>He's fast

>>144189351
Maybe you are slow.

>>144189351
>has has repressed memories that he hides behind a constant smile

>>144189351
I felt like this whole fight was like an intense therapy session

>>144189351
He's LITERALLY me.
Intelligent, sadistic and with a wicked sense of humor...

>This kid is a faster and better fighter than me. I had better use psychology to throw him off so I can I take advantage of his mental weakness.

So besides Hiko, Amakusa, Shishio and Soujiro, what other characters were actually stronger warriors than Kenshin?

>>144192355
Shishio is arguable. With a real sword, he would have cut him to pieces.

>>144192355
If by stronger you mean physically stronger, then plenty.
The sole reason Kenshin didn't become Hiko levels of strong was because of his weak physique.

If you mean it in terms of technique, then it's hard to say, since Kenshin was always holding back.

>>144192808
Shishio also wasn't in his full potential

>Chili dogs

>>144192808
Soujiro never won against Kenshin. Shishio actually has.

Kenshin also won against Soujiro with a sword that can't even cut. Get your head out of Soujiro's ass.

Never got around in finishing this series, I dropped after Shishio arc.

Is it worth my time to watch all episodes?

>>144193053
Shishio arc is the high point but it's a really good anime

>>144193053

Watch the OVA after, you get a look into Kenshin's past, really damn solid.

Forget continuing the anime after the Shisou arc.

>>144192355
NOI Enishi?

>>144193079
Yeah I thought so, no I idea on what episode to start watching though

>>144193121
>Kenshin's past

Oh I'll definitely check it out then.

>>144193053
Just read the manga.

>>144189351
It can't be helped

>>144192985
>Kenshin also won against Soujiro with a sword that can't even cut. Get your head out of Soujiro's ass.

>Kenshin
>Touching Soujiro before he stoped hidden his emotions.

>>144192355
>Shishio
>strong

All of his "special moves" were just cheap tricks. Sure he could waste most people with ease but he was only marginally better than Soujiro at best.

>>144193913
>Kenshin
>Touching Soujiro before he stoped hidden his emotions.
>stoped hidden

Shishio doesn't use emotions reading, so he'd kill Soujiro by doing his intense therapy session.

Also, Soujiro will never fight Kenshin without getting his emotions roiled up. He'll lose every time.

Keep sucking Soujiro's three incher.

>>144193956
He one-shotted every major character in the story. The only way they defeated him was to gang up on him.

Soujiro could barely take on Kenshin and he got a draw and a loss.

He was also instantly knocked out by the succession technique. Fast but fragile.

Shishio > Soujiro.

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>>144193121
The OVAs are pretty bad.
>all that edge
>NTR-ish love story that features implied period sex for some strange reason
>did I mention edge?

Seriously it's not worth it.

>>144194002
Thats a compatibility problem though, not because he is weaker.

The point with soujiro is that he was so fast that you could only follow his attacks reading his emotions.

>>144194067
I like the manga version more because isnt that serious but the OVAs are ok.

>>144194154
>Thats a compatibility problem though, not because he is weaker.

He was taken down by one hit.

Shishio ate up any hits that got to him that he doesn't counter. Also, you can't use the same technique on Shishio twice.

The only one who defeated Shishio was his own limits.

>>144194062
Heavily injured and fatigues characters.

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>>144194067
Kenshin died of sword AIDS.

>>144194315
Which means Shishio fights smart as well.

Also, Soujiro fought a heavily injured and fatigued Kenshin. Still couldn't beat him.

Shishio almost killed Kenshin, meanwhile.

>SPEEDO!

Do they really not have a word for "speed" in Japanese?

>>144194277
>He was taken down by one hit.

It doesn matter if you cant touch him anyway.

And im not the anon saying that he is stronger than shishio, actually i think that shishio is a little better but both stronger than kenshin.

>>144194346
He could have easily killed Kenshin if he was mentally sound.

>>144194067
I don't remember Trust & Betrayal being very edgy, outside of Enishi.

>>144194346
Kenshin was nowhere near as fatigued against Soujiro like he was against Shihiou, considering Soujiro did quite some damage to him.

>>144194458
Aoshi is really bad at his job.

MAKOTO SHISHIO, TU CABEZA ES MIA

>>144194458
>Kenshin was nowhere near as fatigued against Soujiro like he was against Shihiou

And yet Soujiro folded like paper against one hit of the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki.

Kenshin hit Shishio with a stronger version of it and it only made him angrier.

Shishio > Soujiro

P.S. Shishio will only talk-no-jutsu Soujiro if ever the boy attempts to fight him. It won't even be a match.

>>144194433
If Soujiro was mentally sound, Kenshin would've easily read his movements, moron.

Soujiro is literally damned if he's sane damned if he's insane.

>>144192808
Shishio was a mummy man. He tried his best

>>144194401
But Kenshin did touch him because the secret behind Soujiro's flash step was eating him inside and Kenshin was the key to unlocking why.

This is also the reason why Shishio would win if he fights Soujiro. He'd talk to him and bring up his past trauma then finish him off while he's having a fit.

Soujiro can't win against either.

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Make hell great again.

>>144192808
That applies to all of them, you fucking retard.

>>144194580
>If Soujiro was mentally sound, Kenshin would've easily read his movements, moron.

I guess I should have phrased that properly. If he hadn't broken down during the fight, he would have won without issue.

>>144194401
>>144189351

I am 100% sure that if it was "Battosai" going againts Soujiro, Soujiro would bite the dust

>>144194672
I really don't think that applies to Hiko.

>>144194674
>If he hadn't broken down during the fight

But the main reason why he was winning against Kenshin is also the reason why he broke down.

His false facade and blind devotion to Shishio's truth to justify something he never wanted to do.

As long as Kenshin still didn't kill, he'd always rub Soujiro wrong. Every single time, he will lose against Kenshin. His best bet was the draw.

>>144194704
The Battousai would have beaten basically everyone without breaking a sweat. But that would have defeated the whole purpose of the series.

>>144194715
Actually, it does. To do the succession technique, you have to kill your master.

Did Shishio really lose? Remember the government adopted his strong live philosophy anyway.

>>144194704
Doubt it.
Post training Kenshin > Battousai.

>>144194704
>>144194743
Battousai would fail against Hiko because of the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki (Kenshin's Battousai had no will to live).

Battousai will die against Shishio too (Kenshin needed the will to live to bring Shishio to his limits).

>>144194580
>And yet Soujiro folded like paper against one hit of the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki.
>Kenshin hit Shishio with a stronger version of it and it only made him angrier.
His endurance to blunt damage is irrelevant against an edged sword. His speed however, isn't.

Kenshin couldn't even hit with Kuzuryusen, his fastest attack in movement. He landed the full hit on Shishio, who only survived it because it wasn't an edged sword. Soujiro's speed >>>>> Kenshin's speed >>>> Shishio's speed. Soujiro could literally teleport behind him, unsheathe his katana, "psshhh nothin personnel".

>>144194396
Maybe not one that's short and snazzy.

It's probably like 20 characters long and only tangentially intersects with the meaning of Speed.

>>144194750
Well, the succession technique is literally a suicide ritual.

>>144194819
>His endurance to blunt damage is irrelevant against an edged sword.

Yeah. He'd instead die if Kenshin used an actual sword.

Also, Kenshin's battoujutsu is faster with an edged sword because there's a delay drawing a blunt-edged sword off of a scabbard.

He was fighting Soujiro at a disadvantage and got a draw and a win.

>>144194819
Soujiro wasn't really fast. Kenshin just couldn't read his emotions and was therefore unable to predict his movements, thereby giving him the illusion of moving faster than human perception. In reality he wasn't much faster than anyone else.

>>144194067
Reminder for 10.0 MAL rating
Gintards cpuld fuck off

>>144194819
Soujiro's speed is only unreadable to Kenshin because of his locked emotions. However, his locked emotions also led to his breakdown. Therefore, Soujiro's greatest asset is also his greatest downfall against Kenshin.

That's why he never won against Kenshin even though Kenshin was using a toy sword against him.

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>>144194908
>In reality he wasn't much faster than anyone else.

>>144194908
>In reality he wasn't much faster than anyone else.
This is not funny, my governor died in a moving carriage this way.

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>main series above average, enjoyable shonen at best
>OVA is a near masterpiece
How did it happen?

>>144194819
>Soujiro could literally teleport behind him, unsheathe his katana, "psshhh nothin personnel".

He did and then what happened? He started breaking down. He couldn't finish Kenshin off.

Kenshin's very existence was making him emotional.

Which is what Shishio would take advantage if ever Soujiro tries that "nothing personnel" shit on him since Shishio actually knows Soujiro's past trauma.

>>144194952
As soon as he became emotional, Kenshin easily detected him. Also, the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is as fast but stronger than the Shun Ten Satsu, which is his speed at his fastest.

>>144194908
Except other characters don't rely on reading movements like Kenshin and Soujiro still seemed helluva fast to them. They outright state he disappears in the final ougi clash. Also, your theory doesn't explain Soujiro using his speed to dodge, even the kuzuryusen which Kenshin thought was undodgeable.

>>144194996
see >>144194067

>>144194962
see >>144195006
>Also, the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is as fast but stronger than the Shun Ten Satsu, which is his speed at his fastest.

>>144195021
And yet in the final ougi, Kenshin defeated him. You keep avoiding that topic.

>>144194996
C O M I C R E L I E F

>>144194067
Fuck off

>>144195021
And yet Kenshin could completely read him when his emotions was present. He was at his top speed just short of the Shun Ten Satsu at the time.

>>144194704
>I am 100% sure that if it was "Battosai" going againts Soujiro
Not really, Battousai was a great assassin, not necessarily a great fighter.

The reason Ken could beat most of his enemies was out of a desire to do things right. As Battousai, his prime interest was getting his job done.

Ken always had a physically weak body. He became a great assassin due to his amazing technique, but his lack of strength prevented him from being a strong fighter. Not saying he was weak, but he wasn't well-suited for fights.

Had he had a strong body, he would have probably been stronger than Hiko (since his technique was better), and pretty much destroyed anyone in the series, but that's not how things were.

>>144194952
>That's odd. I thought I had him that time.

He doesn't even realize he's already breaking down.

If he fought Battousai, Battousai would nothing personnel the shit out of him.

>>144195053
>And yet in the final ougi, Kenshin defeated him.
That wasn't about speed. In fact, in the manga Soujiro disappears when using his ougi whereas Kenshin doesn't. The anime changed it to both disappearing for some reason.

>>144194996

But it ain't. The OVAs is full edge and angst that ruined the redemption story for Kenshin.

>>144195135
Doubt it. Soujiro would have no reason to break down vs Battousai and would just use the shukuchi from the start.

>>144195111
Soujiro got knocked out by the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki and its power was blunted by his sword clashing against it at the same time.

In contrast, Aoshi wasn't knocked out and Shishio only got more pissed off eating a stronger version of the ougi.

If Soujiro was a fighter in a fighting game, he'd have lowest HP.

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>>144195135
>mfw "muh Battousai"-fags

Kenshin becomes far stronger once he abandons his alter-ego. This is confirmed by his easy relatively easy victory against Soujiro.

>>144195169
Soujiro only has speed with his ougi. Amakakeru was speed and power. And that wasn't even the strongest version of the Amakakeru.

>>144195190
>Doubt it. Soujiro would have no reason to break down vs Battousai and would just use the shukuchi from the start.

Soujiro would have no reason to use the Shukuchi from the start and Battousai's battoujutsu would come faster than his because it's not a reverse-edged sword (Jine took note that Kenshin's battoujutsu is slower because of the blunt edge).

Soujiro would die from the first battoujutsu exchange.

>>144195191
Soujiro wasn't knocked unconscious though.

>>144195191
Yeah, Sou, much like Ken, seemed to be about technique rather than strength.

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>>144193053
Read the Jinchuu arc in the manga. It takes place after Kyoto and is easily the best story in the series. It also delves further into Kenshin's past and got adapted into the OVA Tsuioku-hen, which is a fucking masterpiece.

>>144194067
Seisou-hen is NOT CANON.

It never happened.

Nobuhiro Watsuki, Rurouni Kenshin's mangaka, publicly criticized it and said it was shit.

So stop acknowledging it.

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>>144195233
It'd be easier with an actual sword.

>>144195255
Apologize.

>>144195312
Not unconscious. Look a page or two after.

>>144195256
Kenshin, as Shishio noted, lost against Soujiro because he hesitated.

Battousai won't. Also, as shown in flashbacks, even when Battousai's sensing abilities are blocked (in the forest that blocked it), he could still fight and be dangerous.

>>144194505
Actually, it was Soujiro that was bad at his job. He couldn't finish off an injured man who's bleeding by his neck.

>>144189351
Did Kenshin actually care about Soujiro's wellbeing or was he just mindfucking him in order to win? Because his backstory and supposed "crimes" seemed pretty justified to me.

>>144195400
Kenshin had fuck-all any idea why Soujiro even broke down in the first place.

>>144195172
You do realize the OVA is flashback right? You do realize that this was in the manga and he was once known as a fucking Man-slayer. Of fucking course it's going to be 'edgy'.

>>144195400
>Because his backstory and supposed "crimes" seemed pretty justified to me.

Soujiro is a gentle, gullible boy that's an abuse victim. He's the equivalent of a mad dog you keep in cages because his previous owner abused him as a pup and he only responds to violence.

>>144195349
>he could still fight and be dangerous
Yes, against a bunch of glorified fodder.

>>144195458
You didnt read the manga right?

>>144195533
There is nothing in Trust & Betrayal compared to how it is in the mango that deems the term edgy and/or ruining, other than more blood.

>>144194996
I kept hearing this and watched it after I finished reading the manga. I was expecting new material but it was just the flashback with moody directing.

>>144194646
Man, I remember reading this and seeing this fucker again in Hell. Then he goes off to conquer it.

B A S E D

Should Karou have stayed dead?

>>144195901
Didn't the author say that bringing her back was stupid? I think so too.

>>144195901
She should, but the idea was to give Ken a happy ending. That would have been impossible had she actually died.

>>144195943
Dunno I'm kinda mixed on it.

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I'll show you fast

>>144195901
Bringing her back was dumb, but after he got so many death threats I'm not surprised he decided to back off from it.

>>144195901
Kaoru is a top-tier girl. She didn't deserve to die. Also Kenshin has suffered enough.

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>>144189351
Best boy.

>>144196574
>Shishio not even in the top 5

I was never more disappointed in Japan than the day I saw that.

>>144196725
Japan consistently proves to have shit taste, time and time again.

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>>144195310
>Seisou-hen is NOT CANON.
>It never happened.
>Nobuhiro Watsuki, Rurouni Kenshin's mangaka, publicly criticized it and said it was shit.
>So stop acknowledging it.

The only scene that worth watching was when kenshin was fighting with jin-e.

>>144196725
At least Sano is in top 5

>>144195943
>Didn't the author say that bringing her back was stupid?
I don't think he did. In fact, I don't remember if he was talking about that in particular, but he did say shonen should have happy endings.

>>144196824
Sanosuke a shit.

>>144196574
>Soujiro in first place
Japs have good taste.

>>144196574
>Jin-Eh is 7th
That's weird. He dies at the start, not a bishonen in the least, and not nearly cool enough to justify the votes.

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>>144197079
He was clearly the best character, so it was to be expected.

>>144189351
YOOOO that fight was lit af

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>>144196574
>Enishi 3rd
>Shishio 6th

>>144196873
But he's funny

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>yfw Shishiou was right