Why couldn't Archer beat Berserker?

>>144660904
Because Berserker is one of the strongest servants with the strongest masters, and Archer had only just recovered from a crippling injury in his battle with Saber.

The fact that he was able to beat Berserker, what was 6 or 8 times? It was telling enough. But he didn't go into the fight expecting to have to kill him more than once, so he used up all his best NPs trying to kill him the first few times, leaving nothing left for the next few, since Berserker can't be killed by the same attack more than once, and can only be damaged by attacks of Rank A or higher.

>>144661836
Furthermore, Archer felt a lingering attachment to Illya which softened him up a bit. If he was totally cold-hearted, he might have won by targetting Illya specifically and forcing Berserker to be constantly on the defensive, the same way Gilgamesh did. But he didn't have it in him to do that.

Because Berserker is THE STRONGEST IN THE WORLD

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Because Archer is a jobber.

>>144662010
The only people who aren't jobbers in this series are those who started out too weak to qualify for the term

>>144661992
no, gilgamesh is the strongest servant

>>144662151
Berserker > Saber = Lancer > Archer = Gold Man

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>>144662151
Say that again

>>144662421
Why does he wear the towel?

>>144662421
gilgamesh is the strongest servant

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>>144660904

Because shutup.

Only High rank weapons can harm Berserker. Archer's weapon get a rank downgrade so he could never kill him.

>>144660904
Why is Berserker so weak? It's always the ones which have multiple lives who always dies so easily so many times just because they have lives to spare.

Archer was hampered by having no master support since Rin was busy saving his idiot past self, no room to do any archery since the fight was contained to the hall and just recovered from being disemboweled.

>>144660904
There were a whole bunch of factors but among them the limited mana supply and terrain are probably the biggest issues. The main hall of the castle is a wide, open terrain with little to no cover which makes it difficult for Archer to charge up his shots, of which he can only get a few off due to Broken Phantasms having higher mana costs. It says a lot that the guy was still able to net six kills in melee combat and only because he couldn't bring himself to go the scumbag route and kill Illya.

>>144662421
>summon heaven's chain
>summon a shit ton of noble phantasm
yep gilgamesh is the strongest servant

>>144663553
gilgamesh can do the shit archer can't stfu archer just weak as fuck

Solomon vs gilgamesh, who wins?

>Shirou is able to defeat Gilgamesh by mirroring his every attack.
>Therefore, Shirou can attack exactly like Gilhamesh can
>Archer has the same ability, only much better.

>Somehow I'm supposed to believe he doesn't just trash everyone, just like Gilhamesh

Nasu a Hack.

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>>144664694
>heaven chain
>against heracles archer

>>144664914
Shirou>Gilgamesh>Archer>Shirou>Gilgamesh>Archer>Shirou

Paper = Shirou
Rock = Gilgamesh
Scissor = Archer

>>144664914
Archer and Shirou's duplicates aren't as powerful as Gilgamesh's weapons. Watch the fight in the new anime, Gilgamesh says he has to go all out to beat his Noble Phantasm

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>>144665063
>Hercales can't move
>He can't shoot shit
>get rekt

>>144665099
>He mirror-deflects them
>not as powerful

How odd.

>>144664914
Gilgamesh can literally only win against Heracles because of Enkidu, and GoB is pretty independent from his actual mana supply. Archer can output a similar level of damage but nowhere near as easily as he either has to create the weapons or create UBW, and his base mana pool is still far shittier than Gil's because he's a 21st century mage and not the original hero of the entire fucking world

>>144662421

This guy literally told Gilgamesh to suck his dick and bring out Ea or he would fuck his shit up

And survived

>>144665140
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bc0yHvomjo

>>144665137

Archer Herc lost his divinity but kept his parameters. He would snap Enkidu like a twig

>>144665146
And yet the ginger boy version of himself can kill Gilgamesh.

Checkmate, atheists.

>>144665360
Shirou can't kill Gilgamesh, only disarm him.

>>144665308
>he would

nah even if he did, he already get stabbed by shit ton of noble phantasm

>>144665393
Ha.

>>144662421
Isn't he still a mud corrupted archer herc?
What would a proper archer her be like? Either way he wrecks gil.

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Series with slut waifoo is shit

>>144665456
>if
Did you realize that he already fought gilgamesh.?

>>144665224
How?

>>144665456
He's already been hit by a ton of weapons from GoB
Herc laughed it off and is just tempting him to bring out Ea

>>144665579
He would have God Hand and he wouldn't be an edgelord for starters.
>>144665680
Thanks to the Nemean Pelt.

>>144665742
And what about the open spots the pelt doesn't cover?

>>144665925
it's magic bro

>>144665925
Depends on what Goldie is shooting at him. Cheap treasures (think berserker in fate/zero) or his best weapons?

>>144665925
magic

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Dead Apostle.

When she heard that term, a shudder went down the length of the female Assassin's body.

It wasn't because she feared the abominations people called vampires. It was because her situation was the worst she could have imagined.

Vain carriers of death.
They were disciples of ruin who exterminated humans.

She had never encountered a Dead Apostle in life, but she had heard the stories. When the infidels brought their great wars, terrible monsters had swept through the battlefield like whirlwinds of slaughter, without regard for either side.

In the first war, a monster that kept countless beasts within its body had painted the battlefield in blood.

In the second war, multiple monsters different from the first appeared, and rampaged for three days and three nights before leaving.

In the third war, yet another monster appeared -- but it seemed to have been defeated by the stern generals of both armies.

Whether that last monster was simply weak, or whether the famed generals that slew it were heroes that surpassed monsters, she did not know.

She was sure, however, that whatever this monster was, it was a a disciple of slaughter that threatened human existence itself.

>>144665680
Alcides has King's Order to make up for losing his divinity (and whatever stats being divine gave him) and God Hand. King's Order lets him use all the NPs he had when he was a human so that includes the Nemean Lion's pelt. He also has War God's sash that can boost his stats even more if he uses it so he told Gil to use Ea if he wants an equal fight.

He also has an unrevealed EX rank NP based on his stats page.

Who's the best Tsukihime girl? Hint: It's not Curry.

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>>144666232
who is the she in this?
Shiki wasn't nearly that terrified of them.

>>144666401
Assassin in Strange Fake

>>144666232
Is this strange fake? The first war one is Nvrnqsr right? And the last monster? Primate murder?

>>144660904
Because he was too much of a pussy to just kill the loli instead of focusing on her BBC boyfriend.

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>>144666444
I'm still surprised a "heroic" spirit would have that kind of reaction. Then again i guess real heroes move in spite of fear.

>>144666518
I'm guessing she's talking about the Crusades. I'd never take Chaos as being part of the first Crusade seems kind of odd. However, the legion of monsters clearly points to him. The heroes she's talking about are clearly saladin and Richard the lion heart. I can't really see this guy beating primate murder.

>>144666395
Hisui Now, Hissui tomorrow, Hisui forever.

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What did he mean by this?

>>144666909
It is Strange/Fake so the heroes in it are weird even by Fate spinoff standards. That Assassin lost to Fate/Zero Hassan for the title.
Other weird servants include Berserker Thomas Edison and apparently he's top tier as well.

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>>144660904
>B magic
>still got petrified
>Beaten by nearly all FSN servants at least once
He's a shitter, that's why. He just gets wanked by GARfags to no end. See Iskander and Gawain for Zero/Extra equivalents.

>>144666251
His stats honestly did not go down very much with the loss of his Divinity. They're still goddamn obscene.

Every fucking character in this series is like that.
They are super strong but easily win or lose as the plot demands.
Stop seeing too much into it.

Strength: A+
Mana: A
Endurance: A
Luck: B
Agility: A
N. Phantasm: A

Regarding Berserker's stats, is this before he gets the Mad Enhancement boost? Because seeing Alcides' stats, there are overlaps in luck, agility and mana.

Strength: A
Mana: A
Endurance: B
Luck: B
Agility: A
N. Phantasm: A++

>>144664914
Different circumstances and meeting times factor in to all of that, it isn't as simple as rock paper scissors, as Shirou can't actually beat a serious Gil

>>144660904
He could if he was a faggot like Gil and went after Illya.

>>144670463
There are only 3 people Shirou can beat in a fair fight. Himself, Shinji and Kotomine.

>>144662421
This faggot has a tablecloth on his head and he can still fuck you up with arrows!

Click here to find out why.

So for someone who's not really familiar with the series can someone tell me why the series is so successful? The character designs except the generic MC are cool sure, and Saber is also top waifubait. Moreover I saw a couple of UBW fights on youtube and the animation was top notch

I want to get into the series, but just from osmosis I know that:
>you have to have sex with this hot waifu Servant genderbend King Arthur to recharge her magic
How can anyone possibly take this seriously?

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>>144671210

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>>144671210
Type-Moon has built a really cool setting that lends itself well to discussion. For example, you can have whole conversations about Dead Apostles and their abilities and powers without ever touching the Fate based stuff in the franchise. Meanwhile you can have discussions on the grail system without ever touching the other significant aspects of the world. These all exist together making for a very rich setting. Then you add on that the most simplified basic premise for fate is using legendary figures for over glorified pokemon battles, and you've got something that will hook people.

Now then, can it be silly? Absolutely. Should you Care. No unless you're a frodo. Just have fun and accept what it gives you.
And yes fate started with an H-VN. However, if you can actually jerk off to an average Nasu written H-scene, you're a champ.

>>144670910
>Kotomine

Fate Kotomine was different than HF Kotomine or any serious Kotomine desu

>>144671537
Well using literal and not figurative semen slurping as legitimate means to recharge magic is pretty silly and distracting

>>144671210
When you the water porn music, it's time to hold ctrl.

Beyond that, it all fits with the lore of magic being a systemized version of an inherently biological or physical.thing.

>>144671691
Then read the version that removes the sex and replaces them with either organ transplants or blood drinking.

>>144671691
Actually, I never minded that. Considering we've had literal semen eating demons in the form of succubuses in fiction for a pretty long time now, It's too not a weird extension to think of a setting were mages can extract magic in the same fashion. I guess that's why it never bugged me.

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>>144671806
That's fine and all, what bothers me is how they waifubait Saber so hard into this image of incorruptible purity waifu especially in merchandising while in fact in the original material she's as close to literal semen demon as it gets, needing constant supply of Shirou's spunk to charge her magic power.

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>>144671960
For what it's worth I agree with you 100%. I'm not crazy about this ultra pure waifu saber in the least. However, I'm not going to let their marketing tactics get under my skin. Fact of the matter is you should take the money where you can get it. I don't blame them.

>>>/v/

Better question, why does Archer use two swords? It looks fucking stupid.

>>144661836
>>144661919

Nice and thorough for first post. Legit good job anon.

All this discussion is cool and all, but who is the strongest servant?

>>144671210
>Saber is also top waifubait
Can't deny that. Nasu was forced to genderbend Arthur so otakus would eat up f/sn.

>>144667684
>Berserker Thomas Edison
That's underselling just how weird he is.

It's Berserker Thomas Edison with a lion head in a goddamn spider mech.

>>144672074
Think about it this way, what if you got baited the other way around, you're going into the series through the waifubait (just like I did with Dagashi-Kashi) and then you got those hilariously badly written semen slurping sex scenes dropped on you like 20-30 hours into the VN

That's like a straight up false advertising. Because of this reason I'm very reluctant in recommending the series to other people

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>Obligatory prisma/ilya poster paedophilic remark

>>144662421
TELL ME ABOUT ARCHER!

WHY DOES HE WEAR THE TOWEL?

>>144672644
Never thought about it from that perspective to be honest. I entered the franchise through tsukihime way way back when not Fate/stay night. I guess I can't relate since my expectations have never been like that. Instead I walked in with senpai isn't senpai wihtout her glasses as my expectation. However, I do understand there is a reason outside of 4chan, I don't go around recommending people read it in general. It's roughly as long as lord of the rings or some other ridiculous amount of text number. Not to mention lots of people are prudes about anything sex related.
When you add on that it can kind of be a bait and switch I can empathize.

>>144672860
It's his self-imposed punishment over his past sins.

>>144671210
The people who actually take this shit super seriously are the fans everybody snickers about.

Fate is a tremendously goofy franchise, and that's the fun of it.

EVERYBODY GETS A GENDER BEND

>>144662421
Can't wait to see his battle against Gil in the manga.

>>144671537
Sacchin is the best Dead Apostle.

>>144674109
who?

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>>144674587

>>144662421
How's he going to fight anybody when he misses all his shots because he decided to wear a fucking towel on his head?

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Why is she best girl?

>>144674817
>Filename
Well not shit anon, she is a Servant.

>All these posts discussing nonsensical "plot" from a fantasy eroge written by a hack

>>144665140
>What is active defense

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>"Humans can't beat servants"
>humans proceed to beat servants

Someone please explain this.

>>144674903
He's good at writing everything but porn and romance. It just doesn't translate well.

>>144675189
Outliers exist.

>>144675189
Hyperbole, Frodo. Stay in highschool.

>>144675189
If it walks the earth, there is a load of 45-70 that will kill it.

>>144675325
>>144675337
Is Shiki an outlier?

>>144675390
Considering both Aozakis correctly identified MEoDP at a glance, probably not.

>>144675468
Touko at least can be explained by the fact that Mystic Eyes are sort of her secondary field of expertise, after puppets. Even before KnK.

As for Aoko, I dunno. Root bullshit?

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Probably one of my favorite fights in the series desu

>>144675514
Aoko's had more than enough run ins with Touko to learn about similar things. Doesn't Aoko also create Shiki Tohno's glasses? She has to have some understanding of mystic eyes to do that.

>>144675687
>Doesn't Aoko also create Shiki Tohno's glasses?
She freely admits to having stolen them from her sister, but she did do SOMETHING to them (probably involving her True Magic) that made them immune to Shiki's eyes.

>>144675687
Pretty sure she stole them from her sister

>>144675514
The most charitable reading is that MEoDP can be induced transiently and there is literature on doing so. Aozakis recognize the state in their Shiki and want to turn it off/on.

Alternatively, there is a class of familiar in the Big Book of Mortals for Your Magical Menagerie which has MEoDP and the Aozakis are always out on the prowl. This would seem to indicate against uniqueness.

>>144675722
>>144675759
That's right. Wouldn't be surprised if MEODP was something she heard from Touko.

>>144662421
Archer Heracles vs EMIYA

Who wins?

>>144675781
Nasu has stated in interviews that true MEoDP are supposed to be exceedingly rare. So rare that they defy even the Law of Large Numbers, meaning that across the vast kaleidoscope there is no reality with two naturally-occurring MEoDP users existing at the same time without interference on the level of True Magic.

He's also stated a few times that magecraft can only manufacture some of the weakest types of Mystic Eyes, like Ilya's Binding or Ciel's Whisper. MEoDP are orders of magnitude beyond what magecraft can create.

>>144675933
Depends who's the protagonist.

>>144665621
fuck off Rin is pure

>>144660904
He was in love in Saber. For him it was unimportant whenever he or Saber will win the war. So he committed suicide instead of finishing Berserker. Berserker was killed by Shirou and Tousaka anyway.

This way he avoided fighting Saber.

>>144675952
>true MEoDP
"True" is doing a lot of the work there, as it often does in the Nasu-verse.

If it's actually a LLN-defying ability then it should be impossible to identify and they ought not be able to construct the glasses.

>>144661836
But can Berserker bear Madara Uchiha? And I’m not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. I’m not talking about Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara either. Hell, I’m not even talking about Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano’o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju’sDNAimplanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu. I’m also not talking about Kono Yo no Kyūseishu Futarime no Rikudō Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan (which is capable of Enton Amaterasu, Izanagi, Izanami and the Tsyukuyomi Genjutsu), his two original Rinnegan (which grant him Chikushōdō, Shuradō, Tendō, Ningendō, Jigokudō, Gakidō, Gedō, Banshō Ten’in, Chibaku Tensei, Shinra Tensei, Tengai Shinsei and Banbutsu Sōzō) and a third Tomoe Rinnegan on his forehead, capable of using Katon, Fūton, Raiton, Doton, Suiton, Mokuton, Ranton, Inton, Yōton and even Onmyōton Jutsu, equipped with his Gunbai(capable of using Uchihagaeshi) and a Shakujō because he is a master in kenjutsu and taijutsu, a perfect Susano’o (that can use Yasaka no Magatama ), control of both the Juubi and the Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju’sDNAand face implanted on his chest, his four Rinbo Hengoku Clones guarding him and nine Gudōdama floating behind him AFTERhe absorbed Senjutsu from the First Hokage, entered Tokyo Senjutsu Mode, cast Mugen Tsukuyomi on everybody and used Shin: Jukai Kōtan so he can use their Chakra while they are under Genjutsu.

>>144676089
You're assuming that Mystic Eye Killers need to be custom-made. It's possible they might be, but honestly I doubt Touko would've had a chance to study Medusa's Mystic Eyes before giving Medusa the glasses she wears post-HF, just based on how Medusa's Mystic Eyes work.

And of course, we know that "fake" MEoDP can and do exist, because Arc-route Roa had them and Balor had something similar.

>>144661919
>the same way Gilgamesh did
Nigga, Archer doesn't have an anti-Divine chain. Berserker never stood a chance against Gil by design.
There's no reason to make Hercules vulnerable to that shit other than writer's narrative purposes.

>>144676292
>assuming that Mystic Eye Killers need to be custom-made.
Can SHIKI kill his own glasses? If so, then no. If not, then yes.

>>144676394
Tohno? He can't, but that's because of something unspecified that AOKO, not Touko, did to them.

>>144676292
>>144676394
I kid, but given "fake" MEoDP I think we're back at the charitable reading in >>144675781

>>144676524
Except that "inducing MEoDP" is explicitly impossible, or at least has never been done.

What's more likely is that someone, somehow hypothesized the existence of MEoDP based on other observations, and certain magi have been searching for them as a path to the Root ever since.

>>144665579
A proper archer herc will keep his divinity. The only reason herc stands a chance is that he got corrupted by the grail.

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>>144661992
BAHSAHCAH

>>144662421
>escape from a fight where he targeted gil's master instead of fighting fairly so gil was busy defending the loli
>a little scuffle is now a fight

What are you gonna do when he gets raped by Gilgamesh?

>>144676767
I hear you. It seems to me like that hypothesis must have been based on observations of a "fake" MEoDP induced by proximity to death. Otherwise, you would need to know too much about the Root to stop at MEoDP -- and that knowledge would be too valuable to disseminate.

>>144676821
Divinity is such a huge liability. Not worth the stat bump which can come from other sources without a set of hard counters.

>>144677041
Nah, as long as you aren't fighting Gilgamesh I think Divinity is well worth it.

>>144662151
Enkidu.

Hell Berserker Enkidu is probably the strongest servant.

>>144677164
Word of God > Your fanfiction

>>144677091
Gilgamesh has shown up in more HGW than anybody else.
I'm not going to go through the whole list but Nobunaga and Karna both also have Anti-Divine NPs.

>>144677390
Karna's NP isn't actually supposed to be anti-Divine, it's just capable of killing gods from raw firepower.

If you're looking for another Servant that can make Divinity a liability though, Edison and Tesla.

>>144677164
Pretty sure berserker enkidu isnt exactly a servant and more like something that is almost god. I still cant see hie a god cant be fucked even more by the chains of heavens?

>>144677444
Yeah my point is that somewhere along the line "Needs Divinity higher than x" got too silly and so all these cute counters start cropping up.

>>144660904
Because Hercules was already killed by an arrow the first time.

>>144671210
>animation
>waifubait
>hot waifu servant

Using sex as magical ritual isn't anything special or goofy, sex has often times placed asd important even and plenty of lores on magic were no different.

And just read the fucking VN.

>>144660904

Plot hole or contrivance for the sake of the story.

>>144660904
Archer has only one attack that can actually deal damage to Berserker.

>>144661836
first post best post

>>144660904
Because he was forced to go melee against Heracles while being an Archer, it could've been different if the fight started from a big distance

>>144678944
UBW goes until A++ you retard

Berserker just have too many lives. And it's not like he can repeatedly spam caladbolg without draining his energy.

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>>144674817
Wrong Shiki

>>144664694
>summon heaven's chain
Futile, this version of Heracles rejected his Divinity, so the chains aren't good against him

>summon a shit ton of noble phantasm
Gil did that and Herk tanked every single one of them, and then laughed at Gil and told him to bring out Ea if he wanted to have a chance.

>>144666251
He lost God Hand with his Divinity anon. He "only" have King's Order , Nine Lives and the unkown EX rank NP.

>>144669600
Ilya kept Mad Enhacement off for the the vast majority of the time.

>>144676293
But there is.
Gilgamesh was the enemy of the Gods, so it's logical that he has an anti-Divine weapon.

Shiki can kill Archer Hercales.

>>144682680
> psssssh... nothing personnel... kid...

>>144664694
They already fought, dumbass.

Why didn't Archer use Nine Lives Blade Works?

>>144683343
Why would she do that?

>>144684594
Who said he didn't? Nine Lives won't kill him 9 times if that's what you're implying.

>>144684621
Because it's painful for her IIRC. And also Herk was willing to fight for her from his own will, bounding him with ME was not necessary.

>>144683497
>teleports behind you and slashes you 1000 times

>>144678944
>First, both his legs are almost melted.
>Second, there is the mark of a cut on his neck.
>Third, his arm is barely hanging from his elbow.
>Fourth, he is slashed from his shoulder to his groin.
>Fifth, a large amount of blood is gushing out from his chest.
>Sixth, his internal organs can be seen at his stomach.

>But still, six times.
>Archer delivered a fatal blow six times.
>It does not even need to be said that every one of the attacks was by a different method.

Can Shiki kill Berserker?

>>144683219
>Gil did that and Herk tanked every single one of them
Pretty sure he even did a full three hundred and sixty degree, total Gate of Babylon spam.

And yeah, it did shit all.

>>144675722
>>144675759
>>144675687
Aoko does have a tendency to steal shit from her sister and then do inexplicable things with what she takes that makes them better and also makes Touko angry.

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>>144661836
First post best post, although I'm not sure if this is OP because it was 24 minutes later.

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>>144665224
ABSOLUTE MADMAN
THE BALLEST MOTHERFUCKER
BASED

>>144662511
He's an ugly fellow.

>>144688229
What about Void Shiki?

File: 1442371821439.jpg (136KB, 900x720px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 900x720px

>>144688229
which ones?

>>144693631

obv usagi shiki/milf city