lazy animator tricks

CG

>Berserk
>animated

>>146650219
>I just noticed that they'll cover a mouth with a shadow so they don't have to anime the talking

That's literally not a thing. You don't have to do much to animate mouth movement, just three frames and call it a day.

>>146650942
Yeah, I'm also sick of seeing coconut guns everywhere. It's turned from a tool to a shortcut.

>>146651405
You seriously underestimate how lazy/underbudget some studios are

They save frames where they can, it all adds up

Shortcuts are not inherently lazy.

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>>146651780

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The classic

>>146651999
>trips
Fuck that was awkward as fuck.

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If you need to save money just use markers for color. It looks more artistic.

>>146651841
They're not. There's plenty of reasons why someone would use a shortcut without just being lazy.

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>>146652310

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>>146650219
>>146651841
>>146652358
Ever tried animating something? Or even educating yourself in the topic? Don't complain about shit you know nothing about.

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>>146652469
>you have to be an animator to know when an animator is being lazy

>>146652358
You know what's lazy? Just posting a reaction image instead actually responding to someone.

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>>146652556
It is but at least I won't deny it.

Gundam used pink ink for explosions because it was cheap and they didn't use it for much else
Bright's hair turns green sometimes in 0079/Zeta/ZZ because they kept on running out of black ink, they used a ton of it making all the space backgrounds in the show

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>>146652548
assume it's true, why would I want to put in effort for fags like you? is the IP sells, then effort itself is not needed.

>>146652718
if*

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>>146652718
>effort itself is not needed.

I never implied it was. Some of the best selling anime shows employ shortcuts all the time. I just like noticing them.

>>146651999
What about this?

>>146650942

>CG
>hiding the mouth

doubly lazy

>>146650219
>What are some tricks you notice lazy animators use?
Shaft's powerpoint presentations they like to pass off as animation.

>>146652664
I heard before that Sunrise purchased too much pink paint and wanted to get rid of their stockpile. VOTOMS also had pink explosions and, later in the series, the enemy Scopedogs start using a pink color scheme which looks fruity as heck.

Speed lines

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6wyk5tGYTjY

>>146652266
I really wish there was a show that did something like this. The closest I can think of is a few shorts, and Kaguyahime. It looks fucking great.

>>146655362
You mean fucking terrible.

>>146654487
>4.5 minutes with only maybe 20 actual frames of animation

impressive

>>146650219
>characters are walking
>feet are not visible
>it's just a still image of the characters upper bodies being moved side to side

>>146651999
I introduced my friend to Eva and he was caught off guard when the scene continued because he thought I paused it

>>146655482
Yes, the fact that it still looks good is quite impressive. That is the proof of a good team. Making a lot with a little.

>>146652664
Let's leave the 80s shows alone in this. Nothing they did in that period was easy.

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>>146656696
I'm not picking on em, I was just bringing it up since it was related to the thread

>>146655438
You have pretty bad taste man.

>>146652548
>I have to work based on a budget and take shortcuts while using methods to save as much money as possible
>Nah, you're lazy as fuck

Alright.

>>146655517
this never happens

>>146656880
wageslave animatorcuck detected

>>146656565
It didn't look good.

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>>146656925
Maybe I didn't describe it well, ESLfag and all, but I meant something like this

>>146651999
Isn't EVA infamous for a bunch of stuff like this?

>>146656978
>Extremely competitive job
>Wage slave

I highly doubt any animator would actually be lazy in that kind of situation. Japan has really great work ethics.

>>146657113
>competitive
>implying they don't just shit out korean animatorcucks left and right

it was probably much more competitive 20 years ago when computers weren't involved

>>146657063
christ now that's literal corner cutting

>>146655482
Well technically they used more than 20, but still a small amount for 4 minutes
>>146657038
You're wrong

>>146657160
It's what happens when an anime production is really poorly scheduled.

>>146657113
>Japan has really great work ethics
literally laughed IRL

>>146657195
>You're wrong

He isn't.

It's visually incredible boring.

>>146657205
Maybe you should do real research.

>>146650219
>they don't bother animating jaw movement, unless it's a profile view, occasionally

I've come to accept it. Funnily enough, people bitch about Killer Queen but I noticed they ALWAYS animate jaw movement in Jojo. Even Kyoani usually doesn't bother.

>>146657294
ah yes all those hours of undocumented overtime and """optional""" time coworkers

>>146657308
It's kinda jarring when a show is 90% mouth flaps but then has actual proper facial movement in a scene.

>>146657276
Ei Aoki isn't a very good director.

>walkingaroundincircles.gif

>>146657359
I mean, I can understand that some designs just don't gel well with proper facial movement. It's not like Samurai Jack moved his chin when he deigned to speak either.

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I noticed an increasing amount of animators like to draw very simple-looking effects these days. Smoke is drawn with simple forms that has either basic two tones or even one, in a basic shape and then debris tends to get drawn as blocky shapes instead of pieces that break off in a way that makes sense.

>>146657591
isn't that just the webgen style?

>>146657113
>Japan has really great work ethics
The teaching job can't be THAT good, Ken-sama.

>>146657651
Whatever it is, it looks lazy and unappealing.

>>146657591
i fucking hate what digital animation has done to the industry
animators are getting lazier every single day, what the fuck is going on

>>146650219

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNnL9hSEBU

>>146657836
There isn't a single pre-digital TV anime that's as well animated as Mob Psycho.

>>146657922
weak bait

>Item (usually a Kimono/Yukata) has a complicated pattern on it
>Pattern stays perfectly still on the screen while the item moves around
It annoys me

I find this in-fucking-excusable.
https://youtu.be/BBAJdtPVnZc

>>146657962
It's true though. The best-animated TV anime come from the modern era. Great animation in old anime is more easily found in movies and OVAs.

>>146657977
Annoyed me too but I kinda learnt to love it with Gankutsuou

Every anime: tons of pans and scans with the only animation being lip flaps.

>>146658115
That's more due to limited resources than laziness though.

>>146657836
Why do you think it's the fault of digital animation rather than the animators themselves?

>>146657962
Not even b8ing. It's one of the few anime that actually makes use of the 12 principles, can't say that about your precious MUH SHADING OVA's.

>>146658209
OVAs look way better than Mob Psycho trash tho.

>>146658209
Pretty sure the average anime demonstrates the 12 principles to an extent for them to qualify as animated work. You may argue some of the principles may not be well-executed, but they're there nonetheless.

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Record of Lodoss War was a beautiful looking picture book.

>>146658209
If you include OVAs then Mob Psycho is not as good looking as a lot of shows. Mob Psycho is very good looking for a tv anime, but OVAs are not tv anime, so you shouldn't be comparing them just as you wouldn't be comparing to to something like an Oshii movie where the animation is on a very high standard.

>>146658209
>muh 12 principles
Go b2Disney films, you fag.

OVAs were released in a monthly or annual format.
It wasn't a good time.

Doesn't help that most of them looked pretty bad.

>>146658325
Meant to say
>Mob Psycho is very good looking for a tv anime that aren't made by KyoAni

>>146658293
it was animated better than anything kyoani has done

>>146658325
Mob Psycho, or any of the best TV shows can go toe-to-toe with the best of old OVAs.

>>146658401
>lodoss
>animated

>>146658293
Lodoss was interesting in that regard. The reason for there being a lot of stills is pretty simple. The character designs are some of the most advanced I've ever seen, really detailed. If there were to be a lot of movement, the douga would've taken ages, which is not something they could've afforded on an OVA. I liked the overall feel the anime had, specially the stuff Matsumoto animated, but I gotta agree that the amount of stills made me lose a bit of interest.

>>146658293
It Lodoss worth the watch? I only watched Legend of Crystania.

>>146658352
Disney animators mastered 2D animation, their approach to animation is sound and remains a great guide for the right approach to animating even today.

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>>146658469
>disney
>mastering anything
If you still truly believe that any western animated production is better than Japanese animation at it's height, you're insane. The Japanese mastered 2D, no one else has.
Pic related must be you.

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>>146650219
I don't think they are lazy most of the time, just highly constrained by time and money which forces them to cut from every corner and input as little frames as possible for everything else other than main scenes.

Having loadsa money on the other hand is harmful as well and is the main cause of laziness.

Having more time never hurts, but generally speaking things need to be in balance, not too much money or too much time nor the opposite of it.

>>146658420
If we're talking visuals in general than sure, but if we're talking purely animation wise then there's simply a lot more movement in a lot of those polished OVAs. Even the 90s SDC OVAs are more frequently hitting the highs that Mob does, and I don't even consider that to be one of the best animation-wise. Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying Mob and it is very fun to look at, but you can't deny that it's not quite on the same level as, y'know, some of the greatest examples of animation coming from japan.

>>146658462

Yes. Surprisingly more plot than you'd expect, too.

>>146658557
>Even the 90s SDC OVAs are more frequently hitting the highs that Mob does
I'd say Mob has more impressive highs than Stardust Crusaders, though I agree the latter was well-made.

>>146658534
The only thing Japanese 2D animation better than their western counterparts is action. In terms of character animation and effects, the westerners do it much better.

>>146658678
Name one instance where this is true.
The Japanese have far superior backgrounds, which is something you cannot refute.
Character animation is debatable, but movies such as GitS and Metropolis excel in that regard.

>>146658678
You're forgetting that everydisneyshit etc has had a lot of time and money.

>>146658678
>westerners
>animating

>>146658678
I remember reading an article on this. But basically, in the west (note: Not in shows animated in Korea, made in the west), they have so much time to work on shit, that they can almost always use the animation to convey everything. In Japan, they time they have to produce things is much shorter, so they rely a lot more on composition, good storyboarding and visuals to tell the story.

>>146657091
IIRC there's a scene where Rei and Asuka are on an elevator and were stuck on the same frame for like a minute, not saying a word.

>>146658469
Disney animators were very good at what they did, however what they did was a fairly specific thing that has little in common with modern anime.

>>146658730
Both Japanese and Western productions have shown their fair share of great background art. The background art in Bambi and Sleeping Beauty come to mind as far as western productions go.

GitS and Metropolis have got good examples of character animation, but nothing beats the expressiveness and "acting" range of the best Disney 2D animators. The very best of them approached their work like actors would and really aimed to get into the mindset of the character they were animating.

>>146658827
>disney animators
>good at anything
lol

>>146658678
>sad state of current western TV cartoon (due to all the fucking teen shows they are interested in)
>In terms of character animation and effects, the westerners do it much better.
Am I really reading this?

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Too bad Western shows lack the basicas of direction and framing.

>>146658849
>interested in
*meant "spewing out"*

>>146658827
The only good and innovative Disney stuff were the early works.

After Disney they just mass produced animation.

>>146658849
It's true if we're talking about the very best each industry has to offer.

>>146658877
Japan has produced more quality stuff than anywhere else though.

>>146658792
And in plenty of scenes the speaker's face is out of shot -- there's that scene where they're talking while leaning against a wall, and whichever is speaking, the shot is from their side and you see them tits to hips only.

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what went wrong?

>>146658850
I'm not saying I disagree, but could you tell me what's actually supposed to be so good about the direction in your image? It's reasonably unique (it's kind of similar to that one guy at Shaft but he might very well have directed Penguindrum, I don't remember), but apart from that I'm not really seeing it.

>>146654487
>Those comments

Jesus

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>>146658973
Digital made it easier for unqualified animators to get into the business.

>>146650219
Is that Jan Paweł 2?

>>146656978
>>146657113
Work ethics actually doesn't come into play here. Animators are usually paid per frame drawn, but studios are only willing to pay for so many frames because the production company only paid them that much money. If anything, animators would prefer to draw as many frames as they can, because they'd get paid more.

Time constraints are an important factor too. It takes about a month to create a single full-length episode for a weekly TV anime. Consider what that means for the production.

>>146659073
Animation isnt done digitally.
Genga and Douga is still done traditionally (except for a few exceptions, like some animators I know work exlusively digital, but since the pipeline is still for traditional, they say that its a lot more work to get their stuff inbetweened since stuff needs to be printed to be inbetweened traditionally).

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Excessive deformation or smearing during any fast motion comes across as a cop-out by the animators. Rather than taking time to properly depict forms and have careful timing they just smear their way through any fast movements and call it a day.

>>146652266
Dude, this fucking markers actually cost a fuckton.

>>146659115
A month is on the short side, IIRC Thomas Romain said the average was around 6 weeks, no?

>>146659201
No that's not how it works at all. Smearing is done to give more weight and speed into the animation with a limited frame count per second. Sometimes it just won't look fast with the usual 12fps anime works with without it.

>>146659201
bait

>>146659155
A full digital pipeline isn't commonplace, but the industry is slowly heading there. The studio behind this season's Time Travel Shoujo is using fully digital key animation, even if they don't mention it.

>>146650942
Wow! animators are in charge of CGI now? Anime is advancing faster and faster.

>>146659335
That's fine and all, but too many animators these days make their smears too obvious. You can use smearing without it being so in-your-face.

>>146659352
>The studio behind this season's Time Travel Shoujo is using fully digital key animation, even if they don't mention it.
Really? Do you have a source on that?

>>146657113
There are too little animators though, this is the biggest hamstring right now in productions, and the actual reason CGI is becoming so prevalent.

>>146658846
Regardless of what you think of Disney movies, you've got to admit that technically they're very well done. There's a lot of difficult to animate movement and (maybe because Disney had ridiculous budgets compared to the Japanese) animated the majority of shots on 1s and 2s.

Btw, ever heard of Disney's nine old men? Check out the stuff they did.

>>146659382
There's nothing wrong with being obvious about it.

>>146659450
Yes there is.
it used to be subtle, now it's just obvious and annoying.

The issue is that there's too many anime being pumped out seasonally nowadays there is barely enough time and especially not enough talented and well paid animators to make all of them look nice. Most of anime is done on a shoestring budget and everything is just drawn as fast as possible and with a "eh it's good enough, no one will care"-mentality.

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>>146650219
excluding details and basic anatomy

>>146659395
Sorry, I remembered wrongly. The interview said the studio was experimenting with full digital key animation, but they don't have a full pipeline ready. Studio Colorido does though.

>>146659243
I can imagine that the switch to HD and the resulting pressure to increase the amount of detail could have bumped the duration to 6 weeks.

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>>146658844
Their 90s movies have great backgrounds, too

>>146659620
those backgrounds aren't even in the movie

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>>146659637
?

>>146659637
are you a genuine retard

>>146659673
>>146659714
it looks like fucking shit

>>146659450
Obvious smears are for wannabe animators who post their works on the internet.

>>146658844
>The background art in Bambi and Sleeping Beauty come to mind
The original art director/production overseer for Sleeping Beauty actually ordered the painters to make the backgrounds more detailed to fit the aesthetic he had planned but he resigned before the movie was completed and the detail was toned down again. Bambi's visuals were based on concept art painted by a chinese immigrant who drew heavily from the traditional hazy landscape stuff done with ink that was popular in east Asia before western influences.

>>146658761
>in the west (note: Not in shows animated in Korea, made in the west), they have so much time to work on shit, that they can almost always use the animation to convey everything.
You're talking about feature films, though. Animating entirely on 1s is no laughing matter.

>>146658876
You can point out the mass producing of animation by the time they had to report losses after releasing Sleeping Beauty.

Shitloads of bloom just like those video games.

>>146660114
>a chinese immigrant

holy shit he's 105 years old

>>146652777
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

>>146660344
Chinese stronk.

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>>146660270
The one and only Disney waifu.

Here's the solution:
Western writer, japanese animation and direction.
The Japanese are diligent and prideful about their animation but even when they have all the money in the world they usually aren't the best at writing a compelling plot or balancing an audience. Western writers.

>>146651999
I don't watch eva.

Explain this please

>>146660560
Western writers would work better for more believable or compelling action.

But when it comes to emotional stuff Japs just shine better, maybe because they weren't as restricted to work with controversial stuff as Western writers still are.

>>146660615
That shot goes on for like a minute or something.

>western writers

Sure, outside of Tumblrbait there isn't anything remarkable.

>>146660560
One correction: change "Western" to "European".

>>146660622
>But when it comes to emotional stuff Japs just shine better
You're referring to just animation, right?

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>>146660722
I thought Europe was part of the West?

Or did Murikka procalim themselves as Western culture all of a sudden?

Anyways, 80's stuff looks damn nice to this day. I recommend wathcing the anime omnibus called Memories

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>>146660746
Writing wise as well.

Closest thing I can come up with from Western writers is Oban Star Racers, and writer specifically noted anime as his main inspiration.

>>146661019
90s > 80s

>>146661042
I'm talking about animated media, because there are a shitload of live-action stuff that do it better.

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>>146661049
Early 90's was the hot shit. Too bad the bubble economy burst and now we're left with QUALITY deadlines.

>>146657591

> Complains about the simplistic style of smoke
> post a Mob Psycho example where it's the intended outcome

>>146659369
CG animator is still called animator though.

>>146659340
The excessive part is the problem. You use smearing to make the objects more dynamic. You don't have to draw in a very simplistic way to achieve that.

>>146658462
>Legend of Crystania
Jesus Christ, why would you do that.

>>146661081
>Too bad the bubble economy burst
Indeed.

No money -> shit pay -> poor career opportunities -> people don't study animation -> small circle of pros -> most shows look like garbage -> people quit watching

>>146659781
>realizes he's retarded
>hurr durr better insult good art :DD

>>146659030
That's Ikuhara, not Shinbo.

That said I hate them both.

>>146661049
Nah 80s all the way

>>146659614
I doubt HD would effect it, shows haven't gained any small details only have a sharper image. Perhaps rendering time on their little Nip computers would be a factor, but there would be little different in animating in HD and SD. In fact if it is all digital now the process would almost certainly be faster.

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>>146661921
Go watch a typical show from say, 2003, and compare. It depends on the show of course, but on average the amount of detail has definitely increased, particularly the way the eyes are drawn.

Also, I forgot about this, but there's a lot more stuff happening in compositing nowadays. Gradient shading, coloured lines with gradients in them, for example. Compositing/photography which used to be done by a couple of people are now done by teams with sizes rivalling the animators' and presumably take much longer too.

The adventage of digital photography in anime

https://twitter.com/jimmygnome9/status/697867964578717696

>>146657922
Have you ever seen any pre-digital TV anime?
>What's Versilles no Bara?
>What's Saint Seiya?
>What's Yoroiden Samurai Troopers?
>What's Slayers?
>What's Patlabor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNnL9hSEBU

>>146652594
>>146652548
So do you actually believe a group of animators are working on something then they all agree 'eh we could afford to make this better, but I really just don't want to, so fuck it'? Like, that they get bored of working and quit? Not that every hour worked and resources have to be paid for, they just quit because it's too hard?

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>>146653843

Are you for real? I guess lens flares and blush stickers are lazy too then.