[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | | Home]

Why does god allow evil to exist?

This is a blue board which means that it's for everybody (Safe For Work content only). If you see any adult content, please report it.

Thread replies: 288
Thread images: 44

File: ev.jpg (42KB, 500x198px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
ev.jpg
42KB, 500x198px
Why does god allow evil to exist?
>>
>>146523728
Because god doesn't exist
>>
>>146523782
You can't prove that
>>
>>146523782
/thread
>>
>>146523808
And you can't prove he's wrong.
>>
File: 1416288092407.jpg (117KB, 547x1280px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1416288092407.jpg
117KB, 547x1280px
If evil is bad, why is Homura so attractive?

Checkmate christfags.
>>
There is no evil. Only God can decide which things are evil.
>>
>>146523728
Because evil is necessary to glorify God. It is not a question of morality, it is a question of divinity and ultimate command over reality, Divine Command. "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
"

If you go to Hell, you were always going to go to Hell. It's not a matter of good or evil, because Divine Command alone determines what is truly good and if God demands that evil's existence is good, then it is His command.
>>
Can't wait for MamiKami to wreck Homura in the new film/series.
>>
Evil is just humans' inability to comprehend God's intent.
>>
File: 1472472645943.jpg (25KB, 400x305px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1472472645943.jpg
25KB, 400x305px
>>146523829
Best girl stuck in the worst series
>>
>>146523808
If he existed and was omnipotent as people claim he is, then why people saying he's good? so whats the point of omnipotence if he created this world? Evil or good?

Check mate
>>
>>146523728
>>146523782
Like a chaos god from warhammer, god exists and created life just to watch it suffer for his amusement.
>>
>>146523922
Just as a person may forget to pull out and create an accidental child, God may have also forgot to pull out and created an accidental child. We may not have a purpose at all.
>>
>>146523728
with out evil it no good.
>>
>>146523728
Evil has to be allowed to exist as a direct consequence of allowing free will.
>>
>>146523898
Why would I worship a malevolent God who allows suffering and evil to roam and hurt his children?
>>
>>146523975
But free will doesn't exist. Everything we do is controlled by factors we don't actually control.
>>
>>146524000
So he doesn't send you to hell.
>>
File: topic_john_calvin.jpg (51KB, 365x268px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
topic_john_calvin.jpg
51KB, 365x268px
>>146524000
You don't need to. Although, if you are of the elect, you will worship him regardless.

>>146523975
Free will is heresy. Evil exists because God has ordained it as the optimum amount of evil in the world.
>>
>>146524001
>But free will doesn't exist.
Correct, but I figured the average /a/theist wouldn't understand the correct phrase, which is "power of volition". So that means that we are able to make choices in situations where alternatives exist.
>>
>>146523956
So he's not omnipotent.

The only way you people can prove his existence without contradiction is by saying there is another omnipotent being, thus couple of omnipotent beings.

It's all in your head, just forget about him and live.
>>
>>146524053
I don't believe in a God. What I said was very blasphemous actually.
>>
>>146524035
>if you are of the elect, you will worship him
Not necessarily. There are elect who may never have heard the Gospel preached effectively (and that's the Calvinist technical term "effectively" there).
>>
>>146524051
It's a atheist idea of making out our own choices too, don't say it like we don't know it.
>>
>>146524051
But we're not able to do that either.
>>
>>146524084
And I was talking about the majority? yes

I don't care either way
>>
File: 1459132832237.png (404KB, 852x538px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1459132832237.png
404KB, 852x538px
Homura isn't evil and Madoka loves her!
>>
>>146524020
But then my reverence to him is only based upon fear, not true love and selflessness.
>>
>>146524112
Sure mate.
>>
>>146524131
Well what's worth more, your dumb sense of integrity or not being tortured for all eternity?

So just do it and quit crying faggot.
>>
>>146524001
>>146524051
This is as stupid as "le tree falls in the forest does it make a sound" tripe.
>>
>>146524051
Wrong.

Everything is within the flow of causality.

If absolute autonomy does not exist, to pretend it does is but intellectual masturbation.

>>146524086
Okay, go and work and be industrious for God then.
>>
>>146523728
God is not a totalitarian dictator
>>
>>146524150
Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it stupid anon, it just means you are.
>>
File: tu.jpg (41KB, 500x280px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
tu.jpg
41KB, 500x280px
>>146524149
>being tortured for all eternity?
Our God sure is a nice fellow ain't he?
>>
>>146524174
At least in the Muslim faith, he appears to be.
>>
>>146524195
He is God. You are nothing, teenager.
>>
File: 08-calvin.jpg (2MB, 3188x2363px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
08-calvin.jpg
2MB, 3188x2363px
>>146524174
Then He is not God. Throw away Roman morality and understand that from humanity's point of view, God will always be merciless.

>>146524195
Humanity is created in God's image. Humans burn ants for fun and kill bulls for fun. That is all there is to it.
>>
>>146524186
>teehee how can sound exist when nobody's around to hear it
Just because you feel smart philosophizing garbage doesn't make it true. The fact that you're quick to call others stupid just confirms your teen pseudo intellectual phase.
>>
>>146524206
buzzwording even about this subject? Very mature
>>
>>146524206
That was a joke you no fun faggot. Your religious autism has nullified your ability to have a bit of a banter.
>>
This thread is retarded.
>>
>>146523728
Because she is god now, obviously.
>>
>>146524230
Buzzwording? Atheists are almost always edgy teenagers. When people grow up they understand that there's probably some kind of creator, even if they're not necessarily christian.
>>
>>146524257
>When people grow up they understand that there's probably some kind of creator
>my opinion encompasses every single being on the planet
Go fuck yourself you delusional religious maniac.
>>
>>146524257
There is no need for a discrete Creator, only a Law, a merciless, unaccommodating, never-relaxed Law.
>>
>>146524218
I wasn't talking about the tree. You're the only one that brought it up. Of course it makes a sound and it's stupid to assume otherwise.


But the reason I called you stupid is because you tried to compare the tree thing to determinism, meaning you think they are both equally stupid, which means you're just too stupid to understand determinism and how free will doesn't truly exist.

Your inability to get that is also another strike against you.
>>
>>146524257
You'd think people would stop believing in imaginary friends when they grow up, not grow into it. Also if you seriously believe in such a sweeping claim then you're retarded.
>>
>>146524257
What? Just because I don't believe there is a creator doesn't mean Im a edgy cunt

I choose not to believe because it's the only logical answer for me and I feel fine with that

Your post is insufferable as the creationist nutjobs
>>
>>146523728
I want to set Kyouko on fire.

FIRE!
>>
>>146524275
Almost everyone on earth believes in God, yes. You will too, in a few years.
>>
>>146524284
The tree will make a pressure wave, but it's only a 'sound' if a person is there to capture it with their ear, and covert it into information with their brain.

That's like saying an apple is red if no eye can see it.
>>
>>146524324
>Almost everyone on earth
You're an idiot.
>>
>>146523728
God's an asshat, she's the type of person who you'll set on fire, and even then she's not worth the match that burns her

I don't know what people see in her
>>
>>146524257
>When people grow up they understand that there's probably some kind of creator

Why?
>>
>>146524284
There are people who would say the same thing to you, that you're stupid for not getting the tree shit. To me you are the same as them, that is a teen pseudo intellectual tryhard. I mean just look at you, unironically acting like a philosophical idea is objectively true. If you were born in the middle east you'd no doubt be blowing yourself up for 72 virgins.
>>
>>146524324
>Almost everyone
Are you retarded or something? It's actually supposed to be the upset

People believed in god, but now with scientific evidence and invention of technological equipment it's hardly to believe
>>
>>146523728
Because he created it. Satan is an angel of God, sent down to test humanity.
>>
>>146524336
>energy only exists in the perception of living things
Get a load of this baka.
>>
>>146523728
Go to /x/ please.
>>
>>146524206
>not believing in a God makes you a teenager
I honestly 100% believe that you are the only teenager in this thread.
>>
Evil is just a word which humam made.
Its definition is inconsistence and not universal.
>>
>>146524364
Things like "sound" and "color" are the brain's interpretation of natural phenomena.

Of course it makes a pressure wave in the air, but without a brain that isn't a sound.
>>
>>146524357
It is objectively true though. Calling me dumb and acting like I'm must copying other peoples ideas (when I'll have you know I thought of this entirely on my own and learned about names for it later) won't prove anything except that you're stubborn.

Go ahead. Tell me what you think free will is and any "proof" you have of it's existence and I'll show you how it's wrong.
>>
>>146524393
So you're just arguing semantics for the sake of being a shit. It's the same thing regardless of whether something is around to detect it. Call it sound, call it a pressure waves in the air, call it a fucking sshmezzldorf it's still the same thing.
>>
>>146523728
He doesn't real
>>
>>146523728
Because god is evil and most religions stem from the assumption that God must be good because the alternative is scary to us so we don't even want to think about it.

Lovecraft was right.
>>
>>146524459
>it's objectively true I'm not wrong the world is!
Right. Also we both know that you're just a zealot looking to self-affirm his beliefs. I'd have no more luck convincing you that determinism is simply an idea and not a universally accepted truth than I would convincing Akmhed that he won't get 72 virgins for blowing himself up in the middle of a French city.
>>
>>146523728
God did create paradise, but humans wanted to be equal to him and created evil.
>>
>>146523728
Because without conflict, the universe stagnates.
>>
>>146524518
Your refusal to even try actually arguing is just making it obvious you know you can't actually do it. Come on I actually want to explain it but you're being no fun.
>>
good and evil are relative
>>
What is it about Homura that attracts autistic moralfags?
>>
File: (You).jpg (421KB, 1156x999px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
(You).jpg
421KB, 1156x999px
>>146524556
>heh cummon bruddah let me hear why you don't believe in the great allah (praise be to his name) and I'll explain to you exactly why you're an infidel who cannot see the true glory of islam
Again, I have no interest in wasting more time on a delusional teen like you. You're insisting an idea is an objective truth and everyone's just too dumb to get it or something unlike you who supposedly unlocked a truth of the universe all by himself, rather than at least trying to argue that your idea is the most credible while still being open to the possibility of being wrong. You are a textbook example of teenage pseudo intellectual who thinks everyone is beneath his intelligence or whatever the fuck. Surely with your impressive intellect you can at least see why arguing against such a person is a waste of time.
>>
The reason why people don't believe in god nowadays is because there are multiply sources about him

One god is dictator, other is misogynistic

Are you just going to be deist then?
>>
>>146523922
Because good and bad are debatable.

You think Ahmed blowing himself up to rid the world of you is evil. Meanwhile Ahmed gets a front row seat with God for doing it
>>
Give me some counterexamples to free will existing
>>
>>146524657
Alright well you're clearly just gonna keep purposely ignoring the issue and being stupid so I'm just gonna explain it anyways on my own. I know you'll just reply to this with more random muslim jokes but I'm sure at least someone will find it interesting.

Free will does not exist. At least not in any kind of significant way. One of the simplest ways to understand this is a simple thought experiment. You're offered 2 bowls of ice cream. 1 chocolate, 1 vanilla. You take the chocolate ice cream, and you think to yourself "I chose this one. I made a decision, this proves I have free will!". But do you really? Try looking one layer deeper, ask yourself why you "chose" chocolate. "Well because I like it better" you might say, but again look another layer deeper. Why do you like chocolate better? Did you choose to like chocolate better? No, you came to develop tastes that prefer chocolate based on your genetics you received from your parents, and from every single experience you've had in life interacting with the world and how it subtly influence your brain to develop a certain way. You didn't have any control over any of these factors, almost like a computer doesn't choose what parts it's built with or how it's programmed.

This relatively simple scenario showcases the principles that you can apply to any situation. Every time you think you're making a decision, just keep looking 1 layer deeper and ask why you made that decision in that way. You will always eventually arrive at some factor you don't actually control. This is how free will does not exist.
>>
>>146523922
Because you live in sin and the wages of sin are death.
>>
>>146524882
Not that anon. My parents love chocolate icecream but I love vanilla and strawberry. Checkmate.
>>
>>146524882
But you wont always choose chocolate ice cream.
>>
>>146524882
>people tends to act according to predefined patterns
No shit sherlock.
>>
>>146524959
Chocolate will always be superior to vanilla though
>>
>>146525001
Chocolate a shit.
>>
>>146524882
I choose randomly the things I like or dislike, which implies free will at finest.

>>146524936
No, you are wrong. You live in world where things by accident happen

''sin'' is just term created to control the mass. Religion made to control the mass, in a bad way anyway

That's it
>>
>>146525044
Dubs don't lie. Vanilla for the win.
>>
>>146524882

>free will doesn't exist in the way it wasn't originally defined to describe

"Free will" refers to the fact we are capable of having conscious thoughts and are able to make choices not that our decisions are influenced by outside factors.
>>
I always knew there was something fucked up about people who liked chocolate ice cream.

Fuckers don't even have free will.
>>
File: 1466843025295.jpg (172KB, 438x704px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1466843025295.jpg
172KB, 438x704px
Sure is Anime & Manga in here
>>
>>146525045
> religion made to control the mass


>cult of reason
>league of the militant godless
>red guard
>juche
>khmer rouge
>atheism plus

North Korea is state atheist
>>
>>146523782
Agnostic here
You just made an assertion
By the definition of burden of proof
You must prove what you asserted

burden of proof
phrase of burden
1.
the obligation to prove one's assertion.

No question begging epithet or question deflection please
>>
>>146523898
Based Calvin. Pretty much the only person who ever got Christianity to make any sense at all, albeit in a rather unpleasant way.
>>
File: ....jpg (100KB, 960x960px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
....jpg
100KB, 960x960px
>>146525116
>he comes to a shitposting thread expecting actual discussion
>>
File: 1423398664378.jpg (112KB, 800x1101px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1423398664378.jpg
112KB, 800x1101px
I've expected fedoras, not theology.
>>
>>146525142
I said ''in a bad way''

>North Korea is state atheist
Nice way of pulling shit out of your arse.
>>
>>146524938
The "checkmate" makes it hard to tell if you're joking or being serious but I'll try to be polite and explain.

First of all I think you need to learn a bit more about genetics before you start getting into philosophy. Genetics do a lot more than just simply copy traits 1 to 1 from your parents. They determine all kinds of things around what you like, dislike, and everything inbetween. Plus humans carry more genes on them than just the ones they exhibit. Plus life experience is also a factor, the 2 work together to subtlety yet absolutely control everything about you.

>>146524959
The choice is irrelevant. Like I said the point is to teach you to always keep looking 1 layer deeper. Whether you choose chocolate 1 day and vanilla the next doesn't matter. Look deep enough any day and you'll eventually see the reasons you chose whatever you did that day are do to factors ultimately out of your control.

>>146524992
I don't think you're even trying to understand what I said.

>>146525045
You either. For one randomness doesn't actually exist either. Two "choose randomly" is a paradoxical statement. And three you can't just say "I chose something so I'm right" when my entire argument is about the fact that choice doesn't truly exist to begin with. You have to define what "choice" is and explain how it exists to argue against me.

>>146525078
But what's going on behind the scenes of those "conscious thoughts"? The brain isn't magic you know. It's just a lump of flesh with a bunch of chemical and electrical reactions going on inside it. And it's not a matter of "decisions being influenced by outside factors". Decisions ARE entirely outside factors.


I feel as if even though the entire point of my post is to ask people to keep looking 1 layer deeper over and over, all any of you did was look 1 layer deeper (or less), think to yourself "Welp that solves that I'm right there's no more to this argument" and posted your snakry replies.
>>
>>146525256
>nice way of pulling shit out of your arse
Are you an idiot?
This isn't hard to look up
The Soviet Union was state atheist
>>
>>146525273
So if I'm about to jerk off but suddenly decide not to that choice was beyond me?
>>
>>146525045
>No, you are wrong. You live in world where things by accident happen
Agnostic here
Can you prove this?
>>
>>146525364
Simply put, yes. All "choices" are beyond everyone.
>>
>>146525345
It wasn't a state of atheism, the leader (stalin) was an atheist but he didn't force he's beliefs on his people. It was back then, now putin he's a an christian, unfortunately.
>>
why do faggots keep trying to draw a deeper meaning out of this crappy show about edgy lesbian teenagers?
>>
>>146525377
The answer is around you, open your door and close it. Sometimes the wind will open it for you.
>>
File: stupid1.png (215KB, 900x431px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
stupid1.png
215KB, 900x431px
Adults with imaginary friends are stupid
>>
>>146525405
Because there is a deeper meaning to everything.
>>
>>146525399
>State atheism was an official policy of anti-clericalism in the Soviet Union and other Marxist-Leninist states. The Soviet Union used the term gosateizm, a syllabic abbreviation of "state" (gosudarstvo) and "atheism" (ateizm), to refer to a policy of expropriation of religious property, publication of information against religion and the official promotion of anti-religious materials in the education system. Governments that have implemented official policies of anti-clericalism oppose religious institutional power and influence in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.

Look up Bezbozhnik
Took only a few minutes to look up
>>
>>146525399
>he didn't force he's beliefs on his people
And the churches fell down themselves, right?
>>
File: 1285124373432.jpg (8KB, 251x200px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1285124373432.jpg
8KB, 251x200px
>>146525393
I guess you had no choice but to be a faggot then.
>>
>>146525497
Anon absolutely BTFO.
>>
>>146525426
You didn't prove what you asserted
You gave me a question begging epithet
Do you have any evidence to support what you asserted?
>>
>>146525524
You want the scientific evidence?
>>
>>146525588
Yes.
I'm Agnostic and if the science matches I'll believe it
>>
>>146525497
And you had no choice in not being intelligent enough to understand anything of what I said, or even to want to try.

So few people can. It gets kind of sad sometimes having to live in this world surrounded by idiots.
>>
>>146525486
>>146525493
Even if they did, it has nothing do to with me not wanting to believe in your god.
>>
File: m'doka.jpg (10KB, 228x222px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
m'doka.jpg
10KB, 228x222px
>>146525613
Jesus christ.
>>
>>146524317
I'll set her pussy on fire
>>
>>146525625
>literally says they hated religion and the religious and actively attempt to stomp it out
>yeah well, that has nothing to do with me

Did you forget you said that North Korea and the Soviet Union were not state atheist and didn't force atheism?
>>
Jesus Chris this thread, what cancer.

Especially, this determinist doublethinker and his perfect scenario.
>>
>>146525631
What, it's true. I tried my best to explain it in the simplest most polite way I could and all anyone wants to do is act stupid, ignore all of it and spam memes at me.
>>
>>146525690
How exactly am I doublethinking and what do you mean by "his perfect scenario".
>>
>>146525697
That's because you're a pretentious retard. Going by your logic, we're all shitting on you because several layers ago we all experienced arguing with stuck-up underage faggots who think they're the next Einstein and how futile arguing was, and so now we have no choice but to shit on you for fun instead. So really you should be blaming all the other fedora teens who came before you rather than us.
>>
>>146525687
They are, okay? Maybe they did it because they are the real edgy fedora kings, I don't know.

People like me can be lack of information aswell

And it's not like we will ever have a state about atheists that don't believe in god, well we have england kinda.

Look I'm not forcing my beliefs on you but it doesn't mean I can't criticize it
>>
Balance
>>
>>146525779
I told you multiple times to look it up
Does your internet search not work?

>it's not like we will ever have a state about atheists that don't believe in god
That's North Korea

>I'm not forcing my beliefs on you but it doesn't mean I can't criticize it
How can you criticize when you don't even know what you're talking about?

A five minute search would have helped you
>>
evil is subjective
and so is good
there is neither pure good nor pure evil

islam is the only true religion
>>
>>146525856
>That's North Korea
I'm talking about civil atheistic state without dictators.
>>
>>146525745
"Life experiences" are far more complex than just simply "I experienced something in the past and now react to it the exact same way in the future" you know.

The human brain is like an incredibly complex computer program that is constantly being reprogrammed at every moment in multiple ways at varying scales. Every moment of your life no matter how unrelated it might be to this situation right now has subtlely changed your brain and changed how it would react right now, not just situations that were extremely similar.

So yeah to some degree you're right. You are all only shitting on me because of your genetics and life experiences. If you had a different set of genetics and life experiences, you'd be reacting differently, right? Just shows what I said was true.

It seems like you care more about getting angry at me and insulting me than actually trying to understand what I'm saying.
>>
>>146525608
Well im no scientist

But there is most definitely an answer for your question, I only have my opinions. Randomness seems logical for me.
>>
>>146526045
Have you ever take a physics class anon?
>>
>>146526067
Yes, does it have something to do with randomness?
>>
>>146526084
More important question.

Have you ever passed a physics class?
>>
File: 1467484062366.png (308KB, 476x471px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1467484062366.png
308KB, 476x471px
>>146526111
I love you anon
>>
>>146523728
Why do mods allow off-topic threads to exist?
>>
>>146526156
Because new mods
>>
File: d021_-_lfzdae008.jpg (251KB, 869x1229px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
d021_-_lfzdae008.jpg
251KB, 869x1229px
>>146526156
I can have a cute cartoon little girl explain it instead if you all want.
>>
File: d022_-_003b004cebk.jpg (205KB, 869x1229px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
d022_-_003b004cebk.jpg
205KB, 869x1229px
>>146526177
>>
>>146526045
Law of causality says otherwise
>>
I challenge anyone's documented god to recreate any miracle that is claimed to be in their bible. If they did it once, surely they can do it again.

I exist, therefore there was never a god.
>>
>>146526177
Are we all computer generated game? This world is fake? Can you prove it's not random? with the evidence that proves randomness?
>>
>>146526208
>I challenge
That was your mistake.
>>
>>146526201
I only believe in what seem logical to me
>>
>>146526218
Yeah anon it's called "physics". That's why I asked if you'd ever passed a physics class before, because if you're just going to deny the existence or validity of things like force, air resistance and surface tension then I'm afraid there's probably just absolutely no point arguing with you about anything.
>>
>>146526227
Apparently I won, no miracles happened.
>>
>>146526208
Did you just use Descartes "I think therefore I am"?
>>
>>146526258
It's logical in the scientific community
Same with the laws of thermodynamics
>>
>>146526267
In a question to another question.

How do you think it's not randomness? Have ever played games based on physics? Just to simulate what physics and randomness actually are.

And it's amazing how you caught me, it's because of my grammar?
>>
File: amazed monkey.webm (3MB, 720x720px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
amazed monkey.webm
3MB, 720x720px
>>146526334
Math.

It's called fucking math anon. That other class you probably didn't pass.

Basically you measure the stuff, it gives you numbers. You take the numbers and shove them into forumulas. You do the adding and the subtracting and all the other stuff you didn't learn and you get more numbers out and the numbers prove stuff.

Then you can take the numbers from the stuff and if you recreate them you can make the same stuff happen.
>>
>>146526273
Agnostic here

The straw man fallacy is also very common, particularly in Theological debates. Think about this one literally. A man made of straw is easy to push to the ground. A real man is harder to push to the ground. What happens in this fallacy is that someone builds up someone else’s position like it’s made of straw, then easily knocks it down. In other words, someone attributes a false position to an opponent, then easily attacks that false position. If he had described the true position, it wouldn’t be so easy to knock down.

Begging the Question (Another atheist fundie favourite)
The begging the question fallacy is sometimes referred to as reasoning in a circle, or circularity. This is because, in this fallacy, the arguer tries to get you to accept the very thing he’s trying to prove. The failed argument essentially looks like this: “If God was great then why…” Said as “If God then X must be true.” However, the terms used are typically clothed in different language so that it doesn’t seem to be repeating the same point. In logical terms, begging the question says the same thing in the premises as it does in the conclusion.
Here’s a common example: “God does not exist because the theists have no proof. And we know that you can never prove a negative.” It is implied that lack of proof is proof (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and a negative can be proven) of no God So this is basically saying, “We know God does not exist because God does not exist.” This is begging the question, reasoning in a circle, assuming what is trying to be proved.
>>
>>146526273
God here.

I'm trolling the shit out of you. You're gonna look like such an idiot and I'll be laughing so hard when you die 2 years 1 month and 4 days from now.
>>
>>146523782
>>146523808
This is the embodiment of all theist vs atheist arguments.
>>
>>146525175
Are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist out of curiosity?
>>
>>146526447
Sometimes you don't get the same result, because everything at random happens, even if you don't know it.

Agnostics should realize it's randomness, if you can't by pass it then it's pointless

Also nice buzzwords
>>
>>146526558
There not such thing agnostic that and agnostic this

There only one agnostic and it's agnostic
>>
>>146526067
Have you ever taken a english class, anon?
>>
>>146526596
Oh, shit. didn't notice his grammar error

Thank you
>>
>>146526588
Let me reword that in a way you can't weasel out of because you either have a strong misunderstanding of those terms or are being intellectually dishonest.

Do you partake in the rituals and acts of a particular religion for the possibility of salvation through that religion, or do you not partake in the rituals and acts of a particular religion for the possibility of salvation through that religion.
>>
>>146526596
>a english class
You did this on purpose, right?
>>
>>146526572
Buddy I try to be civil for as long as I can but this is my limit. You're an idiot, plain and simple. And a big one at that.

Randomness does NOT exist. If something happens differently it's because there was a factor you didn't properly account for and control. Just because you're too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it's magic.

>>146526596
>>146526686
Ha.
>>
>>146526686
I did think about it. I've never heard anyone say "an maths class", for instance. It doesn't matter.
>>
>>146526596
>a english class
Not even that anon, but have you? Also nitpicking grammatical oversights just makes you look like you're attempting to deflect from the argument.
>>
File: 1471996844324.jpg (19KB, 262x274px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1471996844324.jpg
19KB, 262x274px
>>146526558
he's agnostic autistic
>>
>>146526720
Because "math" starts with a consonant, you nigger.
>>
>>146526713
>Just because you're too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it's magic
Randomness is not a concept of magic and everything that is not goes according to randomshit it's creationist mumble bullcrap.

Thank you proving it. We might aswell remove ''random'' from the dictionary
>>
>>146526757
Why?
For pointing out the burden of proof is on those who make assertions?
>>
File: allahu_akbar.jpg (12KB, 480x360px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
allahu_akbar.jpg
12KB, 480x360px
>>146525869
>>
>>146526813
Hey friend, it appears as though you're ignoring trying to answer my question from earlier. I would really appreciate it if you answered it.
>>146526662
>>
>>146526813
How the fuck it's a claim when god doesn't exist? It's hardly to believe that you are an agnostic.
>>
I think I prefer crack shipping, people who don't understand rebellion, and homuhater shitposts over dipshits arguing about religion in a Madoka thread.
>>
>>146526713
>If something happens differently it's because there was a factor you didn't properly account for and control.
You're arguing for a hidden variable theory which is essentially unfalsifiable and absolutely in no way can help prove determinism.
>>
>>146526662
I wasn't this guy, im just curious how the fuck there is all kind of agnostics. There also some kind of atheists I not aware of? I know there is an deist, but what the fuck
>>
>>146526810
Man I wish you were a more fluent english speaker so I could actually make full sense of what you're saying (and you could make sense of mine).

And yes, claiming something is random is magic. For something to be random would mean it is not determined by ANY physical measurable factor. That's impossible, by definition it doesn't exist.
>>
File: 1453039509027.jpg (1MB, 1395x1300px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1453039509027.jpg
1MB, 1395x1300px
>>146526877
Hey, it could be always be worse. We could have both.
>>
>>146526829
No
But being agnostic is knowing you know nothing
You won't see me making assertions I can't back up.

>>146526862
>how dare you not subscribe to my atheistic dogma
Question
How can you have a lack of belief in something you say doesn't exist?
>>
>>146526907
Oh shit. I just notice that I made some grammatical errors.

Well, I'm just trying to sound persistent. That's it


You won the argument. me lose
>>
>>146526943
Because I don't believe in certain stuff?

And believe is just a word to describe things, nothing magical stand behind it.
>>
>>146525175
Eh, the average atheist is unwilling to process details like burden of proof; they just spout out shit left and right and try to shove it down people's throat without concern to honesty or logic, probably because they can't handle a world where people have beliefs that discomfort them.

This is why agnostics are usually like "Live and let live", while atheists sit in their misery bullying the fuck out of everyone who doesn't subscribe to their nasty religion called Atheism.
>>
>>146526907
So you think alien life doesn't exist? That's what I'm getting from you.
>>
>>146527047
I have absolutely no idea how you could have possibly gotten that from anything I've said.
>>
>>146526943
>How can you have a lack of belief in something you say doesn't exist?
I don't believe in flerglehapperhedafdsij (an imaginary creature I just made up right now). Flerglehapperhedafdsij don't exist.

This is just semantics. How are you defining "exist"?

>>146526906
I'll try my best to explain it. Agnostic and gnostic function simply as descriptors to describe two systems of belief in this case. Gnostic means you prescribe to the system with conviction, agnostic without.

A gnostic theist believes 100% wholeheartedly that God exists. An agnostic theist does not but chooses to prescribe to the theistic system a la Pascal's wager. An agnostic athiest is not absolutely certain that there is no God but chooses to live their life as if there was none. Typically when people call themselves Agnostics they mean agnostic atheist but don't want to associate with militant atheist types.
>>
>>146523728
Because love is greater than any god.
>>
>>146527103
What about a love god.
>>
>>146527023
You also make assertions and can't back them up.

It's all a question begging epithet

That's the difference between atheist and agnostic

Atheist demand you prove their lack of belief and that the otherside is wrong

Agnostic admit they dont know everything and that they can't prove the otherwise is wrong
>>
File: 1426958907621.jpg (254KB, 707x1000px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1426958907621.jpg
254KB, 707x1000px
>>146527125
>>
>>146523728
India: 300 millions gods
Japan: 8 millions
Grec:+100
Roman: +100
Viking: 40-50
Others: monotheistic or poly.
Others since the begin of human race, who have faded away because other humans killed/forcibly convert them: innumerable (
billions).

Common point (at least in their head, off public): "My religion is the right one."
>>
>>146526177
>>146526196
Bullshit, we can't replicate anything under the exact same circumstances no matter how much we try. Every event is unique every single time, even if it appears to be exactly the same to another.
>>
>>146527045
Did I bully someone in this thread? Your ''boogiemanis'' is a civil person too. Do you have problem with the lack of belief in god? Why, you afraid to burn in hell of eternity? I don't because it's not real


>>146527102
Thank you for the explanation
>>
>>146527146
You seem to not understand what that phrase means so I'll simplify it for you. "God doesn't exist" means that there is no sufficient evidence or argument currently available for the existence of a God, so I have no reason to accept the premise "God exists" as true and thus for all practical purposes God does not exist i.e. "God exists" is a sufficiently supported premise.
>>
>>146527102
>I don't believe in flerglehapperhedafdsij (an imaginary creature I just made up right now). Flerglehapperhedafdsij don't exist.
What's that got to do with my question?
Seems like a question false dilemma to me
>This is just semantics. How are you defining "exist"?
Ah, question deflection
By using the dictionaries definition of "exist"

You’re opinion when asserted, can be accepted or dismissed without justification.
>>
>>146527102
>Agnostic atheist
How can one doubt their lack of belief?
>>
>>146527227
If you don't mind, please answer this question: do flerglehapperhedafdsij's exist?
>>
>>146527146
Then you know what? Give some of your ''agnostic'' thingy thoughts so I can debunk it.
>>
>>146527171
That same example can be used for theories and hypothesis
>>
File: image.jpg (71KB, 350x219px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.jpg
71KB, 350x219px
Are we still talking about Homura? I fucking love Homu, she did absolutely nothing wrong.
>>
>>146527190
>Breaking news! Highschool dropout on cartoon image board reveals that PHYSICS ARE WRONG! Entire history of human science is rendered invalid because he feels like it probably works this way based on no studies, no research and absolutely nothing but his own ass.
>>
>>146527210
Prove it
You're just using a question begging epithet.

Do this with sources and facts to back it up and I'll become atheist
>>
>>146527287
If you replace nothing with everything, I absolutely agree with you.
>>
>>146527302
Time flies like an arrow.
>>
>>146527268
Damage control is unbecoming

>>146527277
Okay

Can you Prove a Belief?

Think about that…

Mathematics can prove equations just ask an Atheist for proof of evolution. Science uses evidence to support theories and how many times have I seen Atheists asking for evidence of god? Theology and the arts use justification to warrant beliefs and probabilities.
Theory of justification is a part of epistemology, the arts, metaphysics and theology that attempts to understand the justification of propositions and beliefs. Epistemologists are concerned with various epistemic features of belief, which include the ideas of justification, warrant, rationality, and probability.
If you’re going to apply logic at least use the proper format.
>>
>>146527324
If you can fire that arrow at lightspeed, maybe.
>>
>>146523728
Summoning Richard Dawkins.
>>
>>146523728
Some people are saying it is a result of free will. I do not think that is the case. It is a result of being cut off from God to some degree. Humanity chose to abandon God's paradise so now we have to make an effort to connect with Him.

In heaven there is no evil because we are with God.

>>146524001
Provide your proof of determinism please. I have never heard a convincing argument for it.
>>
>>146527311
>Prove it
What's there to prove? That I don't buy the asserted premise that there is a particular "God" that exists? Your request is nonsensical.

Also you seem to be misusing the phrase you call a "question begging epithet". I'd like to hear your definition for this.
>>
>>146527302
Don't you dare reply to my posts with your memes, ignorant swine.
Go read any book on Thermodynamics and come back to me with real arguments, you fucking nigger.
>>
>>146526558
>>146526662
>>146526829
Not him, but I'll tell you something about agnosticism. There are two types of it:

1. "Soft agnosticism" is simply "I don't know". It could be someone who hasn't contemplated the answer yet, or doesn't know what information are required to answer it, so he keeps it open-ended. Basically most people are soft agnostics, if they don't have an answer and haven't decided one.

2. "Hard agnosticism" is "We can't know". Those people usually reject answers both in favor of and against the existence of a deity, on grounds that we ultimately have no proof, or that an answer cannot be made without committing logical fallacies.

Now considering that he did criticize a previous anon on grounds of proof of belief and preemptively rebutted a couple of potential fallacies, then I'm more inclined to think that he's on the harder side of agnosticism.

And he basically said it himself here:
>>146526943
>knowing you know nothing
>>
>>146527352
>Damage control
You literally ignored my response and just went HURR I CAN DISMISS UR OPINION.

I literally defined what the phrase meant to you and you just ignore it and continue to argue with nobody in particular.
>>
>>146527354
You obviously have no clue.
>>
>>146527393
Read the whole thread dumb tripfag.

I already did. However, as many others have demonstrated some people can never hear a convincing argument for something because they're fundamentally not smart enough to understand it. Given the fact that you're a tripfag I have even less hope in you than the average anonymous retard though.
>>
>>146527427
Your emotional response tells me all I need to know

Is there a name for people that don't like golf?
All you did was create a strawman and get upset I didn't play along
>>
>>146523728
Homu let the incubators live so that they could shoulder all the curses in God's new world. Did you even watch the movie?
>>
>>146527396
Prove what you asserted
All you did was make assertions backed up by a question begging epithet then say they are not assertions because you said so
>>
>>146527460
I skimmed, can you link to the relevant posts?
>>
Evil is a human thing and a result of free will. We have been left to our own devices.
>>
File: 1436601200962.png (189KB, 500x500px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1436601200962.png
189KB, 500x500px
>>146527352
There are couple evidence for that

Infinity

Parallel universe

And most scientist are atheist anyway

Here you go the real answers

Metaphysic power are quarter times stronger then average biological thing

You get four plus five and you an infinite loop hell of quantum fahrenheit/celsius of hit of creation of the universe. Thus the real god is autumn

Note: Our world is not the first world to exist, since it's Infinite

Rebutt couple justification or evolution and creation is zero by chance of existence of proposition christianization is false

Therefore god doesn't exist
>>
>>146527464
That's quite impressive that you can read people's emotions so easily through 4chan posts, even more impressive that you can reject people's arguments not based on their points but on the tone of their posts.
What strawman did I make in this post >>146527102? Do you even know what a strawman is?
>>
I would like to remind everyone that the only way they will see their waifu is if they make it up to heaven. She is waiting for you there, please don't disappoint her.
>>
>>146524000
The same reason he lets you sit on your ass, complain about it, and claim to be good.
>>
>>146527491
Could you please tell me what I asserted? Prove that I have no reason to act as if God exists and for all practical purposes my thought processes will be carried out as if the premise "God exists" is unproven, i.e. in more colloquial terms "God does not exist"?

Don't ignore this please and please answer my question telling me what it is I asserted.

Also please, please, please if you will, stop ignoring me and define the phrase "question begging epithet" because you appear to be misusing it quite frequently. The fact that you keep ignoring half of my posts makes me think you have no real response to them and is doing a terrible job of convincing me of your argument.
>>
>>146527578
Atheism is non-belief which leaves no place for doubt, it is not a non-belief;

It is a superstition by definition: a non-belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.

What theories have been proven true and absolute?

Silly Question even an atheist knows no theory can be proven true. (Like evolution)

So with no proof a theory is true. Does that mean it’s false? No of course not a theory stands as fact until falsified despite lack of proof.

Theo-ries = a set of ideas that have never been proven false after many many experiments

Would not the following equation be equally true?

Theo-logy = a set of ideas that have never been proven false after many many experiments.

Not being falsified they stand as fact. Is that not the scientific method? An idea stands until falsified and never proven by means of evidence.

Does god exist, is he real? I for one do not pretend not to know, what many atheists are sure they don’t believe in.

What god is, is an unfalsified fact. Just like the theory of evolution the big band and the spaghetti monster and pink unicorns are any of them real? Probably not but the fact remains. Evidence just supports a theory and raises probability that’s all nothing more it proves nothing.

Why is it so hard for atheists to admit the truth?
>>
>>146527497
>>146524882
I'm getting really tried from being in this thread for so long, so if you take any issues with it I really don't feel like explaining too in depth so try to check all the other posts in the reply chain to see if their saying the same dumb shit as you (most of them already say the same things as each other)

And ultimately try to just fucking think. Use your brain and try to understand as deeply as you can instead of just nitpicking the first minor inconsequential detail of the example I made up and instantly stop thinking to post about how that invalidates the entire thing like everyone else did.
>>
>>146523728
Because God is a dick
>>
>>146527669
>Theo-ries
>Theo-logy
Wow, now you're bringing false etymology into your already unconvincing arguments too.
>>
>>146527669
So I can take that you are a troll since you are a theist like hell

Also kill yourself for refuting my anwsers. This the the true strawman
>>
>>146523728
God would be bored without.
>>
>>146527603
The straw man fallacy is also very common, particularly in Theological debates. Think about this one literally. A man made of straw is easy to push to the ground. A real man is harder to push to the ground. What happens in this fallacy is that someone builds up someone else’s position like it’s made of straw, then easily knocks it down. In other words, someone attributes a false position to an opponent, then easily attacks that false position. If he had described the true position, it wouldn’t be so easy to knock down.

Sometimes the straw man fallacy aims to make someone’s argument or claim look downright ridiculous. For example: “This is what Christians actually believe…”

Here’s a full example of a typical straw man: “Theists thinks God is in everything. But if God is in everything then my pencil is God and I should worship it. This is idiotic. So God can’t be in everything.” Here the belief that God is in everything is equated with the need to worship—this is a mischaracterization of pantheism, the belief that God is in everything. It’s also used to justify misplaced burdens of proof and in begging the question fallacies. Such as “Atheists don’t claim there is not a god its Christian who do they need to prove it.” Or “ If christian believe in god why don’t the give one shred of evidence he exists.” If god then X…

A little logic will show you why some people are agnostic I don’t pretend to know what ignorant atheist fundies claim, they believe does not exist.

It boggles my mind why people just can’t say I don’t know… I think I’ll go make holy water get me some tap juice and boil the hell out of it.

I don’t know if there is a god but I know damn well you atheist fundies don’t know either. Just admit it…Wisdom is knowing you know nothing...

>>146527665
You said "god doesn't exist" then said this wasn't a assertion which itself is an assertion.
Prove what you asserted
No question begging epithet
>>
>>146525435
Adults with imaginary gfs called "waifus" are stupid
>>
>>146527722
Not a argument

>>146527757
>so I take it you're a troll since you're theist as hell
Why? Because I don't subscribe to your atheistic dogma?

Notice, I'm not arguing with the theist because they are not here.
But my same arguments would apply to them.
>>
Human brains evolved for religious faith so that individuals in small tribes wouldn't kill each other. Its easy to keep a small group together when you have some common thing believe in. Heck you could say this worked well in the middle ages. Grown adults arguing about religion on the internet is like a weird long term side effect of evolution, like clapping hands and phantom limb syndrome.

Evil as an intuitively easy to perceive category follows the same idea-ish.
>>
>>146527669
Okay, I'm going to break this down really, really simple for you in such a way that you have absolutely no way of weaseling out of it like you're currently doing.

I want you to answer each of these questions and make it explicitly clear which one you are answering each time, otherwise I think we can both agree that you are being intellectually dishonest. If you don't reply to this you might as well concede the argument.

You have two options:
One - you can live your life as if God exists and you have knowledge of ways in which particular actions you take on Earth in some way will impact this relationship with God.
Two - you can live your life as if God either doesn't exist and/or you have no conceivable way of knowing if your actions on Earth will in some way impact this relationship with God.

Which option do you pick? I'm predicting you might plan to weasel out and misuse the phrase "false dichotomy" but if you plan on doing that, I want you to provide another case that clearly doesn't fall into either option. Can you do this or will you chicken out?
>>
>>146524882
What if I like both types of ice cream equally? What if all the forces behind my decision have equal weight for each choice? I wouldn't just freeze up and explode. I would choose one, despite having equal forces influencing my decision for both choices. And I know you will say that something about my situation that day would make me lean more towards one than the other. I am including that. I mean a situation where, all forces present, influence both choices equally. Wouldn't that be free will at that point? Since nothing really forced that decision? That is how I see it.

I still do not buy it though. You can say that your past experiences influence your decisions. No one will debate that. But what you are claiming is that, in no situation ever, will anyone be able to make the choice to go against the decision these influences predict. That is a very bold claim and requires a lot of proof, much more than an anecdote about ice cream.

One more thing I will say. Even if determinism is proven, I will have no obligation to believe it, and you cannot even get mad at me because I would have no choice but to not believe in it. If you do get mad at me it is the same as getting mad at a rock for not rolling the right direction; it is irrational.
>>
>>146527915
>implying we ever stopped

If anything everybody does it harder than ever now.
>>
>>146527578
>Infinity
Elaborate

>Parallel universe
Elaborate and prove it exists

>And most scientist are atheist anyway
Prove it

>Note: Our world is not the first world to exist, since it's Infinite
Elaborate and prove it

>Rebutt couple justification or evolution and creation is zero by chance of existence of proposition christianization is false
Prove it

>Therefore god doesn't exist
Prove it

You're just making assertions then assuming one won't question you or ask you to elaborate.

Where is your proof?
Where are your sources?
>>
>>146528008
Answer my question. It should take two seconds if you're not weaseling out of it. Why take so long?

You have two options:
One - you can live your life as if God exists and you have knowledge of ways in which particular actions you take on Earth in some way will impact this relationship with God.
Two - you can live your life as if God either doesn't exist and/or you have no conceivable way of knowing if your actions on Earth will in some way impact this relationship with God.

Which option do you pick? If you plan to call my argument a "false dichotomy" prove it and provide another case that clearly doesn't fall into either option.
>>
>>146527311
>Do this with sources and facts to back it up and I'll become atheist

Are you dumb? Atheism has nothing to do with facts. You can be four things:

Gnostic theist
Agnostic theist
Agnostic atheist
Gnostic atheist

Gnosticism is about knowledge. In reality, everyone is an agnostic because no one really knows whether or not gods exist.

Theism is about belief or non-belief in gods. That's it.

I can be a gnostic atheist about certain gods (because their qualities are contradictory) but one can't be a gnostic to all potential gods.
>>
>>146523900
Madokami got wrecked by a dying magical girl. She wasn't even worthy of being god.
>>
File: 1403059124218.jpg (171KB, 1167x929px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1403059124218.jpg
171KB, 1167x929px
>>146528071
To be fair I don't think anybody could really stand a chance against this.
>>
>>146523728
Evil trucked god. Despite what /u/ says Madoka never loved Homura in any way and is going to enjoy murdering her for good like she deserves. Nobody loves Homura.
>>
>>146527928
I'll play your game but after I answer your questions I want to to prove with facts and sources that "god" doesn't exist no question begging epithet.

>you can live your life as if God exists and you have knowledge of ways in which particular actions you take on Earth in some way will impact this relationship with God.
This is probably true but prove god exists

>you can live your life as if God either doesn't exist and/or you have no conceivable way of knowing if your actions on Earth will in some way impact this relationship with God.
This is probably true but I need you to prove god exist or doesn't exist

>Which option do you pick?
2

>I'm predicting you might plan to weasel out and misuse the phrase "false dichotomy"
The irony of this post
Elaborate how your black and white mentality isn't a false dichotomy?
Your questions even shows this

>but if you plan on doing that, I want you to provide another case that clearly doesn't fall into either option. Can you do this or will you chicken out?
One can live with or without god
But if you can't back up what you asserted then keep looking for the answer instead of claiming you know everything when you don't
>>
>>146528150
>claiming you know everything when you don't
prove he doesn't know everything, prove the assertion you just made.
>>
Okay, I notice people in these discussions tend to make poor distinction between "I don't believe" and "I believe not". We should blame this on human language, as fails to purvey the distinction, and as a result we learn to blur the distinction in our thinking, and usually do not make it in the first place. Not just in religion, but in everything we think about.

There are not two, but actually three states of belief:

1. Having a belief that something is true
2. Having a belief that something is false
3. Not having either belief -- for example, not knowing which one is true, and recognizing the lack of evidence to make a decision towards either

When a new idea is proposed to you, the default state is #3, not #2. Making a decision towards either #1 or #2 requires proof. Without proof, a sound person would remain in #3.

And the way I see it, many atheists just want to shove #2 down people's throat despite the lack of proof, which is pretty dishonest. It's evident that they do this because religious beliefs discomfort them way too much. And trying to change your or other people's belief just because shit discomforts you is a serious integrity issue.

Not to mention that it doesn't make sense. Religious people are just living on their own, believing things inside their heads, practicing shit for themselves, and never thinking about you. The problem is only inside your head. Forget their existence, and they'll never go out of their way to hunt you down or shove things down your throat.

Your problems exist inside your brain. Stop trying to change the world and start trying to change what's in your brain, and everything will become fine.
>>
>>146527287
Nobody loves Homura

>perpetual failure
>hateful bitch
>abuses Madoka
>has a loveless obsession with owning Madoka
>ruined everything constantly
>psychopathic murderer
>literally evil itself having destroyed Madoka's heaven
>torments and brainwashes everyone for her own amusement
>Madoka never cared about her
>only non virgin girl, fucked a wraith out of lust and selfish spite
>is the most selfish whore ever
>original wish was made solely to keep Madoka to herself
>most hated character by far globally
>>
>>146527954
You're right that was sloppy. Whether or not the pros outweigh the cons these days though is another question. Point is, organized faith is just an expression of some set of genes(which should be common sense) and everyone arguing seriously about god in this thread is fucking retarded.
>>
>>146528056
There is no such thing as a Agnostic Atheist or a Agnostic Gnostic.

Pic related

Even dawkins doesn't use these terms
>>
>>146528196
>Prove he doesn't know everything
Simple
What are the powerballs winning numbers?

Why haven't you invited time travel?
Why haven't you cured cancer?
Why haven't you invented free energy?

Easy questions to answer from someone that knows everything
>>
>>146527934
There are billions upon billions of tiny factors working inside your mind at all times. There's no way they would ever be "equal" at any point.

>go against the decision these influences predict
I think I might be understanding why people aren't able to get this. I bet when I talk about genetics and past experiences controlling your decisions, you're picturing a tiny you sitting inside your head, and floating around the little you are clouds of genetics and past experiences whispering "make this decision this way, choose this thing" and the little you being controlled like a puppet. But that's not how it works. The genetics and experiences ARE you. There's no other part to your mind besides those things. It's a difficult and not very pleasant concept to wrap your mind around. And it's hard to explain via 4chan posts because of just how complex it is.

>much more than an anecdote about ice cream.
The ice cream is irrelevant. The point of that example of any other is just to get people thinking. To make them think not about what they do, but why they do it. Most just think "because I want to" and stop there, but you're supposed to go further and ask WHY do you want to. And if you think about that, ask WHY again. And again.

Try to give a real scientific explanation for what "free will" is that doesn't involve any genetics or experiences. Don't just handwave it away saying "oh it's magic", give a REAL explanation of what in your brain it is.

>Even if determinism is proven, I will have no obligation to believe it, and you cannot even get mad at me because I would have no choice but to not believe in it. If you do get mad at me it is the same as getting mad at a rock for not rolling the right direction; it is irrational.
Oh I'm not mad at all. The fact that you even figured that out show's you're a lot closer to understanding it than most of the other people in this thread in fact.
>>
>>146528286
Oh I didn't even mean religion in particular. People are just way more caught up in those tribalistic mentalities now than ever before.

It's ALL about liberal vs conservative, 4chan vs tumblr, us vs them, more than ever.
>>
>>146528196
Also thIs is question deflection and avoiding

You didn't answer my questions after I gave you my answers to your questions
>>
>>146528150
If you want proof that God exists then you need to form a connection with Him. That is the only way. I have seen visions of heaven and felt God in my heart. That is how I know He is real, and if you want to know He is real you will have to connect with Him in the same way.

I am running out of Christian-looking Kyoukos to post.

>>146528377
>There's no way they would ever be "equal" at any point.

So you are telling me, that in the entire span of humanity's existence, there never could be a case where these are equal? Two big numbers cannot ever be equal in this case? Provide proof for that one please.

I will have to continue later if the thread is still up. I have to go to class.
>>
>>146528289
>There is no such thing as a Agnostic Atheist or a Agnostic Gnostic.

Agnostic atheists are people who do not believe in the existence of gods, and do not know for sure if their lack of belief is correct. Any self-respecting atheist is this. Dawkins is wrong, the distinction between agnostic and gnostic is important. And I never said agnostic gnostic, that doesn't even make any sense.

>And I don't really know of anyone who actually insists that God has been positively proven to be nonexistent.

Doesn't matter. Not believing, and knowing that your position is true, is a possible position. Negative numbers can't represent a physical object, but they still exist.

It's the same reason why gnostic theists don't actually exist (no one has any proof either way) but it's a possible position to hold.
>>
>>146523728
>Why does god allow evil to exist?
Because good and evil are human perceptions and don't actually exist
>>
>>146528562
>Agnostic atheists are people who do not believe in the existence of gods, and do not know for sure if their lack of belief is correct. Any self-respecting atheist is this
That's called agnosticism not atheism
>>
>>146528604
>Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims are unknown and perhaps unknowable.
>Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

They're not even addressing the same questions. Gnosis means knowledge, theos means god.
>>
>>146528008#
>Infinity:

Continous time loop of 18billion light years contains at least megadrive light year 1 divides by one kilometer power

The affects of that are hydromattecist, you'll pass through places where the configuration of particles will begin to appear familiar, and if you proceed long enough you'll find larger and larger identical regions of space, and eventually you'll find an identical you. And finding a copy of yourself is just the start of the bananas crazy things you can do in an infinite Universe.

>And most scientist are atheist anyway:

You can go look for the answers by yourself

>Note: Our world is not the first world to exist, since it's Infinite
Already proven

>>Rebutt couple justification or evolution and creation is zero by chance of existence of proposition christianization is false

I will elaborate. Evolution explains the reasonable and logical hyper cycle of our life as living beings, it's pretty easy. When person ages it's pretty similar to evolution changes effect, It's long and unnoticeable. Human's technological advancement and society evolution is evolved. We weren't not just some retarded stone aged retards, right? You can explain certain animals were extinct by just realize their evolutionary engine was pretty bad failure. Evolution is time btw forgot to mention.

Now species, evolution contains the tree of speciesism. Changes of entire different beings. As I said up there, evolution is low. When an animal adepts to a certain environment or terrain, it will have different genetics and dna factors in time.

So when creationist trying contradicted that, is only by magic and unreasonable, luxurious imagination. Thus rebutts in the wrong here. Theists can only have their own mind and that's why you can have both, either you believe in this, or become reasonable.

Thus god doesn't exist.
>>
>>146528473
Man I almost had hope for you. You seemed like you were a little closer to grasping it than anyone else in this thread, but then just like all the others you nitpick one insignificant detail from one part of my post and just shut off your brain and stop thinking so you can say "YEP I PROVED IT WRONG NOW I DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT ANY MORE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT. THE REST OF HIS POST? PFFFT WHO CARES I FOUND THAT NITPICK". I should have known better.

And I don't know how serious you're being about that god stuff but if it's not a joke and you actually think that then clearly you have interest or concern for real science, logic or proof of anything and don't deserve to be taken seriously.


I should have been to sleep hours ago. All attempting to explain this to people on 4chan ever accomplishes is reminding me how stupid people are.
>>
File: 1463250659350.jpg (10KB, 313x313px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1463250659350.jpg
10KB, 313x313px
>>146528713
and that's why you can't have both*
>>
>>146528150
>This is probably true but prove god exists
What is "this"? I'm not asserting that God exists or doesn't exist with those options, so what is there to be "probably true"?

I simply stated the two responses to the premise "God exists and I have knowledge of things that can be done by me that in some way impact this relationship with God". Either your thoughts and decisions WILL be informed and influenced by this premise and you live your life accordingly (option 1), or they WILL NOT be (option 2). Where does probably true come anywhere near being into this? Why are you asking me to prove that god exists/doesn't exist when I didn't assert that in either premise?

Option 2 quite literally "There is not a god (as of the moment I am choosing this option) which I know that any decisions that I can make on Earth will impact my relationship with them". Your thoughts and decisions are NOT grounded the premise I stated in the previous paragraph. I.e. you are not convinced of the existence of a god that you have a way of knowing how to impact their relationship. As in, to abbreviate it, "God does not exist" to me for all functional purposes. Explain to me why you disagree with this.
>>
>>146528370
why would he have to answer those questions? what if he desn't feel like it? you haven't proven that he doesn't know everything. he's not trying to prove he knows everything, you're the one who asserted that he doesn't, so prove it.
>>
File: 1436993754745.png (247KB, 821x647px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1436993754745.png
247KB, 821x647px
Whether god is real or not, the better question is are aliens real?
>>
File: muscleqb.jpg (439KB, 688x1000px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
muscleqb.jpg
439KB, 688x1000px
Which meguka can bench press the most?
>>
>>146528835
Or to put it even more simply, the amount I believe in the existence of a God which I can perform any sort of practical interactions with (i.e. ones which I know how to perform) is the same amount I believe in the fairy unicorn and let that influence my decisions, and yet if I were to say that fairy unicorns don't exist then you wouldn't start this whole argument with me because you understand that the meaning of those words to mean "As far as I am aware, the evidence and arguments available in favor of the existence of the fairy unicorn is not significant enough for me to base my decisions and thoughts around the idea that they exist". And yet, when the same thing is applied to the idea of a deity you start arguing for me to "prove" it. The way the phrase was used originally it was clear that it wasn't a formal logical argument but literally just a colloquial shortening of the above phrase. It's literally arguing semantics, and after I explained what was meant by the phrase you just kept going "prove it prove it" despite the fact that I explained that it meant the above.

I feel like you just started a whole argument over semantics because you dislike rebbit euphoric atheists.
>>
>>146529403
I'm assuming you >>146528150 went to sleep so if this thread archives before you get back up I would like to hear your response in desuarchive.
>>
>>146528604
>>146528704
I've gotten into this debate many times before and I've found there's no point to it. As long as you understand each others position, does the semantics or whatever the fuck you want to call yourself really matter?
>>
File: tipping.jpg (25KB, 470x470px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
tipping.jpg
25KB, 470x470px
>>146523782
>>
>>146529980
Not one bit. It's a stupid argument and I regret involving myself in it as I did in this thread. Arguing over semantics kind of sucks hard for everyone involved.
>>
>>146523728
Yeah... because we living in not Edem. And say thanks to Eva.
>>
>>146524149
>>146524195
There is no mention of "eternal torture" in the Bible. The cost of sin is "being cut off from God"> Which at the very least means you won't be fulfilled or happy.
>>
>>146524206
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcAhTTDJTxA
God is cool, but power of will is cooler.
>>
File: 1463580512382.png (114KB, 311x438px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1463580512382.png
114KB, 311x438px
>>146530109
>>
>>146528742
>but then just like all the others you nitpick one insignificant detail from one part of my post and just shut off your brain and stop thinking
I did not have time to respond to your whole post. I will finish after I take a shower, okay? Let me respond to one point quick though.

I do not think it is a nitpick. It is a very valid criticism that many philosophers have used as an argument. If you tell me that our choice is the function of two or more inputs, and our brain chooses whatever choice corresponding to the greatest input, what happens when two inputs are equal? It is a very important point. You cannot just say that it will not happen and ignore the possibility.

Another point I will say quick is that your philosophy is not incompatible with compatibilism. I would like to hear your take on it. I think that if we can consciously make a decision, even if in the same situation we would never choose anything else, it can still be free will. Read up on compatibilism quick, this was just a short explanation I tried to do really fast so it won't be very good.

I will be back after a shower. Get some sleep if you need to. I do not mind if we end here.
>>
I'll put in a coin for determinism.

The universe is dictated by natural laws. These laws can be described by equations. These equations represent, in essence, what happens under what circumstances. Now, say you could combine all of these laws into a composite, perfect "universal equation" free from error, then solving it would determine everything that has and that ever will happen. Essentially, every choice you make is the result of the sum of all events preceding it, not an expression of self-determination. Your mind is not the determining factor, the entire universe is.

Of course, mathematics are simply representative of how the universe operates, and is based on observation, which is why error exists, so such a "universal equation" would be impossible to figure out, but it's meant to be taken as an analogy. Moreover, you can consider it a "god", but one without persona as opposed to mythological gods.
>>
So how about that Madoka Magica? Crazy how a 14 years old girl became the law of cycles.
>>
File: 1858462.jpg (1MB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1858462.jpg
1MB, 1200x1600px
>>146531076
Madoka is certainly the best. How can other girls even compare?
>>
File: tipping.jpg (63KB, 600x532px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
tipping.jpg
63KB, 600x532px
>>146530480
>>
>>146531167
Can't wait for /u/ to get btfo when she kills Homura and tells her she never loved her at all.
>>
>>146531167
Madoka certainly out gays all megucas.
>>
File: 1472650346317.png (63KB, 511x384px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1472650346317.png
63KB, 511x384px
>>146531236
>>
>>146531252
>tells her she never loved her at all
>>
>>146531311
Libel.

>>146531490
Never happened.
>>
>>146531311
She's an unashamed raging homusexual.
>>
>>146530696
>>146528742
I guess you are asleep? I will end now then.

>>146531076
I do think it is funny how it became a religious argument. We should talk about Madoka for the rest of the thread though.
>>
>>146531649
She needs to calkdown.
>>
>>146523922
Those are man-made terms, and debating about the existence of god on /a/ is fucking stupid. We can be here all day, and none of us would come up with anything satisfactory.

That's why Demiurge is better option.
>>
>>146534082
>Those are man-made terms
Exactly and that's why it's not real and stupid.

By what I just said and what actually he is, god is a evil psycho being who created this miserable world just to ''test'' us and then torture us, which is not real anyone.

And now people need to debate whether good or evil is subjective or debatable?

So you telling me being good is evil now and being evil is good or both of them mix out? Well I'm not disagreeing with that though, but don't take it out of context or try to connect it with some ''omnipotent'' being.

I just don't buy it and that's why in my opinion believing in this nonsense is ridiculous and you should stop confusing yourself even further
>>
>>146525175
But OP indirectly asserted that god exists though.
>>
>>146530356
That still amounts to eternal unhappiness
>>
Jesus Christ, y'all really do bump your own shit posting threads.
>>
>>146537927
It's just this guy>>146537330 I only sage and really had enough with this shit
>>
>>146532359
I'm a little disappointed that I missed the whole debate.
Thread posts: 288
Thread images: 44


[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Top | Home]
Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5
If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.