CGI is the next thing?

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>>145760825

One word
Berserk

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>>145760825

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>>145760825
I've recently watched Aijin and Berserk with said CGI. It took about 3-4 episodes to get really used to it. It's still slightly sup-par at best.
And i can't get over fucking pucks CGI expressions and how it's just a general model change. Fuck thats disgusting.

>>145760825
Complete garbage, ajin and berserk have been ruined by it.

Its fine when you use cgi for background characters and other shit. But not when you go full retard like ajin.

CGI, if used correctly, can save a studio a lot of time, and make fight scenes really smooth.

Used badly, however, like Beserk 2016, coupled with bad directing, horrible sound effects

*"CLANG" Anyone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd912tf6ois*.

Example of good CGI is the intros of JOJO.

>>145760825
it's pretty good
don't listen to the manchildren naysayers, cgi is the future

I really like Polygon's CG, the lighting makes a lot of scenes look really nice, BLAME is probably going to look great but I'm not holding out hope that they improve the framerate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPWj_4RtKr0

What do you think of this cgi on the right, regardless of the comparison with the original? I was tricked by the shading at first

>>145760825
pretty bad desu

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The only time I have seen good CGI usage was in Rebuild of Evangelion and Gundam Unicorn. You can't even spot the CGI in those half the time, outside of the transformation sequence. The CGI and 2d animation blends well, too.

Pic related is good CGI. It could easily be drawn or CGI.

>>145764324
I think Unicorn in traced CGI

>>145764298
I noticed immediately when I looked up the OP a while ago, is the entire BD edition like this or just the opening?

>>145764360
Just the op I guess

Nah fuck CGI

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>>145764354
Well definitely not all the time, maybe for some scenes. The only time the CGI was jarring was full armor unicorn (due to how complex of a monstrosity it was), and even then it was better than 99% of CGI from other anime.

And if we're not talking about mechs, then forget it. CG people in anime will always look like shit. And if your budget is so big that it doesn't look like shit, you should just be drawing it anyway.

>>145764517
>CG people in anime will always look like shit
When they realise they need to do more to mimic 2D than just cap the framerate CG will start to look better.

The only good CGI anime (art-wise, not plot wise) I've seen was God Eater. It was really hard to distinguish it. This being said - they have blown enormous amounts of budget on it and they still had gigantic delays so right now 2D animation is still cheaper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LssPD8CWJ2M

>>145764550
2D does not move most of the time. If they try to mimic that with 3D, they will just have a bunch of statues standing around.

2d and 3d do not mix. THAT is what they have to realize. They cannot use one to emulate the other. They are mutually exclusive in every conceivable way.

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ERABE

>only CGI anime
>only Taiwanese puppet shows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVlDoKyOVxg
>No anime

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>>145764621
>2D does not move most of the time. If they try to mimic that with 3D, they will just have a bunch of statues standing around.
Then they'll have to figure out why CG stands out so much in the exact same positions people don't mind 2D being in.

>2d and 3d do not mix.
Right now they don't in future they will.

>They cannot use one to emulate the other. They are mutually exclusive in every conceivable way.
A lot of people have already put a lot of effort into mimicking 2D and without the extra detail CG brings like realistic lighting and the general perfectness it'll look a heck of a lot like 2D.

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>>145764788
>>145764621

Here's more from the creator of that gif.

>>145760825

It will be fine only when they reach this level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prGqE6T2JAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZi0neoZJfM

>>145764788
They can make 3D look good for people, but it won't look like anime.

Your average anime scene has 2 or 3 characters on the screen, completely stationary in one spot, with only their mouths moving between "open" and "shut". This works ok with 2d, but 3d has to be moving in order not to look awkward. You can't replicate anime scenes in 3d unless they are action scenes. If you do, everyone just looks like lifeless puppets.

However, this works perfect for mecha. Robots can stand perfectly still without looking awkward. Their movements are robotic anyway, so the robotic nature of 3d animation lends itself perfectly to them. So as much as I don't like 3d mecha, at least it makes SENSE. There is a real good reason to make mechas 3D, as they go hand-in-hand.

Why is the CGI so bad?
Seems to me CGI must be getting expensive since CGI 10 years ago looked 10 times better.

>>145764911
As I said >Then they'll have to figure out why CG stands out so much in the exact same positions people don't mind 2D being in.

Do people notice that sort of thing because they're not used to CG and are trying to nitpick? Is it something about the faces the animators make with CG? I really don't think it's as simple as it just not working.

>>145760825
Ajin has pretty good action scenes

CGI can work if done right

>>145764947
CGI requires hiring people with very specialized knowledge. Most of these people spent 4-6 years in schooling and interning. 3D animators are much more educated and demanding than your average 2d animator.

So, they cost more (good ones anyway), and the demand is higher.

>>145764947
CG costs more and is more technically demanding and for some reason they think clipping the framerate is a great idea.

>>145764997
That's what I don't understand, is it still relatively more cost effective than 2D animation?

>>145765100
It depends on the anime but CG tends to be a bit more expensive.

>>145765100
Yes and no.

Once you create a 3d model and rig it with a skeleton, you can reuse that same 3d model over and over as many times as you want without ever having to redraw it. You create an animation set for it, and just reuse those same animations over and over, while keying other animations in between.

tl;dr you can copy and paste 3d shit, but not 2d shit (for the most part).

So, for the longer the series runs, the more cost effective it is to use CGI. But for a single movie or 12 episode anime, I'm not sure. 3D would likely be more expensive.

We can expect to see even more full CG productions in the future, but it's unlikely 2D animation will just die off any time soon.

Ajin worked quite well, berserk hams together bad CG with low budget drawn animation.

>>145765178
Tomino needs to force his crack team of animators he's got locked in the cupboard to teach animation, it really is a shame how 2D animation is dying out for certain things.

>>145760825
just like when you use it in live action it can be really useful and save a lot of time and money when doen right, but when done wrong it looks terrible. It should be used sparingly.

I dunno. CGI for Sidonia looked weird, and CGI for Berserk isn't all that great--although it doesn't help that it's comparing amateurish, censored shit to Miura's absurdly detailed original artworks some of which could be framed and hung in a museum.

CGI looks like DOGSHIT in westerner's hands, thoughs. Out of curiosity for that redhead I watched that western RWBY show. It looked like a cheap video game, with screenwriting done by Gaia.

>>145760832
>>145761801
the whole higher framerate but which doesn't look nearly as fast enough so it looks like a s videogame that's dropping frames like crazy combined with the 2d face and expressions look horrible.

>>145765402
>CGI looks like DOGSHIT in westerner's hands, thoughs
Are you fucked? Westerners are the only people who know how to make good CGI. RWBY is some indie shit, doesn't count.

Japan needs to step up their shit, we already know how to CGI over here.

>>145765436
Well obviously the multi million dollar productions don't count.

>>145765222
It's a shame, but the solid forms of mechanical objects are a good fit for CGI. There are some young animators out there who can do mechanical animation, but there aren't many opportunities these days when many productions are happy to use CG for anything mechanical.

>>145760825
I hope not, but Otaku are accepting it.

>>145764911
If hand-drawn reserves movement for essential actions, CG can limit broad movement to essential actions. If that feels too lifeless by itself, add in subtle fidgeting, breathing, and pupil motion. Video games have been working around that problem for a decade.

>>145765402
Sidonia had major growing pains. TV airing of the first few episodes was sub-16 FPS, which is only caused by not enough render time. Whether that was budget or unfamiliarity with the production of CG anime, it was gone by the second season. Ajin's been solid all-around, so Polygon's had whatever plagued Sidnoia cured.

>>145764550
Guilty Gear Xrd is at great anime emulation I think

>>145765644
>TV airing of the first few episodes was sub-16 FPS, which is only caused by not enough render time.
You have a source for that or is this mere conjecture?

>>145760825
>Ajin
Is this good? Should I read the manga?

>>145765644
>Sidonia had major growing pains. TV airing of the first few episodes was sub-16 FPS, which is only caused by not enough render time
I watched his TED talk and he didn't mention this, are you sure?

>>145765694
Wtf they were at TED? How, why?

>>145765644
>add in subtle fidgeting, breathing, and pupil motion. Video games have been working around that problem for a decade.
That's fine, but it won't feel like anime. It will feel like watching a video game cutscene.

If that is your goal, then that works out. But most people here like the way anime feels.

>>145765690
The main character and villain are sociopaths.

Watch the show and if that can hold your interest then read it.

>>145765718
TEDx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba5Jl1_JKZY

>>145765719
>That's fine, but it won't feel like anime. It will feel like watching a video game cutscene.
Akira had this sort of animation and it felt fine.

>>145765750
Sociopaths like the ones in IBO and Aldnoah Zero? If so then I might pass.

>>145765808
No crazy madmen kind. They get pretty inventive with the way they kill themselves.

>>145764825
Where is that from anyway? Got more of it?

>>145765885
https://twitter.com/kohta0130/status/717555450799984640

>>145765808
No they're the kind of people who crash planes into buildings.

>>145765957
With no survivors?

>>145765972
Yes.

>>145765676
>>145765694
>a source for that
The framerate or the render time? For the framerate, dig around TT or Nyaa for the TV episodes (if they still have seeds), and check out the first episode's initial action sequence. For the render time, that's a fundamental of CG: for a number of frames x with an average per-frame render time of y and a time budget of z, you reduce x or y until z >= y*x. Compromising image quality isn't a good idea, so cutting framerate is the typical choice.

>>145765719
Sounds like you're talking a literal stance on how people perceive visual media. Matching the motion tempo of hand-drawn while adding more motion fidelity will result in what feels like a high-budget anime; smaller details are irrelevant if the form matches.

>>145760825
It can be, but It's rarely good, If you want CGI you have Pixar or something, if you're watching chinese cartoons is because you like chinese cartoons.

>>145766045
The frame rates in Sidonia looked consistent to me, it was using limited animation consistently at variable frame rates much like how the industry currently uses 2D animation. Maybe the first episode had some timing issues as the animators were trying to find the right timing for certain actions but really it's not like Sidonia was Polygon's first project.

>>145766140
>>145766045
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1GdoUDBsaE
Here's a scene from ep1

>>145766171
Yeah, that's pretty much like the rest of the show. Anyway, the limited framerate is a stylistic choice (whether it's good is another issue), not because they have no time to render it. CG anime studios want their works to look and move like how 2D anime would, hence the current approach to animating.

>>145766140
>really it's not like Sidonia was Polygon's first project
Of course, but it was their first TV anime project. And to the best of my memory, the first full-cour CG-only TV anime. 18+ months years for 60-90min of footage is much more lenient than ~9 months for 250min. And OVA budgeting is different (read: higher) than TV. I can easily imagine that the resources given to Polygon were given on an underestimation on the render time, so they briefly compromised framerate so the first episode could hit airtime.

>>145766400
Arpeggio came first, but that was by Sanzigen. Polygon Pictures did Tron:Uprising before Sidionia, but that was for western clients. Still, it had the same animation techniques.

> so they briefly compromised framerate so the first episode could hit airtime.
Unless you have something more than conjecture, I really don't see this as the case. The frame rates have been handled similarly across the show and like I said here, >>145766247 it's a stylistic choice.

>>145766400
Sidonia was only 57TB big, that can't have taken too long to render surely? Especially with "a networked mesh of 3700 nodes of CPUs"

>>145766573
Well my PC is very powerful, and rendering a single shot can take hours. It just depends on the shot.

>>145766630
Bad wording, I meant a single frame.

>>145766556
It's conjecture. Though I don't find "style choice" compelling when that low framerate for for select action sequences in the first TV episodes, then raised for subsequent TV episodes and in the BD release. It would be very irrational for Polygon to deliberately choose a "style" of low quality.

>>145766573
Depends on the frame, depends on the CPUs. Some clusters are econ, some are Watson.

>>145766795
>>145765644
>It would be very irrational for Polygon to deliberately choose a "style" of low quality.

Yet that's exactly what they do. You should read this.

>Another common misconception is that anime 3DCG runs at a lower frame rate because they can’t manage to render it better.

https://sakugablog.yshi.org/2016/08/01/embracing-the-3dcg-menace-ambitious-action-girls-und-panzer-the-movie/

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CGI thread?

>>145767271
Looks like shit. My students had better projects in animation 1.

>>145767024
2s/3s argument would be plausible if and only if their use was consistent over the course of at least one episode. Yet the episodes where Sidonia had lower framerate had the low rates limited to certain scenes while the rest of the episode ran at 24.

And I'd question the article's bias. "It’s close to impossible to capture the charm of hand drawn mechanical work" with CG because "2D mecha cuts tend to move fairly organically"? There's been more than 20 years of believable CG animation in film. "A relatively new technique can’t compare to many decades of craft" and "just a few moments of traditional animation by the same crowd showed it could have all been much better"? Sounds like luddism.

gdgd fairies is still the pinnacle of modern CG animation

>>145767271
>>145767501
this feels like a similar problem to Peter Jackson's High framerate. Is it technically an objectively better format with a clearer image and less blur? Yes. Does it also throw out close to a century of style that has been iterated upon and used by everyone and become synonymous with the medium? Yes it does. Anime only looks good because we've accepted that style and all that goes with it. Changing it like this is jarring. And in this particular case I'm not convinced that you can mix the 2d with the 3d. The really simple 2d facial animations mixed with the fluid body movement just looks really crap.

>>145767738
I'm pretty sure that's full CG.

>>145767738
>Does it also throw out close to a century of style that has been iterated upon and used by everyone and become synonymous with the medium?
But people love it when the the framerate of 2D animation gets bumped up, just look at Akira.

>>145767620
>while the rest of the episode ran at 24
It didn't though. A lot of the scenes used very limited animation, especially the non-action scenes. The animation approach was rather similar to how a 2D production would've handled it; merely functional animation for most of the part, then saving more animation for action scenes while using frame modulation as the animators saw fit.

>>145767738
To me, it just obviously looks like CG. If you are gonna cheat and use CG for movement intensive sequences, at least disguise the fact that you are using 3d models.

Sadly, there are very few instances I can recall in anime where they hid the CG well, and all of those instances were mecha.

>>145760825
Did anyone forget live2d exists?

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>>145768368
>it just obviously looks like CG
Why would CG not look like CG

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I like Bubuki Buranki's CG.

>>145769534
My nigga. Excited for s2?

>>145768467
>live2d

AHAHAHA

Literally only good for CGs for games and those anime preview skits that Asterisk War does and stuff, making an entire anime with it would be ass

>>145770555
Episode preview skits*