world fragment which ends pretty fucking badly

Yeah, people seem to forget it. Even in ep VIII with the truth revealed Beato always said she sinned in many words.
>>
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>this thread
>every Umineko thread
>Umineko in general
>>
I enjoy shitposting with you guys but I'm gonna be away for a couple of days.
I hate to blog but long story short my dad finally apologized and we're gonna have a little family holiday to this place we used to go when I was a kid. There was this cute girl there as well, hope she's still there. I should give her a present, like a stuffed horse or something.
>>
>>148122458
Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were the worst off considering the importance they had as characters. Hideyoshi I can let go as he has little to no importance to any main character except George. Likewise Gohda was never given any real significance other than being a bully to Yasu and suckup to Natsuhi but it's okay to have minor characters like Gohda and Hideyoshi. It's the other three that are glaring. You could say Kumasawa and Genji are made up for In Ronove and Virgilia but they don't really add much and only make things more confusing.
>>
>>148122611
You're better off trying to fuck your hot cousin instead of that flat chest maid Battler.
>>
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>>148121707
Why is he so best?
And why there are so many people hating on Umineko here? How did you even finished the 8 novels if you dislike it that much?
>>
>>148122556
Just because the setting feels more western doesn't mean that it's less wish-fulfillment or more mature. You could tell by the end of Umineko that Ryukishi projected a lot in the story and kept trying to force his personal bullshit on you. If anything the whole "just make your own truth if you don't like it" is a lot more escapist than Higurashi's "go talk to people and solve things with them"
>>
>>148122625
Yeah they were basically forgotten about.

That and the entirety of Gendo's past was just fucking dire
>>
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>>148122678
Because outside of /jp/ there are anons with actual opinons who don't felate something because it has gothic loli witches
>>
>>148122625
The manga sorta gives them some importance and frantically, they almost come off as mentally challenged.

>>148122682
He changed that in the manga at least.
>>
post those George images.
You know the ones.
>>
>>148122678
>And why there are so many people hating on Umineko here?

You speak as if it's something new. A lot of people hated how Umineko turned out back then.
>>
>>148122781
>in the manga
Literally 'the manga is better' tier

Trash
>>
>>148122678
I loved the first 4 eps and hate 5-8. I was hoping that it would get better but it didn't.
>>
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>>148122784
The "George is an asshole" ones?
>>
>>148122860
yes, those.
fat george is ok too
>>
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>>148122784


>>148122824
But the manga is better. I'm not saying it's particularly good, mind you, Chiru still has tons of problems, but at least it's not mind-dumping stupid as the VN.
>>
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>>148122831
>Hate 5
>>
>>148122682
>"just make your own truth if you don't like it"
The message wasn't that. It was all about thinking for yourself. This is why the story doesn't hand the culprit to you on a silver platter. In Ange's case, she was pinning all of her hatred onto Eva, even though we find out that Eva did have Ange's best interest in mind in the end. After she is repeatedly told by other classmates and such that her parents are tied to awful people and are most likely the actual culprits, she is at a loss of how to think.

Battler never really forces Ange into thinking a certain way, but he presents his argument about why he thinks the Ushiromiyas weren't total sociopaths and lets Ange come to her decision by herself.
>>
>>148122900
That's one of the endings you could get from the confusing mess that is Chiru.
>>
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>>148122871
Sorry, pal. My "When they Cry" folder is on my spare hard drive. Can't be assed to transfer them right now
>>
>>148122900
>It was all about thinking for yourself
Bullshit. Ange's conclusion is literally "I'll keep thinking my family is alive and hope for Battler to come back and YEAH he came back thanks for the Deus Ex Machina bro" which would be very negative in real life.

>In Ange's case, she was pinning all of her hatred onto Eva
And rightfully so. Eva did a whole misinformation campaign and was the only survivor, it was only natural to suspect her. Ange has no obligation to go buddy buddy with her. Eva, however, didn't have the right to fuck Ange's life up, which she did, in many elaborate and vicious ways.

>Eva did have Ange's best interest in mind in the end
For a very short time. She hid the truth, but she also tortured the fucking 6 years old child and eventually got her killed.

>Battler never really forces Ange into thinking a certain way, but he presents his argument about why he thinks the Ushiromiyas weren't total sociopaths and lets Ange come to her decision by herself.
That's where Umineko fucks up, because there should be other options than "they're Jesus and no one did anything wrong" and "I'm edgy with a wicked sense of humor". Ange should have disregarded the whole Rokkenjima incident and people should have been forbidden to trigger her fucking PTSD instead of going on a "who's the culprit" debate 15 years after the events.
>>
>>148122824
When the original author gives enough direction and even adds extra content I would say necessary an adaptation can surpass the original. Though I could never give up the soundtrack.
>>
>only read the main Higurashi episodes
>can't follow any of this Rei shit
>>
>>148123050
>and eventually got her killed

What are you talking about? Ange probably died of cancer. She lived to see 60 or so year old Battler.
>>
>>148123099
It's not worth it, don't bother.

Basically the main Higurashi stuff is the only decent stuff the author has ever put out.
>>
>>148122682
>If anything the whole "just make your own truth if you don't like it" is a lot more escapist than Higurashi's "go talk to people and solve things with them"
I don't think you understand very well.
If you don't like it you can find your own truth, but you have to back it up with decent, that's what the climax of episode 8 is.
However, considering the Hegelian idea of truth, you quickly realize that that's not the point of Umineko at all. It's more about accepting an uncomfortable truth you do not want to believe. This very much is a key point in Ange's story, she doesn't want to believe the truth she knows from the beginning, so she looks and looks and looks around, but finds nothing but the truth she has known the entire time.
>>
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>>148122346
I've got to say, the /jp/ thread seems pretty comfy.

>>148123083
>soundtrack
Is it time to post your favorites?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9T17pdMhrY
>>
>>148123050
>Bullshit. Ange's conclusion is literally "I'll keep thinking my family is alive and hope for Battler to come back and YEAH he came back thanks for the Deus Ex Machina bro" which would be very negative in real life.
That was Ange's conclusion. It may not have been yours, and that's alright. Also, Battler died on Rokkenjima. Ange only met Tohya.
>That's where Umineko fucks up, because there should be other options than "they're Jesus and no one did anything wrong" and "I'm edgy with a wicked sense of humor". Ange should have disregarded the whole Rokkenjima incident and people should have been forbidden to trigger her fucking PTSD instead of going on a "who's the culprit" debate 15 years after the events.
"they're Jesus and no one did anything wrong" is not in the story. They all admit to doing things wrong, and they express regret for it.
>>
>>148122569
You liked alien parasites and secret mercenary groups?
>>
>>148123115
Episode 4. Ange gets betrayed and killed by her bodyguard to get her money and run the Ushiromiya related companies.
It doesn't happen in the next fragments where Ange becomes a good girl and gives her money to Okonogi, but it's still the same setting : Eva gave her money to Ange and announced it in the journals so she could get killed.
>>
So is Higurashi actually good?
I've only read Umineko and it's a fucking trainwreck, I don't want to waste so much time reading another shitty VN if it's not worth it.
>>
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>>148123136
Rei is a great epilogue and the kind of closure Rika needed.

>>148122900
>Battler never really forces Ange into thinking a certain way, but he presents his argument about why he thinks the Ushiromiyas weren't total sociopaths and lets Ange come to her decision by herself.

Pretty sure he did forced her. Even fucking Erika managed to point out his hypocrisy.
>>
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Why are arrogant, sadistic wanna-be-Mary-Sue-but-actually-fail-all-the-time detectives so great?
>>
>>148123212
If Eva didn't leave Ange her money you'd be pissed just the same. Ange getting killed in episode 4 was presented as only a possibility for her. There's also the trick ending where she suspects and kills everyone who gets in her way like a good girl.
>>
>>148123208
It wasn't parasites, and at least Higurashi is not a fantasy.

Umineko spent 4 episodes jerking off to its mystery and it's was one of the most cheap tricks you can find in a mystery.
>>
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>>148122569
Higu questions >Higu Answers >>Umineko questions >>>>> literal shit >>>>>> Umineko answers

>>148123237
Higurashi is great, it's a murder mystery but it actually has answers, better characterization and is generally considered great. Well worth a read.
>>
>>148119101
>childs
>>
>>148123241
He doesn't force her when he literally presents her with a choice at the end. The correct word you might have wanted to use would be "brainwash".
>>
>>148123288
>Higurashi is not a fantasy.
Not a proper mystery but a fantasy* welp

Also really solid character work.
>>
>>148123203
>Also, Battler died on Rokkenjima. Ange only met Tohya.
Battler still comes back in a hamfisted ending scene where Ushiromiya sprites come out of nowhere to greet him.
It's like the writer is asking you to feel something.

>"they're Jesus and no one did anything wrong" is not in the story. They all admit to doing things wrong, and they express regret for it.
Storywise? Yeah. Messagewise? Ange made them to be great guys. Kinzo was a nice grandpa and everyone was friendly when they were all a bunch of pricks. Ange's conclusion was "make a delusion where everyone is good and watching over me" rather than "let's meet new, better people and stop thinking about that shit"
>>
>>148123237
Ryukishi is a hack who poisons everything he touches. Stay the fuck away.
>>
>>148123338
>It's like the writer is asking you to feel something.
Yeah, like I wasted something like 60 hours on hot garbage

>you see magic is bullshit but these extra dimensional gothic loli's are the fucking shit also Ange can rezzie peps lol DESIRE
>>
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>>148118446
>I hope you're talking about Willard and Lion,
This.
>>
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>>148123271
It's got to be the tape. Her infatuation with tape was strangely erotic
>>
>>148123338
>Battler still comes back in a hamfisted ending scene where Ushiromiya sprites come out of nowhere to greet him. It's like the writer is asking you to feel something.
Tohya saw that Ange was happy and moved on with life, allowing Battler to finally be able to rest in the golden land. It makes sense.
>Storywise? Yeah. Messagewise? Ange made them to be great guys. Kinzo was a nice grandpa and everyone was friendly when they were all a bunch of pricks. Ange's conclusion was "make a delusion where everyone is good and watching over me" rather than "let's meet new, better people and stop thinking about that shit"
It was Ange's family, dude. What would you do if your entire family was murdered and people were blaming your parents as being the killers? I don't think it's something you can just stop thinking about.
>>
>>148123274
>If Eva didn't leave Ange her money you'd be pissed just the same
No. In the current scenario, Eva's last actions are a deliberate murder attempt she's doing for shit and giggles. No amount of "she was sad" can justify that shit, she'd get jailed for it.
>>
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When the fun starting in Umineko? After episode 2?
>everyone dies in horrible deaths
>Edgybitch laughing and stomping on everything
>Battler is being her torture toy
>no one can beat Edgybitch
>>
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Umineko sacrificed logic and reasoning for muh feelings and plot armor and generic shounen shit. If it didn't pretend to be a battle of intellect earlier it would come off less pretentious, but I can definitely understand why some people don't like Umineko.

The writing is really bad. The endings are bad, the magic scenes are just filler. Ange is just a worse version of Battler with no personality and aside from the obligatory "tragic" shit she's a Mary Sue that accomplishes everything with "muh love muh feelings I believeeee".

Ryukishi did better with Higurashi because he managed to flesh out every character, make the story compelling without the need for pseudo-intellectual babble that didn't even amount to anything. And no, saying "she believed it" doesn't make it okay.

If I made a story where the main character just has to say "I believe" and she wins, people will call me a hack. But because some underage chuunis get caught up in all of Umineko's nonsensical """"""intellectual""""""" gibberish, it's okay.


Yasu's motivation is poorly written, makes no sense and dumb.

>"b-but that's the point he's dumb"

By that logic every character ever made makes sense because if he doesn't you can just say he was intentionally poorly written.

And outside the game boards Umineko was never interesting or entertaining anyway. It's up there with Fate in terms of asspulls and contradictions.
>>
>>148123530
(you)
>>
>>148123530
Hegel.
>>
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>>148123529
Fun was when the individual chapters were released.

Now we wallow in the aftermath of a ruined party
>>
>>148123481
>It was Ange's family, dude. What would you do if your entire family was murdered and people were blaming your parents as being the killers? I don't think it's something you can just stop thinking about.
You'd discard it and tell everyone to stop bringing it up because it's PTSD material. You wouldn't, or at least you shouldn't bring that shit up 15 years after.
>>
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>>148123435
I want to wrap her up in tape like a mummy and then stick her in a closet, neglect her for a few hours and listen to her trying to escape.
>>
>>148123529

Episode 3 was my favorite episode, so I would say from there on
>>
>>148123529
when you drop that shit and read Higurashi
>>
>>148123529
>Umineko
>fun
>some bitches cackling while pretending to sound intelligent and taunting a main character who wasn't the real main character after all
>the witches all have disappointing real selves. In the story, the real world Featherine is just a writer, Bern is just a cat, the family is dead but Battler with amnesia survived
>"If you believe, that means every bad thing will go away"
>"S-see? I didn't have to give a good reason and good mystery, I can just spam the word love and people will think it's meaningful!"


Umineko can be enjoyable at times, but let's be real, it's fucking awful.
>>
>>148123649
>Quit saying mean things to me, I have PTSD and I'm going to scream rape every time you bring up my traumatic past!

So you think Ange would have been a better character if she had dyed her hair blue and become some dyke SJW?
>>
>>148123577
The best thing about Umineko is the build up. Too bad there's no satisfying pay-off to anything and we have to suffer through a bland Mary Sue giving literal "love always wins" speeches.
>>
>>148123690
love doesn't literally mean love.
An entire episode is spent on bashing that into your skull.
>>
>>148123688
>read Higurashi
But I'm not newfag.
>>
>>148123690
>he didn't understand umineko
People don't like it because as Ryukishi said once, the answer is not something that can be copypasted satisfyingly. However, the culprit is really satisfying if you go back through the story and see how it was hinted at. I thought it was satisfying, at least.
>>
>>148123739
You actually believe that shit talking someone's dead parents and pissing on their graves is the same as triggering a SJW? You could get two arms broken for less than that. Ange should have just knifed one or two bitches, problem solved.
>>
>>148123427
Got any more? This is moe as fuck
>>
>>148123803
Yasu's characterization was masterfully done, I have to say. EP7 shows you just how low he falls. The problem is that he gets glorified all the time too, even in the next EP.
Umineko is full of really great stuff that sometimes get burried under really stupid shit.
>>
>>148123817
>Ange should have just knifed one or two bitches

Ange didn't have the guts to actually hurt or kill other people. She was too afraid of the consequences that would end up happening afterwords. That was the entire point of the scene where the Stakes refused to kill anybody and she destroyed them for not obeying her orders after all - that Ange was not psychologically capable of taking revenge against her tormentors.

This was in contrast to Yasu in Chapter 7 where we saw her using Gaap to play pranks on and get revenge against the other maids who were mistreating her.
>>
>>148123803
I understood Umineko, that's why it's so bad. The motivation, the events on the island, Ange, the constant "feelings over logic" shit, it was all terrible. How anyone can call that good writing is just baffling. But hey I am on /a/ after all.
>>
>>148123939
>Ange didn't have the guts to actually hurt or kill other people.
That was a joke. Ange should've complained to a teacher and the bitches would have gotten punished or expelled, and rightfully so.
>>
>OMK getting a Steam release with better netcode
>still never came out on any console other than the 360
>>
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>>148123658
>not having Erika the detective become Foreverial Tiedup Erika and she was fully delitized with her organs and inside and literally her whole body changed into a permanent living bologna version with permanent living bologna organs and insides and a permanent bologna, ham and cream cheese tongue. nose is a permanent pastrami nose and has two permanent ham lips and two permanent bologna and ham ears.
Do you even desire?
>>
>>148123909
>masterfully done
>Yasu

Okay now this has to be a /jp/ raid
>>
>>148123557
>>148123566
>no argument

Ironically this just proves my point about Umineko being pretentious. Notice how no one can actually deny any of the points made and just backs down like cowards, like Ryukishi. Who couldn't come up with a great explanation for his own mystery and just throws random philosophy at the readers. The fanbase mirrors the series pretty well. Thanks for proving me right guys.
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>>148123529
>episode 2
>Bernkastel told me to stop hugging knees and being sad
>next scene is Rosa's cannibalism
I just expected "objection" shenanigans
>>
>>148124059
I hated EP8 and 6 as much as you, and Battler defending muhbeato was a terrible idea in my opinion too. But I have to say Yasu's characterization is good, you can see him twisting the logic more and more to fit his desires and fuck up his mind more and more. It's good in a "let's see how much of a trainwreck he can become" way, and he doesn't overstay his welcome, unlike Beato.
>>
>>148123909
Yasu was trash. Okay, I'll forgive the fact that it's a disappointing revelation but Ryukishi could have at least given him a better motivation than "Battler talked to him that one time" to do all that dumb shit.
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>>148123997
>Ange should've complained to a teacher

>implying that teachers are willing to intervene to stop bullying.

You're cute anon. Please don't ever grow up.
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>>148124081
I think you're wrong about all of your points but I don't really care to write out paragraphs desu. I found my satisfaction out of Umineko and you didn't like it. I'm fine with that.
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>>148124130
>h-he was supposed to be poorly written

Absolutely hilarious
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>>148124132
The real fucking puzzle is why Battler didn't freak out and cry more when he figured it all out

"YOU KILLED THEM ALL FOR THAT ONE FUCKING TIME WHEN WE WERE KIDS YASU YOU CUNT"
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>>148124132
That's the point, Yasu is a delusional piece of trash. If he didn't get so glorified in EP8 with Battler marrying his fursona, it'd have been perfect.

>>148124177
Good writing isn't measured by the morale quality of your characters.
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How is that Alice game btw?
Release was month ago, but i saw no discussion.
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>>148124177
Yasu wasn't poorly written at all. There are scenes way back in episode 2 that give him characterization. Hell, every single scene with Shannon and Kanon gives some characterization to the kind of person he is, and I think it's really well done.
>>
>>148124158
Again, proving me right. Just like Ryukishi, can't actually deliver and just backs down. Thanks desu.
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>>148124227
Your welcome.
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>>148124142
It's not bullying, it's triggering someone's trauma. Ange would've just needed to cry and roll on the ground until a school worker picked her up, and then they'd expell the culprits.

Also, teachers might not get implicated but directors and all that stuff will often try to get people to talk and solve things. real life experience too
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>people who unironically think Higurashi is better than Umineko
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>>148124217
I heard that the trial scene was good, the rest was bad, and it was overall very, very short
>>
What the point of reading Umineko if you don't like anything? It's not 10 hours long VN. It's big as fuck. What the point of wasting so much time? Especially if you just want to arguing in threads. Looks pathetic
>>
>>148124209
>why didn't Battler freak out more

Bad writing. How many times do I need to point out the obvious. Like I've been saying, it's okay to enjoy Umineko. If you liked it, fine. But it's another thing to say it had good writing. That's almost laughable at this point.

>>148124219
>guy talked to me once
>okay Im gonna be crazy now

Wow! What an amazing character. It must have taken him years just to come up with Yasu's story. And on top of that instead of Battler who was potentially a decent main character we just had to get Ange instead. The meta battles can be pretty interesting on paper but I think it actually hurt Umineko more now that we know what the outcome is.
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>>148124328
>unironically thinking that False narrator; the game is better then a universally beloved VN

Back to /jp/ with you
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>>148124375
>But it's another thing to say it had good writing
No there's a lot of good writing in Umineko. But the bad writing takes over from times to times and it gets worse in Chiru. That's why we have a few anons with a hateboner for Umineko here, including me, because we loved it at first until it started fucking us in the ass with cheap choices and messages.
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>>148124383
Higurashi is good, but Umineko is still better.
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>>148124227
>I don't like thing. It was terrible.
>Actually I enjoyed it.
>PROVE IT
>Well, I don't want to spend time writing out a long post detailing the things I enjoyed about it just so you can try to pick them apart and refute them.
>Then you didn't enjoy it. I win.

Okay senpai.
>>
>>148124328
Honestly, it's subjective. But at least Higurashi's main cast was fleshed out, unlike Umineko's. Each of them got a story arc. And Higurashi was a lot more fun, never as pretentious as Umineko.

>>148124352
Umineko did have enjoyable parts, no one is denying that. It's okay to eat junk food or watch b movies once in a while. But saying it has good writing is another thing.
>>
>>148124469
Higanbana > Higurashi > Rose Guns Days >= Umineko
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>>148124331
>very short
vndb saying it's at least 10+ hours.
I will check out trial version i guess.
>>
>>148124486
>they never reconciled
>they are just cold dead corpse rotting in the ground
>they never learnt to appreciate each other
Man this sucks

>>148124532
>Higanbana
Better them Umineko, worse then Higurashi, but better then RGD
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>>148124486
What's your point about enjoying it? I've been saying it's okay to enjoy it. Saying it's objectively good in terms of writing is where it gets ridiculous. Anyone can enjoy anything. I can enjoy taking a shit. I can enjoy walking. Doesn't really mean anything.

You don't have valid arguments about Umineko's shitty writing and I enjoy that.
>>
>>148124583
It's a good thing Rosa's dead. She was a huge bitch. At least Eva didn't fuck up her son.
>>
>>148124375
You are simplifying the motive down too much. It was never about Battler as a person. It was about Battler as an idea. In Yasu's eyes, she looked at Battler as a person who would come to her and lift her up off her feet on a horse and ride off to the sunset. Yasu looked to Battler as a dream of someone who would come rescue her.

It's unrequited love, and I think that is a pretty good motive for a lot of things. George (who had his eye on Shannon for a long time) tried starting a relationship with Yasu, so Yasu ended up going along with it in order to keep her mind off of Battler. She also developed Kanon as a result of the way her body developed, and as such attracted the attention of Jessica who was looking for a boyfriend. As time went on this created a lot of conflicting feelings with Yasu, and her life got progressively more fucked up, she descended into self-loathing a lot (which she used Kanon to vent with), this ultimately culminates to her finding out that she's an incest child and nobody told her and that Battler is coming back which ends up really setting her off.

It's a well done culprit because it reflects several of the characters in the story. Jessica puts on a persona for her parents to hide who she really is in the same way George puts on a persona for Eva to try and be a person that he really is not.
It's also something we can all identify with. We all put on personas for others to hide who we really are inside, because we are scared if people ever found out the truth about the real us, they would end up rejecting us. I think that is something easy to identify with.

I have no idea why I wrote all of this out.
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>>148124604
You don't have any arguments too. Except buzzwords and tags. He's right pretty much
>so you can try to pick them apart and refute them.
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What really happened that day on October 4th, 1986?

Will we ever know the truth? The whole truth?
>>
>>148124214
>that's the point, Yasu is delusional

He wasn't really that crazy before. Then Battler talked to him. It's a poor, uncreative, underwhelming motivation no matter how you look at it.

>morale quality

It's not the morale, its about how forced the character is and how insulting it is to read such a shitty justification of the murders.
Oh, he did bad thing! Why? Because a guy talked to him. Anyone over the age of 12 would see the stupidity in this but I guess Ryukishi really did succeed in capturing the pseudo intellectuals.
>>
>>148123530
>Yasu's motivation is poorly written, makes no sense and dumb.
They make more sense in the manga, though.

Definitely less sense in ep VII, I agree.
>>
Is it really fine to celebrate Erika's birthday today? I'm conflicted about this every year. I know we don't have any more information, unless I'm missing something, but it's still the day she starts serving Bern rather than her actual birthday, which seems kinda off to me. I want to know her real birthday.
>>
>>148124763
Maybe in Ryukishi's suicide note.
Which will never be made available to the public.
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>>148124684
>people put on personas
This message was simply not worth Yasu. Because Yasu breaks the fucking story something fierce. It boils down to making the story nearly broken by constant and insentient false narrations. Most of Umineko is straight wrong.

>>148124763
Yes.

DESIRE, and that's it.

>>148124778
>it makes sense in the X

Literally SAO/AoT tier defence.
>>
>>148124765
>He wasn't really that crazy before. Then Battler talked to him. It's a poor, uncreative, underwhelming motivation no matter how you look at it.
He gradually gets more and more fucked up. At first it's just some religion "God will do everything for me" bullshit, then it gets more and more serious with delusions, pranks, tulpas, and generally antisocial behavior. Yasu is fucked up and you get to see how fucked up he is in detail.
It's a really petty motive for murder, but Yasu's twisted logic is very well shown.
>>
>>148124721
Read the thread. And buzzwords is itself is a buzzword. You can't dismiss an argument by saying one word. Prove why Yasu is a great character. Prove why "feelings over logic" is good.

I'll wait.


>>148124763
Ryukishi literally gave 2 endings because he didn't have faith in himself that he can write a good ending. Funny thing is both endings were still shit.
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>>148124825
I don't know what you are talking about, the manga explains her mindset so it's more easy to understand that ep VII piss party.
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>>148124850
Yes, but it's fucking shithouse writing. Just because it's there doesn't make it good.

Compare Yasu's revelations to Keiichi's paranoia breakdown in Onikakushi. There is no fucking comparison, Yasu's stuff looks like hot rubbish in comparison.
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Kinzo is shit, but George takes the cake.
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>>148124825
People were able to figure out ShKanon before it was revealed, so I don't think it breaks the story.
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>>148124763
Big bombs.
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>>148124929
One guy who was laughed at for being retarded

Then the author did it

and everyone laughed at it for being retarded
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>>148124929
>People were able to figure out ShKanon before it was revealed, so I don't think it breaks the story.
People were suspecting Shkanon, but we dismissed it because it literally a twist any 10 years could come up and required a MASSIVE amount of suspension of disbelief.
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>>148124922
These two things are very different though. Not much comparison to be made between them. Yasu is delusion, Keichi is more like self-defense/fear (and it's really well done here too, you can feel how savage he gets because of his will to live, and you can empathize with it).

My point is, these two characters are good. And while Beato wanking fucked Chiru, Yasu in himself (EP7) is a well-written character. One of the highlights of Chiru I'd say.
>>
>>148124850
>he gradually gets more and more fucked up

But we saw things from his perspective and he wasn't all that twisted before. Reread the Yasu chapters and you'll see what I mean. Even the way he acted and talked, wasn't the kind of person that would do all of those things. It just feels so forced and illogical.

Saying "he was fucked up" is such a lazy and shitty motive. And there's no defending this, only denying it.
>>
>>148124968
>>148125005
Are you butthurt because you were wrong?
>>
>>148124763
see>>148121000
>>
>>148125084
I wrote down my interpretaion of Yasu's motive here
>>148124684
maybe that could be more satisfying for you
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>>148125051
The basis for comparison is that Yasu's revelations are convoluted garbage and his earlier works did the revelationary re-read much, much better.

>highlights of Chiru
I mean, a car crash does have interesting bits I guess

>>148125086
I wasn't particularly wrong, I thought it was a 'furniture' theory, that it was the servants all along. Although I had it that they were doing it as Shanon, Kanon etc and not one character fooling everyone
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>>148125084
I don't remember it that way. IIRC, Yasu was a decent person before the Battler thing, probably a bit of a doormat but mostly innocent. After the Battler debacle he starts doing delusional stuff with God and all (not sure if the God thing was before Battler too). He attributes his bad experiences to fictional characters and eventually creates an imaginary friend because he's stubborn and because of his stubborness, lonely. It keeps escalating without getting down, probably because of the Kinzo reveal that happens later.
I'm okay with that. There's substance. You can see how he gets from point 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc. It's not just talking to Battler, it's a string of bad choices and malpractices with no adult oversee to put him back on track and too much stubborness to question his own actions.
>>
>>148124922
Completely agree with this. Higurashi had so much better writing than Umineko. On top of that, it was more entertaining and the main cast was actually full developed.

>>148125051
I'm getting tired of going in circles so I'll just say this.

1. Yasu is garbage. His motivations made no sense and ruins all the buildup/all the potential of the story.

2. Ange is a bland Mary Sue and the fact that she replaces Battler as MC really brought the story down even more. She has no personality and she wins just with feelings like a generic shounen manga character.

3. Ryukishi making 2 endings really confirms the fact that he coudn't make a satisfying ending to all this and he knew he needed to pander. Umineko was a mess the whole way through. Even though it had enjoyable parts, the overall writing is bullshit.
>>
>>148125280
I'm not a Umineko wanker, I just think Yasu was the last bit of good writing Umineko had and a well-implemented concept after the shitfest of EP6.
>>
>>148125328
Strange, most try to say that Yasu is bad but the ending is good.

Either way, as long as everyone laughs over the trainwreck that is 8 it's all good
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>>148125086
>Are you butthurt because you were wrong?
I heard Carr and Christie all the time. I don't get the culprit right often.

But I'm hardly ever mad. Can you guess why?
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The writing of Umineko may be bad on some points, but at least it gave us Erika
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>>148125507
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>>148124763
Battler was stalking Eva because he always secretly lusted for her. Eva managed to solve the riddle and found the gold. Then she continued through the passageway to the other mansion.

Battle was following her but then came across the old boats down below and decided to check them out because he's a guy and boats are cool.

The bombs underneath the island started exploding. This is because they were very old and growing unstable. A piece of debris hit Battler in the head, knocking him out (and giving him amnesia). It also managed to into the boat, which slowly drifted out to sea. The rest of the bombs went off killing everyone but Eva.

What happened on October 4th 1968 was merely a giant accident. Everyone was killed by the bombs that went off on their own. Eva only survived because she decided to explore the island and Battler only survived because he was horny and decided to creepily stalk his sexy as fuck aunt around.
>>
>>148124916
You have already decided in your mind that Umineko is a shit game so any arguments people bring up will be useless. You don't seem that willing to change your mind, and that's alright, but it would be a waste of time to put a lot of effort just for you to dismiss entire posts. We have different opinions. You hated Umineko, and I liked it.
>>
We get it, you don't like Umineko. Every thread you people point out the same things everyone has heard a million times before. It's an Umineko thread, can we actually talk about positive things about this series instead of jerking off around the same flaws pointed out every time? Why keep bringing it up? Why does it matter?
>>
>>148125565
You don't pay attention unless someone's being contrarian. Why would they?
>>
>>148125565
We get it, you like Umineko. Every thread you people circlejerk over the same things, rehashing the same memes everyone has seen a million times before. It's another Umineko thread, can we actually think about the series using critical thinking instead of jerking off around the same waifu's pointed out eveyr tine> Why keep posting Erika? Why does she matter?
>>
>>148125550
t. Eva
>>
>>148125366
I mean, the problem with the ending for me is how it tries to shove a bad message in your throat. If you don't chose magic, you have to become a nihilistic murderer. This and all the Beatrice enabling shit.

But Yasu in himself is just a character who does bad things for everyone including him. If this is well implemented, I have no reason to complain.
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>>148125565
This. It's so fucking bizarre. I've never seen a series where people have such hateboners for something than I have with umineko.
>>148125643
People have been bringing up arguments, though. It seems like nothing anyone says is changing anyone's mind. Some people really like the series and some don't.
>>
>>148125280