Seriously, what was his fucking problem?

He wasn't a mighty decoder.

>>143582528
He was raised traditionally japanese.
All his desires and all his dreams and aspirations he contained for a depressing existence of a life crisis.
This is what traditional japanese society and traditional japanese expectations do to you.
Either suffer,or die.
And boy, did he suffer and did those who tried not to suffer die.

>>143582528
I liked how ultimately him surviving and carrying on living was the worst end possible while him dying would bring him salvation.

Mental illness that was enhanced by his parents being abusive to each other

>>143583825
>mental illness
What illness?

>>143582528
A dysfunctional family.

>>143582528
He got raped. It destroyed his life.

Born in Japan.

>>143583905
schizophrenia

He's fairly normal for a bird

>>143582528
He's a bird m8. I thought it was pretty obvious.

>>143586381
Not real.

Depression, broken family, maybe latent mental illness. The whole thing was pretty relatable I think. The spiral out of control also came naturally, even though it was very dramatic to make for a good story.

>>143582528
>143582528
his head was a minimalist bird

>>143583195
It would have been a better ending, I felt kind of betrayed as it was.

>>143586746
Don't forget that he also got raped.

>>143589596
Stop posting this shit.
He wasn't raped, he could have just refused.

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>>143589805
Yeah and his tears where tears of joy.
It wasn't raped she was just a bit forceful.

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Best Girl

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He was a really good depiction of someone struggling with mental illness and a bad life.
I liked how it threw away the ever present "Everyone can be happy!" sappy shit that even seinen can't ever run away from, and shows you that some people are not meant to be happy no matter what they do until the they they die.

It's also a really good detector of normalfags.
The people going "Wtf why didn't he just man up and do x?!" are the same people who watch watamote and go "I don't get it, what is this show supposed to be, it's just cringe???"

>>143590125
Aiko was best girl and always will be.

>>143590350

That's true, I think anyone can appreciate it, but anyone who identifies with Punpun in some capacity will get a lot more out of it.

>>143590491
>Aiko was best girl and always will be.

Only the one in Punpun's mind.
The real Aiko was a pretty dumb girl who, while cute, was a very simple-minded woman with a traumatic past, no friends, and no prospects.

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>>143590350
>"Everyone can be happy!" sappy shit that even seinen can't ever run away from

No especially seinen are is the genre where that don't happen.
Shounen and shoujo are extremly idealistic and josei is josei but seinen is the genre which can depicted a life of a person who will never find happiness or reach his goal without being edgy.

Obviously there are also seinens about little girls fooling around but that's because this genre is so diverse.

>>143590649

Maybe I went too far in saying it "never happens", but seinen has a tendency to either go full edge, so it doesn't even feel like a "bad end" because it was the objective from the start, or it ends up bittersweet, trying to pass it off as "sad" when things went pretty well, all things considered.

Punpun strikes me as different because it's tragic. He lives, and that's the worst thing that could have happened. They don't do it half hassedly, it's clear that he's doomed to the agony of living, his life is going to get turned into a story that everyone is going to read, the cancer that are his own memories is going to spread so far that it's going to be uncontainable.

But it stops before that. You're just left with the knowledge that of all things that could have happened to a human, you're being witness to the worst of them.

Meanwhile, most seinen do the "bad end" like "lol, he ded, isn't that sad?" or "this bad thing happens, look". I'm not trivializing an entire genre, just saying that, like in everything, the majority is bad, and that's how.

>>143590563
I don't think Aiko would have killed herself is she was so simple minded even with her traumatic past.

There was always something strange about Aiko....it was as if she could see past the facade of our existence and see all the suffering.
Even as a child. It's like she was meant to suffer and never find real happiness and even while knowing that she still believed that one day happiness will come.
And Punpun was supposed to be that happiness....

That's why Aiko is the best girl not just because she is extremly cute but because she is....more....

>>143588974
That's the thing. Thorough the whole story it felt like eventually he will die and will be put out of his misery. But then he doesn't. He's kind of forced into living by people around him and that's tragic because at that point reader knows that Punpun won't ever be able to find happiness in life. It's incredible how it flips this turn-out on its head. Normally, character surviving is the "good end" because even if things were bad for him/her there's still concept of bright hope for the future. Yet in Punpun's case his surviving is the "worst end" he could've got. Him dying would let him find eternal peace.

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>>143590649
> seinen is the genre
> seinen
> the genre

>>143590821
I think that "Look at he dies how sad isn't it?" is more a thing than shounens do.

While there are seinens which also do that, many seinens don't even use death to make a story sad.

I don't aggree that most seinens go down the edgy "bad end" root.
Most seinen deaths are a conclusion. There death isn't the real sad part but the way to that death. Like Aikos death was a conclusion of all the things that happened to her.
While the kind of deaths you describe i honestly only see in non seinens especially in shounens.

Like the big tragic deaths which are supposed to trigger sadness and move the story along and make a certain point. You're lie in April,Clannad,all deaths in mainstream shounens like One Piece and Naruto are like that.

That's one of the reason i like seinen because deaths aren't so glorified there. Many things aren't as glorified and idealistic in seinen.

So i think you're wrong. Seinens don't use trigger deaths so the "he's dead how sad isn't it?" death so often.

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>>143591138
Well seinen is a genre.

>>143591978
> seinen is a genre
I'll let myself be fooled. Are you mentally challenged or something? "Seinen" is a publishing category which indicates target readership based on the age and gender. "Drama, historical, comedy, sci-fi, fantasy" are genres which provides basic expectations to the readers as to what expect from the setting and story. "Seinen, shounen, kodomo, shoujo, josei, etc." are basic publishing categories which serve as indication of what the possible target readership is in a broader sense.

>>143582528
Other people.

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>>143582528
The world wouldn't leave him alone.

>>143592163
I can see that seinen can and is used as a publishing category but it also is used as a genre. Get over it.

And yeah seinen is a category.
And a genre is a style or category of art,music or literature.

>>143582528
He's a fucking bird

>>143591978
Seinen is a demographic you fucking retard

>>143582528
Would have been better if he hadn't been caught by the police desu.

>>143592622
Seinen can be used as genre.

>>143592809
You can use a butcher knife to shave your crotch, but it's still retarded to actually do it.

>>143592574
>I can see that seinen can and is used as a publishing category but it also is used as a genre.
>but it also is used as a genre.
Only by weeaboos that are misappropriating Japanese. Or do you think that Young Adult Fiction is a genre as well?

>And yeah seinen is a category.
>And a genre is a style or category of art,music or literature.
Are you genuinely retarded? A genre is a category for art that is similar in form and style. It has to do with the themes and the subjects and the types of storytelling. Action Adventure is a genre. Harem Romance is a genre. Gag Comedy is a genre. Seinen is not.

>>143590045
REKT

>>143590821
>You're just left with the knowledge that of all things that could have happened to a human, you're being witness to the worst of them.
Are you serious now?
Are these the "first world problems" I keep hearing about?

>>143590045
>Yeah and his tears where tears of joy.
Irrelevant. He could have pushed her away, he was strong enough to do it and old enough to decide for himself.

I started hating his mom and feeling bad for him. Oh boy, how did things turned out by halfway in.

>>143592574
>And a genre is a style or category of art,music or literature.

>>143592795
Not really, being too incompetent too get away with it fits his character.

>>143596294
I doesn't have to do much with competence considering it should be nearly impossible to connect Punpun to the crime.

Because he thinks he need to be some kind of special snowflake to be happy.

>>143586627
seriously, fuck you

you have no idea

What manga is like Punpun?
I want to feel depressed

>>143594885
Ad i'm a starving little nigger from Africa,so do tell me about suffering you fucking white male.

>>143597124
maybe 20th century boys, I can't think of anything else at the moment

>>143597873
I fail to see how they're anything alike.
>>143597124
Have you already read the other Asano stuff?

>>143594946
You are the reason people think men can't be raped.

>>143598315
Explain why was he raped then.

>>143582528
No one gave him bread crumbs :^)

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>>143582580
Underrated post

>>143598408
Because he didn't want to fucking do it and she did it anyway?

>b-b-b-b-but PunPun could have just shoved her off
You know literally nothing about how rape can affect people. Considering he was, what, 14 when it happened?

>why
Iunno, because cafe girl was in an emotionally unstable state and threw herself on to PunPun because she could get any from his uncle? O something, it's been a while since I read it.

>>143598902
>Because he didn't want to fucking do it and she did it anyway?
She even stopped, asking if he didn't want it, and he didn't refuse.
>You know literally nothing about how rape can affect people. Considering he was, what, 14 when it happened?
He just started high school, so he was 15, above the age of consent.
>Iunno, because cafe girl was in an emotionally unstable state and threw herself on to PunPun because she could get any from his uncle? O something, it's been a while since I read it.
I'm not saying that hers wasn't a cunt move.
But it doesn't mean it was rape.

fuck's sake, how did this thread become another "was it rape" threads. It was purposefully ambiguous, we don't know to what extend PunPun wanted it, even PunPun didn't know. However he does feel guilty about it, that's the important bit. Its about exploring PunPun's guilt complex, whether the guilt is justified or not isn't important.

>>143599175
>She even stopped, asking if he didn't want it, and he didn't refuse.
Again, you know nothing of how rape affects people. During and after.
>so he was 15, above the age of consent.
So this, what, makes it okay that she thrust herself upon him?

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>>143597124
Holy shit, this thread is full of retards, I swear. Not even sure why I'm being so nice today.

>>143600623
>Again, you know nothing of how rape affects people. During and after.
Nice non answer.
>So this, what, makes it okay that she thrust herself upon him?
So asking to an adult if he wants to fuck is rape?

>In the beginning Punpun dream of saving Aiko from death

and in the end she dies

Its like poetry

>>143590350
>some people are not meant to be happy no matter what they do until the they they die
But that is wrong. The claim is as absurd as saying someone can be happy no matter what.
The possibilities are endless.

>>143595995
What the fuck else is it

>>143600774
>sports
no thanks

Why didn't he grow up? It felt like he couldn't handle any of his problems and just run away from it

>>143590125
Fuck you faggot, she was a huge cunt and will always be

>only wanted to use punpun for the bit he wrote years before
>its thanks to her that we had to endure all this meta bullshit about writting and publishing manga
>cucks punpun
>doesn't even let him die, instead makes him take care of her bastard spawn

punpun felt like such a chore to read

i think nijigahara holograph was better

>>143602770
Punpun is his most angsty work by far.

>>143597124
Monster
Innocent
The Climber

also watch texhnolyze

>>143602770
>So much angst.
What does this even mean?
You think portraying depressed teenagers is childish?
You think he only writes sad stories to shock people as a substitute for good writing?
You don't like stories that deal with depression and sadness?

>>143586627
>t. doctor

>>143582528
Punpun is a twat.

He went through a lot of shit, but it doesn't excuse everything in his actions.

>>143603642
Don't think too hard on it. That anon is probably the kind of person who thinks "edgy" is a legitimate criticism of anything.

>>143603832
>If you want something that has real life struggles, Watamote or Kodomo no Jikan is always out there for the reading.
I was considering respecting your opinion for a moment.

>>143603476
While not technically manga, the visual novel Narcissu will leave you feeling the same. It's fairly short and free as a bonus.

>>143592795
I don't understand why he had repercussions. Is Japanese law different? They clearly killed the mom in self defense.

>>143606745
Aiko actually stabbed her mom when she was about to wake up again and wasn't really a threat anymore so it's not considered self defense.

>>143603832
How can you be so shitty to fail at committing suicide? Please try again.

>>143591138
Considering the rest of that anon's post, I think the issue is probably less about him not knowing what seinen means and more about him not knowing English in the first place.

>>143594455
>Young Adult Fiction is a genre as well?
Not that anon but yeah, it kinda is to me. Pls no bully.

>>143602615
I've been a NEET for about two years now, and I can vouch that Watamote is shit.

>>143590125
That short haired girl Punpun met in driving school was the best girl, though.

>>143582528
He wasn't getting his hole from that Aiko bitch

>>143602899
Oh and Aiko wasn't? Get to fuck, fagot.

>>143608458
this, too bad we had little of her

>>143582580

holy shit

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I just wanted Aiko to be happy.

>>143608387
>Yeah man, milk to me is a fruit. It's not wrong or anything, that's just my interpretation.

>>143613016
We all did. I think punpun is the only manga where I've cried.

>>143613016
The moment they didn't report to the police what happened as soon as it did and ran away instead, Aiko was destined to die.

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>>143613581
But they had to go to Kagoshima.

>>143586627
I once knew a girl with schizophrenia. She would constantly see shadows trying to attack her.

>>143615970
Can't even imagine the horror.

>>143590125
I liked when she got told by the fat bitch. Everyone gets their turn.

I always took the character of punpun to be an extreme of absolutism, rigidity and belief in ideas given to him he never asked for, and how that misleads and destroys people.

I think the better question is who was he really crying for all that time?

>>143617971
Interesting, I never had that interpretation. To me it always seed that he was coasting through life, fitting himself into whatever role he was assigned, but never becoming comfortable with it. But at the same time he didn't have the courage or drive to take the risks needed to break out of that. He could never keep his promises to Aiko as a child and that kept him trapped for the rest of his early life; thinking about her and what could have been, even if it would have been impossible anyway.
I suppose Aiko's death redeemed Punpun in a way, since he was finally able to let go of her and embrace his other friends, who, despite their best efforts had never been able to replace Aiko.

>>143620193
>he was finally able to let go of her and embrace his other friends
I'm with you up until this part. The ending shows that this definitely isn't the case. He was basically trapped by his past and regret over what he'd failed to do, and in the end of it all he both failed to make Aiko happy and failed to save her life. That regret will consume him for the rest of his life. I don't think Punpun has the will or strength to move on from it.

>>143620496

Not him, but one of the last chapters showed how he eventually will forget aiko even how she looked like

>>143610003
>get to fuck, fagot
I nearly pissed myself at reading this. Thanks for bringing me laughter anon.

>>143620642
Not that anon, but I forgot about that and went back to check. I must have pushed it from my memory because now I remember that It was the other bit I cried at.
It still claws at my heart now and I haven't read punpun since it finished.
I think the intention for the ending is that he forgets about Aiko and moves on with his life. But I really don't know if Punpun would be able to do that, being the person that we know he is.

Catching autism from his Dad and Uncle

Did any character got a happy ending in Punpun?

>>143621074
Shuntarou "Harumin" Harumi, Punyama Papa and Setsuyuki Mimura didn't fall for the angsty self-pity.

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What the fuck was his problem?

>>143591007
I think you are mistaking Aiko for who Punpun thought Aiko was.

>>143602488
He didn't exactly have any good role models to learn from. People don't just magically "grow up", they learn how to be an adult from their parents and teachers.

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>>143602914
I sort of feel the opposite. I enjoyed Holograph, but it felt insanely obtuse, and I didn't really understand the overall narrative until I read it a second time.

The length is also a major factor, I think. One is a one-shot novel and the other is a pretty big multi-volume release.

>>143604553
Is the second VN worth reading? I've had a heard time getting into Narcissu because the translation is so shitty. I could swap to the allegedly better translation, but the second VN apparently doesn't have that.

>>143615828
They could have done it after, you know.

>>143621789
I don't think the distinction is as important as you make it out to be. we only ever see Aiko from Punpun's very warped perspective. Everything she could ever do or become was exonerated when he first fell in love with her at school. Aiko was Aiko and that's all there was to it; she represented everything he could want in life.
Perhaps you're right and Aiko was really just a simple, lonely girl, but we'll really never know, and it would never have changed a thing for Punpun.

Was the cult right?

>>143622410
The cult was a fucking ridiculous side plot that did nothing but waste pages.

>>143621478
>megane bitch has to change his diapers for the rest of his life

Justice feels good.

My memory's a little hazy, but what happened to Komatsu?

I remember him being there in the beginning and then I completely forgot he existed until the last few chapters where he was just there.

>>143622366
I agree with you 100%, I just think that Punpun's Aiko is pretty definitely not representative of the real Aiko. The person that he makes her out to be doesn't seem like a person who could exist in the world that the manga takes place in.

>>143622774
But wasn't that the reason Punpun was so entranced with her in the first place? He was surrounded by terrible shitty people and Aiko was the one person he knew who he'd never seen a bad side of, and we never really see it either. The entire tragedy of Aiko's life is that she was too pure for that world.

>>143591978
Kill yourself

>>143622575
It was the foil to punpun. Where punpun was purely being subjected to the world and simply reacting to it while having no influence on it, the cult was actively trying to change/save the world.

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>>143622846
Honestly cant tell if this is genuine or bait tbqh anon. :/

>>143622846
It's been awhile since I read it, but I recall Punpun's infatuation with her starting the instant he saw her face, and it escalated as he learned that she was also a weird kid who didn't fit in. Punpun's puppy love for Aiko heavily warped his image of her, and allowed him to justify and explain away her flaws.

Punpun wasn't surrounded by terrible shitty people, he was surrounded by normal people. He just never learned to accept that everyone has good and bad sides to them.

>>143623018
>Punpun wasn't surrounded by terrible shitty people, he was surrounded by normal people. He just never learned to accept that everyone has good and bad sides to them.
I dunno man. Sachi and Punpun's other friends from later on were more normal, but the authority figures in his childhood, particularly his parents and uncle, were pretty damn shitty. His uncle got his shit together later but not after being a terrible influence on Punpun's life.

While it could certainly be because of Punpun's own rose-tinted view as the protagonist, as the readers we never learn anything about Aiko that suggests she's anything less than the pure and innocent victim that Punpun sees her as.

>>143622846
His idea of who she was and what she represented was too pure and totally incompatible with the world. In the end Aiko suffered just like Punpun, and multiple times at his hand.

>>143623247
You are right that Punpun's parents/role models are mostly pretty bad influences. I was referring more to his general peer group.

And I'd say that Aiko (particularly as a child) has a pretty manipulative and petty nature . Not saying she is a terrible person or anything, but she is definitely not the pure paragon that Punpun thinks she is, and she is very much a product of her environment.

>>143615970
Sometimes I see anons trying to rape my loli body.