Fate

About damn time he realized his main characters are shit.

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>>145739144
Because Shirou and Sakura are the canon couple. Heaven's Feel is the final route because the first two prepare you for it.

Every character screams at Shirou that he's wrong, in the first route Saber supports him and he goes full retard. In the second route Rin doesn't support his ideal but doesn't demand that he stops being retarded, so he goes full retard. The entire VN is about Shirou being wrong but being too stubborn to realize that living like a machine is not living.


Third and final route, Shirou abandons his ideal finally and even kills Saber, the representation of his ideal and the heroine that supported it. He then goes on to live his life, a fairly ordinary one which is what he and Sakura always wanted(why do you think they enjoy doing things so mundane like cooking or just being at home? Because they're both broken people that deep down just want peace).

Even fucking Urobutcher said that what Shirou/Saber and Shirou/Rin have is not love and Shirou/Sakura is the only couple that truly represents love, Nasu agreed.

>>145740570
Wormslut Fanboy

>>145740570
This is exactly the reason people dislike Heaven's Feel, the idea that is superior to the other routes, because it represents Shirou being an adult or some such.

>>145740570
You realize Garden of Avalon and FGO is connecting everything to Fate route?

>>145741446
>FGO

AHAHAHAHAH

>>145741867
Well, Nasu is writing the chapters and said everything is canon, so you can laugh as much as you want.

>>145741867
It's the main Nasuverse work right now. Garden of Avalon was prelude to it, which has Saber of FATE route in it. Mentioned again in Camelot chapter as the 'King of Avalon'. Waver in Accel Zero event already took down the Grail with Rin and when he talks about her never says she's in a relationship with a ginger Japanese guy who also helped them (meaning it's Fate route). Vanilla Saber summon has the lion stuffed toy.

>>145740570
>Even fucking Urobutcher said that what Shirou/Saber and Shirou/Rin have is not love and Shirou/Sakura is the only couple that truly represents love, Nasu agreed.

I would not use Butcher as an example, because his idea of love was men "forgiving the dark sides of women" and didn't acknowledge that both Shirou and Sakura were both flawed people. The guy's talk about the character relationships made him sound more than a little gay.

Plus the guy wanted a five year old to torture the guy who she cared about as if he were her real uncle until Nasu stopped him, and his dream is for Dark Sakura to rule hell with Spawn. I wish I made this up, but this guy is that edgy.

>>145739144
well FGO is shit so Rin and Shirou don't even need that. Only weak character like Sakura need spin off

>>145739144
The hints are that GO Saber might actually be Archer's Saber.

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>>145740570
Reminder that Sakura stole Illya's route.

>>145739144
Are you forgetting that UBW got the most thorough anime adaptation out of any of the routes, and Nasu personally wrote an epilogue that said they'd live happily ever after?

I feel like you're trying to stir up a shitty waifu war, especially with your blind speculation that Rin will go after Gil's dick.

Nasu said that out of the three heroines in FSN, Rin was his favorite.

>>145743122
>never says she's in a relationship with a ginger Japanese guy who also helped them (meaning it's Fate route)

Quite the jump in conclusions. That seems very much ambiguous, which is something Nasu loves doing.

You're projecting your own preferences onto things.

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>>145743712

Don't worry, Illya got 3 seasons of her own show and her beloved Onii-chan

>>145740570
Urobuchi calls Rin the true heroine of the VN.

> think the true heroine of Fate/stay night is Rin. In the Rin route, an equal relationship with a woman who's become stronger than men is depicted. Rin and Shirou mend each other's weaknesses with their own unique strengths, and I think it makes for a very nice relationship.

>>145743844

No he didn't

He clearly said Illya was his favorite and Rin was a mistake

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>>145743916
She also gets to make out with herself and another grail.

>>145739144
>he could have made the protagonist of FGO, the son/daughter of Rin and Shirou, instead there's no Fuyuki Fire or Shirou Emiya in that timeline
Rin and Shirou maybe get together in 2004. F/GO takes place in 2016. That would mean, if Shirou knocked up Rin very first thing as part of their relationship, the protagonist would be at best 12 years old, when they are clearly a full adult.
Wildly out of place and out of character.

>>145743951

Again, like I told the other guy when I disagreed about Butcher being pro-Sakura (Sakurafag here). You should take Butcher's words with a grain of salt, his view on love and relationships is kind of twisted.

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>>145744122

Illiya is super lucky, she gets to be around people who love on her and she is the star

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>>145744131
The fact that the male protagonist has been stated to be designed around as looking like a genderbent version of Rin just goes to show Nasu and Takeuchi like the character.

I mean shit, she was the female protagonist of Capsule Monsters too.

>>145744239
I take everything that man writes with a grain of salt, especially in terms of relationships, I was just pointing that Butcher not liking Shirou and Rin is bull.

I mean there's plenty of other bull in that post, but I don't want to dissect it all and reach the character limit.

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>>145744297

>Capsule Monsters
As in Pre-Pokemon Capumon?

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>>145744424
Capsule Monsters was a game added in the Vita version of FHA. Featured two campaigns with a young Shirou and Rin using servants as pseudo Pokemon.

Had a wacky story.

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>>145744582

You had me going there for a second. I was about to go down the trivia foxhole

>>145739144
>go after Gilgamesh's dick
Have you ever read the epic of Gilgamesh? She'll go after everyone's dick, just like Rin does.

>>145744122
>what if we took a serious VN
I'm too lazy to post the whole thing.

>>145744834
Rin has only really ever gone after one dick. She's gone after several clits though.

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>>145744903

I dunno, Illiya is pretty fun for a magical girl's anime. It's like a little bit of Fate Stay with some Carnival Phantasm

>>145739144
Does Shirou compare well to Subaru?

>>145745344
He's a sword, not a car.

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>Sakura will never get her own show

>>145742833
>Well, Nasu is writing the chapters
He writes some of them, like 2 or 3.

>>145745344
Sword autist vs retard
You decide

>>145744582

>the inevitable Black Blossom

See, this here is pretty important. People try to make the argument that Nasu hates Sakura, but the guy is just a goof.

He has thus boner about making her a final boss (his blurb about the girl who can corrode the environment in the UBW Q&A, and Takeuchi saying Sakura's powers are fit for a final boss cement it), when he knows the character herself would rather be by Shirou's side kicking ass as a partner (damn you Hiroyama, you had to open old wounds in Prisma).

It's even why we got that G-Sakura storyline for Capsule Servant, where Sakura was (again) made into an experiment by her father's autism. Nasu just has a very black sense of humor for a chuuni guy. It's never been him hating her. He does it to everyone at some point.

Nasu, I hope you are writing up some good stuff for the HF movie, at the very least, Sakura meeting Dilo in detail please.

>>145745693
He was originally going to write 2, but the urge to write anything other than the Tsukihime Remake took him and he's done 3 already and is definitely doing the 4th. He also did two of the major events I believe (Garden of Order and Chateau d'If).

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Moshi moshi

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>>145740570
I kinda agree with this if I'm forced with a gun to pick one and only one canon route. Heaven's Feel is also the best fit thematically from F/Z.

Feels like both in Fate and UBW Shirou went full retard and keeps getting rewarded by plotarmor and hax powers to go on being retarded.

However arguing amongst ourselves is futile, you can believe whatever you want, whether it's a multiverse with 3 branching routes, or even a multiverse with 6 branching routes counting the Realta Nua versions. Noone is arguing whether Shirou went to help Sakura or Shirou went to finish his daily routine first (your first, fairly inconsequential branching option in the game). For me personally the best ending is the Tiger Dojo ending in UBW where Shirou got murdered by Archer because Archer is so goddamn right and it serves that retarded ginger right. Remember the Tiger Dojo ending is just as canon as the true ending of each route

>>145746051
Archer is not right. That's the point. The fact that you don't understand that means UBW flew over your head.

>>145746177
Well my Tiger Dojo ending is just as canon as UBW true ending and there's nothing you can do about it

>>145746250
Sure, but Archer is not right.

If you read UBW, and that's what you took away from it, you didn't understand it.

Shirou is not 'retarded'. He sees, through the memories Archer gives him, all the struggles he may go up against when following a path of being a hero, and accepts them all, because in the end, they're worth it.

Archer grew jaded from his past and his own beliefs, and looked back at himself as thinking it was all bluster and naivete. Seeing Shirou in his prime take it all in, and still decide to move forward, made him reevaluate himself, rather than screeching at Shirou that he's wrong.

>>145746394
I mean look at the entire narrative surrounding the Archer fight. There isn't a single choice to be had. There are no bad ends, no options for you, the player, to intervene, and capitulate to what Archer is saying.

Shirou has only one path he is willing to take there, and he has no regrets in it.

>>145746177
>>145746394
Archer is right in how it will end for Shirou. His ideal is incompatible with reality. Persisting in spite of that, the best he can do is shrug and accept the results. The only thing Archer is wrong about is that, he didn't want to accept the results.

>>145746553
Shirou cannot save everyone, but wanting to save everyone isn't wrong, and his actions led to many lives being saved. The results are shown clearly by the end of the route, where Shirou, proving himself to be a hero, thwarts Gilgamesh's plans and saves the city.

The recent addendum Nasu wrote for UBW also clarifies that Shirou's end isn't the same as Archer's.

He goes past him.

We don't know where UBW Shirou ends. He may die a few steps after walking over that sand dune, or he may go on to live a long life balancing being a hero, and having a family with Rin, but the important take away, is that his 'fate', is left unwritten.

>>145746676
>but the important take away, is that his 'fate', is left unwritten.
>fate
B R A V O N A S U

>>145743951
But Rin loves Archer more than Shirou.

>>145746792
thats wrong tho

>>145746803
How so?

>>145746921
In UBW, she always picks Shirou's side, and treats Archer like he's about to fucking betray her.

Then he does.

>>145746394
>Sure, but Archer is not right.
Sure but neither is Shirou. Archer is less wrong than Shirou

>>145747036
But Shirou is right. It's not wrong to want to help people. He likely can't save everyone, but he will do his best, because that's what a hero does.

There's nothing really wrong about Shirou's conclusion in UBW. It's very sound.

>>145747118
Bear in mind, I'm not speaking ill of the choices made in the other routes. Those Shirous more often than not had solid reasoning for their conclusions as well.

But in terms of UBW, there is very little ground for Archer being right in the end.

>>145747118
>It's not wrong to want to help people.
True

>He likely can't save everyone, but he will do his best, because that's what a hero does.

This would be fine, but that's now what he thinks. He keep throwing tantrum about muh ideal without a single hint of nuance. According to his own unnatainable ideal he's a hypocrite because he should've donated all his money and mansion to feed starving people in Africa

>>145746965
She runs straight to Archer after his fight with Shirou and offers to heal him. Then she does this again at the very end. She has way more chemistry with Archer than with Shirou and she doesn't always agree with Archer because she wants to save him. She wants to save Archer, not Shirou. Shirou just reminds her of Archer.

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>>145747266
>This would be fine, but that's now what he thinks

No, that is what he thinks.

Shirou knows he can't save everyone, but he will do his best.

And regarding your second point, he spends most of his life in the middle east fighting terrorists as a result of his decisions. His actions aren't all talk. I mean that's the very reason there's plot after the Archer fight. He reaches a mental conclusion, but he needs to see it through by dealing with a real threat.

All this is both in the VN and the anime.

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>>145739144

Who fucking cares? we UBW patricians got our happily ever after with great animation and music, let the plebs have their side material and mobile games (RLFMAO)

>>145747400
Nah, you're misremembering things. She calls out for shirou first. She says she would heal Archer, but remember, he was mortally wounded, while Shirou came out the victor.

In the end, Rin doesn't even particularly spend a lot of time with Archer in UBW. Even before the betrayal she's reluctant to use him because she finds him suspicious.

Most of her frustration comes from the fact that he's still Shirou in the end.

>>145747431
Also, in terms of the mansion, I'm pretty sure until Shirou is of age, Taiga's family is noted to be handling all the technical stuff involving housing and money for him.

Archer is "wrong" because he still follows his ideal even if he doesn't believe in it. In UBW Shirou realizes that even if his ideal is flawed and borrowed he will believe in it because that's who he is, he will become a fake that is better than the original.

>>145747431
>he spends most of his life in the middle east fighting terrorists as a result of his decisions

That's an ebin conclusion befitting a hero complex ginger retard with 3 working brain cells like Shirou. If you truly want to do the best good in the world, then anything sans donating raw money to alleviate hunger and save lives in Africa is not the best use of your resources. Why bother fighting terrorist, risking collateral damage and turning more innocent civilian into terrorist while $25 can feed a village in Africa.

>>145747763
Because that would make for a boring story. This is a franchise about magic and heroes and beamspam, not charitable contributions.

>>145747763
Because Shirou actually has capabilities far beyond that of a normal human, that allows him to take on threats en masse. He can create temporary swords that can be pinpoint used to kill people. He is using his strengths far better than trying to luck himself into substantial money and reworking the world that way.

>>145747504
Yeah, Rin was closer to Archer in the other routes, where Rin relies more on him and was a bit closer than in UBW.

>>145747923
Providing raw resources doesn't necessarily lead to change, either. Archer was known for attacking corrupt political figures- this is why he was feared by various governments.

>>145747504
>but remember, he was mortally wounded
No, he wasn't. Even Shirou knew you can't kill a servant with a wound he inflicted. His victory was merely symbolic.
>In the end, Rin doesn't even particularly spend a lot of time with Archer in UBW.
She spends the whole route dreaming his dreams. That's the whole reason why she interacts with Shirou and takes him out on the date.
>Most of her frustration comes from the fact that he's still Shirou in the end.
They stress the fact that Shirou and EMIYA are not the same person.

>>145747829
I think it would fit UBW ending really well if Shirou learns from his ordeal, ends up becoming a Machiavellian Japanese company Zaibatsu overlord, just to donate 99% of his money to charity anonymously. It goes well with the theme "sometimes you need to sacrifice someone, but this is for the greater good."

>>145748069
And then it turns out the organization he donated to was a scam

>>145748123
Well any philanthropist with half a brain would manage their own charity like Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Or you can be an anonymous board member and donor while controlling everything behind the scene. Anyway we're going off on too much of a tangent here.

>>145748053
Archer was nearly out of mana. He was on his death bed. Shirou wasn't.

Shirou and Rin's relationship starts to develop before she even has a single dream regarding Archer. You are misremembering things. Her first one doesn't happen until they decide to make a pact and become allies.

Rin specifically talks, after Gil 'killed' him, that she's mad because even if Archer was an asshole, he was still Shirou at his core.

You are allowing interactions in other routes and fanon to cloud what really happens in UBW. Throughout most of the story, they are at complete odds, and don't even interact.

>>145748053
>No, he wasn't
He disappeared right after that bro

>>145748053
>She spends the whole route dreaming his dreams. That's the whole reason why she interacts with Shirou and takes him out on the date.
Nice speedreading

I'm still amazed how obnoxious Rinfags got following UBW anime.

Where they want to be the canon ending now with special London follow up story all about Shirou and Rin, and they feel like Nasu hates them now because Nasu didn't make the FGO main characters into Rin and Shirou's perfect strong self insert little children in order to cement them even more as canon so they can attempt to gloat. Its always either thinking Nasu hates them and they were screwed over, or "Haha, we're the real shit, other girls a shit".

If they aren't being catered to specially now, like Saber once was, then its somehow wrong.

>>145747923
>Because Shirou actually has capabilities far beyond that of a normal human, that allows him to take on threats en masse. He can create temporary swords that can be pinpoint used to kill people. He is using his strengths far better than trying to luck himself into substantial money and reworking the world that way.

Or you know, he can live off being a magician like Penn Jillette/Criss Angel and rake in a lot of surefire dosh for charity. Let's just agree that Shirou is not the brightest of the bulb to carry on his ideal

>>145748344
Only morons and shitposters talk about things like a, "canon ending" in Fate.

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>>145740570

>>145748396
Shirou's ability is literally to make swords, and if he was to exploit his powers to such a great degree, the Association would be on his ass. I mean in FHA, there was a talk about how Shirou couldn't risk selling his projections for fear of him getting sealed.

No really, given his options, using his magical ability to create pointy killing things and use them to become a mercenary, was actually fairly logical.

>>145743886
>ambiguous
>Garden of Avalon which is the prologue to FGO has Continuation of the Dream ending and mentions of Saber having an amazing encounter to have her reject the Holy Grail

Anon...

>>145748344
Rinfags were always obnoxious. From day 1, they were spamming and forcing memes about the other girls being sluts.

>>145745592
Movies are prettier anyway.

>>145743637
There are several Sabers.

Fate route Saber is in Avalon (probably Grand Saber). And summonable Saber is likely Emiya's because there's something between them. There's also Lancer Arturia who must be from FGO timeline who never met Shirou.

>>145748516
Yeah, that easily could be the Archer route, which is described as basically Fate without the romance.

>>145743739
>I feel like you're trying to stir up a shitty waifu war, especially with your blind speculation that Rin will go after Gil's dick.

Rin is possessed by Ishtar and Gil's my room lines is already telling her to get the fuck out. Ishtar's target is Gilgamesh's dick since the beginning. She'll also like (you).

>>145748526
Yeah because there aren't memes about Rin pleasing old men for money, right?

Get off your fucking high horse.

>>145748573
>Yeah, that easily could be the Archer route, which is described as basically Fate without the romance

What the fuck are you babbling about please elaborate

>>>/vg/
>>>/vg/

>>145748662
Unlimited Blade Works BD set II: Q: What was the Fifth Grail War that Heroic Spirit Emiya experienced in his lifetime like? Was the Archer summoned there also Emiya?
Nasu: It was a world where the conditions at the beginning of the war were mostly the same, but something was missing. Shirou summoned Saber and fought until the end, didn't save Saber's heart but understood her, and they destroyed the grail together and parted... that's the image I have.
Takeuchi: Ahh, so something like a Fate route Good End we didn't make in the game?!
Nasu: Yeah, probably. After that, it is believed he cooperates with Rin who survived, and heads to London.

Yeah, basically Archer's route was Fate without the whole fucking King Athur stint.

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>>145744424
>>145744582
It also gave us the greatest , most fiscally irresponsible Heroic Spirit of all!

>>145748573
Archer's route Saber was never saved. That's why Archer is salty in general. She could be the summon Saber though. See >>145748570 The Saber that was saved is in Avalon and the reason why Merlin gave a shit about the world, sending his familiar to help it. He was going to waste his time in breaking up to give her a happy ending if that hadn't happened. Camelot chapter references her too.

Sorry but HF and UBW are pretty irrelevant to Type Moon World building now.

>>145748748
He never said it was without the romance, retard. He simply said that he couldn't get her to give up the Holy Grail. Fate Shirou didn't either, even after their date and all that shit. What changed her happened in the basement. It also helped him to get over his issues.

And anyway, Gacha Saber and EMIYA are a couple in FGO. But there's another Saber in Avalon which Merlin referenced in FGO and GoA. That's Fate route Saber.

And there's also the Goddess Artoria who wields Rhon.

>>145748653
That happens to be called justified retribution. It's also not nearly as obnoxious as shit like >>145741143.

>>145748748
He doesn't say anything about no romance, he simply couldn't save her. Did you think the 'romance' saved her? If you do, you need to re-read Fate route again.

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>yfw Bedivere was basically HF Shirou but Arturia was his Saber
>yfw Agravain is a reverse Shinji

>>145748860
>>145748953
>He simply said that he couldn't get her to give up the Holy Grail

No he didn't. He clearly says they destroy the grail.

>didn't save Saber's heart
>heart

Missing that word? Romance didn't really work out, if there was any.

>>145748265
Archer also betrayed her and he's not a human while Shirou is.

Rin obviously has a crush on Shirou before the start but she doesn't grow attached to him until Archer appears.

Archer was a Shirou but Shirou in UBW is not him, not her Shirou.

I don't think we should be discarding other routes they're still the same characters just put into different situations.

>>145749018
*Sakura

>>145743637
>>145748570
>>145748778
Will Archer ever get a happy ending with Saber?

Would he prefer Adult Saber?

>>145749060
Well they don't really particularly start to interact until Archer appears.

The dreams Rin has allow her to grow closer to Shirou, but she doesn't see him as a surrogate Archer. They don't interact and grow on good enough terms for that to even make sense.

In Fate and HF, Rin and Archer are pretty amicable, but in UBW, due to issues regarding Shirou, Rin grows to distrust Archer fairly early. That's why you can't really solidly count their interactions in the other routes.

>>145749193
Saber doesn't deserve Archer, she deserves Gilgamesh or some other 1 dimensional shitter

>>145749193
Archer has bad luck in love, so he probably will never get a happy ending.

>>145749046
>No he didn't. He clearly says they destroy the grail.

Anon, to save Saber, she has to wholly give up her quest of the Holy Grail. Are you stupid or wilfull ignorant of this fact? Merlin even spells it out to you in GoA if you don't want to hunt Nasu's interviews.

>Missing that word? Romance didn't really work out, if there was any.

This has shit to do with romance. Fate Shirou wouldn't have been able to save her either if he didn't go down the basement that day. It wasn't the romance who saved her, but the realization she was right all along and was satisfied to protect someone she cared about (anyone) as a knight. This she learned because Shirou rejected to regret and reject the tragedy of the previous Grail War. Also it healed him of his survivor's guilt trauma which is confirmed EMIYA still has and was one of his issues. Most likely they were missing that scene of the basement, without it, Shirou becomes EMIYA and Saber becomes FGO Arturia, who by the way, is in a relationship with him.

And has the lion stuffed toy according to fgo/complete material, the toy he got her in a date.

>>145746394
>Shirou is not 'retarded'. He sees, through the memories Archer gives him, all the struggles he may go up against when following a path of being a hero, and accepts them all, because in the end, they're worth it.

I'd normally agree with you, but UBW didn't conclude that Archer was totally wrong either. Not living for yourself and becoming a machine, a martyr for the people, can be wrong too. And there are also people who will use single minded individuals like that to foster evil designs or instigate all sorts of shit.

And then there are those who end up in the middle without the shield of "righetousness" or "the greater good" to protect them. People like Sakura. Who have a high chance of falling through the cracks and being forgotten or sacrificed in that ideal. Just saying "thats life" or things just end up that way, means that the situation never changes.

Becoming a machine is never the right answer, because a machine fulfills it's function, it doesn't bend, it doesn't compromise. And sometimes, you need compromise.

The thing is, Nasu provides the nuance of both sides, but gives a fanciful result for Shirou's ideal, since he is a romantic at heart. Fact is though, all we see is the result, when the journey is just as important. For the Realty Nua end, he ends up in Avalon after living his life follow his ideal, but how was it accomplished, how did he live, what did he gain? Same for the newer version of UBW True, he ended up farther than Archer, which is great, but where did Archer give up, and how did Shirou overcome it? Those are important things to ask.

Shirou isn't retarded, he has clear issues to work out. That was where "Your distortion" came from. Sure, you can agree with him, but if you don't also acknowledge that he ain't right in a lot of ways.

>>145749193
Archer will never have a happy ending. It's just not possible.

>>145749193
EMIYA and Saber were called lovebirds by Nasu during Valentines blog in FGO context. So you can pretend he finally did get his happy ending.

Note this isn't Fate Saber. Fate Saber is in Avalon.

>>145748748
>s-sure guys, let's take a completely what if? scenario from author interview as canon foundation for our current flagship undertaking

>>145749399
What is Melty Blood?

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>>145749193
>Would he prefer Adult Saber?

She has no idea who Emiya Shirou is. She's fond of (you), Bedivere and Agravain. Bedivere is basically HF Shirou.

>>145749318
You're completely making up potential scenarios and possibilities, so I'm not really sure what to say to you.

Discrediting "didn't save her heart" as not having an inkling to do with romance, while going off on a completely unverified tangent of a possibility that the divergence point was the basement is pretty ridiculous.

You seem too invested in the idea of arguing for a potential romance of an unwritten route.

>>145749514
>Bedivere has an arm that burns his soul with an awesome power
At last I truly see.

>>145749591
You're making up that saving her heart is connected to romance when he never said a thing about it.

>>145749514
Best Seiba after Nero BTW.

Something about "staying in 15 years old body" creeps me out. I like Saber backstory and all, but never that big of fan of DFC. Granted Shirou is like 16/17 but still it would be fucked up if Shirou's 45 and Arturia still looks like 15

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>>145749599
I just realized HF Shirou is literally Super Chunni: The character

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>>145749599
He's burning his existence for the sake of a woman who became a monstrous (godly) thing. Of course he is.

Agravain is also awesome.

>killing grail buffed Lancelot with the power of his Artoriafagging

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>>145748860
>Gacha Saber and EMIYA are a couple in FGO

Wait what? Which one is gacha saber? The vanilla one from fgo says:

>The Archer cloaked in red... To be able to fight with him is pleasing, but also sad. Whatever path in life he has chosen, that Heroic Spirit is destined to continue fighting.
How does that make them a couple?

>>145749663
You are about a decade late on that one pal.

>>145749653
Are you going to imply I'm making as equal of a jump as you in thinking that phrasing 'saving your heart" has to do with romance, when you're going off the idea of the basement scene is the key change?

I mean if you have anything that dictates that, but by all means, your sticking point seems to be that he used some flowery prose to mean something different.

I want rin and gilgamesh to be happy together on babylon.

>>145749655
The age thing made sense because she fooled her people she was a dude. Lancer Artoria started wearing a helmet and covered up everything to made up for this.

I like Artoria in general. Nero is also fine, but I find Camelot cast better written and ROMA a little goofy (Romulus is better written in Artoria's interlude than his own or the Rome chapter).

Luvia is a better Rin.

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>>145749193
Archer gets his happy ending with FemHakuno from extra

>>145749765
>How does that make them a couple?

You don't have her do you? She's blushing and whispering when she speaks of him while she's normal when she speaks to (you). Also one of the few Valentine gifts that wasn't romantic was hers.

Nasu already said in his blog they were spending Valentines together as lovebirds.

who are "rin-like" chars in nasu's other series?

>>145749332
>>Becoming a machine is never the right answer

I don't really know about that. Sacrificing your humanity for a greater cause is not something I would say never right.

It ties back into the concept of heroism. Heroes go beyond being a human.

>>145749222
Eh, that's not very convincing so I'm sticking to my headcanon, thank you very much.

>>145749773
>idea

Not an idea. Artoria literally gives up the Grail in that scene. Shirou also becomes heal of his survivor's guilt trauma in that scene. If it had taken place, not just Artoria but EMIYA wouldn't exist either.

EMIYA has romantic feelings for Saber, confirmed for Shirou in UBW. CCC has him mourning a lover he lost and became "unreachable" and all his relationships with women after her ended up in betrayal. That's how he got himself killed. His current lover betrayed him.

>>145749901
No, he doesn't. He friendzones her because he's hung up with Seiba and then is deleted/died in his ending. Hakuno meets his past Shirou self and is likely that apprentice he took under his wing for a few months. Nasu torpedo that ship.

>>145750044
>EMIYA has romantic feelings for Saber, confirmed for Shirou in UBW

Okay you are a guy slipping your headcanon into real shit. There's nothing in UBW that showcases Archer pining for Saber.

I know you like Shirou and Saber, or fuck, maybe even Archer and Saber, but don't go weaseling your little fanfiction into facts.

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What's the crackiest ship of all the crack ships?

>>145750173
>There's nothing in UBW that showcases Archer pining for Saber.
Go and play the route. Shirou spells it aloud to you. Earlier Rin teased EMIYA with Saber too.

>>145750176
There are too many possible permutations of characters to say.
Just choose two people who have never met and aren't compatible.

>>145750272
I've played the route plenty, anon. Rin's 'teasing' was questioning if he knew Saber back when he was alive.

There is nothing in the route pointing to a romance between Archer and Saber. At most he talks about how maybe she would get saved some day, but not this time.

so what fate shit is worth playing/watching? All ive done thus far is read the original vn and watch zero and ubw. Havent gotten around to finishing ataraxia

>>145749924
Tohsaka Rin (Niece of Tohsaka Rin)
Misaya (essentially proto-Rin, bitch-factor amped up to 11)
Ishtar

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>>145750176
ShinjixRider.

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>>145750176
My introduction to Fate series, I'm not unashamed to be called a tertiary or even quarternary.

In my defense, Saber's VA says that she likes Gil the most.

>>145750379
Play Tsukihime and then watch Carnival Phantasm

>>145750379
DEEN's stuff for a laff.

>>145750173
Not that guy. The translation is clunky but EMIYA's feelings for Saber are romantic, even before CCC confirmation:
>"Saber."
>I stop her just once.
>"I could not save you."
>And I say it.
>I say it in place of the one who cared for her.

He's talking about EMIYA. Shirou obviously cared for her too, but the really fucked up translator didn't realize that the word use "可愛がた" had a romantic implication. That's besides the point that Rin also teased Archer's soft spot for Saber in the same route.

>>145749663

Nah, Shirou pretty adamantly talks about how shitty using the arm is and even tries to use projection without it. The best parts is that you can feel how shitty it is for Shirou to take the shroud off. If anything I liked about HF is that Shirou and Sakura tried as hard as they could to delude themselves they were fine, when the reader can only be depressed and just say, "no dear, you are not fine, and you need a lay down and some ice cream stat".

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See what I'm wondering is this.
In a universe so full of beautiful young women, why would ANYONE care about an old hag like Caster?

>>145749936
> Sacrificing your humanity for a greater cause is not something I would say never right.

many tumblrites and terrorists have done so today and will you say that they are being heroic in their suicidal sacrifice?

>>145750441

Sounds good. Hongfire? And is ataraxia really worth it or nah?

And doesnt cp also sue stuff from that other nasu vn fucking kyou kara some bullshit

>>145750379
Ataraxia ain't even worth it. It's meh and kind of a bad sequel, not to mention it's the least canon of them all.

The tiger dojo endings are more canon than ataraxia

>>145750344
You obviously didn't play it enough. Rin teased Archer because he went soft on Saber and it seemed he was rooting for her.

You're mixing up routes too. That's from Fate route, not UBW.

>>145750595
Many firefighters and people who go to war also do the same.

Shirou isn't a tumblrite. He goes off to the middle east to fight terrorists.

>>145750519
Archer wants to save Saber
Rin wants to save Archer
Shirou wants to save Sakura

>>145750595
>tumblerites and mudslimes bullshit is the same as an altruist doing good for the sake of good

yeah nah your a cunt

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>>145750596
I really liked HA, it's got a good combination of fun and drama. Your mileage may vary.
CP has some Melty Blood stuff but you'll understand most of it with just FSN, HA and Tsukihime.

>>145750173
Anon, the single memory EMIYA won't forget is his meeting with Saber. The scene before the Prologue is his POV. Same as Fate Shirou.

You can argue if Saber had or not romantic feelings, but Emiya was and is still in love with her, he just functioned as a machine and preferred to forget his heart. The only ones who can deny this are delusional Rin/Archer shippers.

>>145750669

firefighters and soldiers never sacrifice their their humanity or self interest though.
Most of them are pretty focused on self-survival

>>145750697
>implying tumblrites and terrorists didn't think they are sacrificing their time, self respect and life for a greater good

talk to one today and find out the truth yourself

>>145750643
No, no, you're mixing up routes. Rin asks him in UBW.

There is no mention of a romance at all in UBW regarding Archer and Saber. Saying he 'cares' for her being the basis for it all is something I'd hear a shipper would call as proof.

>>145750722
Yeah well these people are arguing that, even after a quote saying that Archer didn't 'save her heart', there was still something there.

>>145744911

Rin has good taste in women.

>>145750794

I dont give a damn what they think about what theyre doing

Im asking you, YOU if you actually think these two people are in any way fucking similar

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>>145750709
Why was the movie so good?

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>>145750593
Have you not seen Medea Lily anon?

>>145750794
Soldiers never sacrifice their humanity or self-interest?

wew fucking lad.

Unless you're drafted, your actions are far from being in just self interest.

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>>145750855
Super cute witch

>>145748431

Stilgar, have we Wormsign?

>>145748526

Rin's a slut with other girls though.

>>145750838

>moving the goalpost

the point is people should never be machine or let ideals overrule their own judgement.

you have brain problem if you believe living by ideals will not be tremendously damaging and destructive to yourself and everyone around you

>>145750814
Why are you ignoring my reply? The word of 'caring' used for Archer-> Saber is romantic. The most appropriate translation should be "I say it in place of the one who loved her."

Because Shirou cared for her, but not in the way Archer did. He, who is dense as fuck, got that Emiya wants to get under Seiba's bloomers, but you seemly didn't.

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>>145749858

Luvia pleases Tsundere Magi for pleasure.

>>145750973
>let ideals overrule their own judgement
Anon, the ideals come from what they have judged to be good, we're not talking about letting someone else's ideals override what you think is right.

>>145750425

Shinji literally straight up admitted he fucked her though.

>>145750814
>Archer didn't 'save her heart', there was still something there.

None of that still implies there wasn't a romantic relationship. Thinking that there needs to be romance to save Arturia's heart is really ridiculous. Bedivere saved her heart in FGO. Shirou, as her friend, saved her heart in FUC.

>>145739144
because she's just a combination of the two worst tsukihimes (ciel and akiha) with all the interesting parts replaced by generic tsundere and anal jackhammering

>>145750981
I'm not ignoring your reply, I even specifically mentioned things from your post.

You're hinging the idea of a romance between Archer and Saber existing off a potentially shaky translation for saying he loved her.

Not any sort of indication or foreshadowing found in the overall plot itself, which would make it obvious, but you know, just that.

>>145749936

It depends. Gil certainly thinks he is doing what is best for humans, and works outside of a humane mindset, but he isn't totally right either.

The very reason why people become heroes is a very human response. Either "I want to make a difference" or simply just caring about people. You can't take the human equation out of it because it the very reason why you have the will to move forward.

You would be missing the point of Mr. Warrior of Love's stories if you don't also see the underlying message of "humanity is strong". It's not about becoming more than human, it's about being great as a human.

>>145749858
>>145750998
Luvia is by far the worst girl in the franchise.

>>145751022

Nope, ideals define the greater good for which common good and decency can be sacrificed.

Upbringing and culture define the the common good and decency.

Having ideals like communism or socialism to override what are decent or good (don't bully people/ don't harass people/ don't kill people) is not uncommon.
For the perpetrators, they thought themselves as heroes, regardless of the results

>>145751041
Shouldn't the burden of proving there was a romantic relationship between them really rely on you? We've got Nasu saying he didn't save her heart. That's from the man himself.

I mean what's the implication of 'not saying her heart' mean?

>>145750588
Chunnis also try to contain their darkness power, which is why they cover their arms you retard

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>>145751127

Rin doesn't seem to think so.

>>145751174
Are you implying that someone can't come up with their own ideals?

>>145751070
You're confusing me with other anon. I never said there was romance between them. I only said that Archer's feelings for Saber are canonically romantic, and another anon already brought up the scene of the prologue which I forgot to mention: Archer is and always will be in love with Saber. He wouldn't act on his feelings in FSN because he was a self loathing machine guy on a suicidal mission (and he still stopped trying to save her by making her give up her wish, something he couldn't do in life).

Whether he had a relationship with her or not, it's none of my business, I'm correcting your delusional interpretation of the character. Fate Shirou fell in love with Saber at first sight, EMIYA is exactly like him but got a bad end. They will never forget their meeting. That's it.

>>145751176
You're completely misunderstanding Saber's dilemma if you think that it was solved because she fucked someone. Saving her heart is making her give up her wish to seek the Holy Grail. That's fucking it. Do you even know her fucking character?

>>145751069
hehe

>>145751330
>Saving her heart is making her give up her wish to seek the Holy Grail

Where'd you get that definition? Because it's not in the quote.

I mean when you talk about hearts, that shit clearly comes off as romantic to me, but you're going off on the idea that that means he didn't convince her to give up on the grail.

I'm just gonna ask you, can you prove there was a romance between them?

>>145751261
>he still stopped trying to save her by making her give up her wish, something he couldn't do in life

Not that anon, but Saber would've given up on her wish anyway once she knows that Holy Grail wish granting is of equivalent exchange. Someone's gonna get screwed over hard, and a literal whiteknight like Saber would never do so ever.

There is no canon in which Saber goes all the way to the end of Grailbowl, learns the nature of Holy Grail and said "fuck it, heil Britannia screw everything else."

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>>145750825

I do have to wonder why the Nips are so obsessed with having her shag her imouto though.

Didn't help she got weak in the knees from being called Onee-chan.

>>145751426
>Where'd you get that definition? Because it's not in the quote.

Did you play VN or have any understanding of Saber's character? Because you're an idiot if you say this.

>I mean when you talk about hearts,

It's not romantic because the word he used is also meaning 'soul'. Archer couldn't save her soul, release her of the guilt that led her to seek the Grail in the first place. This should be fucking obvious to you because that's what he tried to do in UBW briefly too, telling her to give up her wish. Destroying the Grail isn't enough. If you knew what Nasu and Merlin stated about it, you should have known.

Can you prove there wasn't any romance when Nasu stated it was Fate ROUTE? Route implies romance already. Takeuchi even stated it was like one of the ditched endings of the route.

>>145751552

Sakura's very attractive. If they weren't related, Rin would go for her like a shot.

>>145743160
>>145743951
the thing about butcher is that is whole idea of Saber/shirou romance should be some greek bullshit idea of romance, which literally is all about soulmates and shit

>>145751492
>but Saber would've given up on her wish anyway once she knows that Holy Grail wish granting is of equivalent exchange
>There is no canon in which Saber goes all the way to the end of Grailbowl, learns the nature of Holy Grail and said "fuck it, heil Britannia screw everything else."

That's no salvation. I hate to be like that other anon mouthing "read Garden of Avalon" but you need to read it. Salvation for Saber's soul can only come for her thinking she had the Grail, could possess it and get her wish and reject it because she realizes she doesn't need it. Not because the Grail is fake or a fraud, because it meant she didn't really give up her quest, but she simply got summoned to a wrong Grail.

That's why Nasu stated UBW Saber never really gave up the Grail truly while Fate Saber did. That's why Fate Saber has true peace while UBW Saber's fate is more ambiguous. Merlin drives this point again in Garden of Avalon (that's why the Saber there is Fate route and not UBW).

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>>145751743
>Salvation for Saber's soul can only come for her thinking she had the Grail, could possess it and get her wish and reject it because she realizes she doesn't need it
That's like your headcannon, man

>>145751743
Shit. I wasn't clear, what I was trying to say that Saber can only be saved if she stops regretting her life, redo it, and understands she did her best and finds satisfaction of the result. It's not related about the Grail nature, but about her depression and what led her to the quest. Unless she's freed from this, she would continue looking for the Grail, she wouldn't fully break her contract. Fuyuki is hardly the only Grail War out there. It's an endless cycle and process she's caught on. One Merlin wanted to avoid and was overjoyed when she managed to get free of it.

>>145751857

Heroic Spirit the Dude when?

>>145751857
>Q：凛ルートでもセイバーは自身の意志で聖杯を砕いていますが、この時も世界との契約が切れて、英霊としては存在できなくなっているのですか？

>A：あの聖杯は露悪状態の聖杯なので、半々といったところでしょうか。自分の道を見つめよう、と考え直したぐらいですから......こちらのセイバーなら、英霊化するかもしれませんね。

I can quote GoA for you if you want.

>>145751619
You're making up a lot of fucking headcanon here and switching words around to better frame your narrative. I mean you're stretching Archer telling Saber to give up her wish on the corrupted grail, as being a brief attempt to save her soul.

How exactly wasn't he able to save her soul? Does it just go back to your fanfiction that it's all a result of switching things up in the basement scene?

No relationships between Shirou or Archer and the main girls are canon. It's a japanese visual novel series that exists on selling merch, for fuck's sake.

>>145752278
all relationships are canon

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>>145751857
>>145751928
>She, at the end of her long search for the Holy Grail, has finally accepted her own fate. It was not because she was weary of battle or because she gave up. Without a doubt, she managed to obtain the Holy Grail and then she rejected it by her own will. No matter what anyone says, the king chose the best path. Even if everything was destroyed in the end, that end was not a mistake. It was a life she can be proud of. So, she has finally accepted this in the end, there's no need for me to break out. Everything you dreamed of, everything you left behind, all the feelings you gave me. All of that was my reward.

I translated it for you. Merlin, GoA. It has everything to be with Arturia accepting she can be proud of her life. Nothing to do with the Grail itself. Looking for the Grail to erase her reign is a consequence of not being proud of her problems. Like Nasu said, in UBW, the Grail she destroyed she knew was fake, so the fate is more ambiguous. Why? Because she still had regrets. In Fate route, she rejected Kotomine's offer of what she thought it was the real deal and realized she didn't need it.

>>145743916
Fate Kaleid Illya isn't the real Illya. She's just a different character. She didn't go through the same things.

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>>145752468

Born the same way of the same parents. One girl, two very different lives. You can't say she's not 'real', they're all real, just in different realities.

>>145752403
I thought she was saved in UBW though. She directly talks about it the night before the final battle.

If Nasu's now saying she isn't, that's a pointless regression in character development for her.

>>145739144
Isn't Shirou confirmed for pseudo-servant Muramasa Sengo?

Shirou -> Muramasa
Sakura -> Parvati
Rin -> Ishtar

>>145752403
What are the chances that Merlin is WRONG? He's just an old mage chucklefuck. Shirou has been wrong. Saber has been wrong. Archer has been wrong. Rin has been wrong. Every single character has been wrong.

What you're quoting is literally Merlin's headcannon coming out of his wrinkly ass

>>145752526
My meaning is more emotional. She is in no way the Illya I know. She's just another character that shares her name. To me, she's utterly fake and I don't care about her existence at all.

>>145752646

The Illya you know would kill if it meant she could have her Prisma self's life. It's the happy ending she dreamed of but never got.

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>>145741446
The latest Camelot chapter is clearly connected to the Fate route, right?

>>145752617
>I thought she was saved in UBW though. She directly talks about it the night before the final battle.
That was added in the animu version. The ending of the VN was more ambiguous and Nasu was addressing that years before the UFO version.

>>145752696
The Merlin we see in FGO is from GoA. Who dispatched Fou and talked about the "grave situation the world was in" before and after this scene >>145752403 Merlin in FGO tells Bedivere, from the timeline Saber is a Lancer with Tits, that his king isn't like his, because his king is the King of Avalon.

>>145752403
>Nothing to do with the Grail itself

Somewhere Merlin's logic doesn't add up. Let us remember what happened during Fate route again. Even after the date and brutal dicking that Shirou gave her, Saber's resolve to win the Grail and have her wish granted was unwavered. The only thing stopping her resolve is she knows the true nature of the Grail; I thought it doesn't matter whether it was Fuyuski Grail or not, the true nature of Holy Grail and equivalent exchange is still the same regardless. You can't just have a crazy wish granted and have noone suffers from it. Her moralfaggotry prevents her from wishing to redo everything. She rejects the Grail ONLY AFTER Kirei explains to her how it works.

According to this premise, then it should be the same in UBW through and through. She learns the nature of the grail, and accordingly should've also have her soul "saved" however it mean to be "saved"

>>145753381
No, the meeting before the battle was in the VN too.

In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm annoyed. The passage translated is clearly making references to elements and statements from Shirou's revelation in the Archer fight, and the very reason Saber was there to witness that fight, was to see the parallels between her choices, and Shirou's, and how Shirou, despite seeing his own future, is okay with the path he walks down.

So Nasu is supposedly telling me, even after saying Shirou /saved her/, she actually wasn't? She still wanted to rewrite her past?

Yeah, that's bad writing.

>>145740570
This.
Heaven's Feel is the truly canon route of the three.
Everything that happens in Fate/Zero builds up to that route in particular.

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>>145753559
Like they hammered that shit home in the anime, but it was lightly there in the VN too, otherwise there'd be no reason for her to be watching the fight.

>>145753559
>>145753710
Well the only explanation, other than Nasu being a hack writer is that Merlin in GOA being full of shit and doesn't really understand what's going on.

Then again, every major piece of literature has plotholes in it. All 3 routes of Fate combined are longer than Tolstoy's War and Peace (although 12.5% of them are just "I woke up in the fire, I want to be superhero" repeated ad nauseum)

>>145753710
She saw the fight because of those clear parallels and how Shirou handled them. She regretted it but he didn't, and they never elaborate on what she made of it.

>>145749901
FenHakuno has Tamamo FGO doesn"t mention the gender of Hakuno all it did was say Tamamo loves Hakuni only

>>145753934
There's literally a scene, also in the VN, where Saber says Shirou saved her. It's after the sex/mana transfer.

It's definitely elaborated upon.

Even if it wasn't in the VN, there was an anime adaptation barely a year ago that had that shit front and center.

>>145753929
I'm chalking it to bad writing, but it's weird bad writing. Nasu's clearly referencing the Archer fight there, so it's not he's disregarding the route, but it's like he forgot that Saber was watching everything that went on there.

>>145747763
Anyone with 3 brain cells would realize that warlords (including those posing as governments) in Africa are the continent's greatest cause of poverty and famine.

Ethiopia was a breadbasket of Africa, second only to Egypt, for centuries. The famine in the '70s and '80s was due to the government using food (or rather, starvation) as a weapon against anyone they didn't like.

Archer can save a lot more lives with his arrows than with the tiny amount of charity he could generate.

>>145754069
>where Saber says Shirou saved her. It's after the sex/mana transfer.

Even after the brutal dicking, her resolve to get her wish fulfilled and save Britannia is still unrelenting

Remember the sequence goes:
Day 14 >Cute date >Owned by Gil > Sex > Day 15 > Church underground > Revelations about true nature of the Grail > Reject Grail > Return home to see Rin getting owned > Final battle at the temple

It's only AFTER she learns from Kirei the true nature of the grail that she gives up her wish, she really really want to save Britannia and redo everything, but simply not at the cost of some innocent bystanders getting shafted by equivalent exchange.

>>145754262
No, you're misunderstanding what we're talking about it.

That passage from Gardens of Avalon is saying Saber wasn't saved in UBW, which doesn't make any sense, since that was her whole reason for watching the fight with Archer.

>>145754327
Yeah my point is that it doesn't make sense how she doesn't get saved in UBW but get saved in Fate. The dicking shouldn't make any difference.

Similar to Fate, she learns about the nature of the grail in UBW and give up on her wish. Just because there's no sequence about her dying peacefully in UBW under the trees doesn't mean she didn't.

>>145754327
Well from this interview it seems like the answer is somewhere in between for UBW.

Q: Even in Rin’s route, Saber voluntarily destroyed the Holy Grail. Did this time also break her contract with the World, and make it impossible for her to exist as a Heroic Spirit?

A: It was a flawed Grail, so you could say it was halfway done. Since Saber reconsidered her life and found her own path... this time, perhaps she could become a Heroic Spirit on her own.

>>145754474
So not Avalon, but she becomes a straight Heroic Spirit?

I mean I'm not super bothered with that, so long as it doesn't basically give a middle finger to any potential character development she had in UBW.

>>145754561
Being regular heroic spirit also entails that she gets her memory wiped out, becoming generic muh honor whiteknight caricature of herself. Servants doesn't retain memory of the Grail war. If they loses/dies they just get reset.

>>145754561
Another interview said that Fate leads to Avalon and she wont become a HS in that route. So I guess she gives up her contract but decides to be a HS I guess.

>>145754708
They get memories from when they lived and she is summoned while she is technically still alive so I don't see why she wouldn't keep the memories if she became a true HS.

>>145754708
But it's her acceptance of her life that leads her there, rather than endlessly pursuing to change her past.

Being a Heroic Spirit isn't bad. Conceptually, they're some of the best things about the franchise.

>>145754474
>It was a flawed Grail, so you could say it was halfway done. Since Saber reconsidered her life and found her own path

Bullshit. The Grail in Fate Route is also flawed, it's practically the same Grail. How come it's "halfway done" in UBW but not in Fate? She rejects the Grail in BOTH routes. Nasu's hacking all day erryday.

>>145754561
She didn't go through the same amount of character development in UBW. She only agreed to destroy the grail in the ending because it wasn't the Grail she sought, even Shirou told her her grail must be out there for her because he's a retard. While in Fate, she had what could have been the Grail and turned it down before she learned it was tainted. She was proud of her life. In UBW, she still had regrets, specially in the 'Good' Ending. In the true end, she decided to break her contract. Nasu is only stating her ending in UBW is ambiguous.

It really has nothing to do with dicking though. Lancer Arturia never had any regrets or doubts about her path.

>>145754793
>Being a Heroic Spirit isn't bad
It's not good either. They're just forces of nature.

>>145754938
Yeah, that's a fair point too.

And doesn't Saber basically get a bad end in HF? It's understandable since she got corrupted and didn't get a chance to learn much of anything, but that was the one grail that wasn't flawed.

>>145755025
>turned it down before she learned it was tainted
Read again, she turned it down AFTER she learned that it was tainted.

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>>145755025
I am like, 99% sure there is a line with Saber saying Shirou saved her.

The entire fucking point of her sitting in on the Archer fight, and not going to save her technical master at the time, was because he 'needed' to see it through, and what she saw was a person basically going through a parallel of her situation.

It makes no sense that she would still have huge regrets, when she was channeling someone who has a chant that says "I have no regrets".

>>145754938
See >>145751867 The Grail isn't the fucking issue. Arturia in Fate route thought she was getting the real deal and outright rejected it because she felt proud of the life she lived and had no regrets about the ending. >>145752403 Merlin even repeats exactly what she said in that route.

In UBW, she destroyed the Grail because it was a fraud, not because she didn't want to redo her life. In the true ending, maybe she found peace and accepted it, but Shirou did tell her the stupid shit of "ps look for another Grail" when he was saying goodbye (Archer should have just killed him right there). In Good ending, it's even worse because she's still reluctant to accept her fate.

>>145755164
she needed to see it through*

As in she had to watch it for personal reasons.

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>>145753495
>The only thing stopping her resolve is she knows the true nature of the Grail;

No. Pic related. She recalled she was being a fucking idiot and she was happy with her life, because she always fulfilled her oath as the king. Pretty much this pic related >>145752403

She didn't know shit about the Grail taint there. She figured out that she didn't want or needed to wish to redo a life she was proud of.

>>145755165
You're misunderstanding what Shirou was saying. He was having doubts about his ability to be a master. He even apologizes for not being able to save her, but she reassures him that he did more.

>>145755099
No, it was before she learned that. You need to read the Fate route again. She was hoping Shirou was going to wish the Fire away to validate her quest to redo her reign.

>>145755164
See above. She does learn from that fight, nonetheless, the VN version of her resolution isn't as strong. She still has regrets and the reason why she says she'll destroy the Grail is because it's not the one she seeks.

The anime version did make her find peace because they didn't adapt Fate route. But Shirou is such a retard in UBW route who tells her to seek another Grail. He never finds out she's King Arthur either.

>>145755341
See above yourself.

Shirou's spiel there was self doubt in his abilities to be a partner to her (understandable, since she wasn't even his servant at the time). It wasn't him being retarded.

It's never directly said she's King Arthur, but everyone fucking knows when they talk about how her noble phantasm was what was needed to destroy the grail. Shirou even visits King Arthur's grave in the anime.

>>145755302
>"I don't think that Holy Grail is the one you seek.
>…Go take a good look at it so that you won't make a mistake next time."

He's a fucking idiot.

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>>145755264
>>145755341
Ok my mistake, it's not because the she knew that the grail was tainted, but it was because she doesn't want to kill Shirou.

She still WANTS the grail, but not at the cost of killing Shirou and betraying her knight's honor

>>145755487
What is wrong with that statement?

Shirou feels that he didn't do enough for Saber. That he couldn't save her. This is confounded on the fact that he lost her as a servant. Saber though knew that he did more.

>>145755549
"I don't think that Holy Grail is the one you seek.
…Go take a good look at it so that you won't make a mistake next time."
"Shirou?"

"…Sorry. I can't put this into words real well. I guess I wasn't fit to be your Master.
So"
I couldn't even figure out your true desire.

"That is not true. You are my Master, Shirou."

In a quick look and a sentence, it says everything you need to know.

>>145755341
>>145755487
Its not like he specifically knows her circumstances especially since she wasn't his servant for a while.

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>>145755449
>in the anime.

In the anime, Saber told him who she was. He had sincerely no fucking clue in the VN. Anon stop trying to mix VN and anime and routes. Anime Saber certainly found peace, because they needed to wrap up her storyline so they added and developed her more.

In UBW VN, Saber only realized her mistake after she destroyed the Grail. It's right there stated in True Ending. In Good Ending, she didn't come to this realization. In Fate route, she knew way before she found out the nature of the Grail that she accepted her fate. That's what Merlin meant why she achieved this ending: it wasn't resignation (which is what she did in UBW route), she could have it and told it to fuck off. Because she was fine with her life and felt not a single ounce of regret.

There was regret in UBW. Here pic related, she knows Archer has many regrets, just like she does. He simply decided to never give up what was important. So she'll do the same. That ideal she wanted to protect. However in Fate route, she has absolutely no regrets.

>>145755524
In that regards, that kind of cheapens her rejection of the Grail. Kotomine fucked up. If he goes like "I'm gonna give it to you FOR FREE" and she rejects it than sure she is truly "saved." however it means.

Having to trade her husbando's life and her knight's honor for such wish fulfillment of course she's gonna say no.

>>145755662
In the VN, they knew because of the fucking noble phantasm they had to use on the VN.

By saying Shirou is 'dumb' for not knowing, you're also implicating Rin, because she doesn't say shit about it either.

And I point you to the quote above. >>145755606

The anime made her finding peace more clear, but the implications were still there.

>>145755760
on the grail*

>>145755662
>Because she was fine with her life and felt not a single ounce of regret.
She still wants the Grail in Fate, see >>145755524. There is less regret because Kotomine told her that the had to kill Shirou to be given the Grail. Of course she won't do that. It doesn't have to be Shirou, even if it's Ilya who she hates, or even Shinji she would've said no with less regret

Has anyone actually played the Fate route? Here:

That is not something that should be wished for.
It was her decision to become king.
It was never painful for her.
Even if no one understood or accepted her.
She believes that what she desired was something she can be proud of.
At the least.
The girl pulled the sword out believing so.

That is the answer.
Just like him, that is the only answer she can be proud of.

"Yes..."

She remembers the oath that she made a long time ago.
Something she has kept to herself.
She decided to fight.
Even if it meant losing everything and fighting everything.

"I was he foolish one."
The oath of the king to fight even in that condition.

The king protected the country.
But the country did not protect the king.
That is all. The result was cruel, but if there was nothing to be ashamed of in the process

"There was no need to seek it."
She swore to accomplish her duties as king.
Even if the result was her destruction, she fulfilled that oath until the very end.
So she does not need anything else.

-Yes.
She did not want everything.
From the beginning, there was only one thing she wanted.
She lost many things to obtain it, but there was something something she protected until the verye nd.

With that in mind.
She let her end the dream that was never granted.

"I want the holy grail. But I can't kill Shirou."

Pointing her sword at her enemy, she says so from the bottom of her heart.

"Wh-what?"
"Do you not understand, fool? I said I favor Shirou more than that thing."

…That's why her role is already determined.
To be his sword and shield.
And soshe cannot hesitate any longer.

"Are you saying you do not want the Holy Grail?"
"I do not wish it if it will dirty me. I already have everything I wanted."
Yes, everything was here.
Her pride as a knight and her oath as the king.
Even the dream the girl Arturia wished for.

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>>145755838
See >>145755892

What Arturia wanted was to protect people and make they happy. She finally got her wish because of Shirou. She was autistic and didn't realize it. Merlin did. So did Shirou. They repeat it 20 times.

Stop cherrypicking and read the whole scene.

>>145755892
It's only after Kotomine told her to kill Shirou though. If it was given for free she would've accepted the grail

>>145755975
Those nipples look scabby.

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passing through

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>>145755838

Does she really hate Illya? I would have thought she'd have pitied Illya, what with seeing her as a young girl and championing her mother.

>>145756065
Why does superdeformed Rin smoke?

>>145756096

She wants Lung Cancer.

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>>145755964
>>145755955

Do you know why Arturia sought the Grail in the first place? The reason why she told herself and the real reason? Of course she wanted the Grail. Because her son was killed, she made Guinevere miserable and Lancelot too. Those were her motivations to seek it, but she wrapped it all that sorrow to make her loved ones happy under an excuse that was for her kingdom and her duty as king which she already fulfilled.

Her wish, as Merlin (and Shirou) put it was always make people happy and protect them. She still wanted to save her best friend, wife, knights and kid, but she realized her wish was already fulfilled because she protected Shirou hence why she was so fucking happy she could protect him. So no, it wasn't worth to trample her life and Shirou's over this. She can continue to be proud of her life because she lived gloriously, her seeking the grail didn't have to do this in the first place. She fooled herself it was. She was "the foolish one." She didn't have self awareness to notice this shit, though.

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>>145756096
because

>>145756155
>wife
>kid

Is this the crazy VN where she grew a futa dick and conceive a child?

>>145756265
Merlin made her grow a dick and her sister raped her to create Mordred.

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>>145756125
Better than grail cancer.

>>145756312
>No drill pubes

>>145756312

This is what Rin has to look forward to in HF aftermath.

>>145755164
>inb4
Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right.

Keep on' tardin Shirou

>>145739144
>Why the bias against Rin?
Because the fan favorite pairing for Rin is Archer?

>>145756744
>Ideal Japanese beauty paired with a tall brown man

What did Pixiv mean by this?

>>145756796

Would they rather their Ideal Japanese beauty be paired with female King Arthur, a tall purple haired Greek Snake Goddess or a Finnish Ojou with drill hair?

>>145756796
Ideal Japanese Beauty is Sakura though. She's the Yamato Nadeshiko submissive waifu archetype

>>145756969

Her tits are far too big to be Japanese though.

>>145756969
Rin is a school idol and actually looks Japanese.

Sakura has purple hair and needs to see a pest exterminator.

>>145756848
What about regular King Arthur with a Japanese Beauty voiced by Hanakana?

>>145749233
>>145749342
>>145749388
Is there really nothing that can be done?

>>145757528

Archer is made for suffering. He even died while his past self, his beloved servant and his past crush were having an emergency threesome together.

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>>145757584

>>145757584
Would Archer and Guts get along well?

>>145757639
Lancer has his voice and suffers about as much as he does. If anything, he's the Type Moon version of Guts.

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>>145757627
Fucking this

>>145757627

Archer should be happy that he got to be the ultimate wingman. He got himself laid, he got his master out of the closet, he did pretty well.

>>145757584
The question beckons which route of Shirou did Fate Archer comes from. Considering the original I'd say Fate Shirou -> Heroic Spirits Archer because UBW comes after that. If so then at least Archer despite not remembering, also did the threesome back then, and then nailed his crush Saber afterward just like Shirou. If not then he's just cucked out of luck

>>145749388
It's Fate-ish Saber. GO Materials says she still has the lion plushie that Shirou got her.

>>145754708
>Servants doesn't retain memory of the Grail war.
They can. Archer was wrong.

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>>145743980
No. Nasu said that Tamamo is his waifu.

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>>145743980
But Rin can be Illya too!

>>145757584
RN is canon though. Originalfags can struggle wrastle and flop all you guys want, but H-scenes or Shinji's rape in HF will never be acknowledged ever again by either Nasu, TM or any officially sanctioned adaptation. All official releases of FSN after the original PC are RN, they even released RN to retcon the original PC release

>>145758870
Source where Nasu directly said that original is not canon?
You can't, because it doesn't exist, retard

>>145758854
Man I want to fuck illya Rin and Luvia

>>145758273
Nope, Fate Saber cannot be summoned in FGO as a Gacha servant because she is inside Avalon, thus the Throne of Heroes cannot have that certain Artoria soul.

But since Nasuverse is composed of multiverses, of course there are infinite number of Artoria for the Throne of Heroes to have.

That plushie could have been bought by a certain tanned Shirou though since he is still Shirou.

>>145759063
http://comipress.com/article/2006/06/30/386.html

- Are you satisfied with the original Fate as a PC game?
Nasu: I was satisfied 100% with it... no, 95% XD

- What's the remaining 5%?
Nasu: Now we are making it up in the creation of the PS2 version. All we can say is we are struggling, but the work is not been finished yet.

[...]

- Do you have something to recommend to the users?
Takeuchi: There are something new in "that scene" :D
Nasu: Yeah, "that scene" XD

And then the H-scenes were never to be heard and acknowledged again. You can believe in multiverse all you want, but it has been buried deep and nuked out of existence. It sucks because the lack of Shinji rape ruined HF's narrative, but it is what it is. I'm just preparing myself for disappointment in the upcoming HF movies

>>145759320
>write a shitty waifubait eroge that happens to have good world building
>get embarrassed about it years later and try to fade it out of existence

Fucking niggers, they could have just written a real work to begin with, but I guess they were young and horny. Just like their fanbase.

>>145759315
That's why I said Fate-ish. Like how Archer is Fate-ish Shirou, though not necessarily the same Fate-ish.

Besides, Chaldea's summon system is full of quirks that allow for all sorts of shit that wouldn't happen in a Grail War, like Stheno/Euryale and Scathach and Ryougi and Pseudo- and Demi-Servants. The main take-away is that it isn't just limited to HEROIC Spirits.

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>>145759407

The prisma Illya designs are the best thing to happen to the fate series.

>>145759407
They were half assing the H-scenes and shoving them in in the original releases and it shows. It's more about the market back when FSN released, you need to slap waifus and sex scenes for VN to be able to sell on PC, which in 2004 Japan were primarily an eroge machine and not a legitimate gaming device.

The real problem is that they half assedly fix the RN version too. Considering the amount of work like CG, tedious voice acting throughout, new music, etc put into RN, they could've rearranged the scenes and writing a little bit to remove the plotholes caused by the removal of H-scene, but they're afraid to change too much and alienate the old fans.

Anyway RN is the definitive version. If I'm correct, even Tsukihime is getting a remake and the sex scenes would probably get nuked out of existence too

>>145759571
>which in 2004 Japan were primarily an eroge machine and not a legitimate gaming device.
It's still primarily a machine for VNs (ero or not) and nukige more than a legitimate gaming device in Japan.

>>145758273
Fate route Saber is still in Avalon. It's in Camelot chapter.

And that Saber Nasu said when the game launched didn't come from a FSN route. That's why there are many speculating is EMIYA's. Fate Saber is going to be Grand Saber. I just hope Fate Shirou makes a cameo to make the UBWfags and HFfags angry.

>>145739144
>OMFG Nasu didnt pander exclusively to Rin/Shirou shippers so he hates Rin!

Bias? You complain of bias yet clearly want one towards Rin and Shirou as for FGO why the shit would anyone want crappy fanfic grade original character child instead of a hot
redhead. Seriously even if they had a kid right after UBW it would be way to young to do shit unless you want the kid to spam UNRIMMITED BUREDO WOKS right
out of Rin's twat.

>>145759407
Nasu wanted to write a LN about a bunch of heroes fighting over a shoujo protagonist's heart though. Takeuchi was the horny one. Nasu is pure.

>>145759732
>Nasu wanted to write a LN about a bunch of heroes fighting over a shoujo protagonist's heart though.

Fate route would've been much better because it's less of a waifu wish fulfillment.

UBW would've been much better if it was (male) Arthur vs. Archer duking out their ideal vs truth over getting into (not) Rin MC's pantsu rather than Shirou and Archer outretarding each other.

Have no idea how HF goes.

>>145759832
>It would have been better

People always say that, but they seem to forget that Nasu would have been just as shit of a writer as he was when he actually wrote FSN, only this time he's writing a story that would appeal much less to the average Japanese otaku's or western weeaboo's tastes.

Because it would have been fujoshi-pandering instead of otaku-pandering.

>>145759832
>UBW would've been much better if it was (male) Arthur vs. Archer duking out their ideal vs truth over getting into (not) Rin MC's pantsu rather than Shirou and Archer outretarding each other.

That sounds way fucking worse though. Archer vs Shirou didn't have some dumb as shit fight over a girl in it. It was Archer's jaded beliefs vs Shirou's still yet untested ones.

>>145759320
So where is the retcon then? Did he said something that is like "ignore the PC version, the RN is the canon one"
None, he said none of that, it just says that RN Version is also canon.
You still need to find the source where he said something like that. Nasu just said that they will follow the RN for adaptations(funny thing they didn't do it faithfully, UFO UBW sucks compared to VN) as it doesn't have sex(to attract wider audience)
>I'm just preparing myself for disappointment in the upcoming HF movies
Don't jinx it anon, it could happen. Thankfully I heard that the HF director would not be the one from UBW, and that's a good sign.

>>145760315
The director had nothing to do with whether or not UBW, a TV series, was gonna show full penetration.

>>145759438
The thing is do you know that TM changed that by calling the Heroic Spirits LEGENDARY SOULS instead, which makes a lot of sense.

>>145760338
Though that is what movies can be for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV-RBeDt2B0

>>145759995
Don't bother replying to people who hate proper character development.
Everything has to be romantic with these faggots.

>>145760338
I'm not talking about sex though(not really care about it in Fate and UBW route, just a fap material to me), I'm talking about the anime direction in general.

>>145760354
Don't take one localization as gospel. The Japanese term used is the same as it's ever been.

Besides, the point I was trying to make is that Chaldea's summoning system works on several spirits that aren't categorized as "Heroic Spirits."

>>145759571
No matter what you OR Nasu thinks about his writing style in Sex scenes, I will be firm that reading those parts was really fun because of Nasu's writing style.
>unsightly like an apple skin
Kek those are really fun memories

>>145739144
Yamato Nadeshiko. Nuff said.

>>145760471
Of course I don't do that,just saying that Legendary Soul would be a better term than Heroic Spirit now not only because it sounds cooler.
Example like Buddha is not a hero but a legendary figure but still summonable(even though it is inside the moon cell)

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What is the canonicity of the FHA sex scenes?

>>145740570
>Even fucking Urobutcher said that what Shirou/Saber and Shirou/Rin have is not love and Shirou/Sakura is the only couple that truly represents love, Nasu agreed.
No, Urobutcher thinks Rin and Shirou are a good match

>>145760630
Unfortunately for your preferences, "Legendary Souls" removes the connection the term has to terms like Divine Spirit and Nature Spirit, in that they all share the 霊 kanji.

Of course, there are plenty of terms we use that similarly remove the connection, like Wraith and Elemental, but even if we don't fix the problem we sure as hell shouldn't actively try to make it worse.

>>145760712

None. But they are more enjoyable than the F/SN scenes.

>>145747431
>Goes around saving sandniggers
Disgusting. Archer was right

>>145760726
That's an easy enough fix just call them legendary spirits

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>>145760758
He murders them though

>>145760395
>fap to fate's h scenes

You must have been really desperate.

>>145740570

This Anon gets it.

>>145760857
I have all of FSN H scenes bookmarked and fap to them weekly.

>>145740570
>tfw no REAL Illya route

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>>145759320
The best part of RN is how it makes Saber the true heroine with End of the Dream.

>>145760969
Last Episode was just an extension of the Fate route. Kinda like how Nasu wrote an epilogue for the UBW anime.

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>>145760910
Anon, I'm >>145760395 but never done that! What a dedication to fap you have!

>>145761023
>Last Episode was just an extension of the Fate route
Nice try. It gets unlocked after every other route. It's the true end

>>145761063
That's not how canon works in TM. This is a story that already heavily incorproates multiverse theory into the narrative. LE takes place as an addendum to the Fate route, just like how episode 25 takes place as an addendum to UBW, and I'm sure how a good chunk of the last HF movie will be given to expanding on that story's ending.

>>145761135
Hey Anons, is there any chance any other TM series to have a cameo in Nasuverse(Higurashi and Umineko in particular)
Wanna see End Battler duke it out with the Nasuverse Gods(I know it's fanfic tier but cmon guys that would be fun)

>>145760910
Holy shit not to criticize you for your horrible taste or anything but fate's h scenes are both awkward and visually unpleasant.

Never had a boner playing through the game.

>>145761233
I believe there was a crossover fighter recently that featured Saber with a bunch of other Nitroplus characters.

>>145761135
>and I'm sure how a good chunk of the last HF movie will be given to expanding on that story's ending.

Maybe we'll see those 'sleepovers' Rider is having with Rin.

A man can dream.

>>145751035
>Her.

And another one walls for the heroic super trap.

>>145761250
If you don't get a massive boner from the scene where Shirou is getting his cock milked dry over and over by Succubus Rin then there's something wrong with you

>>145761233
Maybe as FGO continues. I'm expecting a Madoka collab if nothing else, since both are owned by Aniplex and Nasu and Uro are such close friends.

>>145761544
You got aroused by Nasu's mollusk porn writing?

Really?