Did DBS ever bring something new to the Dragon's universe?A

Gave Vegeta some development. Beerus and Whis are usually cool. That's about it. You could blame a lot of the negatives on Toei, though.

>>145177111
>Gave Vegeta some development

But we already had that my friend

>>145177068
We got a new hair recolor and a frieza palette swap other than that, no.

Super Dragon Balls.

>>145177068
Basically it showed us that if Cell was stil alive he'd be the most powerful being in existence, quite literally.

He has Frieza's cells and we know that he is better than Frieza. If Frieza reached Golden form in a few months, Cell could reach his own Golden form by just training for two months.

He has the cells of 4 Saiyans, meaning he can also achieve easily Saiyan God form, he doesn't even have to do the ritual with Cell Jrs., he can just absorb god ki.

The Cell Jrs. would get stronger the stronger Cell gets. Imagine mini-Saiyan God Golden form Cell Jrs., just imagine that.

Due to Goku's and Vegeta's cells he has the constant need to fight and improve, aka get stronger and stronger.

The final result is Super Saiyan Golden God Cell Kaioken 10000...x (add as many zeros as you like, due to Cell's regenarative abilities he can withstand any Kaioken form)

Resurrection of Cell when?

>>145179691
>2 months
He just blows himself up 10 times

>>145179691
I always thought he had the potential to be strongest even before the frieza bullshit. Couldn't he just constantly put himself in danger a number of times and just rely on his broken healing factor to comeback stronger?

>>145177068
Daily reminder that Cell is literally "WHAT IF WE TAKE ALL THE STRONGEST FIGHTERS AND MAKE THEM INTO ONE BEING" fanfic tier. So is ResF and super saiyan god..

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>>145177068
it brought a new low to animation quality

>>145180711
Everything after Gohan's birth is fanfic tier, don't bullshit yourself.

>>145180493
>>145180591
>>145180711
That reminds me, if Cell remembered to use the Kaioken he could've beat Gohan, but Toriyama probably forgot that Cell should know Kaioken lel

>>145181506

Cell was using super saiyan powers, I think using the Kaio-ken in that state could have gone bad. That's for dead people, SSG makes it possible to use but as we have seen it's still too dangerous.

>>145177068
Introduced cucking by using future Trunks and 18

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Kid Trunks only needs to point out to Mai that the dude she's crushing on is actually him and he'd have no problem.

>>145181747
This is Cell we're talking about though. He should not feel any strain from Kaioken, even together with his Super Saiyan-like Perfect/Super Perfect forms. Kaioken damages the body, and Cell is excellent at regenerating his body.

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I just realized a bit of a bump in the whole 'Time travel as a plot point' thing.

So in the latest super manga, they tried explaining the parallel universe shit, resulting in Bulma asking Whis about when he reversed time to un-destroy the Earth in RoF.

Doing so would have created a parallel universe where the Earth is gone and Golden Freeza is alive and kicking.

So by the series own 'logic', the past that Trunks returns to should be one where the Earth is obliterated and Freezypop is strutting the galaxy, more alive than ever.
Is this how things would be? Or would there be multiple different 'Future Trunks' coming back, from a future that has be ravaged by Niggarot, to multiple different scenarios, with the possibility of involving multiple different universes with their own different parallel universes.

This is doing my head in just thinking about this shit.

>>145183071
Are you fucking retarded?

HMMHMMHMMHMM DYNAMIC LET'S GO HMM HMMHMMKICK

>>145182624

Kid Trunks is a spoiled, greedy brat that has no hardships in his life while Future Trunks has spent his whole life trying to save and protect his planet.

Their hair isn't even the same anymore for fuck's sake.

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>>145177068
A bunch of new things, but they're all kind of fucking terrible.

Speaking of Super: what was her deal? Was she posessed by something?
Is she secretly Black?

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>>145183071
>Doing so would have created a parallel universe
I think that the difference is time jumps made by Kaioshins or other such beings like Whis don't create parallel worlds like human time machine interference, but instead affect the timeline they're on, that's why they're allowed to do it.

Xenoverse certainly works on that principle.

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>>145181134
I could just hear Goku's "hehe" from that screen shot

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>>145188807
>Average still shot from super is almost as poorly drawn as third string animator battle scenes from Z
>With worse animation

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>>145188912
The original screenshot is from a battle scene, when Goku's fighting Winnie The Pooh

>>145189116
I was talking about Super in general, not that battle scene specifically. See: the Trunks/Gohan episode.

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>>145177111
>You could blame a lot of the negatives on Toei
>toriyama apologist
yeah I can blame more than just Toei

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>>145189270
Yeah, Dragon Ball Super's budget seems to be in the future scenes only

>>145177068

Are the dubs out yet?

I cant listen to a female voice actor play an adult male.

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>>145189499
From the same episode

>>145189595
Nope probably won't be out for at least a year and even when it comes out you're gonna have to sit through the first 27 episodes

>>145177111
>at the end of Z, Vegeta finally acknowledges Goku as number one and stops trying so hard to surpass him
>Super makes him go back to the whole "WHY IS KAKAROT ALWAYS ONE STEP AHEAD OF ME I MUST TRAIN HARDER"

>>145190833
Pretty much every character in super is flanderized and / or regressed hard. 18 is one of the few who've stayed more or less clean.

>>145179691
>Cell training for two months
He would probably be more savvy than Frieza, and spend a year at least training. Also, besides achieving the Golden form and Godly Ki, he would probably also blow himself up a few times, for good measure.

Really, Cell is the most unintentionally broken character in Dragon Ball.

>>145177068
DBS (so far):
- Gods of Destructions as the destroyer counterpart of the Kai. Each with their own attendant.
- 12 universes. Paired off into "twin" universes.
- King of all, and the universal god heirarchy.
- Planet Salad, the original Saiyan home.
- Pre-Freeza Saiyan armor design
- the god of Dragons, Zarama
- the origin of the Namekian dragon balls
- An omnipotent being (Zuno) at the center of the universe.
- The galactic patrol's anime introduction.
- Galactic King introduction
- Tights Brief introduction.
- time-travelling against "galactic law"
- Freeza as Beerus' underling.
- Freeza's race able to attain an "Ultimate Evolution"
- Freeza's 3rd form named "Assault form"
- Your "Hell" is tied to the planet you died on.
- Earth's hell is a personal hell.
- De-fusing Potara fusion is possible.
- The SSG ritual
- God Ki. Calm and undetectable.
- SSG & SSB

>>145177111
>You could blame a lot of the negatives on Toei, though.
Pretty much, the manga is pretty damn good apart from it being rushed.

>>145177624
And people like this guy are just retarded.

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>>145191143
>the manga is pretty damn good

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>>145191249
>le smug anime girl reaction pic
>that will show him!!

>>145191249
But it is.

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>>145191415
>>145191358

>damn good

>>145190833
>>145190993
This is the same Vegeta who promised never to fight again after the cell arc. Getting discouraged / giving up has been part of his character since Frieza, but it never sticks for long. You can make an argument that the characters are flanderized but Vegeta being competitive with Goku is not a good example.

Toriyama even added a line to certain editions of the end of Z manga where Vegeta promises to surpass Goku.

>>145190833
>stops trying so hard to surpass him
Lies no where in that speech did he say that.

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introduced the Deviluke sisters

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>>145191143
>- Gods of Destructions as the destroyer counterpart of the Kai. Each with their own attendant.
This is okay.
>- 12 universes. Paired off into "twin" universes.
This is okay.
>- King of all, and the universal god heirarchy.
Eh.
>- Planet Salad, the original Saiyan home.
Pretty sure it had been mentioned before.
>- Pre-Freeza Saiyan armor design
What, the Cabba suit? That's modern saiyan armor, and it looks like ass.
>- the god of Dragons, Zarama
Stupid as hell and laughably poorly animated.
>- the origin of the Namekian dragon balls
Stupid as hell.
>- An omnipotent being (Zuno) at the center of the universe.
He's alright but his design is shit. Every fucking new alien is an oversimplified blobby chubby shorty.
>- The galactic patrol's anime introduction.
They're alright, but it's not a new concept.
>- Galactic King introduction
Metal slug alien. Toriyama's character design has seriously gone down the drain.
>- Tights Brief introduction.
Sadly super's artstyle makes her look ugly as hell.
>- Freeza as Beerus' underling.
Absolutely terrible.
>- Freeza's race able to attain an "Ultimate Evolution"
New transformations are nothing new.
>- Your "Hell" is tied to the planet you died on.
>- Earth's hell is a personal hell.
This is just silly.
>- De-fusing Potara fusion is possible.
We knew this already.
>- The SSG ritual
Absolutely fucking stupid.
>- God Ki. Calm and undetectable.
In name only. It's literally normal ki with another name and muh higher powerlevels. And it drains like crazy so it's not as stable as they claim.
>- SSG & SSB
Shit.

>>145191640
It's not much different from Gohan being a useless fuck despite claiming time and time again he'd take things seriously. It's plausible for his personality, but it's still regressing character development.

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>>145191143
You are trying to hard anon

>>145191640
Last episodes of Z imply that in super gokus biological max will be greater than vegetas

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>>145191143
you forgot, perfection

>>145191793
most of that is subjective

>>145191793
Meh most of your "points" are wrong and stupid but nice try.

>>145191859
Nice argument.

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>>145191793
>Laughably poorly animated
They probably blew their budget on the SSB Kaioken fight

>>145191977
Subjective doesn't mean wrong. Some people subjectively enjoy eating shit.

>>145192016
>Meh most of your "points" are wrong and stupid but nice try.
Nice argument.

>>145192022
Which is pretty sad since the Kaioken was nothing special.

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>>145192099
Yeah even the next episode's animation had really bad spot's but a few good ones

>>145192099
arguing opinions is pointless,

>>145192240
Then don't argue mine, retard.

>>145192099
>Nice argument.
And the truth

>Pretty sure it had been mentioned before.
Wrong.
>What, the Cabba suit? That's modern saiyan armor,
Wrong
>They're alright, but it's not a new concept.
Wrong

Your other "arguments" were "t-that s-sstupid" not really anything of worth.

>>145191143
I wonder how differently Toyotaro will treat the Black Goku arc, or how he decides to portray Zamasu.

>>145191845
Sure but making that type of proclamation and then going back on it has been in Vegeta's character all along and isn't a flanderization of him, it's part of the core of his character.

It can't even be fully attributed to Super because Toriyama already alluded to it in last panel of certain editions of the manga.

>>145191879
That doesn't mean he'll give up though.
The idea is that he logically came to that conclusion at the time but his pride will eventually lead to him no longer accepting it.

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>>145192215

Wth the stuff super introduced you could have dragonball stories for decades. GT maybe 4 years

>>145192324
>3 points
>most

The Galactic patrol was not a new concept.
So good for you, you caught 2 mistakes.

And what armor were you talking about?

>>145191143
This anon is right. Super has actually introduced new content regardless. Doesn't matter if you think it's "Stupid".

>>145191793
You have down syndrome.

>>145191772
Black Cat vs Goku when?

>>145181506
He wouldn't know about it. Just like he wouldn't know about instant transmission. There was no reason for Dr. Gero robots to collect dna from Goku multiple times, just like there was no need to gather dna from Trunks since Cell already had 3 others in him.

>>145192350
I think them making vegeta remain asshurt about goku is what's flanderized. If vegeta's focus had shifted from "nuuuuh Kakarott can't be stronger than me" and gone to a more introspective self-improvement, he could have kept his character development and remained relevant.

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>beach episode never

>>145192632
he litterally says anime itroduction, just imagine how pissy the fans would have been if the king and jaco just appeared at the U6 tourney

>>145192716
Man Trunks and Gotten are gonna have to hit a pretty big growth spurt

Can someone make some Zamusa edits of Angry Pepe/angry-crying Wojak for shit posting purposes please.

>>145192812
FUCKING NINGENS REEEEEEEEE
>>>/pol/

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>>145192812
Fucking ningen, LEAVE!!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>145192793
also Mr Satan needs reduction surgery for his gigantic fucking head

>>145192793
probably durring a time skip

>>145192793
Last arc of original db literally showed Goku going from a midget while training to a full grown adult at the tournament.

Heck Gohan was a normal kid at 12, then turned into a giant when he was 17-18.

>>145192714
Super didn't do that though, Toriyama did. Vegtea's line that I'm referring to is pretty much "Goku one day I will surpass you!"

Vegtea never used any other earth characters as his obsession/motivation/rival. Even when Gohan was stronger than him he never had that kind of relationship with him.

>>145192856
How does it feel to know that a ningen fucked your mom to conceive you?

>>145192951
That was 3 years and a few months, also Pan is still a baby

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>>145192989
FUCKING NINGENS WHY WONT THEY JUST FUCKING LEAVE???? GET OUUUUUUUTTTT

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>>145191793
>hating on this cutie

that is not iino iino

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>>145179691
You forgot to mention how Namekians can fuse. The Cell Jrs all carry Piccolo's DNA & therefore can potentially fuse with the original Cell.

>>145177068
Dragon ball super facking suck it should have bing cancelled a year ago.

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>>145191143
>Pretty much, the manga is pretty damn good apart from it being rushed.
I just wish it was weekly.

>>145192985
I don't care who did it, it's bad.

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I wonder if Chi Chi would have stayed with Goku if he came home from Namek looking like this? Does Ginyu even have a dick?

>>145192784
The anime debut of jaco doesn't make it a "new concept" that super introduced. He was already established and hell, Jaco's anime debut came before Super, anyway.

>>145192951
Gohan noticeably stretched throughout DBZ. By the Cell games he was quite tall at 10-ish years old.

>>145193219
That's a cute callback, but hardly something that makes it good.

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>>145193049

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>>145188807
Hehe

>>145193576
Where did I say that the manga is good simply because of that callback alone? Try not to put words in other people's mouths.

>>145191143
>Tights Brief introduction.
No.

>>145188807
This image is fake

>>145193878
People keep posting that image when claiming the manga is good, so the implication is clear.

How is the manga good anyway? It's got the same awful plot Super does, it's just got less terrible art.

>>145193416
Ginyu's name is a pun on dairy milk, and Chi Chi's name is also based off of milk or udders. Something tells me that they would have been a great combination. So if she ended up getting pregnant by Ginyu's body, that kid would have been the strongest milk.

http://vidya.zsh.jp

get in here

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>>145193953
It's not here's the full picture

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>>145193953
Also here's the next shot

>>145194073
>>145194118
You know if Z's third stringer mid-fight tweens look only a little worse than the average Super art you're not really helping you case.

>>145193960
>People keep posting that image when claiming the manga is good
I posted it once in this thread so that means I think the manga is good solely because of it? Stop being stupid.

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Post more Dragonball QUALITY images please

I always love those.

>>145194191
But you think things like it make the manga good.
They don't.

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>>145191930
A bad version of Goku, this is some brand new shit isn't it?

>>145194166
I feel like those shots were fixed in the dragon boxes

>>145194247
Ok you're clearly shitposting now.

>>145193381
You're welcome to think that, Dragon Ball was by no means perfect, I greatly enjoy it anyways.

People bashing super specifically for bad characterization but not DB in cases like this when it's accurate to the manga is amusing to me though.

>>145193219
Being weekly would be a death sentence, anon. V Jump is a good place for it. Besides, spin-offs usuualy show up in another magazine, and DB is biggest with the V Jump crowd because it survives on video games.

>>145194296
>Never say why it's good
>Post that picture
>Why would you think I'm saying it's good because of that

>>145194118
Give me the episode because this is the only time Cell multiplied himself: https://youtu.be/VZEFs_A0l7U?t=1m12s

>>145194251
>implying he was bad and not just being a sayian

>>145194311
People bash super because it continues and exacerbates things Z was doing poorly while doing very little good to balance it out.

Gohan especially gets a lot of shit because the buu saga seems to teach him a lesson, which is forgotten for super, then he gets the same lesson taught again in super, and he forgets it again. It's way worse than one case of teenage slacking.

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>>145192714
>and gone to a more introspective self-improvement,
Where have you been?

>>145194370
>Being weekly would be a death sentence, anon.
?

>>145194390

>That fight animation from the bits with the worst art
>Not stellar, but so much better than Super's

Man.

>>145194529
>Where have you been?
What is your point with that picture? It's exactly what I mean.

>>145194435
He still was a threat for the universe, just like black.Nothing new.
We also already had a vilain using one of the hero's body

>>145194390
Here skip the 5:50 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs08CHmZUos&ab_channel=Corpsecreate

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>>145177068
Do you miss me yet? Maybe just bit by bit? Was the grand tour really so bad?

I get you all complained about "Goku Time", but hasn't Super has taken that focus on Goku to the extreme.

>Goku only
>No Items
>Final Destination

>>145194941
It's more the Goku, Vegeta and Bulma show

>>145194941
I don't exactly miss it but I can see that it wasn't as bad as Super.

>>145194857
Dude you really have to pay attention to see this thing, that was a bit lame desu.This might be Ebisawa's work, in the same fight you can clearly see the quality getting better just after that scene.

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>>145194999
I think the Goku only joke was in reference to the main fight literally being Goku vs an evil Goku, like how "fox only" in the Melee meme means two people using Fox.

Also, nice trips.

>>145177068
Not really. Vegeta is still undefeated against Goku. At least he was kind enough to not kill him. After the second win, Goku could never have come back. With the first, the power gap between them was even more absurd than the potential SS3 vs SS2 scenario. Good thing others stepped in to save the crippled carrot from the storied snowball technique. Even before that, the gap between their bases was pretty high (not to mention quality of ki techniques). Yeah, not much has changed.

>>145194941
No

>>145195194
I know it's called cherry picking, which a lot of people do with Super, granted Super has awful animation compared to the original DB and the Buu saga

>>145195539
Super's animation is worse than even the worst of that Cell clip, and the art in general is almost as bad as the worst mid-fight tweens.

People laugh at the cherrypicked worst, but overall it's quite bad and that's not cherrypicking.

>>145194471
I honestly think that a lot of it is that people watched dragon ball when they were younger and are now evaluating the new series with more mature critique abilities.

Also many English speaking fans have already grown up with idealized versions of the characters that the dub and movies provided and compare this to that so of course it feels off to them.

Gohan's "lesson" feels like filler at the moment when compared to the movie it was adapted from and deserves the hate it gets just like the fake dragon balls and garlic jr sagas do.

>>145195539
You can clearly see how bad is Super without doing cherry picking

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>>145195631

>>145195662
>I will prove him wrong by cherrypicking distance shots

Super.

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>>145195707

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>>145195895
Anon, you're a little slow and butthurt, so I will try to explain again.

Yes, there's a fair amount of bad drawings in DBZ. However, they're really bad only by DBZ standards. They're ALMOST AVERAGE by super standards. So you can keep cherrypicking all you like, because in the case of Super, it's the GOOD shots you have to cherrypick.

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>>145196117
That's nice,also i never said DBS had the best animation did i, just that the hate for it is extremely exaggerated

>>145183071
Reversing time is not the same as traveling back in time, as stupid as it sounds. So it doesn't have that problem.

>>145196306
It really isn't. I am well aware even DB has some moments of godawful animation, the problem with Super is those moments are the norm.

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>>145196396
Extremely was probably the wrong word, overblown is better any way here's a bad DBS screenshot

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>>145196497
Eh, fair enough, that level of distinction is opinions anyway and you're entitled to yours.

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>ningens

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Are people still crying about animation? It's been 50+ episodes now, it's not going to change you faggots. It's shit, but what can you do? If it triggers you so much, then just stop watching it and read the manga.

>>145192702
Let me explain why you are wrong.

Firstly, it was flat-out stated that Gero's robots collected data from every fight, so knowing this Cell should know the Kaioken, but if you're still not convinced let's use logic.

Cell has Vegeta and Nappa's cells, meaning Gero's robota collected data from the Goku vs Vegeta fight. Cell, though he never used it, commented that he knew the Genki Dama. Goku used the Genki during that fight. This means that the robots collected data from Goku during that fight, which means that the robots do indeed collect data multiple times, even from people they've already data'd. What else did Goku use against Vegeta? Kaioken.

Finally, we arrive to the conclusion that Cell MUST know the Genki Dama, otherwise you have a massive plothole.

As for why Cell didn't use Kaioken? Toriyama fucked up, probably, as usual.

>>145196986
>As for why Cell didn't use Kaioken? Toriyama fucked up, probably, as usual.

Because he was using the Super Saiyan, which is much better and he can't mix the two. Super's excuse for being able to mix them is retarded.

Nope. Just the same rehashed bullshit.

>>145196986
*Cell MUST know the Kaioken

>>145196984
Because you faggots keep insisting it's getting better when it's clearly not.

>>145197047
Cell should be able to mix the two effortlessly, he is way more durable than Goku is.

>>145197138
No, because you couldn't mix the two until super decided to shit the bed with it's stupidity. But even by Super standards, cell wouldn't be able to mix them since he didn't have the calm SS that Goku trained for.

>>145197047
>>145197138
Also, Cell's Perfect and Super Perfect forms are his natural states, not transformations like SSJ and SSJ2

>>145197218
He doesn't transform when he "goes super saiyan", but he has a powered-up state that is equivalent to going super saiyan.

Dragon Ball Heroes spoiled the Black Arc?

https://youtu.be/dmzmtwgbb4Y?t=27

>>145197254
Sure and SS4 brolly is canon.

So like if Cell just made a bunch of Cell Jrs. would he be able to preform the ritual for obtaining Super Saiyan God since he and all his offspring would have saiyan DNA in them?

I mean Pan was 1/4 saiyan so only being part saiyan shouldn't be a problem.

>>145197298
I mean the fact that Zamasu is seen with Black and only has one earring. That seems to imply he created Black with the other one somehow.

>>145197253
But it's still not the same thing. They're not transformations. Cell can't lose them by wasting too much Ki, he is in them forever.

And last time I checked Kaioken can be used with natural states no?

>>145197200
Was it ever stated you cant ot just that it would destroy your body

>>145197425
>Cell can't lose them by wasting too much Ki, he is in them forever.
In the form, yes. In the STATE, no. He has a SS equivalent state, so he can't mix it with Kaioken.

>>145197444
No, but everyone always assumed Kaioken wasn't used because it's literally a worse Super Saiyan and they didn't stack.
Super overturned that, but the excuse it gives is pretty flimsy, since Goku had fully mastered his emotions and his ki in the SS state by the end of the Cell Saga.

>>145197444
It's never actually been stated. Hell, Goku used both at the same time in the otherworld tournament arc. It's just been like Blackenfist/Quaman's Land style fanon videos saying that they couldn't be used as the same time.

>>145197597
>Hell, Goku used both at the same time in the otherworld tournament arc.
Yeah but that was noncanon filler.

>>145197597
>Goku used both at the same time in the otherworld tournament arc
>2016
>people still don't know what's canon and what's filler

>>145196984
That quality was never seen again

>>145197398
Yes, but he'd just scheme to absorb god ki, that's more Cell style.

>>145197568
Nothing implies that he can't.

Taking into account Super, he can easily use Kaioken. He is clearly calm and calculating in all his forms, he clearly "mastered" them and has ful control over them.

>>145197597
Goku was dead, he didn't have to care about his body condition

>>145197825
>Nothing implies that he can't.
The fact he never used it implied he couldn't, or at least that it was not useful or beneficial to do it.

Super's explanation fucking sucks because Goku's Cell Saga SS1 form is way more calm and stable than his SSB form. SSB has monster energy drain. Goku was so in control of SS during the Cell Saga that he could fucking sleep on it and remain transformed for months without ever needing to rest, not even before his big fight. If he couldn't do it then, there's nothing Super has shown that would make me think "well it makes sense he can NOW".

I can understand super being shit but why are the new movies so poorly drawn? Cell saga dbz was better than this junk

>>1451respy
From
>Willing to sell his soul and endanger existence as we know it just to acheive that strength
to
>Has a healthy rivalry based on mutial respect rather than envy

How is that regressing?

>>145198092
meant for >>145190833

>>145198092
>>Has a healthy rivalry based on mutial respect rather than envy
No, he's still envious, that's why it's regression.

>>145197597
>>145197952
Stamina drain ≠ strain
kaio ken does both
ssj grade 4 had little strain or stamina
ssjb hasnt been shown to strain but was stated to take more stam to transform like old kai said "transforming isnt all its cracke up to be"

>Hasn't been shown to strain
>Goku won't transform into SSB to fight hit because it would tire him out too much
>According to the Manga, vegeta lost because he transformed too many times

Even basic Super Saiyan was never shown to "strain", not once, and Goku's mastered Super Saiyan form was DEFINITELY not causing strain nor drain, if he could keep it for months on end and not have to rest before fighting cell.

>>145197825
>>145197825
>Get within punching range of somebody absurdly stronger than you
>to adsorb a limited of ki from somebody
>instead of doing the easy thing and quickly getting on the same tier as Vegeta and Goku before fighting them.

That's stupid, but you're right and likely how it would go.

>>145197952
Or you know, Toriyama didn't think about it because it never crossed his minf? Just like it never crossed Toriyama's mind that Cell could fuse with the Cell Jrs. to increase his power or go giant due to his Namekian cells?

Do you really think Toriyama is that insightful and subtle? No. If Kaioken was useless to Cell he would have said it in plain sight. But he didn't, he made no mention of it, which implies that Toriyama fucked up hard.

>>145198739
ssj grade 1 strained gohan
old kai warned goku about portaras while ssj

>>145198759
No, Cell would go Golden form first and abuse his Zenkais. Only after that would he try to absorb someone with god ki

>>145198918
>Or you know, Toriyama didn't think about it because it never crossed his mind
Regardless, the fact they never did it implies they couldn't. Toriyama's a forgetful old hack, we can't just take his senility as a plot point.

>>145198972
>ssj grade 1 strained gohan
When?

>old kai warned goku about portaras while ssj
For a magical fusion, yes.

>>145194941
I'd take super's flanderized characters over GT's soul-less shells any day.

>>145199100
Room of spirit and time gohan tries to go ssj and litteraly falls flat.

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>>145199587
>Soulless shells

>>145199634
Are you dumb?
He had no control over the form, he was training to be able to use it. He was straining to control the power and to keep his emotions steady without losing it.

Does anyone realize that Cell was the single biggest crisis Goku and friends ever faced? Greater than Buu?

At least with Buu, Goku and Vegeta always had the option to fuse as a last resort. With Cell however? There was no backup plan. There was no one who could've beat Cell, if Cell didn't anger Gohan he could've killed everyone with ease. And then he'd become stronger, and stronger. He would roam the universe, destroying everything weaker than him in his path. Finally, Cell becomes the ultimate lifeform, stronger than the Gods of Destruction and their mentors combined. He gets bored now being the strongest, his Frost Demon cells kick in. He becomes a multiversal tyrant, and makes everyone bow before him as God.

Goku and friends were THIS close to making that reality.

>>145199779
>stronger than the Gods of Destruction

I like Cell, but no. How exactly would he obtain that level of strength?

>>145199728
it still strained him

>>145199896
Not in the way you're implying.

>>145194941
No, fuck you. Super 17 alone is worse than anything Super has given us. GT a shit and I do not miss it in the slightest.

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I miss the old THICC character designs.

>>145199671
Videl is awful in Super but it doesn't make up for GT's shit.

>>145199892
Do you not realize Cell has Frieza and Saiyan cells aka he can reach Golden form and Saiyan God levels of power, and even further than that? Cell has the most potential out of any Dragon Ball character.

>>145199779

He'd only get strong if he faced procedural stronger opponents that would challenge him. Without that, if he ever tried to beat Beerus he'd be squashed like a little baby.

>>145199779
>>145200116
>making those silly implications
Even if he had gotten to those heights, Super introduced a hard 'no' button to the universe in the form of God of All. If he doesn't like it, it ceases to exist. Something tells me Cell wouldn't have been charismatic enough to not be reduced to absolutely nothing the moment he reached that level of power and couldn't be ignored.

Nothing truly matters in Dragonball anymore because even if the Z fighters die, the Gods of destruction are defeated, the little shit just has to will it to not exist. There are no universe/multiverse ending stakes anymore unless he's involved and the one doing it. It kind of sucks to be honest.

>>145199989
ssj strains, ssj grade 5 minnimizes iit

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>>145199671

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>>145200010
Super 17 is about as retarded as anything in Super so far, and it gave secondary characters more spotlight than Super ever did.

>>145200100
No but talking about souless husks while trying to defend Super over GT is pretty funny, since Videl still had her personality in GT and didn't look like shit.

>>145180711
is there something wrong with that?

>>145177068
God is confirmed to be final antagonist/villain. We don't know yet which.

>>145177706
This. Those are OP as shit.

>>145179691
>Resurrection of Cell when?
Never. You made a good case. I don't want that to happen.

>>145200373
There is not a single example of base super saiyan "straining" in the way you're implying. Gohan was tired because he was young inexperienced, and trying to learn something beyond his control, not because the form itself strains.

And the "minimized" strain of the mastered SS form is so negligible if it even existed that it makes SSB look extremely unstable by comparison, so the point stands regardless.

>>145200695
Are you seriously trying to say ssj grade 1 has no strain

>>145200307
Golden form in less than a day by abusing Zenkais

Whis level in less than a week by abusing Zenkais with training

Beerus? Cell stomps.

>>145189657
>When you realize Beerus did 9/11

>>145200895
Feel free to prove it did with any example at all from the entire main series.
The whole "SS strain" was pretty much retconned in on Super to justify the SSBKaioken

>>145200920
If the saiyans don't abuse Zenkai, cell wouldn't either.

>>145199671
>>145200100
>>145200499
I don't understand why people keep complaining about her.

>>145201249
Because she's a soulless husk that puts every character in GT to shame.

>>145201296
Well that clears things up.
Not really

>>145200679
But it'd be fun. Plus Gohan would have a chance to shine again at defeating an old foe.

>>145200352
Pretty much makes the plot of Xenoverse redundant.

Oh, and Cell was pretty charming, at least according to the mobile game Dokkan Batte where characters have links they share that make them stronger, all the Cells have the "Gentleman" link.

Truly though, I have no idea what Cell would do against the God you speak of, if he is informed of his existence before he is noticed he can brainstorm until he figures something out, and he probably would figure something out.

>>145201038
Yes he would, Cell is much smarter than Saiyans and Cell can regenerate. Nothing is stopping him from abusing Zenkais

>>145201525
>Yes he would, Cell is much smarter than Saiyans and Cell can regenerate.
It's not lack of intelligence. Fucking Goku figured out he could abuse it. They don't because the plot cannot exist with it.

>>145201572
>>145201525

And also:
The saiyans have a much better capacity to abuse Zenkai than cell does. Cell's regeneration is strong, but it's not on the same level as senzu or dende.

I honestly can't believe they skipped Bulma's death in the manga so they could add several pages to explain something even retards understand by now.
It doesn't even make sense that humans know about this, given that no one successfully time-travelled at this point.

>>145201572
>>145201636
Cell wouldn't be revived for plot reasons either, nor would Cell become the strongest for plot either. But we are disregarding plot obviously.

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>>145201994

>>145201994
Despite what desperate superfags will tell you, the manga is not actually good.

>>145202015
Frieza was revived for plot reasons and became pretty strong for plot too.

But zenkai abuse was basically outlawed by toriyama in the same arc when he finally had goku do it. It's just not gonna happen anymore.

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>>145202062
It's not good, but it's better than the anime. At least they explained this shit, even though it would have been a nice twist if there'd be a universe where Freeza really killed everyone.

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>>145201525
>But it'd be fun. Plus Gohan would have a chance to shine again at defeating an old foe.
Stop

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/
>Toriyama:
>But drawing Gohan’s daily life made me gradually realize he likes studying more than fighting (laughs). Later on he even lost his dōgi (laughs).


>Toyotaro:
>Now he’s fulfilled his childhood dream and become a fine scholar.


>abusing Zenkai
Can you retards read the manga please?

>>145188912
That image looks like a still of a gif.

>>145200991
chapter 387

>>145202391
>Can you retards read the manga please?
Just saying, but Goku LITERALLY was only able to fight Frieza because he abused Zenkai, and in your own page you are SHOWING VEGETA ABUSING ZENKAI.

>>145202734
>Goku LITERALLY was only able to fight Frieza because he abused Zenkai,
He didn't even know about Zenkai so how could he abuse it? Retard.

Also read the damn page
>It won't work if the injury is self-inflicted

>>145202618
See: >>145199989

>>145201249
It honestly is a bit of a shame, shes not the same firecracker we knew her for. Shes such a tame house wive now its almost pathetic.

>>145202933
what about it

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>>145202886
>He didn't even know about Zenkai so how could he abuse it? Retard.
He's known about it since he was a child, and on his way to namek he specifically, explicitly abused it.

>>It won't work if the injury is self-inflicted
That was retconned in, and even then that doesn't mean it can't be abused, retard. He is LITERALLY abusing it there by having Krillin hit him.

>>145202886

What if he spawns one of his cell-babies? Is that still self inflicted?

>>145203033
Actually good question. You're gonna have to post the page you mean.

>>145203060
>skipped Bulma's death
Not important.

>so they could add several pages to explain something even retards understand by now.
Lots of stupid people read/watch this series, you should know just by being in the threads. Hell even Toei didn't get the time travel shit right.

>>145203418
Wrong post >>145201994

>>145203418
I've never seen anyone have this much trouble keeping his quotes straight.

>>145203060
Zenkai itself was a retcon. Kuririn's line about Goku always being stronger after recovery since he was a child was BS. He never got a power up just by recovering from wounds before the Saiyan Saga..

>>145177068
>new concept
the concept of a deity who has insane power that's NOT able to fight is pretty novel in Dragon Ball
>Kami introduced and is promptly shown to be comparatively weak
>Shenron has tons of limits and got killed real fast
>Enma is known to be physically power
>King Kai isn't strong or powerful, it's just a job title really
>the new Kami is dende, weakest namek
>kaioshins introduced and promptly BTFO
>God of destruction has maximum combat power
>is actually weaker at fighting than Whis
>the god above all of the universes can wipe them out with a thought
>has pretty much no ki, and isn't a fighter. His power is just outside the physical realm

that was pretty novel, for this series.

>>145203523
I seem to remember him actually getting stronger immediately after recovering during the king piccolo arc. Was this untrue?

>>145203523
>Zenkai itself was a retcon. Kuririn's line about Goku always being stronger after recovery since he was a child was BS. He never got a power up just by recovering from wounds before the Saiyan Saga..
He got a power up every single time he recovered from his wounds. It was just not easily measurable and it wasn't as big as some of the ones you see in Z, but it was even a plot point.
Either way, it was made explicitly official during Z and goku explicitly and intentionally abused it on the way to namek.

>>145203118
13
using mang freak to read it btw

>>145204171
Man those are some awful scans.

Anyway, what of that page? Goku is talking about the "ultra" super saiyan and why it's worthless, it tires him out faster.

>>145204353
goku litterally says that SS grade 1 has "awkard ness" to it and the whole point of mastering it is to minimize the strain

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>>145204554
EMOTIONAL "awkwardness" which is certainly well documented, and which he completely eliminated with his training in the time chamber.

>>145204673
How do you derive your inerpretation?

>>145205105
Because it's literally what it says there, what it says in better official translations, and what it says in every translation I've read. Hell, the word he uses in your scans is NERVOUSNESS.

>>145205162
I misread it my bad

>>145203110
This.

Get rekt faggot

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>>145200090
we all do

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>>145206210
Not THICC enough.

>>145177068
They could have given Yamcha development or brought back Cell to become a Z fighter like Piccolo and Buu did as major villans but no, they had tl give it all to prince vagina

>>145196306
>this is better drawn and animated than every single scene in Super

>>145200567
>Super 17 is about as retarded as anything in Super so far, and it gave secondary characters more spotlight than Super ever did.
Blatant lies and you know it. Super 17 is MORE retarded than anything Super has given, and the Golden Frieza arc alone had more characters doing anything than the entirety of GT did. Super 17 included.

Pan was the most competent member of the heroes during that fight. PAN.

18 did nothing but fuck over the plot enough to prove Base Goku > Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

Vegeta continued his streak as Prince of Jobbers. Remember when REGULAR 17 kicked his ass? Remember when he spent all his time making Super 17 stronger?

Majuub got fucked over the hardest. Nobody in Super got fucked over as hard as Majuub did. Not even Gohan.

>>145210568
>Super 17 is MORE retarded than anything Super has given
No.
>and the Golden Frieza arc alone had more characters doing anything than the entirety of GT did
No, killing Frieza mooks is fucking nothing.
>Vegeta continued his streak as Prince of Jobbers
Don't worry he's back on the job in Super too.
>Majuub got fucked over the hardest. Nobody in Super got fucked over as hard as Majuub did.
Uub won't even be a member of the main cast anymore. Goku has no reason to train him, since he now has 12 universes of assholes to fight and Majin Buu is smalltime by comparison.

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>>145206210
>>145206400
THIC

>>145210725
Okay you're full of shit.

The foes they fight in Super 17 are literally the same "who cares" level as Frieza mooks, or were turned into total jobbers. Remember how Rildo got killed? Remember how the Red Ribbon Army was there? OH NO, NAPPA'S BACK, HOW SCARY!

The fact that you can even compare the two in terms of Vegeta means you're full of shit. Vegeta's track record in Super is better than Goku's.

Toriyama's already on record claiming the manga ending is canon. Your headcanon "BUT HE'S NOT STRONG ENOUGH" means nothing.

>>145211013
>The foes they fight in Super 17 are literally the same
18 was instrumental to defeating S17.

>Vegeta's track record in Super is better than Goku's.
Yet he's hopelessly outmatched by Goku because Goku can now mobilize 10 times as much power as him and he got raped by purple slime and made to suck on a pacifier.
He's turning into a joke fast.

>Toriyama's already on record claiming the manga ending is canon
Toriyama is a senile old man who can't keep track of his own story, let alone Super. Bulma should already be very pregnant if the end of Super was canon, and goku no longer has any logical reason to train the poo in the boo.

>>145191772
Holy shit, Yabuki does it again. I love this man.

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Man this was fucking great.

>>145212399
stop doing this
use spoiler function you nigger

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Still waiting

>>145212685
That was last week's episode stupid.

>>145212685
>being a dubfag

>>145212399
Did they mention 17? Still have to watch that episode.

>>145213093

No. She just said that she heard that he killed her in the future. Thats it.

>>145213132
And thank god that was it, every second she's onscreen the risk Super will ruin her like everyone else rises.

>>145213163
Honestly that scene just made her even better.

>>145212399
>Krillin didn't even give Trunks a heads up

18 could have been killed and there would be very little either Krillin or 18 could have done to stop it.

Get it together manlet man

>>145212978
>Timmy's first dragona ball OC

>>145211289
>18 was instrumental to defeating S17.
Only because of the hack writing that's even worse than Super's. That proves Base Goku > Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

The second one is laughable considering just how much worse Vegeta had it in GT.

You're using those headcanons again. You should stop that.

>>145177068
Goku getting sniped. Frieza getting a golden form. Seeing Goku being a shit-tier father, Gohan becoming a pussy and Vegeta being an actual good dad.

>>145213687
>Only because of the hack writing that's even worse than Super's.
Nah, it's the same level of hack writing, so if I have hack writing either way, then better to have someone besides Goku or Vegeta do something cool.

>how much worse Vegeta had it in GT.
He wasn't pretending to be relevant in GT anymore. And hell, at least he kept his character development.

>You're using those headcanons again
You're hanging on to the "word of god" no matter how badly contradicted it gets. You should try forming a thought sometime.

>>145213789
what do you have against freezer getting a new form?
it was only golden because he was envious of golden ssj hair

>>145214059
>"New form"
Palette swap.

>>145183071
>Doing so would have created a parallel universe where the Earth is gone and Golden Freeza is alive and kicking.
Nah the whole parallel timeline being created thing is a fault of the Time Machines.

Time travel via rings or rewinding time (which is not the same as other forms of time trave) does not

Time travel always creates a clusterfuck in any series.

>>145193219
Is the Goku Vegeta fight really from 1989???

>>145214237
It's more muscular, has differently colored sections, even is taller. You're too focused on the gold coloring to notice that he actually is different from his base form. It's more unique than most versions of Super Saiyan 2.

>>145213849
Goku FIGHTS out of character in Super 17. The thing that not even Super has managed to fuck up. You cannot defend this.

You claim Vegeta has a character in GT. Cute.

You're hanging on to those headcanons really hard.

>>145193615
underrated

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>>145214964
>The thing that not even Super has managed to fuck up.
Haha.

>>145214859
To be honest I like Lakers Frieza way more than SSG or SSB. It still felt a little underwhelming.

>>145214743
Yes.

>>145215137
That also happens in Z

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>>145215586
Forgot pic

>>145189595
So mute the fucking thing. You're going to watch it with subtitles anyway right?

The music is okay, but nothing that isn't worth missing. Certainly not has good as the Faulconer productions soundtrack

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>>145215586
>>145215636

No anon, Goku was not taken out by the equivalent of a small grenade. He was taken out by a blow to the neck from a fighter equal in power to him.

Not to mention Goku is much, much stronger in Super than he was in Z, making the whole thing even more laughable. He could take those kinds of blasts to the face when he was 12.

If Goku hadnt died in FTrunks timeline, would everyone survived the Androids' attack?

>>145215960
It's possible, they'd have 2 super saiyans to fight the androids so the fight would be fairly even. Assuming Vegeta was one at the time.

>>145215816
Goku got hurt by a rock as a Super Saiyan. Goku had his guard up as a kid. How is this so difficult to understand?

>>145215137
Good job not reading. Goku spends his entire fight with Super 17 Ki blasting him. This is out of character.

>>145215997

But if Vegeta got BTFO , wouldn't the same happen to Goku?

>>145216278
That was filler that was retroactively made canon by RoF/Super's idiocy.
>Goku had his guard up as a kid.
Goku had no fine ki control when he was a kid and he'd never seen a gun when he got shot in the goddamn face. He got sprayed with machinegun fire, the bullets wounded him but didn't penetrate deep enough to be serious. He was hit by the bullet of a sniper he hadn't detected. He got hit by a rocket, completely by surprise. None of that hurt him. Since he had no fine Ki control back then, the majority of the damage was physically tanked. Because back then DB focused on sheer muscle strength, not ki.

>>145215816
>Ring leaves a hole in a rock
>Before 4 months training
>Ring hurts Goku in the back
>After 4 months training
This is so easy to explain that it's laughable.
Do you think Kirk sets his Phaser to Kill for every shot too?

>>145216375
Vegeta died because the androids together could overpower a super saiyan. If Vegeta was the only one, no one else would be powerful enough to save him.
But if there were 2 super saiyans, each of them may have been able to kill an android.

>>145216464
>He TRAINED his laser ring

Hahaha oh superfags.

>>145216436
All cases of him having his guard up, infiltrating an enemy stronghold. Nothing about forced Ki control.

>>145216546
Frieza's training. Good job not reading.

>>145216546
Not him but I think that was supposed to be Frieza's training
Though you can upgrade a weapon in 4 months, not that hard

>>145216575
>All cases of him having his guard up
Anon, the only reason this "guard up" bullshit flies is due to ki control, because invisible ki barriers apparently protect them. But as a kid, he had no fine ki control Meaning his "guard" would only help him if he was covering himself. He was hit by the physical explosive force of a rocket that took him completely by surprise IN THE FACE and which he made no effort to defend against. Sorry, but if he didn't have invisible ki barriers, then his guard was quite down, and the damage he physically tanked.

Did none of you people read Dragon Ball? Roshi's training was 100% focused on physical strengthening. They weren't stronger because of magic, they were stronger because they physically molded their bodies into that.

>>145216695
>>145216632

So in 4 months they also made lasers strong enough to hurt Frieza's new form/SSG?

Why the fuck didn't they all have those? They'd have been able to kill Beerus.

>>145216715
All cases of him still having his guard up. And you really don't know anything about how Ki works in Dragon Ball. It doesn't just happen out of nowhere, you always have Ki. A farmer has Ki. Earthlings have enough combined Ki to kill Buu. Goku still was guarded by it, still active, and being surprised is different from dropping down to base and dropping guard.

>>145216762
They made a laser strong enough to hurt Goku when he drops his guard, in base, which isn't that hard. Where the fuck are you pulling this "strong enough to hurt Bling Mode Frieza" from?

>>145177068
>omni-king
>Aliens that aren't any one of the three breeds of alien we've seen before in the series. Super gave us at least five more types of aliens.
>Bulma's sister and her alien friend are canon now
>All of Toriyama's stories are confirmed to take place in the same world
>Beerus and Champa, along with Whis and girl-Whis being given a bit more lore as royal guards
>Time-stop power
>Goku is technically rich, but Chichi fucks it up, and doesn't care about the money in the first place. No matter how much money they have, she still wants him to quit being a fighter already
>Gohan will never be a fighter anymore
>Multiverse is real
>How the Kais and gods of destruction work
>Ten universes

Dozen other things I'm sure

>>145177111
>gave vegeta some development

Kek. He's still the same, bitter, midget

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>>145216952
Good joke nigga

>>145216762
>So in 4 months they also made lasers strong enough to hurt Frieza's new form/SSG?
No, strong enough to injure a Goku with his guard down. Which is easier than >>145215636

>Why the fuck didn't they all have those? They'd have been able to kill Beerus.
Beerus doesn't drop his guard nigga. They'd have better luck with guns that shoot wasabi.

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>>145216821
>All cases of him still having his guard up.
>Having his guard up

Nah, sorry. Not even close. And this is goku when he was 11 and weak as shit, not a grown man and a literal god. It's a shitty retcon made for the movie.

>And you really don't know anything about how Ki works in Dragon Ball
Says the guy who doesn't know DB's powerlevels through most of the run were based on sheer muscle and physical toughness, not ki.

>>145216890
"It must have been a different, much more powerful ring laser" doesn't really cut it.

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>Gunchat is back
THIS LOOKS LIKE A JOB

FOR NAMEK W/ PISTOL

THE STRONGEST VILLAIN

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The face of a fighter with his "guard up".

>>145217090
Holy shit did you make that?
I need to know before I continue.

>>145216821
Wait so you're saying that ki protects you even when you do nothing and can't control it? So Goku had to actively intentionally put in effort to bring his ki to zero so he could get killed?

And this makes sense?

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>>145177068
A new synonymous for SHIT.

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>>145182624
I'm tired of this Okada romance. Way to ruin DB's best girl-

>>145197399
I'm wondering if Black is a result of a stable time loop, where Zamasu creates Black after becoming enraged at Goku beating him in a fight.

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>Forced screentime for the Pilaf gang
>More pointless universes and gods
>Most of the new characters and transformations are just color-palette swaps
>Bigger dragon balls because why the fuck not
>Quality animation
>first 30 episodes are just filler and events that occurred in the movies with minor differences.
>Intro is earrape for each episode
>Akira Toriyama on suicide watch
At least we can all agree that OPM is significantly better in every way compared to DBS.

>>145217090
You always have Ki with you, even if you don't train it. It isn't some kind of Magic you learn, you learn to CONTROL it. This is how it works in Dragon Ball, and why Cell could get stronger by drinking people, why Babidi could gain strength from normal humans, why Gero could drain people, etc.

Goku still has his guard up while confronting the base because HE'S CONFRONTING THE RED RIBBON ARMY. Do you suddenly think you've won when you're running through the middle of a base, getting shot at constantly?

>>145191143
They wasted 50 episodes just for this random comments that could had explained in a new guide or something. Good move, jew Toei.

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>>145182624
F Trunks is much cooler though.

>>145217210
He brought it down to a level one of Frieza's weapons could hurt him. It's not like this is new, Vegeta KO'd him in one punch with his guard down.

>But it wasn't strong enough!
Nigga do you use a nuke to kill a bee?
Beam weapons can be set to different levels of intensity, this has been a fiction trope since before fucking Star Trek.

>>145191640
>Vegeta being competitive with Goku is not a good example.
Vegeta was always competitive, it's in his nature. The difference is that Vegeta learned to respect Goku's power in Z, in DBS Vegeta treats Goku like a overpowered annoying kid.

>>145217396
So:
You're saying your ki protects you even if you don't know how to use it properly, and that the instances of him tanking damage like a gun to the face, or a large armor piercing round to the back of the head, or a rocket to the face, was just his ki protecting him without his having to do anything.

Therefore, your'e saying that Goku, instead of powering to a neutral state, had to actively erase his ki to nothing so he could get killed.

This is what your'e defending.

>>145217489
If he set it differently why was the blast exactly the same?

>>145217564
>Therefore, your'e saying that Goku, instead of powering to a neutral state, had to actively erase his ki to nothing so he could get killed.
Lowered it to a level where he could get hurt by it. It didn't kill him. Jesus fuck if you're going to complain at least complain about the right things.

Remember when Krillin hit SS Goku with a rock in the head and he flinched in pain?

>>145217610
>Lowered it to a level where he could get hurt by it.
By a beam that does less damage than a rocket?

>>145217564
>If he set it differently why was the blast exactly the same?
Visually? Shit nigga you are dumb.

Set phaser to stun, set phaser to kill, looks the fucking same. Because it's a beam. Result is the difference.

>>145217627
I remember when it was animeonly shit and treating it as canon got you laughed at.

Joke was on everyone else, it seems.

It brought slice-of-life

>>145217685
No, you're arguing he must have made his blaster stronger despite not indicating it at all simply because the scene doesn't make much sense otherwise.

You're making excuses for it.

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>>145194073
>>145194118
Why are Superfags so desperate to defend this shit with inbetweens?

>>145217645
Why would he use its full strength on Pilaf? Jesus Christ he has a fucking Scouter, he knows he could blast them with a minimum setting weapon and be done with them.

>>145217697
Even DBZ did Slice of life way better than super has ever managed.

>>145217751
YOU are the one who are claiming that there's no difference when there IS a fucking difference! Are you seriously so caught up in your headcanon that you have to deny what's on screen?

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>>145217090
lasers>guns in the db universe

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>>145217758
Because only inbetweens and some extreme cherrypicking in Z manages to look as bad as average Super art.

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Reminder that Arale is stronger than Goku and always will be. She can take a laser with her guard down and not even flinch.

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>>145194941
Yes, I miss GT. Super feels so soulless, the characters are so bland, the girls have no personality (except for 18, but she is pretty much a background character). Goku's family is treated like some non-important characters, nor Gohan or Goten are allowed to do anything when in DBZ and RoF they both are called Earth's protectors. Vegeta's family in just there to advance the plot (Bulma) or give a reason to Pilaf gang to be there (Trunks).

>>145217830
That's a ki blast by a person of equal power. Not a "laser.
>>145217816
There is no difference. You claim a difference MUST exist because the power doesn't seem the same, and you don't want to accept it's a laughable inconsistency.

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>>145217876
>Goten

Man at least he had a social life in GT.

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>>145214275
this

pic related

>>145217879
Or, if we look at this without our assblasted headcanon, they aren't the same level of strength. It wouldn't even make sense, given that Frieza PLANNED FOR THIS SHIT. Why would he think a "rocket level" blast would kill Goku?