What caused opinions on this series to sour so much over the years?

>>146346776
The series is far from perfect, but it's mainly due to popularity, as much as people want to deny it.

My hypothesis is that the characters were emulated over and over again in anime and manga to the point where the better versions overshadowed the characters and the poor imitations made people hate the archetypes.

>>146347445
haha what's a better shindig?

>>146346776
I have an unbiased opinion. I've been watching anime a lot because I just finished school. I decided to just watch older shows that I assumed were "classics"

watched the entire series for the first time 8 days ago. I honestly hated it.

It probably soured over the years because all the kids that thought it was deep and cool grew up and realized it was just nonsense.

My friend said he was a huge fan of evangelion when he was like 10 because he liked the fights. hes 21 now and hasn't even bother to give it a rewatch because he knows that it's just stupid.

Always figured it was people realizing how melodramatic and pretentious it was once they grew up and read their first book.

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>>146346776
Waifufags.

>>146347551
Shinji unfortunately doesn't have anyone better than him that come to mind but there are plenty of crying beta male MCs that make people hate them. At least Shinji had justifiable reasons for being a little bitch.

>>146346776
It has everything to do with what kind of anime is being made in recent years and what kind of fans it attracts.

People who got into anime for SAOs and AOTs like >>146347638 want empowerment fantasies and pandering not well written fiction with thematic depth and artistic merit.

>>146346776
the people on /a/ that hate on it only do so because this show proves that the medium is in decadence as it has been unable to put out any anime that overshadows it or is more relevant when talking about the capabilities of the medium.
and this in turn makes all of their hivemind opinions on the medium false ("hurr there are as many as good anime being produced today as there were in 98, the medium isn't dying, my fan service ridden derivative shit is as good as lain").

>>146347920
>well written fiction with thematic depth and artistic merit.

I seriously you hope you don't think Evangelion qualifies for any of these categories.

>>146348060
by those standards, does any anime have those qualifications?

>>146348186
Not him but I wouldn't answer with a serious response. It would be picked apart like a pack of wolves on an elk.

evangelion was pretty rushed by the end and had lose ends and hard to follow and unconventional storyline. it's was too much for some people

>>146347920
You're mistaken about me. I stopped watching AoT specifically because of that. I enjoyed it up until he became a titan, and then i realized where it was going from there. sao is just retarded.

Evangelion is "artistic" if you mean abstract.
It leaves a lot to the imagination but It's all fake. fake depth. fancy visuals and crazy weird stuff happening on screen. it doesn't connect to anything it's just a lot of fluff

>>146348186
they always say that kind of thing and then don't answer these sort of questions.
they don't have standards, they jus hate anything meaningful because they are insecure manchildren that can't stand the fact that there are people out there that are more sensitive and sophisticated than them. that's why they love Gurren Lagann and kill la kill.

>>146348374
yeah and you surely are going to tell me that Madonna is deeper right? just because it is simpler and everything is spoofed to the viewer.
or if not what anime do you consider to be deep or deeper than eva?

>>146348682
RahXephon was better.

>>146348682
wow dude, Kill la Kill is fucking awesome.

>>146348374
Everything you said about NGE is just plain false. Read a few interpretations/analysis since the show flew over your head completely.

I'll say this again, give me an example of what constitutes real depth if Eva doesn't.

>>146348682

You sound like a huge fan of modern """"""art"""""

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>>146346776
desu senpai if someone says they dislike eva then they're just stupid and should go back to watching natruto, aots, sao and other shows that their tiny brain can handle

>>146348796
Panty and stocking with garterbelt

It's mostly Anno's angst given a show. It achieves the equivalent of an anime committing suicide. It was a fucking tragedy and trainwreck reduced to cheap thrills and trolling. Some called it a masterpiece. I did and now I look back and realize how pretentious its pretention made me. Anno needed professional intervention during Evangelion's production. It would have helped the overall result rather than shooting it in the guts and watching it die slowly.

>>146348881
I don't watch shows for "depth" I watch them to be entertained and possibly to think about something in a different light.

If your show is just a clusterfuck with no actual meaning. then it's not fucking entertaining.

Start low. Samurai Champloo. pretty easy show to understand and pick up. got plenty of ideas and action. easily twice as engaging as evangelion.
Death note is deeper than evangelion fucks sake

>>146349226

When a Faggot is Allowed to Use a Computer: The Post.

>>146348947
and you sound like a red neck. I'd rather enjoy postmodern(this is what you meant) art.

>>146348957
>>146348818

you two should watch more film. you can't really compare eva with shows that simple and unambitious.
it's like comparing Lars von trier with Christian bale.

>>146349349
Relax dude.

>>146349438
not Christian bale, I meant Christopher Nolan.

Rebuild

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The more Evangelion threads I browse the more I realize how trash the series actually was.

>>146349438
I don't think you get it lol.

>>146349438
Do you pontificate over the meaning of a white canvas or blue square that's been put up in an art gallery after reading the little plaque next to it telling you what to think?

>>146349226
death note isn't fucking deeper than Evangelion.
and while I enjoyed samurai champloo it's pretty obvious it's a pretty much more unambitious, conservative, low risk show when compared with eva.
even then I found eva to be way more engaging in part because of that. you were always surprised with what innovative ideas anno came up with.

>>146349226
Eva makes perfect sense and it's not Eva's fault you don't get it.

And depth has nothing to do with how many ideas a work has.

>>146349609
>not a new IP
Kill yourself retarded shitposter.

>>146349777

have you ever been to a fucking museum?

>>146349793
a 14 year old crying for 20 episodes sure is innovative

>>146349933
Yep. I fail to see how that answers my question. Ad hominem incoming?

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>>146349909
>Eva makes perfect sense

>>146346776

I personally love it but I don't think it's "good" if that makes any sense....

The opinion of the series hasn't soured imo, I think it's more that it's ridiculously popular, infamous even, and there are ALWAYS multiple threads for it on /a/ at any given time. So I think people are just sick of it. Because it's not SO great that it needs to be constantly relevant or discussed.

Just my two cents though. People are worn out on Eva and people who legit disliked it or came to dislike it as their tastes evolved obviously exist.

People say it's a classic, but that's not true, it's just probably one of the most, (if not THE most,) controversial anime series ever. And not because of it's content, because of the fanbase and the constant relevancy.

>>146349909
>Eva makes perfect sense and it's not Eva's fault you don't get it.

Eva does not appeal to someone looking exclusively for some fun entertainment. The entire story makes no sense at face value, and is only good if you can analyse the themes and think about it. I blame it on the taste of the newer viewers.

Now, anyone complaining about artistic merit in Eva is a complete retard. It has some of the best directed sequences ever made. The entire cinematography is really good, even the OST is good.

>>146350069
what I meant is that you don't know anything about what you are trying to talk about.

>>146346776

High expectations. Eva is an anime that is hyped to death and it's entry level as hell. So the people getting into anime are going to be mind blown by it or extremely underwhelmed because they set their expectations too high.

>>146350222
Yep, ad hominem. Putting yourself somehow above me in your own mind doesn't make you better just delusional. How old are you?

>>146346776
We're at the point now where that's not even possible because by the time people get to Eva they've already seen 1000 deviations. Just look at the threads, the main complaint from newfags are usually about shinji, rei, and asuka.

If you saw Eva early enough in your career then you most likely share a lot of the general opinions on it. Personally I think it's the one series that is required viewing before digging deep into anime beyond the toonami tier shows.

>>146350279
what is not entry level and better than eva? I'm curious.
>>146350291
here is a hint: postmodern art is not anything like what you described.

It aged badly. For its time is was definitely unique, and at best a groundbreaking anime in terms of deconstruciting a genre and breathing life to an stagnating industry, creatively speaking that is. But because it aged so badly, those that watched it during its initial run, or around that time, will tell you how amazing it is, but then you watch it and it's dissapointing, and since the fanbase is so vocal, it's only natural to hate it in response.
This happens all the time, with movies, videogames, and specially music.

Something something pretentious

>>146350479
How did it age badly?

>>146348682

To be fair, as someone who liked Eva, Gurren Lagann might seem boorish, but it's also pretty good. People shit on me for liking one or the other, but I look at it as enjoying Doritos and enjoying gourmet cakes.

(I'll let you headcanon which is which.)

They both have merit in their own ways.

>>146350500
samefag

>>146350516
The whole psychological thing has been done much better by later anime, and all of its elements of deconstruction became part of the genre itself. If you started watching anime recently, Eva's characters will come off as overused and cliche.

>>146347638
>just nonsense
It's pretty straightforward, I can see coming out of it without thinking it's particularly deep, but it's in no way nonsense

>>146346776
It wastes a lot of time, there's a reason 90% of great anime before the 00's are OVAs, they don't waste half the show with episodic bullshit.

>>146350698
A work can't age based on what another work does. It has o be viewed on it's own merit.

>>146350479
>>146350698

haha so much butthurt over the fact that eva is the most relevant anime in 2016.
what anime has done shinji? Sao? hahaha.
basically you're spouting the "shinji is a pussy" meme. but that's not really what shinji was. shinji was human and that's what makes him more interesting and nuanced than your alleged shinji clones.

What's with all the /lit/ rejects?

I think a lot of the VERY recent hate has to do with Re:Zero's popularity, and the fact that there are some undeniable similarities between the two (Especially Shinji and Subaru). /a/ always has a contrarian backlash to any that gets popular on Reddit/MAL, and in an attempt to discredit Re:Zero, Eva is getting friendly fired just to lessen the arguments for Re:Zero.

It'll pass after there's been some time since Re:Zero stops airing.

>>146348682
Eva is just as heavy-handed with its themes and ideas as TTGL and KLK are, it's just that the latter shows express it through action and yelling while Eva expresses it through characters shitting on themselves and screaming.
They're both great but at least in that regard they're pretty similar, there's no reason to think Eva is somehow more sophisticated

>>146346776

I am going to say newfags who treat anime like one more thing to add to their nerdy fandoms and want to follow it just enough to appease their fad. Newfags nowadays were introduced to highly action oriented shows like SAO and AoT which are fun and over somewhat over the top and stylized and see that as their ideal anime. Eva is a deconstruction of a genre that offers nothing like the anime mentioned, Eva shows the worst of everything: negative emotions, socialization, family, technology, adolescents, responsibility, etc and has deep contemplating messages. Newfags dont want a good story or thought provoking messages, they want more of what got them into anime which is not inherently bad but, to this day their tastes still have not changed to open the door form more anime and just waste until they hear about another anime like SAO, AOT, or OPman.

The first 4 episodes with Shinji running away and everything were pretty hard to digest. And Its not an anime anyone can watch and enjoy like most entry level anime.
For some reason, character focused anime aren't as popular as pure action anime (TTGL) and plot driven anime (FMA)

>>146350904
Let's find out. Nietzsche was the best philosopher I have ever read.

Is 4th movie even coming?

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>>146351007
>pure action anime (TTGL)

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>>146350903
>"eva is the most relevant anime in 2016"
>this is what idiots actually believe

can someone tell me what the differences between the anime's and the manga's story is

>>146350944
yeah, not really. eva is a lot more subtle.
I can understand you having a negative bias against it. you're from /a/ after all.
still the subtle and polisemic nature of eva does really set it apart.

>>146350087
>People say it's a classic, but that's not true
Shaping the anime landscape for the years to come and maintaining huge popularity even 20 years after it aired are good reasons to call it a classic

>>146351067
Well it is. The plot is as simple as it gets, and barely any character development. The rest of it is just action.

>>146351067
there's nothing more to ttgl beyond "I want to be the next hikage"
>>146351107
/a/ will always deny this. I said so in my post.
anyone who follows discussions on this medium nows that this is the case though.

>>146350479
I watched it one year ago and it's my favorite anime.

>>146351120
>you're from /a/ after all.
>/a/ dislikes NGE meme

https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/146189377/#146189377

>>146346776
/a/ is constantly being occupied by more and more underage airingfags and people from reddit. which basically means /a/'s taste is just constantly getting shittier.

>>146350944

>Eva heavy handed with themes and Ideas as TTGL and KLK

What?

I think EVA blows those two out of the water with themes and ideas. Eva always made me slow down and reflect on things in my life and decisions. It made me finally to confront things that I would rather avoid. I do think those 2 you mentioned are really good shows and well balanced and do offer some messages but not as much as Eva. What I think those anime excel at is being the perfect archetype of the hero's journey like you see in Greek and medieval epics.

>>146346776
Rebuild.

>>146351258
haha that video is so cringe worthy and vapid. it says absolutely nothing that isn't already obvious through a first watch. you can say as much about naruto too, that doesn't make naruto deep.

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>>146351258
>linking youtubers
At least write your own argument, faggot.

>>146346776
>lol look at how deep evangelion is
>oh you just don't get it

>>146350479
being a hipster never goes out of style

>>146351429
that has nothing to do with the show itself

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>>146351120
Both are subtle in certain ways, but if screaming about how much you hate yourself and want to die while images of you looking fucked up isn't heavy-handed, then what the fuck is? And I don't think being heavy-handed is a bad thing, it's why Gainax was so fucking good
>>146351213
>barely any character development
What the fuck, please explain to me how Simon at the beginning, who is essentially Shinji, and Simon at the end are even remotely similar
Also the plot of Eva is simple as well, Gainax shows aren't exactly known for having complex plots
>>146351258
Great video
>>146351403
The one you think is better is irrelevant, but they're both heavy-handed and in-your-face. That isn't a bad thing, but it's just fucking true. Everyone straight up yells at you what's wrong with them, it isn't left up to the imagination
>>146351423
What makes something deep beyond that? Better yet, what makes something deep that Eva does and TTGL does not?

>>146350903
>basically you're spouting the "shinji is a pussy" meme.
I never said that.

>>146351196

You gotta good point, but I feel like people labelling it a classic is what the backlash largely stems from. "If I don't think it's a classic then there's something wrong with me, I KNOW! I'll make a shitty thread on /a/ about how my taste is better and make myself feel better."

(I agree with you though.)

>>146351517
Probably not, but it does have a negative effect on the show itself. Kinda like how tumblr ruins everything it touches.

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There's a good bit of traditional cinematography and skill put into Eva besides all the freudian stuff and hamfisted puberty allegories. Its just a well put together piece of art, you can call it boring but calling it bad would indicate your retardation.

>>146351379

If that's the case then shouldn't /a/'s opinion on Evangelion be increasing?

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>>146351555
>What the fuck, please explain to me how Simon at the beginning, who is essentially Shinji, and Simon at the end are even remotely similar
Simon doesn't have his own identity, no personality, and the show itself points this out. Simon is a classic hero character. When you hear about old tales of heroes, they never describe their personality or quirks, what kind of people they go great with and what kind of people they are not good with, nor interests and dreams; they talk about their achievements.

That was what TTGL was doing. Simon shrugs off personality flaws as the show goes on. He's an over-the-top, glorified version of the hero's journey. The themes of evolution go along with Simon's character. By the end of the show, Simon is a literal god, both in body and mind.

Therefore, Simon's "character development" isn't "character personality development", its "character power-level development".

>>146351585
I honestly don't see any point on discussing with anyone that might think eva is not a lot more complex, polisemic and subtle than fucking ttgl. or that says Eva's plot is simple. I'm sorry. you're just a contrarian teenager and you are denying the obvious.

>>146351429
this is what dumb people have always said about any piece of art that flies over their heads.

>>146352097
Pretentious bullshit

>>146351555
Eva explores it's themes far better than TTGL. In other words, Eva make a lot stronger argument for what it's trying to convey. That is what constitutes depth. I'm the video poster by the way.

>>146352151
>Pretentious
Not even that anon, but it really isn't.
Is reading something more than a couple sentences long too hard for you?

>>146352097
this is a pretty good point.

>>146352120
Get a load of this superiority complex.

>>146352097
Yes, if you ignore the fact that he grows from being a shadow of Kamina to being his own man, taking elements from Kamina, Rossiu, and everyone else to become a well-balanced man by the end. A lot more changes with him than just his power level, jesus christ
>>146352120
>or that says Eva's plot is simple
Do you know what plot means? Eva's plot is simple, THE IDEAS IT TACKLES may be complex, but its plot is as straightforward as one can be
>>146352151
I think you agree with me, but fuck you anyway. "Pretentious" is a word that does nothing but shut down discussion. Eat a dick
>>146352237
I'm not trying to say Eva isn't deep or that it isn't great, I love pretty much every relevant Gainax show, but it IS heavy-handed in its themes and the plot itself is fairly simple.
I personally do think TTGL is better at presenting its themes and also being interesting instead of having a middle section that's just typical mecha fare, with the beginning and ending outshining that section entirely, but that's not even the argument I'm trying to make

I have never seen an argument on this board that managed to prove to me in anyway that someone could see Evangelion as bad

The show makes perfect fucking sense and if you don't get it, it's not the show's damn fault, you either didn't pay attention or you're just that god damn stupid.

Everyone who dislikes the shows are the idiots who watch garbage just because it has a bunch of stuff happening at that second, action with people screaming, crazy premises, even if it means nothing because that show didn't write itself well enough for it stand up if you actually use your god damn brain.

Fuck off you contrarians with your "eva is prententious/2deep4u" bullcrap. Try to think before you spout a bunch of dumb buzzwords

>>146351634
if you let a fanbase influence your entire opinion of a show, then it only means you're an idiot

>>146352470
Eva's plot is not simple. the objectives of every party are not straightforward, there are a lot of twists, the resolution is very ambiguous and all in all requires a lot of attention to follow.
you denying that goes to prove how gigantic your biases against it are.

>>146352253
It is pretentious, and patently so. Simon has his own struggles to deal with, his own way of being and handling things, and clearly, he does have a personality.

>>146346776
How has it soured?

>>146352470
>I think you agree with me, but fuck you anyway. "Pretentious" is a word that does nothing but shut down discussion. Eat a dick

Nope, see >>146352754

You are a sad pretentious fuck and nothing you said is true.

>>146352470
>Yes, if you ignore the fact that he grows from being a shadow of Kamina to being his own man, taking elements from Kamina, Rossiu, and everyone else to become a well-balanced man by the end. A lot more changes with him than just his power level, jesus christ
My point was is that his development is to make him physically stronger, not to make him a compelling character. All of Simon's development is geared towards making him a better fighter.

Typically, personality flaws stay with people throughout the entire show. Shinji, for example, is still pretty terrible at interacting with people by the end of the show, but he improves enough to where he can function at a normal level. He isn't some social chad who has tons of friends and a girlfriend, and he never will be, because he's Shinji.

>>146350291
I don't have a dog in this argument, but what you're saying essentially amounts to nothing. You start off by asking a loaded question and then get mad at "ad hominem". You have no argument dude, and yet you act like you do.

>>146350479
Eva has held up incredibly well over the years.

>>146352817
That would mean that everything Simon goes through is meant to make him stronger, but it does not. Simon could have been that strong from day 1, but he did not grow enough for that to possible. He was able to be that strong because he had grown enough to tap into the spiral power and achieve what he did.

Also, did you even watch Evangelion? This only happens to Shinji in the first half, he completely reverses once the show goes on.

>>146352470
you are mistaking presenting your themes better with other things.
Gurren Lagann is a lot more shallow than eva and thus it's themes are a lot easier to present. ttgl is also very preachy about its themes. it takes a side and doesn't really provide any arguments at all for that.
Gurren Lagann is just a series of very simple and trite metaphors while eva is a lot more variety in the tools and languages it uses for presenting it's themes. it's just a lot more complicated and leaves a lot more room for thought. sometimes it's a little bit too obscure just for the sake of it but I prefer that.

>>146352922
My ultimate argument was that he had a ego so fragile it is tied to being better than everyone else by tying his identity to a twenty year old anime and post modern art.

You, however, are starting an argument on his behalf like someone with a hero complex who's bored.

>>146352470
>Eva's plot is simple
Eva's plot is convoluted anon. And the middle episodes are far from being filler. They are just as vital as the last ones.

>>146352507
That's because it's impossible to make a reasonable argument for why Eva is less than very good.

>>146352817
Simon gets a character arc that wast majority of anime characters can only dream of. That being said, you can make pretty much anything look bad by comparing it to Eva.

>>146346776
Idiots like yourself who pollute the fanbase.

>>146347638
>I have an unbiased opinion

No you don't, you literally admitted you approached it knowing it was a classic. There is no such thing as an "unbiased opinion" on EVA, even the people who watched the original run. The major contributing factor for enjoying it is how the show puts a spin on traditional character expectations (e.g. the beta MC, the tsundere, the "dead parents" trope). Therefore those going in pure (having never seen a mecha show) wouldn't understand the satire and those going in with a well versed knowledge in mecha shows would obviously have biases going in.

tl;dr stop being new, nobody respects your opinion more because you're new, you're a self-confessed summerfag

>>146352668
>you denying that goes to prove how gigantic your biases against it are.
But I fucking love Eva and I think I've said that in every reply so far
>the objectives of every party are not straightforward
They're simple enough to get everything you need to out of the story. There's more in the background like there is with every story, but that doesn't make the plot itself difficult to understand or complex
>there are a lot of twists
? I guess the nature of the Evas is sort of a twist, but otherwise things lead into each other pretty nicely. There's a ton of mystery, but that's very different from a twist
> the resolution is very ambiguous
The TV ending makes enough sense, they get the point across just fine with the slice of life / romcom scene. I think EoE is a much worse ending so I wasn't considering it, so sorry if that's what you're referencing
>>146352754
Being wrong and being pretentious are different things
>>146352812
You realize I'm arguing against that person, right? I think Simon is a great character, but calling someone pretentious to try and get them to shut up is just bullshit
>>146352817
His physical strength coincides with his development as a character, yes, but I don't get how that somehow makes him less compelling. It just serves to make his development a much more visual change
>He isn't some social chad who has tons of friends and a girlfriend, and he never will be, because he's Shinji.
All you're doing is explaining how they're different ways of developing the character, due to having entirely different circumstances. Simon is essentially how Shinji would end up if anyone actually gave a shit about him and helped him grow up. You haven't explained how Shinji's arc is somehow better. Both are fantastic characters in my book.
>>146353149
What argument does Eva make for its themes that TTGL does not? They both pretty much shove them in your face and leave you to think whatever.

Disliking Evangelion is more a strike against the viewer's intellect than a strike against the show. Opinions of people who matter have stayed the same. If the general consensus is waning, it's only because anime is more and more in the mainstream. More and more people participate in it, but few approach it as art. Evangelion challenges them and they reject it, preferring things simpler which cater to them directly.

>>146352285
Mecha is a legitimately shit genre though. It's the Isekai of the 80s-90s. Most of the shows in your post are recognized because they went outside the lines of cookie cutter Mecha and appealed to people besides the drone Mecha fans who's pure fascination with Mecha is fantasizing about driving a giant humanoid robot (Which btw, will never happen because Mechs are a wildly inefficient speculative sack of sci-fi garbage technology that will never see the light of day in actual military warfare.

>>146353366
What has a more complex plot than Eva? Penguindrum? Lain? Anyway Eva's plot definitely seems on the complex end of the spectrum to me.

>>146352754

I would not say that, I think it was just poorly planned because you can see they simply run out of episodes.

For most part each episode works until about episode 21 were it starts to fall apart because they had to wrap it up and had no idea how, EoE spends too much time going over bullshit that going over their actual plans, take Gendo and SEELE ... we are told Gendo deliberated created his own scenario but it doesnt say anuying about why it differs from SEELE or why would SEELE have a problem with it, its just there to create tension but its reasoning are flimsy.

I do think people read too much into it were nothing was intended.

>>146353893
Replied to the wrong anon?
Anyway I completely disagree, that's where it starts to get good again after a long series of somewhat generic (but well-done, admittedly) mecha episodes. Did you honestly enjoy the baddie of the week section more than the exploration of Shinji's character that we get at the beginning and end?

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>>146353130
>That would mean that everything Simon goes through is meant to make him stronger, but it does not. Simon could have been that strong from day 1, but he did not grow enough for that to possible.
Whether he had potential or not wasn't the point. Yes, he always had the potential, but there were only two major points in Simon's character development. Kamina's death and Rossiu's faggotry. In both cases, Simon broke off something that was holding him back. He doesn't learn ways to deal with it or ways to cope with it, he just gets over it completely. He's essentially an entirely different person after each event. His personality is intertwined with his power.

>he completely reverses once the show goes on.
He still has a lot of trouble connecting and opening up to people towards the end of the show. The reason Shinji loved Kowaru so much is that Kowaru did all the legwork in the relationship, always talked to him and eagerly listened to him, always invited him to do things, always acknowledged Shinji's entire existence.

>>146353366
I meant "compelling" as in realistic and grounded in reality, characters people really empathize with, but compelling can mean anything to anybody so that was a poor choice in words on my part. Not saying Simon's character development is objectively bad or good, though personally I found it quite boring.

Same with Shinji, I never claimed his development was better. The original claim was that TTGL was just an action anime, not really character focused and with a simple plot. I only brought up Shinji to highlight the difference in character development between him and Simon, and used Shinji as an example of your standard character development. You can replace any character from a character-driven anime with Shinji if you want. Yui (K-On!) becomes more focused, but she is still a lazy airhead. Iroha (HanaSaku) is still stubborn and hardheaded, but she learned to apply that stubbornness in more productive ways.

>>146353844
Lain has one cool idea and there's an incredibly shallow and simple narrative built around it. It's only remembered because aesthetically it's an incredible work
>but it doesnt say anuying about why it differs from SEELE or why would SEELE have a problem with it
This is the major flaw of Eva, agreed. Though I don't think it matters that much to the core of the show, which is entirely focused on Shinji, Asuka, Rei (to a lesser extent), and Misato exploring themselves and essentially why everyone hates themselves. I mean it's a little more relevant in this example (especially if you take EoE into account, the shit version of the ending), but it'd be like questioning the motives behind all the external space shit going on in FLCL...if you're doing that, you're missing the point.

Evangelion would be so much better if it focused on the whole Adam and Lilith stuff instead of mentioning it once in a while and putting in more scenes of Shinji crying.

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>>146354268
>Iroha
Ohana*
Wrong character.

>>146354295
>I wished Evangelion focused more on the sci-fi background noise than the actual point of the show

>>146354453
Great post!

>>146353366
Fine, have it your way. I wont' call you pretentious any more, but what you wrote earlier clearly was pretentious and not correct.

>>146353735
Are you a woman or just extremely effeminate?

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>this fucking thread

So I take it Evangelion is the 40k of the East, but with more mecha and crying?

>>146354531
get back to /Pol/.

>>146354268
>Not saying Simon's character development is objectively bad or good, though personally I found it quite boring.
That's completely fair, I'm not going to be like the other fucks in this thread saying you're stupid if you don't like something.
>The original claim was that TTGL was just an action anime, not really character focused and with a simple plot.
I still disagree with this, except the simple plot which is definitely true (though I don't think it needs to be complex to be good, but that's a different conversation). It's entirely about Simon's development, and the action just serves to make it work visually instead of just telling us. Calling it pure action implies that there's either nothing else, or that the other elements only serve as excuses for the action. I'd call TTGL the exact opposite, it isn't there just to look cool (though it does), it's there to drive home the development of Simon.

And okay, I agree with you on Shinji and Yui having a different kind of development than Simon (and I find all three to be great in that regard), but what's the point in bringing it up? I don't get how that's somehow supposed to lead to the idea that it's just an action show because the development for the main character has a more complete change
>>146354512
Are you fucking retarded? I agree with everything you wrote except that you think "pretentious" is a legitimate criticism. You called someone ELSE pretentious, and I jumped in even though I disagreed with the anon you were replying to. Get it?

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God I love Eva threads

>>146354580
Sanguinus noticed

Yes but edgyer

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>>146354889

Depends

Some 40k stories are absolute dogshit (Battle for the Abyss) whilst others (The Last Church) far surpass anything Evangelion has brought to the table.

>>146354644
>I agree with everything you wrote except that you think "pretentious" is a legitimate criticism.

It is a legitimate criticism. The guy obviously didn't know what he was talking about, that was proven, and so we have this situation:

He pretended to know something he didn't, and argued on that basis.

He was being pretentious, i.e what he said had no factual basis but he claimed to have.

>>146355055
Imagine black crusades except it's robot becoming god and shit and lots of red ring. But basically the same

>>146354644
Well "pure" is an exaggeration, every show has a little bit of everything. I simply meant TTGL has more focus on action than anything else. Instead of developing side characters or plot twists, they throw in action scenes instead. I don't really think the action scenes drive home Simon's character development, most of it was Kamina or Nia telling Simon/others that Simon has potential and Simon's development itself gives him a flat power boost in all aspects.

I used Shinji's example to show that Simon's development is to enhance the action, not to be an excuse for. When Shinji changes, there isn't a big flashy action sequence following it. When Shinji isn't being developed, other characters such as Asuka or Misato are being developed. NGE is the complete opposite in which the action is meant to enhance the characters. The action actually comes before the development.

If you want another example of an action oriented show, look at Gundam Build Fighters. The characters' development is meant to enhance the battle. Fellini vs Reiji wouldn't nearly be as amazing if it weren't for all their interactions before the battle.

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Re:zero has a bitch MC and does it better than NGE.

>>146348796
>or if not what anime do you consider to be deep or deeper than eva?

LotGH

>>146355615
Subaru is a bitch but acts completely differently from Shinji.

Also he's an awful character so fuck off.

>>146347445
It's like Seinfeld.

>>146355641
You have a point.

>>146355662
Subaru tries to not be a bitch. Shinji never man's the fuck up. Throwing tantrums doesn't count.

>>146355842
Trying not be a bitch doesn't change the fact that he's a bitch, a completely retarded autist as well, and that his character is inconsistent as fuck as what type of flaws he's supposed to have and how he's supposed to act.

Because is not original in any form and is full of pretentious in every aspect, I keep laughing at the "demiurge-fags", cringing at the fan base and expecting not mirroring and smoke from "anime experts".

I shouldn't hate anime, but this one has been fucking entire generations in to making more "deep" shit. Japan is a truly fucked up place.

And nobody will ever list everything that is wrong in this anime, too much work and nobody wants to lose time to: "my taste > your taste", neither I, because I hate you too much and I prefer if you don't understand, ever.

Literally "The Nightmare Before Christmas"-tier anime.

It's simple. We hate all the loudmouth eva fans that can't stop shouting about how godly amazing their old piece of shit is. Have you ever dealt with annoying as fuck evangelists that keep trying to get you to go to their church? Yea. It's the same idea. After a while, you hate these fucks and their whole church.

>>146355641
I don't think you know what depth means.

>>146356383
What's the matter, too deep for you?

>>146356383
It's the same with Berserk.

It's all a case of idiots watching a show (or reading a manga) like this for the first time, and being utterly captivated to the point of constantly making threads and banging on about how amazing they thought the show was.

>>146356383
The difference is that they knock on your door then tell you how much better they are than you for being in a cult. Also Rei > Asuka.

>>146356820
Yea. Its too deep for me. I like my animu to be relaxing. Watch cute girls doing cute things. Have a laugh. But NOPE, you fucks have to keep banging on and on about your retarded psedo-intellectual shit and won't give the rest of us a break.

>>146357318
It's not like anyone is forcing you to look at this thread.

>>146357318
I don't know how anyone could buy into that kind of anti-intellectualism. Either way, this is an art board for art discussion, so if you're feeling challenged consider a different website?

>>146357351
You must not know how many EVA threads are up right now. It's more the Re:zero at the moment.

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>>146357351
Lets take a moment to consider this. Right now, there are 7 (SEVEN) eva related threads up right now, not to mention more than 1 at any given time of the day, any day. Note that the filter doesn't even capture all these threads. Can you still say that eva fans arn't being too loud anf annoying?

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>>146357659
It's a good show, eh?

>>146357542
Maybe, just perhaps, you are the vocal minority, and it is you who should get out?

>>146357659
If you dislike the content of this website literally all you have to do is close the tab and never come here again.

>>146357878
Cancerous.

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>>146357878
Yea, how about I come into your eva threads and troll and shitpost as much as I can instead. That sounds better. Here's a start:

>Eva-cucks bootyblasted that Re:Zero is usurping their "throne"

>>146350209
this

the fans

>>146357659
I'm sorry Eva is more interesting to talk about than your fag shit mate

>>146358563
No worries, man. I am sure
>Rei vs Asuka
>Asuka image dump
is much more interesting.

>>146346776
I remember when NGE aired I was just a kid and it was way beyond me.
But a couple of my uncles who would have been around 16 at the time watched it and enjoyed it, naturally the ending cut them, but after seeing the film endings later on it makes more sense.

Anime these days often isn't compelling, with anime about cute girls doing cute things, and bullshit slice of life that is not at all compelling and barely holds a plot with any significant depth OR character development has become what "anime" is considered to be.

and naturally good anime goes straight over the heads of retards who watch that bullshit, thus opinions of the gen. pop. change.

NGE is legit, great animation and production values for its time.

Just a shame about those few recap episodes and that their budget wasn't big enough to carry 2 real last episodes, so they had to improve with lots of super low budget animation and stills of shinji in a chair with people off camera talking.

Still, even that ending makes sense assuming post-instramentality

>>146358703
those threads arent really discussing eva.

there are some fun random way out of context eva conspiracy threads that actually talks about the shows plot etc and not the "best girls"

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>>146357659
Then why don't you fuck off?

>>146358009
so, she cut her hair?

>>146355641
This better be bait

>>146346776
I had the opposite reaction, lowering my expectations cause of the haters. I don't know how anyone could look at the popular series of today and put Eva on their level of shallow bullshit. Its no masterpiece to me, but its leagues above most anime

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhxEx_cfPJE
This or cruel angel's thesis better be playing on /a/ when 4.0 gets announced.
God help us when the Eva generals come back again for years.

>>146360256

Hopefully they remove the ability to post on /a/ when that time comes.

It's funny how people claim no anime has thematic depth, yet I've never seen anyone give an example of any works of other mediums with greater thematic depth than Evangelion.

I'm sure there are a lot of deep philosophy books and what not, but out of accessible media made for entertainment, I can't think of anything that's even close to Evangelion in terms of thematic depth.

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>>146360866
>I can't think of anything that's even close to Evangelion in terms of thematic depth.

>>146361144
Give him a break, it'd be wrong to assume your average anime fan has any experience in the arts.

>>146361989
Literally pretentions bullshit. Thats why arty faggots are the worst. Get a real grounding in sciences, faggot.

No

FEWLS, BEHOLD

THIS IS TRUE ART

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM